Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E130: Discover The SHOCKING Reason You Hate Your Job! w/Pat Lencioni w/Pat Lencioni

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E130: Discover The SHOCKING Reason You Hate Your Job! w/Pat Lencioni w/Pat Lencioni · The Lila Rose Show

0:00
There are 6 activities that are involved in any kind of work.
0:03
I don't care if you're launching a startup company, if you're
0:07
running a business, if you're building your family's home,
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you're running your household, you're planning a family
0:11
vacation. There are six kinds of
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activities that are always required and none of us are good
0:16
at all. Six.
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In fact, of those six, two of them are what we call our
0:21
working genius. Everybody has two that that
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feeds them, that gives them joy and energy.
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When we work in our area of genius, we can spend 12 hours a
0:29
day doing it and go home and feel like that was awesome, and
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then there's two on the other end that drain us of joy and
0:35
energy. Two or three hours of doing that
0:37
can make us exhausted. Hey everybody, welcome back to
0:45
the Lila Rose podcast. I'm so excited for today's
0:47
episode because I get to chat with a dear friend of mine,
0:50
someone I consider a mentor, who has made a huge difference in my
0:52
life and helped me in my mission and in my work in big ways.
0:56
His name is Patrick Lencioni and he's the founder of Table Group.
0:58
He's also the author of over a dozen books that have sold
1:01
millions and millions of copies. Pat and I discussed in
1:03
particular, the tool of the working genius and how using
1:06
working genius, we can better optimize ourselves both in our
1:09
workplace as well as in our relationships and our family
1:12
life to understand our talents and other people's gifts and
1:16
ensure that we are working in harmony together.
1:18
I think you're going to enjoy this episode and this
1:19
conversation with Patrick Lencioni.
1:21
I know that I did. Pat Lencioni, welcome to the
1:24
podcast. It's great to be here.
1:26
This is like I was just saying to you, this is this is not
1:29
work. This is fun talking to you and
1:31
and talking to your audience. This is a blast for me.
1:33
OK, well, I'm so delighted that you agreed to come on today.
1:37
You have been such a huge influence in my life when it
1:41
comes to my work, my vocational work.
1:43
You helped me with live action. Live action has grown so much
1:46
since you came alongside us several years ago and really
1:49
mentored me. You gave me a lot of the skills
1:51
and the courage to launch now, GTB Media, this show and so much
1:55
more. So I'm just very excited to
1:56
share your wisdom with our audience because you have so
1:59
much to teach many people about how to really build successful
2:03
careers in a way that is most healthy for their flourishing
2:06
and for the people they work with.
2:07
So thank you for that work and thank you for everything you've
2:09
done for me. Well, I'll never forget that day
2:12
that somebody on your staff called me and said, hey, I work
2:14
for Lila Rose, and she'd like to.
2:16
And I said, Lila Rose, she's my hero.
2:18
So I said whatever she wants me to do.
2:20
And when you tell Lila Rose whatever you want me to do, you
2:23
put us to work. And I love that.
2:25
Well, we did put you to work. You gave us a lot of your time
2:27
and I'm so grateful for that and super, super excited to jump in
2:31
today because you've written multiple books.
2:33
I think you've sold over 8 million books, which is crazy
2:37
now. And your tools that you've
2:39
developed to serve leaders and businesses have been, I think,
2:44
life changing for many, many people.
2:46
So I wanted to start with first the why.
2:49
What got you into building Table Group?
2:52
What got you into writing about organizational health?
2:54
Why you're passionate about it? You know, I think that the, the
2:58
why is, I mean, I, I hope it's been a vocation and a calling.
3:01
I'm, I, I, I, as I'm older, I want to do whatever God wants me
3:04
to do. And, and I think when I was a
3:08
young kid, I saw my dad go to work and come home and be
3:10
frustrated. And I thought, I don't know what
3:12
that is, but that doesn't seem right.
3:13
And then I got out of college and I got a job at a management
3:16
consulting firm. And I was like, people don't
3:18
seem to work very well together. And that's interesting to me.
3:21
And that's not what the firm did.
3:23
So I just started learning about that on my own and wanting to
3:26
make a difference in the work lives of people.
3:29
And so that's kind of how this came about.
3:32
I've always been a believer of Jesus and wanting to help people
3:36
and I thought that doing it through organizational health
3:39
was better than marketing and strategy and all that stuff.
3:41
So God just kind of kept opening doors for me.
3:43
And I wrote my first book thinking that I would take it to
3:46
Kinko's and give people copies of it.
3:48
But people bought it and a publisher liked it.
3:50
And now I'm 14 books in and consulting firm has grown.
3:55
And so I, I can't say I planned any of this.
3:58
It's all been very accidental, but it's been a blessing.
4:02
Awesome. What was one of your first big
4:05
moments about maybe discovering or inventing tools, frameworks
4:12
for understanding work that you've had?
4:16
What was one of those first ones?
4:17
You're like, wow, I just discovered this thing, or I
4:19
invented this thing that people didn't know about before.
4:22
That can be so transformative if people just knew this thing.
4:26
That's a great question and, and I have a moment, you know, I, I
4:29
know what the answer is. I was working at, at a software
4:32
company and I was like a junior executive.
4:35
I don't think at that point I reported to the CEO, it was a
4:37
fairly good sized company, but I, on the side, I was doing free
4:41
consulting to these other organizations because that's
4:43
kind of how I am. I'm like you, you know, we,
4:44
we're busy and all these things. And I started to notice a
4:47
pattern in these CEO's in the way they behaved.
4:51
And I, I was like, oh, wait a second, his problem is this and
4:55
her problem is this. And then that leads to this.
4:57
And, and I came up with these five leadership challenges,
5:01
problems, if you will. And I just started sharing it
5:04
with the people I was working with and they liked it.
5:06
And then like 6 months later, somebody came into my office and
5:10
started talking about this theory.
5:12
And I said, where did you hear that?
5:13
And they said, we heard it from you 6 months ago.
5:16
So they were repeating it. And then one of my free clients
5:20
said, you need to write a book about that theory.
5:22
And I said, really? And they go, yeah, if you don't
5:24
write it, somebody else is. And I thought, oh, maybe I will.
5:28
So it was I, I just came up with a theory in, in when I was
5:31
working and people were repeating it and using it.
5:34
And that's the day I thought, well, maybe there's something to
5:37
this. And that it took off from there.
5:41
What was the theory, Pat? It was the Five temptations of
5:45
ACEO. And it was like, I there was
5:47
this one guy that I was working for who really didn't care about
5:50
the results of the company, believe it or not.
5:52
He just wanted to be cool. He wanted to be, he wanted
5:55
status more than results. And I thought, OK, that's the
5:58
problem with CEOs. And then I thought, well, but
6:00
the previous CEO, he didn't care about status at all.
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He didn't like to hold people accountable.
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He wanted to be everybody's buddy.
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I said, oh, so it leads to that. And then this other guy that I'm
6:12
working with, he doesn't care about that.
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He just doesn't like to make a decision.
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He wants certainty over clarity. And so I just kind of unwound
6:18
this thing and then started sharing it with people.
6:22
And so it was the Five Temptations of ACEO, which was
6:25
my first book, which then led to the Five Dysfunctions of a Team
6:30
in a Different Application, which was my third book.
6:32
And that was the one that really took off.
6:34
Amazing. All right.
6:35
There's so much ground I want to cover.
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We've got limited time with you. So I want to start with
6:39
immediately the questions that I know people might be thinking to
6:42
ask who are listening. And I want to start with the
6:45
question of somebody who is trying to find a job where they
6:49
feel they're really using their gifts and growing their gifts.
6:53
It's also making them money that they can hopefully grow their
6:56
career in and how they can put those pieces together.
7:00
Because I think a lot of people look at college, they look at
7:03
entering the workforce and they kind of want to get in there.
7:05
They're somehow maybe they're struggling with what am I good
7:07
at? What do I want to do?
