Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E289: How To Break Generational Wounds and Overcome Anger w/Lisa Bevere | Lila Rose Show

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E289: How To Break Generational Wounds and Overcome Anger w/Lisa Bevere | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  One day Lila, my son, came down the stairs and I no longer saw
• 0:03
  this beautiful 2 year old child. I saw this is an enemy.
• 0:06
  This is the one that is keeping me from getting anything done.
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  Here I was, a born again pastor's wife getting ready to
• 0:14
  sleep. I blamed my genetics.
• 0:17
  I blamed that my parents were divorced.
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  I blamed the fact that I'd lost an eye to cancer when I was 5.
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  But in that moment I sensed the Holy Spirit say you should not
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  live by what was done to you, but what was done for you.
• 0:35
  Hey everyone, welcome back to the Lila Rose Show.
• 0:38
  Today's episode is with one of my favorite people, Lisa Beaver.
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  And we talk about an issue that is very personal.
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  It's motherhood and how to deal with impatience and anger and
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  motherhood. But it also, I think, applies to
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  any relationship. And I think it's profoundly
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  helpful. A huge thank you to everybody
• 0:52
  who's been subscribing to the show.
• 0:53
  I'm so grateful for the community that we are building
• 0:55
  here. If you're not already
• 0:57
  subscribed, make sure to hit that subscribe button and leave
• 0:59
  this video a like if you enjoy this episode.
• 1:02
  Also, we've got our Patreon community growing.
• 1:04
  A huge thank you to everybody who's supporting the mission of
• 1:06
  the show. You can check out our Patreon at
• 1:09
  patreon.com/lila Rose Show. When you become a subscriber
• 1:13
  over there, you get access to behind the scenes content as
• 1:15
  well as ad free episodes. And if you become a paid
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  subscriber on a monthly basis, then you get access to 30% off
• 1:22
  all of our merch. And if you become an annual
• 1:24
  subscriber, you get your choice of one free piece of merch.
• 1:27
  Your pick. I hope that you enjoy Lisa
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  Bevere. Welcome back to the podcast.
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  I am so glad this worked out me. Too, It's like it's such a treat
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  to get to talk to you. I feel like if you're my Italian
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  mother and I have an Italian mother, you're my other Italian
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  mother and godmother, Italian godmother, yes, I'll be the
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  godmother. I, I love that, I love that.
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  And you're, every time you come on the show, people are so
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  touched. Every time you speak with us,
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  people are so brought closer to our Father in heaven.
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  So thank you for your ministry. Well, you know how much I love
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  you. Thank you.
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  And I felt like such an immediate connection with you.
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  I was telling my I was telling my team member that drove me
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  over here. I said it.
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  It was the way Lila spoke with courage and kindness.
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  I said there was clarity in the midst of nuance and confusion.
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  And they said then I I'm like following her on Instagram or
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  Twitter or something and because it's back when it was not X yet.
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  And I turn around and there you are.
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  And we're both at a women's conference and I'm like, it's
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  you. And that was 6.
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  That was six years ago. While ago.
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  Wow before. The pandemic, yeah.
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  And then we just. We had one heart.
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  Yeah. Yes, yes.
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  And we we've been on the show and we've talked about some
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  things, but one issue we have not discussed on the show at all
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  yet and one that personally is important to me, I need to work
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  on. And we were just talking about
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  one of my best girlfriends who is now a mother of her.
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  She's going on her third and she messaged you.
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  She's never had met you like a decade ago and ran into an
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  airport. One of my best friends,
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  Stephanie guys who's also been on the show was asking you a
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  question about this very topic because you've written on it and
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  lived on it. And so the.
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  Topic. The topic is anger, impatience,
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  anger, fury. Before that though, for people
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  that haven't gotten to meet you yet, just give us a little
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  snapshot on Lisa Bevere. Yeah, so, well, I was raised by
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  very broken parents, like so many people.
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  And my parents were married, divorced, remarried again,
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  divorced again. Very, very much a household
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  where my mom was broken, my dad was broken and two people that
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  were broken got together and just magnified the brokenness.
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  And I had never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in it in all of
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  like I just had never heard he loved me.
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  And when I was 21, the man I am now married to shared the gospel
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  with me on produce campus. And when I heard about the love
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  of God, when I heard about the mercy of God, I said, whatever
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  this thing is, I want to do it right now.
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  And Lila, at 21 years of age, I just surrendered my life to the
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  Lordship of Jesus Christ. And I said, God, I will, I will
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  do, I will be. I'm 100% yours and that was the
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  beginning. And I never ever even knew there
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  was ministry like I just wanted to, I just wanted to love the
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  Lord. And I think, to be honest with
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  you, I think that started when I was very young.
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  I think I was probably 5 and six years of age when I really
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  started to just cry out to the Lord.
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  And not even just like that childlike prayers.
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  And then I married that man and I've been married 43 years.
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  I have 4 beautiful sons. I'm expecting my 10th
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  grandchild. So I'm so excited.
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  Five boys, baby girls. Is that Jessica and Austin
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  Christian just had a baby She has.
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  Like a little girl that's 1 1/2 being hate him and she's a cute
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  little spicy thing so. Who's having?
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  Who's having the? Jessica and Austin, you have not
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  had a chance to meet the ones. When I haven't met them.
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  You would have met her when we met just in passing and they
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  didn't have any kids yet. So yeah.
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  So we're so excited. And it's another little girl.
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  So we'll have 5 girls, 5 boys. Just it's just, but it's
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  redemption of God. And you know, I am so thankful
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  for the goodness of God in my life.
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  My mother did not have a mother who knew how to be a mother to
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  her. She was abandoned, raised by her
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  grandmother and then kind of like kidnapped when she was like
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  14 is according to my mom, by her, her mom.
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  And if it. But so, you know, today people
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  are so angry and I I don't think people understand I didn't start
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  in the ministry because I had gone to seminary or ever even
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  wanted to be in the ministry. But what happened, Lila was all
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  I wanted to do was love my husband well, raise my children
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  well. And I had my first son and I was
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  so in love with Addison, who who is raising beautiful kids,
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  amazing father of four. I had Addison and I thought I
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  love being a mother. I got pregnant with my second
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  son. I was like, this is amazing.
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  I decided to stay home with my kids.
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  I said, I'm going to I'm going to stay home.
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  I'm going to raise them. I'm going to be that mom.
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  And when I have my second son, I thought, I will never brush my
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  teeth before noon again. It was like, what have I done?
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  I found myself so frustrated. We had one car.
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  My husband would go to work at the church every day.
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  I'd be like, pray for me, pray for me.
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  He was. Just left at home.
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  I was left home with two kids, no car.
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  Did you have any community? No, not really.
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  Not really. No.
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  I did it. And so now I'm home with kids
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  and my husband's coming home every day and the house is a
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  mess. And he's like, what?
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  What did you do all day? And I remember thinking, I don't
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  know, but I've been busy. You know, kids are alive.
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  Well. And John was a youth pastor.
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  And so people would call us for they would call me.
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  I was the one home, you know, I'm a postpartum breastfeeding
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  mother. People are calling me.
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  They're like, you know, my life's falling apart.
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  I'm like, my life's falling apart.
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  I'm like, what is going on? And my son who had been so good
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  about taking naps, now when I had that second child, he did
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  not want to take a nap. He was going to miss something.
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  Everything had to be equal. If I was kissing the baby, I had
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  to kiss him. Make every you, you have
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  multiple boys. And so now there's were phones
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  attached to walls. They were not portable.
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  My son would hear the phone ring.
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  He would jump off his bed. I would like grab a spank spoon.
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  I'd be waving at him like, get back on your bed, get back on
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  your bed. And he was like, I see that
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  spoon, but I'm not getting back on my bed.
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  And it was just like back and forth, back and forth.
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  And I remember one day like my son came down the stairs and I
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  no longer saw this beautiful 2 year old child.
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  I saw this is an enemy. This is the one that is keeping
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  me from getting anything done. And I grabbed my son and I
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  stormed up the stairs. And I remember in my in my head
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  it was like this crazy chaos and I lifted him up.
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  I live on. I thought, what can I do so he
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  stops getting off his bed, He stays on this bed so I can just
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  take a shower, so I just don't flank the test again.
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  And I lifted, I lifted Addison up eye level.
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  And in my mind I thought, slam him into the wall and put him
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  down on the bed. Then he'll know stay.
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  And I was just getting ready to do that when I saw something in
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  my son's eyes I've never seen before.
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  He was not afraid of what I was going to do.
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  He had no idea what I was going to do.
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  He was afraid of me. And when I saw the terror in my
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  son's eyes, I remembered my own growing up in an emotionally and
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  physically abusive household. And every time my mom hit me,
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  every time she slapped me, every time she kicked me, I made
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  myself a promise. I will never treat my children
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  this way, but here I was, a born again pastor's wife getting
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  ready to slam my son against the wall.
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  And Lila, I broke. Up until that point, I had made
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  excuses for my anger. Up until that point, I would
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  say, listen, I'm Sicilian. I'm passionate.
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  You can't have passion in the bedroom and not get it in the
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  kitchen. Like this is who I am.
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  I would tell my husband, don't push me.
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  You've pushed me too far. I blamed, I blamed my genetics.
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  I blamed that my, my parents were divorced multiple times.
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  I blamed that I, I thought I was part of patchy.
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  I guess they've taken that away from me now.
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  I'm part Arab. Somehow I like it.
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  I blame my I blamed everything. I blame the fact that I'd lost
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  an eye to cancer when I was 5. I had this entire resume of
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  excuses, but in that moment I realized my parents aren't here.
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  My husband's not here. It's not a demonic attack.
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  It's me. I have a real problem with
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  anger. And I put my son down in the bed
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  and I said I'm so sorry, I scared you.
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  I didn't hurt him. I put him down.
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  I said, I am so sorry I scared you and Lila, I went downstairs
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  and I wept into the carpet and I stopped making excuses.
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  And I I sense the Holy Spirit say because you're no longer
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  justifying this, I'll take it out of your life.
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  He said what you justify you by. You say I've earned the right to
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  be this way because of what was done to me.
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  And he said you should not live by what was done to you, but
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  what was done for you. And then this memory came to me.
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  You know my mom, she, she did the best she knew to do.
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  But there was an incident when I was 7, or my mom slammed me
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  against the wall, beat the living daylights out of me.
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  A babysitter showed up at our house while my mom had me on the
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  bed straddled, hitting me back and forth.
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  My mom was so ashamed that she told the babysitter that I'd
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  almost like let my brother die, which was not even true.
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  She was just so ashamed. And I made a vow that even when
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  my mom asked me to forgive her later, I forgave her of
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  everything but the one the one time.
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  And the one thing I didn't forgive my mom for was the thing
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  I almost did to my son. And what's so crazy is Lila, I,
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  I heard call your mom and I'm weeping and I said, mom, I need
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  to ask you to forgive me. And she said for what I said,
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  you know, you said you were sorry when you became a
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  Christian. You said, I'm sorry I didn't
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  raise you the way I should have. I was abusive.
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  Will you forgive me? And I said, I said, sure, sure.
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  I forgive you. I forgive you.
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  And I spent mom, I hid one in my heart because I thought I'm
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  going to hold this one until she proves herself.
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  I just mom, I almost heard Addison and I said, I don't know
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  what it was like for you to be married to an alcoholic, to be
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  married to some that was unfaithful.
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  I have a husband who loves me. I have a husband who loves God.
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  And I almost hurt my son. Will you forgive me?
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  And my mom said this to me, Lila, and it was so amazing.
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  She said, you know, that's the only thing I've never been able
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  to forgive myself for. Well, there is a reason for
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  that. The sins that we retain, they
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  are retained. And I had been like that, that
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  the wicked servant forgiven the unpayable debt.
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  And then I grab my fellow servant and I'm like, no, you're
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  going to pay me what you owe. I'm not forgiving you.
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  And when we don't forgive, we're actually doomed to live a life
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  where we either repeat those mistakes or live in a pattern
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  that is unhealthy. And that mistake continues to
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  control us. And so that literally was the
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  beginning of any ministry I did that actually ever changed
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  anybody's life. I remember I would study
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  scriptures and I'd be like, OK, God, here's my message.
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  And he'd be like, I want you to tell people how I set you free
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  from anger. When you owned your mistake, it
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  no longer owned you. And the power of forgiveness, I
• 14:06
  don't think we understand the power of forgiveness.
• 14:09
  And now I have four sons and my oldest son, who I would have
• 14:15
  completely isolated myself from, lives down the street and has
• 14:20
  his, has me very much involved in his children's life.
• 14:23
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  There's so much power in what you're sharing because you're
• 16:10
  just opening up and a lot of people, they will not share
• 16:13
  their darkest moments or their worst moments.
• 16:16
  So first of all, thank you for making that.
• 16:18
  I mean, that is such a big part of everything that you do is
• 16:21
  you're willing to share and people really connect because
• 16:23
  they know, oh, I've, I've been this way or I've had this
• 16:27
  struggle or whatever it is. I want to got very practical
• 16:32
  with this and also get more of your sense on the spiritual
• 16:35
  reality of it. So I know as a young mother
• 16:38
  myself, I've got 3 kids that I lose my patience far more easily
• 16:44
  than I thought that I would. I typically felt I was a pretty
• 16:47
  patient mom or a pretty patient person, excuse me before I had
• 16:50
  kids. But when you are when on like a
• 16:53
  human level, if you're sleep deprived and.
• 16:56
  That was all of that. Oh, you, I'm sure you were and
• 16:58
  you were isolated and you felt overwhelmed and you didn't have
• 17:01
  a good support system and and you know, somebody could say,
• 17:04
  well, those are all excuses. You shouldn't you, you, it's not
• 17:07
  fair ever to get over the top angry with your kid, right,
• 17:10
  because you're the adult in the room.
• 17:12
  And so but but I want you to kind of walk us through how you
• 17:17
  saw that because what is the difference?
• 17:19
  Let's just talk maybe more about first of all, just anger as you
• 17:22
  as you see it. So there's impatience, yes, like
• 17:25
  the like, you know, go to your room or like, you know, stop
• 17:27
  that. Stop doing that.
• 17:28
  Your brother, right? Like even this morning, one of
• 17:30
  my sons was kind of acting up with another and I was, you
• 17:33
  know, more curt in my tone. You know, this is a smaller
• 17:36
  offense, but I could have been more loving or flat at least
• 17:38
  with my tone to not like let the emotional energy of the room go
• 17:41
  up because he was already overacting.
• 17:43
  Like don't do that to your brother as opposed to don't do
• 17:45
  the don't do that to your brother.
• 17:47
  So there's like the impatience over here and then there's like
• 17:49
  the flow, but full blown anger, abuse.
