Latest / Spinning the Light Podcast / Srujana Grummalla; Follow Your Passion

Transcript

Srujana Grummalla; Follow Your Passion · Spinning the Light Podcast

• 0:03
  Hello and welcome to two girls in a pod I'm.
• 0:05
  Sharon, I'm Christy, welcome. Everybody.
• 0:09
  Hi and we have a guest with us today.
• 0:12
  Her name is Trujana. We met her through, I believe,
• 0:16
  Erica Johnson. She was on a previous episode.
• 0:20
  We want to welcome you on today. Hi, Sharon and thank you so much
• 0:24
  for having me. Yeah, we were talking a little
• 0:27
  bit about your last name, and because people say, well, I did,
• 0:30
  they introduced her by her last name.
• 0:31
  What is your last name? You pronounce it.
• 0:34
  Yeah, Kamala, you can call Kamala.
• 0:37
  Yeah, Okay. Was that like a version that we
• 0:40
  can say? Yeah, Okay.
• 0:43
  Thanks. Bye.
• 0:44
  So you worked with Erica, so can you tell us a little bit about
• 0:48
  that? Yeah, so I came in to USB
• 0:52
  football around January as. Mental performance education
• 0:57
  intern. So it's my positions under the
• 1:01
  research and education department for my specialty is
• 1:04
  mental performance. So that's all I know, Erica.
• 1:08
  I actually wanted view it for USA Football around this time
• 1:13
  last year, which is when I actually met Erica.
• 1:15
  And then we were just talking and she told me about, like, how
• 1:20
  USA Football takes some interns. Later in the year.
• 1:23
  And I just kept in touch with her and.
• 1:25
  Whenever it happened, it happened.
• 1:27
  And all of. It came together.
• 1:29
  But it was sort of, I always say like I should end the betters
• 1:33
  way of getting that internship of me just on a running
• 1:38
  Saturday, just going to volunteer at this event that
• 1:42
  I've never like been at hold off before and just meeting like
• 1:47
  really lovely people and then just all of this happening so.
• 1:51
  Oh nice. Yeah.
• 1:52
  So what exactly does that mean? Mental performance when you're
• 1:57
  when you're talking about that. Yeah, so I got my degree
• 2:01
  recently, my masters in sported performance psychology.
• 2:05
  So yeah, so basically what mental performance is, is sport
• 2:10
  and like psychology for sport and performance.
• 2:12
  So it's using or developing psychological skills and using
• 2:18
  them in performance or sport or high risk occupations or
• 2:23
  corporate, business world, whatever it is.
• 2:25
  It's like the simplest way of saying it.
• 2:27
  So how actually it's go to the gym for building up, mustn't
• 2:32
  working out, Just use a workout for your mind, essentially,
• 2:36
  Yeah. So when you say that, what does
• 2:39
  that mean? If so, if you were working with
• 2:40
  an athlete, what are you working with them on?
• 2:43
  You know, if you were doing like a do you do one on ones, do you
• 2:46
  do group? How does that work?
• 2:48
  Both like whatever works best for them, like if it's a team
• 2:52
  that. One is working with you do team
• 2:54
  sessions. If they want individual
• 2:56
  sessions, you know individual sessions with them.
• 2:59
  If it's an individual sport you're working with, for example
• 3:02
  swimming or diving, then mostly individual sessions with them.
• 3:07
  Unless you're the whole team is your client, then you recruit
• 3:11
  sessions and. Individual sessions with them
• 3:13
  so. If you're working with a team,
• 3:16
  you work on things like team cohesion and collective
• 3:20
  confidence and. Teamwork and culture and values,
• 3:25
  which are mostly like the things I've worked on with teams.
• 3:29
  If it's individuals, like whatever they think is getting
• 3:32
  in the way of their performance, like performance anxiety or lack
• 3:36
  of coincidence, lack of motivation, lack of commitment,
• 3:40
  just things like that. Sometimes there's nothing wrong,
• 3:43
  and sometimes they just want to work and get better and better
• 3:47
  and better on something that they want to get better on.
• 3:50
  So it's an. Necessary that there's always
• 3:53
  something lacking in their performance.
• 3:56
  So it's just kind of enhancing what they already have.
• 3:59
  Yeah. Okay.
• 4:00
  Do the athletes come to you or do coaches sometimes say to
• 4:05
  their athletes you've got some problem here, you know you're
• 4:08
  not hitting your potential. It might.
• 4:10
  We think it's more of a mental block.
• 4:12
  We're going to send you to talk to somebody or.
• 4:14
  It could. Be either on the street like
• 4:16
  sometimes the athletes themselves like, want to.
• 4:19
  See a mental performance coach or a sports psychologist or a
• 4:22
  performance psychologist. Sometimes the coaches record the
• 4:26
  athletes out, like I think you should see a mental performance.
• 4:29
  Coach. Sometimes the parents refer.
• 4:32
  The kids to. A mental performance coach like
• 4:35
  it could be any of those situations.
• 4:38
  What organizations have you got to work with while you've been
• 4:41
  doing this program? That has to remain confidential.
• 4:46
  OK. I guess I meant, I guess the
• 4:50
  question was do you work more with female athletes or male
• 4:53
  athletes was more the? It was definitely a good mix of
• 4:56
  four, OK. Yeah.
• 4:58
  Do you find there's a difference when you're working with the
• 5:01
  male versus a female athlete? I think working with male
• 5:05
  athletes in the beginning, it takes a while to build that
• 5:09
  comfort, especially because. I think it's because I come from
• 5:14
  a different part of the world, like being a woman of color from
• 5:18
  another country here and consulting with male athletes.
• 5:23
  And sometimes like, I think like in the beginning there's a
• 5:26
  little bit of, like, I don't think discomfort, but just
• 5:30
  there's just one thing and it takes a while.
• 5:32
  But like, I've always been able to make and build that.
• 5:35
  It takes a while to build a rapport with them.