7:09
There's so many vocational questions when somebody is
7:11
starting out their career or maybe they're in their career
7:13
and they're unhappy with it. They feel like they're not
7:15
really suited to what they're doing.
7:17
What's your foundational advice for someone to help and to help
7:21
them understand what their talents are and how to place
7:23
those talents into the work world in a way that then they
7:26
can build a successful career? Yeah, I remember years ago, I
7:31
think there was a book or an article called Do What You Love
7:33
and the money Will follow. And I and, and I really believe
7:36
that. And, and I remember I did a book
7:38
called What Color is Your Parachute?
7:40
And I met the guy who wrote it. I knew his son.
7:42
Years later. My mom gave that to me in high
7:44
school. And I am a fundamental believer
7:46
that God gives us gifts and we're meant to use them.
7:50
And he doesn't give us all, every gift.
7:53
And if we're trying to do work in an area that we're not gifted
7:56
in, just because people say that's the cool job to have or
8:00
we think we can make a lot of money, we're going to be
8:02
miserable and, and, and not successful.
8:05
So when I got out of college, Lila, I came from a pretty poor
8:09
family and, and not college educated.
8:11
And I worked very hard and I got a job interview with the number
8:15
one place to work in America that year.
8:18
And it was a management consulting firm.
8:20
And so I interviewed there because they paid well and it
8:22
was supposed to be prestigious and everybody else wanted to
8:25
work there. So I interviewed and I got a job
8:27
offer and I took the job. Well, as it turns out, 40 years
8:32
later, based on some work I've done recently, I realized it was
8:36
exactly the wrong job for me. And I spent two years there,
8:40
which is the longest decade of my career.
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And I left there feeling like I was actually stupid and lazy and
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I was neither of those things. But it scarred me.
8:52
And had I known how to discover what my gifts were and realized
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they weren't going to be put to use there, I would have said,
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hey, this might be the best job in the world for some people,
9:02
but it's the worst job for me. But so many of us pick our
9:05
careers or our jobs or our next promotion based on what the
9:09
world is telling us. But what we have to pay
9:11
attention to is what did God give me?
9:13
And what am I meant to do? Just yesterday I was, we were
9:17
talking about like I met a guy recently and he said, hey, I
9:20
love what I do, but we were talking about promoting him and
9:23
he goes, I don't want to be the leader.
9:25
I like to support leaders and I like to help them.
9:28
And yet so many times you think, well, I guess my next job should
9:31
be to be the leader or the manager.
9:32
And it's like, that's not what everybody's called to do.
9:35
So my advice to people would be know yourself and what God gave
9:40
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order. OK, so so many questions from
11:29
what you just said. Excellent stuff.
11:31
Let's start with this question immediately.
11:33
You've mentioned your own story about being burnt out in this
11:36
job that wasn't suited to you. You went on and eventually found
11:39
a table group and now you're extremely successful.
11:41
People might be listening and say, well, that works for Pat.
11:43
He's clearly extremely talented and driven and he's built this
11:47
amazing thing. I am going to, you know, make
11:50
good with my current job because I can't imagine something
11:53
necessarily better that would actually pay me.
11:55
And so, you know, I'm not like Pat.
11:57
I'm not that kind of talent. You know, I have these other
11:59
interests and hobbies, but you know, I'm going to kind of slug
12:01
it, slug it through because I need to support my family or I
12:04
need a job or whatever. What would you say to that
12:05
person? Well, I would say, first of all,
12:09
I'm, I, I totally understand the, the requirements of paying
12:11
the bills and doing all those things.
12:13
So I, I don't want to be Pollyannaish and say, quit your
12:16
job and go do some whatever right away because we all have
12:18
to have responsibility. And I certainly didn't start out
12:21
by going for just the one thing I liked.
12:23
We have to do things we don't like sometimes.
12:27
Excuse me, but here's what I would say.
12:30
Find out. Everybody is super talented, but
12:34
not in every way. And I am literally terrible at
12:38
some really important things that people would think you have
12:41
to be good at to be successful. And knowing what those things
12:45
are is wonderful because then I can surround myself with people
12:48
who are great at those things and know that together we see.
12:53
God designed us to need one another.
12:55
And if I surround myself by people that have the same gifts
12:58
I do, we're going to be just as blind to our pit, to our blind
13:01
spots as as anybody. So, so know who you are and then
13:07
find the role. And it's not about even finding
13:10
the right industry, Lila. It's about in any given company,
13:14
you can find a role that taps into the strengths God gave you.
13:18
Here's a great story. So we did this thing called the
13:20
six types of working genius, which I think we'll probably
13:22
talk about. I had a guy and I think he was
13:25
working at a big church, but I'm not sure.
13:27
But anyway, he had a performance review with his boss and his
13:31
boss's boss, and it was going to go really badly because he had
13:33
not been doing well and he knew that.
13:36
So he was dreading his performance review and he took
13:38
the working genius assessment and, and, and saw the profile of
13:41
what his God-given talents were and what they weren't.
13:45
And so before the performance review, he went and handed the
13:47
to his boss and said, can you look at this real quick before
13:50
we get started? And the guy looked at it and
13:51
said, well, no wonder you've been doing terrible.
13:53
This, this job is totally wrong for you.
13:56
And then him and his boss said, wait a second, we have that
13:59
other job, you'd be perfect for that in the same organization,
14:03
same industry, different role. He goes, I got promoted instead
14:09
of fired because they got to see who I was and realized there
14:14
were other things I could do there.
14:16
And so many people are miserable in their jobs and they don't
14:20
exactly know why. And they're not even allowing
14:24
their manager or the company where they work to properly
14:26
utilize them. So that's the message I want to
14:29
have to you because you have a lot of young people that are
14:31
listening to this early in their career or just starting out or
14:34
in their first or second job and they think, do I have to start
14:38
over if this isn't working for me?
14:40
And the answer is no, there's probably a job within the
14:43
organization you work in or somebody else that needs you.
14:47
And as long as you know what you're great at, you can help
14:50
people put you to work and have joy and fulfillment and energy
14:56
that serves you and your family. So I love helping people figure
14:59
that out. That's such a good point because
15:02
if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, there are all
15:05
kinds of industries, you know, whether it's like media or
15:07
finance or small business or teaching or whatever.
15:11
And it sounds like what you're saying is largely speaking
15:14
within many different kinds of organizations in many different
15:16
industries. It's less about the big end game
15:19
and product of the of the organization.
15:21
You want excellence, you want to serve people, but it's more
15:23
about what are you doing in the day-to-day?
15:25
What is the actual because, you know, I think we'd get stars in
15:28
our eyes. We think about I'd love to be,
15:29
you know, a filmmaker. I'd love to do this or that.
15:31
And yeah, maybe maybe you would love to do that.
15:33
But it's really thinking about what do I do in the day-to-day
15:35
to achieve this thing that looks attractive to me and am I suited
15:39
and I really is about my aptitude?
15:41
Is that what I actually would enjoy doing in that day-to-day,
15:44
that lifestyle, you could say of the job.
15:47
So I'd love to now just break right into what is this know
15:51
thyself, know myself tool that you have recently developed.
15:55
I've used used it in Full disclosure, I have all my team
15:58
at Live Action use it. I'm using it over at GTB Media.
16:01
I know so many people who are using it and just love it.
16:04
It's so eye opening. Tell us about how one can start
16:08
the process of really knowing themselves so that they can best
16:11
find the job for them and the career for them.
16:15
Great. What I want to say first is that
16:16
I love all these tools. You know, there's, there's Myers
16:19
Briggs and there's Disk and a whole bunch of others.
16:21
And so I'm a junkie for all of them and we've used them.
16:23
But this one is different because like you said, I love
16:25
the way you say it's about the work you do every day.
16:29
And it takes 12 minutes to fill this out and you read the report
16:32
and you're like, oh, no wonder Thursdays were miserable for me
16:35
because I have to do all these things that I'm terrible at.
