Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #190: Fulton Sheen’s Legacy: New Sheen Center & Sainthood Update

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Catholic Conversations #190: Fulton Sheen’s Legacy: New Sheen Center & Sainthood Update · Catholic Spirit Radio

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Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Hello and welcome, friends. I'm Stan Ketzig.
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You know, some of the best conversations happen when we simply sit down together,
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maybe with a cup of coffee or tea in hand and talk about what matters most.
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That's the spirit of this show. Welcome to Catholic Conversations.
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Whether you're commuting, working at home, or actually sitting with that cup
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of coffee like I am today, we're so glad that you've joined us.
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Each week, we'll explore the beauty, the depth, and the lived experience of the Catholic faith.
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Let's start a conversation that matters. This is Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Today, we're discussing a topic that has inspired a heartfelt campaign.
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My guest is Monsignor Jason Gray, a prominent priest of the Diocese of Peoria, Illinois here.
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He's best known in recent news as the director of the Archbishop Fulton J.
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Sheen Center, a major new initiative to honor the diocese's most famous native
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son, Archbishop Fulton Sheen.
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Monsignor Gray, welcome to the program. Very good. Thank you for having me.
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I am so excited to have you here today because we have some breaking Fulton
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Sheen news that we're going to talk about.
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I don't want to give it right now. I want to make sure everybody tunes in.
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But first, tell us a little bit about yourself.
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First of all, what is a Monsignor versus a Monsignor?
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A regular father. Sure. So every Monsignor is a priest, so I'm a priest of the diocese.
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So you can say father Monsignor. Monsignor is an honorary term.
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It's less about me.
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We're here less to talk about myself. But I've been a priest of the Diocese
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Superior now for 28 years.
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And so it was 20 years ago, or 23 years ago, that the cause for Fulton Sheen opened.
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And so I was around at the time and helped in different ways.
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As time went on, I had a part to play in the investigation of Sheen's life,
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so helping with the reading of some of his books, so there to be a theological review of his books.
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I later was appointed to carry out the miracle investigation.
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And so that's something that I'm intimately familiar with. Later on,
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I was actually sent to Rome and I worked in the Congregation for Causes of Saints at the time.
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I came back and then it was Bishop Tilka that appointed me as the executive
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director of the Sheen Foundation.
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So I've kind of played a whole variety of different roles. But my responsibility
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now is to promote the cause and to represent the cause, to advocate for the
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beatification and the canonization.
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We don't want to forget that as well. Absolutely.
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That is coming up. Do we have any inspiring news that we can talk about?
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We've been kind of holding back on finding out when he's actually going to become a saint.
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Do you have any updates or anything we could talk about as far as that goes?
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I'd actually say two things about that.
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The first is that we've really never stopped working for the beatification.
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So the beatification was approved to go ahead in 2019, and we encountered a pause.
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And so I know that's something that's been the cause of, I think, some lament.
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There were people really, really hungering and waiting for that moment of beatification.
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But there's also good news.
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So not only have we heard positive news there. So we think that there's been
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some press, some reports that have come out saying that there's,
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so different reporters have said that there's positive news,
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and we think that there is.
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But then in addition to that, ever since the beatification was approved in 2019,
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we also need one miracle to go forward that happened after 2019 that could be used for canonization.
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And we have potentially five.
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So we've actually heard from five different people, a variety of things.
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And some of these are in really just the initial phase of being investigated.
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But we're hopeful that if one of those pans out as something that will stand up to scrutiny.
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Within the Holy See, within the Vatican, that we might even have a miracle that
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we could present for canonization.
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So, beatification soon, canonization hopefully not far off. That would be our
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hope. Wow. Well, I love hearing that. And you know what I'd like to do?
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I'd like you to talk a little bit about Fulton Sheen.
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And there might be people that never even heard of him, have no idea who he
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is. Can you give a little background on Archbishop Fulton Sheen?
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So, probably the most important thing to say about Sheen is that he was one
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of the most effective evangelists that we've had in the United States in recent history.
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Sometimes I think the word evangelist is maybe a little bit of a dirty word.
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We think more of that in terms of, probably more in terms of Protestants than
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we think in terms of Catholics. But Fulton Sheen was really the forerunner.
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He was the one who was, you know, ordained as a priest and went out to Catholic
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University of America and he taught.
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But more than just a teacher, more than a professor in the classroom,
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he was someone who made use of media.
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And he started off in the 1930s and 1940s being on radio And he was very successful
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there doing a program for Catholics, doing the Catholic Hour on public radio.
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Was that nationwide or was that just a local thing at that time?
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I believe that was, well, it was carried on the public network.
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So I believe it was nationwide.
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And it had, so there he had over
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3 million, 4 million people listening regularly at the peak of his time.
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And then in the 1950s, of course, with television coming on board,
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then the famous show Life is Worth Living, which ran in the 50s.
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He did that for about six years, and that was also on public television.
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Really garnering a tremendous audience on Sunday nights. It was must-see TV
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for Catholics, for some Protestants, for some Jews, for all sorts of people.
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Even sometimes topping the ratings of Milton Berle, even outperforming Milton Berle.
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Now, young people today have no idea who Uncle Miltie is, as they would say, Milton Berle.
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But it would be the, so just outperforming some of the most famous shows at
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the time. And it was just because he was so compelling.
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And so he continued on. He did some other programs. He had the Fulton Sheen
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Hour later on. But he was also at Vatican II. He was a diocesan bishop for a period of time.
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Wrote a tremendous number of books, so over 60 books. So these are the things
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he's known for. But it's really his evangelization that is the thing that's
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probably the most important contribution he's made to the church.
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Yeah, when we think of 2026, we think of social media, we think of,
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you know, influencers, and he was the original religious influencer of the world.
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I can't think of anybody other than Jesus that got that word out there,
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you know, as far as reaching people here in the United States,
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that's for sure. and he was patriotic and funny. There might be a few other
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saints in the course of 20 centuries.
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We should be a little cautious. Well, there I go, but at least in this last
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century, I can't imagine anyone who used modern media more effectively than Sheen.
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And it was one of those things that I think it's an inspiration for the church
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because we see, especially the rise today, not only did you have radio and television
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and all that continue, but now the internet as well.
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There's such a Catholic presence in social media and there are so many different
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people who have made their contribution to that. And I think Sheen kind of becomes
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a patron for all of those people to make the best use of modern technology possible.
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And with the Internet, one could just imagine what would happen if Sheen was
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around at this time to make use of the resources that we have today.
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He was there when radio was really coming on board, when television was coming
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on board. And then, of course, you know, as he passed in 1979, retired in 1969.
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And then he passed in 1979. So he's not around in our present day,
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but if he were, if he were, we know he'd be making use of all of our modern technology as well.
