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How the College Sports Crisis Could Cost Athletes Everything · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And that's the reason that I always like college athletics
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: more than the NFL is because you had the opportunity
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to develop young people so and I want their quality
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: of life to be good. I think, as I said before,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: name image of likeness is a great opportunity for them
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: to create a brand for themselves. I'm not against that
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: at all, but to come up with some kind of
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a system that still can help the development of young
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: people I think is paramount to the future of college athletics.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: If you're listening to the forty seven Morning Update with
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Ben ferguson good.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Saturday morning, it's so nice to have you with us
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: on the forty seven Morning Update, and we've got a
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  Speaker 3: very special show for you. Saving college sports, Well, it
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: may be closer to death than you realize, all because
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: of the massive amounts of money that are pouring into
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: football with nil deals. The problem is other sports, Olympic sports,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: are being left behind, and if there isn't a change soon,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: you may see countless sports completely disappear from universities. And
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: that means count Let's do it in athletes that no
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: longer get the scholarships they need to be able to
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: attend a university. Well, the good news is this, there
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: is some fixes, and it's bipartisan, and the President of
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: the United States of America is behind it as well.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: It's the forty seven Morning Update and it starts right now.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Story number one.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: There aren't many issues in Washington these days that can
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: bring Republicans and Democrats together, but one of them may
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: be the future of saving college athletics.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: And frankly, it's about time.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: For years, we've watched the nil air spiral further and
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: further out of control. And this is coming from a
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: former college athlete. The transfer portal has become free agency.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Coaches are struggling to build teams and other coaches can
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: just bail for bigger paydays even when they're headed to
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: the national championships. Rivalries are disappearing, Athletes are bouncing from
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: school to school, chasing the next big paycheck, and many
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: athletic directors are warning that women's sports, Olympic sports, and
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: smaller programs like tennis and golf, well they could be
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: on the chopping block if something doesn't change fast. Now,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: for the first time, here's the good news. There actually
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: appears to be a serious bipartisan effort to Restore Some
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Order to Protect College Sports act that's been led by
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Maria Cantwell is now gaining
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: momentum in Washington, and today it got a major boost
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: from President Donald Trump himself. The legislation would create national
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: NIL standards, bring stability to transfers and eligibility rules, and yes,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: there's even the Lane Kiffen rule. After he screwed the
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: University of Mississippi aka MI alma mater ole Miss as
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: we headed to a national championship run. This is exactly
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: why the bill is definitely needed. It gives college sports
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: a much needed framework to prevent complete chaos and a
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  Speaker 3: total collapse of so many sports that aren't quote revenue making.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: President Trump made it clear that he believes Congress must
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: act his endorsement of the legislation, he called it a
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: strong foundation to not only save college sports, but he
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: argued that executive action alone are not enough. He said
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: that after meeting with university leaders, coaches, and athletic officials,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: it became clear that a legislative solution is needed to
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: preserve the future of college athletics. And this isn't a
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: new issue for President Trump either. Earlier this year, he
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: warned that college sports could be lost forever without major
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: reforms and described the current environment as an out of
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: control financial arms race that threatened scholarships, competitive balance, and
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: opportunities for so many future athletes. The reality is simple,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: nil isn't going away. And by the way, as a
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: former college athlete, I think college athletes should be able
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: to make money. Athletes deserved the opportunity to profit from
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: their name, their image, and their likeness. But what we've
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: created is also well unsustainable. College football wasn't supposed to
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: become the NFL free agency with dorm rooms, and coaches
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: were supposed to actually coach their team to the end
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: of the season, not leave them behind like Lane Kiffin did.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: This may be one of the rare moments where Republicans, Democrats, coaches,
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  Speaker 3: athletic directors, and even the White House all agree on something.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: If we don't fix college sports now, we may not
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: recognize it in five years from today, Which brings me
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: to the conversation that Center Cruz and I were able
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: to have about this legislation. It's an incredibly important bill,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: and I want you to hear the framework behind.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: It and how it actually works. Take a listen to
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: our conversation.
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  Speaker 5: Well, this week I shared a hearing on college sports
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: and saving college sports. And we've talked before on Verdict
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: about how college sports is in crisis right now.