16:37
And no wonder I look forward to those projects and maybe I can
16:41
go about my job in a way that I get to do more of the things
16:44
that I'm really that give me joy and energy and less of the
16:47
others. But I also want to say this,
16:48
Lila, you were involved in developing this tool because you
16:52
your your personality type in in working genius is the same as my
16:56
wife and my best friend, Chris Stefanik, who you know, and and
17:01
we actually had your name on the board when we were figuring this
17:04
out. So we were like, well, Lila and
17:07
Chris and Laura are Wis. Let's figure out what do we call
17:10
that and what do we understand? So you were there from the very
17:13
beginning because we were working with you and we know
17:15
you. So let me.
17:16
Tell like what do we do with this problematic?
17:18
What do we do with this problematic person of Lila with
17:21
their WR crazy WI No, I I when I when you told me about the tool
17:25
the first time, I was like, this is so it was so it's so
17:28
refreshing to have a categorization that resonates
17:31
that then gives you guidance for what to do like that's
17:34
actionable. So anyways, excited for you to
17:35
get get into it. Yeah, so you were part of that.
17:38
OK. And it's so fun that your name
17:40
comes up with my wife and I'll be in an argument with her and I
17:43
go, I love you Laura, I love Chris, I love Lila too.
17:46
But you're not good at everything, so it's great.
17:50
So, so the six types of working genius, basically it comes down
17:53
to this. There are 6 activities that are
17:56
involved in any kind of work. I don't care if you're launching
17:59
a startup company, if you're running a business, if you're
18:03
building your family's home, you're running your household,
18:06
you're planning a family vacation.
18:07
There are six kinds of activities that are always
18:10
required, OK? And none of us are good at all
18:13
six. In fact, of those six, two of
18:18
them are what we call our working genius.
18:20
Everybody has two that, that that feeds them, that gives them
18:23
joy and energy. When we work in our area of
18:26
genius, we can spend 12 hours a day doing it and go home and
18:29
feel like that was awesome. And then there's two on the
18:34
other end that drain us of joy and energy.
18:38
Two or three hours of doing that can make us exhausted, you know,
18:42
And then there's two in the middle, which are which we can
18:44
do. They don't really feed us, but
18:46
they don't crush us either. And so every person needs to
18:50
know like which 2 are my geniuses, which I should lean
18:53
toward, which 2 are my frustrations, which I should
18:56
just grit my teeth when I have to do it, try not to do it too
18:59
often, but when I have to, I just need to steel myself for
19:02
it. And then the two in the middle,
19:03
you can kind of leverage and, and, and figure out your way.
19:06
So here's what the six geniuses are.
19:09
The first one. You have the first two.
19:11
I love this. The 1st 2 are at the highest
19:14
altitude. They're like up at 50,000 feet.
19:16
And it's wonder is the first one, the genius of wonder.
19:20
These are people that ask the big questions, that ponder
19:24
things, that say, why is why should it be that way?
19:28
I wonder if there's a better way to do this.
19:30
Why does the world work this way?
19:32
Or why does our organization work this way?
19:34
Or I wonder what our customers really think.
19:37
Wonder is where every new thing starts.
19:41
Somebody asks the question. A woman who worked for me, Amy,
19:45
was a wonderer. And she's the one who said to me
19:48
one day, why do you get grumpy at work sometimes?
19:50
And that's what led us to figure out this model.
19:53
So everything starts with somebody saying wonder.
19:56
But as you know, Lila, when you're young, your teachers
19:59
don't say, oh, I'm so glad you're asking these big
20:01
questions. They're like, just do the
20:03
assignment, follow directions. And Wanderers are are in their
20:08
head thinking about these big things.
20:10
And it's beautiful. And they're often criticized for
20:13
doing it when they're young. OK, the next genius, which is
20:17
your other genius, is called invention.
20:20
So when a wanderer asks the question.
20:23
The person with invention comes up with the solution and they
20:26
love to come up with new ideas out of nothing, out of thin air.
20:30
They're like, oh, a blank white board and a pen is like a joy to
20:36
them. So these first two wonder and
20:40
invention is what's called ideation.
20:44
Well, Lila, you are the physical embodiment of ideation.
20:48
You are constantly like, shouldn't there be a better way
20:51
to do that? Oh, I have an idea.
20:53
Oh, there's another thing. I have another idea and you can
20:56
just do that. I'm sure your husband will say
20:57
you're, you do it all the time. You wake up in the morning ready
21:01
to ideate and that's beautiful. That's beautiful.
21:05
So those are the 1st 2, which are yours and my wife.
21:09
But the next one is called discernment.
21:13
And that now we're now we're getting out of the clouds a
21:15
little lower and getting a little closer to the ground, not
21:17
too close. People with the gift, the genius
21:20
of discernment, can they have this intuition and instinct and
21:25
gut feel and pattern recognition where somebody brings them an
21:28
idea and they're the ones that look at it and go, oh, yeah,
21:31
that's going to be a huge one or, oh, no, no, I have a feeling
21:34
that there's some problems or you need to tweak a few things
21:36
here. And, and it's wonderful to watch
21:39
ideation interact with discernment because they'll take
21:42
your idea and put it back to you and go, you need to work further
21:44
on these things. I have a discerner who edits my
21:47
books, and I'll send her a chapter at night and the next
21:51
morning she'll read it and go, this character makes no sense or
21:54
oh, I really like what you did here.
21:55
And I know that she's right. So discernment is the ability to
22:00
respond to things and see them and evaluate them using
22:05
instincts, not data, not expertise, but just I have a
22:09
woman in my office, you know, Tracy, who just oozes
22:12
discernment. She's the editor of my books.
22:14
And you know what she said? And this is great.
22:16
When she was a little girl, her friends were always asking her,
22:20
what do you think? Ask Tracy, Should we do that?
22:24
Ask Tracy? And Tracy always had this sense
22:27
of like, that would not be a good idea.
22:29
Or that would be when Laura and I are at home, Lila, she can
22:33
say, do you think we should refinance the house?
22:34
Where should we go on vacation this year?
22:36
How should we handle this thing in our lives?
22:38
And she'll go, why don't you ask Tracy?
22:40
Because Tracy has this ability to look at something and go, I
22:45
think that's probably the best idea.
22:48
And she's usually right. So she evaluates things really
22:51
well. WI and D happened pretty high up
22:54
there. But once you've discerned
22:56
something, Lila, then somebody has to galvanized it.
23:01
They have to sell it. They have to get people excited.
23:03
They have to pitch the idea and not just once, because you and I
23:07
like to do it once, but they have to everyday go, I'm going
23:10
to get in front of you and I don't want to do that everyday.
23:14
I want to move on to the next big thing.
23:17
And so that's how this whole tool came about is because every
23:19
day I'd come to work and people would go galvanized us and I'd
23:22
be like, I don't want to, I want to move on to the next thing.
23:25
And they go, no, galvanized us on what we need to do again
23:26
today. And that's when I found Cody and
23:29
I thought, you know, Cody, he's on your board.
23:31
And and I said, Cody, you have the genius of galvanizing.
23:34
You're going to be my chief galvanizing officer.
23:36
And he's like, well, I haven't been here that long.
23:37
I'm not very old. I'm like, I don't care.
23:39
It's a gift. God made you a galvanizer.
23:42
And he was like, are you going to let me use it?
23:44
And I'm like, yes, and I'm going to do it less.
23:48
And so galvanizing is the energy people get from just getting in
23:53
front of people and saying, come on, you guys, let's do it.
23:55
And they remind people and they they get people moving.
23:59
So then those two middle ones, the D and the G, that's called
24:02
activation. The last two Lila are
24:06
implementation. These are you are my least.
24:12
This is where like peace out. Can someone else implement,
24:15
please? Yeah, no, it's so.