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Well, you know, Monsignor, one thing I find fascinating about going online,
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and you can see a lot of his talks on YouTube, the TV shows you're talking about
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on YouTube, his message then is so relevant to today.
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Could you talk a little bit about, you know, his message?
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Yeah, one of the things that he did, and this is something he was very conscious
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about. When he was on radio, he took what he called a direct approach where
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he was talking about the Catholic faith, and he was really speaking to Catholics
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about the Catholic faith.
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But when he went on television, the program Life is Worth Living,
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he took a different approach, and he did so deliberately.
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It was what he called an indirect approach, and so he got into religious themes,
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but he always approached them through some sort of common experience that we
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had, kind of like where Jesus would use parables.
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The parable would be some common experience that Jesus could appeal to that
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everyone would understand. And he'd use that to teach about the faith.
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And Sheen did much the same thing. He would use examples from literature.
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He loved especially Russian literature.
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He loved to talk about psychology, about science, about history.
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He would tell things from history or use poetry.
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So he just used a tremendous number of things. And he would draw you in not only with humor.
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He would always use a lot of humor to get started to bring the audience on board
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with him. But also as they would listen to some of the other things he would
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speak about, I think he's someone who really knew the longings of the human heart.
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And so especially when he would make comments about psychology,
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maybe that was one of the areas I think he had some of the keenest insights into.
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And so when he would talk about that, he would bring all of the listeners,
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regardless of their faith, he'd bring them along with him into this discussion
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and then draw them into recognition of the need that we have for God.
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And so in one way or another, he'd always use these different techniques to
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do that. And that's why I think he appealed really to an interdenominational audience.
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He really had quite the broad audience, not just Catholics, but plenty of Catholics
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listened as well. What do you think he would say if he were alive today about
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the state of our nation and our world?
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Yeah, that would— You've done a lot of research.
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Well, one of the things that he would talk about— So, he was very famous in
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particular for opposing communism.
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And he recognized that communism really went against the relationship that we should have with God.
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He says, communist denies private property, and it also denies God or religion.
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And he says, communism has to do away with both of them. And so for that reason,
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he was really very particular about that.
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But that's not to say that he would then be automatically a capitalist,
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because you can also find plenty of places in which he would talk about capitalism.
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And in this sense, if we try to subordinate human worth merely to capital or
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to reduce us to just merely our productivity or just to money or monetary value,
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well, that's also equally as destructive.
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And so Sheen was really quite good at, I think, recognizing where the weaknesses
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were in, not just in communism, but also dangers present in capitalism.
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And so Sheen was someone who would find a third way. And this is where,
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when I've reflected on some of his political thinking, sometimes we look at the right and the left.
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And then when we say right and left, we'd say, well, that's very one-dimensional.
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It's just a flat line. Are you right or are you left? Sheen would be two-dimensional.
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He would go up. And so his goal was, I think, always to kind of pull upward,
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upward toward God, some of the instincts that we have in a political sense.
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So I think that's what Sheen would try to do with our society today.
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But if there's anything that he would, what would he say about our society today?
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I think he would recognize that there is a tremendous amount of anxiety in the
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human heart, in people today. I think we're worried about many things.
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I think we're searching for answers to some of the deepest questions of life
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and not looking to God for those answers.
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You know, we look to science to try to solve, you know, issues that we have
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or psychology or politics.
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And in the end, all of these things, if God's not a part of that discussion,
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then all of those are going to give empty answers, incomplete answers.
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And so Sheen would always, I think, be pushing us to go beyond just what we
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might instinctively go to in our culture today.
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Without God, then really, we're always going to remain lost.
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If you're just tuning in, we are talking to Monsignor Jason Gray.
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Fascinating. I just love the information that's coming out of you about Fulton Sheen.
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With all of your research that you've done, has there been anything that you
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discovered that kind of surprised you about him?
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That's a good question. There's so much to admire.
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I think, I'll say this, one of the things that might have gotten in the way
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a little bit of the cause when it was first introduced, first introduced in 2002.
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Is I think some people, they may have assumed that maybe Shane was a little
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proud, that there might have been, I don't know about arrogance,
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but maybe a little arrogance, a little pride. I mean, he was someone who had been so successful.
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He'd run an Emmy for the program Life is Worth Living.
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He had over 30 million people watching when he was on television.
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And he was someone who was so popular and had really always enjoyed a tremendous
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amount of success in so many things that he did.
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And so you might perhaps suspect that there was a little bit of pride.
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And I wonder if that wasn't some of the hesitation.
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When the cause was introduced, so he died in New York, so the idea is that New
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York was the place where the cause should be instructed.
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At the time, New York wasn't interested, and so they went to Rochester,
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where he had been a diocesan bishop, but Rochester wasn't interested.
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Eventually, in 2002, those who were supporting the cause came around to Bishop
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Jenke in Peoria, and Bishop Jenke was interested in the cause.
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And if anyone kind of thought that, Well, you're not going to really find a
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whole lot that's going to be that inspiring about Sheen. Well, I beg to differ.
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Because if there is one surprise, you asked about the surprise,
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I would say it's his humility.
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There's a tremendous sense of humility in Sheen. Now, it's not that he wasn't
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well-educated and he knew that and he had gone to some of the most prestigious
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universities in the world and had some of the most advanced degrees in the world.
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I don't think his success was attributable because he had letters behind his
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name or academic degrees, but there was something,
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I think, about his relationship with Jesus Christ, and especially as he would
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focus so much on the Holy Hour and the Eucharist, I think this is what kept
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him grounded, what kept Sheen humble.
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And the humility is the thing, I think, that really emerges.
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There's a real sense of his recognition of that everything that he did was successful
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because it came through Jesus Christ.
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And so, when he would talk about converts, for example, they'd say,
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how many converts is it that you've made?
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He says, I don't count them, because if I counted them, I might think I was
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the one that converted them.
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But he says, no, it's the Lord who makes converts, not me. So,
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there's just a small example of the type of humility here.
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That is beautiful. That is beautiful. Do you—so—.
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New York wasn't interested. Rochester wasn't interested. It comes to Peoria.
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What's the process, you know, that gets everything started as far as this beautiful
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center that you're creating goes?
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So the beginning of the process starts just with the opening of the investigation.
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And the first thing that has to happen is the investigation of his life and virtues.
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So at the risk of kind of delving into the details here, it's you have to gather
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all of his published writings, which is not a small task.
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Oh, I can imagine. And all of the private writings that we're able to find.
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So it's a really comprehensive study, as well as interviewing people who knew
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him, so firsthand witnesses who knew him in life.
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And so there were over 100 witnesses, I believe, and they were asked over 100 questions.