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  Speaker 4: It is chaos.
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  Speaker 5: You've got an out of control transfer portal with athletes
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: trans foring three, four, five times. You've got people playing
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: until they're twenty.
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  Speaker 4: Six, twenty seven, twenty eight years old.
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  Speaker 5: You've got people with six seven years of playing time.
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  Speaker 5: You have virtually every athletics program in the country losing
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: money and losing millions or even tens of millions of dollars.
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  Speaker 5: Schools are going broke. They're canceling programs every week. You're
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: seeing women's sports getting canceled. You're seeing Olympic sports getting canceled.
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: You're seeing your favorite tennis getting canceled. That happened at
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: Arkansas just a few weeks ago. And it is if
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: we don't act, we are going to see much of
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: college sports decimated and destroyed. And so last week I
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: introduced bipartisan legislation with Maria Cantwell. Maria Cantwell's a Democrat
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: from Washington State. She is the ranking member, the senior
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: Democrat on the Senate Commerce Committee. I'm the chairman of
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: the Senate Commerce Committee. This week, we had a big
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: hearing and we heard testimony from leaders in college athletics
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: about the urgency of of solving the crisis now. One
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: of our witnesses was Coach Nick Saban, the legendary coach
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: of Alabama, and Coach Saban's testimony was incredibly powerful and
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: give a listen to a little bit of Coach Nick
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: Saban on why Congress needs to pass or protect College
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: Sports Act.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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• 8:12
  Speaker 3: to two Patriot. All right, let's play for you. Nick Saban.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Part of what he had to say in front of
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: your committee hearing it truly was impressive to hear him
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: talk about sports, especially in front of Congress.
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  Speaker 4: Take a listen, Coobol. Let me give you the history.
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  Speaker 1: My first year, we had collective at Alabama two point
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: seven million, Next year seven million, next year ten million.
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  Speaker 1: I'll retire next year of seventeen million, next year twenty
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: four million. Now you have schools that have close to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: forty million dollar rosters. So if we continue to do that,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: we're gonna lose Olympic sports. We're gonna lose non revenue sports,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: We're gonna lose scholarships. And basically what's gonna happen is
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have football and basketball succeed, and we'll have
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: club sports for everything else.
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  Speaker 3: He's not wrong, by the way, Center, I was in
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  Speaker 3: one of those non money making sports tennis.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of friends that you that you get to
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: know that are in those Olympic sports, for example, that
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: would all disappear. And when you think about having a
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: college roster at eighty million, if you're a student athlete,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: that in theory sounds great, but that's only in two sports. Really,
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  Speaker 3: the majority of that eighty you know you're talking about Alabama,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's not that much in basketball, I promise
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  Speaker 3: you at Alabama. So unless you pick football, you're left behind.
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  Speaker 3: And that's the reason why you're taking this action now
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: and why Saban was saying what he was saying at
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  Speaker 3: the time.
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  Speaker 5: Well, and that there's only a handful of powerhouses that
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  Speaker 5: generate and can dominate football, and so what if we
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: don't act. I think within five years we will see
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  Speaker 5: thirty to fifty colleges that that have a football program
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  Speaker 5: and they'll basically be an NFL and the rest of
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  Speaker 5: the schools that their programs will be obliterated. And there
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: are a lot of reasons that's tragic. One is just
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: sports brings us together. Sports is so much fun. Look,
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: we're divided on so many issues today. We scream at
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: each other where we're like it really is hard to
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: find common ground, and yet you can go cheer on
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  Speaker 5: your alma mater and you can be there with people
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  Speaker 5: of different parties, people of different races, people have different
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: religions and you're all standing together. That's really important. Every
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  Speaker 5: bit as critical as that is. College sports is an
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  Speaker 5: amazing avenue for education for millions of young men and women.
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: And until I really started diving in to this topic
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: and working to save college sports, I hadn't really focused
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: on how college athletics is something that is unique in
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: the United States. No other country has anything remotely resembling
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: what we have here with college sports. There are today
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: more than a half million college athletes right now. Every year.