24:17
But these people are gold. We these are like and and you
24:20
know, people listening well, why it's not in, you know, I don't
24:22
have the big idea. It's like, no, you are you are
24:24
necessary for any idea to ever come into existence.
24:26
So I've been very excited about these last two.
24:29
Exactly. And I celebrate them.
24:31
I I tell them I suck at that and I love that.
24:35
You're great at it and you are as important as I am.
24:38
No doubt. I was telling somebody that
24:39
today. It's like, just because I came
24:41
up with the idea doesn't mean that it's all mine.
24:43
We tend to over prescribe genius to inventors because it's a
24:49
different kind of skill, but the genius, the next genius of
24:52
enablement is beautiful. Now enablement sounds bad
24:56
because people are like, don't enable people if they have a
24:58
drinking problem, you know, but enabling others to get things
25:02
going. These are the people that when
25:04
you when you, when we go to them, Lila and go, we have this
25:06
idea. It's been, it's been discerned.
25:09
We think we should do it. And when somebody gets in front
25:11
of them and says, let's do it, they're the ones that go, I'll
25:14
do it. I'm in.
25:15
Tell me what you want me to do. And they get joy and energy out
25:18
of answering the call. They literally get energized and
25:23
get excited when somebody says I need your help.
25:27
Whereas, and I hate to say this, Lila, because I'm a follower of
25:30
Jesus, but when my wife says, hey, I need your help, my first
25:34
thing is, Oh no, what do you need?
25:36
And if it's falls in my areas of genius, I'm very excited.
25:39
But if she just says I just need you to do what I ask you to do,
25:41
I'm like, oh, no. And there's other people that
25:44
are like, hey, I'll do whatever you need me to do.
25:46
They are the glue of organizations.
25:48
They are the most valuable team players and most of them don't
25:52
think they're a genius, they think they're just nice.
25:55
It's a genius to be able to say I got your back, I'll do
25:59
whatever you need me to do. It's such a valuable thing and
26:03
organizations that don't have enablement rarely get things off
26:06
the ground. The last genius is called
26:10
tenacity because it's one thing to say I will help.
26:13
Then there's those people in the world who love to finish things.
26:18
The last 10%, they don't feel good unless it's done.
26:22
They love to hit the target, meet the goal, nail thing and
26:25
keep going until it's definitely finished.
26:27
And that's when they feel good. Where you and I are like, hey, I
26:32
love the first 15%. So.
26:36
So if you don't have people with all of these geniuses in a
26:40
company, on a team, even in a family, it can be a challenge.
26:44
It's amazing how you'll start to hit the same problems again and
26:47
again or if you're asking somebody everyday to do
26:51
something that's not one of their geniuses, and definitely
26:54
if it's one of their frustrations, you're going to
26:57
burn them out. A lot of people, and Cody loves
26:59
to say this, burnout isn't about working too hard.
27:03
Burnout is about doing the kind of work that drains you of
27:06
energy. So when I'm burnt out at work
27:09
and people go, you should take more time off.
27:12
What I say this now, actually, I should just go do I should just
27:15
do the things I love doing that'll re energize me because
27:19
going home and staring at a wall isn't going to re energize me.
27:23
Oh, look at that. It's crazy.
27:26
But doing the things I love is what's going to re energize me.
27:30
So anyway. Look at how.
27:32
Excited I was to do my work on fireworks going off in the
27:34
background. No, it's genius.
27:36
I have to. Figure out how to deactivate
27:38
that. Yeah, the genius had to go off
27:40
because it was just a, you know, the fireworks had to go off
27:42
because it was genius. OK, I've got a lot of questions
27:44
here to dial more into this. So first question, do you think
27:49
that there are a number of industries, maybe like banking
27:53
or finance as an example, that is more tailored to one type of
27:57
genius versus another? I know you said in any given
27:59
organization you do need all, and I believe that to be true.
28:02
But you know, certain kind of geniuses tend towards certain
28:05
professions generally speaking. Have you just?
28:07
Have you found that? Yes, to a certain extent, but I
28:09
love your caveat. And that is every, every
28:12
business needs everything. But but like, but a pencil
28:17
factory that's making #2 pencils that haven't changed in the last
28:21
100 years is going to have a little bit less, no, a lot less
28:24
wonder and invention. OK.
28:27
Now what they might wonder and invent around is like, is there
28:29
a better way to do this? Is there a quicker way we can
28:31
serve them and do all that? But yes, there are certain
28:34
industries, a think tank, you know, or an organization like
28:38
yours is going to skew toward wonder and invention and
28:41
discernment because like we're coming up with new ideas and we
28:44
want to convey those to people. We got to evaluate.
28:46
Is that what they need to hear? So yes, a think tank is going to
28:49
skew more toward the upper part with like the when I say upper,
28:52
I mean like the head in the clouds a little bit more and a
28:56
factory that's making widgets, it's going to be a lot more
28:58
toward ENT. But what's interesting is like,
29:01
take a company like like Nike, we had, we talked to a guy at
29:05
Nike in innovation, right when we came out with working genius
29:09
and he said they have people in WNI that design new products.
29:12
You know, oh, we'll put gel in this thing and then we'll put a
29:14
little swoosh on it. And, and then, and then they
29:18
would take it and send it over to the throw it over the wall
29:21
and give it to people in implementation, like in
29:23
manufacturing or sales. And they would be like, why do
29:27
they keep sending us these crappy products?
29:29
And the people in the product development were like, why can't
29:31
they sell these awesome products?
29:33
And they didn't have anybody in the middle discerning and
29:36
galvanizing. And they said we don't have
29:39
anybody in the activation stage. So every business needs all of
29:43
it. But yeah, I would think in
29:45
banking and, and, you know, in certain businesses, there's a
29:50
lot of execution and that that's going to skew a little bit more
29:55
toward the, the, the, the GET part.
29:59
But but it's really important to understand, you know, here's a
30:01
great story. When I first came out with
30:03
working genius, I had a pastor call and he said, oh, Pat, I
30:06
feel like I I just took the working genius and for 20 years
30:09
I felt like a fraud as a pastor. I said, why?
30:11
And he goes, I can't write a homily or a sermon to save my
30:14
life. My friends can go for a walk in
30:16
the woods and come up with a three-part series and I will sit
30:19
and stare at a wall for two days and come up with nothing.
30:22
And I looked at his working genius and I said, do you like
30:24
to counsel people? And he goes, Oh, yeah, how about
30:27
when people have grief or problems in their family?
30:28
Oh, I can spend all day with them and give them advice and
30:31
help them. I said, yeah, that's you're,
30:32
you're a pastoral pastor. You're not so much of A you, you
30:36
don't lean toward the coming up with a new idea and the homily.
30:40
And I said, you know, those people that come up, the
30:42
homilies aren't good at what you do.
30:44
And everybody thinks they're supposed to be good at all of it
30:47
and nobody's good at all of it. And and that's where the
30:51
imposter syndrome comes in. Everybody thinks that, oh, I'm
30:54
supposed to, I'm also supposed to be good at finishing things.
30:57
Now, I will say this to you, Lila, this is personal.
31:00
People get a little personal glimpse into Lila Rose here.
31:03
And you and I have some things in common.
31:06
We have actually in our lives, probably because of wounds and,
31:10
and, and childhood experiences, gotten pretty damn good at, at
31:13
getting things done, but we don't like it.
31:18
And like you probably got great grades in school.
31:21
So did I because we felt like I have to achieve, I have to prove
31:25
that I'm worth it. I've got to do this.
31:26
And so I actually learned how to push through and grind, but it
31:31
was always a grind and the liberation of realizing I don't
31:35
have to be a finisher to be valuable.
31:40
And I can partner with people who love that and celebrate that
31:44
they're good at something that I don't enjoy.
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sevenweekscoffee.com. Such a good point.
33:13
I actually was meditating on this recently in just the last
33:15
year that the when I'm in that grind state being the tenacity,
33:20
right? Or even being having to be the
33:22
galvanizer or the enablement to get the thing finished right.
