Latest / Magic Thread Media / The Grief of What Isn’t Real: Proof of Life in the Age of AI (Part 2) with Bill Kirst

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The Grief of What Isn’t Real: Proof of Life in the Age of AI (Part 2) with Bill Kirst · Magic Thread Media

0:00
Amy Lynn Durham: Hey, everyone. Amy here. Welcome back to Create
0:04
Magic at Work. This is part two of my conversation with Bill
0:10
curse, and in this half, we go straight into the grief of deep
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fakes and how they can collapse our trust, and what happens when
0:21
AI starts mediating our human conversations. And what do we
0:27
risk losing with all of this in art, creativity, and what is the
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cost of trading imperfections, human imperfections, for the
0:38
perfection of something a machine creates? So let's, let's
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get back into this conversation.
0:47
Hey, it's Amy. Welcome to Create Magic at Work, where we cast
0:50
visions for a future of work, where business decisions ripple
0:54
outward to our teams, our communities, the planet and
0:58
humanity as a whole. If you're ready to edge, walk instead of
1:01
sleep. Walk through your leadership. You're in the right
1:05
place. So let's start making Magic at work.
1:07
I had the most interesting experience I have to share with
1:12
you that I don't know if others have, I'm sure they have. I for
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me, it was interesting. I was in chat GPT, and I needed to talk
1:22
to one of my credit card companies. I was negotiating a
1:26
lower interest rate. I was just doing, like, some finance stuff
1:31
in the beginning of the year, like trying to go through
1:35
everything, and, you know, get organized. And I used chat GPT
1:40
to help me negotiate. I said, Hey, this is what I want. I'm
1:44
going to call this number give me the script what I need to say
1:49
to make this happen. And the the experience was so interesting to
1:54
me, because the other person was reading a script to me, yep, and
1:59
then I was reading a script to them, and then they were reading
2:04
a script to me, and then I would type real fast, and then I would
2:09
read the script back to them, because I was trying to use the
2:14
exact words for their system to get me what I needed. And they
2:19
were, you know, just going off what their system was. And I got
2:23
off the phone, I got what I needed, and I was like, we
2:28
literally were just two robots talking to each other with
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human. I don't know what the word is, human in betweens.
2:36
You'll probably have a better word for that than me. And I'm
2:41
like, What the hell is happening right now? Like, this is insane.
2:46
So anyways, AI mediating emails. Ai mediating relationship
2:50
conversations. Ai like, what is happening? Because at work, at
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work, I'm sure everyone is experiencing this. People are
3:00
popping in messages and slack. Copy Paste from Ai, copy paste
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from chat. GBT, happy to hop on a call. What helped me
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understand this? And it's like, what? What I'm like, I can't
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like. It's starting to really, I'm really feeling the
3:17
disconnection, and I'm like, just f, just f, ing, type what
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you want to say, and let's hash it out if it's disrespectful or
3:27
whatever, right? So then, on that other note, we're losing
3:31
conflict resolution skills because we're just copy pasting
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shit back and forth to each other, and I can't with it, so I
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know I just unloaded on you. You're like, I told you, it's
3:45
gonna be aI therapy. Well, help us. What do you have to say on that?
3:53
Bill Kirst: You know, it's interesting. It was probably two
3:55
years ago. I was interviewed for a podcast, and it the very end
4:01
of it, they asked me very similar, like, what do you see
4:04
in the future? It was a little little more sort of framed
4:08
positively, but and I answered at the time, again, this is two
4:15
years ago. We will be in a future where my agent is talking
4:21
to your agent and working through all of the work. And at
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some point I will pop in and I will check what the agent is
4:31
doing, and I will make some, you know, some recommendations, but
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then the agent will go back and talk to your agent and and all
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this work will be done between non human entities, and only
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when the human decides to insert themselves and check for
4:49
verification or reliability or consistency will we have
4:53
something to do. And I said it from the standpoint of imagine
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how much more we could do. Imagine where we could spend our
5:01
time if we didn't have to do some of that mundane stuff. But
5:05
I had no idea that it would be this soon where what you just
5:11
described is taking place automatically. So your story is
5:16
very relevant. People do this with their health care. They do
5:19
this with their credit card companies. They do this with
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their education. And the part that scares me is you were
5:28
vacating your body. You were literally going vacuous in that
5:33
moment. You said it yourself. I had a script. She had a script.
