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Leaders Are Disengaging Faster Than Their Teams · Magic Thread Media

• 0:00
  Tiffany Connauton: In order for us to be able to create well balanced workplaces, it has to be that yes and conversation. I need to be able to be authentically myself at work. I need to be able to work in the best environment that I can, to do really, really high quality work, and I also have to be held accountable for the results that I'm supposed to be delivering for that organization. Because if we're doing people and profits people and performance. That means that we have to measure performance as well. So it's about both and it's about both kind of at the same time. So you know, the conversations really need to shift. And this is where we, most people, don't like change, and I apologize. I love it, because we get to actually be the creators of what our new workplaces look like. So this next generation, these Gen Z's that are coming in aren't coming in saying, I don't want to do things. They're saying, I don't want to do things the way that you did them. It doesn't work for us anymore. We've had major shifts in values, within our within our society. You know, our identities are not tied to our jobs anymore, like there's lots that has changed for lots of different reasons. You know, we could go back into the covid era and all those things, but we are evolving as a human race and as a society especially, I would argue, fastest in North America, so that evolution is going to take us somewhere new.
• 1:23
  Amy Lynn Durham: hey, it's Amy, welcome to Crreate Magic at Work, where we cast visions for a future of work, where business decisions ripple outward to our teams, our communities, the planet and humanity as a whole. If you're ready to edge, walk instead of sleep, walk through your leadership, you're in the right place. So let's start making magic at work.
• 1:44
  Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Create Magic at Work today. Our special guest is Tiffany Connauton. She is the CEO of Beyond Diversity, Inc, and the creator of Uncharted and experience based program that helps organizations build the human skills required to perform, adapt and grow in today's business environment. She's also the CO creator of Renew Edge, a proprietary change management model designed to move insight into action in practical people centered ways that last. Tiffany is known for trailblazing leadership in the people space, challenging traditional approaches that no longer serve modern organizations. Her work consistently pushes others to rethink how work gets done, love that recognized for her work at the intersection of people and profits, Tiffany advocates for a business approach where human experience and strong business outcomes are not competing priorities. No surprise why Tiffany is on create magic at work today. That's literally all we talk about. I mean, the root message in almost every episode for over four years is, can we have an amazing human experience where we see the connection in each other and have strong business outcomes? So love that you talk about those being mutually reinforcing drivers of success through beyond diversity, Inc, she has partnered with organizations across mining, energy, finance, education, legal and public sectors, supporting leaders and teams through complex change and the development of critical skills. Today, we are going to talk about a lot of different things. One thing in particular is, like, is workplace culture even a thing, or is it just something that people just say now and use that word, because it's just talked about a lot, but I don't really know if, like, anything is actually impacted out there when people try to impact it. But on that note, Tiffany, welcome to create magic at work. And thank you for being here.
• 4:04
  Tiffany Connauton: Oh my goodness, thank you so much. And it's, it's great to be here. And I love the whole like, Is this actually a thing anymore? It's so fascinating how we tend to grab onto something. We go really, really hard at it, and then we just kind of like, let it go to the wayside and it feels like and dies. But I mean, workplace culture is definitely a thing. It has to be a thing. Because whenever you bring humans together, there's a culture, there's a there's an underlying environment, there's a current, you know, whatever that looks like. It can be good, it can be bad, and it's up to us to create it. So when we talk about workplace culture, I think that for for a long time, people really were attuning to how the workplace was designed for people, as opposed to, how do we design it for ourselves? So we have some empowerment in that read, I. You and I have talked a little bit about around like, how disengaged our workforce is already. So with a disengaged workforce, how do you actually sub, you know, how do you even support, sustain, build any kind of workplace culture? So, of course, they feel flat, right?
• 5:14
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah. What do you think companies get wrong about the human experience, because there's definitely been a rise of chatter for the past couple of years about well, being at work, humanity and the workplace. Bring your whole self to work. I even see people's titles on on LinkedIn or talking about the work they do that's all about, like human work, all of these different ways that people are trying to name this. But then yet, we see and and I know you have some statistics to share with us today, but we also see reports coming out that people aren't happy. They're they're more disengaged than ever. There's quiet quitting going on all of the time. So where do you think we're getting it wrong and also making it a win win, with business performance right now?
