Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E221: I Received a Life Sentence For A Murder I Didn’t Commit w/Judy Henderson | Lila Rose Show

Transcript

E221: I Received a Life Sentence For A Murder I Didn’t Commit w/Judy Henderson | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  I just want people to know that things can change in your life
• 0:03
  in the blink of an eye. I was a suburban mom, did
• 0:05
  everything that moms do with little girls.
• 0:08
  Can you share the events that transpired next?
• 0:11
  The gentleman came to our room, put a silencer on the table and
• 0:15
  said he was there to kill us. I'm going to die.
• 0:17
  My children are not going to have their mother.
• 0:19
  I'm never going to see them again.
• 0:21
  Tell us about how you ended up receiving a life in prison
• 0:24
  sentence. It felt like I was in a movie.
• 0:27
  It wasn't real. In those 35 years, did you ever
• 0:30
  any point give up hope? Lila, I know this sounds crazy.
• 0:32
  It sounded crazy to a lot of people.
• 0:37
  Wrongfully. Convicted of a.
• 0:38
  Crime she did not commit Judy Henderson faced the death
• 0:42
  penalty and life in prison it wasn't until 35 years in prison
• 0:46
  that she finally won the freedom that she deserved and her
• 0:50
  sentence was overturned. Today I sit down with Judy
• 0:53
  Henderson, who is the author of the new book When the Light
• 0:56
  Finds Us. She tells us the incredible
• 0:58
  story of her childhood, of her adulthood, of how she ended up
• 1:02
  being wrongfully convicted and how she not only survived
• 1:05
  prison, but how she overcame mothering her two young
• 1:09
  children. She entered prison when she was
• 1:10
  32 years old, had two young children, mothering her children
• 1:13
  from behind bars and advocating for the rights of those
• 1:16
  wrongfully convicted. Judy also shares about her
• 1:19
  relationship with God and how the power of faith and hope
• 1:22
  brought her through the darkest times.
• 1:24
  I hope you enjoy this episode. Also, don't forget to join
• 1:27
  rosereport.supercast.com for AD free episodes, behind the scenes
• 1:31
  access and other special exclusive content.
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  subscribed, then make sure that you hit that subscribe button.
• 1:45
  Judy Henderson, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:47
  Thank you. Thank you, Lila.
• 1:49
  It's an honor to have you here. Thank you so much for coming in.
• 1:52
  I finished your book, When the Light Finds Us.
• 1:55
  Beautiful cover here and tearjerker.
• 1:59
  I know, I'm sorry. Also incredibly inspiring how
• 2:05
  you persevered after over 35 years wrongfully imprisoned as a
• 2:10
  mother. I mean, I, I'm a young mother
• 2:13
  and I'm, we went into prison at 32.
• 2:15
  And just looking at reading this book and imagining what you went
• 2:18
  through, you shared, of course, in this book.
• 2:20
  It was mind blowing. So thank you for the courage.
• 2:24
  And we've been writing it and sharing it and just thank you
• 2:26
  for coming on the show. It's such an honor to have you.
• 2:28
  Oh it, it's great to be here. I've been so looking forward to
• 2:31
  this and the mission that you've done all your life at a young
• 2:35
  age and all the work that you've done to help so many.
• 2:38
  I am honored to be in your presence.
• 2:41
  I feeling is 100% mutual. So thank you Judy.
• 2:44
  Well, I'd love to 1st just for the for our audience listening.
• 2:47
  Tell us a little bit about yourself and why you wrote When
• 2:50
  the Light Finds Us. Like like you said that I have
• 2:54
  been incarcerated for over 35 years and I was wrongly
• 2:59
  convicted of a crime I did not commit.
• 3:02
  I was able to persevere, I was able to be resilient, I was able
• 3:08
  to be courageous. I was able to be brave only
• 3:10
  through the grace of God. And it didn't.
• 3:15
  My life has been up and down through the years with so many
• 3:19
  different things going on with from my early childhood.
• 3:25
  However, you know God was always present and it wasn't us that
• 3:30
  deserted Him, we or him deserting us.
• 3:34
  We deserted Him and not thinking that He could see us through the
• 3:38
  hard times. And this was an eye opener for a
• 3:43
  lot of my family members, for me, and hopefully for a lot of
• 3:47
  people that grab this book and read it to let them know that
• 3:51
  there is hope. That there is always.
• 3:55
  He is forever present in our lives and there's things that He
• 3:59
  can do for you that you can't even imagine.
• 4:01
  Doors open and doors close, but He always brings the people in
• 4:06
  your life that need to be there at the right time.
• 4:09
  There are probably there are a lot of events that led up to
• 4:13
  your wrongful conviction and it started in childhood really for
• 4:18
  you. Can you take us back to
• 4:20
  childhood and tell us a little bit about it?
• 4:22
  Sure, I was. I'm the oldest of eight
• 4:25
  children, so I was the one that had to do a lot of things to
• 4:30
  help my mother raise them. There was three of us born and
• 4:34
  then she waited five years to have five more.
• 4:37
  So there was little tots. Running around everywhere.
• 4:40
  But my mother was such a great woman.
• 4:44
  She was my mentor, she was my friend.
• 4:47
  She helped me to know how to be a good mother and how to be
• 4:52
  resilient. She was also a battered woman.
• 4:55
  It was like a a generational curse that some families go
• 5:00
  through and the and me as we know, comes in to kill, steal
• 5:04
  and destroy. But she stood on her faith, and
• 5:08
  even through her battering years, she would still go to
• 5:11
  church and take us kids. And my mother would speak to the
• 5:16
  minister about it, and he'd just tell her to pray about it
• 5:19
  because back in those days, people didn't get involved to
• 5:23
  end family matters. It was something that was done
• 5:25
  behind closed doors. Today, of course, you know, it's
• 5:30
  very well known about the battered women's syndrome, and
• 5:33
  we're able to help correct some of those curses that were placed
• 5:37
  on these families through high school.
• 5:39
  I wasn't allowed to date. It was a very strict religion
• 5:42
  that I was in and so I didn't get to be the teenager that
• 5:47
  other girls get to be. I never started dating until I
• 5:52
  met my husband that soon became my husband.
• 5:56
  I was 18 and was on my first date.
• 5:59
  And then I ended up we get, we got married and we had two
• 6:03
  children, Chip and Angel, and nine years apart.
• 6:08
  But I was very close to my children.
• 6:10
  I was a suburban mom, did everything that moms do with
• 6:14
  little girls with dance and ballet and gymnastics and
• 6:19
  sleeping, you know, sleeping sleepovers and slumber parties
• 6:24
  and all the neat stuff that a mom does with her kids.
• 6:30
  And then after 12 years of an abusive marriage, I ended up
• 6:35
  divorcing my ex-husband. And what led to me getting
• 6:46
  incarcerated was a very short span.
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  And I will take you through that short timeline because I just
• 6:56
  want people to know that things can change in your life in the
• 6:59
  blink of an eye. It doesn't take a long time for
• 7:03
  your life to just switch over to something that you never thought
• 7:06
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• 8:19
  I want to ask you going back briefly to your childhood and
• 8:24
  you talked about your mother and she was a a central figure in
• 8:26
  your book, somebody that just brought you so much consolation
• 8:29
  and inspiration for how to be a mother like you said.
• 8:32
  And she was so strong. You shared about how you were
• 8:35
  one of eight you experienced in the home and abusive father.
• 8:39
  Tragically, you mentioned your mother experienced battered
• 8:42
  woman syndrome. Did that, did those experiences
• 8:46
  you? Then you mentioned you you
• 8:47
  married your husband at 18. You had two children with him.
• 8:51
  Did can you speak to the experience of having experienced
• 8:55
  abuse as a child and how that impacted you when you were
• 8:59
  selecting the husband and and getting married at 18?
• 9:02
  Yes, of course. You know, like I said, whenever
• 9:06
  I was in high school, I wasn't a typical teenager that got to do
• 9:10
  a lot of the things that other teenage girls did.
• 9:12
  And my senior year I was sexually molested by our
• 9:17
  assistant pastor, which had a major impact on my life.
• 9:21
  It was my senior year and I did not graduate.
• 9:26
  It was close to the end of the the school year and I just, I
• 9:30
  couldn't emotionally finish. And so I was sent down to live
• 9:35
  with my aunt, and that kind of had a a major impact on my
• 9:39
  religion and my relationship with God.
• 9:44
  I wanted to blame him, you know, for this happening to me.
• 9:50
  And I think I held that for a long time and until I matured in
• 9:56
  my faith and understood it better that it wasn't him, it
• 10:01
  was the enemy working through somebody that was a man at the
• 10:04
  cloth. I ended up, like I said,
• 10:09
  marrying my ex-husband and he was the first man I ever dated.
• 10:15
  So he was an abuser, which I did not know at the time.
• 10:21
  I just thought that was normal because my mother lived through
• 10:25
  it for so many years and like 28 years.
• 10:29
  So I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to get out of
• 10:34
  it. I didn't know where to turn for
• 10:36
  help because it was just learned behavior.
• 10:38
  It was natural. But then whenever the abuse I
• 10:43
  thought was going to turn toward my children, my daughter, I knew
• 10:47
  there was something I had to do. You know, it gave me the courage
• 10:51
  to protect my children, to get out of that marriage.
• 10:55
  And so I did divorce him in June of that year.
• 10:59
  I think that was 8081. He still would not leave me
• 11:04
  alone. He would still come back to the
• 11:06
  house and tear up my clothes or RIP up my shoes and cut them up
• 11:10
  where I couldn't go to work. And so I attempted suicide in
• 11:15
  September and this is the timeline that I want to let the
• 11:19
  audience know how quickly your life can just spin out of
• 11:23
  control without you even watching the signs, watching the
• 11:28
  red flags, watching because God, I believe, gives us a path.