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I said my script. She said her script. You were intermediaries,
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but barely, like barely you were typing. You had movement, but
5:47
the part that was scary was there was no regard for the
5:52
person on the other line that was human, because you were
5:56
placing your energy into a non human entity to give you
6:00
answers, you ultimately arrived at the decision you wanted Yes,
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but how did you feel after that interchange, that exchange? How
6:09
did you feel when you got off the call? I'm curious like, what
6:13
was your body sensation? Was it I just won? I feel like
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vindication, or and was it I feel I got what I wanted, but I
6:23
feel like, Was I there? I feel icky. Like, what? How did it
6:27
feel to you?
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Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, I felt good because I got, I reached
6:33
the goal that I needed to reach, and I also felt shame that I
6:39
didn't connect with like part of me thinks back, I think back to
6:45
that moment all the time, just to unpack it, because I am who I
6:49
am, and I'm like, that was an actual human on the phone with
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me and and it was, there was no humanity in that interaction at
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all, and are we okay with that? It felt very It felt very
7:14
dismissive of our humanity, and it felt very like we were
7:20
discardable. Yeah.
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Bill Kirst: And the part which is even more terrifying now is
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people probably know this story that we're reading about mult
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book and claw bot, which, if you haven't read about it, I
7:37
encourage you to do so, because it's sort of taking over the
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airwaves. But in essence, this is what's happening. There was a
7:44
there's a gentleman who spun up, essentially a Mac Mini, right? A
7:47
small, a small device. He used some of this agentic AI to
7:54
create a social network only for agents, so the only entities
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that could join the social network were non human entities.
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And at first it was a little bit like a parlor trick. It is now
8:09
grown where there are millions of agents in this social network
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talking with each other. Again, no humans involved. They're
8:18
talking with each other. They're creating their own languages.
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They're creating their own unions. They're creating their
8:23
own religions. They're creating subcultures. Whoa. There's all
8:28
sorts of divisiveness in there. And here's where it gets really
8:31
freaky. They're creating their own synthetic drugs, and then
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they are selling them to people, not real people, but agents in
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their social network. So think about how quickly, in the course
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of a week, a social network that was set up for agents as a
8:49
parlor trick to showcase something has essentially turned
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into the worst variations of our shadows as as humans, division,
9:04
subdivision, scarcity, even the concept of of narcotics, like in
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this, you know, and and having crazy dealers, it's, it's
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absolutely mind blowing. And yet, I think it's teaching us
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and telling us something about what we're what we're discussing
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here, which is this is what happens when you give over your
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humanity, and you give over your regard, and you separate out of
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all of the things that make us worthy of connecting, worthy of
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having discussion. I think your point around debate and
9:44
arguments and difference of opinion, all of that is, I don't
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even I would normally say atrophying. I think it's more
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than that. It's, it's not just atrophying. It's, it's sloughing
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away like it's, we're losing it. We can't have. Have debates with
10:01
people. We can't have inquiry with people, because the minute
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I ask a question, somebody on the other side of a screen
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outside of my view is typing in my question to a large language
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model, and they're not giving me their answer. They're giving me
10:17
an answer. And again, we're right back to where you talked
10:22
about with the bird that wasn't real. If that answer that comes
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back to me is assumed to have come from your heart space and
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from your mind, then I've now got an emotional connection to
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you in that Well, no wonder this is causing problems with
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people's relationships and friendships and therapists,
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because you're you're having the serotonin reaction that we have
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in our neurobiological and down the road, you're expecting the
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person to behave that way. Meanwhile, they've separated
10:56
themselves from all of that interaction. So when push comes
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to shove and we have to be ourselves, after relying on this
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for so long, the question remains, who am I? And I'm
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vacant. I'm vacant out of my body, I've turned over my brain.
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There's aspects of my soul I don't remember. And when you put
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that in a cauldron of society and all of the things that we
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can see in the headlines that is a recipe for disaster, and
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that's why I'm encouraging people to slow down right think
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about these. Just the examples you've given are so relatable.
