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The Nepo Hire · Sunday Scaries: Work Edition

• 0:03
  Welcome to The Sunday Scaries: Work Edition, a podcast for hot takes and real talk on all your workplace quandaries, hosted by two burned-out girl bosses who've seen it all.
• 0:13
  I'm Bijal Mehta. I started my career building warehouses and super fast delivery for the Internet's magical two-day shipping. I've worked in Africa, Asia, Europe and North America with both big tech and startups. Over 15 years, I became a vice president leading drone delivery operations. I've managed more than 500 people across the world. And these days, I raise my playful daughter and chat with my good friend, Emily.
• 0:37
  And I'm Emily Tao. I got my start making coffee as a production assistant at CBS News. Eventually, I became the first director of communications at the largest entertainment union in the US and Canada. My 15-year career and counting has taken me from red carpets to political fights to Ivy League admissions offices.
• 0:57
  We're here for your weekly dose of workplace reality. Let's jump in.
• 1:03
  Hi, Bijal. Hi, Emily. I would like to bring up the topic that is Inbox Zero and what a lie it was. Oh, my God. And I wonder if you ever subscribed to that. Oh, my gosh. Like, yeah. No. What is Inbox Zero? First, let's explain it.
• 1:25
  Do people still do this? Yeah, like is it one of those things that no one knows anymore? Or is this just like a curse from the efficiency era of the 2010s? I'm glad if people don't know what Inbox Zero is. You don't need to. Let's curse them with this knowledge.
• 1:40
  Inbox Zero is where you try to get your email inbox to zero every day. Is that right? Or every week? Or at all, at any time. Yeah, even once, ever. I have never been successful. I currently in my personal inbox have 400-plus emails and I have nothing going on in my life that requires that. I have to say that surprises me about you. Why? Because I'm neurotic and type A? Yes.
• 2:06
  Yeah, that makes sense. And just organized and good at doing the things you say you're going to do. That's true. And for a while, I did want to be the Inbox Zero person. But it was so stressful and so horrible and added zero value to anything in my life. And I still think about it today. And it feels like it's like the curse of the morning routine. It's the curse of Inbox Zero where you think you're like, I can optimize. I can do it all. And I just want to damn it here.
• 2:36
  I think the modern day equivalent of Inbox Zero, at least in my sort of cultural ecosystem, is like those reels of people organizing their entire homes in those clear plastic bins. Oh, I've seen those. I think a lot of it's inspired by that home improvement. That home organizing show on Netflix about the rainbows. The Kardashians, I think, showed off their kitchen one time. And I'm like, this is the kitchen of people who do not eat or cook. It's insane. Eat or cook. Yeah. Very specific.
• 3:09
  No, but yeah, I get a lot of this content of people who are like, this is our nightly routine after the kids go to bed. And it's basically of them cleaning their entire mess of a home. Because when you have many kids, your home is going to be in a state of very-lived-in. Yeah. And then everything gets put away every night. And it's pristine. And it's nice. And it's two-parent households. It's a lie! And they're happy. A lie! Yeah.
• 3:34
  That's my - I don't have - I don't work. I don't have emails. That's a lie. But my new Inbox Zero is that your home, your dishes are done, your sink is clean, your clothes are not thrown about, the toys are in their toy bin. That all sounds like a lot. I say Inbox Zero is the digital version of, you know, that, the CleanTok. It's just all shit. I don't believe it.
• 4:01
  It's this weird - It's a morality judgement - perception of like being on top of it and what it means to be an adult. Whereas to your point, like it doesn't actually - I thought it would make me happier and it didn't. I'll say that. Yeah. Yeah. That is all. I just want to state that. I'm so much happier now that I'm like, I don't need to have the sink clean before I go to bed. Yeah. I don't have a dishwasher. So that's like, oh yeah. That's rough. I don't have a dishwasher. So it's not a, it's not a five minute task per se.
• 4:30
  Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, don't do Inbox Zero. And I don't do. Inbox 1000. Inbox 5000. That's our aspiration. Inbox 2026 for 2026.
