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What If the Tree of Life Was Jesus All Along? · Todd's World

• Todd: Welcome everyone to beers with Jesus Todd's world carries with me per use. How's it going Carrie? Happy Sunday to you Yo, It's Carrie: Hello. Good, happy Sunday. We're recording on Sunday. So happy Wednesday to everyone else. Todd: Yeah, you guys get it on Wednesday. Congratulations. We're recording on Sunday. You should have gotten, just so you know, we do the wildly opinionated news hour. We have two podcasts on Todd's world. The wildly opinionated news hour drops on Tuesdays. Beers with Jesus drops on Wednesdays. Yeah. Wildly opinionated news hour pretty much lives up to its height. It's the news of the day. Kerry pushed through yesterday. You feeling a little better today? Starting to get a little better every day. Yeah. ⁓ Yo, It's Carrie: Pretty faithfully. Sick or dead, we are here. Todd: And then beers, we just walked through stories of the Bible and we started with Mark with the gospel of Mark and we went all the way through it. And then we went through acts, which was a continuing story of Jesus, the apostles, Jesus, the early church. And now we're going all the way back to the beginning to Genesis. And we started with Genesis one in the past two weeks. Pretty good. And this week we're in Genesis two. So, ⁓ and I had, I had asked Carrie. And I asked some other friends of the show, people you guys would recognize, people we've had on. I had ⁓ Carrie's mom, my aunt Nancy, who's always, I asked her this question and I asked Pastor Darrell and Trevor, cousin Trevor, who was on with us for the last ⁓ Life West critique, I think was the last one we did with Trevor, which was fun. ⁓ Will was nicer about that, by the way, to me last time he was here. I guess he did listen to most of it. Yo, It's Carrie: Hey Trevor. Mm-hmm. Todd: He was like, you guys weren't too hard on him. You're pretty good. You made some good points. So, ⁓ when I had asked, and this what I asked you, I asked you to talk to your boys about it or whichever boy you get a hold of. So were they? And what I wanted to know, and we could start with you, Kerry, and you can start with them or whatever, and then we'll read some of the others. I was just curious. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I got answers from both of them and I'm glad I did. They were very different. Yes. Okay. Todd: What do people think if you took the, the, the creation story kind of Genesis creation slash fall, however you want to think of it, like how would you encapsulate it in just, you know, kind of a short paragraph or something like what's your under what's people on people's understanding of what the actual story is, is what I was interested in. I was, I was just curious once I asked everybody if, if we were all kind of the same or if we're not, you know what I mean? I was just curious what people think of it. So what'd you come up with with Alexander and ⁓ Patrick? Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Right. ⁓ So, okay, so I just to clarify, thought that yeah, because you were talking about the fall, I thought you were asking about the creation of man. Okay, I didn't go from day one. went, we talked, okay. Todd: That's fine. That's okay. However you want to do is fine. I mean, I think you're getting it to the same basic. That was kind of what I was after. You were right. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: Patrick's was... Yeah, Patrick... Okay. I mean, I was like, I think that's what you're asking, because that's where we are. But Patrick and I approached it the same way, kind of chronologically. ⁓ He said, said, meaning God placed his first human creations, Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden, an earthly paradise. Todd: Okay, meaning what? Mm-hmm. Yo, It's Carrie: He commanded them to eat from anywhere in the garden except the tree of knowledge. But Eve was tempted by a snake into eating an apple from the tree. She shared it with Adam. And when God found Adam and Eve hiding their nakedness, they were banished from paradise for having disobeyed him. that was similar to the way I would have answered. was, that was Patrick. And that's like kind of, cause you said like kind of the plot. You were like, summarize the plot. And I, I would have said that too, except I would, you know, I said he, I would have said he created Adam. He then didn't want Adam to be lonely from, from Adam. He created Eve. They were, they had everything they needed, but Todd: That was Patrick or Alexander? That was Patrick. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Supply, you're 100 % right. Yo, It's Carrie: this one tree they were told not to eat from. Yeah, then Eve was tricked into eating from it ⁓ by the snake, by the serpent. And ⁓ I believe the promise was that they would be godlike. I think that they would know they would have all of his wisdom if they ate from the tree. so, ⁓ yeah, and then so they disobeyed. You know, she brought she did it, then she got Adam to do it and then they were then banished for their right. Then they were banished for disobeying. okay. His was different in his just his approach to it. And again, I think they were both just trying to figure out what you were asking. And I tried to keep it as clear as possible. Todd: Hmm. With her feminine wiles. ⁓ Yeah. But Alexander was a little different in how he thought of it. Well, that makes sense. It was a little open-ended. I just thought, we'll take what we get and we'll throw them together and see how it happens. Yo, It's Carrie: tried to keep it as clear as possible. said, I'm glad you answered differently because it's interesting. Man was created in God's image, therefore only had capacity for good. After being exposed to evil, holiness became a choice and required an active pursuit of God's will. Todd: Hmm. That's interesting. That's really good. I, know, it's an interesting way to look at it and it's a, I'm glad that I, yeah, that's interesting. Read it and say it again real quick. Just so I get it. The so got men were created good, right? Or something. Yo, It's Carrie: I thought that was a very interesting interpretation. I liked it. I liked it too. Mm-hmm. Okay. Sure. Yes, man was created in God's image, therefore only had capacity for good. After being exposed to evil, holiness became a choice and required an active pursuit of God's will. Todd: Okay. Hmm, that's real interesting Yo, It's Carrie: I have not really thought of it in those terms. mean, obviously, saying stuff that we know, yeah, anyway, same way, same impression. Okay. What else did you get? Todd: No, that's real interesting. It's a real interesting way to put it. ⁓ Let's read, hold on. I'm gonna, let's start, well, let's start with Nancy. Let's start with your mom. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Hey mama. Todd: ⁓ And I think I asked her what I texted and probably was the same thing. I think just what's the basic plot of the creation, fall, origin, story of Genesis, you know, if you just kind of summarize it down. Same idea. So this was Nancy's answer, which I thought was good. ⁓ I've always looked at Genesis as the start of our story, but more importantly, it shows us the magnitude of our awesome God. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: His creation is the first miracle in the Bible. To summarize in a few sentences, I would say God creates it all from the smallest, insignificant in our eyes creature to the undeniable amazing galaxies and finally man. He did this for us, inviting us to join in his glory. And then we, Adam and Eve, fail. We accept and believe evil, losing faith in God's promise. So God cast us out to live the life we chose over the one he offered us. The actual creation in Genesis is what I can't get over. The immenseness is overwhelming to me. It gives us a look at how grand our God is, although our human limitations cannot truly grasp. What do think? Yo, It's Carrie: Awesome. Can you read the part about ⁓ after the... Shoot, I lost the words, the cue. It's when they fall. Todd: Ahem. Okay. He did this for us, inviting us to join in his glory. then we, Adam and Eve parentheses fail. We accept and believe evil, losing faith in God's promise. God. Yep. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ there. Yeah, I really like that line. Todd: So I thought that was really good. Beautiful really. It's funny because everybody I asked had a, I mean, it's a beautiful story, but it was kind of a beautiful take you got from everybody. Do you know what I mean? Like it was really, and different because everybody's different. Everybody kind of sees it or processes it a little bit differently. And that was what I wanted. What I wanted was to see, okay, where's everybody at in it? You know what I mean? And ⁓ just a few sentences. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, completely. Mm-hmm. Yes. Todd: And the people, know what I mean? Cause we've got people, they've been hosts and they help and they're all part of the ongoing conversation. So this is Trevor, cousin Trevor, ⁓ who I think, do you say he wants to come on when we do tower babbling? to come on. He said, told us about AI. Remember AI grok. Sorry guys. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Bye. grok in biblical times. ⁓ Todd: I've been grokkin' yesterday. So this is Trevor. Okay, God creates a good world and invites humans into relationship with him. Humans rebel, breaking the relationship and bringing sin into the world. The rest of the story is God's plan to restore that relationship. And then he said, is Genesis the story of how everything was created or is it a story about why everything is broken? I thought that was pretty good too. So Travis was good, had a good perspective. And then Pastor Darrell. Yo, It's Carrie: I love how different these all are. Todd: I know that's what I like, too. Yo, It's Carrie: I didn't expect that really. Okay. Todd: God creates man and woman, so this is Pastor Darrell's quick take. ⁓ God creates man and woman in the image of himself, gives them together privilege to rule and care for a garden with one parameter. Evil comes with a tilted, twisted question which tempts the image bearers to question his word. They eat of the fruit and are unmasked to the reality of evil and immediately change. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay, hey Darryl. Todd: Evil cannot coexist with the kingdom of God, so they are exiled from the garden by God. All of creation outside of the garden is subject to evil. The rest of the book, then he, this was the next text by Darrell, pretty good. The rest of the book is summarily, concisely put by Joni Mitchell. We are stardust. We are golden. We are a billion year old carbon, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. Yo, It's Carrie: Nice. That's funny. Todd: He said, are created, precious and soon to be timeless in the tender arms of God. That was really good, I thought. And then his last thing was, and by the time we get to our woodstock, the mustard seed will have grown to be half a million strong. Pretty good, right? I thought everybody's was really good. I thought your boy and everybody had this kind of, that's all I kind of wanted. I just wanted like, okay. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, that's great Todd: Let's throw some summaries out there. And Kate had kind of the same thing. You know, I asked Kate today and she said it was, you know, God created us and then had these two trees and then we fell and then we couldn't live forever. You know what mean? The whole thing, kind of a typical thing. So, but she was just expressing, she wasn't right writing it. found that when people write it, that, that it comes out really beautiful. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Exactly. Yes, I thought so too. And I was going to just, I was just going to ask them and write it down. Cause I thought you were just kind of looking for, you know, like the order of events. ⁓ okay. Gotcha. Todd: I expanded it after I sent it to you, because I thought I sent it to you and then I started thinking about it and I thought I'd like a few more takes on it. So then I'm texting people and that's who I texted. I texted our buddy Will too, but he was down with kidney stones yesterday so he wasn't up to the task. So here's to Will. Hopefully he's feeling better today and getting over. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Yeah, we. Oh no, not again. I'm going to go, I'm going to send him, I'm going to send him a big water bottle. He needs to be drinking more water. Bless his heart. I'm so sorry. That's, that's the worst. Um, okay. So you didn't hear from him. Well, that, um, that's really, yeah. So that's interesting. Todd: He has he really struggles with he really struggles with kidding stones on and off Yeah No, I didn't hear from him so but I but I, what I wanted was kind of everybody's kind of take. And I knew we'd get some variety. knew cause of who I was asking that I'd get some really good ones. And I did like I got in and, ⁓ and then I wanted to go into it and let's just see what we find. That's what I thought. Let's see, let's see how close it is to the story we've always thought. And maybe it is maybe it's the same exact story. You know what mean? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Woo. Okay. Well, it's funny. Even if it is the same story, feel like just listening to the different perspectives on it that you just read, I feel like there's different layers to. I don't want to say interpretations. That's the wrong way to put it. But just different realizations about what some of those pieces meant to them and to the world. Yes, there you go. Todd: think different revelations. Like God's revealing himself to us and obviously we're different people, you know what I mean? And so he's, Pastor Darrell is gonna pick up a reflection or a refraction off of God's eternality and Nancy's gonna interpret and in ways they're all gonna be just a little different, which is why we need each other probably, right? It's not so we can put on an awesome Sunday show. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. That's great. Todd: It's so that we can really be iron sharpening iron so we can be in relationship with one another and move farther into relationship with God together, right? So that's the whole point. Whatever Sunday show you use to get there to find that community, that's the point of the community, I think, right? So, okay, so listen, I'm gonna read Genesis 2. We're not gonna get into the fall today, but we will next week. ⁓ But we might. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. Definitely. You're going to read today. Todd: We might kind of like get around the edges of it just a little. So I'm going to start in two in verse five, because the first four verses really kind of go with chapter one. I mean, it's the seventh day of creation. We read them with chapter one, kind of makes sense. And I will say this. I don't think we've done justice to any of chapter one. And I don't know that we'll do justice to most of Genesis. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know what? We are, we spent two weeks on chapter one, so I think we're good. And... No. Todd: and I don't think we can do anymore, I think there's something in that seventh day rest that's real important, but we don't have time to get into it, and I'm not sure I've got my head wrapped around it. I just think something with rest is really important to God, and it may be more important than it is us sometimes, you know? So. Yo, It's Carrie: Well, Yeah. Well, if you have a, if you have a revelation about it and you want to talk about it for five minutes in the future, you can go back. It'll still be there. All right. Todd: Well, that's what I figured. We're going to be in Genesis for a while. We can go back and forth and hit some things if we want, you know? Yeah, that's what I figured. So I'm going to start with chapter five, which is Adam and Eve. ⁓ And I'm going to read just to the end of the chapter. So this is Genesis two in the message, which is kind of the only translation of the Bible that's worth much. Just kidding guys. It's the one I like. It's the one that Todd's world uses. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Yep. Todd: Alright, here we go, Genesis 2, 5 in the message. At the time God made earth and heaven before any grasses or shrubs had sprouted from the ground God hadn't yet sent rain on the earth nor was there anyone around to work the ground The whole earth was watered by underground springs God formed man out of the dirt of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life The man came alive a living soul Then God planted a garden in Eden. In the east, he put the man he had just made in it. God made all kinds of trees to grow from the ground, trees beautiful to look at and good to eat. The tree of life was in the middle of the garden, also the tree of knowledge of good and evil. A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there divides into four rivers. The first is named Bishan, It flows through Havala where there is gold. The gold of that land is good. The land is also known for sweet scented resin and the onyx stone. The second river is named Gihon. It flows through the land of Kush. The third river is named Hedekal and flows east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. God took man and set him down in the Garden of Eden to work the ground and keep it in order. God commanded the man, you can eat from any tree in the garden, except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat from it. The moment you eat from that tree, you're dead. God said, it's not good for man to be alone. I'll make him a helper, a companion. So God formed from the dirt of the ground, all the animals