• 6:17
  Tiffany Connauton: Yeah, and I think it's, it's really built into the systems, right? So we have workplace systems, HR systems, work processes that were all built for a time that doesn't exist right now. So nothing that we have currently works for the people that are engaging in work right now. So we don't have policies, you know, procedures, ways of working that actually work for the people. So as much as we want to engage with work differently, we need those systems to back it up. So there's a little bit of a cart before the horse, chicken and egg dance going on, and we need both to happen at the same time, because we need the want to be different. And then we also need to follow that up with, you know, designing how it's going to be different, and that's going to take a lot of time. I mean, some of these, especially if we're talking about HR practices, it's going to take a really long time. But what's super interesting to me right now, and it's showing the level of burnout that we're that we're having with our leaders, is this idea of, you know, more for less. And you know, there's so much of that going on in the world right now is we need more for less. More for less. So now let's start talking about mental health on top of all of the other things that we need to do. Let's start talking about well being on top of all the other things that we need to do. We're not creating space and capacity, and that is showing up in the numbers. You mentioned it. Gallup did a state of the global workforce report just at the very end of 2025 there it was released, and in that report, they talk about 21% of employees worldwide are engaged at work only, only 21% that's the worldwide Number, specifically in the US, is still only 30% in the US, 18% are actively disengaged. So if you've only got 30% of your workforce, like a third of your workforce is engaged and 20% 18% is actively disengaged, how much are you missing? The other stat that I found was that was really
• 8:26
  interesting, was that the rate of decline in engagement was way higher for managers than it was for non managers. So our leaders are actually disengaging at a higher rate than the people that are working with us. And so we can't just point like historically workplace culture, point to the leaders. It's a leaders problem that is definitely not the case now, because our leaders are actually disengaging faster. So what that actually says to me is that it is 100% our workplace systems that are not working for us. It is our policies, our workplace policies, our HR policies, that are really, you know, starting to be antiquated to how we want to and desire to show up at work. Yeah.
• 9:14
  Amy Lynn Durham: What do you think is a sign that, you know, if someone's listening and they're thinking of the way their company or their organization is structured. What do you think is a sign that that might arise, or that they can see that shows them that their policies are antiquated, or that something maybe needs an overhaul?
• 9:36
  Tiffany Connauton: Absolutely and I think what we're starting to see, especially with the new generation starting to enter the workforce, they're demanding a lot different. I mean, we want different. They're demanding different. So as they start entering into the workforce, we're seeing an increase in complaints, HR, complaints, grievances, depending on how large the company is and what data they measure. We can even see it in leaves. You know, do you. An increase in mental health leaves, or even, you know, any kind of medical leave, because in certain areas you can't get, you know, the reason for the leave, but are your leaves going up? What's your attrition rate? Like, I mean, part of the problem is, is that we don't actually measure what we need to measure. It would be really good if we were able to measure things like, what is your satisfaction rate, you know, at work. And those aren't things that we actually measure. We measure engagement instead, and then we try and draw lines between engagement and, you know, workplace happiness, but, and there is a little bit to it, but I can also be engaged at work because I have a strong work ethic and not actually be happy at work. So there are some differences. One of the things that's, you know, been kind of investigated by some of the larger organizations is something called a net promoter score for employees. So that really boils down to, you know, how happy or how much do you belong at work? So I think that, again, you know, chicken before the egg, cart before the horse. We we really need to look at what we're measuring so that we can get the right data. But for for listeners, it's really around, like, really start paying attention to your HR statistics that you are able to get from the data that you collect. And if you look really critically at it, and not just, you know, oh, we always have attrition, or, you know, that type of thing, and you're able to look critically at it, you'll, you'll start to see some
• 11:25
  early trends in those pieces, for sure.
• 11:28
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, what so how do we how do we do that? If the data that you're seeing and the data that you're sharing is the leaders are the disengaged ones, how does that even work?
• 11:43
  Tiffany Connauton: Yeah, it's it's really interesting right now. It is a very complex space. So I mean, if we've got managers that are disengaging faster than their teams are disengaging, we need to figure out ways to literally, kind of call everyone back in. And when we think about employee engagement surveys, employee surveys of any kind that we do, typically in most organizations, at least every couple of years, we need to start looking at different questions and start getting curious about what's actually happening. There's lots of, you know, listening surveys that can be done. There's there's tons of things that we can do. I think that the the challenge is getting organizations to understand that they can be doing these things to better their business. And the tension is starting to get there with, you know, burnout rates starting to affect the bottom line. You know, we live in a capitalist society. That's the reality. We need business in order to be happy, and we need, you know, to be happy in order to make business successful. You and I share that belief. So I think that, you know, when we start to look at some of these things, we really have to look at both at the same time, as opposed to one and or the other. If your bottom line is strong, that doesn't mean that your people are happy. It could be a temporary thing, based on fear, based on, you know, all sorts of different things. So it's about getting critical when we're looking at the information and asking more questions.