• 4:44
  All right, let's move on to our question. All right. I think you're going to really love this one. Okay. I picked it out especially for you. Aw.
• 4:54
  "Dear Sunday Scaries. My boss has employed her stepdaughter at the company." Oh my God. "And I think it's really inappropriate. Nobody knows what the daughter does. I think it's social media and we don't even need that. What can I do? Signed. I Don't Want No Nepo Babies."
• 5:19
  Oh my gosh. You can do nothing. There is nothing to be done. Oh my God. Okay. Um, I am curious. I have questions. Right. I think it depends.
• 5:32
  How do you know that this hire is the stepdaughter? Right. Did you find out? Is this something that they're kind of publicly talking about? Oh, like, is it the rumor of it? Yeah. Rumor mill or did the boss actually be like, this is Gracie, my stepdaughter. Right. That.
• 5:47
  My other question. Um, their job duties are "social media," which I just did air quotes. It's very nebulous. And it could be something that is - I've worked in things that are social media. Right. And so it could be communications, it could be PR, it could be marketing, right? Could cover all of that. It could be publicity. It could be a real job or it could just be like they sit on their phone all day and they just kind of scroll whatever they feel like that day. And put a few posts up. Yeah, put a few blips up here and there without any real purpose.
• 6:15
  So it could, which, which side, uh, which spectrum do they fall on for that? And then, um, are they doing a good job? Actually, that's maybe my real question. I think about nepo babies a lot, especially having worked in entertainment where, you know, nepo baby actors are a big thing, right? Getting your foot in the door, getting your big break is because you're a nepo baby. But I'm like, if you can do the job, I'm not mad.
• 6:41
  If you can actually act and your parents were actors and they got you that acting role. Great. If you can actually sing and you want to be a singer and your parents - So you don't care that someone gets the job purely out of a connection, a nepo connection. You just care that they're performant once they're there. I think ultimately, yes. I feel like it's just like a luckier version of good networking, you know?
• 7:07
  Yeah, my DNA was hard at work. You got real lucky. But if you can do the job, I am not mad. And if you're not a weird jerk about it, I mean, I was not born into none of that. As a child of immigrants, I was born into inherited generational trauma, which does not really help with the job search stuff other than, again, making myself neurotic and type A. But still did not land me to Inbox Zero. So there's all that.
• 7:33
  So I think I'm not too mad about it. I think there is a discomfort, you know why, this - this letter writer wrote about it? Because it does feel very uncomfortable. But again, if they do a good job - But again, it goes against this like ethos of American meritocracy. Which is a lie! But we're infused with it, we're raised with it. And particularly, I think if you come here out of recent immigrants, like that's the whole mentality. That's the - my dad talks so much about. That you can work your way up from nothing. Yes, the allure of that, right? My dad talked about that a lot, too. Yeah.
• 8:15
  So I can see why it might just like needle you in this way. But has that been your experience? Meritocracy? Yeah, meritocracy. I feel like we've talked about this before. Especially in the era where we were working really hard trying to establish our careers at the beginning. And I think it was also this era of the Girl Boss Era where you work really hard and it'll pay off. And right now I'm like, that feels like a damn lie. That feels like the more power you have, the easier it is to gain. It's like Monopoly: the more you win, the more you stay winning. And the harder you lose, you can't scramble your way back up.
• 8:55
  I don't know, actually. I actually think that - I mean, but Monopoly kind of is meritocracy in that way. And I hate that game! The difference is it's not based on who works harder. It's who lands on the right spots, right? It's pure luck. Hence nepo babies. But to answer your question of like, has meritocracy proven true for my lived experience? I think in - sufficiently so, yeah. And it kind of comes down to expectations, I would say.
• 9:26
  But I did really well in school. And I also did - or I should say well enough. I mean, I went to state school, but I got into honors programs, I got fairly good grades. I was able to access, because of that, some more like private recruiting. Like not private, but it was like the business school had - I didn't have to go through like general recruiting of applying on company websites. I got to go through the college. You didn't cold apply.