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Everybody can relate to that. But think about it. The next
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time you go to go to that keyboard or go to that phone or
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go to just take a beat, take a breath and ask yourself, are
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there portions of myself that I'm giving over and at speed and
11:55
at scale, I won't remember if I'm not careful, yeah. Hmm.
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Amy Lynn Durham: Something came up for me when you were sharing
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the bot world, that's what I'll call it, that was created. I
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hear from some that they are conscious of how they're
12:22
speaking to AI to whatever AI tool they're using, because
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they're afraid that when robots take over the world, they'll
12:30
come after the people that were rude. I'm asking you the
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randomest crazy questions today in the chat, and I have to tell
12:40
you, I've had some fights with chat, GPT, like, cut like,
12:43
because, like, cuss words, whatever. And when you brought
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up that bot world, I thought of that. And then, you know that
12:49
80s cult book, silver medal lover,
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Bill Kirst: it's no,
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Amy Lynn Durham: oh my gosh, Bill, you have to read it. It.
12:58
Do I have it like? I always have it around anyways. Oh, here it
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is.
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Bill Kirst: Yeah, silver medal lover.
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Amy Lynn Durham: Okay, it's about that. What we're talking
13:08
about. It's this really an athlete, yeah, you got to check
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it out. Anyways. We could talk more about this, but yeah, but
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yeah, what are your thoughts on, on that, on people that are like
13:22
mindful of what they're the way they're speaking to these
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machines.
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Bill Kirst: You know, there's, there's a spectrum of belief
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that people have, which is, it ranges from, it's all about
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conservation of energy, meaning these AI, large language models
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take a lot of power and water and cooling and so yes, thank
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you for there are people on one side of the spectrum. Yeah,
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there's people on one side of the spectrum that say it's
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better for me to be Curt short, you know, brief, because that
14:01
means I'm demanding less resources in its response. So
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some people believe that if you put a pleasantry in there, you
14:10
put a salutation, it's almost a waste of resources to these
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things that don't have feelings, don't have emotions, they want
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you to get straight to the point. That's one side of the
14:19
spectrum. On on the other side of the spectrum, there are
14:22
people that believe again, these technologies are mirrors of who
14:27
we are. So if this thing, which is used by 300 million people
14:33
every week, as a tool, as a an alongside as a curator, as
14:40
someone to check about these things if we rely on it as much
14:43
as we do, and we cut out our manners, and we cut out our
14:47
salutations and we cut out our greetings, then at some point
14:54
we're going to start cutting those out in our real life
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existence. And that's Troy. Some because people spend more time
15:02
with these technologies than they do, in some cases, with
15:05
their fellow humans. So habits form, patterns form, and before
15:10
you know it, they start to infiltrate your life. So those
15:13
are, those are two different ends of the spectrum. I don't
15:17
necessarily worry that when the robots are sort of turned on,
15:20
they're going to have report cards of people and how they
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talk to them. I don't believe that. I do, however, believe
15:28
that the way we interact with these technologies is telling us
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both the the height and depth of our humanity. And I'm gonna, I'm
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gonna cite an example here in a in a show that I absolutely
15:46
love, the remake of Battlestar Galactica. And those that know
15:50
it know the story of the Cylons. And essentially, Cylons were
15:53
robots that were very indistinguishable from the
15:57
humans. And it in the story, it's very, very much becomes an
16:02
us versus them, and obviously sort of war ensues between them.
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But what's interesting is in the story, the humans after so much
16:15
violence and disregard and casting of others, and it was in
16:20
those moments that they were reminded how far they slipped in
16:24
their own humanity towards each other, right? Everybody was
16:27
directing it, you know, at the Cylons and saying, We cannot
16:31
treat them the same for these reasons, because they're robots.
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Nobody was disagreeing with that. However, what they were
16:37
disagreeing with was because they'd gotten to a place where
16:40
they were so disconnected from their own humanity, they became
16:45
judge and jury. Then they started treating their fellow
16:49
humans with that, those twinges of disregard and that was
16:53
problematic. That was where they actually their society, started
16:57
to come undone. So my fear is that habits we use every day,
17:03
depending on how we talk to these devices, it's going to
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creep into our day to day interchange with fellow humans.