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It's an immense amount of effort and time. Monsignor Richard Sosman was the
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delegate who undertook that investigation, heroically so.
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And since he's passed on, but really, the cause really must give Monsignor Sosman
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a tremendous amount of credit for the hard work that he did in doing that investigation.
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And in the end, that's all sent to Rome. And then Rome studies it internally
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and with the help of theologians and the cardinals and bishops.
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And so, first thing was that they recognized that he was a man of heroic virtue.
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So, not just virtue, but heroic virtue.
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It's easy to practice some virtues some of the time, but to practice all of
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the virtues consistently throughout one's life is really a remarkable thing.
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And that was the first step in recognizing him as venerable.
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And so that was one of the first things that we did before we then eventually had a miracle.
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And the miracle was what's going to lead to his beatification.
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Wow. And from here, we're just about to come up to a break.
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So when we come back, I'd like to talk about the creation of this center.
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I want to find out if there's any other news that we can, I know we can't break
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it, but we can talk about it.
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And this is going to be a real big deal for Peoria, isn't it?
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Is it going to be thousands and thousands of people are going to be coming to Peoria when this?
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We have a museum, and I'll just tease this part of it, is that we have a museum
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that's built in our pastoral center, and it's maybe 3,000 square foot.
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But the school that Sheen attended for high school, Spalding Institute,
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that's a 30,000 square foot building.
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We're going to convert that into the Sheen Experience or the Sheen Center.
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So this will give us so much more space to be able to demonstrate so many things,
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to show off what we have about Sheen and to help people to come to know Sheen.
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I love it. Okay, you're listening to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit
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Radio. Today we're talking to Monsignor Jason Gray about the Archbishop Fulton
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J. Sheen Center in Peoria.
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When we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about what it would be like
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to visit when this incredible facility is put together, and it's just an exciting day.
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It's great to be with you, Monsignor. Thank you so much for coming in today,
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and we have somebody wonderful on the board that's about to take us to break,
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and when we come back, we'll be talking more about that.
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Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen here on Catholic Spirit Radio. You're listening to
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Welcome back to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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I'm Stan Ketsick. Before the break, we were talking to Monsignor Jason Gray
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about the Archbishop Fulton J.
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Sheen Center in Peoria. Am I even getting the name right?
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What we've used the term, we don't want to just call it a center or a museum.
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Bishop Tilke has used the term the Fulton Sheen experience. Experience.
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Because we actually, and it's to capture that it's more than just a museum.
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So this is more than just showing up and seeing a bunch of just static things.
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The one thing that the foundation has been very successful at and we're very
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grateful for is that people have given so many of the different memorabilia
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or things that they have that they've treasured.
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And they've donated it to the Sheen Foundation because they know that we're
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going to preserve it and protect it. So there's so many things that we have
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from possessions that Sheen had, things he used in his ministry.
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Different vestments that he's had, and that we're able to display.
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Now, we can only display a fraction of them because of the space that we have
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right now, but we'll have more space later.
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But people have left so many of those things, so that way you can see these
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items, and people have a sense that they can connect to Sheen by seeing some of those things.
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But that's not enough, in our opinion, because Sheen was more than just,
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you know, that, oh, here's something he had, here's something he wore, something he touched.
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But instead, Sheen left a legacy because of all of the media, the books and the media.
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And so we've actually have a documentary, Servant of All, which still is available
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for sale. We're still selling those.
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And that tells a lot of the story about Sheen. And plus, there's all of the programs that he had.
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And we've been working out ways in which we can rebroadcast those episodes of
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Life is Worth Living to make sure that we have the permission and the rights to do that.
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Which we will do in the new facility, because it's more than just coming to
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see things Sheen owned, but to meet Sheen as a person. to come to know him,
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to see him, to listen to him, and to continue to gain insight from him.
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We also are working on collecting so many of the materials that we have and
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digitizing them in a way that people can even use it as a kind of a library, as a resource.
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So, we're hoping for a kind of a digital archive that people could come and
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research in or explore so as to meet the person of Sheen more than just things about it.
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Sure. Well, you know, we have a listenership of about 2 million people.
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We have a great span throughout central Illinois and into northern Wisconsin. And what I wanted to...
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So we tell them to come down. Yeah, I was just thinking to myself.
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Come to Peoria. You know what's so cool? What if a little kid goes, Mom, what's a saint?
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They can just go, Hey, look at, you can, first of all, you can see everything
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that he's done on YouTube, which every kid goes to.
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And then they can drive to Peoria to the address, which is? Yeah,
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so CelebrateSheen.com is the website that has the material there.
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So both the Pastoral Center and the Cathedral are on Northeast Madison in Peoria.
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So the 400 block and 600 blocks. So they're very close to one another.
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So they could go there now and they could see things. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
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So they should see the hours that we have available because the cathedral is
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open for certain hours and then the pastoral center is usually open during business hours.
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And so there's, if they kind of look ahead and kind of see what the schedule is, they can come by.
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We're hopeful that if we have news about an upcoming beatification,
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we have every reason to be very positive and hopeful that there will be good
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news about that shortly.
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And if that's the case, then we're already preparing for the fact that we're
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going to need to expand the number of hours that we have available.
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So we try to make time available as much as we can, and then we'll probably
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have to expand that so more people can come, not only to visit the museum so
22:05
you can learn about Sheen, but more importantly than that, to visit the cathedral.
22:09
The cathedral is the place where Sheen's mortal remains are laid to rest.
22:13
And so there is the tomb present in the cathedral, and there people can actually
22:17
go to the tomb itself or touch their religious objects to the tomb and things like that.
22:21
That's another devotional thing that people oftentimes do is to make the connection
22:25
to Sheen, but to pray in front of his tomb.
22:28
But more importantly, what Sheen would tell us to do is to pray in front of the Blessed Sacrament.
22:31
So by visiting the cathedral, you not only have the Eucharist there,
22:33
but also the body of Fulton Sheen.
22:35
And these are both ways in which more than just learning about Sheen,
22:39
we can come to do some of the things that Sheen himself did,
22:41
which was to spend time in prayer to the Lord.
22:43
Most important of all. And as you create this, first of all,
22:46
let me just ask you, I've already asked you for a favor today.
22:49
You're going to bless some of my scapulars that I brought in.
22:51
But as a favor, when you do get the news, could you call Catholic Spirit Radio
22:55
first and have us record it so that we can play it over and over and over and over?
23:01
That would be wonderful. That would be happy to do. You heard it,
23:04
folks, and the Monsignor doesn't lie, so he'll be giving us a call first.
23:07
But what I really want to find out, this is going to be a fascinating thing for everybody.
23:12
It's going to be great for the Catholic faith. It's going to be great for the
23:16
people of Illinois, of Indiana, Iowa, the surrounding areas,
23:19
because they will actually get to visit with a saint. They'll get to see a saint.