• 11:35
  And he, there's signs that he gives us along the way that we
• 11:40
  don't pay attention to because our life gets too crazy, too
• 11:43
  busy. And you know, it's like going on
• 11:46
  a trip, you watch Rd. signs to get where you want to go.
• 11:50
  But in our lives, people are so busy out here, they don't pay
• 11:54
  attention to those signs. Even to this day they don't.
• 11:57
  I've noticed because of what I went through, I do pay more
• 12:02
  attention. The woman I was back then is not
• 12:05
  the woman I am today, thank God. And so I attempted suicide and
• 12:11
  was in the psychiatric ward for about 30 days.
• 12:15
  And during that time my psychiatrist said that I needed
• 12:18
  to move out of that area and down where my family was.
• 12:22
  So that's what I did. We packed up all of my stuff I
• 12:26
  had. I got the house in the divorce,
• 12:32
  but I end up letting my ex-husband stay there because I
• 12:35
  did move out of town and it was, it was a new beginning.
• 12:43
  It was like, OK, I, I have a new start.
• 12:45
  I have a new chapter beginning in my life.
• 12:47
  I was excited about it, you know, and I ended up getting
• 12:54
  buying a business. It was on the ground floor of
• 12:57
  the tanning business. So it was just starting out
• 13:00
  where you had the tanning booths and I had a nice salon, spa and
• 13:06
  masseuse and masseur and all kinds of nice things going on in
• 13:10
  there with all kinds of lotions and everything you could
• 13:13
  imagine. And it was in a great location
• 13:17
  next to a big business building where there was lawyers and
• 13:20
  bankers and investors. So it was.
• 13:22
  Thriving. And that occurred in February.
• 13:26
  And so I was able to move into my own home with my children and
• 13:34
  we were doing great. My family was close by, so I was
• 13:39
  with them all the time. I had a sister that I didn't
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  I want to ask just one quick question.
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  I know we're going to get to the effectively the setup is what I
• 15:00
  would call it of what you experience.
• 15:02
  But one theme I saw, especially in the first half of the book
• 15:04
  was just a protectiveness that you have for kids.
• 15:08
  And that really resonated with me personally.
• 15:10
  I admit, I'm one of eight kids too, and I'm the oldest girl.
• 15:13
  So that was really, but you know, even scenes from your
• 15:16
  childhood where your dad was abusing your mom or even your
• 15:20
  siblings and you try to protect them physically with your body,
• 15:23
  the little bodies of your siblings.
• 15:24
  Fast forward to your daughter, Angel, your son Chip, and you
• 15:28
  know, your husband, you know, ex-husband being physically
• 15:31
  abusive and you trying to protect them and wanting to get
• 15:33
  them out of that place. When you were in this, you know,
• 15:37
  you had the courage to leave. You left.
• 15:38
  You were in this space now where you're rebuilding your life.
• 15:42
  It sounds like you were channeling that new
• 15:44
  protectiveness into let's build a build a business.
• 15:47
  Let's build a build a life together.
• 15:50
  What was that? Was that?
• 15:52
  Something conscious for you that I'm going to, you know, the,
• 15:55
  the, the pain that I experienced and the courage it took me to
• 15:58
  leave. I need to now go all in on this
• 16:00
  new life. What was driving you at that
• 16:01
  point? Yes, it was.
• 16:03
  I wanted the children to know that life that we just left is
• 16:07
  not the life of the future. You know, it's going to be
• 16:10
  wonderful, it's going to be loving, it's going to be
• 16:12
  peaceful. And so that's the environment
• 16:16
  that I wanted to create for them and it was an environment that
• 16:21
  was going all in the right direction.
• 16:26
  And then in April, I ended up meeting my Co defendant through
• 16:31
  mutual friends at a restaurant. And we, you know, became
• 16:37
  friends. I didn't know him very well
• 16:40
  until we ended up going to Kansas City together because he
• 16:43
  was a real estate broker and he had a convention to go to there.
• 16:48
  And whenever I got out of the psychiatric ward, I was supposed
• 16:53
  to be on medication, but I was very anti medication at that
• 16:57
  time, pills and all of that. It was just, it was like the
• 17:01
  year of drugs and in that era. And so I was very anti, you
• 17:09
  know, drugs and I did not take it, which now I look back and
• 17:13
  and I probably should have, but I ended up going to Kansas City
• 17:21
  with him because I was going to reconcile with my ex-husband.
• 17:25
  How crazy is that? You know, I still wasn't
• 17:28
  mentally where I needed to be. Meaning you wanted to get back
• 17:32
  together with him, right? You felt now a sense of
• 17:34
  stability. You had built a bit of a life
• 17:37
  and it felt safe. But you missed.
• 17:39
  You wanted a father for your children.
• 17:41
  You wanted a husband. I I.
• 17:43
  Felt this guilt. Because I felt like a son should
• 17:47
  have their father. I would hold my son out in the
• 17:50
  garage and just cry because I felt like, you know, I couldn't
• 17:59
  give him that. Father figure that he needed and
• 18:03
  I didn't know what to do. And so I thought, OK, I feel
• 18:08
  stable now. I feel stronger and we can maybe
• 18:12
  make this work. And so my Co defendant and I
• 18:17
  went up there as friends. You know, we stayed in the
• 18:19
  hotel. He had his room, I had my room.
• 18:22
  It was just a friendship thing at the time and while we were
• 18:26
  there. One of my friends that lived in
• 18:28
  that area came over and we had a drink or two that night, had
• 18:33
  some drinks at the bar and Greg was there.
• 18:38
  My Co defendant and which will be the only time I'll mention
• 18:41
  his name because I do not want to honor him in this interview
• 18:45
  or in the book. But we she started talking to me
• 18:52
  about, you know who that she was dating at the time and was
• 18:58
  telling me about the victim that lived in Springfield.
• 19:02
  And so I noticed that he did not.
• 19:06
  My Co defendant didn't pay any attention to the conversation
• 19:09
  until certain things were mentioned about jewelry and he
• 19:13
  wore a three carat diamond ring. And then I did pay.
• 19:17
  Attention to that, that in hindsight, not at the moment
• 19:21
  that that's when he entered the conversation and wanted to know
• 19:25
  more about, you know. Who are you talking about?
• 19:29
  Like it might have jogged something now that I look back
• 19:33
  and see it might have jogged something that was going on that
• 19:37
  I wasn't aware of. And so we came back to
• 19:43
  Springfield and on the way back, he wanted to know how my
• 19:47
  conversation went with my ex-husband.
• 19:49
  And I just broke. Down.
• 19:51
  It was very painful, very sad, because I realized it wasn't
• 19:55
  going to happen, you know, and my son would not have that
• 19:58
  father figure that I wanted for him.
• 20:02
  And so my code event was very empathetic, very kind, very warm
• 20:10
  and wanted me to talk to him about it.
• 20:13
  You know, I'm, I'm your friend. I want to help you with this.
• 20:16
  I want to help you get to the other side of this.
• 20:19
  And so I, and I wasn't used to that.
• 20:23
  I wasn't used to having somebody that I could just talk to about
• 20:26
  stuff like this. And especially if a male figure
• 20:29
  because I'd never dated. Anyone before and so we came
• 20:34
  back and we started dating and my friends that she was talking
• 20:41
  about the victim called wanting to know if I would come to
• 20:45
  Kansas City and you know go up there and be with my girlfriend
• 20:52
  and him and as you know go out to dinner and things were they.
• 20:55
  Dating your friend and the victim Yeah.
• 20:59
  So the the Co defendant, we won't say his name like you
• 21:01
  said, but that you are now dating right.
• 21:04
  He knew that your friend in Kansas City was dating this
• 21:10
  wealthy jeweler, correct? And he was very interested in
• 21:14
  that. Correct.
• 21:15
  Yes, thank you. That was a perfect way to put
• 21:18
  it. And whenever.
• 21:20
  He. Would the victim would call me
• 21:23
  when you go to lunch or something, You'll just get to
• 21:25
  know me because I was his girlfriend's friend.
• 21:30
  My Co defendant would be there. He wouldn't be jealous, he
• 21:33
  wouldn't be accusatory. He wouldn't accuse me of of
• 21:41
  wanting to be with this gentleman.
• 21:43
  And that was so different from what my ex-husband was.
• 21:46
  I would have already had several beatings by then.
• 21:49
  And just because he would imagine these things in his mind
• 21:55
  not ever having any cause to do so.
• 21:57
  But that was his mindset. And my Co defendant was very, I
• 22:04
  could tell him about it and it would be fine.
• 22:08
  So I never thought anything was out of the norm.
• 22:11
  I thought everything was great and things were going exactly
• 22:16
  how I had pictured my life to be, to find a, a man that loved
• 22:21
  me, loved my children and they got along great.
• 22:25
  He had two little boys that were about the same age as my son.
• 22:29
  He was in between the two of them and age wise.
• 22:33
  And so I thought, wow, you know, this is really going well.
• 22:39
  I, I like this. I like being able to be honest
• 22:43
  and say, oh, so and so-called today.
• 22:46
  Here's what he said. And just to be open about it
• 22:49
  and, and it just felt normal. I felt like my my dream of
• 22:56
  having that beautiful home with the picket fence around it and
• 23:00
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• 24:06
  today. And it just felt normal.