• 17:51
  Well, there's anger, then there's rage, then there's
• 17:55
  wrath. Those are the three stages.
• 17:58
  And anger. Patients #1 would you say?
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  Anger, I would say anger, anger comes with a pay impact.
• 18:05
  They can come, but the Bible says be angry and sin not so or
• 18:08
  in your anger do not sin. So it's not wrong to be angry,
• 18:14
  but it it has an edge if it's impatience or not harsh, you
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  know, and then rage. So it's I used to just describe
• 18:23
  it as like anger is a heightened sense that something is not
• 18:27
  right. And then rage is like all the
• 18:31
  sudden you put a gun on the table and as soon as that gun is
• 18:35
  on the table, everything starts to change.
• 18:38
  And then wrath is when you actually shoot the gun.
• 18:40
  You know, it's, it's when you you take the part of God where
• 18:45
  you say I'm going to do vengeance or I'm going to.
• 18:48
  But for me, I did not know how to be angry and constructive.
• 18:55
  And so it's it's not wrong to have anger, It's wrong to be
• 19:00
  destructive. And you know, for me, I called
• 19:03
  my mom and and I yeah, of course, as soon as I confessed
• 19:07
  it to our heavenly Father, I was forgiven.
• 19:10
  But when I called my mom, that was when she was healed.
• 19:15
  You know, the Bible says confess your sins one to another that
• 19:17
  you might be healed. But when John came home, I
• 19:23
  confess what almost happened to him because I wanted
• 19:26
  accountability. I said hey, I almost hurt how to
• 19:31
  send a date and it scared me and John.
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  I realized I have not forgiven my mom and this this anger that
• 19:38
  I have is because of unforgiveness and unforgiveness
• 19:44
  and this unbelief that God is good for everybody but maybe not
• 19:47
  for me has put fear constantly in my life and anchor is a
• 19:51
  partner with with fear it when it's unhealthy and so anyway I.
• 19:56
  Did he respond? Just curious.
• 19:57
  Well, he shared that. He was, he was like, wow, OK,
• 20:02
  you know, but since I hadn't, he was like, all right, what are we
• 20:05
  going to do? And I said I'm going to pray
• 20:08
  every single morning before I get out of bed that I would be.
• 20:12
  I would be quick to listen, slow to wrath, slow to speak that
• 20:15
  these would be things because I was quick to speak, slow to
• 20:19
  listen, quick to wrath. I mean, I was like, and you
• 20:22
  know, John would make fun of it. He would say.
• 20:25
  And it kind of like it started in my marriage because now all
• 20:28
  the sudden before I even had kids, it started in my marriage.
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  But I never and I felt OK about taking out my anger on my
• 20:37
  husband. He's an adult.
• 20:39
  Because he he pushed kind of he, he, he annoys, he's.
• 20:41
  Not vulnerable, yeah. And then he he, is he a more
• 20:44
  steady personality, so it didn't like.
• 20:46
  Turn into a screaming no, he's John's.
• 20:48
  Intense. He's intense, but did he, would
• 20:50
  he get angry back at you? Yes.
• 20:51
  OK, so yes, it was. It would just go like this, OK,
• 20:54
  But like literally this was kind of a turning point for us.
• 20:58
  We, we were, I had to have my second son yet again.
• 21:02
  I'm like having to go back to my memory banks that we were in a
• 21:05
  little apartment and I remember thinking, God, I have there's
• 21:10
  something going on. I don't like the way I'm acting.
• 21:13
  And so I it was New Year's Eve and I cried out to God and I
• 21:18
  said there was a beautiful worship song.
• 21:21
  It went take me into the holy of holies.
• 21:24
  Take me in by the blood of the lamb.
• 21:26
  Take me into the holy of holies, take your coal, cleanse my lips.
• 21:30
  Here I am. And I was like, God, I want you
• 21:34
  to excavate my life. And I was like, that was a weird
• 21:39
  choice of words, but I was like just anything, anything deep and
• 21:44
  hidden that is causing these responses.
• 21:47
  I want you to excavate my life. And instead of things getting
• 21:51
  immediately better, instead of an Angel appearing to me and
• 21:54
  doing a cool, I went from having like an anger, like full blown
• 22:00
  feeling like I'm shaking from once a month to every single
• 22:07
  week, to almost feeling like I'm on edge at all times.
• 22:12
  And this was after the prayer. No, this is after the prayer
• 22:15
  before I had my second son. Yeah.
• 22:16
  So this was it was kind of like a process had started.
• 22:20
  And so I have this this prayer, I only have one child at the
• 22:24
  time. I have this prayer of not he's
• 22:26
  not suffering any of the anger. It's just my husband he's just
• 22:30
  getting. And so I would tell John, don't
• 22:32
  push me. You pushed me.
• 22:34
  Yes, I shouldn't have said that, but you pushed me.
• 22:36
  So I remember I was in our kitchen and John kept saying
• 22:40
  what is going on? What is going on?
• 22:41
  You know, why are you acting like this?
• 22:43
  And I had a plate in my hand and I took the plate, Lila and I
• 22:47
  threw it like a Frisbee at him. And he like ducked to the side,
• 22:51
  missing decapitation. And I broke the apartment
• 22:54
  window. Like the plate went out the
• 22:56
  window that was closed, shattered the window went into
• 22:59
  the yard. And we both like, just looked at
• 23:01
  each other. He's like, you just broke the
• 23:03
  window. You just broke the window at our
• 23:05
  apartment. And I said, Oh my gosh.
• 23:08
  And he said, I'm not going to lie for you.
• 23:10
  I'm not going to say I'm not going to.
• 23:13
  And I was like, listen, I don't want you to lie, but I'm not
• 23:15
  going to be here when you tell the truth.
• 23:16
  And so I literally go out and I'm praying.
• 23:19
  I'm like, oh God, I can't believe I threw a plate at my
• 23:21
  husband. I can't believe I did this.
• 23:23
  Oh God, please, you're, you're all powerful.
• 23:25
  Just reassemble the window, do something.
• 23:27
  And like, I, I, it's ridiculous. And so I'm gone.
• 23:33
  Maintenance comes, John is in the bathroom.
• 23:37
  My 2 year old son opens the door.
• 23:39
  The maintenance guy comes in. He sees his broken window and
• 23:43
  he's like, whoa, whoa, what happened?
• 23:45
  He pulls the sofa out and when he pulls the sofas out, one of
• 23:49
  my son's Tonka trucks was behind the sofa and he thought my 2
• 23:55
  year old son had broken the window.
• 23:58
  And so John walks out and the guy's got the Tonka truck in his
• 24:01
  hands and he's looking in the broken window and he's like
• 24:04
  this. And this happens all the time.
• 24:06
  He just put, put plastic over. And John was like started to
• 24:09
  say, no, it wasn't my 2 year old.
• 24:10
  It was my, it was my 30 year old wife that did this.
• 24:13
  And he was like, no, say no more, say no more.
• 24:15
  Just put the put, put the glass. And John was like, I said, no
• 24:19
  more. And so then I was kind of like,
• 24:20
  well, see, see, like God covered for me.
• 24:23
  Oh, I've got started feeling justified.
• 24:25
  John shouldn't have pushed me. This was not really my fault.
• 24:29
  I got to ask you so. So I think this is such a a key
• 24:32
  to this. A lot of this.
• 24:33
  You saw stuff like that growing up.
• 24:35
  Did you see your mother through a place growing up?
• 24:37
  I threw, yes. I mean, my mom threw me growing
• 24:40
  up, yeah. So you you saw and.
• 24:41
  My dad would just leave, OK? My dad would just go out to the
• 24:44
  bars and so. So that was like a acceptable
• 24:48
  way to experience. Or to communicate and.
• 24:52
  Communication. You didn't see healthy
• 24:54
  communication. How could you?
• 24:55
  No affection, no healthy communication.
• 24:58
  So. But I think what what what's so
• 25:00
  interesting about even that story and and this physical
• 25:02
  reaction. Well, the physical you are
• 25:04
  trained because our kids, how we are raised as kids, right, is
• 25:09
  what we we. Follow what?
• 25:13
  What's the model? Even if we in our mind say we
• 25:15
  don't want to be that way, and actually if you like resent your
• 25:18
  parents like you were saying and how they raised you, you don't
• 25:20
  want to be that way. I would argue you're more likely
• 25:23
  to become like them because you're not operating in
• 25:25
  forgiveness and freedom. You're operating in or you know,
• 25:27
  just like anger actually increases ongoing anger.
• 25:31
  I think about my childhood. My mother is Italian 100%, half
• 25:34
  Sicilian, half regular regular Italian.
• 25:37
  That Sicilian brings a lot and. How she did, how she lived was
• 25:41
  even better than her mother and her grand.
• 25:42
  Like there's this long line of these Italian women that were
• 25:45
  out of control. They were out of control and
• 25:48
  they were amazing, like beautiful, generous, love, being
• 25:51
  passionate that, you know, control was something that that
• 25:54
  was generational had to be worked on.
• 25:56
  And it was also had to be a conversion experience.
• 25:58
  Like my grandmother didn't have the relationship with God that
• 26:00
  my mother had, right. And then, you know, now my
• 26:03
  mother can pass on that deposit of faith to me.
• 26:05
  But I bring that up because I think it's just helping people
• 26:08
  even understand how did I get here?
• 26:10
  If someone listening is struggling with anger or has
• 26:13
  anger that comes out of nowhere, like where did that anger come
• 26:15
  from? Yeah, I I saw it.
• 26:18
  I was the victim of it. I still have a memory, Lila, of
• 26:21
  being in a high chair and watching my parents physically,
• 26:26
  my mom physically attacked my dad and watching my parents in
• 26:31
  this fight and me just sitting in a high chair and and just
• 26:34
  seeing this. I mean, like, I think these are
• 26:37
  crazy people. And he wouldn't hurt her, but
• 26:39
  she would. Hurt him.
• 26:40
  He would not hurt her. Yeah.
• 26:42
  So she was abusive, but he wasn't?
• 26:43
  She was. He was abusive with alcoholism.
• 26:45
  He yeah, he would he would abandoned, he would just tap
• 26:49
  out. But and, and my mom, what was
• 26:52
  crazy is my mom was the way it was set up where my mom would be
• 26:57
  physically abusive of me, but she would imply that she was
• 27:01
  being abusive because if my dad knew, then he would be even more
• 27:06
  abusive. And my dad walked in one time on
• 27:10
  my mom when she was just wailing on me and she didn't hear him
• 27:14
  come in and he came up behind her and grabbed her arms because
• 27:18
  she was like slapping me in the face.
• 27:20
  And he came up and grabbed her arms and said, what are you
• 27:25
  doing? And that was the first time he
• 27:27
  realized what had been going on. He didn't even know.
• 27:30
  He had no idea. And he said don't you ever hit
• 27:33
  her again? I think I was 15 at the time.
• 27:36
  Yeah. So he was like, hide it from
• 27:38
  him. Yeah.
• 27:38
  He yeah. He never, he never saw it.
• 27:41
  He never, my dad never physically abused me.
• 27:46
  Never. You know, he he would.
• 27:48
  He was a scary person. Like, you know, if he said
• 27:51
  something, you're going to listen to him.
• 27:52
  But he never physically abused me.
• 27:55
  It was my mom. And again, you know, she had
• 27:58
  borderline personality disorder, which is something when you're
• 28:01
  abandoned, a lot of people end up with that.
• 28:04
  And she, you know, she, she just didn't, she didn't get the help
• 28:08
  she needed. She didn't get the love she
• 28:10
  needed. And so.
• 28:12
  Like is she physically abused? No, I don't think so.
• 28:15
  I think she was just abandoned, no?
• 28:18
  That's also an interesting point.
• 28:20
  Like I was saying, well, a lot of people who are abused, they
• 28:22
  abuse or they're facing or they're angry, but not always.
• 28:26
  Yeah, and my dad was physically abused and he didn't ever abuse
• 28:28
  me. He was beaten by a stepfather.
• 28:30
  And he never, he never beat my brother.
• 28:32
  He never beat me. He just left.
• 28:34
  And I think he was like, I'm, I'm don't trust myself.
• 28:37
  I'm just going to, I'm just going to tap out.
• 28:39
  But you know, it's, it's, it's so true what you're saying.
• 28:43
  People follow what they model, what's been modeled for them.
• 28:46
  But you have to still do the work.
• 28:48
  And, and I think you can do all the counseling, but if you do
• 28:52
  not have a relationship with the counselor, with the Holy Spirit,
• 28:55
  if he does not like, give you mercy, because this is what's
• 28:59
  going on in me. I'm like, if I was, let's say I
• 29:01
  was 20 years younger or 30 years younger now.
• 29:05
  And I heard, you know, they had the same situation.
• 29:09
  I would be cutting my parents off.
• 29:11
  I would tell my mom, you're toxic.
• 29:13
  I don't want anything to do with you.
• 29:15
  I wouldn't forgive her. I wouldn't bring her into my
• 29:17
  family. Now, did I protect my kids?
• 29:20
  She never. Of course.
• 29:21
  She never did anything but love my children.
• 29:23
  But, you know, there was like, I had to have some boundaries.
• 29:27
  I had to say, hey, this is how this family act.
• 29:29
  We don't talk like this. We don't attack each other.
• 29:32
  One of my sons actually told my mom, you don't talk to my mom
• 29:34
  like that. I was like, yay, you know, there
• 29:37
  was like, we had to change some stuff, but we didn't cut her
• 29:40
  off. Was that in part because she
• 29:42
  apologized? She did apologize.
• 29:45
  OK, so she she definitely apologized.
• 29:47
  So it wasn't like a situation because I these cut off stories
• 29:50
  are very interesting and sometimes I sometimes I, I I
• 29:53
  think they can be necessary to have big boundary.
• 29:56
  If it's an abusive situation. Sounds like she was self aware
• 29:59
  about she was somewhat dead, somewhat OK, it was kind of how
• 30:02
  beautiful. My mom died.
• 30:03
  My mom looked at me and she said, Lisa, it's not your fault.
• 30:07
  And I said what's not my fault because I mean, I felt like I
• 30:09
  was, I was the one that was got blamed for everything.
• 30:12
  And I said what's not my fault. And she said I just never bonded
• 30:15
  with you. I was like, OK, that would have
• 30:18
  been so helpful. But but there's, you know, when
• 30:21
  you have that borderline personality disorder, they say
• 30:24
  they choose one child to love and then they like so I was the
• 30:28
  safe 1. So she would, she would attack
• 30:33
  my relationship because I was the safe one.
• 30:35
  I'm the one that took care of her.