23:24
They'll get to just experience a saint. And what I'm thinking about is the experience.
23:29
Let's say right now it's 2030. The center is done.
23:32
What's that look like if somebody comes in? So the building itself,
23:35
the Spalding Institute building.
23:37
It's a high school that ceased to operate as a high school a couple decades ago.
23:41
But the building is still the same building. So the building is still standing there.
23:45
So people who go by today can actually still see the building.
23:47
It's actually a very beautiful building with great architecture and great stonework
23:51
on the outside, which we'll probably do a couple things to maintain,
23:54
to make sure that it's kept up and it's in good shape.
23:58
But you can actually see the building now. And that building is the place that
24:01
Sheen, for four years, went to high school.
24:04
So the whole building in a certain sense is a kind of a relic.
24:07
So he was the one that he walked the halls. He was the valedictorian.
24:10
Of his class in 1919. So, so at the, or in 19, 1913, he was ordained in 1919.
24:16
But in 1913, when he graduated, he was valedictorian there at Spalding Institute.
24:20
And so this is a place that was really, you know, important to him.
24:23
It was a special place for him. And now while we're, right, it's not going to
24:26
be a school by the time we remake it.
24:27
So it'll be made over into kind of more of a museum space, but we want to have
24:31
theater space so that way we can show the programming that we have.
24:34
We want to also make sure that we're connected using modern technology that,
24:38
that we would have actually a recording studio there.
24:40
When you say theater space, are you talking like a big theater where there could
24:43
be plays or there could be movies?
24:45
Oh, mostly I would say it's more about being able to show whether it's films
24:49
about Sheen or to show Sheen's programs.
24:51
So a theater where people could then come and actually see some of the programming
24:55
that Sheen had or even participate, which we can now do today so easily to be
24:59
interactive sometimes with different people as well.
25:02
So to make sure that we have a studio for recording or for broadcasting about
25:06
sharing information about Sheen, connecting with people the world over about,
25:10
you know, who themselves are devoted to Sheen or scholars on Sheen.
25:13
It's, you don't have to just be in the Midwest to be able to come to Peoria.
25:16
Really now with the internet, anyone can come and join in and be a part.
25:21
But I should also say, I know we're talking about the local area in the Midwest
25:25
about coming to Peoria, but it's not just people from the Midwest who make the trip into Peoria.
25:29
So we actually have a surprisingly broad number of people who will come through
25:34
Peoria, especially people who are on their way for that Eucharistic celebration in Indianapolis.
25:40
People from traveling from great distances who plan to come by.
25:43
So we've had people from all 50 states who would make a trip, who would come in.
25:47
So you'd be shocked at the number of people, even internationally,
25:49
international groups that make specific pilgrimage, even now,
25:52
even before we have an announcement about a beatification, already the devotion is there.
25:58
So this, it's in some ways that, so we're talking about a small town of Peoria,
26:01
but it's a small town with a big impact.
26:03
And we've had people from all over the world who make their way here.
26:07
So the school is going to be the museum. It's going to be the center.
26:10
It's going to be a full center with media and everything.
26:13
What do you think it's going to do for the Catholic faith? Well,
26:17
it'll definitely have a museum aspect to it.
26:20
So there will be things, because people love to come and see.
26:23
You'd be surprised at what we have right now that people love to see.
26:26
We have his desk from the Mission Society, when he was head of the Propagation
26:30
of the Faith, when he was working for the missions, raising money for the missionary activity of the church.
26:35
So we've got his desk that was there. We have one of the blotters that he used from his desk.
26:40
We have his typewriter from there. And we even have the red phone. It's a red phone.
26:44
Is that right? That would sit on his desk, and that was the phone he used when
26:47
he made calls. And we even have one of his couches.
26:50
When the couch was delivered, we thought, well, who's going to want to come
26:53
and see a couch? Oh, everybody.
26:55
People make more comments about this couch. They say, well, that was a couch
26:58
that was in Fulton Sheen's office in his apartment.
27:01
And so people love to see things like that. So sometimes it's really just the
27:05
excitement of seeing things that were so intimately connected to Sheen himself.
27:08
But we also have memorabilia about so many of the different places he visited
27:12
and the recollections that people shared and the memories that they had of Sheen
27:16
traveling to this place or that place and the impact that he had really worldwide.
27:20
And so there are so many different ways in which there are elements you can
27:24
identify or that you can see.
27:26
Even from the canonical investigation, we've got some photos from the investigations.
27:29
We got the stamps and the seals, all of those.
27:32
I mean, some of that's the formality involved in the process,
27:35
but I think people are kind of fascinated with that.
27:37
It's a process when you're all done, you have to get red ribbons and you have
27:40
to get wax and you have to melt the wax and you have to put the seal into the wax.
27:44
And it's very almost medieval looking sort of the way that we do these things.
27:48
But that's the custom behind that.
27:51
And it's an important part of the process. And I think people love to see anything
27:54
that's connected with Sheen because it just gives them a feel of being personally
27:58
present and participating.
27:59
And it's going to be a phenomenal thing for families. Can you imagine?
28:02
I mean, there's not going to be this isn't just for young kids or for senior
28:06
citizens. You could bring the entire family there, get a whole experience.
28:08
Are you thinking that there's going to be...
28:11
Will you have a place where people can eat? Will there be meetings? I don't know.
28:16
What are some of the other visions? Some of these things will be prepared.
28:19
There definitely will be some facilities there where we know that if people
28:22
are staying there for a while, that they may need to have a place where they
28:26
can have something to eat so they can enjoy the entire day. But you mentioned families.
28:30
And right now, we've had some of the people who have been devoted to Sheen who
28:34
have put together a family day.
28:35
They've done this for a couple of years in a row, and it's usually been over the summer in July.
28:40
So I don't, I'm not sure about schedules, you know, coming up,
28:43
but if they've done as they've done in the past, I mean, every summer there's
28:46
been a Fulton Sheen Family Day.
28:47
And it's been a very enjoyable, a very fantastic event.
28:52
And it's one in which some of the people who have been most devoted to Sheen
28:55
have put together different activities that would bring young people in.
28:59
Because sometimes I think the things that people talk about with Sheen,
29:03
they say, well, who's going to care about Sheen? because everyone who remembers
29:06
him from Life is Worth Living, well, they're all, you know, older now.
29:10
So young people, they never have a memory of seeing him on television.
29:14
But that doesn't mean that they're not still fascinated with him.
29:16
And I think as younger people, and even children, as they learn about Sheen,
29:21
they're just as fascinated.
29:22
So it doesn't, even if you don't have a living memory of him being on television.
29:26
He's still an influential figure and a very inspirational one.