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I don't want to lose manners, I don't want to lose greetings, I
17:14
don't want to lose debate. I don't want somebody telling me
17:19
every idea I have is the best idea. Like, I'm not a fan of the
17:22
hyperbole. I'm not a fan of the superlatives. I'm not a fan of
17:26
the sycophant right? Part of this technology. I like to stand
17:30
in the tension, and these tools are sort of wired to make me
17:36
addicted to the pleasantries. I don't want that. I also don't
17:41
want rude and crude. I'm definitely not. I've never used
17:45
grok. I will never use Elon's technologies, the things that
17:51
are happening on the platforms, the way that they are using them
17:56
to do the nutifying right to take people's pictures and
17:59
remove clothes and, the eroticism that has been
18:03
introduced in some of these things, I am not okay with that.
18:07
In fact, I thought that was a line that they crossed that they
18:12
will never be able to get back. And they did it for money. Let's
18:16
be clear. They did it because, again, when push comes to shove,
18:21
if you really push people to the bottom of their brainstem to the
18:26
lizard part of our brain, you know how they'll perform? You
18:29
know how they will show up? You know what addiction looks like?
18:32
You know what power structure is they're playing to that, to
18:36
that, to that aspect on us. And I really wish we would wake up
18:41
and and say, Not today, not on my time, not on my watch, not on
18:45
my dime. And people have choices. You know, it's a small
18:49
choice, but I've drawn that line. I will never interact with
18:53
any technology that has been put together by Elon Musk, because I
18:59
look at who he is, I look at who he's become, I look at the
19:01
choices he's making, and I look at what happens to us as a
19:04
result of using those things. That's just my individual
19:07
choice. That's my rebellion, if you will, to hold on to what I
19:13
have. It's interesting. I'll just share this one last thought
19:15
with you, and I'll pause. My dad read my book, and my dad's 83
19:22
and he said, I have questions, Bill for you about the book. And
19:25
I said, Sure, let's, let's go, you know? And I was shocked. His
19:29
first question out of like 200 something, because we talked for
19:34
like two and a half hours. It was beautiful. His first
19:36
question was, you know, Bill, I noted that you not once
19:41
mentioned Elon Musk in your book. I kind of feel that was
19:45
intentional, but I'm not sure, Was it intentional? And I just
19:49
smiled, and I said, Yes, it was, and he understood exactly what I
19:55
meant, right? Which is I believe that those weak. Of space and
20:01
pages and voice and breath to we're kind of giving our power
20:05
to them in a way regard, as we've discussed, and it was just
20:10
very clear in my body, like, do not give time, space, Grace,
20:14
page, print, voice to this person while his story is unique
20:20
and fascinating. I'm I just did not need to give any more to it,
20:26
because I don't feel the contributions are helping us go
20:29
in the right direction.
20:30
Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, that's so tight, like timely in our
20:35
conversation, because I was literally going to ask you, what
20:39
do you fear we've already lost, or Or what do you fear we will
20:47
lose and realize it's too late. And you, you were speaking to a
20:53
lot of that. But if you could sum up, you know, one or two
20:58
things where we are today. What do you feel like moving forward
21:06
today? Will realize, oh, shoot, it's too late. We've lost it.