• 30:37
  We're the ones that like put her in a, you know, bought her an
• 30:39
  apartment, like took care of her.
• 30:41
  And my brother was the one that she adored, but he was not kind
• 30:46
  to her. So it was very like everything
• 30:48
  was very weird and very unhealthy.
• 30:51
  Thing is, like you, you take for granted the ones that care for
• 30:53
  you and you lash out at them. But then the ones that are not
• 30:56
  safe or distant, then you're more likely to be appreciative
• 30:59
  and. Protective of that relationship.
• 31:00
  Yeah, it's very, it's very weird.
• 31:02
  It's very weird and you know, and people can get free from
• 31:05
  that. But again, I, I, I believe that
• 31:10
  my mom died knowing that she was loved by me, loved by God, loved
• 31:16
  by my brother, and, you know, so it, but it's again, at the end
• 31:20
  of the day, forgiving is one of the most supernatural things we
• 31:27
  can do. I think it's possibly more
• 31:30
  difficult to forgive people that we think don't deserve it than
• 31:35
  it is to like pray for people and see them get healed.
• 31:38
  I mean, that's but forgiving my mom, forgiving my dad.
• 31:43
  My dad again was just more of the abandonment thing.
• 31:45
  But forgiving my mom and being an agent of healing for her,
• 31:51
  like we ended up like giving her a job in our organization and
• 31:56
  she would just call people and pray with them.
• 31:58
  And she was amazing with other people.
• 32:01
  She would just like call them and pray for them and she just
• 32:05
  loved that so much. But you know what the I I don't
• 32:09
  know where I would have been, Lila, if I hadn't forgiven my
• 32:11
  mom. I might have.
• 32:13
  I might be divorced. I might, I might have children
• 32:16
  that don't want anything to do with me.
• 32:18
  They've just gone down that path.
• 32:20
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• 34:04
  mother. Do you said she was abandoned?
• 34:06
  Yeah. What can you share more?
• 34:08
  What? My grandmother, very, very
• 34:10
  interesting. You know, I do believe that
• 34:12
  there are demonic things that happen in families and patterns
• 34:16
  that the enemy tries to propagate.
• 34:18
  So my grandmother got pregnant with my mom, 19, married my
• 34:23
  mom's father, divorced him, remarried him and divorced him.
• 34:28
  Now interesting, my parents were married, divorced, remarried
• 34:31
  each other and divorced. I was like, you know, we're
• 34:33
  stopping this pattern but so my grandmother was born in a tiny
• 34:39
  little town in Charleston, IL, ran away to New York and became
• 34:44
  a like buyer for women's wear daily.
• 34:47
  She was the very first woman buyer back then men were buying
• 34:51
  foundations, which is like women's bras, underwear slips.
• 34:54
  My grandmother got that job. She would come back and visit my
• 34:59
  mother, but my my mother thought her mother was maybe like this
• 35:02
  movie star that just came and visited her every once in a
• 35:04
  while. Didn't even really understand
• 35:07
  that she was her mother. How old was the little your your
• 35:10
  mother? I I I mean young.
• 35:12
  So she like 5 years old would. Leave her daughter less and like
• 35:16
  left her when she's probably 2 one or two.
• 35:19
  And so it's like once a month or not even that often, yeah.
• 35:23
  Because it was an airfare travel like it was trained.
• 35:25
  Who raised your mother? My grandmother, her.
• 35:28
  My great grandmother, Her she. Didn't have a mother, your
• 35:30
  mother. She didn't have and my great
• 35:31
  grandmother was was just like an amazing woman, but like
• 35:36
  hardcore, you know, no nonsense. And my mother said that my
• 35:42
  grandmother was ashamed of her country bumpkin mother.
• 35:46
  So she living the life in New York, She gets married again.
• 35:50
  My grandmother gets married again.
• 35:52
  Now she's our second husband, third marriage and she has two
• 35:56
  sons and she decides she wants her daughter.
• 35:59
  And so she calls, you know, or gets in contact with my great
• 36:03
  grandmother and said, Hey, I want, I want Shirley to come
• 36:06
  live with me now. And my great grandmother said,
• 36:09
  no, she has a life here. Don't disrupt her.
• 36:11
  She's 14. She's lived, these are her
• 36:14
  friends and whatever. And my, my grandmother came to
• 36:19
  like on a train that she, my great grandma thought she was
• 36:21
  coming to visit. And she snatched my mom and took
• 36:24
  her, took her to West Lafayette, IN my, my mother moved in with
• 36:29
  my, my grandmother and her second husband.
• 36:32
  Then my grandmother's second husband had some kind of nervous
• 36:36
  breakdown. My grandmother had an affair.
• 36:39
  She had that second, second husband, third marriage like
• 36:44
  chalk treatments done on him, divorced him and married the guy
• 36:49
  she was having an affair with and that.
• 36:51
  I mean your, your, your teenage mother saw that all and was like
• 36:54
  in a brand new place. No friends, no stability.
• 36:57
  This woman she's not bonded with and she's.
• 36:59
  Just and my grandmother was my grandmother was not a nurturing
• 37:03
  person. Let's just put it that way.
• 37:04
  Now, I she loved me, but she was, I would not say she was a
• 37:07
  nurturing person. And so Lila, I came from this
• 37:10
  long list. My my grandfather was the 32nd
• 37:13
  degree Mason. He was on the Manhattan Project.
• 37:16
  You know, the one that my the last, the only grandmother
• 37:20
  grandfather. I knew he's not blood, but he's
• 37:23
  covenant grandfather and he had made all sorts of vows as a 32nd
• 37:29
  degree Mason. It was interesting when I went
• 37:31
  through and prayed through those things.
• 37:32
  One of the vows was if he broke a certain thing of secrecy, that
• 37:36
  one of his descendants would lose an eye, and I had my eye
• 37:40
  removed when I was 5. Isn't that crazy?
• 37:43
  That's so crazy. It's so great.
• 37:45
  This was your grandfather, a great grandfather.
• 37:47
  It's my grandfather. Yeah, my grandfather.
• 37:49
  Was a freemason and made a vow that if he.
• 37:51
  Yeah, he's a 32nd degree Mason, which is the architects of time.
• 37:55
  Yeah. So he was on the Manhattan
• 37:57
  Project. He was the president of Great
• 37:59
  Lakes Chemical and so he and he was the Dean of chemistry at
• 38:02
  Purdue. So he did chlorination and
• 38:05
  fluoridation of the water. When you think about that now
• 38:08
  we're all seeing how bad fluoride is.
• 38:10
  We're all seeing how bad the chlorination is.
• 38:13
  And so and he had affairs and so there was just all this
• 38:16
  brokenness. How did?
• 38:17
  You find out about that that he had made a vow that one of his.
• 38:19
  Ancestors So what happened was so I.
• 38:22
  Not his ancestors. One of his descendants would
• 38:24
  lose an eye if. He So what happened was.
• 38:26
  Trade a secret? So the Masonic thing has has a
• 38:30
  lot of different things going on.
• 38:32
  And what happened was I had seen, I had seen a demonic
• 38:36
  manifestation in my grandma's house when I was 14, right after
• 38:39
  my grandfather died. I had seen something very scary,
• 38:42
  very demonic, very real. And, you know, I was aware of
• 38:45
  that. Well, I want to say about 10
• 38:49
  years ago my son saw the same thing.
• 38:52
  Can you share what it does? Or you don't?
• 38:54
  It was a. Hooded figure and it, it
• 38:57
  appeared like it appeared and, and my son was like, mom, I saw
• 39:02
  this hooded figure and it's, it's like after my life.
• 39:07
  And I said, OK, you know what, I'm going to find out what is
• 39:11
  behind the Masonic stuff. So because I had no idea that my
• 39:15
  grandfather was a Mason when I was young, but somebody had
• 39:18
  said, I think that's not a good thing.
• 39:21
  So I found the prayer that you go through the different levels
• 39:26
  of the vows that they made and the attachments that of those
• 39:31
  different vows and I went through and I broke those things
• 39:36
  and I just said I'm going to stand in the gap for my
• 39:39
  generation. So as I went through the
• 39:41
  different vows, one of the things was if I break this vow
• 39:45
  of secrecy, I, you know, one of my descendants will lose.
• 39:49
  I mean, it's crazy. It's like crazy.
• 39:51
  It's like, it's very demonic. There's it, it's all sorts of
• 39:56
  weird stuff and, and you know that even the Tower of Babel had
• 40:00
  like demonic Babylonian things that are tied to the Masonic
• 40:04
  stuff. It's all, it's all kind of woven
• 40:07
  into it. And so when I, I literally was
• 40:10
  away Florida, I was writing a book and I literally called my
• 40:14
  son. I was like, OK, put the phone on
• 40:16
  speaker. We are breaking this right now
• 40:20
  and yeah. So, so there's so much and I
• 40:23
  think. That we're covering so.
• 40:25
  Excavating like the the word you used earlier when you were
• 40:27
  praying to God excavate me like I want to be all yours.
• 40:29
  I do think excavating our family tree, yes, and taking stock of
• 40:34
  what happened in our family tree, the good and the bad is a,
• 40:38
  I think an exercise for everyone.
• 40:40
  I think everyone should do it. I have heard some people say,
• 40:43
  hey, let bygones be bygones. Just forgive.
• 40:45
  Like, why are you? Why are you thinking too much
• 40:47
  about the faults of your predecessors?
• 40:49
  Like don't, don't overthink it. Just forgive them.
• 40:52
  And you don't don't make excuses.
• 40:54
  If my son hadn't seen that entity, I probably would have
• 40:56
  not right done that. I was like, no, because you and
• 41:00
  I both know that every generation has has this ability
• 41:06
  to be the beginning 1000 generations who love God and
• 41:09
  keep his commandments. And so I had such an awareness
• 41:13
  that I was first generation Christian, that John and I were
• 41:17
  the first couple to say, we're going to, we're going to fear
• 41:21
  the Lord. We're going to honor what he
• 41:23
  honors. And we're going to, we're going
• 41:25
  to set apart our family. We're going to be consecrated in
• 41:29
  every area of our marriage and our parenting.
• 41:31
  And as much as we know. And so as we knew more and
• 41:34
  what's people don't you know when people say, Oh, you don't
• 41:36
  have to worry about curses or vows or something, they, they
• 41:39
  forget one thing. God is not a legalist, but Satan
• 41:44
  is. I remember I, I had become a
• 41:46
  Christian and I came home and I wasn't married to John.
• 41:49
  I was getting ready to get, you know, ready to get married.
• 41:52
  I was so excited. And now I'm finding my like self
• 41:57
  having sleep paralysis, feeling like something is laying on top
• 42:00
  of me and choking me in the night.
• 42:03
  And I would go to say the name of Jesus.
• 42:05
  It would say you can't say that. And of course I would just say
• 42:08
  it. I would say it anyway.
• 42:09
  And it kept going on, going on and going on.
• 42:12
  And I was like, what is going? What door have I left open?
• 42:16
  And the Holy Spirit showed me I had put a bunch of pot in the
• 42:20
  attic space of my bedroom. Hot.
• 42:23
  Yes, like marijuana. Marijuana because I had been a
• 42:26
  really good heath and before I was not.
• 42:27
  And interesting the the pharmakeia like it had.
• 42:31
  I had left an open door. Meaning you might use it later.
• 42:36
  Well, or what was that? What happened was I put it up
• 42:38
  there because I don't want mom to find it was a way to college.
• 42:41
  Somebody gave it to me. I didn't.
• 42:43
  I didn't use it. I hid it and then I became a
• 42:47
  Christian and I totally forgot it was even up there.
• 42:50
  And God was like, your closet, open that up.
• 42:53
  And I was like, Oh my gosh, I put a stash up here, flushed it
• 42:56
  down the toilet and I was like, you have no legal grounds.
• 42:59
  There is a bloodline. You cannot come in, you cannot
• 43:02
  torment me. But you know, I had gone through
• 43:05
  my parents house when my I told my mom I said mom, I think we
• 43:07
  have demonic like oppression in our.
• 43:10
  House, the Freemason thing is, is a real demonic stronghold.
• 43:13
  It is a real. Stronghold and again, not to say
• 43:15
  that people that have these in their things in these in their
• 43:17
  family trees, they're going to get demonic oppression or you
• 43:20
  know, we've had a lot of exorcist on the show kind of
• 43:21
  walk through. You know, some of like you said
• 43:24
  that the the rules of the gang because God, he sees everything
• 43:27
  and he's omnipotent, so he's not going to allow saying to do
• 43:30
  something that he doesn't allow something to do.
• 43:31
  But sometimes he allows battles. So we trains our hands for war
• 43:34
  and our fingers for battle. Yeah.
• 43:36
  So I had literally, like, felt this constant oppression in our
• 43:39
  house. And so I told mom.
• 43:41
  Mom, I think we need to pray. I don't know what it is.
• 43:43
  I think there's something demonic in our house and I think
• 43:46
  maybe there's some something like demons or something.
• 43:48
  And my mom said, I don't believe in demons.
• 43:50
  I said, well, I think they believe in us.
• 43:51
  I I'm like, they're, they're seems like it's choking me at
• 43:54
  night. There's something choking me and
• 43:56
  this before I found the stash. And so I said, let's, let's pray
• 43:59
  because my mom becomes let's pray together.
• 44:01
  And she was like, I don't believe in that.
• 44:02
  I think it's just people make choices.
• 44:04
  And so I called the spiritual father and he said wait till she
• 44:07
  goes to work and you just go through and just anoint the
• 44:11
  house and just pray, pray and anything you have a sense, just
• 44:15
  take the name of Jesus as you know.
• 44:16
  So I go through my parents bedroom, the guest bedroom, my
• 44:20
  brother's bedroom, my bedroom, go downstairs, living room,
• 44:22
  dining room, kitchen, you know, and I'm in the kitchen and I'm
• 44:25
  like, OK, I'm done. I've prayed over the whole house
• 44:28
  and a door upstairs starts opening and slamming shut.
• 44:31
  What? Yes, I went running out the
• 44:35
  front door. I was like, oh, I'm in a horror
• 44:38
  film. I'm in a horror film.
• 44:40
  This is. How many times?
• 44:42
  I ran out. Well, so then I then I was like,
• 44:46
  I don't want to go back and I realized I don't have my car
• 44:48
  keys. I'm just standing in my front
• 44:49
  yard with a demon in my house. What's going on?
• 44:53
  And I said, God show me what to do.
• 44:56
  And he showed me it was a little demon making a very big noise.
• 45:02
  And so I I got mad Lila, and I was like, you will not make me
• 45:07
  afraid in my own house. And I went running up the stairs
• 45:11
  when the door was in motion and it stopped and I said I in the.