• 5:38
  Yes, I'm being honest like. And when it does, I think it's
• 5:40
  just lucky and I've never had like a complete issue, a
• 5:44
  complete problem. Of all.
• 5:45
  Building like a good consulting relationship, do you think?
• 5:48
  Sometimes that's even because, you know, like you said, when
• 5:51
  you come from another part of the world, they sit there and
• 5:52
  say, well, what sports do you play?
• 5:55
  I mean, things like that. And not understanding that when
• 5:57
  you're working on the mental piece, it doesn't matter what
• 6:00
  part of the world you're in. We all have the same mental
• 6:02
  capacity, you know what I mean? The same stuff going on.
• 6:05
  Do you think it's something like that sometimes within that
• 6:07
  barrier or whatever? Or we can start as a barrier
• 6:11
  until it's until you work on the relationship.
• 6:14
  Yeah, I think in the field in general, a lot of times, like a
• 6:18
  lot of introductions start. With what sport did you?
• 6:20
  Play and I did play sport, so I do have an answer for that.
• 6:26
  And I know, like being an athlete or having P1 experience,
• 6:31
  having collegiate experience does like help you understand
• 6:36
  and empathize with athletes better.
• 6:38
  And I also don't know why it's the first question, like
• 6:40
  introduce yourself, where are you from and what sport did you
• 6:43
  play? And it's not even like, did you
• 6:45
  have any other performing background?
• 6:47
  Like, were you a musician? Or.
• 6:49
  Were you a dancer? Like that could be so much more
• 6:53
  to performing. I think it's really changing.
• 6:56
  Well, I think that like question, I heard it less for
• 6:59
  now. But yeah, it does start off like
• 7:02
  that, and I think it's. Part of that revolve building
• 7:05
  with your clients is sharing your performance background.
• 7:09
  So I've always been open to doing that and sometimes I get
• 7:12
  questions from them like what was this like and what was that
• 7:15
  like You did this and like how was it?
• 7:17
  And it just helps build that relationship, especially in the
• 7:21
  post session when they're just getting to know you're just
• 7:24
  getting to know them so often. Always been open to answering
• 7:28
  that and I do get. That asked.
• 7:30
  A lot, yeah. So what sport did you play?
• 7:35
  Good question. So I started off with Jack and
• 7:39
  Field. I want to say I'm like 8 years
• 7:42
  old. My dad was an athlete, so he
• 7:44
  speaks with. He always wanted me to like get
• 7:48
  into athletics. But it came a little bit later
• 7:50
  and I don't think he was expecting it, but it just
• 7:52
  happened and then when I got a little bit.
• 7:55
  Older. I got into basketball.
• 7:58
  And made for the school team and everything.
• 8:01
  I was gone. I was still like dracticing Jack
• 8:04
  and field through like while I was doing basketball and high
• 8:08
  jump became my spot and it I ended up going to nationals
• 8:13
  where like representing my state for high jump as well.
• 8:16
  It wasn't something I necessarily this is something I
• 8:19
  always say I enjoyed very much. It was just something I was
• 8:23
  really good at and I didn't did it between.
• 8:27
  I ended up I used to when you're in there whenever I could.
• 8:31
  But. Yeah, it was high jump and then
• 8:34
  I tried soccer for a little bit, but I ended up getting a few
• 8:39
  injuries and then my mom was like, that is it for this.
• 8:42
  Sport go back to high jump. Yeah, she.
• 8:47
  Said go back, but yeah. Okay.
• 8:50
  And I also like danced, since I was surely young.
• 8:53
  So I used to dance competitively and it's just been something
• 8:57
  that's been very, very close to my heart and a lot of my
• 9:00
  friendships developed full dance on my themes and everything.
• 9:04
  So it's something that's actually so you did competitive
• 9:08
  dance. Yeah.
• 9:09
  What was your genre that you did?
• 9:11
  Like a lot of Indian folk, okay there's a lot of Indian folk
• 9:16
  types. So some of those and all
• 9:19
  Freestyle, Bollywood, Openpic, pop.
• 9:22
  Just I think sometimes people forget the value of dance and
• 9:27
  just how much stamina you need for it and flexibility and
• 9:33
  agility and all of those things. I remember a long time ago they
• 9:38
  took the football players, were talking about ballet dancers and
• 9:42
  Pooh poohing them. And so they said okay, come do
• 9:45
  it. They would be like, Oh my God,
• 9:47
  that is intense. It is intense.
• 9:50
  And you know, they're coming out all you know, cuz it's body
• 9:53
  parts you don't think you use, I guess.
• 9:55
  Right. So honestly, So what is your
• 9:58
  goal with having a master's in this?
• 10:01
  What comes next for you when you think long term?
• 10:04
  I mean, do you go on for a doctorate or?
• 10:08
  That is a big question, something that I asked myself
• 10:11
  everyday. And my parents asked me every
• 10:13
  day. Now you're asking me like, what
• 10:16
  are you? Gonna do when you grow up.
• 10:20
  Well. Now I'm happy with my I'm happy
• 10:24
  with what I got out of it. I'm extremely satisfied with the
• 10:31
  knowledge and skills and abilities that my program, my
• 10:35
  school gave me. And I think there's so much
• 10:38
  more. I think there's so much more I
• 10:40
  need to add to my competence. And there will always be, there
• 10:43
  will always be something that I have to do better and better.
• 10:46
  And I hope there is. I hope there's not a time when
• 10:48
  I'm like, oh, I know everything. There will never, no.
• 10:52
  Yeah, they keep changing things. Yeah, and I love that.
• 10:56
  I love that because it means that something good is
• 10:59
  happening. It means that something's adding
• 11:01
  on to what you already know. I would love to do adoption at
• 11:07
  some point. And because I just.
• 11:10
  Of course I This is a weird thing that my friends tell me.
• 11:13
  But I love school. I love being in school.
• 11:17
  I love assignments. I love tests.