• 13:13
  Amy Lynn Durham: For sure, what are your thoughts on the argument? I've heard that it's because of the new generation of work coming into the workforce, meaning, I'm hearing you say, well, maybe we should measure different things. Maybe we shouldn't measure employee engagement. Maybe we should measure satisfaction. Maybe it looks like that to help us look at the right things. I've also heard the argument that the Gen Z workforce coming in and younger, are calling in sick because they got critical feedback on their PowerPoint presentation, or they're taking a mental health day because for things that perhaps a millennial or a Gen X would not take a mental health day for. And so there's this disconnect. There's this generational disconnect. So I could totally see a leader saying, now we're going to measure satisfaction, and and then it feels like, almost like the customer surveys I used to do in retail, where it was like there was just those customers that were never going to give the high score, because Nothing's ever perfect, and there was always somebody complaining. And so I could sense a feeling of a loss of power with leaders constantly measuring satisfaction. I could see that bubbling up, you know, where, where we're shifting the system. And then it's like, oh no, now as we're just opening up the complaint, you know. The waves of complaints that come in. What's your take on all of that?
• 15:06
  Tiffany Connauton: Yeah, so yes, and right. And I think that you bring up a really good point 100% we're going to be opening up a little bit of a can of worms. However, again, if we go back to the systems that are in place we need in order for all of this to work together, not only do we need to measure differently, not only do we need to change the employee experience, we also have to change how we measure accountability and performance. So when we talk about like, are you satisfied at work? It's not only Hey, like, Does my desk fit right? Am I happy with my surroundings. Does my boss talk to me well or, you know, respectfully, and all of those things. It's also, am I doing value added work? You know, can I contribute to this organization in a good way? Are my results, you know, high quality and leaders? I mean, I'm going to put more on leaders, and they're not going to love it, and I'm really sorry, but the fact of the matter is, is that in order for us to be able to create well balanced workplaces, it has to be that yes and conversation, I need to be able to be authentically myself at work. I need to be able to work in the best environment that I can, to do really, really high quality work, and I also have to be held accountable for the results that I'm supposed to be delivering for that organ. For that organization. Because if we're doing people and profits people and performance, that means that we have to measure performance as well. So it's about both and it's about both kind of at the same time. So you know, the conversations really need to shift. And this is where we, most people, don't like change, and I apologize. I love it, because we get to actually be the creators of what our new workplaces look like. So this next generation, these Gen Z's that are coming in aren't coming in saying, I don't want to do things. They're saying I don't want to do things the way that you did them. It doesn't work for us anymore. We've had major shifts in
• 17:01
  values within our within our society. You know, our identities are not tied to our jobs anymore, like there's lots that has changed for lots of different reasons. You know, we could go back into the covid era and all those things, but we are evolving as a human race and as a society especially, I would argue, fastest in North America. So that evolution is going to take us somewhere new, which means that we have to design for something new, right? And that next generation will help us do that. We just have to be willing to work together. They need to bend. We need to bend. There has to be kind of that give and take, right?
• 17:37
  Amy Lynn Durham: Super interesting. Yeah, super interesting, all of those points you brought up. So anything that you can call out in traditional change programs or traditional training programs, speaking of bending that might be failing the modern workplace today,
• 18:00
  Tiffany Connauton: it's this idea that we need to be talked at, or that we all learn the same way. So, I mean, we assumed, and it's never been true, that we all learn exactly the same way. So you can present me with a PowerPoint for an hour on a lunch and learn, or a two hour workshop, or I'll one day, you know, conference where I'm being talked at the whole time, and I'm going to actually engage with that material, and I'm going to soak it in, and it's going to change my behavior. And that just really, honestly isn't the case. We've learned over time that people absorb information differently. We've talked about it for a long time. We have different learning styles so but we didn't take that one step further and say, What's that look like in behavior shifts. What does that look like in mindset changes, you know? So I think that the evolution of training, and all of those, you know, kind of historic things on how we elevated skills is now going to be experiential. People on their level, in their way, will need to actually experience the data that's coming in. So they'll need to feel it. They'll need to do it. They'll need to, you know, see it working for them, especially in this day and age. I call it the Tiktok era, where things are just really quick, right? Sitting for an hour, taking in a bunch of information just isn't it's not the way that we need to do it. And that's going to apply to everything within organizations as well your onboarding, your corporate training, all of those types of things now to become experiential.