• 24:11
  I felt like my my dream of having that beautiful home with
• 24:15
  the picket fence around it and the swimming pool and everything
• 24:19
  was going to come to fruition. And then the 4th of July we went
• 24:24
  down to my aunt's house for a celebration and she and I were
• 24:29
  in the pool and my Co defendant was on in a lounge chair reading
• 24:35
  a book. And she said Judy, she said why,
• 24:40
  why is he reading a book on manipulation?
• 24:44
  And I said, well, he's a real estate broker, you know, he had
• 24:48
  been in the ministry. So I didn't think anything
• 24:50
  sinister was going on with him reading a book like that.
• 24:55
  I said, well, Aunt Monday, I said, I think he's just, you
• 24:58
  know, he has to read these kinds of books because he sells
• 25:01
  $1,000,000 properties to a lot of people, and he has to know
• 25:06
  how to get them to want to buy these properties.
• 25:10
  And she said, oh, OK, I had no idea.
• 25:14
  None. And I look back and see a red
• 25:17
  flag there, you know, and I see a red flag.
• 25:21
  On him pretending like he really cared and that he really love my
• 25:30
  children, not thinking that it was anything to do with anything
• 25:38
  that he was planning. But I did know.
• 25:42
  I mean, I look back now again and.
• 25:45
  See where? He.
• 25:47
  Would be talking to different people that I'd never been
• 25:50
  introduced to or didn't know anything about, and I wouldn't
• 25:56
  really talk about him. He'd introduced me to him a
• 25:58
  couple of times and he wanted me to set a time up where they
• 26:05
  could talk to this, the victim and then.
• 26:11
  Just a quick interruption here. How long was this time frame
• 26:14
  where he was kind of ingratiating himself in your
• 26:17
  life? He knew you were really
• 26:18
  vulnerable. You're just left an abusive
• 26:20
  marriage. You're trying to build a new
• 26:22
  life as a single mom and he's, you know, that shoulder to cry
• 26:25
  on literally, but he's like interested because you you seem
• 26:30
  to have these wealthy connections.
• 26:31
  This one in particular, he's really zeroed in on how long was
• 26:34
  this time frame. OK, so I moved to that area in
• 26:40
  October, got my business in February, met him in April and
• 26:47
  in June he decided to move into my house unbeknownst to me until
• 26:51
  I came home with my son from the nursery after I closed the salon
• 26:55
  down. He just showed up.
• 26:57
  He just showed up. He's known him three months.
• 26:59
  Yes, and, and I walked in the foyer and there were suitcases
• 27:03
  sitting there. And I just verbally said whose
• 27:06
  suitcases are these because I thought maybe my sister was.
• 27:09
  There for a friend or something and he come around the corner
• 27:13
  and he said those are mine. He said, I felt like it was time
• 27:17
  I move in with you and take care of you and the kids.
• 27:21
  And I said what? I said, I don't allow people to
• 27:24
  live in the house with me, with my children.
• 27:27
  And he said, Judy, he said, I just feel like this is, you
• 27:31
  know, what's going to be best for.
• 27:32
  You. And for us, and we want this
• 27:34
  family. And so there I said, OK, you
• 27:40
  know, not knowing what his sinister ideas or thoughts.
• 27:44
  Or plans were and. So he moved in with me and then
• 27:53
  in July he approached me with wanting to meet this gentleman.
• 27:59
  To three months later. Right.
• 28:00
  And then the murder happened. So for folks listening and you
• 28:06
  share of course this in the book, but he asks you to go meet
• 28:11
  the victim. Right.
• 28:14
  Can you share what you're comfortable sharing the events
• 28:17
  that transpired next? He didn't tell me any details
• 28:21
  until each step occurred, and he did it in such a manner that
• 28:28
  nobody saw him. You know, they only saw me
• 28:31
  driving my Thunderbird with my turn license.
• 28:33
  Plates. And and just for contacts too.
• 28:37
  This is a car that you'd worked really hard on buying in your
• 28:41
  new business. You have started this new life.
• 28:44
  And and I want to make sure people listening to understand
• 28:47
  like you, when you had left your ex-husband, you had left
• 28:51
  physical abuse. He had been beating you as your
• 28:53
  husband had, as your father had beat your mother and also beat
• 28:56
  you as a child. And this new guy that you didn't
• 28:59
  know was going to do this with you.
• 29:00
  He was very peaceful. He never laid his hand on you at
• 29:03
  least during this short period of time.
• 29:05
  So for you, this felt like this guy's great.
• 29:08
  Yeah, he's, he's not hurting me. Yeah.
• 29:11
  And he, we have great communication.
• 29:13
  He allows me to just be honest and say how I feel about things.
• 29:19
  So I had no idea. Even my mother, even my
• 29:22
  stepfather that was a minister, thought he was great.
• 29:25
  You know, this was going to be a brand new beginning for me.
• 29:30
  And then whenever the murder occurred that night, I was shot.
• 29:37
  We didn't know if the bullet had penetrated or if it just grazed
• 29:42
  me, but there was a lot of blood and I could tell I was in shock,
• 29:47
  not only from that, but just seeing what he was actually
• 29:50
  doing. And I'm sorry.
• 29:54
  Don't be sorry, Judy. What a what a horrible, horrible
• 29:58
  thing to experience. I'm so sorry.
• 30:08
  Oh, I'm so sorry. And then whenever that happened,
• 30:17
  he went to the person's house that was involved with him in
• 30:23
  this. An accomplice.
• 30:25
  Yes, and they had me sitting in the car, he said.
• 30:28
  We've got to find out what to do about the bullet.
• 30:31
  And you were bleeding at this point.
• 30:33
  So your Co defendant kills this victim.
• 30:37
  You're there. He every step of the way.
• 30:39
  He's asking you to drive him somewhere.
• 30:41
  You're like sure. And then he all of a sudden is
• 30:43
  murdering this poor, poor gentleman.
• 30:46
  God rest his soul. And then you get injured in the
• 30:50
  process. And then at this point, what is
• 30:52
  going through your mind? You just witnessed a murder,
• 30:54
  you're shot. You don't know what's going on.
• 30:56
  You're in this car. What do you?
• 30:58
  What is going through your mind? I I, it felt like I was in a
• 31:03
  movie. It wasn't real.
• 31:05
  You know, what I just saw did not happen.
• 31:08
  I was, I, I don't know. I, I knew I didn't know what to
• 31:18
  do with it. I didn't know what to do about
• 31:19
  it. I just knew that something had
• 31:26
  to happen. Something, you know, this had to
• 31:28
  stop. It had to stop.
• 31:30
  I don't know why it happened. I didn't know why he wanted to
• 31:34
  do what he did other than he wanted to rob the gentleman.
• 31:42
  And but that wasn't the end of the story because we ended up
• 31:48
  after we left this gentleman's house and told him what had
• 31:51
  happened. And my Co defendant wanted him
• 31:55
  to help him move the body and he said he wasn't going to.
• 31:58
  And he's advised my Co defendant to take me to Saint Louis to
• 32:04
  where there was a doctor that would not report such gunshot
• 32:09
  wounds. So we did go, but we did not
• 32:15
  know that his cost conspirator, I guess you would call him, he
• 32:22
  sent a hit man to kill us because we knew too much about
• 32:25
  what had happened, that he was involved also in it.
• 32:30
  And that's whenever the gentleman came to our room and
• 32:37
  put a silencer on the table and said he was there to kill us.
• 32:42
  And again, it was like this, this isn't happening.
• 32:46
  You know, this isn't my life. This isn't me.
• 32:49
  This isn't anything I've ever seen except on on the screen.
• 32:56
  And he saw me look at the window like and I was thinking I've got
• 33:02
  to get out of here. I don't know how to get out of
• 33:03
  here, but I've got to get out of here.
• 33:06
  And my Co defendant said if you kill us, he's just going to send
• 33:12
  somebody to kill you because you know too much.
• 33:15
  And that's whenever the Co defendant, he looked at me one
• 33:19
  time, not the Co defendant, but the gentleman that was sent to
• 33:22
  kill us, the hit man, he looked at me and he said, are you
• 33:29
  Tessie Hinds daughter? And I said yes.
• 33:36
  And he said today I'm not going to kill you.
• 33:40
  He said, because your mom has a picture of you in her store.
• 33:46
  And he said years ago when me and my family came to
• 33:49
  Springfield, we were homeless and she brought us food and
• 33:54
  clothing. And for that reason, I'm not
• 33:58
  going to kill you today. Wow.
• 34:01
  Yeah, so little did I know that what my mom had done and she
• 34:06
  wore a dress and heels and loved, loved people, always help
• 34:10
  people. I thought of her as Mother
• 34:13
  Teresa. You know, she didn't care where
• 34:16
  they were at under a bridge or on the railroad tracks.
• 34:19
  She would go by herself in her fancy Cadillac and go and help
• 34:24
  them. But little did I know that her
• 34:28
  kindness and her love for helping others would save my
• 34:34
  life. Only God had that plan.
• 34:38
  Only God. And so we ended up my Co
• 34:44
  defendant said we've got to go to to Kansas and we've got to go
• 34:49
  to Alaska. He said, because he's just going
• 34:51
  to send other people and they tried to him and the hitman
• 34:56
  talked about going back and killing him.
• 34:59
  And I said this has to stop. This can't continue.
• 35:01
  It's got to stop. Were you afraid that your Co
• 35:05
  defendant who had murdered the victim, that he would turn the
• 35:08
  gun on you? What was going through your
• 35:10
  mind? Because at this point he's
• 35:11
  dragging you everywhere. You're going to this hospital
• 35:14
  now you're going to go to Alaska.
• 35:16
  You're thinking, how do I get out of here?
• 35:18
  But you're not, you know, you're with him.