• 11:20
  I loving dance. I love reading.
• 11:22
  I love. Homework.
• 11:24
  It's just. My friends tell me that's so.
• 11:26
  Weird, but it's true. So you could be a professional
• 11:30
  student. Yeah.
• 11:32
  Oh my God. Yes, yes, my God.
• 11:34
  If that's a job, well, it's. Wrong.
• 11:37
  That's one of the reasons why I do want to go back to school is
• 11:40
  I just love studying and I want to build my competence more and
• 11:44
  I want to get that extra training or so.
• 11:47
  I do think adopted sooner or later is in the works.
• 11:52
  So even though it's mental performance, you guys aren't
• 11:57
  licensed though, are you? You don't do it.
• 11:59
  License. No, it depends.
• 12:01
  Like there are people that go for their license show and like
• 12:04
  they have to take the. Coursework.
• 12:07
  In school and get their hours and then they can get their
• 12:10
  license if they wish. But it's not a requirement like
• 12:14
  for most positions like that or. The thing if your job requires
• 12:20
  you to do mental health related stuff, then it is.
• 12:25
  Therefore there's a requirement when it's mental performance
• 12:28
  which is different from mental health treatment, right?
• 12:32
  More often than not, it's not a requirement, but it's always.
• 12:37
  It's record like it's always good to have that extra
• 12:39
  competence I guess. OK, All right.
• 12:42
  Because I think for so for somebody who's licensed, it's
• 12:46
  easier for a licensed person to go into other fields than for
• 12:49
  other fields to come into license because of the different
• 12:52
  requirements that it you have with that because you're right.
• 12:56
  Then you have to have the mental health piece of it.
• 12:59
  OK. But that's not something you
• 13:00
  want to do. You just want to continue with
• 13:02
  the performance piece of it. I couldn't do it the last two
• 13:06
  years. Just because of something that
• 13:08
  came up, I couldn't. But if I do do my doctorate,
• 13:11
  then it's probably something that I will.
• 13:13
  Pursue Okay. What's the funnest thing for you
• 13:17
  about working with athletes? I would say just when something
• 13:22
  clicks for them, like when we're working on something for
• 13:26
  sessions and sessions, sessions and they try something out that
• 13:31
  we talked about and it works for them.
• 13:35
  And then they come back and then, like, I did this and it
• 13:37
  worked so well. I think that's fun because
• 13:41
  they're happy about it. I'm like, secretly jumping and
• 13:44
  dancing inside of myself. Like yes.
• 13:47
  It worked for you. Yeah, and I think that is the
• 13:53
  most fulfilling, satisfying, fun part, I guess.
• 14:02
  And watching them shy things out that we spoke about, they're
• 14:05
  just a gender like anything. Or working with my clients.
• 13:59
  And also sometimes just going out on the speed to watch.
• 14:08
  Just watching them on the field like that.
• 14:09
  This is game performances, whatever that is.
• 14:13
  Well, I think it's interesting when you say that because, you
• 14:15
  know, I think sometimes when you're you're asking people to
• 14:19
  do stuff outside their comfort zone, they're kind of resistive.
• 14:23
  Like, how is that going to help me run faster or do this or do
• 14:27
  that, you know what I mean? But then they do try and it's
• 14:30
  like, was this a fluke or is it going to happen?
• 14:33
  Is it going to work the next time?
• 14:35
  You know what I mean? So I think sometimes there's
• 14:38
  kind of that resistance, not because they're being resistant
• 14:41
  to you, but they're resistant to that idea or that change that
• 14:47
  doesn't resonate with them yet. Yeah, yeah, that's all valid and
• 14:51
  we all do that. Don't be like whenever it's
• 14:53
  something that is something that's challenging us to like
• 14:57
  step outside of our comfort zone.
• 14:59
  We're all a little bit like. Hesitant.
• 15:01
  And then if it works out, we're like how does that?
• 15:03
  Work like. It was totally something I've
• 15:05
  never done before. And something that I learned
• 15:08
  like a little bit after, like a little later in my career, is
• 15:13
  that I or my clients don't completely have to step out of
• 15:18
  our comfort zone. And this is something that one
• 15:20
  of my mentors told me is that you can always take things from
• 15:25
  your comfort zone. You can always.
• 15:28
  Make resources, strengths, lessons, Learn whatever that is
• 15:33
  from your comfort zone and you can stay a little bit in that
• 15:38
  and you can step out a little bit so that you have the
• 15:41
  resources to support you when you're into something that's
• 15:44
  pushing you out. Of your comfort zone.
• 15:47
  And I saw that working for myself and I've encouraged more
• 15:52
  of my clients to do that too. And yeah, so that it's not
• 15:56
  completely overwhelming and it's not something completely new and
• 16:01
  alien to them. Well, I think people create this
• 16:04
  idea of what their comfort zone is and not understanding.
• 16:08
  They have this repertoire of skills, sets and all of this
• 16:13
  that they may use in other arenas, but don't realize it's a
• 16:16
  skill set they can use even in sports.
• 16:19
  But it feels like a step outside of their comfort zone when it it
• 16:22
  truly isn't. But we use that term, step
• 16:25
  outside your comfort zone because people will say, well,
• 16:29
  that's outside, you know? Yeah.
• 16:30
  Well, you know, I don't know if I know that just isn't going to
• 16:32
  work for me. I don't think so.
• 16:33
  I've never done that before. But then you sit there and talk
• 16:36
  to him. But they're doing it over here.
• 16:38
  Yep. I think that's different, but
• 16:40
  it's not. So it's helping them bridge that
• 16:42
  thing to understand that a lot of the skills or a lot of that
• 16:46
  mental fortitude they already have, they just don't know.
• 16:51
  That expands to other arenas, sometimes like.
• 16:54
  It's an untapped skill for this part as well.
• 16:57
  Yeah. So it's.
• 16:59
  I mean, it's fun when they finally realize that.