• 19:29
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, when you walk into an organization that hires you to help them with change or to implement some sort of change, what's one of the first signs that you see that their culture might be costing them in some way?
• 19:52
  Tiffany Connauton: I'll see it before I actually get in defense. So we do what are like clarity, first conversations with clients before. Or they actually even bring me in. And in those conversations, we ask some critical questions, and it really shows up well in, how are you engaging with your people? What are your people telling you, you know, a lot of times they'll be like, I don't know. We know all. We've got lots of, you know, HR complaints, grievances, if it's a union environment, that type of thing. So there's a lot of early warning signs something around if leaders are like I told them, or we've told them they have to do this, you know, kind of that strong stance will will indicate some issues as well. It doesn't take much to pick it up. So that's why we do the clarity first conversations, because it gives us a really good sense of what we're walking into before we even get there.
• 20:46
  Amy Lynn Durham: Okay, so I have another question around this disengaged leader, because that really concerns me, that statistic that you shared, that if the leaders are checking out and disengaged and we're giving all of this advice to them on how to change the system that doesn't seem like that, that necessarily is going to play out if they're the ones disengaged. And if somebody listening, that's a senior level leader, that's just like, I'm so done. I'm tired. I've been trying to do the you know, like I'm just trying to go to work and get a paycheck and go home and take care of my family. Where do they start? Where do they where do they start? I can tell you, in my corporate days, the whole reason why I'm doing create magic at work is because I saw the powerful impact of seeing what connecting a human to a human can do. And I mean, I truly mean, like seeing the humanity in each other. And we talk a lot about spiritual intelligence on create magic at work, and showing up for from our higher selves at work, being a calming and healing presence, making wise and compassionate decisions, all of these things that we want our high level leaders to skill build and practice in the statistic that they're disengaged. How can, how can they re engage themselves if they're the ones leading this And absolutely, it's if they've checked out, it's a total
• 22:26
  Tiffany Connauton: it is such a critical question. And I mean, like, I think part of the answer is not going to be clear. It's going to be it depends. But I think that, you know, overall, there's a few things. First of all, you have to take care of you. There is absolutely, I mean, we hear it all the time when we fly, put your own mask on before you help somebody else. I mean, there is nothing that they are going to be able to do until they look after themselves. That's number one. And if looking after yourself means leave, if it looks if it looks like moving to a different organization, if it means connecting with somebody on your team, that might not be a formal leader, but maybe someone that you can see some really good leadership qualities, and that, you know, either through formal or informal mentorship, you can start to lean on a little bit to maybe take a little bit of the load off, so that you can spend some time in that self care and kind of getting back engaged. I think that for a large portion that disengagement comes from burnout, and burnout is and as honestly, I argue that it's an epidemic right now, especially in North America. It's just as do more for less, mentality that our leaders have had to struggle with for a very long time, and now, with all of this technology coming at us with AI, you would think that that would actually lessen the load. And again, I mean, we'll go back to stats, but like, the stats are actually showing that AI is amplifying the program the problem, because now people are like, Oh, you can just get that done in 30 seconds. So now I can do something else instead of taking that time to breathe. So if that AI program can I'll just use an example. We shouldn't probably use it for writing emails. But let's just say I wrote an email for you instead of actually sitting in that space and not doing anything or taking the opportunity for self care. Once we've got that efficiency built in through AI, we're just doing
• 24:21