• 35:20
  So what was that dynamic like for you?
• 35:23
  It was very scary because I in my heart, I, I knew, I knew it
• 35:29
  whenever he said because you knew too much.
• 35:31
  That's why we're I'm was sent to kill you.
• 35:34
  I thought, this isn't going to stop.
• 35:37
  You know it's not going to stop. It's going to keep going.
• 35:40
  And I'm I'm going to, I'm going to die.
• 35:42
  My children are not going to have their mother.
• 35:44
  I'm never going to see them again.
• 35:45
  So you thought you were just on this wild goose chase to escape.
• 35:48
  People were trying to kill you that would eventually take your
• 35:51
  life. You kind of thought you were on
• 35:52
  it. It was like a DOOMS doomsday
• 35:54
  mission for you. There was no end.
• 35:57
  There was no end to it. And so he said we've got to go
• 36:03
  to Alaska. But before we do, I want to talk
• 36:05
  to an attorney. And so we did talk to an
• 36:09
  attorney who ended up representing both of us at our
• 36:12
  trial. But before we left for Alaska
• 36:18
  and this attorney knew, he suggested that we do go to
• 36:21
  Alaska. I told my Co defendant, I said I
• 36:26
  have to talk to my mother. I cannot leave without talking
• 36:29
  to my mother. And he said, OK, he said, but
• 36:33
  you're not going to be alone with her.
• 36:36
  I will let you call her. I will be there when you call
• 36:39
  her and you they can meet us. And so they did.
• 36:43
  They met met us at A at a truck stop.
• 36:47
  And I thought this. Is the only opportunity I'm
• 36:49
  going to have to see my mom and talk to her?
• 36:55
  So I took the chance and I said hey mom, I can't because they
• 36:59
  got in the car with us and I said I need to go to the
• 37:04
  restroom. Will you go with me?
• 37:06
  Because I thought I'm going to die anyways.
• 37:07
  You know, I've got to let my mom know and I've got to let my her
• 37:12
  know what to do with the kids. And there was just all these
• 37:16
  things going through my head, but I knew in my heart I
• 37:18
  wouldn't be back. And so we went to the restroom
• 37:23
  and I told her every detail of the crime.
• 37:27
  And she was just sobbing. And I said, mom, I need in a
• 37:39
  paper, I need to write a note to the kids.
• 37:51
  I'm sorry. And so she gave me a pen and
• 37:57
  paper and I wrote a note to him. And I said, please let my
• 38:01
  siblings know I love them. Please take care of my children.
• 38:07
  And I said I won't see you again.
• 38:10
  And so we walked out after I gained my composure and got in
• 38:16
  the car and they left. My mom was even in the end.
• 38:26
  She was so supportive and she didn't know what to do either.
• 38:31
  Did she say, well, I'll just call the cops and we'll rescue
• 38:33
  you? I mean, what what was going
• 38:35
  through her mind that you, if you can share?
• 38:38
  Because she knew that if there was these hit man and people
• 38:41
  involved, we had to think of the safety of the kids, you know, of
• 38:46
  my children, and not allow that to happen.
• 38:50
  She could not. I didn't want her to be involved
• 38:53
  in anything like that, but I wanted her to know if I don't
• 38:56
  come back here is why. And if it Gus gets to that
• 39:03
  point, then you have to do what you have to do.
• 39:07
  Did you fear that you'd run into some sort of a mafia group?
• 39:10
  I did of some kind. I did, and it's so strange that
• 39:14
  you say that because John Ashcroft was the attorney
• 39:19
  general of Missouri at the time and he ended up being the United
• 39:23
  States Attorney General. I.
• 39:25
  Believe it was for President Bush and they were doing a prime
• 39:31
  task force, mafia task force in Springfield at the time.
• 39:36
  And I had a friend that was very involved in keeping up on what
• 39:42
  was going with that task force. And all the names involved were
• 39:47
  names that was affiliated with some of the victims in this and
• 39:55
  those associated with this situation, which I've never
• 39:59
  gotten into that and that wasn't part of my life.
• 40:06
  So I felt no need to mention any of that in the book.
• 40:12
  We we do know that there was more people involved in all of
• 40:18
  this than what I had even thought about or anticipated in
• 40:22
  until she became part of my team to bring me home.
• 40:29
  And she was able to bring all of that to the governor's attention
• 40:33
  and in my clemency briefs. So we felt like this was
• 40:40
  probably some kind of crime ring.
• 40:45
  That you had fallen into. Right.
• 40:47
  So you end up in Alaska, you end up taken into custody.
• 40:52
  With. With your Co defendant you have
• 40:55
  the same lawyer that the Co defendant had selected that was
• 40:58
  representing both of you. Tell us about how you ended up
• 41:01
  receiving a life in prison sentence.
• 41:05
  Well, because we had the same Co defendant representing both of
• 41:09
  us, they could not. The same lawyer.
• 41:11
  Right. The same lawyer, I'm sorry,
• 41:14
  defending both of us. He could not adequately
• 41:17
  represent one without hurting the other one.
• 41:22
  So I went to trial first. He said then in order for me to
• 41:26
  have a defense, that I would have to come up with an alibi as
• 41:31
  to where I was at, that I was not at the scene, that I was
• 41:36
  shopping with my mother or something of that sort.
• 41:40
  And I said, I refuse to do that. I'm not going to put my hand on
• 41:44
  a Bible, on God's word and lie. And I said not only that, I am
• 41:51
  not going to get my mother involved.
• 41:53
  And I made my mother promise me, you know, whenever I came back.
• 41:57
  Do not ever say anything about you knowing anything about this.
• 42:01
  You know, not even to save me, Mom, you can't do that.
• 42:04
  You can't do that. I can't, I cannot bear the
• 42:07
  thought of them dragging you through this.
• 42:11
  And, and bless her heart, she she abided by what I asked.
• 42:15
  I said the kids need you. You know, they need you out here
• 42:18
  because I don't know how this is going to go.
• 42:22
  And so I would not allow her to take the stand.
• 42:27
  He didn't even know that I no one knew until I did this book
• 42:32
  that my mother knew anything. And bless her heart, she's no
• 42:35
  longer here, so no harm can ever come to her.
• 42:39
  Meaning, and what you're saying there for folks listening is
• 42:41
  that she could have testified on your behalf because you told her
• 42:46
  in that bathroom what happened right after it had happened and
• 42:49
  you told her what the truth of what had happened.
• 42:52
  And there was nobody there that would have been a key witness in
• 42:56
  your trial if she had been there and been able to say she was
• 42:59
  just dragged into this whole thing.
• 43:00
  She's innocent. But that would have put her in
• 43:03
  danger. It would have put my whole
• 43:05
  family in danger, even the my children.
• 43:09
  And I needed to protect them just like I'd always done.
• 43:18
  And I just felt like, and my mom told me later, she said, Judy,
• 43:23
  I'm sorry this happened to you. She said, out of all the kids,
• 43:27
  anybody, none of them could have endured what you've had to
• 43:30
  endure. And she said, God is going to
• 43:34
  get you out of this. He's going to help you be free.
• 43:37
  You just have to trust him. And she was right.
• 43:43
  She was right. So the Co defendant is this
• 43:47
  attorney that's representing you both.
• 43:49
  Did they say take a guilty plea to get less time?
• 43:53
  And what was the spin? Because in your view, this is
• 43:56
  something I was a witness to. You were a witness to the crime
• 43:59
  and you were, you could say, a second victim of the crime since
• 44:02
  you were shot as well, correct? But you, you know, did not
• 44:06
  commit this crime. So how did how did the trial
• 44:10
  occur with the ending ending ending with a guilty verdict?
• 44:13
  Were you ever able to take the stand and plead your innocence?
• 44:16
  What happened? No, I was not able to take the
• 44:19
  stand because I refused to come up with an alibi, wouldn't or
• 44:24
  testimony. So he said, therefore you cannot
• 44:28
  take the stand. Because taking the stand would
• 44:30
  have implicated your Co defendant and you had the same
• 44:32
  attorney and so that would have basically proven his guilt for
• 44:36
  you to witness the witness against him, correct?
• 44:38
  You just had to be. Silent.
• 44:40
  Yeah, I had to be silent and I had to just put it in the hands
• 44:43
  of the ones that were, you know, didn't that wanted me to go to
• 44:49
  prison. Did the Co defendant take the
• 44:51
  stand against you? No, he did not.
• 44:54
  That was the deal with the attorney.
• 44:56
  We're not going to testify about this and so hopefully we'll both
• 44:59
  get off free. Yeah, can take the stand against
• 45:02
  each other and which I didn't know at the time because I
• 45:05
  didn't know anything about the law that that was a serious
• 45:08
  constitutional issue and against my rights.
• 45:13
  And so today what happened then with one attorney representing 2
• 45:17
  Co defendants cannot happen today in the state of Missouri.
• 45:22
  And we even appealed it all the way up to the federal courts.
• 45:25
  And the three judge panel even asked the attorney general's
• 45:29
  office. That was the Rep, you know,
• 45:31
  representing the state. I do feel like there was some
• 45:34
  sandbagging going on in her case.
• 45:37
  And he said, yes, I do. Yet because it would have cost
• 45:44
  the state too much money to overturn my case, it would have
• 45:47
  affected so many other cases that had dual representation.
• 45:54
  They did not overturn my. Case because I'd have to retry
• 45:57
  them all. Right.
• 45:59
  So was your Co defendant also sentenced to life in prison?
• 46:03
  No. No.