33:25
And I'm doing that a lot of that.
33:27
Obviously you feel burnt out. It's very tough.
33:29
But also the other disadvantage is that you're not investing
33:33
your space, your your time into you where your God-given
33:36
aptitude is and your talent is. So it's not just that you feel
33:39
burnt out, it's that the world's not getting and you're not being
33:43
able to serve in the way that you're most maximized in.
33:45
And that's the other tragedy of people not being in there
33:48
working genius. You're not stewarding the gift
33:52
God gave you by the way, you're a you're a mother obviously too.
33:56
By the way, I'm I'm, I think children are good.
33:58
I'm very pro child. I should just say that I know
34:01
what you. Do and that's funny, we have.
34:02
In common, but but so my wife, who's your personality type too?
34:06
So I wrote this book two years ago, 2 1/2 years ago it came out
34:09
the the tool came out four years ago and she finished it and she
34:14
put it down and she said, I said, what do you think?
34:16
We're on an airplane And she goes, I loved it and I'm pissed
34:20
and I said why? And she goes because I realized
34:23
I've been feeling bad for 25 years because so much of what
34:28
she was doing as a mom were not in her genius.
34:31
Wow. And what's, what's amazing Lila
34:34
is just so people don't think I'm a cretin. 20 years ago, 15
34:38
years ago, 10 years ago. We've I always said to her,
34:41
let's outsource some of the stuff that you don't like to do
34:44
because she's not an E&AT, which means whatever my kids need and
34:48
then I'll do it. And she was doing it and she was
34:50
driving carpool and doing laundry and it was crushing her.
34:52
Whereas other people, she had friends who were like, oh, I
34:55
love this. I organize everything.
34:56
I get things done. And she was feel like, what's
34:58
wrong with me? And now that she knows what her
35:01
working geniuses are, she could have outsourced or or
35:05
acknowledged that. And I would encourage her, but
35:07
she thought, but I would be a failure because look at these
35:09
other mothers who thrive doing all this stuff.
35:13
And now she's like, now I realize I don't have that genius
35:16
and I don't need to feel guilty about that.
35:20
And for? Years she felt guilty.
35:24
It's so good. That's why I I don't like doing
35:26
my completing my laundry. I like starting the load.
35:30
But then it's exactly, but I mean as half of is a joke, but
35:34
half serious, you know, it, It makes me wonder because as I
35:36
look at this system of this framework that you've developed,
35:40
it makes me wonder, you know, I believe God is such
35:42
intentionality with every soul he creates, with every person on
35:46
the planet, right? So do you think, you know, is it
35:49
maybe too much to say that when God creates whatever population
35:53
we have on the planet earth right now, at this day and age,
35:55
at this time, this era and this time in history, that if we
35:59
figure it out as human beings in our own formation, our own
36:01
self-awareness and partner with other people, we can create some
36:04
really fantastic, mutually serving and ultimately, you
36:09
know, mission oriented systems, not just in our businesses, but
36:13
in our communities, in our family structures, you know, in
36:16
our parishes, in, in all parts of life.
36:19
Absolutely. And that's why when you think
36:21
about like an abortion, it's like I, I was just thinking
36:24
about this today. I was listening to the Bible in
36:25
a year and it was the Old Testament and God was upset
36:28
because these people were drifting away from him.
36:30
And like they talked about a king, like Israeli king who, and
36:34
they were, they were sat he sacrificed his child.
36:36
They said like they were doing sacrifices.
36:38
And I and I remember and I was in my car and I was like, oh,
36:41
sacrifice. And I thought, Oh crap, that's
36:43
what people do now. And I thought every time a child
36:49
is aborted that that DNA, that working genius, that Myers
36:53
Briggs type, that person, that soul, there's no one like it.
36:57
And I know it seems very theoretical and heady to say
37:00
this, but when a person is destroyed, we're depriving the
37:04
world of the gifts that God wanted to give the world through
37:09
them. And that's very real.
37:13
And so, yeah, we need each other and we need everyone.
37:16
And that's the the sadness of drug addiction and homelessness
37:19
and all these things is those are children of God who have
37:22
something to offer. And that's why one of the most
37:25
dignifying things you can give somebody is like a a purpose or
37:28
a job. So they realize, Oh yeah, I have
37:31
a place here. And so anyway, drifted.
37:35
Into the. Pro-life ministry, but it's all
37:37
real. It's so true.
37:39
OK, some practical applications of this framework for people
37:42
listening. OK, so let's start with, well, I
37:45
want to start, I had this question earlier, Type A people.
37:47
So if someone's listening to like, OK, I've always thought of
37:49
myself as type A or maybe if we talk temperaments, they say I'm
37:52
more of a, I'm more of a choleric.
37:54
I had that streak in me or I have an aspect of my melancholic
37:57
that's really type A. And so how any thoughts on
38:01
taking other frameworks that we maybe have used historically
38:03
more traditionally like the type A personality or the choleric
38:07
personality, you know, the commander personality and using
38:11
that, you know, putting that running that through the working
38:13
genius framework. Absolutely.
38:16
In fact, I'm one of the things I'm working on right now and my
38:18
wife Laura is working on it too, because we're just about to be
38:21
empty nesters. My youngest Delilah is going
38:22
away to College in five weeks. And so Laura's like, OK, I'm
38:25
going to finally work on this is like we use the Myers Briggs a
38:28
lot here. And, and and the choleric and
38:29
the, and the sanguine and all those things are like a
38:32
temperament analysis, the Catholic version of Christian
38:34
version, but it's, it's very similar to that understanding
38:37
both of them is very powerful, but they're different.
38:40
So Myers Briggs for instruments or temperaments, as you were
38:43
saying, that's more of the noun, that's who, that's our
38:46
preferences for living, our personality type.
38:49
That's the noun of who we are. The working genius is what we
38:54
like to do. And So what we found is like, so
38:57
you and I are both ENF. PS in the Myers Briggs, we have
39:01
different working geniuses. I met a guy recently who is a
39:04
similar personality to ours and he's an ET, which he likes
39:08
implementation. I was like, how can you like
39:10
implementation? He goes, oh, listen, I'm an
39:12
idealist. So I like to work at churches
39:14
and nonprofits, but I like to get crap done.
39:18
And so they're different and, and who you are and what you
39:24
like to do are different things. One's a verb and one's a noun.
39:28
So I love when people combine other other things to understand
39:33
fully who somebody is. The other thing we have to
39:36
understand is what our wounds are.
39:39
Because and when you said type AI thought, gosh, what really is
39:43
type A Is it? And you can be a type A with any
39:47
working genius, but you're going to go about it differently.
39:50
But one of the I'm working on a book right now about wounds
39:54
because what I found is all the leaders I work with and all the
39:57
people I meet. If you don't understand the
39:59
impact of the their wounds on who they are, it's really easy
40:03
to misunderstand them as a person.
40:06
And so many of us, Lila, especially successful people,
40:11
their wounds, they kind of start to see them as superpowers
40:14
because they've made it work for them in their life.
40:18
And as they get older, they start to realize this is
40:21
crushing me. But I'm.
40:22
I'm being rewarded in my company or in the market or in life by
40:25
doing it, but it's not actually keeping me, giving me peace and
40:30
happiness. And so, so I say learn about the
40:33
choleric and the Myers Briggs and your temperament.
40:36
Learn about your working genius and then ask yourself, am I
40:40
actually acting and who I want to be or am I doing things
40:44
because I feel like I have to because of things that happened
40:46
in my life? So that's a, that's a very long
40:49
answer to a quick question, but that's one of the things I would
40:52
encourage people to do. It's very, it's actually very
40:55
powerful. There's so much there.
40:56
How would someone, first of all, how would someone know that they
40:58
have wounds and how would they discover what those wounds are
41:02
in order to hopefully heal and pursue the the maybe the
41:08
lifestyle or the jobs that are more in line with their
41:10
God-given talents? So I I'm so glad you asked.