• 9:57
  Yeah, yeah. And so like my school and the program was specifically, certain companies would come and specifically have slots for people from that school. Or they really wanted to see if they could find future hires from people from that school. And so that's definitely an advantage.
• 10:15
  And then I, at work itself, I very much got promoted because of my performance in what I felt like was pretty quick order. And eventually ended up becoming an executive. And I would say when it comes to my personal life and my life goals, you know, I did well enough financially that I'm able to take time off while I'm a mom for my daughter, which is absolutely what I wanted.
• 10:46
  I don't necessarily check the boxes that a lot of people think I should at my age. I don't own a house. I don't, you know, I don't go on vacations really. Like I don't go to fancy restaurants. So I'm not like living a certain kind of lifestyle. But I'm comfortable for what I want in life. And so I do feel like my hard work paid off for my set of dreams.
• 11:15
  But I also do believe that there was a ceiling and that it was going to take a lot to push past, especially at that executive level in tech and in the Pacific Northwest that I think is very friendly to men, very friendly to white men. And it did feel like it kind of came down more to personality at the end than performance.
• 11:42
  So I think performance matters to a degree, especially when you're an individual contributor, it can take you far. But there's kind of this like mid-management level. And interestingly, my father, who's always worked in corporate and he worked in telecom his whole life, he also, I think, peaked at like a director, mid-management level and couldn't seem to get further than that.
• 12:06
  And so that's, I don't know what's true. Like I'm like, I haven't read like research on, you know, what is the truth about meritocracy and whether it's real or just totally a myth. But just on my own lived experience and not comparing to other people, I put in work, I did put in a lot of work, and I did get a lot of good reward from that and reward that I'm very satisfied with. And I am sure that a less competent person of the right kind of background or somebody who has a lot more knowledge on like networking and social connections and like all these things that honestly I feel quite awkward around might have gotten even farther. And there was this like, there was for sure a ceiling that I was hitting up against at the end of my career.
• 12:56
  Yeah, I think it's so interesting you say that because I feel like tech is very well known for if you apply for a job, you want to apply through someone who already works there. That's like the most common advice given. And that's not quite nepotism, but it's like I've been told, oh, if you apply to like Google and you just cold apply on the website, nobody will read it unless like Emily who works at Google is the one who recommended you. Right, unless you have this endorsement. And like at the end of the day, are endorsements - so you're almost getting at what's the difference between networking and like being a nepo baby?
• 13:35
  And you know the equivalent of that that I definitely heard of is - I never got an MBA, but a lot of the MBA groups sort of work that way. How do you mean? Oh, they would just... Like they all recommend each other? Yeah, it's just like basically, oh, you also went to Duke? I went to Duke. Great. I'm going to recommend you. It's like they didn't need to know anything else about you when it came to giving your stamp of approval, your endorsement, helping get you a job. There's so many groups like that though! Fraternities and sororities, social ones. I have a master's degree, and if you went to the same school, but not even the same program or the same year, that's already a connection and like a positive, a plus. Right. Yeah.
• 14:19
  So nepo baby, I just, I keep going back to "you got lucky." And perhaps this is a little bit like socialist of me, but I keep going back to the larger U.S. work system is not set up for, to benefit the middle class or the working class. Not anymore. I think a lot of policies have not been strengthened for working people. I think that you can work so hard, but you will hit a ceiling because of people much richer and much more powerful than you. The billionaires that are purposefully keeping it this way for us, the majority.
• 14:55
  I mean, if we're going to go down that line of social class structure... I just can't help but think about that when we talk about meritocracy. I feel like it cannot be talked in isolation. Yeah, I think it's a solid point. I would actually just go further and say it's not just about the billionaires. It's like whatever class group, socioeconomic class group, you're part of. And the group above you is always going to be operating in a certain way that feels impenetrable.