29:29
And so they have all sorts of activities where even the little kids can kind
29:33
of, They can kind of dress up like you were the archbishop.
29:36
You think about him on television and you see him with his capa mania,
29:40
with his ferriola, with the cassock.
29:43
And there's something not only about the figure that you could see when you
29:47
just see him on television, but also his own, just the personal intensity of it.
29:52
That he had, those piercing eyes that people so often talk about.
29:56
And so even to have young people kind of feel like they can kind of be a part
29:58
of like standing in front of a camera and recording themselves on something
30:01
and kind of, you know, kind of reenacting what Sheen would do.
30:04
So the Sheen Family Day every summer.
30:07
So we've done that that one time. And it really is just a fascinating time.
30:10
We get hundreds of kids, lots of families who come out for that event. It's really special.
30:14
And the kids will always remember that. As long as they live,
30:17
they'll remember doing something like that. The other thing I wanted to ask
30:20
you about, too, you know, you mentioned maybe people don't know who he is or
30:24
if they're young, they've never seen him. But, you know, people don't.
30:29
A lot of people haven't seen Elvis. They still love Elvis's music.
30:33
And, you know, I think this is so cool that you're doing this.
30:37
One thing I wanted to ask you about the when you when you come down to creating
30:41
a center like this, where did you even start?
30:44
How did you I know you talked about do you need funding for something like this?
30:49
I mean, how there what can we do? Yeah, no, there definitely is a,
30:53
there is a drive that's on, we are looking at actively fundraising in order
30:57
to make that a realistic possibility.
30:59
There have been many different donors that have gotten on board already and
31:03
have already pledged millions of dollars to make this successful.
31:06
I know that we will need to continue to fundraise, not only to complete the
31:10
work that's there, but we also want to make sure that it can be sustained.
31:13
So part of the fundraising is to make sure that we've got the operational funds
31:16
in order to staff the building appropriately and continue things going.
31:20
So we direct everyone to visit CelebrateSheen.com.
31:23
CelebrateSheen.com, okay. And that really is the best place to go.
31:26
You can learn about what the plans look like.
31:28
You can see some of the information, the promotional information that we had
31:31
about what it will be like to remake Spalding Institute to preserve the legacy
31:34
of Spalding, to preserve that high school building that Sheen was in.
31:39
And so people are welcome to contribute to the Sheen experience.
31:42
And they're also welcome to contribute to the foundation.
31:44
The Sheen Foundation is, in terms of contributions there, those are going to
31:47
help provide for and pay for the beatification, which we hope we'll be able
31:51
to announce very shortly.
31:52
Yeah, very shortly. If you just tuned in, we're talking to Monsignor Jason Gray.
31:59
About everything with Archbishop Fulton Sheen.
32:02
And one of the things I wanted to ask you about, you mentioned his,
32:06
what was he like in high school?
32:08
You know, we don't hear about that. I'm sure you researched this,
32:12
and you said he was a valedictorian, but what kind of a—,
32:16
A kid was he? He was, so he grew up in El Paso, Illinois. I always have to say,
32:20
now here, you would understand.
32:22
When I'm speaking somewhere else, I say El Paso, they think Texas.
32:25
So I just have to say El Paso, Illinois. So a very small town.
32:29
His parents were, you know, so very rural. He realized, I think very early on,
32:34
that he did not really want to work on a farm or anything like that.
32:38
So eventually he came, but his family moved to Peoria.
32:41
And so that's where he was able to attend the Cathedral Grade School and then
32:44
eventually Spalding Institute.
32:45
And even then, I think he was a very academic young man.
32:49
And there was, I think, a lot of, that was something that was really important
32:53
to him. So he really wanted to excel.
32:55
For him, education studies were really critical and very important.
33:00
So, I mean, obviously, as being a valedictorian of his class.
33:03
And there were different times he would talk in his autobiography about some
33:06
of the things he would do about really showing that he was, you know,
33:09
that he always wanted to be at the top of his class. But there was also,
33:12
as he moved on from high school, he ended up going to St. Vider's College in Bourbonnais.
33:17
And at one point, then he was able to obtain a special scholarship that was
33:23
going to pay for whatever further education he wanted to have.
33:27
It was going to allow him to get a doctorate or to do all these things.
33:30
And that was really a point of pride for him. But at the same time,
33:33
he was speaking with some of the priests that were there, and there was a Fr.
33:37
Bergen that he spoke with.
33:39
And Fr. Bergen was telling him, he says, Fulton, you know where you're supposed
33:43
to be, meaning you're supposed to be in seminary. You know that.
33:46
And so he was told at an early point, he says, so this scholarship,
33:50
which he was so proud of, he says, Fulton, let it go.
33:53
So give up the scholarship and go where you're supposed to go,
33:56
which is the seminary. You know where you're supposed to be there.
33:59
So that's where you should go. Now, he did. He did. And this is one of those
34:03
moments at which I think there was a kind of a sense of real trust that Fulton
34:07
was giving himself over to the Lord and trusting that the Lord was going to take care of him.
34:11
So he ended up then going to St. Paul Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.
34:15
And then he was ordained after that. And it was after that that then the church
34:20
released him, that the diocese released him to do further study.
34:23
And he ended up going to Louvain in Belgium and studied there and in Rome.
34:28
And so he ended up getting not only a doctorate, but kind of a super doctorate,
34:32
a degree that they call the, I forget, they have a special name for the doctorate that he got.
34:38
And so he ended up under the church getting more education than he could ever
34:42
have imagined, but it was because he gave up his own will.
34:44
He gave up that first scholarship in order to do what the Lord wanted and then
34:48
ended up becoming one of those brilliant minds. for the church.
34:52
So that's a little bit. But then even after he got that degree.
34:56
Then he ended up coming back to the diocese because his bishop called him back.
35:00
He says, okay, well, I'm ready to go teach.
35:02
But the bishop at the time said, no, I want you to go to St.
35:04
Patrick's Parish in Peoria. So an inner city downtown parish.
35:08
And he was told there to work there as a parochial vicar for a year,
35:11
which he did. He was very successful there too.
35:13
But the bishop said he was just testing his obedience. He wanted to make sure
35:17
he was going to obey. I need it.
35:18
I'm shocked because, you know, when you were talking about him getting this
35:22
great scholarship, I thought, oh, he used that for the seminary. No, he just gave it up.
35:26
That's a big trust in God right there. Wow.
35:30
If you're just tuning in, you're listening to Catholic Conversations on Catholic
35:34
Spirit Radio. Today we're talking all things Fulton Sheen.
35:38
Monsignor Jason Gray is a fascinating guest, and he's with us,
35:41
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38:13
Welcome back to Catholic Conversations on the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
38:17
I'm Stan Ketzig. Before the break, we were talking to Monsignor Jason Gray.