• 17:02
  Yeah, a lot of a lot of these things are something they
• 17:06
  already know, like either in whether it is in sport or if it
• 17:11
  is in school, or if it is for their home, family, whatever it
• 17:15
  is. Most of these things I think
• 17:17
  that they already. I most like some of these things
• 17:20
  if one most already think that they have within themselves that
• 17:24
  they already do and we just give them that push or the
• 17:29
  actualization or yeah, I guess we like basically why I already
• 17:33
  have this or I have the ability to do this.
• 17:37
  One of the things we talked about Erica, she has such a
• 17:40
  strong passion about females breaking that ceiling in sports
• 17:44
  and you know, even getting in, you know, as a female working
• 17:47
  for a sports team that's all male and kind of going in there
• 17:51
  and finding that place. What is it like for you working
• 17:54
  with female? Because we kind of talked a
• 17:55
  little bit about the male athletes, but what about what is
• 17:58
  it like for you to work with female athletes?
• 18:00
  And I was talking about this with one of my supervisors like
• 18:05
  last year is after a very long time I got a full female or team
• 18:10
  of clients. And until then, I was consulting
• 18:13
  with a lot of male teams. And when I did get that female
• 18:18
  team, it's just different. Like it's good different if
• 18:22
  there's something that connects that like womanhood or I don't
• 18:27
  know what it is, but it just feels different.
• 18:30
  They're talking like, hey, yeah, I don't this is the same thing.
• 18:33
  I told my supervisors I could have been on it, but after such
• 18:36
  a long time that I've gotten this female identifying team
• 18:40
  and. It's something about that.
• 18:42
  Like I said, either it's the womanhood or something about it
• 18:44
  that just connects us. So there's a different.
• 18:47
  That's different. Sorry, there's a different
• 18:49
  camaraderie between the female clients.
• 18:53
  With you, you feel like a different connection.
• 18:55
  Maybe I'm still figuring it out. I'm still outside what it is.
• 18:59
  Well, I think one of the things is, is that I think when we just
• 19:04
  do gender, there's a connectivity to that because of
• 19:07
  shared experience or things like that or understanding that a lot
• 19:14
  of them are in the same place of trying to ascend in a sometimes
• 19:18
  still in a male dominant arena. So there's a lot of those pieces
• 19:23
  I think that binds them together a little bit more.
• 19:26
  And do you think that they look at you the same way of if you
• 19:30
  went and said I've never played a sport, do you think they'd
• 19:33
  have the same reaction, say, males?
• 19:36
  I don't have an answer to that. I think it would be a hard one
• 19:40
  to answer because you know, but I think.
• 19:43
  Well, do you usually get that same question from females of
• 19:46
  what sport do you play? Is that is that one of their
• 19:49
  first questions as well? Yeah, I like, I think all
• 19:52
  clients at some point like Ask you.
• 19:54
  And I love that they asked me, because they're interested in
• 19:56
  getting to know me too. Right.
• 19:58
  And it's more often than not something that I just gave as
• 20:00
  part of my introduction. Now that you've.
• 20:04
  Got it up. I'm going to be so mindful of
• 20:08
  listening to their questions and what else?
• 20:11
  Well, it's interesting. I think when you listen to the
• 20:14
  question and then what's the dialogue that follows, Do you
• 20:18
  see what I mean? So with the male athletes, it's
• 20:22
  when you say, oh, well, yeah, I went to state, oh, you went to
• 20:24
  state. How did you, You know, they
• 20:25
  might go to how did you do in this sport or whatever?
• 20:29
  Maybe the female will ask you, did you have a fun time?
• 20:32
  So the questions are there's just slight differences in those
• 20:36
  as as to what And and I think that's also when you talk about
• 20:39
  that connection to women, it might be the followup
• 20:43
  conversation after the same question that they have.
• 20:47
  Does that kind of make sense? Yeah.
• 20:49
  Like I said, it's like something that that I've paid too much
• 20:52
  attention to. And from what I do recollect, I
• 20:56
  feel like I've gotten like mix amount of questions or
• 21:00
  excitement or curiosity about my sport or like what I played.
• 21:07
  I think I meant further than that.
• 21:09
  Sometimes women will expand on things and they will go they
• 21:13
  might. So I wonder if that's what
• 21:16
  creates that kind of feel that you feel that kind of womanhood
• 21:20
  connection is the followup conversations.
• 21:24
  Do you see what I mean? Does one?
• 21:27
  Say, stay on the same topic, group of how fast did you run,
• 21:31
  how high did you jump, blah blah, blah, blah blah blah.
• 21:34
  Where the other one maybe you might have said, you know, I
• 21:37
  developed all these great friendships to dance or are you
• 21:39
  still friends with them, You know what I mean?
• 21:42
  I don't know what it is, but I think sometimes there is that
• 21:44
  component to it. It's the followup conversations
• 21:48
  that kind of determines that bonding in a different way or
• 21:53
  whatever it is. Now let me ask you this.
• 21:56
  Brothers and sisters, do you have both or I have an older
• 22:00
  couple? Is he a lot older than you?
• 22:03
  Not, I think. Like an average number of.
• 22:07
  Three like 5. Okay.
• 22:10
  Well, average is about three. Yeah, I think average.
• 22:14
  Is very different. I think here in the I think it's
• 22:19
  three, which is really an interesting thing, but I don't
• 22:21
  know a little three years ago, I don't know that.
• 22:26
  I I I I retain weird stuff anyway.
• 22:30
  Does he play sports as well? He does kickboxing OKO.
• 22:34
  K Did he do competitive sport in school?
• 22:38
  No. So that's why Dad was looking at
• 22:40
  you. You're my last hope.
• 22:43
  A little bit, but yeah, my brother, although, like, he's a
• 22:47
  big part of how I got to sport too.
• 22:49
  Like he used to watch a lot of sports and also the younger one,
• 22:53
  so I used to just sit with him and watch.