• 15:26
  So like, you know, my family growing up, by the time kind of I was more aware and everything, I would say we were solidly middle class and then grew to upper middle class, right? And so, in my case, it's like, okay, sure. The billionaires are going to have more power than me. Also, I think what I've definitely found is just Americans who are not for, like immigrant Americans who have been here many generations or the ones who have legacy in terms of their parents had professional educations and went to college and were in these circles. They're inheriting a set of know-how and network from their parents.
• 16:06
  I always found that they just felt like they knew more, had two feet in the door, whereas I only had one or I had a hand. That felt like a very difficult race to overcome. As much as you might get close, you're never going to get past them. I cycle and this is a little bit in cycling where you're just like, okay, it feels like it's a small thing. I'm going 18 miles per hour and they're going 19. That's a really hard thing to overcome though.
• 16:39
  It's like the physical labor you have to put in to trying to get a one-minute pass on somebody is huge, huge! And that's very hard, but I would just say, i just keeps going. So if we're complaining that there's a ceiling for us, a much more working class individual or family unit, they're going to feel like what we're talking about and our realities just feel completely impenetrable and would feel like an amazing amount of power or access relative to maybe the position that they're in.
• 17:19
  Yeah, and I will say, I think you and I are privileged in a lot of ways, right? Absolutely. Our access to education, coming from with families who could support us going through college. I am actually thinking about my very, very first job when I worked in television and I was a production assistant with a couple other PAs. Those PAs, one was the daughter of the CEO of Food Network, another was the daughter of a very famous documentarian, another was the niece of a very famous movie director, and another was a grandnephew removed from a very famous movie director.
• 17:58
  Did you ever have that, "oh my gosh," that sense of awe around these people and their connections? I wanted to, but I just - we were doing such stupid work. We were all PAs. You were all just getting coffee. Yeah, exactly. We were getting coffee and maybe one person got to transcribe audio files and that felt fancier than getting coffee. But I'm like, but ultimately you're all PAs.
• 18:26
  Now their careers have gone on and I haven't looked, I haven't followed them. Some have gone on to do more entertainment, but I'm like this didn't hurt them, but it didn't necessarily help them doing this PA job. But it looks good on the resume and it builds up, but also they might not have gotten this job if they were not so-and-so's daughter or so-and-so's son.
• 18:46
  You know, that's a really interesting point that - or I don't know if it's the point you're making, but the thing that came across to me is, like basically nepotism might get you the role and it might even get you a high degree of power and influence, like your scope, your responsibility. The PAs had none though, I'll say that. Yeah, the PAs, it sounds like, didn't. But eventually like post, you know, their next role or their third role possibly came to them easier or they didn't quite have to earn it at the same degree, but it's not necessarily going to get you the respect, right?
• 19:19
  And if you don't work on your craft, you're not going to be as good. Like that's just kind of it. And so that's why for this person I'm like, is the stepdaughter good at her job? I do think that's quite important. I understand the discomfort that comes with it, but having been in that situation multiple times: hey, if they can do their job, I am not mad how they got it.
• 19:45
  Yeah, that's all I can ask. You know, interestingly, I do think I empathize a little bit more with what I'm reading from this question or assuming from this question is just like annoyance, right? This sort of like blanket annoyance.
• 20:00
  Like, okay, I mean, to me there's two elements to the question and it might not be what the question asker is actually trying to put out there. Tell me what you're reading in here. What I'm reading is like one element is, it does sound like this individual just doesn't have a well-scoped role. Right. And so like... "Social media is my job." Yeah, "social media is my job." So like you're saying like, oh, but are they good at their job? Well, it's not clear they have a job. They have a paycheck, but do they have a job? The dream, am I right?
• 20:29
  So that might be not like enough to go. You know, it might just be that the individual is, yeah, just goofing off a bit, right? Because they don't seem to have a clear set of responsibility, which would be annoying. It's annoying to be around someone who's just sort of there but not really working at the same level as everyone else. Yes, absolutely.