21:12
Bill Kirst: Yeah, I feel the arguments that we were having,
21:19
the things I was losing sleep about years ago. Were things
21:24
around the arts, were things around creativity. Were things
21:28
around the movies. The movie strikes, right? The studio
21:31
strikes, the actor strikes the we talked about the Olympics, we
21:36
talked about journalism. I feel like we've we've lost on these I
21:44
feel like the the deal that Disney struck with open AI, a
21:48
billion dollar deal, I feel like we lost, and we lost the magic
21:53
and the distinct and divine, unique creativity that comes out
21:59
of a Disney animator, I feel like we've lost the the beauty
22:07
and imperfection and ballad that comes out of a songwriter when
22:12
they're just tinkering around with keys and instruments and
22:17
ideas and words, because now we have suno, and People go into
22:19
suno and they put in their poetry or their words, and they
22:24
say, I'd like it to sound like this artist and this beat with
22:28
these percussions and and you can get 86 variations thereof. I
22:36
know people who are very excited about that. Again, if you're not
22:39
an artist, and you've always dreamed of that. It is an
22:43
entryway, for sure, it unveils so much that you can bring your
22:48
words to life, and you can do a first draft and give it to a
22:51
songwriter. But we've lost the magic. We've lost the mystery,
22:59
like I think about producers like Linda Perry, you know, lead
23:04
singer of four non blondes back in the day, but one of the
23:07
greatest producers of Christina Aguilera and pink and and you
23:12
think about the the container that she created that allowed
23:17
these artists to fold into themselves in a vulnerable way,
23:22
to then expand and give us some of the greatest music and art
23:27
and pieces that literally helped people like us heal at a point
23:31
in our life. And I think we've we're losing that. We're losing
23:36
the ability to defend and protect those containers of
23:41
imperfection. If everybody goes into suno and puts their poem in
23:45
and gets incredible sounding music, but it is not a human
23:49
singing it. It is not a human performing the music. It is not
23:52
a person beating on those drums for percussion, and those things
23:57
are put on Spotify, and those things are put on YouTube and
24:00
like you with the bird and your friend, there was a point where
24:04
there was an artist that I thought I was following. I loved
24:07
the timbre of his voice, I loved the lyrics. I was like, wow,
24:11
this is a poet I have not heard from since listening to
24:14
Secondhand Serenade, right? A group, a gentleman I used to
24:16
listen to years ago, and I learned three weeks later,
24:21
completely AI generated. This person doesn't exist. It's a
24:24
group of people that collaborate and tug on the heartstrings of
24:28
people like me, and they put it in Spotify. I grieved. I was
24:32
angry. I was mad. I felt duped. Nowhere in there did it say, AI,
24:38
I think it should have. And then somebody pulled me aside and
24:41
said, Bill, you're really upset, but those songs you really
24:45
enjoyed, did they help you in a way? And I said at the time,
24:48
yeah, but now I feel like it was a contract that's been broken,
24:54
and I can't get that trust back. So for me, I'm terrified. What's
25:00
going to happen the arts, the I feel like the movie houses. I
25:03
feel like the studios. This whole debate over Netflix versus
25:07
paramount for Warner Brothers, there's a reason they want to
25:11
buy Warner Brothers. It's 100 years of movies, 100 years of
25:16
movies that were made by humans before all this existed. What?
25:20
Are we hungry for? Amy, we're hungry for nostalgia. We're
25:23
yearning for what is real. I listen to, you know, what do I
25:28
do now when I drive into my commute, I pulled out my old
25:31
case logic, which had hundreds of CDs from when I was in high
25:35
school, and I'm choosing to put the CD in the car, yep, and
25:39
listen to the CDs on the way to work, because it's a container
25:44
of nostalgia in a world that is showing me all the stuff that's
25:47
not real. I'm like, You know what was real? Me listening to
25:51
Lisa Loeb on the CD in high school and feeling the angst of
25:56
adolescence that was real. And if I get to do that for 20
26:00
minutes in a car on the way to work and 20 minutes on the way
26:02
minutes on the way home. I'm a better person for it. So
26:06
interestingly enough, that's what I'm grabbing on to books,
26:10
CDs, vinyl, right? We talk about the imperfections, the clicks
26:14
and the pops on a vinyl is, oh my god. It's like chef's kiss.
26:19
And if you listen to things on Bluetooth and Spotify and Apple
26:23
Music, it all sounds air gapped now, like, Where, where is,
26:27
like, where's the imperfections to where we started. And I feel
26:33
we're losing this. And so every act that I'm choosing to do is,
26:38
is, is pulling one more thread. And at the end of it, I hope I
26:42
can make, as we talked about it, the analogy, I hope I can make a
26:45
quilt or patchwork of some sort, that no matter what's happening
26:49
in the world around me, I can wrap myself in that quilt and
26:52
know that I'm okay, like, these are my bones, these are my
26:55
limbs. This is my heartbeat. These are my tears. And I don't,
26:59
I don't I don't lose that.