• 45:14
  Not in motion. Yes, I did.
• 45:17
  Yes, I did. Was it a bedroom door?
• 45:18
  It's my brother's bedroom door. Yeah.
• 45:20
  And he had some stuff in there. It's my he had some stuff.
• 45:23
  Yeah, he was. Wow.
• 45:25
  Yeah, He, he had some stuff. So I had to literally say, all
• 45:29
  right, if I can't control this whole house, I can't.
• 45:32
  Control this going to this room. Well, I mean, I just said if he
• 45:36
  has willingly invited him because even my parents, you
• 45:41
  know, they, they were basically cultural Catholic.
• 45:44
  So they bought me a Ouija board. They had astrology pillows like
• 45:48
  it was. Watching they didn't get a Mass
• 45:50
  on Sundays. No, yeah, not consistent.
• 45:53
  It's like my mother growing up. She was not consistent.
• 45:55
  Italian Catholic but not practicing.
• 45:57
  Yes, only if we're going on an airplane.
• 46:00
  We went to confession. Thank God.
• 46:03
  For that, that was. Monday night, Yeah.
• 46:06
  No, I mean, it was. It was so my.
• 46:08
  They they they believed some of it.
• 46:10
  They believed very little thing. Tiny.
• 46:12
  Knot. Very, very.
• 46:13
  They were scared of hell. They were scared of.
• 46:16
  At least to some degree, they believed the Ouija born.
• 46:18
  The Ouija born yes, I I mean, and sun signs and just all of
• 46:22
  that. You grew up with the Ouija born
• 46:24
  in your house. Yes, my parents gave it to me
• 46:25
  for Christmas. No, yes.
• 46:28
  How old were you? I remember WE 12:13.
• 46:33
  But you know what, I think it, I think I've used it and I had a
• 46:39
  summer party and it worked and it scared me so bad.
• 46:45
  I put it underneath my bed and didn't use it.
• 46:47
  But I should have just burnt it. But no, I, I mean, we, when I
• 46:50
  became a Christian, we threw all that.
• 46:52
  I threw all of that out as soon as I understood, but it was like
• 46:55
  a mix. So it was like, you know, we had
• 46:58
  holy water and Ouija. Boards, I'm like they had holy
• 47:00
  water in the house too. I did so I I had one of the.
• 47:03
  God, you have that. I know.
• 47:06
  No, no, it was. It was.
• 47:08
  It was it was God pulling on my heart from a very young age.
• 47:12
  But not like if your parents give you a Ouija board for
• 47:15
  Christmas, you're like, oh, thank you.
• 47:17
  You don't know. No idea.
• 47:18
  No, you have no idea. So.
• 47:20
  So with the brothers room though, did you?
• 47:22
  What did you end up doing? So I realized, OK, I I'm not
• 47:26
  going to be tormented. So I literally went, that's when
• 47:28
  I went into my bedroom and I said, all right, I can.
• 47:32
  I don't have ultimate authority over this household.
• 47:35
  My parents do, but I have authority over this bedroom.
• 47:39
  And so I'm drawing a bloodline like the blood of Jesus is, is
• 47:42
  on this door frame and nothing happens in this room.
• 47:46
  And I said, God, if there's anything in this room still that
• 47:49
  is giving permission to the enemy, show it to me.
• 47:52
  And that is when he showed me that I had a stash of marijuana
• 47:56
  and this was your room in my and so you threw it out and all the
• 48:00
  attacks stopped. And and that was that was it.
• 48:04
  But my brother, he he went through a really rough time
• 48:08
  period and then ended up having to come and live with John and I
• 48:11
  because my mom could not, could not handle him.
• 48:14
  And, you know, he's now built a family and stuff.
• 48:17
  But yeah, there was, there was, there was stuff.
• 48:20
  It was. It was weird.
• 48:21
  It's amazing how the Holy Spirit is a guide for us when we're
• 48:26
  willing to ask Him for help and give us.
• 48:29
  I'd also give him permission to fully like you, like that word
• 48:32
  excavate. Actually, it's a wonderful word.
• 48:34
  02 weeks later, I was saying, I didn't mean to say excavate,
• 48:37
  accessorize landscape, just don't take it up.
• 48:40
  Don't take it up because it was so uncomfortable.
• 48:43
  I mean, like, it's like God, when we give God permission to
• 48:47
  do a deep work, he is like, yes, did you hear that?
• 48:52
  Go for it. I mean, I, I, I just realized
• 48:55
  there's certain prayers and that that was precious to the Lord,
• 48:58
  but the process was painful. It was really painful.
• 49:02
  And yet that's been the connection point for other
• 49:05
  people was whoa, whoa, I have hurt my child or I've been on
• 49:11
  that edge or I don't know how to deal with these things that, you
• 49:15
  know, sometimes we blame everything on the devil when
• 49:17
  really it's on forgiveness or patterns.
• 49:20
  But we know that the devil aggravates things that are
• 49:24
  already there. But we always have a choice.
• 49:27
  And for me, you know, I find that obedience is the highest
• 49:32
  form of spiritual warfare. And so when God told me to
• 49:35
  forgive my mom, that was like taking back a territory that had
• 49:39
  been lost was my mom had never forgiven her mom.
• 49:42
  So now all of the sudden there's a whole new legacy set up where
• 49:47
  it's a legacy of forgiveness, It's a legacy of love.
• 49:50
  And when I asked my mom to forgive me, she actually her and
• 49:55
  I together prayed over the phone that this abuse of children
• 50:02
  would stop. And you know, I remember when I
• 50:06
  knew it had worked was I, I was on AI was on like CBN or
• 50:11
  something like that. And they recorded my testimony
• 50:13
  on anger and I was out of the room and my I didn't know I was
• 50:18
  on TV actually. And my son heard that.
• 50:23
  I almost heard him. And I walk in the room and my
• 50:26
  son, who is now like 12, is watching me tell a story that I
• 50:32
  almost hurt him when he was like 3.
• 50:35
  And I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I don't ever want him to hear
• 50:40
  that. And he turned around.
• 50:41
  He said, I can't see you doing that.
• 50:44
  And I thought, I can still see me doing it.
• 50:46
  You know, I was like, oh, thank you, Jesus.
• 50:48
  You know, that, that in my son's eyes, you know, he doesn't see
• 50:52
  that he didn't see me that way. And thank God, I mean, thank God
• 50:55
  that I had asked God to start the process.
• 50:59
  And you know, it was like, I, I feel like if I, of course I
• 51:04
  hated that I, that I was at that place where that rage and that
• 51:08
  anger. But Lila, so many people now
• 51:12
  have found, oh wait, I can get free.
• 51:15
  This pattern can stop if I forgive, if I repent, if I stop
• 51:19
  making excuses, if I have accountability, if I practice a
• 51:24
  spiritual discipline of first thing in the morning, God put a
• 51:28
  watch over my mouth that I don't sin against you.
• 51:31
  I'm going to be slow to speak, quick to listen, slow to wrath.
• 51:35
  All of those things are virtues. They are the spiritual
• 51:39
  disciplines that break a pattern and patterns are formed one
• 51:46
  action at a time. And so we can form a healthy
• 51:49
  pattern one reaction at a time. And so for me that was that was
• 51:54
  huge. And then John's dealing with
• 51:57
  anger came like about 5-6 years later and yeah, and he dealt
• 52:02
  with it. What does it look like for in in
• 52:05
  your view? And what have you discovered in
• 52:07
  your own process of sanctification around anger to
• 52:10
  be free from anger? And what is that?
• 52:13
  How did you achieve that? Yeah.
• 52:15
  And what it what did it actually concretely look like?
• 52:17
  Would you like, not raise your voice anymore?
• 52:19
  Well, I think. It's to be angry and sin not so
• 52:21
  it's constructive anger. So if I if I'm feeling angry
• 52:25
  about something, I have to say, OK, what is going on here?
• 52:28
  Like you're feeling it like you get like if I feel like a spike.
• 52:32
  Yeah, because like my like my personality is all injustice
• 52:37
  thing. Like I'll be like, I mean,
• 52:39
  immediately. Back up.
• 52:40
  Yeah. Oh, immediately attack my
• 52:42
  family, you know, like those kind of things.
• 52:43
  And so I think what's going on here?
• 52:45
  What's going on here? And then I have to be like, all
• 52:48
  right, how do I constructively rather than destructively handle
• 52:54
  this? So attacking the problem rather
• 52:57
  than the person. And we, you know, I was talking
• 53:01
  with some friends yesterday and I said, here's here's the the
• 53:04
  turning point basically from my husband and I in our marriage or
• 53:09
  our family. Like when you attack the
• 53:12
  character of the person, the person is going to be defensive.
• 53:15
  But if you separate their action from their character from their
• 53:20
  person, like if, if like you said, OK, let's say I started
• 53:23
  acting up and, and you are like Lisa, Lisa, that's not who you
• 53:28
  are. Like, I know you.
• 53:31
  What's bothering you? So then I'm going to the place
• 53:34
  where there's a deeper connection where I'm, I'm going
• 53:38
  to be able to say what's the real problem here?
• 53:42
  And so for me, yelling, I don't like to be yelled at.
• 53:47
  That doesn't, that doesn't get my attention more.
• 53:50
  That makes me more defensive. Attacking me.
• 53:53
  That doesn't, that doesn't work for me.
• 53:55
  So I I just think it's so simple to think.
• 53:59
  If I want to be heard, say it the way you'd want to hear it.
• 54:04
  Don't yell, don't threaten, don't blame, don't bring up
• 54:09
  things from the past. See, I like when John and I
• 54:12
  would fight early on in our marriage.
• 54:14
  I somehow had supernatural recall for everything he'd ever
• 54:18
  done that ever upset me. I even knew what outfit I was
• 54:21
  wearing when it happened. I mean, I was like, at that time
• 54:24
  when you and I, you know, I would just bring it all up and
• 54:28
  it would all come out on the table.
• 54:30
  So he was not dealing with that one infraction.
• 54:33
  He was dealing with all of my layered emotion from all of the
• 54:37
  infractions and probably all of the things from my childhood.
• 54:40
  And it's all coming together right here.
• 54:43
  And so I'm going to be unreasonable instead of
• 54:46
  reasonable. And so being able to separate
• 54:50
  that person from the problem. And you know, like right now
• 54:54
  we're watching a world crazy. And what does the Bible say?
• 54:57
  The wrath of man never works the righteous purposes of God.
• 55:05
  We do not have the right to kill people or threaten to hurt
• 55:10
  people that we disagree. With or to destroy them
• 55:13
  personally slander them or destroy them with their words.
• 55:15
  I mean, what are the seven things God hates?
• 55:18
  I mean, it's that's the slander, the sowing strife, those things.
• 55:22
  I mean, I just saw today where a anesthesiologist said I'm not
• 55:26
  going to work on anybody who doesn't politically align with
• 55:29
  me. And I'm like you would you took
• 55:31
  a vow to do no harm. That is anger.
• 55:35
  And that is that is wrath. That's wrath.
• 55:38
  That's wrath. It's D.
• 55:40
  It's not just like you're saying, it's not just the
• 55:41
  feeling of anger. It's now I'm going to weapon use
• 55:43
  the anger weaponized to attack weaponizing auditions.
• 55:47
  So I, I want to ask and I want to get into the world stuff
• 55:50
  happening because I think all of this actually has, we have a lot
• 55:53
  to learn about how we show up in the world right now, especially
• 55:56
  if we're fighting for good causes and things like that.
• 55:59
  But back to like mommy anger and just how to deal with impatience
• 56:03
  and, and all these things. And I'm thinking about my, one
• 56:05
  of my best girlfriends that had asked you this question a decade
• 56:07
  ago. And I think about myself this
• 56:09
  morning, right? So my one of my sons is fighting
• 56:12
  with my other son pushes him right another son younger.
• 56:17
  You like poor baby, right. You know you don't want this to
• 56:19
  happen. You don't you want them to learn
• 56:21
  to be gentle with each other, all of this stuff.
• 56:23
  So I raise my voice, I escalate right.
• 56:26
  And is that ever you think the right move to escalate the voice
• 56:29
  if there's? Danger.
• 56:30
  You should. Like if you stop doing that.
• 56:32
  Well, like, OK, like you know what if your your kid is, you
• 56:37
  know, you tell your son don't play in the street and you see
• 56:39
  them going into the. Street They can hurt themselves.
• 56:41
  Yeah, you want to raise your voice or you see your older son
• 56:44
  getting ready to hurt your younger son.
• 56:46
  Hey, you know, like you have there there is there is
• 56:50
  opportunity. I mean, God makes us able to
• 56:52
  yell. He makes us able to create a a
• 56:56
  heightened sense. But once you have the attention,
• 57:00
  you want to take it to the place where they don't, they don't
• 57:03
  remember your reaction. They remember the lesson.
• 57:05
  And I think for me as a child, when I had my mom screaming and
• 57:09
  yelling or hitting, I didn't even remember what I did wrong.
• 57:12
  I only remembered her reaction to me.
• 57:14
  And so I was, you know, doing it again and again and again
• 57:17
  because I didn't even know what I'd ever done was wrong.
• 57:20
  I just saw her overcharged reaction.
• 57:22
  And I think with so many parents, they are also trying to
• 57:26
  be their their their child's friend, and they're not their
• 57:30
  parents. So how do you deal with in the
• 57:32
  aftermath? What do you recommend so?
• 57:35
  I think humility is huge. Like, OK, I'll, I'll just tell
• 57:38
  you with, with me, you know, I remember having, you know, three
• 57:42
  boys, you know, under 5 and then, you know, then I had my
• 57:46
  4th baby and it was, it was probably more with three.
• 57:49
  I think I, I think I was already over this by the time I had
• 57:51
  Arjun, But I, I sat down with my boys and I said, you know how
• 57:55
  mommy is been yelling? They're like, yes.
• 57:59
  And I'm like, you know how like I'm holding a baby nursing and
• 58:02
  like slapping at one of the other, hey, stop that kind of
• 58:04
  thing. So you know, I'm doing that.
• 58:05
  And they're like, yes. And I said I'm not going to do
• 58:09
  that anymore. I'm not doing that anymore.
• 58:11
  And they're like, OK, And I said I'm going to say it one time.
• 58:17
  And in my head, I'm like, this isn't going to work.
• 58:19
  This is not working. And I said, and if you don't
• 58:22
  understand what I'm saying, you can ask me, but I'm going to say
• 58:27
  it one time and obedience is right away all the way and in a
• 58:32
  happy way. So then I said, OK, so if I come
• 58:35
  upstairs and you're watching Veggie Tales and I say I want
• 58:40
  you guys to clean up the playroom and you think, OK, I'll
• 58:44
  do that. When the next Veggie Tale is
• 58:47
  done and I come back upstairs and you're still just sitting
• 58:51
  there, am I going to think you've obeyed me?