• 20:51
  But at the same time, to the point of this conversation, eventually they're going to leave. They can only go so far just collecting a paycheck. Or they'll never leave, and you know what? They'll never be able to get a job anywhere else. Yes. This is going to hurt them so much. And you'll move on, is the other truth, right? Yeah. So it's a temporary sort of grievance in a way. Right.
• 21:10
  But the other element to this question that I read is just this like almost sense of injustice, right? Like it's just unfair. It's not fair. And we've kind of been circling on that as well. But I do have a little bit more empathy for that point of view of the raw sense of it's unfair. In that, like I think it's reasonable to feel that way.
• 21:35
  It is reasonable to feel that way. And I am going to bring something up: for you and me, when we get our next full-time jobs, if we decide to do that, it is most likely going to be through our personal connections.
• 21:50
  Absolutely, but... Does that feel the same degree of unfair? I mean, I think somebody would say that those personal connections were... So mine would be likely through my professional connections, I think. Yeah, I think that's what I mean. Like people that you know that you maybe met on work sites or professionally but are still connected to you in your personal life as well.
• 22:13
  Right. And so that's earned, right? I mean, or my perception is I earned it because I built a good reputation. I'm a credible person. And therefore, this individual is going to help me.
• 22:26
  Maybe what you're challenging, and I think rightfully so, is that that might not be at all why they're helping you. They're just helping you because that's how the world works and they know you. And so, and actually, a friend and I were talking about this yesterday. She's a good friend of mine who I also had the uncommon experience of working with. I helped her get a job, but she is a friend from childhood. And so there's a little nepo overlap there! A childhood family friend! I know! Interesting.
• 23:00
  But we were talking about the fact that she still keeps in touch with so many more people at our old place of work than I do. And I was just commenting on the fact that I felt like she had this great presence at the company. People wanted to know her. And they still want to know her and they still want to keep in touch. Whereas the people who want to keep in touch with me are usually the people that I directly worked with and built deep relationships with. A lot of them, honestly, are the people on my team. But if you didn't work for me, if you're just like a peer colleague, honestly, most people didn't keep in touch.
• 23:38
  But I think if you ask them for like a recommendation or a favor or something, they would most likely still say yes. Yeah, you're probably... Just from knowing you. You're probably right. And I think that's sort of what I learned in talking to her. I sort of interpreted the fact that all these people are keeping in touch with her as like a symbol of like friendship. I was like, wow, you have made so many more friends than I did. I see. And she was like, no, this is all just opportunistic.
• 24:08
  Wow. And she gave a really specific example of another kind of ex-employee who kept in touch with her and was asking some specific questions related to the company. And they just thought that, the reason they had reached out to her was because they thought she would be in the know. Because she also... Oh! Right? Because of her own network. Effectively, keeping in touch is also keeping in the know.
• 24:35
  And my friend is someone who comes across as being in the know. And so I was thinking, oh, these people are your friends. And she's like, no, they're just kind of using me. And not in this mean-spirited way, but like, no, this is... Very negative way of saying networking, I think. Yeah, networking or transactional, right? And I think that was quite an interesting conversation for me.
• 25:03
  I don't know. think, personally, my brain doesn't totally work that way. To be honest, it's kind of weird that I worked so long in corporate. Yeah, I feel like this would be part of your corporate jargon. No, it's just not my personality! Yeah. Then perhaps the next step of getting our new jobs is we marry into a company owner. And then they... And make nepo babies? Or become a nepo spouse. Oh, okay. I don't want to be a nepo spouse! You don't? It is a lot of work. I'm good with having their paycheck. In different ways.
• 25:43
  You still have to go to the office or do something! I don't want to do anything. Remote nepo spouse. I don't want to do Inbox Zero. I don't want to have a job. I just want to... Dang! I just want to be taken care of. No, that's not quite it either. Baby baby! Instead of a nepo baby, we just become straight up babies. Yeah, adult babies. I just want to be an adult baby! That is my next job. Isn't that the dream? Yeah, that's the dream. Adult babies. Yeah.