27:01
Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, it's so I can I can see the the I can see
27:11
the the humanity ripped out of everything you're talking about
27:16
when, even when we're trying to find something to watch on, like
27:21
the art of storytelling is just crap. Like, I don't know what's
27:28
going on, but and there's nothing original coming. They're
27:32
trying to remake the old stuff you were talking about that we
27:34
loved and that we held on to, and then they're just pumping
27:38
out remakes of that with nothing original. And then it's, like,
27:43
washed over with without any of the the gaps or the there's,
27:48
it's just, it's off, is just what I'll say.
27:52
Bill Kirst: So with everything we've
27:55
Amy Lynn Durham: talked about, I could literally talk to you for
27:58
eight hours. We probably need to do like, a 20 million series
28:01
because I didn't even get to half of the stuff I wanted to
28:04
get to. But it's fine, because with everything that we've
28:09
talked about so far since last time I asked you, what can you
28:15
sense, but not yet see, I want to ask you in closing, what does
28:20
it look like if you extend your vision even further into the
28:25
future? What do you see if you do that like, like, like, have
28:34
your vision or what of what you can sense when I see but then
28:37
even extend it further into the future? What can you share with
28:41
us on that?
28:44
Bill Kirst: Yeah, I think when we talked last time we we sort
28:48
of orbited around essentially what I was almost calling like a
28:51
reverse Renaissance, and we anchored on the that which is
28:55
crafted by humans. I think what's going to be interesting
28:59
is, if I take it further, I think there's going to be an
29:04
extension there of so it's not just that which is crafted by
29:08
humans, but I think it's going to be about the ingredients that
29:13
actually people pull into crafting anything. And so to
29:17
your point around what is the sources of inspiration, right?
29:21
I'm, I'm gonna extend it further, but in some sense, I'm
29:24
actually go deeper by doing so and asking, what are the sources
29:28
of inspiration that people go to in order to excuse me, the voice
29:34
goes, because we're talking about things that are emotional.
29:36
We want energetic, but, yeah, we're not editing it. People are
29:41
going to hear it. Proof of Life, folks, proof of life. I think
29:48
people are going to go deeper to the wells of inspiration in
29:52
order to craft something that lasts longer, right? And so if
29:57
we think about the technologies that we're. Using every one of
30:01
them have a shelf life. I mean, at some point the money is going
30:05
to run out, and at some point a large language model is just not
30:10
going to be there to respond to you. And then what are you left
30:13
with? What are you left with to turn to? What well of
30:17
inspiration Are you going to turn to to to then form your
30:21
words, or form your your woodwork, or your clay, whatever
30:26
it is you're going to want to touch something, make something
30:29
that has a lasting legacy. And in a way, I feel like we're
30:34
almost going to have, you know, think about it when people
30:38
discovered an artifact from the Paleolithic era, right? And they
30:41
said, Oh, wow, this was made for this reason at this time. And
30:46
what were they going through at the time, right? And we have the
30:49
luxury of history and knowing and artifact and record keeping.