41:14
That it's a big topic, I know. Yeah, but I love the fact that
41:18
an issue comes out there and you don't go like, oh, that'll just
41:20
float away. OK, so how do we do that?
41:22
I love that. And.
41:23
And Bob shoots. You know Doctor Bob shoots.
41:26
You know who he is, right? Yeah, we had him on the show
41:29
last summer, actually. I thought so I that's why I said
41:32
that he his book Be Healed is really good.
41:37
It's wonderful. It's a faith-based look at
41:39
healing, but it's also psychologically because they go
41:42
together, of course, faith and reason.
41:43
And he actually has like a list of the seven wounds and the
41:47
things that, the things we say to ourselves when we have those
41:50
wounds and the, and the decisions and the vows we make.
41:53
And you can go through that and go, oh, like I looked at the
41:57
list and I said, Oh yeah, I had that one.
41:59
Oh, I say that all the time. Oh, I did that.
42:02
Yeah, these are my 3 wounds. And there's there's a list of
42:04
seven and it really explains a lot because like, I don't know
42:09
why I worked so hard in college and high school.
42:11
My personality, Lily, you and I should never have gone to every
42:15
class and and gotten straight A's because we should have been
42:18
the kind of people that said, I'm not interested in that.
42:20
I don't know if that class really matters.
42:22
I'm going to follow my heart and my passion.
42:25
But we were like. That was college for me.
42:27
That was college for me, Pat. Finally I was enough healed, not
42:31
not fully here, but it was a more of a whatever self
42:34
discovery and yeah, let's just say I didn't go to class much,
42:36
but in high school I did go to every class and I majorly burnt
42:39
out. Right.
42:41
Well, I kept doing it in college too, totally against the grain.
42:45
And I look back and I go, why would I have done something so
42:49
antithetical to my personality? OK, people listening, by the
42:52
way, I just have to stop us for a minute because we were like,
42:55
what are these guys talking about?
42:56
You're not supposed to. It's better to not go to class
42:59
when you're in high school. That's more being more true to
43:01
your personality. I'm, I guarantee you someone's
43:03
thinking that right now as they're listening.
43:04
Are you saying some people shouldn't go to class in high
43:06
school? Well, no, what I what what
43:09
happened with me is not everybody like I have a son
43:13
who's just graduating high school and I know what his
43:16
working genius and his Myers Briggs are.
43:17
He is not geared to be a grinded out and and thankfully he did
43:23
pretty well in school, but I knew not to over over get on top
43:28
of him because he does not have a very structured and what we
43:33
tend to do with our kids as we go.
43:34
They're not structured. So I'm going to ride them hard
43:36
so that they're going to feel like there's something wrong
43:38
with them. Well, he is meant to explore
43:40
different things, take different classes and figure things out.
43:43
And if he gets AB plus in a class that he likes, that's
43:46
better than getting an A+ in a class he doesn't and crushing
43:49
himself. So what I'm saying is I should
43:51
have blown off a few assignments that I didn't need to do.
43:55
I should have calculated the thing and said I don't need to
43:56
do that to do well in this class.
43:58
But I did everything every teacher and every coach and
44:01
every parent wanted me to do because I felt like that was my
44:04
way to justify my, my, myself. And so when you get to college,
44:09
no, there's classes that are like, I love that my kids now I
44:12
have a son in college and he's like, yeah, I never go to that
44:14
class. It's stupid.
44:15
It's not on the test. It's a waste of time.
44:17
Good for you for figuring that out on your own, so no.
44:21
But if you're in high school, you're going to get in trouble
44:23
if you don't go to class. So do that.
44:25
Well, maybe you're it's a it's a bit of a case for homeschooling
44:29
what you just said, but I digress, that's another topic.
44:32
If I had to do all over again, I would have done that.
44:34
You know, there's a lot there. OK, so more practical
44:38
application. So if someone's listening and
44:40
they are maybe they already have a job and they, you know, maybe
44:44
they got an English degree and they were applying to work at
44:48
some not-for-profit and some sort of like entry level type
44:50
position. How does someone in their work,
44:54
first of all, once maybe they take your online test, they
44:57
discover they're working genius. They're like this is working.
44:59
This is not how do they then communicate that or, you know,
45:03
maybe negotiates a strong word, but maybe negotiate quite
45:07
frankly, or, or at least find a way to work to their strengths,
45:11
their genius. But again, they have a boss,
45:13
they have a job description. They're not the top of the food
45:16
chain, so they don't get to call the shots.
45:17
What? What advice would you give them?
45:20
What the beauty of this is, it's so interesting and curiosity
45:23
inducing. I would say just share it and
45:26
just say hey, and and if your boss is not a total cretin or an
45:29
or or an just terrible, just say hey, here's a one page
45:33
description or a very short and of of who I am and they're going
45:38
to go, Wow, where'd you get this is really interesting.
45:40
Oh my gosh, Oh, wow, I've been managing you wrong.
45:44
Or there's other things that you could do or this explains a lot
45:48
and, and it even gives them vocabulary to go, Oh, so the
45:52
tenacity thing, when I give you those things to do, you're going
45:55
to have to find a way to be it. It just allows you to have
45:58
handles around that. You don't have to negotiate
46:01
because most decent places are like, I want to use my people.
46:05
And your boss is going to go, Oh, I got to find out what I am.
46:08
Because when they're managing you, they want to know that too.
46:11
So I would say the practical thing to do is take this thing,
46:15
show it to your team and to your and to your manager and you are
46:19
going to be shocked at how they inevitably will kind of what I
46:25
would call reorganize the work around what people love and what
46:29
they don't love. And it's it doesn't Even so, I
46:32
worked with a with a big technology company, multi
46:35
billion dollar technology company, and they, they hadn't
46:38
come up with a new product in years and they were frustrated.
46:41
They never gotten recognized for it.
46:43
They did the working genius and they realized nobody on their
46:46
team had wonder or invention, which is ideation, except one
46:51
guy had invention as a genius. Everybody else had it very low.
46:55
And he was the lawyer. He was the company lawyer.
46:59
You know what they did? Within like 1/2 hour they go,
47:02
hey, we're going to put new technology acquisition under
47:05
you. And the lawyer was like me.
47:06
And they're like, yeah, you're good at it.
47:08
He goes, actually, I love that kind of stuff.
47:10
And so they actually, they didn't change his title.
47:13
They didn't. They just said you're going to
47:15
take over that responsibility, we're going to give you a few
47:16
more employees and you get to do that.
47:18
And he was psyched. Well, a couple years later, I
47:21
went and looked on the website and I was, I wonder what that
47:22
guy's doing. And he was gone.
47:24
Well, I thought he was gone because he was no longer the
47:26
chief legal officer. They took him out of legal
47:28
completely and he was full time in technology.
47:30
Wow. So most decent companies want to
47:34
find the best way to use their people.
47:37
So go to your boss and just go, hey, I want you to understand
47:40
who I am. And at the very least, they're
47:43
going to have more empathy for what you are great at and what
47:46
you might struggle with. You talked a little bit about
47:49
the W is and the sorts of jobs that might be conducive to them,
47:53
you know, inventors thinking big ideas.
47:55
You mentioned think tanks or you know, starting things,
47:58
entrepreneurial projects. Can you kind of run us through
48:02
maybe just high level the different parts of working
48:05
genius and the potentially the types of roles or jobs that
48:09
generally speaking people might be best suited to, to give them
48:13
a framework to add to the framework?
48:15
Sure. So since there's six types,
48:17
there's 15 combinations or pairings, and every time you
48:20
take it, you get the list of pairings and you can read those.
48:23
By the way, we have a student version for young people too now
48:25
that we just put out and young meaning like in their first
48:28
couple years of college, even because they they don't have the
48:31
work experience. So the questions are asked
48:32
differently, but the the point is that different.