• 46:05
  No. During the representation of my
• 46:12
  attorney that also represented him, unbeknownst to me behind
• 46:17
  our back, he was seeing two other criminal attorneys and
• 46:21
  once I was convicted, he fired that attorney and hired the
• 46:24
  other two to represent him. And then he blamed you for the
• 46:28
  crime. Correct.
• 46:30
  Yes, he sure did. And he went to, went as far as
• 46:38
  once I went to prison, put out a contract on me to ensure that I
• 46:43
  would not go back and testify against him.
• 46:46
  What do you mean he put out a contract on you?
• 46:48
  There was a career criminal female that was in the county
• 46:52
  jail with us. And whenever I went to prison,
• 46:55
  she came after I did. And so she was in the county
• 46:59
  jail with him. And they became writing
• 47:01
  partners, you know, wrote each other and talked to each other
• 47:06
  through the, you know, through the windows.
• 47:08
  And he ended up getting her to take a contract to kill me.
• 47:13
  And so when she came to prison, she befriended me because I knew
• 47:18
  her. I thought, oh good, I know
• 47:20
  somebody, you know, because I was thrown into a world that I
• 47:23
  knew absolutely nothing nothing about.
• 47:28
  And so I thought, well, at least I know somebody that's been
• 47:31
  through the system. They'll she can help me, she can
• 47:33
  protect me, she can show me the ropes in here.
• 47:37
  And but I found out from another offender that she had a
• 47:40
  contract. And so I had to do what I had to
• 47:47
  do to take care of that. And I ended up having my first
• 47:51
  fight in prison because she yes, with her because she was known
• 47:57
  for carrying a Shank. Did she have a Shank when she
• 48:00
  when you fought with her? She was there to kill you and
• 48:03
  you fought her off. And because if I didn't do
• 48:09
  something, it would be on her terms.
• 48:12
  And I, we lived on an open dorm. We had 4 foot cubicle walls.
• 48:17
  So it could happen anytime, any moment, anywhere in the
• 48:21
  bathroom, when I was in the shower, it didn't matter.
• 48:25
  It could have happened anytime. And I, I, I was going home.
• 48:29
  I was going to fight this. I got the courage, I got anger
• 48:33
  can really motivate somebody. And I realize that you can do
• 48:39
  two things with anger, Lila. That's either you can get bitter
• 48:42
  or you can get better. And whenever this happened to
• 48:45
  me, I was intensely angry. Judy, I have to go back to when
• 48:51
  you heard from the jury that they found you guilty of murder,
• 48:55
  I think capital murder, and they're going to lock you up.
• 48:57
  You find you're going to be locked up for life.
• 48:59
  Were you shocked when you heard that verdict?
• 49:02
  Yes, yes. Because I thought there's no way
• 49:04
  they could find me guilty of murder.
• 49:06
  There was no murder weapon. I had no finger.
• 49:09
  There wasn't fingerprints anywhere.
• 49:13
  There was no way that they could do that.
• 49:15
  I really believed in our system. And when the jury came back
• 49:20
  guilty of capital murder, my mother wailed and I was
• 49:27
  heartbroken. But I had to stand there very
• 49:30
  stoic and. Strong and just look at her and
• 49:34
  say mom it's going to be OK it's OK I got this I got this and on
• 49:39
  the inside I was dying you know I thought there go my.
• 49:44
  Children, how old were your kids at this point?
• 49:47
  13 and 3. How long had it been that you
• 49:51
  hadn't seen your 3 year old at this point?
• 49:53
  A year. You hadn't seen him for a whole
• 49:55
  year. That must have killed you.
• 49:57
  It did. It did, yes.
• 50:04
  And now I knew that I was going to go to prison.
• 50:07
  And I didn't know, though, what my sentence would be because
• 50:10
  that capital murder carried a sentence of like, either life
• 50:14
  without parole for 50 years or the death penalty.
• 50:19
  And if I had received the death penalty, Lila, I would have been
• 50:23
  executed. No, it was a gas chamber.
• 50:25
  Then I would have been put in the gas chamber after 18 to 20
• 50:30
  years. And it took me 36 years to prove
• 50:34
  that I was innocent. So I would have never had that
• 50:37
  chance to prove I was innocent. And my children, I would have
• 50:42
  died with them thinking that I was guilty of this.
• 50:47
  Yeah. So.
• 50:50
  Devastating. Yeah, it was.
• 50:53
  It was but my family. They stood beside me every day,
• 50:59
  every step of the way. They knew you were innocent.
• 51:02
  Yes. They believed in you.
• 51:04
  Yes, yes, they did. And but not only did he put a
• 51:10
  contract out on me, because after that happened and I did
• 51:13
  what I had to do then and he realized that did not work.
• 51:17
  It's not going to work because I was somebody different now and
• 51:22
  it didn't take me long to get there.
• 51:26
  But he and his attorneys ended up convincing four other
• 51:34
  offenders to say and go back and testify on his behalf.
• 51:41
  That I told them that I set it up, I shot and killed the victim
• 51:46
  and he had nothing to do with it.
• 51:48
  So they bribed other people in prison to come and testify
• 51:51
  against you. Yes, testify for him if I took
• 51:55
  the stand so it would dispute everything I said that would
• 51:58
  have been for against one. Did you ever testify?
• 52:01
  I could not, even though the prosecutor was willing to let me
• 52:05
  testify when he found out that you always have to give the
• 52:09
  other side a list of your witnesses.
• 52:13
  And these names were on there. And they, of course, when they
• 52:19
  did depositions, they found out what they were going to say.
• 52:23
  And so I could not, he would not allow me to testify because it
• 52:26
  wouldn't have done any good. You know, it would have been
• 52:29
  four against one. And but I did not even know that
• 52:34
  this happened. The prosecutor didn't tell me.
• 52:37
  The only thing he would tell me, well, tell my family, was that
• 52:41
  we can't, we can't use her. And I had no idea until the two
• 52:47
  of these offenders came back through the prison system
• 52:51
  because they were crew of criminals and they were in
• 52:57
  orientation. That's receiving an orientation
• 53:00
  where you first come into the prison.
• 53:02
  And they said one of them said I want protective custody and they
• 53:06
  wanted to know why. And so the Lieutenant came and
• 53:10
  talked to me. He said, Judy, I've got
• 53:11
  something to tell you that I think it's really going to help
• 53:14
  your case. And so he told me that she said
• 53:19
  that she was bribed and paid commissary.
• 53:23
  She was taken care of while she was in prison for going back and
• 53:27
  testifying for my Co defendant. And when you say bribed and paid
• 53:31
  commissary, do you mean they were just paying her bill
• 53:34
  basically for the vending machine and the toiletries?
• 53:36
  Exactly. That's all it took for her to
• 53:38
  testify against you? That's all it took and some of
• 53:42
  these offenders, that's all they have could because the state
• 53:45
  pays you $8.50 a month. So to receive 350 a month for
• 53:50
  canteen and commissary, that's the limit you could spend.
• 53:55
  That was a lot to them, but it cost me more years of my life.
• 54:01
  Do you think that there are fail safes today against this level
• 54:04
  of corruption that existed in the system when you were tried
• 54:08
  wrongly, when you were wrongfully convicted?
• 54:10
  There is some correction to that as far as the attorney
• 54:16
  representing, you know, 2 defendants in the same case.
• 54:20
  So the conflict of interest I think has been resolved.
• 54:24
  However, all the other corruption that occurs in
• 54:27
  prisons I don't think has been corrected.
• 54:31
  And if you and I know you have read the book and you know why I
• 54:37
  was sent to Arizona for four years for an officer sexually
• 54:41
  abusing offenders and I would not play that game.
• 54:46
  And I ended up getting him fired.
• 54:48
  So they sent me out of state to. Retaliate it against you because
• 54:52
  you put off the advances of an officer.
• 54:55
  Correct. Yes.
• 54:57
  And even after I came home from prison, I had to testify in a
• 55:01
  deposition for the attorney. Well, not for the attorney
• 55:04
  general's office for female offenders that had been sexually
• 55:09
  abused by psychologists and psychiatrists in the prison and
• 55:15
  another female officer on several women.
• 55:19
  And I let them know in my deposition to the attorney
• 55:22
  general's office, you want to resolve this issue.
• 55:25
  I said it's been going on since I first came to prison.
• 55:29
  And I said I'm willing to stand up and report it to whoever I
• 55:32
  need to talk to about it. I said you need to be helping
• 55:36
  these women, not prosecuting them and not giving them the the
• 55:42
  the compensation that they need for what happened to them while
• 55:45
  they were under the state's care.
• 55:48
  So I said you really did pick the wrong one to want to take a
• 55:51
  deposition from. How do we how do we stop
• 55:55
  corruption like that, including things like sexual abuse in
• 55:58
  prisons? We have to start standing up.
• 56:00
  We have to start speaking out. And the this case that went
• 56:04
  before the federal judges, they ended up the attorney general's
• 56:08
  office chose not to take it to trial.
• 56:12
  They said no, let's settle. We don't want all of this
• 56:15
  publicity. We don't want all of this being
• 56:18
  being known about our system. Are any of those psychologists
• 56:21
  or psychiatrists or prison guards still active to your
• 56:24
  knowledge? They let them.
• 56:25
  They let them go. They let them go with
• 56:27
  compensation, yes. Crazy what?
• 56:31
  What about the death penalty? You mentioned it earlier.
• 56:33
  Do you think the death penalty is moral?
• 56:36
  I do not, you know, a life is a life.
• 56:39
  I think there's other ways of punishment other than the death
• 56:44
  penalty. How do you justify murder
• 56:47
  regardless of what umbrella you choose to put it under?
• 56:51
  Are you also concerned about innocent people being.
• 56:54
  Absolutely. Being given the death penalty,
• 56:56
  like yourself, you were in danger of that.