• 22:55
  So I think watching sports is on, like my brother also like I
• 23:00
  gave him a lot of credit for that and getting me into a lot
• 23:03
  of sports, like watch this with me, watch this with me.
• 23:06
  And I used to sit with him and watch them and yeah, and he got
• 23:10
  into sport a little bit later. But like, yeah, like when I was
• 23:15
  thinking sport, he was and if that makes sense.
• 23:17
  And so now he does boxing. Kickboxing.
• 23:21
  Yeah, boxing. You never wanted to join him in
• 23:22
  that. I actually did kickboxing for
• 23:26
  the nifty bit. What happened?
• 23:28
  It was a little bit before COVID and then the classes stopped,
• 23:31
  so. Were you enjoying it?
• 23:34
  Were you enjoying it? Will I rejoin it?
• 23:36
  Maybe at some point, Yeah. Did you?
• 23:38
  Enjoy. Did you enjoy doing it?
• 23:40
  Yeah. I actually also grew up playing
• 23:43
  Taekwondo like it was one of my first every day for I think
• 23:48
  around like four to five years. Like every day.
• 23:52
  I had like my Taekwondo classes. Still, I had like a little bit
• 23:56
  of martial arts in me when I don't kickboxing it.
• 23:59
  OK, OK. Do you feel like being in
• 24:02
  martial arts, Do you feel like that helped you would dance
• 24:05
  there, or that dance helped you with martial arts?
• 24:07
  Because the movements, some of those movements are very
• 24:09
  controlled, as in dance and the extensions and all of those
• 24:13
  things. Did you think it complimented
• 24:15
  each other, helped each other? When you were in dance, did you
• 24:18
  want to kick your partner? I don't know.
• 24:21
  I think I'm all because I'm always done and been an athlete
• 24:26
  together. I've never known if like 1
• 24:28
  affects the other. But I do think it helps with
• 24:32
  like things like flexibility and movement, like you said, and
• 24:37
  stamina and everything else, I think because both are
• 24:41
  performing like physically performances, right?
• 24:45
  So I do think, I've never known, like I've never observed a call,
• 24:48
  I've never actively observed A cause or effect on the two
• 24:52
  because they've always going this good in my life, right?
• 24:55
  Well, now that you say it, I do think maybe if that's the felt
• 24:58
  well. Almost more like they would
• 25:00
  complement each other, you know, That's a good way to put that.
• 25:04
  Not so much the cause and effect, but the complementing of
• 25:07
  each other of that fluidity of the motion and stuff like that.
• 25:12
  You know, you can see in both arenas.
• 25:15
  I mean, I don't know why I just came to my head because I was
• 25:17
  just started visualizing all this.
• 25:19
  I was visualizing their. Yeah, because it makes sense,
• 25:23
  because, you know, I have some of my clients who do Taekwondo,
• 25:27
  things like that, and they talk about, and then they'll also do
• 25:31
  dance. They learned that they can use
• 25:34
  it in both arenas, so to speak. Some of those skills are kind of
• 25:38
  interchangeable. Yeah, a lot of the psychological
• 25:42
  skills are interchangeable. In that way, explain that, Yeah,
• 25:47
  I think, yeah. Just things like the performance
• 25:50
  routines or mental routines that you do before a dance
• 25:54
  performance or you do before a game or a match.
• 25:57
  Developing that confidence, having motivation to do either
• 26:03
  dance or play a sport. If you're struggling with the
• 26:07
  performance anxiety, what do you do before you grow up to perform
• 26:11
  and what do you do before a match?
• 26:13
  In that case, I think psychological skills,
• 26:16
  definitely. I saw interchange when I was
• 26:19
  doing before and they helped, yeah.
• 26:22
  So let me ask you this, you know, when you were performing
• 26:25
  or when you were, you know, or in sports, did you use
• 26:28
  visualization? Because I know sometimes with my
• 26:31
  when I'm working with athletes, I'll talk with them about
• 26:34
  visualization, because sometimes they're they're like if they're
• 26:37
  doing the sport, they might visualize the wind, but they
• 26:39
  don't visualize how they got from, you know, the starting
• 26:43
  bell, so to speak. To the end, as an athlete, did
• 26:47
  you use visualization? Did you use that in the whole
• 26:51
  entire thing? And is that something you help
• 26:56
  your, the athletes you work with currently to do?
• 26:59
  Yeah, I'm so excited you asked me that question because I have
• 27:04
  like an exciting story. I think it's exciting.
• 27:07
  But okay, First to answer that question about when I was an
• 27:11
  athlete, I think use visualization.
• 27:13
  And it was one of those things that I didn't know that I was
• 27:15
  doing until now. When I look back and I was like,
• 27:19
  I did use visualization, I did use imagery and a lot of those
• 27:23
  things like back then, I didn't have a name to it.
• 27:25
  I just did it and I did. I used to like visualize my
• 27:28
  jumps. If I it was a new place that I
• 27:32
  was doing my jump at. I used to think about my
• 27:34
  surroundings. I used to think about the mad
• 27:37
  placement, how I would run up to it and make the jump, how I
• 27:41
  would come back from it if I wasn't able to make that jump.
• 27:44
  So I did use it. And even in dance like, just
• 27:48
  like imagining myself on a stage, what kind of stage was it
• 27:53
  like? Was it like, a little like
• 27:54
  Wobbly? How was that?
• 27:56
  What was the audience looking like?
• 27:58
  What would my dance look like? I did that and I just didn't
• 28:01
  know that I did that until now, when I came back to it and I'm
• 28:05
  like I did. Do that.
• 28:06
  And now I'll tell you why I'm excited for your question
• 28:09
  because so I skied for the first time.
• 28:12
  This year I went skiing for the first time and I went with
• 28:18
  someone that teaches skiing, so they were kind enough to like
• 28:22
  take me to the mountains with them and give me that like
• 28:24
  first. Class and I think I did really
• 28:28
  well and they thought that I did really.