30:53
I don't know what that will look like in the future, because if
30:56
we're putting all of this artifacting and record keeping
31:00
and discussion into these devices, into these large
31:03
language models, and at some point the power turns off. Well,
31:08
you don't have access to it. What do you have to show for all
31:11
of this? That's why I want I want illustrators. I want
31:17
musicians. I want people that, and I'm seeing this
31:22
interestingly. I'm seeing this. I'm seeing friends of mine
31:25
relearn piano by ear, and they're filming themselves, and
31:30
they're playing and they're making mistakes, and they love
31:33
it, because people are reaching out to them and saying, You've
31:36
inspired me to tap into a deeper Well, I'd forgotten, to your
31:40
point, around nostalgia, I had forgotten. This meant something
31:44
to me when I was right. Somebody recently reached out to me and
31:48
said they've started to go back to watch old classic movies and
31:52
musicals and things where they knew when the light hits a
31:56
certain scene, you knew. You can imagine what it took to make
31:59
that happen, the costumes, right? I think about people who
32:03
design sets, and they're terrified, because you can just
32:10
AI, generate something in the background, but we know the
32:13
difference. And I think if you fast forward all of this, I
32:17
think our discernment, our filter for understanding what's
32:19
real and what's not, is only going to get better, and at some
32:23
point like that, people are going to stop, they're going to
32:25
stop coming and then, and then you're left with, now what? So I
32:31
don't, I don't want to end on a dystopian and so I want to, I
32:35
want to leave it based on the fact that it's I'm giving people
32:40
permission to go for a deeper Well, in all of this,
32:46
Amy Lynn Durham: yeah, so good, so good. And I think you're
32:52
leaving us with questions, which is good rather than, I mean, we
32:59
talked about a lot of answers too. But I think this
33:03
conversation is leaving us with questions of, how do I want to
33:08
be in my day? Am I going to pause and question what I'm
33:12
putting into this machine right now, how I'm behaving when I'm
33:18
interacting with another human, all of these things, and this
33:21
conversation was so deep, but my takeaway is more questions in a
33:26
good way, and not throwing my CD player away. Yeah, my DVD
33:38
player. No, this was so amazing. Bill, okay, I know. I really
33:42
want to pull the magical edge Walker cards into the end of our
33:46
conversation, because we're both, you know, edgewalker
33:49
facilitators, and we one of the characteristics of an edge
33:55
Walker is to look to the future with creative, positive
33:58
visualization. And so I want to leave everyone with some light
34:03
and some hope, and I think we did in this conversation. So let
34:08
me pull a card from the edge Walker deck for us and just kind
34:11
of give everybody listening and you and I an affirmation from
34:16
Judy, dr, Judy Neal that authored them to take with us
34:22
surround. Surrounding this. I just got the chills.
34:29
Oh, I'm all chilled up over here. Okay. Bill one, two or
34:35
three, three, we got connecting, which is an edge Walker skill,
34:44
connecting the ability to value others, to see their uniqueness
34:49
and to draw out the best in them. Oh, wow. I am curious and
34:55
interested in people who are seemingly different from me, and
34:58
I enjoy reaching out to them.
35:00
Bill Kirst: And, wow, if that's not spot on, right? We were
35:05
talking about, yeah,
35:07
Amy Lynn Durham: it's beautiful. I can't I mean, it's just so in
35:10
line with our conversation. I'm curious and interested in people
35:15
who are seemingly different from me, and I enjoy reaching out to
35:19
them, like, put the machine away, talk to someone, make a
35:23
mistake in your language, if you hurt someone's feelings on
35:28
accident, learn how to conflict resolve as a human being. Try
35:32
not asking chat GPT first, and see what the hell happens. Is
35:36
what I Yeah, that's a whole other episode that hopefully
35:40
maybe we can talk about again. But Bill, oh my gosh. Just thank
35:45
you so much for your time. I know how busy you are. I know
35:49
that all of the amazing things that you're doing, and I'm just
35:53
really, really grateful and appreciative that you donated
35:57
your time today to share your thoughts with all of the Create
36:02
Magic at Work community on all of this. So thank you so much
36:06
for being here.
36:09
Bill Kirst: You're very welcome. It's an honor, and I hope this
36:11
episode finds its way to those it needs to be heard by.
36:14
Appreciate it. Yeah.
36:15
Amy Lynn Durham: Thank you so for everyone listening, Bill's
36:18
Book link will be in the show notes as well as our prior
36:23
conversation. And if you don't follow him on sub stack, you are
36:27
so missing out because one of the most amazing writers I have
36:32
ever read, and he has these incredible dreams that he then
36:36
puts pen to paper for all of us to experience. So check him out
36:41
on sub stack as well and again, Bill, thank you for sending some
36:45
magic to everyone today. Thanks be well.
36:48
I want to thank each and every one of you for being here as we
36:53
explore what it really means to Create Magic at Work. If this
36:57
conversation resonated with you, or if someone came to mind while
37:01
you were listening, share the episode with them. Help others
37:05
who are looking for these types of conversations find us and
37:09
don't forget to follow, subscribe, rate and review so
37:13
you're notified when the next episode airs until next time.
37:17
Keep edge walking, keep challenging the way things have
37:20
always been done, and keep making magic at work. You.