48:36
So in those six types, if, if you are toward the the bottom
48:42
end, which is landing the plane, like GE and T galvanizing
48:46
people, enablement and tenacity get jobs that have definition
48:51
and clarity about what what finished is and and what success
48:57
looks like. I hired a guy.
48:58
He's my he's a year younger than me.
49:00
He he knows you who he knows who you are.
49:02
He's very supportive. He's an ET.
49:06
I'd never had an ETI hire him. And I go, Joe, you figure out
49:11
whatever you want to do and you tell me what success looks like
49:16
because that's what I would love to say.
49:17
And he goes, Pat, you're killing me.
49:18
I'm like, why that would be the greatest job ever?
49:20
He goes, no, no, no. I want to know what the
49:22
deliverables are, what success looks like, what the system is
49:25
and the structure. And I realized, oh, wow.
49:28
So the the point here is if you're a.
49:30
Wait, I just had to pause you here because I just learned
49:33
something. I mean, I've been learning
49:34
things from you my, you know, the last decade, but I just
49:36
learned something new that I could implement starting today,
49:40
which is I have a tendency, especially when I'm building a
49:42
new team, to say, tell me what you want to do to, you know,
49:45
write your job description, come up with your deliverables.
49:47
Here's the big idea. But I really, I realize that for
49:50
some people, that is actually really frustrating and not what
49:53
they want to be. They want to be told and that's
49:55
going to be part of their working genius to be told that
49:57
they can execute Florida State on what they're told.
50:00
So I'm actually doing, I'm actually expecting them to be
50:02
like me when I don't want them to be like me.
50:05
I want them to be. I need them to be like them.
50:07
So thank you for that, Pat. I, I learned something just in
50:09
this moment. So I appreciate that.
50:11
And it's very common and and similarly.
50:13
And if you're AWI or an ID like me, find a job or, or, or, or in
50:20
your job, find a way to tap into the, the evaluation of things
50:27
and the coming up with new ideas.
50:28
And it might be within the context.
50:30
So let's just say you work at a software company.
50:33
Well, there's jobs for every kind, but don't get a job if
50:37
you're an ID or AWI like us, that is super defined, super
50:42
limited and you come in and you have to do something in a
50:45
prescribed way. And sometimes the very job you
50:49
have, your boss can go, hey, why don't we just change the way you
50:52
do it? Your responsibilities are the
50:53
same. OK, let me give you an example.
50:55
When I was a kid, my dad, God rest his soul, used to get me up
50:58
to mow the lawn every Saturday. He loved it.
51:00
I hated it, Lila. And for years I felt guilty
51:04
because I loved my dad and and I know he wanted me to go help
51:07
him, but it was just awful. And I felt like what a terrible
51:12
son. When I came up with Working
51:13
Genius, I realized he wanted me to follow him around and
51:18
whenever he told me to do something, to do it and to do it
51:20
perfectly, which is. Exactly.
51:23
That sounds like HELL. I know doesn't.
51:27
It the worst for AWI or even an ID like you.
51:30
I mean, that sounds I can see why that was like terrifying to
51:33
you, but for like you know, the end of it, like for a for a for
51:37
AT, you know, or for an E that's like please give me more.
51:40
I want to follow you around and do every last detail you tell
51:42
me. And you know what I realized a
51:45
couple times he would go, hey, do you do the backyard?
51:47
And, and I'd say I'll figure it out.
51:49
Dad and I would go back there and I would like, hey, I think
51:52
we should get some plants here. I'm going to, I'm going to mow
51:55
it and make cross hatches in it to make it look cool.
51:57
Like I was designing what the backyard was looking like.
52:00
And it was so much fun. And so get the even a gardener.
52:06
2 gardeners can go about the job differently. 2 second grade
52:09
teachers will have totally different ways of teaching a
52:12
class. One of them is, and we, I did a
52:15
thing for educators. One of them would, would say
52:18
like, oh, I have a, a Lesson plan and I do it every time.
52:21
And if you do your test, I'll have it back the next day.
52:23
And I always grade the papers. And you know, you're sitting
52:25
there going, I would never do that.
52:26
You and I would go into class and go, Hey, forget about the
52:29
Lesson plan. You guys.
52:30
I just thought of something last night.
52:31
Everybody get up out of your chairs.
52:33
We're going to do something. And they're, and then the
52:34
parents might go. You know, my son turned into his
52:36
test 2 weeks ago. You haven't got it back.
52:38
Oh, I know, I know. But I'm really just trying to
52:40
inspire. Two people doing the same job
52:43
can do it completely differently.
52:45
And they're both valid. Just know that and explain to
52:49
people, you know? And like in a school, a
52:52
principal should know. Oh yeah, misses so and so.
52:54
She does that, Mister so and so. He actually teaches his class
52:57
differently. Maybe they can work together to
52:59
balance out some of the things they do.
53:01
But let's just understand who they are and realize it's all
53:04
good. So, so it's less about.
53:06
It's just about how you go about doing what you do, less about
53:11
the job itself. Such good stuff.
53:15
OK, we just have a few more minutes, but I want to ask
53:17
about, I've been dying to ask about unusual pairings.
53:20
You mentioned that there's only a certain number of pairings
53:23
that can come out of the working genius, the six different types
53:26
of genius. What about these pairings?
53:28
So what about, as an example, the inventor coupled with
53:32
tenacity? So you have an eye, someone
53:36
who's a little bit in the clouds at 50,000 feet coming up with
53:39
new stuff and then skip all the other stuff.
53:41
Then they just like to directly do it themselves and get it
53:43
done. We call.
53:44
That, that kind of person's awesome.
53:47
Well, exactly, but we call them the methodical architect because
53:51
they come up with a new idea, but they have a method for
53:54
implementing it. And, and what happens for them
53:57
is you should do it the way they lay it out.
54:02
But but what they often don't understand is that human beings
54:05
don't necessarily do it that way.
54:06
So they get very frustrated if you don't follow directions.
54:08
And the thing they would say is if you did it the way I told
54:11
you, it would have worked. And they're right.
54:13
So the methodical architect is really good at designing a plan
54:17
and putting things in place and, and actually explaining how to
54:21
implement it. And so their idea is predicated
54:23
on the process, which is totally different than an even one like
54:30
it. How about an IE, they're called
54:32
the adaptive designer and, and they come up with a new idea.
54:37
And if you go to them and go, oh, this doesn't work for me,
54:38
they go, oh, that's OK, I'll come up with another one and
54:40
they'll come up with another one.
54:41
And they're not at all wedded to the outcome.
54:43
They're wedded to like, I want to please you because I'm an
54:45
enabling innovator. Does that make sense?
54:48
That's really good. What about W wonder E
54:52
enablement? I love this.
54:55
The the WE is probably the most sensitive kind because they're
54:59
they're up in their head and they're thinking about, they're
55:01
very idealistic, but then they also want to please people.
55:05
And these people get taken advantage of without realizing
55:07
it because they do what you want them to do, but they do think
55:10
about it and they're like, please appreciate me.
55:13
And it's easy to overlook them. They get really sad and nobody
55:17
really knows it. And so they're, and, and so boy,
55:21
if you, if you've got AWE, make sure you're totally grateful for
55:25
what they do. You're checking in with how
55:27
they're feeling and you know that they're likely to work
55:31
themselves sick and feel like they can't say so.
55:35
Very good. And then what about, what about
55:37
ADA Discerner G? And I know we've talked before
55:43
about DGS and how amazing and how much we love DGS and Cody's
55:46
ADG. And I actually have a DG on my
55:48
team that I am so grateful for. But tell me about a tell us
55:51
about a DG Discerner Galvanizer. Yeah, they're the intuitive
55:55
activator. They they are quick to go.
55:58
I got enough information that's going to work.
55:59
Let's get started. So they're very quick to go.
56:04
Enough, enough data. I feel good about it.