• 28:31
  Well, and they were like, you're surprisingly good for the first
• 28:35
  time. And I was like, really like
• 28:38
  you're. Just kidding.
• 28:40
  Like, what are you saying? And he was like, yeah, you were
• 28:42
  like really good. Like, I actually fell once.
• 28:46
  And the other two times that I fell was actually when I was
• 28:49
  just standing. I wasn't doing.
• 28:51
  Anything I was, I was literally definitely spend I fell once
• 28:58
  when I was going down like a big slope of the mountain.
• 29:00
  But I'll tell you why even that is interesting is have always
• 29:05
  visualized myself being. I've worked with it when one of
• 29:10
  the things like I've thought about me skiing, like just, you
• 29:13
  know, when I'm a day dreamer, like I'm always my head is up in
• 29:16
  the clouds all the time. And yeah, I've thought about
• 29:22
  myself and it's. Been more after I moved to
• 29:25
  Colorado, like how would I look if I was skiing?
• 29:28
  And I've seen videos, obviously. Of skateboarders of yours that I
• 29:33
  share with my athletes all the time.
• 29:34
  So I've seen those videos of people skiing and I always had
• 29:39
  like an image in my head of how I would see and that was the
• 29:44
  visualization part of it that I think definitely helped me when
• 29:48
  I was learning how to ski. And another thing that did help
• 29:53
  is balance. So because I can like ice skate
• 29:58
  a little bit I think that helps and just having like that
• 30:01
  control of your body and that balance that I I would think
• 30:04
  like dance gave me. All those things really helped
• 30:07
  me when I was skiing and the visualization I think helped so
• 30:11
  much. And the thing one thing that the
• 30:15
  moment I fell, it happened because I was getting too much
• 30:19
  in my head and I was thinking too much about what I was doing.
• 30:23
  And this is something that I talk about with my clients is
• 30:27
  getting too much in your head. Like paralysis by analysis is
• 30:31
  the term that they use. So if you're analyzing every
• 30:34
  move too much and you don't allow that automatic to be off
• 30:38
  your movement and you get too much in your head, then
• 30:41
  something can go wrong. And that's exactly what happened
• 30:44
  to me is one thing that the person that was teaching me told
• 30:47
  me is the big mountain is the same as the small slope on the
• 30:52
  mountain. It's just a little longer.
• 30:54
  So just stay in the pheasant moment and do like one bend at a
• 30:59
  time. Just think one bend at a time.
• 31:01
  And that helped me until I realized that second.
• 31:06
  Oh my God, I'm doing this on a big mountain and I fell like.
• 31:11
  Well, I think that's some great advice because I know when we're
• 31:15
  bowling if I get too much in my head I foul that up bad and.
• 31:20
  I will tell you know it's so amazing because as I'm watching
• 31:23
  her approach to bowl. She can tell when I'm thinking
• 31:27
  too much. I know.
• 31:29
  My God, she's thinking too much. And that I'll tell her you were
• 31:32
  thinking too much. You know, one of the things I
• 31:35
  work with my clients on a lot is get out of your head.
• 31:40
  We analyze everything to death, whether you know it's my college
• 31:44
  students. What are you doing?
• 31:46
  You already know the information.
• 31:47
  But what if I do this? What if I'm sorry?
• 31:49
  Oh my God. Stop.
• 31:51
  But I will also see that when people are doing sporting
• 31:54
  events. And I'll tell her I love to
• 31:56
  watch sports, and we particularly watch MMA.
• 32:00
  But I will tell her, I will watch him and I'll say something
• 32:02
  shifted in him and you can see it.
• 32:06
  And it's that shift. It's once again we go to the
• 32:10
  thought instead of being in the moment, the fluidity of the
• 32:13
  moment as your scheme, that fluidity is taking you.
• 32:17
  But as soon as you start thinking there's no fluidity,
• 32:21
  then it's face first onto the snow.
• 32:26
  Yeah, it's definitely just like justing your ability.
• 32:30
  It's just just saying that you've been doing this for a
• 32:33
  while and you know what you're doing.
• 32:36
  So just do like just just that and just yourself to do that.
• 32:40
  Even though I'd been doing this for two hours before whatever
• 32:43
  I've been. But that being I, like I say
• 32:47
  that actually fully, fully bought into what I do.
• 32:51
  I I was like, this works and what I do works and I was like,
• 32:55
  it's worth it. But once I did and I realized
• 33:19
  how much I missed it. My degree is worth it.
• 32:57
  All the money I spent and it was worth it.
• 32:59
  And it was such. I still think about it like it
• 33:03
  was such an exciting day for me. Time for me to put in the
• 33:08
  practice what I do because I did not learn a new spot after that.
• 33:13
  I didn't make a lot of time to play around sport the last two.
• 33:20
  And now I was able to apply all these psychological skills,
• 33:27
  mental skills, into practice and to see that it worked.
• 33:31
  Or maybe I'm just being biased. I don't know, you know.
• 33:35
  What don't you find in working with your athletes?
• 33:38
  I think it's in working with anybody that they become their
• 33:41
  greatest obstacle. It's not often times their skill
• 33:45
  set. They may have the most amazing
• 33:47
  skill sets and they'll still fall short.
• 33:49
  They'll still fall short until they realize that it is their
• 33:54
  their, their thought process that's getting in the way of
• 33:57
  them truly excelling and and and showing that potential in it and
• 34:02
  and experiencing that potential. Just like with you on that
• 34:05
  slope, you were doing it, doing it, and then you became your
• 34:08
  obstacle, but then you put it away and then you realized, and
• 34:12
  I think that's kind of what a cool thing is too.
• 34:14
  When you do that, is then you're able to take that experience.
• 34:19
  Into your job. And then it's like, because
• 34:23
  oftentimes, well, yeah, how do you know that work or because
• 34:26
  people, what do you even do that or whatever?
• 34:29
  Or maybe that's just as a therapist.