• 58:55
  And they're like, no, because you're still sitting there,
• 58:57
  right? Yeah.
• 58:58
  But if you said, can we do it after this veggie tale?
• 59:02
  And I said, yes, that's fine. But if I say so, clarity is
• 59:06
  kindness. Give them very clear.
• 59:09
  So right away, all the way. And I said, God doesn't just
• 59:15
  discipline actions. He looks at the heart.
• 59:19
  And I said, so I want to be a good guardian of your heart.
• 59:22
  If if I say, hey, can you take out the trash you're like and
• 59:25
  you stomp out. That's not with a good attitude
• 59:31
  and a bad attitude and obedience is a bad combination.
• 59:35
  So we're going to. And then I said so, So older
• 59:38
  boys, if you had a younger brother, there's going to be
• 59:42
  consequences. I said blatant disrespect,
• 59:48
  consequences. How did you?
• 59:50
  Define pardon. How did you define blatant?
• 59:54
  Like name calling or just now. You can't tell me, you know.
• 59:58
  I just blatant it, you know? Just a little back talk.
• 1:00:01
  It's more just like full blown like blatant.
• 1:00:03
  Blatant, like it's usually that meant like, hey, you know,
• 1:00:06
  because I John traveled a lot. So there's a mom at home and and
• 1:00:10
  the sons are a little mad that the dad's not home more and they
• 1:00:14
  don't take it on the dad when he's home because they only have
• 1:00:16
  a little bit of time with him. So they take it on the mom and
• 1:00:19
  that was something that I saw with my my son when he Addison
• 1:00:22
  was 13. He was really rough with me.
• 1:00:26
  And finally, Wendy, I just sat down with him.
• 1:00:28
  I said, let's you know, I love you and actually I know you love
• 1:00:33
  me, but you're being really hard on me and who you're really mad
• 1:00:36
  at is your dad. And I said you, we, we need to
• 1:00:39
  have a talk. And he was like, mom, I feel
• 1:00:41
  like he's not here. I need him.
• 1:00:43
  I, I don't know what I'm going to talk to him about.
• 1:00:45
  And I'm trying like he's still in puberty.
• 1:00:48
  It's awkward. And I said, all right, all
• 1:00:50
  right, I hear you, but I'm not your enemy.
• 1:00:52
  I'm, I'm not I so I understand. So I called this older gentleman
• 1:00:58
  that was on our board and I said, I, I need your advice.
• 1:01:02
  And he said the most bizarre thing to me.
• 1:01:04
  He said, does Addison want to get married one day?
• 1:01:06
  I was like, he's like 1314 right now.
• 1:01:08
  I yes, I think so. He said, tell him he's going to
• 1:01:12
  be processing all of his life with the woman and he's getting
• 1:01:16
  a head start now. I was like, I don't know if he's
• 1:01:19
  going to fall for that, but I did.
• 1:01:22
  I came to him and I said, Addison, I know you wish your
• 1:01:23
  dad was here, but you're, you want to be married one day,
• 1:01:27
  right? He said, yeah.
• 1:01:28
  I said you're starting to process manhood with a woman
• 1:01:31
  right now. And he said, when your dad's
• 1:01:33
  home, I want you to have, I want you to have the best time with
• 1:01:37
  him, but I want you to actually talk to him.
• 1:01:41
  And instead of getting mad, ask him the things that you need to
• 1:01:44
  ask him. And what's so crazy?
• 1:01:46
  This gentleman, he was such a gift to our family.
• 1:01:49
  He literally just went home to be with the Lord.
• 1:01:51
  And he'd requested that Addison, my oldest son coming to his
• 1:01:55
  funeral. How sweet.
• 1:01:56
  And so Addison was there with his daughters.
• 1:01:59
  And and anyway, it's just, it's just so like there is, there is
• 1:02:04
  provision and there is ways of having conversations, but our
• 1:02:08
  family has A and we still have this, we have a virtue of fierce
• 1:02:14
  unity and we fight for unity. So if there's a conflict, we're
• 1:02:21
  like family meeting still, still, we're like that.
• 1:02:23
  We have, you know, kids down the street.
• 1:02:24
  We're like, we're all, no, this is worth this.
• 1:02:26
  We're working this out. And if there's voices raised in
• 1:02:30
  the middle of it, that's OK. But at the end, that's not, we
• 1:02:34
  don't end it with that. We end up with prayer.
• 1:02:36
  We end up with, OK, going forward.
• 1:02:39
  You know, what is unclear? What is, you know, like this is
• 1:02:42
  a lie. You know, I, I did an interview
• 1:02:44
  with Doctor Lee Warren. He's a neurosurgeon.
• 1:02:47
  He's got a book coming out and it's called, I think it's called
• 1:02:50
  something about doing brain surgery on yourself.
• 1:02:53
  And he said 80% of our perceptions about stuff, it's
• 1:02:57
  wrong. Like we take in information and
• 1:03:02
  then it have the wrong conclusions with it.
• 1:03:05
  And so if we're not renewing our mind with the word of God, if we
• 1:03:08
  are not like you talked about early on in a community of
• 1:03:10
  faith, because my first phone call when I when I did the thing
• 1:03:14
  with my son, my first phone call was to a friend and she actually
• 1:03:17
  said what you didn't, you didn't hurt your son.
• 1:03:20
  Like I I feel like that every other day.
• 1:03:22
  And like, don't worry too much about it.
• 1:03:24
  Don't be too hard on yourself. I didn't want an excuse because
• 1:03:28
  I had come way too close and so that's why I actually told my
• 1:03:31
  husband. See, and, and that like what
• 1:03:33
  you're saying right there, I think that's a point that I
• 1:03:35
  really want to dwell on for a minute because I am back to kind
• 1:03:40
  of even my, my little thing this morning.
• 1:03:42
  And again, there was like physical altercation about to
• 1:03:45
  take place. But I'm seeing in my parent and
• 1:03:48
  I'll just be very authentic here that I'm not as patient and as
• 1:03:52
  present as I need to be with my kids.
• 1:03:54
  I want to work on that and the patients, especially at my model
• 1:03:58
  growing up, my mother's amazing. She's the most generous person I
• 1:04:00
  know. I love your mom.
• 1:04:01
  She's. So amazing, but she was raised
• 1:04:03
  by this Spitfire Italian mother who was raised by and, and she
• 1:04:06
  had, you know, she overcame so much in her life.
• 1:04:08
  I mean, it's just amazing when I think about what she's what
• 1:04:10
  she's overcome and but you know, the the patterns that I was
• 1:04:13
  raised with, right? You want to take the good and
• 1:04:17
  improve the bad. That's and then my mother and my
• 1:04:19
  father would say this to us, especially my mom.
• 1:04:21
  She'd say I just want you guys to do better than I did, like
• 1:04:24
  that's I want. That for my.
• 1:04:25
  Kids, I love that. Yes, I want that.
• 1:04:27
  And so, so that's where I, I think I have been given so much
• 1:04:30
  My, my husband's a St. he's so patient.
• 1:04:32
  He's so wonderful. I've been given so much.
• 1:04:35
  I want to be a better mother. And I know my girlfriend who was
• 1:04:37
  reaching out to you a decade, you know, a few years back.
• 1:04:40
  I know that's her desire. And I know the women listening.
• 1:04:43
  We don't want to cut ourselves slack.
• 1:04:44
  We, we, we want not to obviously be realistic and be humble.
• 1:04:48
  Like we're not going to be perfect overnight.
• 1:04:50
  Not condemning, but yeah, not condemning, but we want to do
• 1:04:52
  better. Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  We don't because I, I do think there's AI do think there is a
• 1:04:57
  tendency today to be a little bit too forgiving of ourselves.
• 1:05:01
  Yeah. That might sound controversial.
• 1:05:03
  But I mean, it's more excusing ourselves.
• 1:05:05
  That's a better word. Yeah, that is a better word.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah, because you know that when there's interesting, it's
• 1:05:11
  difference between apology and confession.
• 1:05:15
  You know, apologetics is the defense of something.
• 1:05:17
  And so when my mom would say I'm really sorry I hit you, but you
• 1:05:21
  made me so mad. That's an apology.
• 1:05:23
  It's a defending confession is no hold bars.
• 1:05:27
  I should never have hit you. It doesn't make an excuse.
• 1:05:30
  It doesn't say, you know, your, your dad came home drunk or, or
• 1:05:35
  you know, my mom wasn't there for it doesn't make excuses.
• 1:05:38
  And so I think we've gotten into a culture of apology,
• 1:05:42
  justification, making excuses. And everybody's traumatized.
• 1:05:47
  Everybody, everybody has trauma where I mean, it's hilarious.
• 1:05:50
  I mean, I, I don't mean to make fun of it because I do believe
• 1:05:52
  there's real trauma, but there's also a bunch of nonsense going
• 1:05:56
  on and people have magnified the worst portions of their lives
• 1:06:01
  and forgotten the good, you know, And so I.
• 1:06:04
  I can I. Can see this areas of my
• 1:06:07
  childhood that were I could focus on just those or I can
• 1:06:12
  focus on my mom did better than her mother.
• 1:06:15
  Her mother left her, you know, and when my mom said to me, you
• 1:06:19
  know, I just didn't bond to you, bond with you, I said, you know
• 1:06:21
  what, mom, you did better. You did better than you had.
• 1:06:26
  And I didn't say I knew it. You know, I mean, to be honest
• 1:06:30
  with you, it was a relief. I thought, well, that explains a
• 1:06:32
  lot. That would have been helpful,
• 1:06:34
  but but you know, just. She had no bond with her mother.
• 1:06:36
  She. Had no bond with her mom, so she
• 1:06:38
  didn't know how to bond. Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  And here's the thing. We have this power.
• 1:06:43
  You, me. I mean, I'm hearing the humility
• 1:06:45
  in your voice. I I I wanted to do better.
• 1:06:50
  And I want my kids to do better. I don't want to keep making
• 1:06:52
  excuses. I don't want to perpetuate.
• 1:06:54
  And so I think that we get to the place where everybody is
• 1:06:58
  giving us excuses, but they're not giving us a way forward.
• 1:07:02
  And so like, literally when I wrote the book on anger, like I
• 1:07:06
  opened up with my ridiculousness.
• 1:07:09
  So, you know, breaking windows, denting a refrigerator, getting
• 1:07:13
  locked in the garage by my husband because he was where I
• 1:07:15
  was going to break something in a new house.
• 1:07:16
  I mean, like all this is so people are like, oh, I've never
• 1:07:20
  been as bad as that. And then you know how I had made
• 1:07:23
  excuses, had an entire resume and then came to the place where
• 1:07:28
  I was like, is this how I want to live?
• 1:07:30
  Do I want to carry all this trauma and excuses?
• 1:07:35
  Or do I actually want to live a life that is sanctified and have
• 1:07:40
  a practical way forward that my children see something
• 1:07:44
  different? And again, my kids are like I
• 1:07:47
  said, yeah, I've seen my boys do it better.
• 1:07:49
  And you know, I'm, I don't feel guilty because I mean, of course
• 1:07:53
  there's times I wish, oh gosh, I wish I'd known how to do that
• 1:07:57
  different. But I am so thrilled that
• 1:08:01
  they're doing it better. And you know, there's, I think
• 1:08:04
  even with your voice saying, you know what?
• 1:08:06
  I'm sorry that I was impatient. Here's what I want to see.
• 1:08:14
  I want to see both of you safe. You love each other.
• 1:08:18
  I want to see you protecting your younger brother, you know,
• 1:08:21
  just like, and this is so important.
• 1:08:24
  And to say and also to build him up because I think I'm like, we
• 1:08:27
  don't do that to our brothers. Like that's not nice.
• 1:08:29
  That's not. And I realized like.
• 1:08:30
  But if that's the the which is all.
• 1:08:33
  True. Yeah, I was going to say it is
• 1:08:34
  true. You don't want them doing that
• 1:08:35
  to. Them instead of saying you're
• 1:08:37
  like reminding him who he is, Yes, he is a good Big Brother.
• 1:08:39
  He is very loving and making sure like the intentionality
• 1:08:43
  behind the interaction is there as opposed to it being a
• 1:08:46
  reaction. It's an intentional response,
• 1:08:49
  yes. And I think sometimes I get into
• 1:08:51
  a pattern of reaction instead of intentional response for
• 1:08:55
  situations that are perfectly predictable because these are
• 1:08:57
  all, I mean, yes, in that moment I didn't know that that was
• 1:09:00
  going to happen. But you know, they're little
• 1:09:01
  kids, you know, you know all of the dynamics.
• 1:09:04
  So and I think practicing intentional response as opposed
• 1:09:07
  to reaction, reaction that comes with emotion because I'm upset
• 1:09:11
  or I'm concerned or I'm impatient or whatever it is.
• 1:09:13
  But emotion isn't always bad. It's attacking people with it.
• 1:09:17
  It's like you said, weaponizing it, weaponizing emotion is
• 1:09:21
  what's destructive. I mean, I don't think, I don't
• 1:09:24
  think Jesus was happy when he went into the temple and
• 1:09:27
  overturned the tables. And I'm sure a lot of people are
• 1:09:30
  mad about that. Like why would that was
• 1:09:31
  destructive? No, it was he was demonstrating
• 1:09:36
  what was upsetting, that his father's house was to be a House
• 1:09:39
  of prayer. And they turn it into a den of,
• 1:09:42
  you know, they were thieving and lying and unjust measures and
• 1:09:46
  weights. But you know, for me like I, I
• 1:09:49
  remember my boys being teenagers and one of them melt off at me
• 1:09:52
  and I looked him. I said, I will fly over this
• 1:09:57
  kitchen counter and I will take you down to the ground if you
• 1:10:01
  talk to me like that again. And my my son was like you,
• 1:10:06
  she's like backing away, but he's like, you're not, you're
• 1:10:09
  not that strong. I said, oh, God will empower me.
• 1:10:12
  You will not talk like that. You will not do that in front of
• 1:10:15
  your brothers. But that was my tone.
• 1:10:17
  I mean, I was like, I will. That's a good.
• 1:10:19
  Tone, you would say. I it was, I realized first
• 1:10:23
  child. He sets the pattern for the
• 1:10:25
  other one. I know my first is so strong, so
• 1:10:28
  strong. And and and he my first one, he
• 1:10:32
  it was so funny. My third son was.
• 1:10:34
  But I but I'm imagining, I know no, no, I know that was a
• 1:10:36
  teenager at the time, but I'm imagining being like when my my
• 1:10:39
  son, if he really acts up as the first one, right, speaking to
• 1:10:42
  him so strongly, he would just, I think it would escalate him.