• 26:13
  So Bijal, since you have this empathy for this question asker, I wonder what is your key takeaway for this person? Oh, I think I'm on the same page as you. Yeah? Oh, yeah. I have empathy for that reaction of just being like, I don't like it. I don't think this is right. I think that's the kind of a, you know, I don't want this, what do I do?
• 26:38
  I think that's all a very reasonable kind of initial reaction. And yet, I think my answer is the same as you: You can't do anything., just get over it. Yeah. Them's the brakes, kid. Them's the brakes. I think that it's super accurate that if you, you know, take the concept of nepo babies further and you're like, what's the difference between that and, like, your frat buddy helping you get a job or, like, these other forms of connection and networking and kind of, like, advantage that you have fundamentally over other class groups. And every class group has some kind of advantage over the other to greater degrees. And I get why it can feel unfair. Right?
• 27:20
  So I have empathy for the emotion of it, I think. And then I'm also like, at the end of the day, you have your reality of, like, what life dealt with you, dealt you, like, what, you know, what cards you got in life. And just focus on what you want. Like, who cares about the nepo baby, dude? Why are you at this job? Why do you love this job? Focus on that. Make yourself happy. Know what your dreams are. Forget what everyone else's are. Right? Yeah.
• 27:48
  It is unfair. I agree with you. And that feeling of injustice can really, it would grate at me. And then the other part is the mindfulness of knowing this is not in your control. The gratitude I would have that it sounds like you don't have to manage this person because that is a whole other beast. This person who doesn't seem to have a great job. Yeah. The social media stepdaughter. You don't have to manage them, you don't have to give them feedback, you don't have to give them performance reviews.
• 28:15
  And I do think if they're good at their job, hey, good for them. They got lucky. If they are not good at their job, this is going to hurt them so much in the long run in ways that will not affect you. So that's not to make you feel better, it's just, you know, this is their choice as well to take this opportunity to make of it what they will. And definitely follow her on LinkedIn and see where she's at. Five to ten years. And tell us!
• 28:42
  Okay, any takeaways for yourself? I have worked with a lot of nepo babies is what I'm realizing. Clearly! What are they doing? Are you following them on LinkedIn? I am not. You know, some of them I think have branched off to do their own careers. Some have actually gone on to do bigger and bigger directing jobs and, you know, basically get promoted through entertainment. But in a very different area, a very different content niche from their parent. And then some have gone on to do like weird indie art things, which is what they wanted to do in the first place.
• 29:17
  So none of it was really super direct nepo baby, you know? And again, working as a production assistant in New York City, it was not glamorous, so...
• 29:27
  I think for me, a takeaway is just the overlap that exists between all forms of sort of, let's call it "tribal networking." Like you network on behalf of people in your own tribe, your own background, whatever thing that you have in common. And like, nepo family connections is another version of that. You could say it's a less fair version of that. Yeah, okay, I could see the argument.
• 29:57
  But at the end of the day, that is just kind of the reality, whether you take part in it or not. I'm not sure. And that's just receiving help! I think, the other thing, being asked for help - I do want to help most people in my life. Oh, I almost always say yes when people ask. Yeah!
• 30:12
  Which is kind of lovely, when you think about it, because job searching is really hard. It is. Unpleasant. Very, very hard. Indeed. All right, well, dear I Don't Want No Nepo Babies. I think you got it! Sorry. And it'll be okay! Tough luck and you'll be okay.
• 30:37
  That's it for this week's Sunday Scaries: Work Edition. If this episode resonated with you, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review!
• 30:47
  Got a workplace horror story or a burning question? Send it our way at sunday.scaries.work.edition@gmail.com. We might tackle it in a future episode. Or just have a good private laugh.
• 31:02
  Sunday Scaries: Work Edition is produced by Emily Tao and Bijal Mehta. Our theme music is by Bitter Old Men and artwork is by Erin Leeder. Until next week: may your inbox stay manageable and your work-life balance tip towards life. Bye!