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: Athletics enables kids, many kids from low income homes, many
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: minority kids, who otherwise might not have had a chance
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: to go to college. It enables them to go to college,
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: to study, to get a degree, to learn skills, to
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: learn hard work and discipline and teamwork and sportsmanship.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: Accountability just showing up.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I can't tell you how much I learned from just
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: the accountability, which, by the way, it made me a
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: better person. It made me better in business, It made
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: me better in my job that I did afterwards. There
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: are so many young men when I was at Old
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Miss that said, they literally believe they would either have
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: been dead, they would have been in a gang if
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: it wasn't for sports keeping them out of trouble in
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: high school. And then they said, if it wasn't for
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: college and getting that college education, they would have immediately
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: been into bad stuff on the streets. They said that
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: sports actually saved their life, and not only say their life.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: A lot of them they were the first member of
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: their family to ever go to college, and they went
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: because they were an incredible athlete. It gave them the opportunity,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: it gave them a free education, it seemed unattainable, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: it completely changed their families trajectory in life. I think
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  Speaker 3: that's one of the most important things about college sports
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  Speaker 3: that people don't talk about.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Now.
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  Speaker 5: That is exactly right, and the status quo is unsustainable.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: If Congress doesn't act, we will end up with hundreds
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  Speaker 5: of thousands of those college athletic positions going away, and
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: those kids, many of them, having no chance to go
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: to school, to go to college to get those skills,
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: those life skills that set them up for success. And
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: look the way I approach this, I didn't worry too
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: much about about the top one percent. I didn't worry
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: about the Michael Jordan's or Arch mannings. I worried about
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: the ninety nine percent of college athletes who are never
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: going to play pro ball, but it's giving them opportunity.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: I had a ton of people Centater that were calling me.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I had friends and people I've known the past come
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: out that would work because they knew how important this
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: bill was, They knew how important it was to you
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: asking me questions.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: There was a lot of people saying they're just not
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: gonna be able.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: To get this done. There's no way you'll get by
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: parsonship here. That seems to not be true. And they said, well,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: there's no way even though he'll be able to get
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: the White House behind it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: That also doesn't seem to be true either.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: There is a lot of growing bipartisan support here to
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: get this thing done.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: Well, there is, and I worked for months, Rick Cantwell
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: and I negotiated. We sat in the conference room six
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: eight hours a day negotiating provision by provision by provision.
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  Speaker 5: We introduced it with Cantwell and myself a Democrat and Republican,
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: and also with Eric Schmidt, a Republican from Missouri, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Chris Coon's a Democrat from Delaware. So we had two Democrats,
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: two Republicans on the bill, and we've seen phenomenal support
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: for it. So the ACC has come out emphatically in
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: support of it, The Big Twelve has come out emphatically
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: and support of it. Condoleeza Rice at Stanford has come
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: out emphatically in support of it. At the hearing, Pete Bavaqua,
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: the athletic director at Notre Dame, testified strongly in support
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: of it. Gordon Gee testified at the hearing, former president
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: of West Virginia University also Vanderbilt, has been a president
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: of actually five universities. He testified that this is a
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: crisis and this bill is the only hope to save
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: college sports. And we've had already, We've had over one
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: hundred and thirty signatures from leaders at more than sixty
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: five universities come out in support of the bill. And importantly,
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: this week, President Donald J. Trump came out strongly in
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: support of the bill. He's he sent a truth social
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: that I want to read to you. Here's what he said.
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: College sports, a great American institution that produces our many athletes, leaders,
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: and Olympic dominance is a total mess, and everyone is
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: saying that it must be fixed. After uninny lawsuits and
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: crazed rulings, there are virtually no limits anymore, and soon
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: most colleges won't have sports because each and every one
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: of them will be bankrupt, never to be heard from again.