• 1:10:45
  Yeah, well, I think I just said this was the way I know you
• 1:10:48
  think because you're I think he was probably 15-16.
• 1:10:52
  You think you're bigger than me. This is not this is not already.
• 1:10:55
  I remember we were, it was after church one time and it was so
• 1:10:58
  funny. They he was, he would get so
• 1:11:00
  upset because people would come up to me and ask me questions or
• 1:11:03
  ask me for prayer or, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:11:06
  And and he would stand behind me and say tell us people to get an
• 1:11:09
  appointment. I was like, Oh my gosh, you
• 1:11:12
  know, he'd want to go home and watch football.
• 1:11:13
  And he pushed, he'd like, pushed on me, like push, like
• 1:11:16
  physically, like trying to push me out of the.
• 1:11:18
  And I and I had told him a number of times, listen, I'm not
• 1:11:24
  a minister as a profession. I'm a minister as that's my
• 1:11:28
  life. Whether I'm in the grocery store
• 1:11:30
  or whether I'm in a pulpit, this is who I am and this is who we
• 1:11:34
  are. And we don't tell people.
• 1:11:37
  Get an appointment. Hurry up.
• 1:11:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I said, no, no.
• 1:11:40
  So we get in the car and I think I made him late for some
• 1:11:42
  watching some football game. And he was like mouthing off to
• 1:11:45
  me in the car. And you, we live pretty close to
• 1:11:49
  the church. But I just pulled off the side
• 1:11:50
  of the road and I looked at him and I said, I think he going to
• 1:11:53
  need to walk home. You are way wound up.
• 1:11:57
  And the three boys in the back seat.
• 1:12:00
  So he's shotgun the three boys in the back seat.
• 1:12:02
  It's just me, me and the boys. And he was like, if, if I walk
• 1:12:07
  home, people from the church are going to see me.
• 1:12:09
  I said I I forgot more than for the people in the church and
• 1:12:13
  said you, you need to walk home. You.
• 1:12:15
  You. Are away with home.
• 1:12:16
  It, I mean, it was going to be like 1/2 an hour walk.
• 1:12:18
  It wasn't it was he was 15. He was, he was 15 or 16.
• 1:12:22
  He was 15. I think he was 15.
• 1:12:24
  So he couldn't drive. He walked home.
• 1:12:25
  So he as he gets out of the car, he yells, I hate you.
• 1:12:29
  And, and I just very calmly, I wrote down the I'm, I'm sorry,
• 1:12:33
  did you say something? Did you say something?
• 1:12:36
  And the boys in the back seat said, mom, he said he hates you.
• 1:12:41
  And and then I was like, they said, don't cave in, the sun's
• 1:12:48
  in the back said don't cave in. And so I just said, yeah, I just
• 1:12:53
  rolled up the window and I, I drove.
• 1:12:55
  And literally he, he actually, someone saw him and picked him
• 1:12:58
  up and drove him home. He'd and I remember I went
• 1:13:01
  through the kitchen, went into my bedroom, went in through like
• 1:13:04
  our closet was in our bathroom, went to the closet and cried
• 1:13:08
  like a baby because my I did because my son said he hated me.
• 1:13:12
  But I stayed really calm. And while I was in there, my
• 1:13:16
  younger boys wrote me a letter and they said, mom, we love you
• 1:13:21
  so much. We promise we'll never go into
• 1:13:24
  the mean stage. And they signed it.
• 1:13:26
  It was so cute. And they never did.
• 1:13:28
  My youngest son and my third son wrote this letter.
• 1:13:31
  They. Saw you stand up too.
• 1:13:33
  They wanted me to be and I didn't yell.
• 1:13:35
  I didn't yell, but there was a consequence.
• 1:13:37
  But were you worried that he let me OK, I'm just again being very
• 1:13:42
  raw here with my experience, my limited experience of motherhood
• 1:13:45
  right now, which I'm navigating and praise pray God like I can
• 1:13:48
  improve. But I'm imagining that me being
• 1:13:51
  in that situation when if my kid child was older and everything
• 1:13:54
  else I would be afraid of them feeling some like deep
• 1:13:58
  primordial abandonment and having issues of abandonment if.
• 1:14:01
  I made a walk home. Yeah, but maybe I'm too like
• 1:14:05
  modernized with, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:14:07
  That's that's the. I just, I mean, to be honest
• 1:14:09
  with you guys have a lot of testosterone and he was going
• 1:14:12
  to, he doesn't need to walk. I mean, he needed to be.
• 1:14:15
  He needed to be. Like it like.
• 1:14:16
  Physically walking, I mean it it.
• 1:14:20
  Was safe. I mean, it wasn't like.
• 1:14:22
  Daylight safe, Yes, the like blocks away from our house.
• 1:14:27
  Not miles. You know, blocks.
• 1:14:30
  I guess I'm thinking of my sixth year.
• 1:14:31
  I mean, he's 6. I would never do that to a six
• 1:14:33
  year old. He was a very different
• 1:14:34
  situation. Yeah.
• 1:14:36
  So I and I think that's something.
• 1:14:38
  Age appropriate. It's huge.
• 1:14:39
  I would never have a 5 year old walk home.
• 1:14:41
  Yeah, a teenage boy that is 6 foot.
• 1:14:44
  Yeah, and I think one of my personal struggles that I'm
• 1:14:47
  learning to navigate is being overly soft or empathetic with
• 1:14:52
  my own kids where I'm not that you can be overly soft with your
• 1:14:55
  child, but meaning I'm AI can be maybe too much of A pushover or
• 1:14:58
  too nice because I. Love them so much.
• 1:15:02
  Right, but I think that's where it's navigating like don't be so
• 1:15:05
  strong that you're harsh or impatient or angry, right?
• 1:15:09
  And then don't be so weak that you're passive and you're not.
• 1:15:12
  You don't have boundaries and you don't make sure that they
• 1:15:14
  know your word is your word. And I think those two extremes
• 1:15:19
  I'm trying to learn to navigate between because sometimes I'm
• 1:15:22
  like, well, I don't want to, you know, make him hurt or make him
• 1:15:24
  sad. Like go to your like like this
• 1:15:26
  morning was like you have to go to a time out and then he like
• 1:15:30
  says like you, you're so why could you do this to me?
• 1:15:32
  I mean, that's kind of like his route that he goes to like
• 1:15:35
  almost like the self pitying route.
• 1:15:36
  I'm like, it's a time out and you're like hurt your.
• 1:15:39
  Brother, I didn't. Do know?
• 1:15:40
  You made a choice. I mean, as long as he
• 1:15:43
  understands that's a consequence.
• 1:15:44
  You hit your brother right? You're going to have some.
• 1:15:46
  Time and he knows, yeah. Yeah, and so you can't let him
• 1:15:49
  emotionally manipulate you. It's shocking how quick children
• 1:15:54
  learn how to like make you feel guilty about something that they
• 1:15:59
  they did not not you did, but you know, like again, I I don't
• 1:16:03
  think you haven't like the kind of things that cause real big
• 1:16:07
  problems are people that are physically abusive, verbally
• 1:16:11
  abusive and then justify it. I think there's every parent can
• 1:16:17
  at some go to bed at the end of the night and say I yelled when
• 1:16:23
  I shouldn't have. I didn't follow through with
• 1:16:26
  that. I spanked my child and I
• 1:16:29
  shouldn't have or I didn't spank them and I should have.
• 1:16:33
  You know, I just, I mean every, we all as parents have a list
• 1:16:37
  every single day of the things we wish we would have done
• 1:16:41
  better, wish we could do better. But at the end of the day, moms
• 1:16:45
  need mercy as well. They need mercy.
• 1:16:47
  And if they carry the weight of all their failures, then they
• 1:16:50
  start making excuses or they do what you do.
• 1:16:54
  OK, I was too hard yesterday, so I'm going to be too passive
• 1:16:57
  today. And then that's confusing to
• 1:16:58
  your kids because they're like, what's going on now is, is there
• 1:17:01
  going to be a, is there no consequence?
• 1:17:02
  Is this is? And then, you know, they'll push
• 1:17:04
  the, they'll push it, they'll push the they'll push the
• 1:17:06
  boundaries and they'll be like, OK, mom's a pushover.
• 1:17:10
  If I say you're being mean, she she'll renege on something, you
• 1:17:15
  know, or whatever. And then he said time out
• 1:17:16
  please, please can I come out please.
• 1:17:18
  I'm so sorry. You're like, can I let him out
• 1:17:20
  of jail a minute? Literally like, no, you got to
• 1:17:23
  do the the full 5 minutes because otherwise, like, you
• 1:17:26
  know, the sweet talk is going to overcut.
• 1:17:28
  So it, it, it, it, I mean, I find this difficult.
• 1:17:31
  I find it difficult to hold the consistency over time.
• 1:17:35
  And you and your husband need to sit down and do.
• 1:17:37
  That Well, he's so good my. But just like, say this is like,
• 1:17:39
  I want to be consistent. Yeah.
• 1:17:41
  So help me like, because I'll cave here or and then sit down
• 1:17:46
  with your kids and say your dad and I talked, you know, this is
• 1:17:49
  what we're going to do going forward.
• 1:17:51
  This is how you know, if, if this happens, this is like, so
• 1:17:54
  there's just clear because I've been inconsistent with you.
• 1:17:57
  I'm not saying, you know, that's what I do with my kids.
• 1:17:59
  I said I've been inconsistent. I've been yelling, I've been
• 1:18:02
  threatening and then not doing anything.
• 1:18:04
  I'd be like, I'm spanking everybody and I'd spank nobody.
• 1:18:06
  So like they were like, like she's just talking.
• 1:18:09
  She's just yelling. Like they thought I was just a
• 1:18:11
  crazy woman and I thought I am a crazy woman.
• 1:18:13
  I thought this is disorder. But when there was clarity, my
• 1:18:18
  kids responded to that and I've watched my sons are very clear
• 1:18:22
  with their kids. They don't raise their voice,
• 1:18:25
  but there's consequence. And one time my sons, my sons
• 1:18:29
  son was acting up with his wife. And you know, like his mother
• 1:18:34
  and my daughter-in-law said to my son, go down and apologize to
• 1:18:38
  your mom. This is why you're acting up
• 1:18:41
  when you were young. This is coming out.
• 1:18:43
  And your son now with me, you go and apologize to your mom.
• 1:18:45
  And he's like, I've already done that.
• 1:18:47
  I've already apologized. But yeah, I mean, I just feel
• 1:18:49
  like every family has this beautiful opportunity.
• 1:18:53
  But mom, rage is more than often excused on social media rather
• 1:19:01
  than empowered to be constructive Again.
• 1:19:04
  Rage is never constructive. Anger, anger and then anger.
• 1:19:09
  For me, I had to. I have to step back because I
• 1:19:14
  don't want to. I didn't want to do anything in
• 1:19:16
  anger. Like what won me what I loved
• 1:19:19
  about you so much as I knew how passionate you were about
• 1:19:22
  pro-life. And I watched people come after
• 1:19:26
  you and I want to say mean things to those people.
• 1:19:29
  And yet you are always clear, but you're always kind and
• 1:19:35
  you're always you don't you don't make it personal.
• 1:19:39
  You don't attack the person, no matter how they much attack you.
• 1:19:43
  You go right back to the principal and basically this is
• 1:19:47
  life. And it's saying you do this
• 1:19:49
  perfectly well. And in when you're talking about
• 1:19:53
  debates, pro-life, you know, you do you're, you're probably doing
• 1:19:58
  better than you realize, Lila. My husband tells me when it
• 1:20:01
  comes to the kids, he thinks one of I need to be more firm.
• 1:20:05
  That's so I'm like, I was, I raised my voice this morning.
• 1:20:09
  I'm like, you were just you were speaking in an intense tone
• 1:20:12
  because he was there was a almost getting hurt.
• 1:20:14
  So I think if anything, I need to work on consistent firmness.
• 1:20:18
  And of course, because I'm, I am very affectionate with my kids,
• 1:20:22
  with our kids. And so I think I'm coming out of
• 1:20:25
  this from the bleeding heart of like, Oh, I just, I just don't
• 1:20:27
  want to. I don't more traumatize them.
• 1:20:29
  I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to.
• 1:20:30
  You talking strong to a young boy is not going to.
• 1:20:33
  Calling me, I know I. Feel like you're more
• 1:20:35
  traumatized by it than he's I. Think that's true.
• 1:20:38
  I do think that's true. And my husband tells me this.
• 1:20:40
  So I think I probably need to listen to my husband more and
• 1:20:42
  just really focus on firm intentionality with my children
• 1:20:48
  and, and make sure that there's like regular communication about
• 1:20:50
  these are the expectations and this is that these are the rules
• 1:20:52
  and everything else. And the girlfriend that, you
• 1:20:56
  know, was so excited to she's going to love this interview and
• 1:20:58
  she was so excited to read your book and everything else.
• 1:21:00
  She's more of the Spitfire type personality, so I think I I can
• 1:21:06
  lose my patience too. But her she's more of the
• 1:21:08
  personality that can react more quickly and be more aggressive,
• 1:21:12
  right? So her struggle would be
• 1:21:13
  different than maybe my struggles.
• 1:21:15
  I have both of the struggles. So I don't think I'm like off
• 1:21:17
  the hook for impatient struggles because as I said, I do struggle
• 1:21:19
  with impatience. But I, I didn't struggle with
• 1:21:22
  impatience. I just struggle with anger.
• 1:21:24
  My husband just and and I would say this, I have a long fuse,
• 1:21:27
  but what would happen is I had a long fuse, but then when it went
• 1:21:31
  off, it was an atomic bomb. It was like there was no
• 1:21:35
  reasoning with me. It was ridiculous.
• 1:21:36
  Yeah, so and it was, it was everything.
• 1:21:39
  And and John was like, whoa, whoa, what just happened?
• 1:21:42
  And he did not come from a family that talked about things.
• 1:21:48
  And I came from a family that fought all the time but didn't
• 1:21:50
  ever resolve anything. So my family fought no
• 1:21:53
  resolution. His family avoided no
• 1:21:56
  resolution. And so we have two people that
• 1:21:58
  don't know. And so he's it like it just was
• 1:22:01
  a big clash. They don't know resolution.
• 1:22:03
  Yeah. So how do you do resolution?
• 1:22:06
  You put the problem on the other side of the table.
• 1:22:08
  I think we might have said this when we were with you.
• 1:22:10
  Like most couples when there is an argument or parents, even
• 1:22:14
  with their kids, like, OK, you're frustrated with your
• 1:22:17
  brother and you hit him. That's the problem, hitting the
• 1:22:20
  brother. So your son's not the problem.