• 56:58
  Absolutely, yes. I wouldn't be sitting here with
• 57:01
  you today, Lila, if I had received the death penalty.
• 57:04
  And even the judge, in his instructions to the jury wrote
• 57:10
  in there that in the instructions she was a
• 57:14
  relatively minor participant, meaning I was just in the wrong
• 57:19
  place at the wrong time. I did not play a part in the
• 57:23
  crime, that I was present. And he wanted them to take that
• 57:29
  in consideration, but they did not.
• 57:31
  And they have that right not to. They're the jury, so.
• 57:37
  And then my prosecutor ended up being one of my biggest
• 57:41
  advocates to help me come home. Wow.
• 57:44
  Yeah. Over 35 years in jail.
• 57:48
  Meanwhile, you had When you entered jail, you were 32.
• 57:50
  You had a three-year old and a 11 year old, 13 a 13.
• 57:54
  You had a three-year old and a 13 year old.
• 57:57
  How did incarceration affect your relationship with your
• 57:59
  kids? Well, I'll tell you what you
• 58:03
  learn. If you really want to be a
• 58:05
  mother and you really love your children, you learn how to
• 58:09
  mother behind bars. And some mothers are able to
• 58:14
  navigate that journey and but so, so, so many are not and
• 58:22
  they've not had good role models.
• 58:24
  It's a generational curse on families with career criminals
• 58:29
  that keep going through generation, generation back and
• 58:32
  forth to prison. So these children are raised not
• 58:37
  knowing how to be citizens, how to be adults, how to live a
• 58:44
  normal, healthy, law abiding life.
• 58:47
  So those are things that needed to be changed in the prison
• 58:50
  system. We had to start looking at
• 58:52
  generations of criminals. And so I was able to be on the
• 58:59
  ground floor of pioneering of rich life.
• 59:03
  And that was where we allowed the families to be a part of
• 59:09
  this organization. And we would have visits with
• 59:12
  not just the mom and the child, which we did start that program
• 59:17
  early on in my incarceration for mothers and their children, but
• 59:21
  we. Helped start that program.
• 59:23
  Yes, yes, called Patch. Parents and their children and
• 59:27
  that was one-on-one visits with the child in a home like
• 59:30
  setting, in a trailer where but you first had to take parenting
• 59:34
  classes. We had to teach them how to be
• 59:36
  parents, how to learn their children's love life or love
• 59:40
  language, how to communicate from long distance.
• 59:45
  And that's not easy to do. And we did that through them
• 59:50
  being able to cook foods, took cooked meals with them, play
• 59:54
  games with them, wrestle on the floor with them, watch movies
• 59:57
  with them without a prison setting being in the background.
• 1:00:02
  So it was more of a home like style in a in a trailer without
• 1:00:07
  uniforms around. And but we saw that this had to
• 1:00:11
  extend farther than just the mom and the child.
• 1:00:15
  Because those children were still going back out to their
• 1:00:18
  their other relatives. And so we started including four
• 1:00:24
  H Life. It was a federal grant program
• 1:00:27
  that was started through one of the universities that came into
• 1:00:30
  the prisons. And so I became very actively
• 1:00:35
  involved in that. And that's where the aunts,
• 1:00:37
  uncles, cousins, grandparents could all come in on visits and
• 1:00:42
  let's all talk about this. Let's all do crafts together,
• 1:00:47
  let's all do fun stuff together. Let's all pray together, let's
• 1:00:51
  all have a meal together, sit down like a family.
• 1:00:54
  And that was very, very rewarding.
• 1:00:58
  It was very beneficial and it helped a lot of families
• 1:01:02
  whenever we had that program. So it was.
• 1:01:04
  It was a joy to watch them heal, to heal and break that curse in
• 1:01:10
  their families. What was it like to see Angel
• 1:01:13
  and Chip the first time when since being incarcerated?
• 1:01:18
  It was like they were reborn again.
• 1:01:21
  I felt that joy of seeing my my children holding them clothes
• 1:01:25
  and loving on them and, and. Were they able to embrace you?
• 1:01:30
  How? How were they doing?
• 1:01:32
  In the beginning, yes they were, but then it got to where you
• 1:01:35
  could only have a hug coming in and a hug going out.
• 1:01:39
  And so that was we had to transition into that and that
• 1:01:42
  was difficult. Why?
• 1:01:43
  Why is that? Why is that policy?
• 1:01:46
  Because they thought they it was a way to pass drugs.
• 1:01:49
  A lot of mothers would use their children to what they call
• 1:01:53
  mules. They'd be mules to bring drugs
• 1:01:55
  into the prison to them and so they could sell it and use it
• 1:01:59
  inside the prison. So I always say that every rule
• 1:02:03
  we had we had was created by an offender.
• 1:02:07
  And that's what I used to tell the offenders, you don't like
• 1:02:11
  the rule, quit breaking, quit doing things to make the rule
• 1:02:16
  because that's what you're just making the incarceration harder
• 1:02:20
  for everybody. I said the citizen you were on
• 1:02:23
  this earth did you want to be, is a citizen you need to be
• 1:02:27
  inside the prison system. And that's what I tried to be.
• 1:02:33
  And. How often would you get to see
• 1:02:36
  your kids during those years? My family was very, very good at
• 1:02:40
  bringing the children to visit me and always making sure I had
• 1:02:44
  visits. I know when I first became
• 1:02:46
  incarcerated we had a Christmas visit and I could invite other
• 1:02:51
  offenders that didn't have family and so I invited.
• 1:02:54
  I think it was 3 offenders and I had 25 relatives there for
• 1:02:59
  Christmas dinner with a Turkey, ham, all the fixings and it was
• 1:03:06
  just, it was such a joy. It was just like wow, you know,
• 1:03:10
  my family was so supportive and love to help other offenders,
• 1:03:14
  love to send them things from home and they, my family fought
• 1:03:20
  to help me help other offenders that they kept in the hole all
• 1:03:23
  the time. So it was no wonder they wanted
• 1:03:25
  to send me to Arizona for four years because I was making a lot
• 1:03:29
  of waves. That would be away from your
• 1:03:32
  family to be in Arizona. Yes.
• 1:03:35
  And that's what they said. We're going to send you so far
• 1:03:37
  away that your family will not be able to visit you.
• 1:03:41
  And that's where they sent all encourageables from all the
• 1:03:43
  states to that one prison. So whenever I was shipped there,
• 1:03:49
  I thought, Oh my gosh, you know, these are really the baddest of
• 1:03:53
  the bad. So here I am again.
• 1:03:58
  You spent time in solitary confinement too, Yes.
• 1:04:01
  What was, what was the events there, and what was that like?
• 1:04:04
  Solitary confinement is a concrete slab that you sleep on.
• 1:04:12
  You have a stool, you have a sink.
• 1:04:14
  You have no mirror, of course, but any mirrors in any cell was
• 1:04:18
  not a mirror mirror. It was made of some other
• 1:04:21
  material that reflected you, but not a mirror.
• 1:04:25
  A Chuck hole they call it, which is a door in the hole that they
• 1:04:29
  slide your food food through. And there's no windows.
• 1:04:32
  There is a window, but it's way up on the close to the ceiling,
• 1:04:35
  so you can't see out it and nobody can see in.
• 1:04:39
  And do you talk to anybody? No, the only one you have the
• 1:04:43
  option to talk to is an officer when they bring your meals.
• 1:04:47
  That was all. Did you get to read any
• 1:04:49
  materials or no? Nothing.
• 1:04:52
  So I worked out. That's it, you're by yourself.
• 1:04:56
  By myself, yes. Yes.
• 1:04:59
  You eventually were freed. I mean, 35 years, it's a, it's a
• 1:05:05
  lifetime for some. It is.
• 1:05:07
  I want to hear how you how you were freed and in those 35
• 1:05:12
  years, did you ever at any point give up hope?
• 1:05:15
  Lila, I know this sounds crazy. It sounded crazy to a lot of
• 1:05:18
  people. I was there.
• 1:05:20
  But no, I went in with hope. I went in knowing I would fight
• 1:05:25
  to come home because not only because I was so angry, but
• 1:05:31
  because of the deep love I had for my family and my children
• 1:05:35
  and the deep love they had for me.
• 1:05:37
  And I had to prove to them and anyone else that had knew about
• 1:05:42
  this crime that I was innocent. Even news reporters, the day I
• 1:05:46
  was released, they would the town where I was convicted in,
• 1:05:51
  it was like a jubilee. They said that I I spoke to
• 1:05:53
  these news reporters later on after I got out.
• 1:05:56
  They had seen me in the Capitol speaking to other legislators.
• 1:06:00
  They would come in one particular one and she was a big
• 1:06:04
  reporter on the news in Springfield.
• 1:06:07
  And she said, Judy, is that you, Judy Henderson?
• 1:06:14
  And I turned around. I said, yeah.
• 1:06:16
  I said, who are you? And she said, you don't Remember
• 1:06:20
  Me, but myself and another female reporter came to the
• 1:06:23
  prison to talk with you. And you're so gracious and kind
• 1:06:27
  and let us talk to you. And we walked away crying
• 1:06:31
  because we knew you did not do this.
• 1:06:33
  And we are so happy. The news station, everybody in
• 1:06:37
  Springfield is so happy that you're home.
• 1:06:40
  And she ended up, she was a probate judge at that point and
• 1:06:44
  she ended up helping me later a couple years later with one of
• 1:06:49
  my sisters that ended up with schizophrenia.