38:21
We are going to continue to talk to him. He has been a fascinating guest today.
38:25
We're talking all about Fulton Sheen, our newest saint.
38:29
Is he the only—I know he's not quite there. We just about got him over the edge.
38:34
Is he going to be our only saint from Illinois that we've ever had? Oh, from Illinois.
38:38
The one thing that we look at with Sheen's cause is we bring up,
38:41
he would be the first native-born bishop saint.
38:46
Okay. So, because we've had other U.S. bishops, but not native-born.
38:50
We've had other Americans, other native-born Americans, but this would be the
38:54
first time that we would have a native U.S.
38:57
Bishop to be beatified or canonized. So, that would be the claim to fame there.
39:01
So in Illinois, the cause of Augustus Tolton is probably another famous one.
39:05
And so Augustus Tolton would also
39:08
have roots in Illinois. I think it was technically born in Missouri, but.
39:12
And Illinois is very much associated with the life of Augustus Tolton as well
39:15
as the life of Fulton Sheen.
39:17
When we were talking before the break, you were talking about the things that
39:20
are going to be going on at the center.
39:22
And I was just thinking, you're investigating five miracles right now.
39:27
Would it ever be possible to have like a miracle weekend or conference where
39:31
we could have those miracles show up?
39:34
Is that a thought? Well, there's a little problem.
39:38
When it comes to the Holy See, there are some norms about these things.
39:43
So we have to be cautious about anticipating the Holy See. So the Holy See is
39:47
the one, it's up to the Holy Father to make decisions about who to venerate.
39:50
So we're discouraged from getting into too much detail about specific miracles
39:56
until and at such time that they're approved.
39:59
So the miracle for beatification, for example, now the Holy Father has approved that.
40:03
That was confirmed by Pope Francis in 2019.
40:06
And so I'm certainly free to talk about that. And we can share information about
40:10
that. If you'd like to talk about that first miracle, because we've talked about
40:12
that before, that's beautiful. There's a whole story on that.
40:15
Would you like to give it quickly? So that case had to do with the child that was born in 2010.
40:21
And at the time the child was born, it was a home birth, according to the plans that the family had.
40:25
And everything seemed to be good. But once the delivery took place,
40:29
they discovered the child was not breathing. So there's no heartbeat or respiration.
40:33
Because it turned out that the umbilical cord had nodded, unfortunately.
40:36
And so there was a lack of blood supply as the child entered into the birth
40:40
canal and was delivered. So there was no heartbeat or respiration.
40:43
And so the family prayed, the family, the child was baptized.
40:46
They began CPR to try to revive the child, which, and he did not.
40:50
But because they were out in the country, it took time for an ambulance to come.
40:54
And so there was 20 minutes at home before the ambulance got there.
40:57
And then the ambulance was working on the child.
41:00
And then they took him to OSF St. Francis Medical Center.
41:03
In Peoria. And so there was about 20 minutes where the ambulance was in the
41:06
process of transferring the child and still no heartbeat or respiration.
41:10
And then in the emergency department at OSF, in the hospital,
41:14
they were working on the child.
41:15
So all told, nobody really knew at the time until they put the timeline together,
41:19
that 61 minutes had passed before, between the time of the birth and then the
41:23
time that the child regained heartbeat or respiration.
41:26
And so not only was that, just to survive that is remarkable,
41:29
but also to survive it really without any appreciable bearing damage,
41:33
you know, or any, any, any abnormality.
41:36
And that was, and that was the miracle. That was, uh, when it was evaluated
41:39
in Rome, it turns out there was a little bit of a debate about whether this
41:43
was considered first class miracle or third class miracle. They technically
41:46
make distinctions about the classes.
41:48
What's the difference between the classes? If you, if you have just a healing,
41:51
you know, from if, you know, so you're sick and you're, you have a healing,
41:54
you know, not to make light of this, but those miracles are a dime a dozen.
41:58
And that's third class. Okay, that's right.
42:00
Pardon me for saying it that way, but I mean, a miracle's a miracle.
42:04
But then you get, when you get to first-class miracles, you're talking about
42:07
something that is like metaphysically impossible, something that's a substantial change.
42:11
So, you know, if you talk about the multiplication of miracles,
42:15
The multiplication of the loaves, for example, metaphysically impossible.
42:20
Also, but then also in addition to that, the raising of the dead.
42:23
Okay, so if you're just healed from an illness, that's one thing.
42:26
But if it's the dead come back to life, that's first class.
42:30
So you heal from something, third class, raise the dead, first class.
42:34
So the question was, was this a healing, an ordinary healing,
42:40
or was this actually a resuscitation, meaning a raising of the dead?
42:43
And that would be, that's the distinction between third class and first class.
42:46
And that was, there was a little bit of debate within the congregation when
42:50
they were debating that.
42:52
But that's, anyway, that's how significant this miracle really stands out,
42:56
that it was right on that dividing line.
42:57
Amazing. So the miracle is approved and then, you know, here we are.
43:02
It's going to be very soon that we're going to be able to, right now, this will be running.
43:05
We may have had the information coming out. We're taping this right now.
43:08
The information may come out that the sainthood will take place.
43:11
The foundation really has never, the Diocese Superior, Bishop Jenke,
43:15
Bishop Tilke, we have never stopped promoting the cause.
43:19
And so there was, and I should probably say a little something about this.
43:21
In 2019, we thought we were going to have the beatification.
43:24
And then things were paused, and
43:26
part of that had to do with some concerns that were raised at the time.
43:29
And in all fairness, I'll just say something about that, that in the state of
43:32
New York, there was a tremendous amount of pressure that the church in New York
43:36
was under because they were beginning to investigate past allegations of sexual abuse.
43:41
The Diocese of Rochester was declaring bankruptcy, and the Attorney General
43:44
was going to start an in-depth investigation into all of the different dioceses in New York.
43:49
And at the time, and in all fairness to the bishops there involved,
43:52
they didn't know what was going to come out.
43:54
They just knew that there was going to be this thorough investigation and everything
43:57
was going to be reexamined.
43:59
Nobody knew if something was going to come out of the woodwork from the long
44:02
past about, you know, maybe the way she handled a particular case.
44:06
You know, we had done our investigation. We could show that there was no evidence
44:10
of any wrongdoing on Sheen's part, even the difficult cases as bishop that he
44:14
had to deal with, with priests who had to be removed.
44:17
We could show that he handled them in a way that was really proper,
44:19
a way you'd expect bishops to handle them today.
44:21
He had handled them appropriately back then. But the bishops at the time,
44:26
especially in that part of the country, I think were fearful that no one knew
44:30
if maybe something was going to come out that we had not heard of,
44:33
maybe something that we were unaware of.