56:06
What are we going to do now? So they are the intuitive
56:09
activator. They get it and they want, they
56:11
want to move quick. Now there's downsides to every
56:13
one of these types, these pairings and there's, there's,
56:16
there's words for every pairing. And it's so funny when people
56:21
take it and they look at the, they look at the, their pairing
56:24
and their, the, the words we picked.
56:27
And it's like they're like, Oh my gosh, that's so me.
56:30
And what we always say is go to your friend or your spouse or
56:33
your, your, your Co workers and show it to them.
56:35
They're going to go. That is that was written for
56:37
you. You're the creative dreamer.
56:40
You are the creative dreamer. And you know what you do?
56:43
I love this Lila. This is so fun.
56:45
You constantly come up with new ideas and even at half the
56:48
questions you're like, I wonder and I love that you start there.
56:51
And as a result, on a team, there are moments where you
56:56
create chaos. I I know I've learned this, I'm
56:59
still learning this the hard way, but it's like you, you come
57:02
up with and you're like, Oh, that was just an idea.
57:04
And everyone off to him, off to the races implementing it.
57:06
And then the next day you have a new and they're like, wait a
57:08
second, You literally told me yesterday we're going this
57:11
direction. You're like, that was we're just
57:12
talking. That was just a fun conversation
57:14
that I had with you. So totally it.
57:17
It's been very fun to fun. And also, you learn a lot to
57:22
watch this in action. And then it's beautiful, right?
57:25
And you know. What's beautiful, it's the
57:27
prayer of Saint Francis. Seek to understand.
57:29
And it's like when people realize that you don't do that
57:31
'cause you're like trying to blow them off or you're trying
57:33
to change plans. You're like, hey, I just do
57:35
this. They can actually say, oh,
57:37
you're WIN, aren't you? And you go, yeah, I I say to
57:40
people all the time, hey, I'm eyeing.
57:42
I'm not G ING 'cause they think if I throw it out there, I'm
57:45
galvanizing them to act. And I'm like, no, no, no, don't
57:48
act. I'm just throwing this against
57:50
the wall so it's it gives us a language to understand each
57:53
other and to communicate better. And then Pat year and we can end
57:57
with this one. You are an ID, yes, although you
58:00
do do I think you do wonder what are your second do?
58:03
Is it wonder? Is it WG?
58:05
Yes. That's right.
58:06
So what's the? What are the hallmarks of ID?
58:09
ID is the discriminating ideator and that that means the, the I
58:15
come up with lots of ideas, but I'm constantly a value like like
58:18
the first draft of the papers I write are damn close to the to
58:22
the answer because while I'm writing and frankly after that,
58:25
I don't get it much better. So I don't do a lot of, I tweak
58:29
as I go. And so when I come up with an
58:32
idea, I've usually been kind of vetting it as I go because I'm
58:37
both, I like to evaluate and come up with ideas
58:39
simultaneously. Now, let me tell you what I
58:42
don't do. Well, I don't take people along
58:44
with me. Like I'll come up with the the
58:46
answer and they'll be like, well, how did you get there?
58:49
And, and you skip, you didn't even hear what I said, but I
58:51
heard what they said and I went four steps down the road.
58:54
And then I said, here's the answer.
58:55
And they're like, are you going to explain to me how you arrived
58:57
at that? And I'm terrible at that.
59:00
And so I jump ahead too quickly and I try to get to the answer
59:03
too quickly. And but I do.
59:06
And, and my kids will say it's kind of annoying because I'm
59:10
often I'm right more than I'm wrong.
59:13
And it kind of drives them nuts because like, OK, you might be
59:16
right dad, but you still shouldn't have done it that way.
59:18
And you're kind of pissing me off.
59:19
But is it? Is it?
59:20
I'm actually curious. I know I've got a wrap here in a
59:22
minute. Is it tough for you to have to
59:25
explain again and again and again this thing that you Id'd?
59:30
Yes and and we we did this thing in called crave and crush.
59:35
Like, what does each type crave the most and what crushes them?
59:40
And I crave trust when somebody comes to me and says, hey, Pat,
59:43
I need your advice. And I'm going to trust that
59:46
you're probably going in the right direction.
59:48
I love that. But what I what crushes me?
59:50
And when somebody says prove it or I don't think you're right, I
59:54
hate to argue with it. And like, you crave like that
59:58
somebody wants your new thinking, like, oh, I love that.
1:00:03
Tell me more about what you're thinking.
1:00:04
And if they're like, yeah, that's stupid.
1:00:06
That's not important. It's like, Oh no.
1:00:10
So we all crave certain things based on our pairings, and we
1:00:12
get crushed by things. And I really hate when people
1:00:15
say, well, you're going to have to prove to me that that works.
1:00:19
All right, this has been such a treat that we could go on for
1:00:22
hours and we got to get you out in OC to do this, Pat Moore,
1:00:26
because it's such good stuff. But where can people find
1:00:29
working genius? Where can people find your books
1:00:32
and learn more about this amazing tool?
1:00:35
So Working Genius with 2G's in the middle.
1:00:38
Working genius.com is the website.
1:00:40
You can get everything there. There's tons of stuff and free
1:00:42
stuff there, downloadable stuff, all that.
1:00:44
And it costs $25 to do the assessment and it takes 12
1:00:47
minutes and there's all kinds of stuff there.
1:00:49
Also, teams can do it and do a team report and look at the
1:00:51
whole team's working genius and see where there's gaps and
1:00:54
stuff. I have a book called The Six
1:00:56
Types of Working Genius, but I say do the assessment first,
1:00:59
learn about it and then it'll take you through how we came up
1:01:02
with it and all the details. But we also have a podcast for
1:01:06
people that are and it's grown like crazy where we just get on
1:01:09
once every two weeks and do A and talk for like 45 minutes
1:01:13
about different parts of working genius.
1:01:15
And we have like 3000 people certified in working genius now
1:01:18
where they take a two day class, they become an experts on it and
1:01:21
then go out and do it for others.
1:01:22
So we have a certification program that people want to do
1:01:24
that. And a lot of those people to get
1:01:25
certified love to listen to the podcast and explore it more.
1:01:29
So that's that's probably the best way to do it.
1:01:31
Thank. You for asking Lila Amazing and
1:01:33
the podcast is two of my favorite people, Pat Lencioni
1:01:36
and Cody Thompson and I highly recommend it.
1:01:39
So excited to get people listening if they haven't
1:01:42
already checked it out. Pat, you are amazing.
1:01:44
Thank you so much for everything you do for me and so many other
1:01:46
people. Can't wait to have you back on
1:01:48
and keep keep blazing trails. I love it.
1:01:51
You're still my hero. Thank you for having me on and I
1:01:53
miss you. Thank you, Pat, thanks so much
1:01:57
for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose podcast.
1:02:00
Check out Pat's work at the link in the description.
1:02:03
I think the working genius is really going to serve you.
1:02:05
I know it served me. And I also just find this kind
1:02:07
of stuff so fun. I think that's because I am AWI
1:02:10
and I love to just think about stuff, but I think it will
1:02:12
actually practically serve you as Pat detailed.
1:02:15
Also, don't forget if you haven't already, subscribe to
1:02:17
the podcast. If you're on podcast app, make
1:02:19
sure you subscribe and leave us a review and give us five stars.
1:02:22
That helps the show reach more people.
1:02:24
And if you're on YouTube, make sure you're subscribed and ring
1:02:27
the notification bell. We've discovered that sometimes
1:02:29
up to 80% of the people watching these videos aren't subscribed
1:02:32
yet to the channel. So make sure you're subscribed
1:02:35
to the Lila Rose podcast on YouTube as well.
1:02:37
Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you guys next
1:02:39
time. And a huge thank you to our
1:02:41
partner. EWTNEWTN is the largest Catholic
1:02:45
network in the world, reaching millions with entertainment,
1:02:48
news and more. Check them out at ewtn.com.