• 1:22:22
  The problem is he doesn't know how to deal with his frustration
• 1:22:26
  with his brother in a constructive way.
• 1:22:28
  So that's the problem. So most people see the they're
• 1:22:32
  each on the opposite side of the table, your son on one side, you
• 1:22:35
  are on the other as a parent or your husband on one side, the
• 1:22:38
  wife on the other side, and the problems in the center.
• 1:22:40
  And they push it back and forth between each other instead of
• 1:22:42
  seeing your son and you are on the same side.
• 1:22:45
  And the problem is you're frustrated with your brother.
• 1:22:48
  So you're like, together, let's figure this out.
• 1:22:51
  When you're frustrated with your brother, I know you want to hit
• 1:22:54
  him, but that's not allowed. So what can you do?
• 1:22:58
  Let's talk about what you can do.
• 1:22:59
  I can walk away. I can come to you, you know, but
• 1:23:02
  we don't want to do a tattletale thing all the time.
• 1:23:05
  So like you, you, you solve, you attack the problem and not the
• 1:23:08
  person. And usually it doesn't start
• 1:23:10
  that way. I mean, our family just had a
• 1:23:12
  little like a, a couple of us, we had just a little come to
• 1:23:15
  come to Jesus and it felt like the people were getting attacked
• 1:23:19
  and we just stayed really calm and we let them be heard.
• 1:23:25
  And then we said, OK, now let's talk about how we move forward
• 1:23:28
  with this because this is not, you're not perceiving this
• 1:23:32
  correctly and you're making something really big out of
• 1:23:36
  something that is not even accurate.
• 1:23:38
  And again, so I think, I think as moms, we forget that our kids
• 1:23:43
  have actually a lot of emotional intelligence with where they can
• 1:23:47
  say I mishandled that, but they just don't know how to handle it
• 1:23:50
  correctly. So let's talk about constructive
• 1:23:52
  ways. And that way it isn't just you
• 1:23:55
  do it wrong, you get spanked, you do it wrong, you go in time
• 1:23:57
  out, you do it wrong, you lose the toy.
• 1:23:59
  Like we, you know, consequences are good, but you don't want to
• 1:24:02
  constantly consequence, you want to actually have a strategy for
• 1:24:05
  them to move into a a place of constructive rather than
• 1:24:08
  consequence. To know how to manage them their
• 1:24:10
  own. Emotions.
• 1:24:11
  Their own emotions. Well, I think so like this
• 1:24:13
  morning and not to like over dwell in the situation, but I
• 1:24:15
  think it was really a good one to take into the conversation
• 1:24:18
  with you because I was like, I I could have done this differently
• 1:24:20
  and I'm not really sure what different looks like.
• 1:24:22
  So he was frustrated. They were playing Legos.
• 1:24:25
  We were reading books, playing Legos.
• 1:24:27
  He was playing Legos and the one special Lego and this intricate
• 1:24:30
  thing that he was building, the other son, he was doing
• 1:24:33
  something else, had taken the one little special piece that he
• 1:24:35
  had spent all this time finding. But at the same time he takes
• 1:24:38
  the other. They all would take each other's
• 1:24:39
  pieces and he wasn't playing with it in that moment.
• 1:24:41
  So it was a little, you know, unreasonable that he like owns
• 1:24:44
  the Lego now that we all share the Legos anyway.
• 1:24:46
  So that was the beginning of the altercation.
• 1:24:49
  And in that situation, he knows to share.
• 1:24:51
  He knows that these are not just his Legos.
• 1:24:53
  You share all the Legos. The other son did it very
• 1:24:55
  innocently, you know, take that Lego, etcetera.
• 1:24:58
  And he was overreacting and threatening violence, you know,
• 1:25:01
  because of the younger son. So for me, it wasn't like, OK,
• 1:25:04
  let's deal with your anger about you being frustrated about
• 1:25:07
  losing your Lego because he get he, you know, some certain kids
• 1:25:09
  get especially fixated on things.
• 1:25:10
  Other kids are more easygoing. What would you have done?
• 1:25:15
  Just go to your room. No, no.
• 1:25:17
  Well, I mean, did he actually hit his brother?
• 1:25:18
  Yes, OK. Yeah, he, he started, there was
• 1:25:20
  a first hit and then there were going to be more, more pummeling
• 1:25:23
  after that. Yeah.
• 1:25:24
  So I mean I I. There was a shove and then there
• 1:25:26
  was going to be pummeling. Yeah, I mean, there was
• 1:25:28
  obviously frustration. Because the other brother's
• 1:25:29
  tough too, and he wasn't going to give back the leg.
• 1:25:31
  Oh, he's like this. He's smaller, but he's he's.
• 1:25:34
  Just as strong. He's not giving back my second
• 1:25:36
  son. Like he, like I remember Addison
• 1:25:40
  pushed him too far one time and like Addison would would be
• 1:25:45
  upset and get physical with him. But when Austin got bigger,
• 1:25:49
  there was absolutely no restraint like Addison always
• 1:25:51
  had. First born restraint.
• 1:25:53
  My second son, I think he might have broken his brother's nose
• 1:25:56
  at one point. Well, that's my that's our
• 1:25:58
  model. You know, this is, I had to
• 1:26:00
  separate. Fearless.
• 1:26:00
  Yeah. No, I mean the second, the
• 1:26:02
  second ones tend to be a little, a little fearless.
• 1:26:05
  The first one is a little more cautious.
• 1:26:07
  You know, let's, let's keep everybody alive.
• 1:26:09
  My second son, I was like, Oh my gosh.
• 1:26:11
  So I'm like, do not, do not push him.
• 1:26:13
  Do not push him. You'll be.
• 1:26:14
  They were, they were, they were playing.
• 1:26:15
  They went. We took him to the hair, get a
• 1:26:17
  haircut. They were watching WWE, you know
• 1:26:20
  where the guys tripped out of their underwear and they're.
• 1:26:22
  Like my two boys. At the barbershop, my little
• 1:26:24
  boys and then they come home, they share like their underwear
• 1:26:27
  that evening, of course, they got 2 socks on their hands and
• 1:26:30
  they're fighting. And my younger 1 keeps like
• 1:26:33
  beating the older one. Yeah.
• 1:26:34
  And I was like, guys, if you hurt each other, it's not OK.
• 1:26:37
  But if you play, you can do this a little bit.
• 1:26:38
  I you know, I don't want to be over control like after so but
• 1:26:40
  so the the younger one kept beating the older one and after
• 1:26:43
  as I said, oh, I said, Peter, that was so nice of you to let
• 1:26:46
  Leo win like you did Such a that was such a nice Big Brother
• 1:26:48
  thing to do. I kind of took him aside and he
• 1:26:50
  said no, he was beating me, mom. No, it's you know what, again, I
• 1:26:55
  love that you're laughing about it because you have to have a
• 1:26:57
  sense of humor. But I I do think, yeah, again,
• 1:27:00
  yeah. If I mean, if the first born is
• 1:27:03
  really frustrated, this was his piece.
• 1:27:05
  He sounds like he's really justice oriented.
• 1:27:08
  He's like, this isn't right. This is, you know, and and the
• 1:27:12
  the second brother's like, I'm sorry, I just had it.
• 1:27:15
  I didn't. Know he wasn't sorry.
• 1:27:17
  He wasn't sorry. Is like a yeah.
• 1:27:20
  Yeah. So I don't know.
• 1:27:21
  I mean, I just think, I think you're being hard on yourself.
• 1:27:24
  I'm over analyzing, I do. Think you're very hard on
• 1:27:26
  yourself, but it it did not justify hitting.
• 1:27:29
  Yeah. No, no, it did.
• 1:27:30
  Not and I don't know that ever older brother justifying hitting
• 1:27:34
  and that's what I told him. I said you're the older.
• 1:27:36
  Brother, you cannot hate your younger.
• 1:27:37
  Brother, that's what we said. We you are the protector.
• 1:27:40
  You are not the you are not the discipline.
• 1:27:42
  You do not punish your brother. You do not threaten your
• 1:27:45
  brother. I came home from a trip and I
• 1:27:47
  remember my oldest son had shot my other, the other brothers
• 1:27:51
  with like a paintball gun or something in the back lined him
• 1:27:54
  up. Oldest.
• 1:27:56
  Yes, I was like, give me the gun.
• 1:27:58
  Like you'll never see it again. I just like, I like it's gone.
• 1:28:01
  It's gone. Like, what were you thinking?
• 1:28:03
  Yeah, what were you thinking? That was insane.
• 1:28:06
  So yeah, it gets. Well, and I think my oldest son,
• 1:28:09
  he's so verbal and he's so intelligent and he says like.
• 1:28:12
  You forget Mommy Shun. Well, and he also said stuff
• 1:28:14
  like he's like, mom, you raised your voice with me.
• 1:28:16
  You, if you raise your voice with me, you teach me to raise
• 1:28:18
  my voice. So I'm like, I, I think I just
• 1:28:21
  need to be, you know, son, I. Feel like that you know he's not
• 1:28:28
  a nice. Thing and my mom has.
• 1:28:29
  A nice and you're beautiful heart.
• 1:28:31
  Against you. To say moms can raise their
• 1:28:34
  voice. Kids don't raise their voice to
• 1:28:36
  the moms you know. And I raised, I raised my voice
• 1:28:40
  because you were doing something.
• 1:28:42
  That was dangerous, going to hurt your brother to.
• 1:28:44
  Your younger brother all. Right.
• 1:28:46
  Yeah, this is, this is you're. Absolved.
• 1:28:48
  You're absolved. You're absolved.
• 1:28:50
  It's it's all good. No.
• 1:28:51
  And and you know, again, he doesn't, he doesn't get to say
• 1:28:54
  that to you. Yeah, he he, he doesn't.
• 1:28:57
  I mean, he can say it, but he's not your parent.
• 1:29:01
  And I think too many parents are trying to be their kids friends
• 1:29:04
  and they're forgetting to be their parent right now.
• 1:29:06
  You are the protector. You are the police of his
• 1:29:10
  behavior. This is not the season where he
• 1:29:12
  gets to come back to you and say, well, if you raise your
• 1:29:15
  voice, I raise my voice like. He's yeah, of course.
• 1:29:19
  He's very smart. No, he's smart.
• 1:29:20
  He's smart, but don't let it make you feel guilty.
• 1:29:22
  Is what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm glad he's smart.
• 1:29:24
  Oh yeah, yeah. Now this was.
• 1:29:25
  This was that was a good a good cycle analyzation my parenting
• 1:29:29
  episode this morning. But I think that I think the
• 1:29:32
  intentional responsive response, reaction or response, not
• 1:29:36
  reaction and then not getting and I don't think I ever I've
• 1:29:41
  never I don't think I've ever raged.
• 1:29:42
  So I think maybe I'm also attacking this from the
• 1:29:45
  perspective of someone that is over.
• 1:29:48
  It needs to be more firm actually, as opposed to oh, I'm
• 1:29:52
  I have a rage issue. It's more like actually Lila you
• 1:29:54
  have a a softy issue. You need to be more consistent
• 1:29:57
  and be more form firm. Well, and maybe you're reacting
• 1:30:00
  to I don't want to do the other. Exactly.
• 1:30:03
  So you're compensating the other way.
• 1:30:05
  Yeah. Because what you had the spicy
• 1:30:08
  Italian women in your background.
• 1:30:09
  You're like, I'm going to go overcorrect this way.
• 1:30:12
  And you know, and it's, I mean, I feel like we've covered so
• 1:30:14
  much ground. So like there is there are
• 1:30:16
  things that are spiritual and there are things that are
• 1:30:19
  pattern and there are things that, you know, we just didn't
• 1:30:23
  have modeled for us that we need to do.
• 1:30:25
  And so, you know, for me, even praying over my kids when they
• 1:30:28
  were asleep, just praying over them, praying peace over them,
• 1:30:32
  praying Scripture over them that they're a disciples taught of
• 1:30:34
  the Lord. And great is their peace and
• 1:30:36
  undisturbed composure that they're for signs and wonders
• 1:30:38
  and miracles that they're not for death and destruction.
• 1:30:41
  Just praying over them when they're asleep, praying over
• 1:30:43
  them before I put them to bed. Those sometimes I would see my
• 1:30:46
  son, like, agitated about something and he didn't even
• 1:30:49
  know what he's agitated about. And I'd pray over them while
• 1:30:51
  they were asleep. And when they got up, there were
• 1:30:53
  different, different child. How beautiful.
• 1:30:55
  Yeah. And they just don't.
• 1:30:56
  I mean, a prayer is. What about the role of self-care
• 1:30:59
  in this? That's a big thing that's talked
• 1:31:01
  a lot about a lot today that oh, if you have lose your patience
• 1:31:06
  or you have issues in your parenting, you're not taking
• 1:31:08
  good enough care of yourself as a mom.
• 1:31:10
  You know, for I don't, I mean, Lila, almost like self-care
• 1:31:13
  became like another thing to do for me.
• 1:31:15
  It's like another list. I mean, I think reading the
• 1:31:17
  Bible is self-care. I think prayer is self-care.
• 1:31:20
  I I think going for a walk is self-care sometimes, yeah.
• 1:31:25
  I mean, sometimes if you're overly tired and you know,
• 1:31:28
  didn't sleep good or have something unresolved with your
• 1:31:31
  husband. Yeah.
• 1:31:32
  But I mean, I just feel like sometimes self focus is just
• 1:31:37
  over emphasized in our culture right now.
• 1:31:42
  I mean, I, I, I if taking a long bath, it goes a long way for me.
• 1:31:46
  I mean, it's great, but we can't deep be dependent every single
• 1:31:51
  day is going to have great space for self-care.
• 1:31:53
  I just, I don't think that's reasonable, especially when you
• 1:31:56
  have young kids. I mean it, I called it the
• 1:31:59
  blessed blur. I just remember it was like, OK,
• 1:32:02
  everybody's alive still no one has stitches today.
• 1:32:04
  It's amazing for all. And we're going to bed and I get
• 1:32:07
  up the next day and start again and again.
• 1:32:09
  I loved being a mom. It's my favorite thing I ever
• 1:32:12
  did. But I didn't have this list
• 1:32:14
  about self-care. I don't know.
• 1:32:17
  I mean, I'm, I'm 65. Maybe we just look at everything
• 1:32:22
  differently. I was just happy if I took a
• 1:32:25
  shower. So I mean, I think that's also
• 1:32:27
  expectations. I think our expectations are out
• 1:32:29
  of whack for my generation of women because we are told like,
• 1:32:33
  oh, you need these things and. Present on social media, yes.