44:35
So at the time, the Holy See said, it just seems prudent to wait.
44:40
When it comes to the Vatican, the causes of saints can be investigated for centuries even.
44:46
I mean, sometimes you have people—there's never a rush there.
44:49
I think the Holy See wants to always get it right.
44:52
So I understand that there was a delay, and that might have been prudent at the time.
44:57
But in any case, all of those things have run their course. Rochester is emerging from its bankruptcy.
45:02
Nothing has come forward, so there's really no reason to delay.
45:05
So we've been continuing to engage with the different bishops involved and with the Holy See.
45:10
And so some of this has been kind of behind the scenes, but everything that
45:13
we've heard, all of the communications we've had have been positive.
45:16
And so we have no reason to doubt that I think things are going forward.
45:19
In fact, we're quite optimistic about things in the near future.
45:22
So we are looking forward to positive news about a beatification and hopefully very soon.
45:26
Every time you say near future, there's a gleam in your eye and a little smile.
45:30
You might know something that you can't say.
45:32
That's all I'm saying. We're just waiting for word from the Holy Seas.
45:35
You know, you are fascinating, Monsignor.
45:36
I want to find out, are you going to write a book on all of your findings?
45:39
I mean, this information comes flying out of you.
45:42
If I were writing right now, I'd have cramps in my hands trying to figure out
45:46
everything you're putting together.
45:48
You have so much information. You've got to
45:51
Have you thought about it? Sure. Maybe a book. Well, I was fortunate enough
45:55
to be able to work on my doctorate in canon law, so I did have to write a thesis.
45:58
Now, this is mind-numbingly boring for anyone who wants to really delve into that.
46:03
So I actually wrote about the devil's advocate, so that's the one thing that may sound interesting.
46:07
Wow. So I did actually write on that, but that's more in an academic sense,
46:10
and that's fine. And I did that for the doctorate, which I enjoyed very much.
46:15
But the foundation itself, one of the things we've been doing is we've been
46:18
going through all of those interviews. I mentioned Monsignor Sozman that he
46:21
interviewed those hundreds of witnesses.
46:24
We've been working through the Positio, all of the testimony that was gathered together.
46:29
And we're pulling out some of those best stories because this is more,
46:33
not in an academic sense, but more in just kind of a devotional or a biographical
46:36
sense, in pulling out some of the stories about Sheen that were part of the
46:41
recollections and the testimony of so many witnesses.
46:43
So we're hopeful as the foundation to be able to pull something together there.
46:46
And perhaps if we, there's a lot of work to do, and unfortunately,
46:49
we're too few people and there's too much work to do, and so we have to find the time.
46:53
But hopefully we might be able to put something together. It would be a compendium
46:56
of the recollections, the memories, the stories that people brought to bear
47:01
when they were testifying about Sheen.
47:03
And we'd love to publish something like that. I think that would be fascinating.
47:05
And I bet you people would love to know the whole process, too. This is just great.
47:10
When you think about Sheen now, we've talked a little bit about his life.
47:13
Tell me a little bit about his humor. He had some, he was just a funny guy.
47:18
There were so many times at which he would be self-deprecating.
47:21
And that was the type of thing.
47:23
It's his humor was oftentimes it was directed against himself.
47:26
And he even talked about that in his biography, that this is one of these ways
47:30
in which you can bring people along.
47:32
You can you can people are going to be more receptive to what you have to say.
47:36
And sometimes when you think about academics, so he got the aggregate degree.
47:40
So that's this fancy degree that he got. And I think we've all probably met
47:44
academics or people with too many
47:46
letters behind their names and too many degrees who are as dry as dust.
47:51
So if you get me talking about my doctorate, I'm going to bore you to tears
47:55
with that information. I can't imagine.
47:57
And so Sheen was as educated as anybody, but he was not dry the way that you
48:01
might think of an academic or an egghead or something like that.
48:04
But instead, he was really quite personable. And I think some of this is because
48:08
he wasn't really, I mean, at one time, I think academics was really an important part of his life.
48:13
But I think he grew to understand that his relationship with Jesus Christ was so much more important.
48:17
So when he speaks to people, he's not talking as an academic or theoretician.
48:22
He's speaking in a very personal way with people. And I think the humility that
48:26
comes through, I mentioned humility earlier, the humility that comes through
48:29
in the self-deprecating humor that he had.
48:31
So he has a hundred different little anecdotes but
48:34
I mean he was talking I listened to one recently that was talking about him
48:37
he was going to go to talk about how to get to heaven he was going to go to
48:40
the hall the main hall in this town and he was asking for someone for directions
48:45
how do I get to this hall and he says well I'm going to talk about how you get
48:47
to heaven so he said well would you like to come along and he says well how
48:50
are you going to tell me how you get to heaven you don't even know where the hall is.
48:54
So Eddie has a million examples like that so great stories and in his lifetime he was
49:01
He was, I don't want to say he was on the cocktail party circuit,
49:05
but he was loved by everybody.
49:08
I mean, he showed up at a lot of places that you wouldn't expect a religious
49:12
man to necessarily be invited to.
49:15
Can you tell us a little bit? He got the Emmy, for example. And so he was,
49:19
you know, he associated with different people who were in media,
49:21
with different people who were in television.
49:24
So there was, and doing the work of the missions that brought him into communication
49:27
with a lot of different people. he did. There was a clip on YouTube.
49:30
You can see him. He did What's My Line. I was telling Ann about that today.
49:34
And that was a fascinating thing in which he answered questions and they figured out who he was.
49:38
Yeah, that was the big story back then. But one of the things that I think distinguished
49:43
him is sometimes we think, so I talked about academics, but what about people
49:46
who are like famous people?
49:47
So a lot of times I think when we see famous people, we think,
49:50
well, they're so important. They're so elevated above everyone else.
49:55
So they're not going to care about some common person. They're not going to
49:59
care about the average person.
50:01
They circulate in much more important circles with important people,
50:05
with wealthy people, with politically powerful people.
50:08
But Sheen had a distinction, though, that I think was different from so many
50:12
other people in media or in television in that he was so...
50:16
Present and so personally available, even to the common man.
50:20
And so, he would tell stories about, you know, meeting a cab driver or an average
50:25
person on the street, and he could have a conversation with any of them and
50:28
would give them his time as much as he would to those who are supposedly powerful
50:31
or those who are important.
50:33
And I think it's because he had that capacity, really, and a desire,
50:37
a sincere desire to reach out, to bring Jesus Christ to whomever,
50:40
even if it wasn't a quote-unquote unimportant person.
50:43
But it was because he was so personally present that I think it made him so
50:46
effective on television.
50:47
Because he was not trying to talk down. You never felt like he was talking down to you.