• 1:06:53
  And we had to get guardianship of her since I've been home,
• 1:06:56
  which was sad because she was such a joy all during my
• 1:07:00
  incarceration. How did you finally win your
• 1:07:06
  freedom, Judy? Well, I I never gave up.
• 1:07:14
  I started first. I had to understand what got me
• 1:07:19
  there. I had to get serious with my
• 1:07:22
  therapy, understanding. I didn't know anything about a
• 1:07:25
  battered women's syndrome. I didn't even know the term.
• 1:07:28
  And I went to a workshop that volunteers came in and taught
• 1:07:33
  and I learned about it. And I thought, Oh my gosh, this
• 1:07:36
  sounds like me. I am that person.
• 1:07:40
  And so I really got serious about my therapy and but it's so
• 1:07:46
  strange, Lila, because I didn't get serious about it until I
• 1:07:49
  went to Arizona. And Arizona's such a wealthy
• 1:07:52
  state. They had the money and the funds
• 1:07:56
  to have the therapy, to have the psychologist and the
• 1:08:00
  psychiatrist there to help offenders.
• 1:08:02
  So I was blessed to be able to get some good therapy.
• 1:08:06
  And adults molested as children. I took that therapy and that
• 1:08:11
  started helping me heal. And then I worked to help pass
• 1:08:18
  legislate legislation for battered women.
• 1:08:23
  And I thought, you know, I've got to learn the statutes.
• 1:08:27
  I've got to learn the laws that put me here.
• 1:08:29
  I've got to learn about politics.
• 1:08:31
  And this is all in prison. You're doing this.
• 1:08:33
  Oh yes, yes, I finally got to the point where, you know, like
• 1:08:38
  I was saying earlier, there's two things you can do with
• 1:08:40
  anger. Get better, get better.
• 1:08:42
  You combine that with a deep, sincere, heartfelt love that you
• 1:08:47
  have for your children and your family, and you know what I'm
• 1:08:50
  talking about because you're a mother.
• 1:08:53
  And that's a powerful combination right there to put
• 1:08:56
  together. And I felt like I was growing
• 1:08:59
  into this gorilla, like I was becoming King Kong and I was
• 1:09:04
  going to get this done. I didn't know how it was going
• 1:09:06
  to happen that I learned how to put clemency's together, which
• 1:09:11
  most lawyers are never taught how to do a clemency.
• 1:09:16
  And so since then I've done round tables with law students,
• 1:09:20
  schooling them and teaching them how to do clemency's that are
• 1:09:24
  powerful to governors. So I thought I've got to get a
• 1:09:29
  team together. I've got to put a team together.
• 1:09:31
  So I got with the law professors of different law schools and we
• 1:09:35
  started doing a coalition for women.
• 1:09:38
  This was while you were in prison.
• 1:09:39
  While I was in prison. So were you emailing them?
• 1:09:41
  How were you getting in touch with all of these?
• 1:09:43
  People I would, yes, I would write them letters, not e-mail.
• 1:09:46
  We didn't have technology. We had walls or phones on the
• 1:09:49
  wall. So you would write handwritten
• 1:09:51
  letters telling them about your situation.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah, and I went through 6 governors and I was denied.
• 1:09:59
  But each time I made my clemency better and better and better and
• 1:10:04
  realized you have to be very transparent with your life.
• 1:10:09
  Even if you got a traffic ticket, they had to know it.
• 1:10:12
  You needed to let them know that you were being very honest and
• 1:10:16
  real and tell them all the details about your life, whether
• 1:10:19
  you liked it or not, whether it was painful or not.
• 1:10:22
  They needed to know. They needed to see a picture of
• 1:10:26
  what your life was. Did you write these by yourself,
• 1:10:29
  Judy? I did.
• 1:10:30
  Did you have an attorney at the time he was advising you?
• 1:10:33
  I had an attorney that was pro bono that started being my
• 1:10:37
  attorney and it was two years after I was there, Robert
• 1:10:42
  Ramsey, and he was a paid attorney that was there to see
• 1:10:46
  somebody else. And I asked to speak with him.
• 1:10:48
  I told her. I said please let him know I
• 1:10:50
  want to talk to him. So I did and he became my pro
• 1:10:53
  bono attorney. Didn't charge me a penny but
• 1:10:55
  believed in my case and he was there the day I walked out.
• 1:10:59
  Him and his wife. How many other people do you
• 1:11:02
  think there are right now in prison that were wrongly
• 1:11:06
  convicted? Oh my gosh.
• 1:11:09
  I think there's more than what we could probably count on two
• 1:11:13
  hands, and that's very sad because these it's destroying
• 1:11:19
  families. You mean in just anyone given
• 1:11:22
  prisoner in the entire prison? One prison?
• 1:11:25
  So every prison, you're saying there's at least 10 people there
• 1:11:28
  that are? Wrongly convicted?
• 1:11:30
  Oh yeah. If not more.
• 1:11:32
  Yes, because it's not about whether you're guilty or
• 1:11:34
  innocent, innocent. It's about let's get rid of this
• 1:11:37
  case. We got to get this, this case
• 1:11:40
  out of our files. You know, our, our stack is
• 1:11:42
  getting too big and it's costing the state too much money.
• 1:11:45
  So let's just get them convicted, get them sent in
• 1:11:47
  prison. If they're innocent, they'll
• 1:11:49
  figure it out somewhere down the road.
• 1:11:51
  And if not, Oh well. What was the first day of
• 1:11:54
  freedom like when you got clemency finally and you were
• 1:11:59
  freed? Oh my.
• 1:12:02
  Well, for one, I didn't know I was teaching.
• 1:12:05
  I became a fitness trainer, also a personal and group trainer
• 1:12:09
  license so I could come to the street and be do it out here
• 1:12:13
  professionally. And I become a dog trainer so I
• 1:12:17
  could be a dog trainer. I became a hairdresser.
• 1:12:20
  And so I was teaching classes and they told me I had to go to
• 1:12:24
  the visiting room because my attorney came.
• 1:12:26
  I said no, I was arguing with them.
• 1:12:29
  She wouldn't come without letting me know.
• 1:12:30
  So I could have my makeup on. I could do my hair.
• 1:12:34
  Because that was one thing that the.
• 1:12:36
  Prison system did not take from me.
• 1:12:38
  Was trying to keep myself up and they could take my name, they
• 1:12:44
  could give me a number, but they couldn't take certain things
• 1:12:47
  from me that I didn't allow. And so they finally threatened
• 1:12:52
  me with the hole if I didn't go up there.
• 1:12:54
  So I said, Oh well, I think I'm going to have a change of part.
• 1:12:56
  I'm going, you know. So I'm just going to prove to.
• 1:12:59
  You that it's not me that you need it there.
• 1:13:01
  It's another Henderson because we had another one there.
• 1:13:05
  So they said my attorney, whenever they said my attorney
• 1:13:08
  was there and I still had to wait an hour and a half.
• 1:13:10
  That didn't make any sense to me.
• 1:13:11
  And then I thought, oh, this isn't good news.
• 1:13:14
  You know, nothing good is going to become of this because this
• 1:13:17
  has never happened before. And so about an hour and a half,
• 1:13:23
  they got a call in the back and said go ahead and strip
• 1:13:26
  searcher, you know, the attorney has arrived and so go ahead and
• 1:13:31
  send her in. And I was trying to think of
• 1:13:34
  every way I could manipulate getting in that visiting room
• 1:13:38
  because water fountain was there.
• 1:13:39
  I need a drink. Let me go have a drink just so I
• 1:13:42
  can see what was going on. And they didn't fall for it.
• 1:13:46
  So I just had to wait and be patient.
• 1:13:48
  And whenever I walked in, the attorney for the governor had
• 1:13:52
  been to see me about 3 weeks earlier with one of my female
• 1:13:56
  attorneys from the coalition that we created.
• 1:13:58
  She was a law student and then she took me into her own firm
• 1:14:02
  after she graduated. She said this girl's innocent
• 1:14:05
  and I'm keeping her. I'm going to take her into the
• 1:14:08
  firm that I'm buying, I've created, and I'm going to bring
• 1:14:12
  her home. And, and she did, along with
• 1:14:14
  several other team members. And so I walked in and he was
• 1:14:22
  there, the governor's attorney, because whenever he saw me 3
• 1:14:26
  weeks ago, he's just said, I have some questions I want to
• 1:14:29
  ask you. The governor wants me to ask
• 1:14:31
  them, but he said this doesn't mean anything.
• 1:14:33
  This is his first year of his term.
• 1:14:37
  They didn't want to get your hopes up.
• 1:14:38
  Right. Yeah, he said, so we're not
• 1:14:41
  saying that we're going to do anything.
• 1:14:43
  And I said, OK, I understand. And my attorney was there.
• 1:14:46
  She was there with me. But then whenever they told me
• 1:14:51
  to go up there this time, I was just thinking, OK, it, it's bad
• 1:14:58
  news. I don't know if it's something
• 1:14:59
  with my family. It really is my attorney.
• 1:15:02
  And then when I walked in and saw him standing there, Justin
• 1:15:05
  Smith was his name. And we're still all, we're like
• 1:15:08
  family to this day. I said, Justin, what are you
• 1:15:13
  doing here? And then I knew that it wasn't
• 1:15:16
  good. I just figured he was there to
• 1:15:18
  tell me, I'm sorry, but the governor isn't going to be able
• 1:15:21
  to help you. And he said, well, there's one
• 1:15:24
  other thing I wanted to ask you. And I said what he said, well,
• 1:15:30
  he said, actually, there's somebody that's been waiting to
• 1:15:32
  see you for a long time and or not waiting to see you for a
• 1:15:37
  long time. There's somebody that's here
• 1:15:39
  that would like to speak with you.