• 1:32:37
  Like I didn't have any audience I had to present for.
• 1:32:40
  I could go to the grocery store looking like I was a street
• 1:32:43
  person and nobody, you know, wasn't going to be recorded on
• 1:32:46
  somebody's phone. You know, I, I was always
• 1:32:49
  thinking that people are going to be like, oh, we need to show
• 1:32:51
  you the video of what your wife looks like when you're not in
• 1:32:54
  town, Mr. Previer, Like this is what her kids look like.
• 1:32:57
  This is what she looks like. I mean, I, I didn't have any
• 1:33:00
  audience that was critiquing and watching and, and looking at me
• 1:33:04
  and measuring and, and then I also didn't think my children
• 1:33:08
  were content. And I think that's a huge thing.
• 1:33:12
  Like, if you're not raising your children for godliness, what
• 1:33:16
  you're raising them for content, who are you actually really
• 1:33:20
  focused on? It feels like it's a problem for
• 1:33:23
  me. Do you feel like you're seeing
• 1:33:25
  that more of that today, even in Christian circles?
• 1:33:28
  Because certainly it's happening everywhere, but.
• 1:33:29
  Yes, 100%. Where the child is being trained
• 1:33:32
  for performing for this external audience as opposed to being
• 1:33:35
  trained up in the Lord and trained up in you know, how God
• 1:33:38
  is. And just people, you know,
• 1:33:41
  opening up there like, oh, this is my world.
• 1:33:43
  This is, I had this conversation with my son today and I put it
• 1:33:46
  on social media. Well, maybe that should have
• 1:33:50
  been private. Maybe even if it, you know, and
• 1:33:54
  sometimes people have a positive reaction.
• 1:33:56
  Some people I'm super don't like.
• 1:33:58
  Do you really want? Is there no area of your life
• 1:34:01
  that feels private anymore that you can have the freedom to make
• 1:34:05
  mistakes or have conversations and your kids don't have to
• 1:34:08
  worry that you're going to use it as content on your social
• 1:34:10
  media? I don't know.
• 1:34:11
  There's just, I don't know. I, I feel like we have forgotten
• 1:34:15
  that we have the right to have some privacy.
• 1:34:18
  And, you know, there's intimacy and there's things in the spirit
• 1:34:22
  that are sacred and they're holy.
• 1:34:25
  And if you put them out of the right environment and context,
• 1:34:29
  it becomes pornographic. No, seriously, I mean, I, I told
• 1:34:33
  my husband there was so many times I see things and I'm like
• 1:34:36
  that, that's almost like prayer porn.
• 1:34:39
  I know this sounds really crazy, but there's things that when
• 1:34:42
  you're praying, it's intimate. And when you take what is
• 1:34:45
  intimate and you put it out for everybody, you're, you don't
• 1:34:49
  even know who you're doing that with.
• 1:34:50
  Like for example, and, and again, you guys can edit it
• 1:34:54
  however you want, but what happens between my husband and I
• 1:34:57
  in our bedroom is holy and it's sacred and it's intimate.
• 1:35:01
  But if we record it and we put it on social media, now it's
• 1:35:05
  pornographic. And again, I don't, I think that
• 1:35:07
  we are playing to audiences that have no place in our life and
• 1:35:12
  we're forgetting the one that we should be worshipping and
• 1:35:15
  consecrating our life to. We're not living sacred lives.
• 1:35:19
  We're we're living the lives that are and like content
• 1:35:22
  creation lives. Are you talking about social
• 1:35:25
  media or just, you know, people who have sort of any kind of a
• 1:35:28
  public work or ministry filming intimate moments in their home
• 1:35:33
  and then regularly making content out of it?
• 1:35:35
  Or what do you mean when you say like?
• 1:35:37
  It's almost being quantified. I saw some I saw some beautiful
• 1:35:41
  prayer meetings where people are praying for the nations and
• 1:35:43
  praying for angelic, you know, it it intervention and and in
• 1:35:49
  that setting it works. But when you put it up, you
• 1:35:53
  know, it like, OK, and the scripture says do not give dogs
• 1:35:58
  what is sacred and do not cast your pearls before swine.
• 1:36:02
  And so the onus is on the people carrying the sacred things.
• 1:36:06
  So there are things and conversations and things that
• 1:36:10
  happen that I think sometimes people don't know how to hide it
• 1:36:13
  in their heart. Like Mary, she didn't like go
• 1:36:15
  out and be like, Hey everybody, I'm carrying, you know, the
• 1:36:18
  Messiah, Emmanuel, God with, you know, like she. 47 of my
• 1:36:22
  pregnancy, yeah. She.
• 1:36:24
  Yeah, exactly. We got one, we got a snapshot of
• 1:36:27
  her pregnancy when she went to see Elizabeth, and that was like
• 1:36:29
  the longest thing she ever said in Scripture was the Magnificat.
• 1:36:32
  It's that beautiful prayer. All generations will call me
• 1:36:35
  blessed and. Elizabeth was the same way
• 1:36:36
  because the Angel had to tell Mary that Elizabeth was.
• 1:36:39
  Pregnant, right? You know, your cousin Elizabeth,
• 1:36:42
  she sent her six months. What?
• 1:36:43
  She's right, you know, and again, So I just think we've
• 1:36:46
  lost sacred sanctified conversations.
• 1:36:51
  And then we get really confused messaging because we send things
• 1:36:55
  that are beautiful in one setting out into another
• 1:36:58
  setting. And where it's not and like
• 1:37:00
  even, you know, some of the quote prophetic stuff like it,
• 1:37:03
  it's it should be personal. It should not be, it should not
• 1:37:07
  be should not be broadcast. I'm actually hosting something
• 1:37:11
  in in Franklin area where it's not recorded.
• 1:37:16
  And so women can talk about hard things in a private setting and
• 1:37:23
  they don't have to worry that I'm turning it into content, you
• 1:37:26
  know, they can talk. Refresh it is so it is so true.
• 1:37:29
  Everything is everything's being made into content and but and
• 1:37:33
  there's so much performance that can come with that.
• 1:37:36
  But I think what you were saying earlier about the sacredness,
• 1:37:40
  and not just the sacredness of your relationships, but also
• 1:37:43
  your home and that space, there might be moments you would
• 1:37:46
  share, you know, and I'm not saying any moment you share.
• 1:37:48
  Is no, no, absolutely can't. Be sacred, but to be careful
• 1:37:51
  with that. It's a good reminder to to US
• 1:37:54
  women, especially us, US women listening.
• 1:37:56
  I feel like women are prone to this more than men today.
• 1:38:00
  Yeah, and people are mean, you know, like people are people are
• 1:38:03
  mean. Like you don't, you don't want
• 1:38:05
  to give just everybody voice into your life.
• 1:38:07
  And so, so I think sometimes, you know, like, you know, you
• 1:38:11
  have to decide, am I putting this out because I want
• 1:38:16
  affirmation from other people? Or am I doing this because I
• 1:38:21
  really want to help people? I really want people to, to
• 1:38:24
  learn from my mistakes or find out the faithfulness of God or
• 1:38:28
  find courage or, you know, or find their voice, whatever it
• 1:38:31
  is. But the motive is, is very
• 1:38:33
  important behind something. And, and again, you can put
• 1:38:36
  something out with the purest of motives and people can still
• 1:38:39
  attack you. So it's not, it's not that.
• 1:38:41
  I'm just saying I think that we're opening up way too much of
• 1:38:43
  our lives to strangers and we are not intimate with the people
• 1:38:48
  that we live with. And we have to use our reason to
• 1:38:51
  to think, is this actually going to help?
• 1:38:52
  Is this truly going to help people right as a including our
• 1:38:55
  motive? Like, I didn't talk about the
• 1:38:58
  anger thing. I didn't talk about almost
• 1:39:00
  hurting my son. I didn't talk about that until I
• 1:39:02
  was like 2 1/2 years on the other side of it.
• 1:39:04
  I didn't say, oh, last week I worked that out into my life.
• 1:39:08
  I worked it out. It became it.
• 1:39:11
  I had a healthy response. And you know, I had like had my
• 1:39:16
  second son, I think I was actually pregnant with my third
• 1:39:19
  son when I probably first started.
• 1:39:20
  Like I, I feel like we don't allow things to have a growth
• 1:39:25
  cycle in our life. We just contented or just put it
• 1:39:28
  out and we, we don't allow character to be developed in, in
• 1:39:33
  the way that it, it needs to be developed.
• 1:39:35
  So. Before we I know we've got to go
• 1:39:39
  soon and you your book on anger and your all everything that
• 1:39:44
  you've been sharing about overcoming anger as a mother or
• 1:39:47
  it could be as a father too, but we're talking about really from
• 1:39:49
  a women's perspective. Can you just speak briefly to
• 1:39:53
  how how you see righteous anger today become wrath and
• 1:39:57
  recommendations you might have for how we can keep our anger
• 1:40:01
  righteous? Yeah.
• 1:40:02
  Well, I think when when we are seeing the kind of craziness
• 1:40:05
  that's going on, the violence, the hatred, even almost the I
• 1:40:10
  mean, like we go to social media and we see people that obviously
• 1:40:14
  feel strongly about things, but they're mishandling it.
• 1:40:18
  And so that kind of thing is not going to move anything forward.
• 1:40:23
  If anything, it's going to justify the suppression of the
• 1:40:26
  very thing that they think they're being an advocate for.
• 1:40:28
  So you know, there it's going to be a shutdown.
• 1:40:31
  And so I don't think attacking people, physically slandering
• 1:40:38
  people, those things are never going to be something that God
• 1:40:42
  blesses. So if we are like upset about
• 1:40:45
  something, you know, I feel like you, you just come back from a
• 1:40:49
  March for life. You make your presence known,
• 1:40:52
  but you don't make your presence a threat.
• 1:40:54
  You are like, we are here because we care.
• 1:40:57
  We are here because we are fighting for life.
• 1:41:00
  But you would never attack the people that are around you that
• 1:41:03
  disagree with you. So you want to be persuasive,
• 1:41:08
  not offensive. And again, it's of course our
• 1:41:11
  opinion is going to be offensive to some people that I'm saying
• 1:41:13
  you're not going to attack. So when we're talking about
• 1:41:16
  righteous anger, righteous anger means is there not a cause?
• 1:41:22
  And then the understanding of who the real enemy is and we go
• 1:41:26
  to God for a battle strategy. We don't, we don't wrestle with
• 1:41:30
  flesh and blood, but we are wrestling and we're wrestling
• 1:41:32
  with principalities and powers and rulers.
• 1:41:34
  So if we can actually name the person, the person isn't usually
• 1:41:38
  the problem. If we, if we can name them,
• 1:41:42
  that's, that may be what we think is the problem, but
• 1:41:44
  there's always something more darker behind it.
• 1:41:47
  So we have prayer and we have the word of God and we have
• 1:41:52
  community. And one of the things that I had
• 1:41:54
  a a gentleman tell me, he said one thing that we have lost the
• 1:41:59
  art of is constant courageous conversations.
• 1:42:03
  Like having a conversation with somebody that you disagree with
• 1:42:07
  instead of arguing with them on social media can change
• 1:42:11
  everything. So constant courageous
• 1:42:16
  conversations or not pandering or not virtuous signaling.
• 1:42:19
  We have clarity, but we're also listening.
• 1:42:23
  They know that they're heard. So we're not just arguing, but
• 1:42:28
  but we are having a conversation more.
• 1:42:30
  We're consistent, like, hey, this is how I see this.
• 1:42:34
  This is what the word of God says.
• 1:42:36
  This is what you know is the truth scientifically whatever,
• 1:42:39
  like in your case. But yeah, I, I do think we need
• 1:42:41
  to have, we need to have a voice.
• 1:42:44
  But I, I feel like we silenced our voice because we didn't know
• 1:42:48
  how to be constructive with it. And in the meantime, all these
• 1:42:51
  angry people have appear more courageous on, on what is wrong.
• 1:42:57
  Then we've had a voice on what is right.
• 1:43:00
  And because anytime they intimidate, Oh no, don't miss
• 1:43:03
  politics and religion. Don't do this.
• 1:43:06
  Don't do that. Well, you and I both know that
• 1:43:08
  they've gotten spiritual in politics.
• 1:43:10
  So we can't we can't be quiet anymore like it.
• 1:43:13
  And but we can't also be destructive.
• 1:43:16
  So I mean, prayer is really at the root of it.
• 1:43:18
  And I hate, I hate that people think that prayer is the last
• 1:43:21
  resort and needs to be the first, you know?
• 1:43:23
  And again, am I wrestling with something spiritual?
• 1:43:26
  Then I can't make sense out of it because so much of what's
• 1:43:28
  going on makes absolutely no sense.
• 1:43:33
  And, and women are enraged right now over things that they have
• 1:43:37
  no control over. And so they're in a constant
• 1:43:40
  state of agitation because there is nothing more frustrating than
• 1:43:44
  feeling responsible for something you have no authority
• 1:43:47
  over. And I think that's a big deal
• 1:43:49
  right now. Give it to God and pray that's
• 1:43:52
  that is when you don't have the if you feel you don't have the
• 1:43:54
  power, you have more power than you know when you.
• 1:43:56
  Pray now what? What controls, controllables,
• 1:43:58
  What is in your power, and what is in your power?
• 1:44:00
  Let go of it. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:44:03
  Mama Lisa, so much wisdom. How can people find your books
• 1:44:06
  and your book on. I think it's on Amazon.
• 1:44:09
  It's called be angry but don't blow it.
• 1:44:10
  And it's all about constructive anger and you know how to how to
• 1:44:15
  actually understand that anger is not wrong, but unhealthy
• 1:44:19
  ungodly wrath and rage. That is the problem.
• 1:44:23
  So that is out there and and then the fight for FEMA.
• 1:44:25
  I have an entire chapter on spiritual warfare and I think
• 1:44:28
  that we need to to and do our due diligence and pray We don't
• 1:44:32
  obsess with about it. You know, I love that CS Lewis
• 1:44:35
  said there's there is 2 unhealthy balances where we like
• 1:44:40
  airs, where we fall when it comes to spiritual warfare.
• 1:44:43
  We either obsess or we say there's nothing and we need to
• 1:44:47
  have a healthy approach. Not an obsessive about demonic,
• 1:44:51
  but not I'm just going to ignore that.
• 1:44:53
  It's not going to go away. It's real.
• 1:44:56
  And so we need to address it with the Word of God and with
• 1:44:58
  prayer and obedience. Amen.
• 1:45:01
  Thank you so much, Lisa. So fun to always be with you.
• 1:45:04
  Thank you. Love you.
• 1:45:05
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