50:52
He was always speaking in a language that was accessible.
50:55
Even though he would talk about very deep things, he was always speaking in
50:58
a way that was so accessible to people. And that's what made him,
51:00
I think, an effective communicator. It was fantastic.
51:03
You know, as we start to wrap up,
51:04
what's the first immediate step that listeners can take to help you out?
51:08
And are you looking for volunteers on top of donations?
51:13
Or tell us what Yeah, the most important thing really right now is we just point
51:17
everyone to CelebrateSheen.com because everything that you would need to know
51:20
or that you would want to find out about the cause is available there.
51:23
We encourage people to sign up for the newsletter.
51:26
This is part of a way of being informed, especially through email or through our mailing list.
51:31
So people are plugged in there and they receive our newsletter and our mailings.
51:35
We will keep you informed. So as soon as we have news about beatification.
51:38
We keep people informed about how the foundation is developing or the Spalding
51:43
Institute, the Sheen Experience building.
51:46
And we encourage people if they're able to do whatever donation they can make.
51:50
Sometimes we get people to just offer just a small amount of money because it's what they have.
51:54
But all of those donations add up, whether for the foundation to support the
51:58
beatification or for the Sheen Experience to support that new building.
52:01
So we're happy to receive the support of the faithful, you know,
52:05
really throughout the world.
52:06
We get people who are very generous and very excited and very happy to learn
52:11
more about these things.
52:12
And then when he becomes a saint, will there be this incredible, huge mass somewhere?
52:18
Any idea what's going to happen? We look forward to these things.
52:21
So the thing with the beatification, and so just briefly, I know we're up against
52:25
time, but there have been four different beatifications in the United States.
52:28
2014, there was a beatification of Miriam Teresa Damjanovic in Newark,
52:32
and about 2,000 people came to Newark for that. That was small.
52:36
And then Stanley Rother in 2017, people might remember that in Oklahoma City,
52:41
and 20,000 people came to that one.
52:43
And then there was Solanus Casey in Detroit, and that was in 2017,
52:47
and about 60,000 people came to that.
52:49
That was in a stadium, so that was not a civic center, but a stadium, a full stadium.
52:53
And then there was Michael McGivney in 2020, and about four people came to that,
52:58
because that was COVID. Oh, okay.
53:00
Actually, if it wasn't for COVID, Michael McGivney might have been the biggest
53:03
beatification that we'd had
53:05
to that point. Because all the Knights of Columbus would have come out.
53:08
So COVID changed everything, unfortunately. That one was really small.
53:11
But that was in Hartford. That was just done in the cathedral.
53:13
So Sheen, how many people will Sheen get? More than Solanus Casey?
53:16
More than Salon Rother? Oh, I don't think so. Well, we'll see.
53:18
So we have to figure out, you know, so what's the best place to do that?
53:22
So if we get the permission to move ahead with the beatification,
53:25
then we're going to be looking at a location. We want to be able to accommodate
53:28
the number of people who we think are going to come.
53:29
And then we have to work with the Holy Father is going to name a representative.
53:33
So some cardinal will be delegated to be the celebrant, to celebrate and to
53:37
preside at that ceremony.
53:38
So somehow we have to figure out when the cardinal is available,
53:41
when the space is available, what the right venue is, and one that can accommodate
53:45
the amount of space that we need.
53:46
So that's what we're going to be looking for. So we're looking forward to good news.
53:50
And that just means that we can now start the negotiations to try to figure
53:54
out the date and the time. and that will be announced at some later point.
53:57
I haven't been an altar boy in about 55 years, but if you need one,
54:01
I'm ready to put everything back on.
54:04
Just for this occasion, okay? We might have a few seminarians that might rank
54:07
a little bit ahead of you on that one. I think so.
54:09
Well, I just want to say you've been fascinating today. Thank you so much for
54:13
coming out here on this cold, cold day with some warm, warm news about Fulton
54:19
Sheen. This has been a beautiful conversation.
54:21
Remember, go to CelebrateSheen.com And anything else that we need to tie in
54:27
that I forgot, because I've been all over the place today, just fascinated by this conversation?
54:32
You know, if Sheen was going to say anything, I think he would talk about the
54:35
Eucharist and the Blessed Mother.
54:36
And so I just leave with that, that one of the things that characterized Sheen's
54:40
life is that he made that daily Eucharistic holy hour.
54:42
And there was no other relationship more important to him than the relationship
54:46
with his Blessed Mother.
54:47
So if there's anything that people can do, if you want to follow the example
54:50
of Sheen, you might not be able to be on radio or television.
54:53
You might not have the gifts of being a great evangelist, or you might not be
54:57
powerful enough to kind of influence people in different ways.
55:00
But everyone can go and make a holy hour in front of the Blessed Sacrament,
55:04
and everyone can pray to the Blessed Mother.
55:05
And if you do that, you're listening to the best of what Sheen had to offer.
55:09
Monsignor Jason Gray, thank you so much. You have been a fascinating guest.
55:13
You have made my day, and I'm sure the person sitting behind the board who has
55:17
been smiling for the entire hour, who I can't mention the name of,
55:20
was really, really happy that you were here today.
55:22
And that kind of brings us to the end of today's Catholic Conversations.
55:26
My thanks again to Monsignor Jason Gray.
55:29
He's been phenomenal. I want to remind everybody to go to give that website one last time.
55:35
CelebrateSheen.com. CelebrateSheen.com. It's my hope that our discussion today
55:39
has offered not just food for thought, but a spark of encouragement for your faith journey.
55:43
Remember, our faith is a living conversation with God, with the church, and with each other.
55:48
If you missed any part of today's show and you want to revisit our conversation,
55:51
you can find it on our podcast at catholicspiritradio.com.
55:56
Thank you again for spending this time with us on Catholic Spirit Radio.
55:59
I'm Stan Ketzig, and I really appreciate you being with us. tune in every day
56:05
because we've always got something positive and something beautiful coming through the airwaves.
56:09
And it's an honor to be able to broadcast for you and it's an honor to be able
56:13
to bring the Word of God to you.
56:15
And let me just ask you, Monsignor, while I got you, can I just have one quick prayer?
56:19
Sure. I know I'm stretching it out a little bit, but I forgot to ask you. Sure.
56:24
So you can pray us out. Oh, sure. In the name of the Father,
56:26
the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Almighty God, we ask you to lead us closer to
56:30
your Blessed Mother because she always points us to your Son.
56:32
We ask that everything that we do might be for your honor and glory.
56:35
We ask this through Christ our Lord.
56:37
Amen. Amen. Lord be with you, and may Almighty God bless you,
56:40
the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
56:41
You've been listening to Catholic Conversations. Download our podcasts at catholicspiritradio.com.