• 34:30
  I don't know. But no, you'll have that.
• 34:33
  And then you can sit there and say, Oh my gosh, I have a story
• 34:35
  to tell you. But that must have been a great
• 34:37
  boost of confidence to know that, yeah?
• 34:41
  These skills do work and when you go back to your job that
• 34:44
  you're you are providing them with something that's really
• 34:47
  helpful. It's a tangible example that you
• 34:49
  can share. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:51
  It was definitely one of both. Like it's like Christy and it
• 34:55
  just excites me even more now. Like when you then has
• 34:59
  visualization with something that's like you've done your
• 35:01
  work, that's worked for you. I was like I.
• 35:04
  Have a story to tell you. And it's so exciting to me and I
• 35:07
  just, I love that it happened enough so that all of that
• 35:11
  happened and some skills work for people, some don't.
• 35:14
  Like I always say actually energy and visualization is
• 35:18
  something that a lot of my clients like.
• 35:21
  They say like it just doesn't work for me.
• 35:22
  Like I can't do it. And I say that's OK, let's find
• 35:26
  something else. And there's so much like they
• 35:28
  put that pressure on themselves. Like this is something that all
• 35:30
  my teammates are doing and all of them are able to do and I'm
• 35:33
  not able to do this. And and like, it's OK we can
• 35:37
  find something that works best for you because we're all
• 35:39
  different and we all have different strength.
• 35:42
  Let's find what your strength is, what you do best.
• 35:44
  Let's try that. So like I said, even though it
• 35:48
  works for me, it could be something that something else
• 35:51
  works some better common else. Yeah, do you know what I find is
• 35:55
  that when people, it's hard for people to use visualization and
• 36:00
  imagery. I think because.
• 36:02
  As a play therapist, when I would do family play therapy,
• 36:06
  how many adults didn't know how to play?
• 36:09
  In order to play, you have to imagine it's not what's
• 36:13
  literally happening in front of you.
• 36:15
  You know, kids create all these magnificent stories and they're
• 36:19
  living through that and so they use their imagination.
• 36:24
  What I've noticed is this, as people get into adulthood, often
• 36:28
  times they forget that piece. It's not that they lack it, it's
• 36:31
  just buried. And so it's like, it would be
• 36:34
  like telling those same people to go do imaginary play.
• 36:38
  No, I don't do that. You lose the ability to pretend
• 36:44
  somehow, it seems like as as. People age it.
• 36:47
  It's not that they absolutely lose it, it's just that they
• 36:51
  need direction and finding it again sometimes.
• 36:54
  And then often times they're using that skill though in other
• 36:57
  arenas. And what I love is when I'm
• 37:00
  talking to athletes who play video games and they can't use
• 37:03
  imagery. And I'll say when you're playing
• 37:05
  your video game, I said, what are you doing?
• 37:08
  I'm imagining what's going to happen next, or I'm thinking,
• 37:11
  what's going to happen next. I says, well, how do you know
• 37:14
  that? Well, I'm seeing it in my head,
• 37:15
  But what do you think that is? Once again, it's a skill set
• 37:20
  that we have that we use only in one arena and then we don't use
• 37:25
  it in other arenas. It's such a a fascinating thing,
• 37:28
  how our brain works and how it works for us and against us all
• 37:32
  at the same time, you know, makes you wonder why people
• 37:35
  don't know whether they're coming or going.
• 37:37
  You know, I always say this is that we literally don't know how
• 37:41
  fast. Like human minded.
• 37:43
  Oh my God, like we don't know what it's.
• 37:45
  Capable of We don't know what all is going on inside of it and
• 37:50
  what all. It's just how powerful it is and
• 37:52
  it's so fascinating to me all the time.
• 37:55
  I love the brain and and I tell people you know it's funny to
• 37:58
  me. When we look at our brain it's
• 37:59
  the most. No computer system on earth even
• 38:03
  comes close to what our brain does every second.
• 38:08
  You know, and I tell people and as smart as it is, it's also
• 38:11
  very dumb. It is.
• 38:14
  It can't do 2 opposites and understand.
• 38:17
  It's like I said, you can't sit there and be logically thinking
• 38:22
  with the really strong emotion. You think you're logically,
• 38:26
  you're being logical, but you're not, you know, and all these
• 38:28
  things I said. So as brilliant as it is, it
• 38:30
  just shows that it's also fragile in a way.
• 38:34
  And that place where we get in the way of ourselves by
• 38:37
  overthinking or not having that ability to understand that our
• 38:43
  brain is retaining everything that we do, we just struggle to
• 38:47
  access it. You know, you say, I love
• 38:49
  studying, I love exams, I love this.
• 38:51
  It's probably because you already know how to access.
• 38:54
  Do you see what I mean? So you don't go into an exam
• 38:56
  thinking, Oh my God, I don't know the information in your
• 38:59
  mind. Just thinking, of course I know
• 39:01
  the information. I already read it.
• 39:03
  Do you see what I mean? Yeah, I panic so much before an
• 39:07
  exam. Like why not?
• 39:09
  You panic before an exam, like since I've been since I was a
• 39:13
  child, I've always like panicked a lot before every like test or
• 39:18
  exam. Like, I'm studying till the last
• 39:21
  minute and I'm revising again and again and again.
• 39:24
  There have been times that I've been ill before an exam, like
• 39:27
  right before, because I was so stressed about it and I never,
• 39:31
  like, believed completely that I knew everything.
• 39:34
  But I when I go into an exam and like, I see the question people,
• 39:38
  and then I gave it, that's when I'm like, OK, I like doing this
• 39:40
  and I like driving my exam and I when it's done and I feel good
• 39:44
  about it. And so it's something that
• 39:46
  actually came like much later in my life when I actually enjoyed.
• 39:50
  I started enjoying study a lot more at that point.