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: Women's sports and the Olympics itself are in the most
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: danger from this catastrophic situation. College sports are turning into
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: pro sports, except with absolutely no rules, a result no
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: one wants. Presidents, conference commissioners, student athletes, coaches, and athletic
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: directors all complained to me that it has become a
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: disaster after years of no action, and that schools were
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They compared
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: it to a freight train that can't be stopped. That
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: is why a few months ago I convened a roundtable,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: bringing together were a world class team as some of
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: the best sports executives, student athletes, and political leaders in
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: our country. The goal was to find a bipartisan solution
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: to fix the problem. Based on these meetings and the
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: expertise of the leading authorities, I signed an executive order,
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: but I always said that the best solution was to
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: get a bipartisan act through Congress to my desk in
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: order to save a long and embarrassing road through hell
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: for these institutions. I'd like to thank Senators Ted Cruz,
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: Eric Schmidt, Maria Cantwell, and Chris Coons, among others, for
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: introducing the Protect College Sports Act. This law resolves many
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: of the most urgent issues challenging our universities and student athletes,
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: stops the chaos, and most importantly, it may be the
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: last chance to save college sports and colleges themselves before
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: it's too late. The House has worked long and hard
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: on this issue as well, and I'm very grateful to
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: Speaker Mike Johnson and Leader Steve Scalise for their work
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: to fix this very major problem. I urge the House
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: and Senate to come together to pass a final bipartisan
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: law that I can sign this summer that reflects the
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: views and input of both chambers and in all caps,
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: we have to save college sports. Thank you for your
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: attention to this matter. President Donald J. Trump. The support
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: we're seeing is really significant, and I think we're going
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: to see I hope and believe, a big bipartisan vote
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: in the Senate behind this bill.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: What's the timeline now and how much which is they're
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: going to be people pushing since now this has become so,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: you know, such a big discussion to try to change
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: things the last minute. Is that going to be a
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: problem and what does that look like?
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: Oh, look, that is going on and there are a
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: handful of people that are criticizing and throwing rocks, But
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you most people are shocked that we could
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: actually find a bipartisan compromise. And and and listen, one
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: of the natures of that. That means that that I
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: had to give quite a bit and and the Democrats
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: had to give quite a bit to find a common
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: ground because we can't pass this bill unless you get
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: at least sixty votes in the Senate. That means you
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: need at least seven Democrats. There are only fifty three Republicans.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: And my objective, frankly, is to get a lot more
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: than sixty votes. I'd like to see a big bipartisan
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: vote come out of the Senate. The House has tried
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: several times to fix this problem, and unfortunately, every time
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: they try to take up a bill, it's failed in
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: the House. And and so I think the Senate has
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: got to step in because the clock is ticking. And
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: I will say that there's a real risk also of
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: the biggest players coming together to form a super league,
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: and I think that would be disastrous for everybody else
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: and not good for fans. Let's take my home state
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: of Texas. Look, my home state of Texas if Congress
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: does nothing in three to five years. I am certain
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: that the University of Texas will survive, and I'm certain
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: A and M will survive. They're so big, they have
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: such a big donor base and alumni base that they'll
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: survive no matter what happens. But it's not at all
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: clear that the other players in Texas survive. It's not
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: clear that TCU or SMU or University of Houston or Rice,
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: or Texas Tech or Baylor, all of the different programs
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: in Texas, they could go under in the status quote,
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: I think that would be a terrible outcome if we
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: lose historic programs all over Texas, not just football, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: when you lose football, football pays for all the other
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: So when you lose football, you end up losing the
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: entire array of sports. That would be tragic, and we
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: can't let it happen.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're absolutely right there.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: If people want to get behind this legislation is just
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: one of those where they talk to their senators and
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: their congressman.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Who do they need to contact quickly?
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: Look, the first order of business is your senator and
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: urging your senator. Whether your senator is a Republican or Democrat,
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: urging your senator get behind this bill, the Bipartisan Protect
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: College Sports Act. There's an urgency. I am hoping to
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: move quickly on this. I'd like to get a big
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: vote in the Senate. Once we get it out of
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: the Senate, then the next step will be the House.
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: But calling your senator, going on social media, speaking out
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: and saying that sports, college sports should be saved, that's
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: really valuable.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the forty seven Morning Update
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: with Ben Ferguson. Please make sure you hit subscribe wherever
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: you're listening to this podcast right now and for more
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: in depth news, also subscribe to the Ben Ferguson podcast
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: and we will see you back here on Monday morning.