of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them. Whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. The man named the cattle, named the birds of the air, named the wild animals, but he didn't find a suitable companion. God put the man into a deep sleep. As he slept, he removed one of his ribs and replaced it with flesh. God then used the rib that he had taken from the man to make woman and presented it to the man. The man said, finally, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. Name her woman, for she was made from man. Therefore a man leaves his father and mother and embraces his wife. They become one flesh, the two of them, the man and his wife were naked, but they felt no shame. Yo, It's Carrie: Good job. Todd: There it is. That's at least that's the part of the story. Just pretty false. So two is, is creation. think, I think the way to think about it is that when, we're reading the six days, seven days of six days of creation, seventh day rest, when we're reading Jenna Genesis one, that's God's, that's creation from God's vantage point. It's, it's the first, his first, it's like, it's like this cosmic panorama that he's painting and Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yes. Todd: And he's revealed, it's his first steps in revealing himself again to his creation and telling them, okay, this is it. This is how it started. Well, but, that's that panorama. That's that wide, vast angle lens. And then what I think is, that's, that's maybe that's the most poetical and the least literal, if that makes sense. That doesn't mean he didn't actually create it. It just means he wasn't trying to tell you how it was all about who. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and what. Yo, It's Carrie: Right, I mean it's so big it's hard to put into words especially by someone who was living during a time when they didn't really even understand what the Sun or the Moon and the stars and all that really were. So it's just so huge. Todd: So then it gets to Genesis 2, and what I think happens is I think God tightens the lens. And so now we're going to get to, okay, this is humanity's perspective, and this is God dealing with the earth and with the life on the earth and with everything else. So to me, it's at this point that I feel like it steps the text, not that the creation days weren't historical per se, but this is the beginning of history. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: Does that make sense? And so then, and, and the first time when I was, when I was going through this yesterday for the first time, I realized the chronology of Genesis one and two don't agree. I never knew that before. I never realized it before. Well, I, I, I started looking at it I'm looking at, when did he make the birds? He made the birds on like day four or five or something. It was day five. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay, sure. ⁓ okay. Okay. yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: Remember he made the fish, the ocean swam in with life and he made all the birds. Then on the sixth day he makes the animals and he makes humans. But from that, from when you read chapter two, it appears like he makes man first and then he begins to make the plants in the trees. And then he forms all the animals out of the dust to the ground and brings them to man. just, it gets, it's a little different perspective on. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, unless this is referring to how he did it when he did it. And then at this point, he's just bringing them to Adam to say, name all of these beautiful creatures that I made the other day. Todd: I think it is. I, my guess is what I feel like is that Genesis one, the point isn't chronology, even though that sounds weird because it's so evening and morning and day. And it seems like this is painting a chronological linear picture for us, but I don't think it is. I think that Genesis two is the chronological order. ⁓ whatever that means, I don't know that it means all that much, but Yo, It's Carrie: No, it's not. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: But it, can affect the story because here's what I'm thinking. Okay. I, you know, I put on my, my novelist hat or whatever. That's kind of how I, the, the, lens that I look through most things is storytelling and whatever. And as I started to read this story, I started to get a little different picture. started see from, from this, it Genesis one kind of ends with the creation of mankind or humanity, which I think is true. It's the pinnacle. Now, once you tighten it up and you get into the details. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Todd: I told Kate this today, she was real happy about it. said, it appears that woman is the pinnacle in the final creation. That's the last one. And God's like, this is it. Right. And, ⁓ but what I thought was interesting is then I've always kind of pictured it like you, like you said, which is God created all these animals and he finally creates man. And then God sets me in the garden. starts bringing all these animals to him to name them and whatever. Yo, It's Carrie: She liked that. ⁓ Mm-hmm. That's funny. Todd: But as I read this, I started to get a little different picture. And I thought, what if the picture is God? God just so overflowing with love, with delight, with just this boundless energy, right? And he creates man and he's just so, I mean, God's love and so relationship is everything to him. And he just can't wait. And now he's in relationship with man. And then after God creates man, God just so ⁓ overflowing with love, with delight, with just this boundless energy, right? And he creates man and he's just so, I mean, love and so relationship is everything to him. ⁓ And he just can't wait. And now he's in relationship with man. And then after God creates man, God's over here and one by one, he's working in the dirt, working in his own little kind of workshop and he makes a cardinal and he brings it to man and he's so excited. God's so, cause I can't imagine God not being excited. And cause I know how I am when I write a good chapter and I feel like if God made a cardinal out of dirt, he'd be like, man, this is cool. And I think he takes it to Adam and Adam's like, damn, that's awesome. God's over here and one by one, he's working in the dirt, working in his own little kind of workshop and he makes a cardinal and he brings it to man and he's so excited. God's so, cause I can't imagine God not being excited. And cause I know how I am when I write a good chapter and I feel like if God made a cardinal out of dirt, he'd be like, man, this is cool. And I think he takes it to Adam and Adam's like, damn, that's awesome. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm. Mm. Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. for this thing. for this thing. Todd: And I picture this being like a one by one, like, like a filling of creation and God just making all of this for Adam and just delighting in Adam's delight and Adam's joy. You know what I mean? And I picture this being like a one by one, like, like a filling of creation and God just making all of this for Adam and just delighting in Adam's delight and Adam's joy. You know what I mean? I don't know how important time is or time wasn't in this particular point pre fall. You know what I mean? I don't even know how relevant it was per se. I don't know if my guess is doesn't seem to me they've Yo, It's Carrie: Sure. Sure. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: Probably not aging at that point. So I just, I don't know. You know what I mean? Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Yeah, and I don't I think you're right. don't think the timing, I don't know you just said, like the time factor of it ⁓ matters so much because even if I don't, I can't picture God like over there kind of crafting a cardinal because I feel like with God, it's like it's a thought. You know what I mean? Todd: Yeah. Well, but it doesn't say that. It says he made them out of the dirt of the ground like he crafted man. Yo, It's Carrie: What I mean is even if it's out of the dirt, I still feel like it's not something like he's working on, like, ⁓ that's not quite right, you know, whatever. whatever the process is, ⁓ even if all of that was already done, he still could be bringing them to Adam and saying, have you seen this one? Like, you seen, you right, Todd: ⁓ yeah, same. Yeah, could be the same idea. Either way it could work. I just had never thought I hadn't ever thought about it from the standpoint of one by one. God's God's creating these and man is almost partaking in this wider creation with God. Yo, It's Carrie: You're picturing him, showing him the animals. Mm-hmm. Todd: Stephen King talks about when he writes how a writer always has an ideal reader in mind. And for Stephen King, it's his wife, which that's a lot of people. Nikki would be my first reader too. And so as you're writing something, and this is what I, it's a creative kind of thing. And so this is how I kind of picture it. So I get a chapter done. Like when I was writing, Leaves of Blue Way, Leaves of Blue Way was the one that came the fastest. ⁓ I did chapter by chapter, I had Nikki read them. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. ⁓ Okay. Okay. Todd: I didn't do that with Insurrection and Witness. I finished the books and then had to read them. with Leaves of Blue Way, I did a chapter by chapter. so every time, and Stephen King talks about this, I know exactly what he's talking about because I do it. You give it to them to read it and they read it and you're kind of watching them. You're thinking, they going to laugh at the right time? Are they going to tear up a little at the right time? Like you're so excited and you're so excited to share it with them. And I got to believe that God was Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right, right, Yes. Todd: more like that than we are. Remember how we talk about God's just more emotive than we are? It's all more. Everything is more with God. Yo, It's Carrie: Right, right. Because everything is, because in the writing or in the case of God's creating, everything has a purpose. Everything has a purpose and you want to see that the response is fitting, like that the response matches what you are, yeah. Todd: Yeah. God's delighting in Adam's delight. You know what I mean? It's the same. It's that creative kind of thing. You could probably picture it when you're writing a poem for somebody or something, or maybe not for somebody, but you just want to get a response. You know what I mean? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. No, I just recently wrote something for my kids and I shared it with them and it was like, yeah, their reactions like meant a lot. Yeah, it was great. I totally get it. Todd: ⁓ yeah. And so I feel like that, I feel like that's the picture more, more than of a, reason I like God down in the dirt is because that seems like God to me all through the whole story. That seems like God to me in my life. seems like God's in the dirt. He's just in it and he's fashioning it and he's forming it and he's going to make something that we think that couldn't ever be anything into his greatest creation. You know what I mean? And so it's that. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah I hear you. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: That part of it that, that I really like, what do you think? What do you see that you really. Yo, It's Carrie: Well, I like that aspect that you just said that he is forming it out of out of nothing. He's forming it out of the animals out of what do you say, out of the dirt, the dirt of the ground, just from the dirt of the ground. Adam, yeah, and then breathe like breathing. It's funny because I don't think of God as having breath, so to speak, but him breathing life into him. Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah, just like man. Yeah. Well, he breathes life into the man, and that's probably that image of God, that kind of spirit soul thing that makes us us, that makes us human. But then he makes, so God, it's not good for man to be alone. I'll make him a helper and a companion. That's what makes me think he didn't, there wasn't a bunch of animals sitting around because God's looking at humanity and he's saying, I can't just have him. He's got, we got to have way more than this. Yo, It's Carrie: is really cool. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: can't just be alone like this. Now it tells the story like God's looking for a companion. And I think maybe that was how God kind of presented it to Adam. But I, of course, God, I think knew all along. He's like, man, wait until he sees what I got planned. it's really cool along the way. You got to see giraffes and elephants and cats and you know what I mean? All this stuff. And then, and he brings them to Adam to name them. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. ⁓ Right. We do see the tiger, man. You're not going to believe your eyes. Mm-hmm. Todd: which seems to be, I've read this before. I'm to go back to Romans nine. It seems like a weird place to go probably to people for this, but Paul says, and this actually, he's quoting Isaiah when he says this. And he says it's in, it's like 21 ish or something. I don't know what it is. Romans nine, 21 or 22. He says, Isaiah maintained the same emphasis. each grain of sand, Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Yeah, totally. ⁓ okay. Okay. Todd: the seashore were numbered and the sum labeled chosen of God they'd be numbers still not names salvation comes by personal selection God doesn't count us he calls us by name arithmetic is not his focus Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay, so the naming of it is important. Todd: That's how important names are to God. And I think that was true with Adam. whatever language it was, probably the original language that we're all going to grow back to. when we get our glorified bodies, you know what I mean? The language, whatever it was in all these, all these animals are going to have the names that Adam originally gave them. I think, I think it's historical at this point. I think Adam and Eve were real people. Yo, It's Carrie: Good night. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: And I think it's historical. I don't think it's just a myth. Now listen, I get the fact that poems and myths are needed and required by God in order for us to approach it at all. And I think it's kind of presented somewhat in this, I, it's, I mean, why would it give the rivers running into it? Why would it give, why would it talk about, and then it runs through this land and the gold and this land is good, if it wasn't real, if it wasn't historical? It, you know? Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. So you know you were talking about how chapter one was in the beginning of two seemed more of like a cosmic, I'm trying remember how you said it, but that this seems more, yeah, and that this seems more real. mean obviously we're looking at like macro versus micro, but I was going to say that chapter one and the very beginning of chapter two, the seven days, Todd: Yeah. It's like a panorama, like this massive painting. Yo, It's Carrie: feel like to me, let me go backwards. Chapter ⁓ two, the creation of Adam and Eve here, feels real, more factual, ⁓ like events actually happening, like you said, more literal. And everything before it seems almost like it's just describing the setting. Yes, like this is, you know, this is where Todd: Mm-hmm. It's like impression. Yo, It's Carrie: Like if it's the beginning of the play, you know, this is the set, the timing, you know, the time period and the mood. Todd: Yeah. It's God revealing himself in the broadest strokes. Maybe something like that. Yo, It's Carrie: Yes. And then all of sudden, then it's like, okay, that's like the background. Not that it's not important. It's really important. The setting in any story is important, but here's the actual story. It's kind of what it feels like. Todd: but here's the character and the story. I like that. No, think you're right in that. I think that's exactly what it's doing. I think sometimes the reason I like that view of God in relationship with man, man almost participating in the creation, delighting in it at the same time, is because I think sometimes the creation story, this is what I was curious, and to be honest, I don't know that it didn't really come across in any of the people that we got stuff from, but. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Todd: They're all pretty smart people, so that probably makes sense. But sometimes I think it can come off a little arbitrary. People can be like, yeah, but why these two trees? Why do do all this anyway if he knew this was going to happen? this, you know what I mean? It just, the whole thing has this kind of arbitrary feel to it. Like God was trying to set up mankind to fail. And I don't think that's how it was. I wonder, because it talks about the animals and talks about the name and the whole thing. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm. Todd: But it talks about, when it talks about the trees, and God took man and he sets him down in the Garden of Eden. So God's bringing order, we talked about that. And then the pinnacle of order, I think the way to think about this is like palace gardens adjacent to the palaces and things like that, of royalty and things like that, that kind of a garden. In other words, not like a vegetable garden per se. Not that there wasn't vegetables or what, you know what I'm saying, but like it's that kind of a, I think we can think of Eden Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. ⁓ right. Now know what you Todd: as this garden is adjacent to Eden where God lives, something like that. Like this is the garden. Right. But it's manicured. Yo, It's Carrie: Oh, okay. That's kind of how I picture it. Yeah, like grounds. It's not a garden like a little, yeah, like a little fenced in area. It's big and it's lush and it's full of all these different things. Todd: Yeah, but man has a purpose. This is what gives mankind his purpose, is to rule and reign, to bring order, to manage, to steward all of creation. He begins it right away with the naming of the animals. mean, if you're naming something, when I name my kid, like I'm in a position of, I don't know, ruling and dominion, but you know what I mean? You're in a position of authority and responsibility in their life. And your responsible form is as much as anything. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Authority. Right. Yeah, that's, I think that's accurate. Yeah. And that's what stewardship means really, right? You're responsible for. Todd: Does that make sense? Yeah, and so I think that's what God's, right out of the gate, God's given man purpose in his life. And then come the trees, right? God commanded the man, you can eat from any tree in the garden, except from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat from it. The moment you eat from that tree, you're dead. Before that, Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. ⁓ the trees. Todd: He talked about the tree of life or was that yeah, the tree of life is in earlier says God planted a garden in Eden in the East He put the man. I don't know why God would plant something in the East when we're supposed to go west Anyway, it's an older beers with Jesus joke guys ⁓ So it says He planted in the East he put the man He had just made in it God made all kinds of trees to grow from the ground trees beautiful to look at and good to eat Yo, It's Carrie: That's a joke, everyone. Todd: And you can almost imagine that too, like these trees are, what's weird is, it taking these trees 40 years to grow? Like that's where the time thing I think, I don't know. I don't know what it means and I don't know what was going on. I pictured these trees kind of growing up fast and God being as excited about the fruit of these trees to give that to him as he was about the animals to name them. Like God's just excited about all of it. He loves to create. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Oh, I know. Imagine tasting a pear for the first time ever. You the first pear ever. Todd: Yeah. And everything we have is fallen fruit. Like who knows what they had then? I mean, they must have fruit that tasted like steaks. Yo, It's Carrie: Good morning. I Todd: So, but this tree of life, he says, the tree of life was in the middle of the garden, also the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What do you think about those? Obviously they're important. What's your perception of what's kind of going on and the part they're playing in this story? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. What's interesting to me is the mention of evil, know, tree of knowledge of good and evil, and also ⁓ death, that if you eat from the tree, you'll die. Because I'm wondering, what does Adam, and Eve for that matter, understand about those two concepts if it's paradise, and they're the beginning of civilization? You know, they haven't lived through Todd: Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: they haven't had evil experiences or experienced death. So I'm curious, I'm just curious what that means to them. I mean obviously, you know, God tells you not to do something and I'm sure they were able to ask questions and whatever. It's just from our perspective that's my question. Todd: what it even meant to him. Is it, this is the point at which it starts to feel maybe a little arbitrary, if that's the right word. Like maybe God's playing a little bit of a game. Or not. Does it not seem that way? I think it does to some people. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ you mean. I... Yeah, mean, I'm sure I think a lot of people ⁓ ask themselves, why is there even this opportunity for this fall? But again, God knew everything. Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yo, It's Carrie: You know, if you created something, if everything is beautiful and perfect, and I wonder if it really comes down to the goodwill or the free will concept. Because if you built this beautiful garden and built this perfect man and woman together and they have everything they need and it's paradise, it's perfection, right? That's our idea of it. Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yo, It's Carrie: Isn't that almost like not giving someone the choice? the choice to obey, the choice to choose God, to do the right thing if you don't even have an option. Todd: Are you, are you, are you circling around the idea that maybe love in relationship can only be love if it's a choice. Yo, It's Carrie: Well, yeah, and I guess I feel like we've talked about it, but maybe it's a good thing to subject to broach here is if God provided everything perfectly for them and they love Him, and what does it really mean if it's never been challenged? It's almost like they don't yet have free will. ⁓ And I know God gave us free will because Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, It's Carrie: our love for him would mean nothing without it. Todd: No, I agree with you. Yo, It's Carrie: So I don't know if that's what this game is about, the trees. Todd: What if this is that, let me give you just what's been bouncing around in my head as, a, as kind of maybe a, ⁓ maybe a meaning of this story. Maybe. and I can't say that I've exactly heard this anywhere. Perhaps I have, and if I have, I'd like to attribute it to whoever it was. Perhaps. I mean, see, I saw this kind of bounces around this, but I don't know if he ever gets here exactly, or if it's just kind of. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: It feels to me like where he's going a lot of the time, you What if the tree, the tree of life, to me, this is what I've been kind of playing around with. The tree of life is Jesus. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Okay. Todd: The tree of life is a perfect metaphor, it's a perfect bookend to the cross. It's two trees, right? But that tree of life also, this is gonna harken back a little bit to multiple conversations we've had about different views of hell. One of the views of hell, which is ⁓ conditional immortality, is that man was not created immortal, which is what I believe. Based on 1 Timothy 6, it says only Yo, It's Carrie: It is, yeah. Okay. Todd: Only God is immortal, essentially, is what it says. I believe the only way that we attain, well, go ahead, Kerry. I saw you wanted to ask something. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Wait, I was going to say, you say that you believe we were created mortal or immortal. Okay. Todd: In other words, man does not have inherent immortality. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay, I mean, you said if you eat from this tree, you'll die, so... Doesn't sound immortal. Okay, just double checking. Thought I misunderstood you. Todd: So doesn't sound like he's immortal. Well, but the reason that people believe in an eternal hell is because they think that souls are immortal. And therefore a soul has to go somewhere. And if it refuses to go with God, it's got to go somewhere. Yo, It's Carrie: The souls are mortal. Okay, I'm sorry. This is bigger than I realized. We need a second. Todd: Mm-hmm. You may be in here to say yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: I need a second with this. Sorry everyone if you're like moving along faster than I am. ⁓ Todd: Hahaha Yo, It's Carrie: No, just, that's really interesting. Todd: I'm looking for... these are the things I'm gonna teach you, I... uh... eventually there's a... I think it's 1 Timothy 6, but you know, it could be 2 Timothy. I'm not the greatest all the time on my references. Uh... man, I gotta pursue life. Okay, here it is. I'm charging you before the life-giving God and before Christ, who took his stand before Pontius Pilate and didn't give an inch. Keep this command to the letter and don't slack off. Our master Jesus Christ is on his way. Yo, It's Carrie: You do really well, I think. You do really well, yeah. Todd: He'll show up right on time. His arrival guaranteed by the blessed and undisputed ruler, high King, high God. He's the only one death can't touch. The NIV is going to say, I think that he's the only one with immortality or something. God is the only one who's immortal. Okay. The way that we enter into life, the way that we enter into mortality is through Christ. That's why you take that little way for every week, right? Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Yep. Mm-hmm. Right. Interesting. Yeah. Todd: It's because it's a repeated continual offering of grace. Is that fair? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. Todd: That was what I saw in the tree of life. I think the tree of life was Adam and eventually Eve's continual feeding off Christ continually. I don't think it's any different than happens to us when we're in Christ. I think we're continually feeding from the tree of life. And because God says at the fall, the I get that from is we're going to get to this next week. But he says after they've eaten the fruit. It says, God said the man has become like one of us capable of knowing everything ranging from good to evil. What if he now should reach out and take fruit from the tree of life and eat and live forever? Never. This cannot happen. In other words, he can't live forever like he is now. Does that make sense? I that's what he says. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Kind of, yeah, I have to get, I have to look forward and read that. Interesting. Todd: So here's what I picture in the garden. This is kind of what I'm exploring. So the tree of life is Christ. And Adam, mankind, Adam, Eve, whoever, the only way we're attaining life is continually coming to Christ. We're continually feeding from Christ. Another way to say that is the tree of life is grace. That's what the Garden of Eden was. The Garden of Eden was life. Yo, It's Carrie: Ahem. Okay. Todd: lived by grace. The problem with that, maybe, is it's hard for grace to be appreciated if sin has never been known. Yo, It's Carrie: Yes. Todd: So, what I picture is I picture this tree of life and I picture, don't know if it's every day, I know if it's once a week, I don't know if it's once a month, like the Baptists do their community, whatever it is. Point is, I think Adam had to continually come to this tree and Eve did too. And I think right next to that tree, or proverbially right next to that tree, was another tree. And that tree was the knowledge of good and evil. What does that mean? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I wonder if that tree was law. That tree, cause if you think about grace and you think about the opposite of grace is law. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Todd: What the tree of life was, Adam and Eve's existence were one of complete dependence on God. And God says, listen, this is all yours, but they aren't really contributing anything. Does that make sense? Like we don't really contribute anything to our own salvation. Jesus does it, right? Yo, It's Carrie: cool. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. No, no, I mean, we're supposed to try to, you know, live well. We're supposed to, right. We're supposed to try to do God's Todd: We're supposed to try to manage well and follow Christ and do well and keep good order in the garden. But we don't have, we aren't sustaining ourselves, right? It's just coming out of the ground. God's just providing for us. We're in communion with God and God's delighting in us and we're delighting in God. But we're not contributing a whole lot. And then what if the other option, what if we thought of the, Jesus said, I'm, Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Right. We can't do this stuff. Todd: The way Jesus said, I'm the door. Whoever knocks on me will find, you I'll come in or whatever. Whoever seeks will find that kind of thing. Whoever knocks, it'll be open. Yo, It's Carrie: Today in Mass, it's the Good Shepherd Sunday. so today he was the gate. Todd: Okay, same idea. Gate would be another one. What if instead of trees, we thought of them as doors? And every time they came to the tree of life, every time they came to that door and knocked, God's there and God's continually giving out life, He's continually doling out grace. It's a continuous, we're just in this continual flow of love and grace from God and that's what we're living in. But the other option, because Eden's not a prison, there's a door to get out. The other option is you can try it on your own. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Todd: You can try this world on your own. You can try to approach God on your own. You can try to make your own decisions. Instead of dependence, you can try independence. And that's the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But God says to him, the second you try that, you're going to die. Does he mean it's like poison and you're going to fall dead? No, I don't think so. What I think he's saying is, I'm telling you, that door doesn't work. That's not going to lead you where you want to go. Yo, It's Carrie: There you go. I think that's a good way of... Mm-hmm. Todd: But, and we're gonna get into this in the fall, something changed. Adam and Eve decided, I kinda wanna see what's out there. Right, or so, whatever it is. Whatever it is. And then. however many, thousand, four or six thousand years later, I can't remember how long it is. When Christ finally comes, another door is opened. Another that we're at, we're offered access through that door to the tree of life once again. And what we enter back into, the kingdom of God, what awaits us there is the same parallel that was in Eden, and we're just continually dependent on God. We're back under grace from law. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Does that make some sense? A little bit. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Yes. Yeah. The law part, the law part I'm struggling with a little bit, but I, okay. I was trying to think, I was feeling like if it's grace, if the tree of life is grace, then the tree of knowledge of good and evil is maybe it's transgression or offense or something, which I am, you know, I see the connection with the law. I'm just trying to think of what. Todd: Okay, let me go back to Romans for you. Go ahead and I gotta find it anyway. Yo, It's Carrie: But independence, but independence is, yeah, that makes sense. So it's kind of like grace and independence. ⁓ Todd: Let me read a little. Independence makes some sense. That's what I thought. When you, when you, when you look at it as independence versus dependence. Yeah. Here's what Paul says about the law in Romans seven. This is verse four ish. ⁓ so my friends, this is something like what has taken place with you. When Christ died, he took that entire rule dominated way of life down with him and left it in the tomb, leaving you free. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Todd: to marry a resurrection life and bear offspring of faith for God. For as long as we lived that old way of life, doing whatever we felt we could get away with, sin was calling most of the shots as the old law code hemmed us in. And this made us all the more rebellious. So the law was brought, and all the law did was make us more rebellious. Right? In the end, Yo, It's Carrie: Gotcha. You're right. Todd: All we had to show for it was miscarriages and stillbirths. But now, they were no longer shackled to that domineering maid of sin, and out from under all those oppressive regulations and fine print, were free to live a new life in the freedom of God. Yo, It's Carrie: Wow. Todd: I just feel like that's the parallel. That's always the parallel. Do you want to try it on your own or are you going to trust God? Are you going to stay in a state of grace? And I wonder is it possible to stay in a state of grace if you've never known sin or was that what God... Was it always... This is the other thing you come to. Was the cross plan B or was it always God's plan? You know what I mean? Was that always the story? Yo, It's Carrie: Knowing you. Right. Right. Todd: that in the center of this story, like I texted you the other day is a cross and God's hanging on it and he calls it love. And we're left to reckon with it. But that's the door back. That's the way back to Eden. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. It's the only, you said it's the bridge that we're offered. Right. You know, I mean, it's, it's weird. It seems like a plan B. I don't like the idea of saying, I kind of struggle with the idea of saying that God had go like a different way than he planned initially. Cause that sounds, it doesn't sound godly. Um, but I was going to say, I feel like, I feel like Noah's arc story is very, you know, is. very much a plan B sort of scenario. It sounds like one. It really does. So I don't know if it's just. Todd: It feels like that. The question is, but if you start with, like you started with, God already knew it all to begin with, right? ⁓ Which I think is true. God knew the end of the story before he ever created. God, in some sense, died for man before he ever made him. In some sense of his eternality. In other words, the overarching view of this story. Now I think once God Yo, It's Carrie: Great. Yeah. Bye. Todd: It's weird with God, because God, not only is he the creator, but he's a character in his own creative story. Yo, It's Carrie: Right, it's so interesting to think of him being there with them. Todd: And not just, now the pinnacle of that is Jesus, and that's where we see it, that's where it all comes to a point. But even before that, God's in his own creation. He subjects himself almost to time as he's dealing with these people. And you know what I mean? And God's, there's a sense in which the character of God is experiencing the story, even while maybe the eternal consciousness of God, do you understand what I'm saying? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Like God's part of it. He's a character in the story and he gets mad and he gets frustrated. Like we see that with Moses and he's like, I'm going to kill him all. And Moses is like, no, think about what the Egyptians will say. Yo, It's Carrie: Is that when Moses is like, wait, if I can find, like if I can find 100 people. ⁓ okay. Sorry. ⁓ cool. I know there's like a lot in here. ⁓ Anyway, that's interesting. Todd: Yeah Well, that was Abraham And that we're gonna get to in Genesis. That's the stories in Genesis. So that'll be fun. But anyway, I just wonder what you thought of that's what's been rolling around in my head is it and is that a little different than we've generally we've Typically thought about it. I don't know maybe Yo, It's Carrie: I think it's different. I've never thought of the tree. ⁓ Actually, reading this, it sounds familiar, but the tree of life, ⁓ I don't remember. doesn't, well, it sounds like you said he references it again later. But I don't feel like that's something that's stuck in my memory. I purposely, because of your question, I purposely didn't read ahead. I was like, I just wanted to. Todd: Yeah. That's good. That's how I like it. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: read it for the first time after how many years, you know? So, but it's, so yeah, I hadn't thought about the tree of life that way. What? Todd: Right. you go, Carrie. I'm playing with my computer and I was like, where'd you go, Carrie? Yo, It's Carrie: I've been right here. Anyway, that is, no, that's really cool. But I hadn't, I haven't thought of it that way. And drawn the parallel to Jesus, Jesus on the cross. ⁓ That's very thought provoking. It makes some sense. Todd: I hadn't ever before either. I'm gonna... Yeah, I wanted something I've been rolling around in my head and listen I this isn't like I'm not like a professional preacher I don't have some professional title and three points to give you It's true, but that's been rolling around in my head that have I Not not it's it because everything I said you could take You could take almost everything everybody else said about their idea of the plot and it fits Yo, It's Carrie: He's not allowed to because he doesn't like workbooks. Boom. trying to remember if you heard this somewhere or something. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Todd: So it's not that it doesn't not fit with Trevor or Daryl or Nancy, it fits with that. But maybe it's a little different perspective on the story than I remember hearing anyway. You know what I mean? And maybe it helps it feel a little less arbitrary. Maybe it helps if you can think of a God who's delighting so much in his creation and is just in love with his creation, but Yo, It's Carrie: Oh, doesn't contradict. It doesn't contradict anything. Right. Yeah. Todd: People say, well then why have this tree anyway? I think the answer is, it's not a prison. You gotta have a door. You can get out if you wanna get out. And that's the way out. You can leave if you wanna leave. I didn't create you to imprison you. I created you to love me, but you can only love me if you choose it. And so there's gotta be an option to leave. And so what it seems like is that God presents this option knowing man's gonna take it. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: Then he spends the entire rest of the story chasing after these people because he loves them that much. And all he wants is his creation back. And he's willing to go to die on a cross and go to hell for them if he has to in order to make it happen. Does that make sense? That's kind of a big overview. I don't know. That's kind of, I wanted to read, I was telling Kerry this. I had yesterday. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Okay. Todd: Saturday after we recorded the Wildly Opinion News Hour, which you should listen to if you haven't we dropped it yesterday and We'd recorded that we record on Saturdays. I got done with that. I have a lot going on It's a nice day out sitting outside enjoying, know, whatever the sunshine and I started get screwing around with Grok, which is X's AI And man, I was in Grok for hours yesterday Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I not ready for it. And I wasn't playing with pictures or anything like that. I was taking podcasts and I was taking clips and I didn't realize I could upload all these links and all these things and Grox given me all this ⁓ kind of background and input and you could do this and you could promote here and this is the path and man you guys are great. The chemistry is great. You just need to get more people listening. Like the whole thing was great but then I had this idea. I thought well you know have if you guys have it go to Todd'sWorld.net. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ my. Mm-hmm. It was cool. Todd: Links to all the podcasts are there, which you're already listening to one of these. You should like this, by the way, and rate it or whatever people do. And tell your friends about it. what I was going to say is that I thought, you know, have, if you go to tobsworld.net, I have five books right now. Two books in the series of insurrection, one book in the series of witness, a novel called Nine Mile Point, and then have my memoir called Leaves That Blew Away. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, thank you for doing that. Todd: And I thought, you know, I got PDFs of all these. Maybe I'll upload one and have ⁓ Grok write me a review. I was not ready for what was coming after that. And I'm going to release these reviews because it's just, I went over them with Kerry. Blew me away. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, they they blow you away. They're really it's very cool. It's very it's very in depth. Todd: They not only are the great reviews, but just the way they do it. And I'm telling you, I did it in 30 seconds. read my whole book and reviewed it and I thought, it knows these characters better than I do. What is going on? Yo, It's Carrie: is great. Todd: So listen, guys, Leave the Blue Ways my memoir. And I'm gonna, I wanna read just a little bit of this ⁓ review to give you a view of it. And then I'm gonna go to this chapter because it talks about exactly what were the Genesis story. And I wanna kinda read that to you. So this says, raw, unflinching and quietly devastating, a faith memoir that actually feels like a storm. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Todd Ailens' Leaves That Blew Away is not your typical polished Christian memoir. There are no three-act redemption arcs, no inspirational sound bites, and zero attempts to make the author look heroic. I think I'm kind of heroic. Instead, it's a muscular, honest climb through the woods of one man's life, a life marked by sudden shattering loss, repeated relational wreckage, and a God who refuses to play the part. Yo, It's Carrie: you Todd: of the gentle shepherd when the tornado hits. Pretty good, right? Anyway, that was the first line. One of the things that I'm gonna read right now, ⁓ the standout chapter, according to Grok, in AI's opinion, the standout chapter, God's tornado of leaves that blew away, is worth the price of the book alone. So guys, you should really go buy it. Todd's World.net will take you right there. I don't have an audio book yet of... Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. ⁓ Interesting. That's very good. Todd: Leaves it all the way. I'm going to do that though. But don't wait for that. You can get them both. Alan, a raw, so, God's tornado, calls a raw scripture soaked meditation on why a loving God allows and sometimes is the storm. Alan doesn't flinch from the uncomfortable truth. Suffering isn't a bug in the system. It's part of the design from creation itself. The reimagined Genesis scene where father, son, and spirit knowingly breathe life into a heart built for both love and heartache is one of the most powerful pieces of theological storytelling I've read in a long time. I don't know about you guys, I gotta go buy this book right now. You're welcome to pause it and go buy the book right now. Todd'sWorld.net leaves the blue way. Anyway, Grok loves me, I don't know about you guys. But I wanna read that because that's... Yo, It's Carrie: Go get it. Todd: That's a, it's just a perfect little anecdote. Things that, all right, Kerry, if I read that thing from Leaves of the Blue Way that I wrote about the Spirit and God and creation and the whole thing, it's fairly, it's fairly short. And this, I would say a lot of what I do, you guys probably know this, but it's somewhat fictionalized when I take the stories of the Bible. Look at them as stories. And so this is what I did is I wrote a story about this. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: kind of tying into that idea that suffering was laid in at the beginning of creation. I'm going to re-Kerry's read this in the past, but it's probably been a while. So. Yo, It's Carrie: It has. I was looking here to see if it's within reach, but I think it's on another shelf. Todd: I know how you don't have it with you all the time for ready reference. Yo, It's Carrie: We, I've never given instructions before the show. It's like, don't read anything. Don't prepare. Just prepare. Yeah, let's hear it. Todd: I know, Gary's perfect. Okay, here it is. So this is the very last kind of vignette in the God's Tornado chapter of Leaves that Blew Away, my memoir. The spirit hovers. Okay, hold on. I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna read the last paragraph and then I'm gonna go into this little vignette story I read. So what I said was, why does our God send storms into our lives? to destroy the people and things we love. Why does God so value suffering? Why did God make the world just to have it broken? Could it be it was a broken world he was after from the start? Was it our shattered, broken hearts he was looking forward to most even in the beginning? Then I break and I go into this vignette. Okay guys? The spirit hovers over the crystal blue waters. as the Father stands with Jesus in the dew of a newly created morning. They look at each other and smile. Let's make man in our image. Let's give our greatest creation a heart like ours, a broken heart, a suffering heart. This world will hurt him unspeakably, Jesus says quietly as he stoops and draws the outline of the man in the sand. The father closes his eyes. This world will hurt you unspeakably. All of heaven looks on in silence. The angels glance at each other. They don't understand. And me, God says. Jesus continues working the soil, smiling as he shapes the and molds the dirt, wiping tears from his eyes. His father touches his shoulder. The father and the word are together, one foot in time and one outside. They see both the beginning and the end and everything in between. And in the middle of the story, a dark tree looms large. Is there no other way, The spirit sighs. It's time. The Father stands up taller than the mountains. We will love him into life and teach him to love. And even when he leaves us, we will love him still. When his children forget us and run away, we will run after them and love them all the more. Most of them will never love us in return, but some will. They will suffer as we suffer and we will make them perfect. After speaking the rest of creation to life, The God of all things took a deep breath of fresh new creation air and breathed out. The first tornado blown to life by the very breath of God. Whipped into existence and picked up the formed dirt on the ground. Flesh grew over the dark soil and bright eyes blinked in the dawn light of a new world. His chest expanded and the pinnacle of all creation woke to life. The father looked at the son. and together they smiled and together they wept. They looked over everything they had made, even the dark tree waiting in the distance of time, and in that moment it was all so good. There was suffering even at the beginning of all things, and God felt it and knew it and drank deep of the joy waiting there. God's tornado was on the move. What do think Carrie? She's crying. Yo, It's Carrie: I Todd: Croc moved her to tears. Just kidding. Yo, It's Carrie: Grock wrote that chapter. Grock said the standout chapter is the one I wrote. No, Todd, it's absolutely beautiful. Yeah. I'm really glad. I'm glad that you shared it. And were you thinking of it when we were reading this? Or is it like, thanks to your Grocking yesterday that you remembered this chapter? Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's, ⁓ Todd: I wasn't, I mean, didn't, wasn't gonna, Grok reminded me of it. I knew it was out there, but. Yo, It's Carrie: It's beautiful and I'm glad you shared it too because. because it talks about God knowing, knowing about everything that was coming. ⁓ Right? Which he would. mean, if you really, anyone out there with kids, if you sit down and really think about, think about your kids, or maybe it happens more like when they're babies, and you think about them, you love them so much that it hurts. Todd: Yeah. Experiencing it even like living it in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: And when you think about them hurting in any way or facing any difficulty, like it can just break your heart. And it's not even happening. he, that's just our imaginations. With God, he can see it all and feel it all and all in that moment and not just his son, but all of his children. And that's an awful lot of people through history. So. the weight of that's unfathomable. And anyway, it's beautiful. I'm so glad you shared that. Mmm. Todd: Yeah. I'm glad. that's... Listen, I don't know. I don't know how right everything is that I think, but that at least represents my thoughts on it. You know what mean? When I see it, when I think about it, that's what... Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Well, it's consistent. It's consistent with the God who created us and loves us that we talk about. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Todd: I think so. I think so. So anyway, little different perspective maybe. I don't know. I hope. He's my ideal reader. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, that's great. CS Lewis would like it. I think you would, seriously. There you go. Be writing for, for CS Lewis. I love it. Todd: Ha By the way, I tested a few other, because most of my books got four and a half stars out of five by Grok. So I was testing some other, I tested some Stephen King books. One got four out of five, one got 4.7 out of five, which was Salem's Lot, the classic in the genre. The only, when I finally got a book to get five out of five, it was C.S. Lewis's Great Divorce. And I thought, pretty good, Grok, I'd give it five out of five too. Yeah, it was a great divorce. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Wait, was it the great divorce? ⁓ okay. Gotcha. Todd: I asked him to review it and it came back. It was a great review and it came back five out of five and I thought right on. Let's go. Bring on the Terminator. Anyway guys, well, I think we did pretty good job with chapter two, chapter three. The fall is coming next. The descent into independence. Independence day. Yo, It's Carrie: There you go. That's cool. That's great. Yikes. Todd: All right, well, Kerry, thank you for joining me today. I thought it was great. We went a little long today, guys. Sorry, we don't usually go over an hour a beer. I don't know how this happened. Sorry, it must've been my fault. Yo, It's Carrie: Thank you. Thanks for everything. We had a lot to talk about. We were sharing other people's thoughts, too. It was almost like we had a guest today. And you got to read an excerpt from Leaves That Blew Away. Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And thank you for, for thank you to Nancy, to Trevor, to Darryl, of course to Carrie always, to Patrick, to Alexander. I, I really felt like you guys had it a lot and I, was, I was, it was really good to hear the, varied perspectives of it. I thought it was really good. So, and actually when I come to the end of it all, and that's what I wondered. I thought if I start with those and then we go through ours and I kind of give my thing. Yo, It's Carrie: It was cool. Mm-hmm. I thought so too. Good job, everyone. Todd: I kind of feel like we're all circling the same thing. feel like we're there pretty much, you know, like we're all, we all kind of got the plot pretty much. I think. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? I feel like we'll revisit a little, maybe like a little point in several of those during that, during next week. So. Todd: I'm sure we will, yeah. Yeah, next week we're going to talk about the fall. So come back guys, tell your family and friends. We need your help to get up over 5 million listeners. So, right. All right guys, listen to the news. you haven't Todd's world.net that's where all the books are all links to the podcast. buy a book. That chapter's worth the price of the book alone, according to Grodd. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Yes, please. Love it. I can't, well, and listen, you just read it. if you... Todd: I wasn't even the whole chapter, was just a little part. That's how it ends. Alright guys, thanks Gary. Guys, we'll catch you next time. We'll see you next week, Tuesday with news. Alright, thanks Gary, see ya. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ was it? Okay. Awesome. Thanks, you two. Alright. Bye.