  more. So now we've got aI sending so now your brain is like, Okay, now I've sent out four emails instead of one, and I have no space, so it's amplifying our problems. So I think, you know, there's a lot of work to do with human skills, and the reason that I focus on human skills instead of some of the more technical skills in change is because human skills are what are going to get us through this? That connection, that human to human connection, so Uncharted is the program that I developed to do that. So we talk about things like emotional intelligence. We were never taught that word. We were never taught that skill. However. However, it is such a game changer when you think about having to do hard things, right? This, you know, elevated emotional intelligence, moving on into like, decision making. We were never taught how to make good decisions. We were just told to make them. We don't even know what that looks like. So as a leader, if you think about capacity, burnout and you're disengaged, some of these human skills and elevating teams, you know, not just leaders with this, but elevating teams with human skills starts to really alleviate and make space for other things, because now you're all together in the thing, you've got that connection, and you're starting to build even deeper, right? So I think that, again, we have to look at it just a little bit differently than we have in the past. And nothing that we have out there, that traditionally we've done, is going to change our tomorrow. We have to reinvent new things, which is why Uncharted came. You know, as a it's an experiential program that is human skills. It's completely different than what we've seen before. And it's those types of things that we need to really look at for organizations, and
• 26:05
  Amy Lynn Durham: especially our leaders. If we looked at the workplace 10 years from now, where what kind of leaders would we see, which ones would be thriving? You want my hope? Yeah, well, I want to, I kind of want to know what you're sensing because of all the change management work that you do. But yeah, if we look to the workplace 10 years from now, who's thriving, what leaders are thriving, and what
• 26:30
  Tiffany Connauton: emotionally intelligent, agile, collaborative, definitely collaborative. The age like our learners are going to really, really take off, because it's about empowering the workforce around them, right? So if you think about a leader that was born in our generation, you must know all the answers, you must do, all the things, you must have, everything put together. You are not allowed to be vulnerable. So really, in human like, you're, I don't care that you're, you know, dog died, you're not allowed to be sad because you're a leader, put, put your mask on, do the things. So I think you know that will be anyone that stays in that leadership model won't be around for very much longer. To be honest, it has to be human leaders, and they're already starting to excel. The ones that are vulnerable, the ones that show up real, the ones that, you know, lean on their teams when they need to, the ones that have very, very clear lines of, yes, we are human, and here's our accountability, and this is the job that we need to get done. You know, strong communication skills, and you know, along with support for their staff.
• 27:47
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, because I was just thinking when you were saying all of that, I'm like, that sounds great until profit needs to come through and numbers need to be hit, and then what? So the way that you're pairing it with the accountability, I think sounds achievable, and so the ones that will struggle to me might be the ones that have trouble with accountability or feedback, or the other side of it is some of us that never really learned to show vulnerability or no or haven't started skill building in being that wise and effective change agent or making wise and compassionate decisions. And what does that really mean, and how does that really ripple out? And I will say one thing that I I'm biased, that I clearly experience helping with all of this is executive coaching with with the engagements that we do with create magic at work, many, many times the arc of the engagement is helping a leader. Because I was thinking of the disengaged leader, that's that that is really resonant for me today, with that statistic that you shared, and I was thinking of the disengaged leader and how they're like, I've tried everything, and I'm just so tired, and I'm just done with this, and this isn't the way my life was supposed to look. And you know, they start pondering all these things as they move into maybe their mid to late 30s and beyond, but I'm thinking when an executive coach comes in and helps them move from the fixer to the Empower. There's a lot of cookie cutter language around delegation, but truly, yeah, empowering your team and alleviating yourself from being the fixer something it sounds. Simple, it's not but having somebody like you or I that are mirroring them in that journey has been super transformational that I've been able to witness in these private sessions and organizations. So I just wanted to sort that's what was coming up for me as you were sharing all of that too well.