• 39:53
  But it was not obvious. And once again, you realized at
• 39:58
  some point your brain was getting in the way of the
• 40:01
  knowledge you already had. Kind of like when you were
• 40:03
  skiing, you'd watch probably so many videos.
• 40:06
  So in your head, you already knew the technique.
• 40:08
  The instructor just reinforced the technique.
• 40:10
  You already knew. Yeah, but then you got to that.
• 40:14
  You studied. You studied.
• 40:15
  You studied. And then when you fell is when
• 40:17
  you realized I got to study some more.
• 40:20
  You know, becomes that really becomes that mental piece of it.
• 40:24
  Yeah, for sure. So.
• 40:26
  Let's see how I see the next time.
• 40:28
  I'm so curious to see. You'll be like a professional.
• 40:35
  Then definitely not even. But I also had a really good
• 40:40
  instructor, like they taught me all the basics and so staying in
• 40:44
  the moment and. Hold actually hand like yeah it
• 40:48
  was it was quite. It makes a huge difference when
• 40:51
  you have a really good teacher too.
• 40:53
  So and how they explain things and that the people that you've
• 40:56
  worked with, I know you've mentioned that you have worked
• 40:58
  with teams. How often is it that you're
• 41:01
  working one-on-one versus with teams?
• 41:04
  Is it primarily that you have teams that you work with or how
• 41:07
  does that go? So throughout the season I would
• 41:10
  say it's record that we meet at least once a week and.
• 41:15
  If they want an extra session, let's say before an important
• 41:19
  game, then we do that maybe twice a week and then it depends
• 41:24
  on how the organization's structured.
• 41:26
  So then you offer whether they want to make you individually or
• 41:29
  not. I always keep that option open,
• 41:32
  like if you need to meet with me individually and just reach out
• 41:36
  or however you're comfortable and.
• 41:39
  Yeah, so if they do need individual services, then they
• 41:42
  let you know. Okay, and you can meet with them
• 41:45
  outside of that being said. Oh, okay.
• 41:49
  You know, I think it's interesting and, and I don't
• 41:52
  know if you've noticed this, but you probably have been in the
• 41:54
  thing, but how many now different organizations from
• 41:58
  every sport have the mental performance people involved with
• 42:03
  them and how many athletes? You're hearing more athletes not
• 42:07
  only talking about the mental performance piece, but also
• 42:09
  being more involved with their mental health period, going out
• 42:13
  and seeking the help because there's a lot of anxiety around
• 42:16
  playing the sport, especially when everybody wants you to win,
• 42:19
  right? You know and when you're doing
• 42:22
  that competitive sport it's it's so much different.
• 42:25
  But then when it's always competitive but I think when you
• 42:27
  put money in it then it becomes like there's an added
• 42:31
  expectation of you, but at the end of the day there's not.
• 42:34
  You're still paying the playing the same sport like the scheme
• 42:37
  start told you the same. He'll just, you know, a little
• 42:40
  increment. But as soon as you thought of
• 42:43
  the big hill, you know, I think that's like people who have
• 42:45
  these amazing skills and they start thinking about the money
• 42:50
  and the obligation, but it's still the same sport.
• 42:52
  Yeah. I think a big part of that is
• 42:55
  watching the motivates that that athlete like, Is it the money
• 42:59
  that motivates them and at the same time acts as an added
• 43:04
  threshold that I'm getting paid so much money I need to play
• 43:07
  just a goal or letting? I guess like the money to find
• 43:12
  their skill set or that pressure.
• 43:15
  That I have actually don't. I'm repeating myself but all
• 43:19
  that and or if it's something that's internal, like I'm
• 43:22
  playing this sport because I just love being in this room
• 43:26
  with all these people and playing with them.
• 43:29
  Like I think motivation, whether it's like comes from within them
• 43:32
  or the sources outside of them, is that it's a big, big factor
• 43:36
  of what drives them and at the same time what comes in the way
• 43:39
  of. Network problems.
• 43:41
  Right. You know, it's really cool.
• 43:43
  Hopefully you know people who listen to our podcast so now
• 43:46
  know about a new it's because it's an up and coming field and
• 43:50
  if you like sports, but maybe you don't play sports or you
• 43:55
  don't play them competitively or whatever, but she still want to
• 43:57
  be an actively yet an active part of sports.
• 43:59
  You can now do this. This field is like I said it's
• 44:02
  an up and coming field. You know, sports psychology is
• 44:06
  just on the rise and it's something that it's kind of a
• 44:09
  neat thing that we're actually now looking at the whole athlete
• 44:13
  versus just how fast they can run or throw or whatever it is
• 44:17
  that they're doing. We're looking at the whole
• 44:19
  person now. And I think in doing that we
• 44:22
  will increase the longevity of athletes and we will also
• 44:27
  increase when the sport ends. Then being okay so wonderful
• 44:33
  that you're doing this, you know, we wish you the best of
• 44:36
  luck with it, not only in the job that you're doing, but your
• 44:39
  next time on the ski slope and next time you're on the ski
• 44:42
  slope, you can sit there and say no, I will be in the moment.
• 44:45
  Yes. Yeah.
• 44:47
  Thank you. Thank you Sharon and Christy for
• 44:50
  having me on this podcast. I appreciate it very much.
• 44:52
  I enjoyed. Talking to you all about this
• 44:55
  and completely nodding out on something I really love doing.
• 44:59
  Awesome. Well, it's always great when we
• 45:01
  get people on who love what they do, because that's one of the
• 45:04
  things we talk about. If you're gonna do something,
• 45:07
  have a passion for it. Love what you do so it doesn't
• 45:10
  feel like that job you're going to and you just have this
• 45:14
  different energy about you when you do it.
• 45:16
  And we can definitely feel that energy when we talk about this.
• 45:20
  And it's always okay to nerd out with this because we love it.
• 45:25
  So thank you everyone for joining us.
• 45:28
  We will be back next week. We hope you have a fantastic
• 45:31
  week. Talk to you later.
• 45:33
  Bye. Bye.