• 30:25
  Tiffany Connauton: And I think too, I mean, you pointed out, I think, honestly, if I think about so Gen Z will have quite a bit of the skills that we're talking about inherently as they move through and move into leadership roles coming up in the next 510, 15 years, those of us that are already here, that are trying to skill build will need executive coaching probably more than ever, because let's be honest, when we talk about human behavior and mindset changes, it doesn't happen overnight. And just because you and I have a conversation and I totally agree that this is where I want to be, doesn't mean tomorrow I'm going to wake up and be like that. We need safe places to practice. So you know, yes, we can run an uncharted program through an organization. Are the leaders going to need your help and executive coaching after 100% so I think that you know this idea of practice, the idea of safe spaces to get it wrong and to try again is going to be more critical than ever in the success of those that are already in it. The the generations that are coming after us will learn, and they'll need some and then we'll find something new to evolve. And you know, two or three generations will have a brand new problem that we're going to be talking about on a podcast. But you know, like, if I think about what that looks like, you know, within organizations right now, in these shifts, that support will be absolutely critical, as we does, as we kind of, you know, start to practice some of these new behaviors and mindsets. It takes time, you know, it takes messing it up. It takes trying it's and go back to yoga. Yoga is a practice for a reason. So many things, practices, yeah, great
• 32:05
  Amy Lynn Durham: example, yeah, really good. Okay, so I'm gonna pull a card for us from the create magic at work, journal, prompt, card deck. I'm just really feeling like pulling a I haven't used this deck in a while, but the conversation that we've had today around the all of the themes that have emerged, I think, is calling for everyone. If you're a longtime listener, I haven't pulled a card from this deck in a while, but let's see what we get. You get an affirmation, a theme of the week for you, for your career, for your work, and then Tiffany, you'll get an executive coaching question on the fly that we that you can answer for all of the listeners. Oh my gosh. So I haven't seen this card in forever. We got stability. Love, yeah, and the affirmation is, I create stability in my life by consistently working toward my goals, I create stability in my life by consistently working toward my goals. Okay, I think we already answered this in this entire conversation, so maybe if you have another piece of wisdom, you can share it. Tiffany, but the question, this is a journal question. So anybody listening can journal on this as well. But the question is, what inner work can we do to ensure we are open to receive material comfort? What inner work can we do to ensure we are open to receive material comfort. Any advice on that, Tiffany,
• 33:45
  Tiffany Connauton: I am gonna go. So this is, like, really interesting that this is coming up, because it's come up a few times in the last, like week alone in a number of conversations. And it's the idea of consistency. And I think that a lot of times we think that change means big bites like, let's jump in. Let's do it. But I have been reminded so many times lately, it just takes 1% 1% compounds. So if you do a 1% change, and you do that consistently for 30 days, it actually equates to a 35% change. And I'm going to get the rest of these numbers wrong, but like, if you do 1% Change for 365 days, it's like a 3,000% change. So I think that you know as leaders, especially as leaders, when you're thinking about this work, when you're thinking about the changes ahead, when you're thinking about shifting to a different place, think about the 1% think about the pebble that moves mountains, as Thomas would say, you know, like there's, there's so many things that I think we forget, especially when we're looking at corporate vision and aligning to all the things and, you know, budget cycles and strategies and you. All of this stuff gets really big in our brains, but really it takes 1% just 1% so, yeah, definitely journal on what's the 1% shift? It just needs to be one right?
• 35:15
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, that I can do this week just absolutely feels like digestible. Yeah, I love that.
• 35:22
  Tiffany Connauton: And then let it compound. Be consistent. You know, like, how do you create stability by being consistent? So pick that action that you can do that's very minimal, but you can do over time, repetitively, that will, that will go to the change, and maybe it's just journaling one or two things a week. You know, there's so many things that it can be depending on your situation, learning a new word for language wise, you know, talking to one of your staff. Just want, like, just a regular conversation with one of your staff. What does that look like? You know, practicing being vulnerable. Tell one person something that made you sad, you know, like they're they're just just little, tiny bite size, go back to the 1%
• 36:03
  Amy Lynn Durham: that's a great takeaway to end the conversation. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Tiffany. If people want to connect with you and learn more about your work, where can they find you?
• 36:16
  Tiffany Connauton: I am fairly good at LinkedIn, all other social media not so good. That's my 1% improvement than other social media. Definitely on LinkedIn, reach out. I love having conversations, meeting new people you know, hit me up for a quick coffee session. We can do it virtually if we're not close in proximity, or we can do it in person if we are. So that's probably the easiest way to get hold of me.
• 36:42
  Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, cool. Well, thank you for coming on, and thank you for getting us thinking about all of these things, about how we can make ourselves feel better at work. And I mean, my takeaway is kind of like again, like, Let's empower ourselves to make these changes ourselves, even in a 1% way, if you can in your environment and see how that looks over a series of weeks. So thank you so much for being a guest on create magic at work and for sending some magic to everyone today.
• 37:16
  Tiffany Connauton: Thank you so much for having me anyone. It's been a great conversation.
• 37:20
  Amy Lynn Durham: I want to thank each and every one of you for being here as we explore what it really means to Create Magic at Work. If this conversation resonated with you, or if someone came to mind while you were listening, share the episode with them. Help others who are looking for these types of conversations find us and don't forget to follow, subscribe, rate and review, so you're notified when the next episode airs until next time. Keep edge walking, keep challenging the way things have always been done, and keep making magic at work. You.