• 1:15:40
  And he said, turn around. And whenever I did, it was the
• 1:15:48
  said, Oh my God. Oh my God, and I just started
• 1:15:52
  bawling and I went to my knees. And the governor?
• 1:16:01
  He touched me on the shoulder. And he said, Judy, he said it's
• 1:16:05
  good. He said it's good news.
• 1:16:08
  I said what? He said, come over here and sit
• 1:16:12
  with me. So he helped me up and we sit
• 1:16:14
  down at the table. Then he had some papers
• 1:16:17
  underneath the table on a shelf and he pulled it out.
• 1:16:21
  And he said, for one, I want to tell you on behalf of the state
• 1:16:26
  of Missouri, I'm sorry for all the years you've had to be in
• 1:16:30
  prison for something you didn't do.
• 1:16:33
  And he said, So on this day I commute your sentence life, life
• 1:16:47
  served, time served, and you're released today.
• 1:16:57
  I said, what did you say? He said you're going home today.
• 1:17:02
  I said, can you say that again? Because I didn't believe he had
• 1:17:05
  to tell me like 3 or 4 times. I said, are you serious?
• 1:17:09
  He said, yes, you're going home today.
• 1:17:13
  And he said, I'm going to get out of the way because there's
• 1:17:19
  people here that's been waiting forever to see this day.
• 1:17:23
  And he and his staff left and, and walked my daughter and my
• 1:17:29
  son and the rest of my family and my 2 attorneys.
• 1:17:36
  And so that was that was a day I'll always remember.
• 1:17:42
  And my sister was there that had promised me 20 years before that
• 1:17:47
  whenever I come home, she said, I'm going to have you a long
• 1:17:50
  black limo waiting on you. I said what?
• 1:17:54
  And sure enough, they let me go back down to the yard to pack my
• 1:17:59
  property. And whenever I did, there was
• 1:18:04
  1600 women on that yard that was just screaming and yelling and
• 1:18:12
  just so joyful. Everybody was so, so happy and
• 1:18:18
  they knew I was going home. They had already known.
• 1:18:25
  The staff was on every monitor all through the prison knew
• 1:18:29
  something was going on, but they were supposed to keep it a
• 1:18:31
  secret. But they didn't do a very good
• 1:18:33
  job so they let me pack my stuff.
• 1:18:36
  I went to medical because you have to get a medical release.
• 1:18:41
  I walked out the door and the last person I touched offender
• 1:18:45
  wise was the girl that took the contract out on me and I looked
• 1:18:52
  at her and she looked at me because she came back.
• 1:18:55
  We're a criminal. She came back and gave me a high
• 1:19:01
  5 and she said, Judy, what are you doing?
• 1:19:03
  I said I'm going home Pam. She said what?
• 1:19:07
  I said I'm going home. Did you forgive her?
• 1:19:11
  Yes, I did. I did forgive her.
• 1:19:15
  I forgave my prosecutor. I wrote him a letter to let him
• 1:19:19
  know I forgave him, that I felt like he was just doing a job
• 1:19:23
  that he was elected to do. And he did it very well,
• 1:19:26
  evidently. But I said I do want you to
• 1:19:29
  know. And I did that.
• 1:19:31
  When I had done about 2020, some years, I think at Christmas, I
• 1:19:38
  sent him a Christmas card and told him I forgave him.
• 1:19:43
  And I said, here's what I've been doing, Here's what my
• 1:19:46
  family's been doing, Here's how my family's grown with the, you
• 1:19:51
  know, my grandchildren. And I did that every year.
• 1:19:57
  I'd say him an update. And then he became one of my
• 1:20:00
  biggest advocates. It was just something God laid
• 1:20:03
  on my heart to do. And but God led me through this
• 1:20:08
  whole incarceration. Lila Whenever I first came to
• 1:20:11
  prison, I was angry at God. You know, and we had a very
• 1:20:15
  heart to heart conversation because I could not understand
• 1:20:18
  how he could allow something like this to happen.
• 1:20:24
  And then I was chosen as one of 12 candidates to go over to a
• 1:20:29
  residence encounter Christ three day retreat put on by Catholics.
• 1:20:35
  And I did not want to go because I was not in a good place, not
• 1:20:41
  in a good place with the man upstairs.
• 1:20:44
  But once I was there, it was like almost like I'd walked into
• 1:20:50
  like heaven. I mean, it was so, so peaceful,
• 1:20:54
  so calm. And there were these people that
• 1:20:58
  really, really loved us, that came in and gave of their free
• 1:21:05
  time and spent tons of money on food that I hadn't seen since
• 1:21:11
  I'd been in prison and showed us such love.
• 1:21:16
  And then they washed our feet. When they did that, I mean, I
• 1:21:23
  felt the power of God so strong in my life and I thought you
• 1:21:29
  didn't desert me, You know, I deserted you.
• 1:21:39
  And then from that moment on, my face started building and
• 1:21:44
  building and I was able to see God in so much that he was doing
• 1:21:50
  the work that He was doing and why I was there.
• 1:21:53
  I was able to find my purpose, which I feel so fortunate in
• 1:21:58
  doing because after being there and being out here, there's so
• 1:22:03
  many people that don't know with their purposes in life, just
• 1:22:07
  like you. I mean, you found your purpose.
• 1:22:09
  Look at all the hard. Work you've done for so many,
• 1:22:11
  how many lies you've touched and you are another one that was
• 1:22:16
  blessed by your journey. And I think God creates these
• 1:22:21
  journeys for us and that we choose how we want to walk it.
• 1:22:27
  And we either pay attention to the red signs that say no, no,
• 1:22:32
  don't do that, or we don't. And that's our choice, not his
• 1:22:40
  choice. He gave us the choice to do what
• 1:22:42
  we want to do in our lives. So blaming God, it's not God,
• 1:22:49
  it's us that made the choices to be where we were, with the
• 1:22:52
  people we were with, doing something that shouldn't have
• 1:23:00
  happened. So I have to take responsibility
• 1:23:04
  for where I was at, even though it's not, wasn't my choice for
• 1:23:10
  the outcome to be what it was. It was my choice to be at that
• 1:23:14
  place at that moment, at that time.
• 1:23:17
  And I just thank God every day and I love him beyond any man
• 1:23:25
  that I could ever be with. He's given given me fulfillment.
• 1:23:29
  He's given me the love that I searched for.
• 1:23:32
  And he loves me like I wanted to be loved.
• 1:23:36
  And he, he gave me so many gifts and blessings during this
• 1:23:41
  incarceration and my purpose in helping others.
• 1:23:46
  And that is where I found my joy.
• 1:23:49
  And my children are great. They're the greatest.
• 1:23:51
  I'm so proud of them for allowing me to be their mom and
• 1:23:56
  loving me anyways. And Angel just told me the other
• 1:24:00
  day, she said, you know, mom, I always felt close to you.
• 1:24:03
  We always had such a great bond, and we were always so trans.
• 1:24:08
  She was very transparent with me, which sometimes hurt, you
• 1:24:12
  know, because of some of the things she'd tell me.
• 1:24:14
  And I'm thinking, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:24:16
  And. But I was able to mother her
• 1:24:18
  through some tough relationship she was in.
• 1:24:21
  And she said, you know, one reason, Mom, that I was so
• 1:24:25
  comfortable with you is because, for one, I knew you couldn't
• 1:24:30
  ground me. I said, oh, OK, Angel.
• 1:24:36
  And I thought, well, if that's what it took, I'm glad that it
• 1:24:39
  turned out the way it did because you never know what kind
• 1:24:42
  of relationship we would have had, you know?
• 1:24:44
  For real. And now it's just such a
• 1:24:48
  blessing. She's grown up to be such an
• 1:24:50
  incredible woman. And I love my children, my 9
• 1:24:54
  grandchildren, 9 great grandchildren, and it's all
• 1:24:57
  about family and God. And I still work to this day to
• 1:25:02
  try to help others and to help those incarcerated and will
• 1:25:05
  probably die doing so. It's my mission.
• 1:25:10
  Judy, you're incredible. I am so honored that you came
• 1:25:13
  and I hope everyone reads When the Light finds us.
• 1:25:15
  It's available, I think most places you can get books,
• 1:25:17
  certainly on Amazon. We'll include the link.
• 1:25:20
  Thank you for sharing your story with the show and with our
• 1:25:24
  audience. And thank you for inspiring me.
• 1:25:27
  You're you. You are incredible.
• 1:25:29
  Well, thank you, Lila. It it's I'll tell you it was a
• 1:25:32
  tough journey, but it was a great journey.
• 1:25:34
  And would I want to do it again? Of course not, but the end is
• 1:25:41
  just been a miracle. It's God is in the miracle
• 1:25:46
  working business. He put everybody in my life that
• 1:25:49
  was supposed to be there at just the right times and he's still
• 1:25:52
  doing it, you know, with helping me with the book and introducing
• 1:25:56
  me to you. You know, this is the divine
• 1:25:59
  intervention and there's yes. And I'd love the work that you
• 1:26:03
  do and thank you. Thank you, Judy.
• 1:26:05
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode with Judy
• 1:26:07
  Henderson. She's incredible.
• 1:26:09
  Please share this episode with your friends, family and loved
• 1:26:11
  ones. And don't forget to subscribe if
• 1:26:13
  you're not already subscribed. We'll see you guys next time.
• 1:26:16
  And a huge thank you to EWTN Eternal Word Television Network,
• 1:26:19
  which is the largest religious broadcaster in the world.
• 1:26:22
  You can get access to Lila Roe's show episodes 24 hours in
• 1:26:26
  advance at ewtn.com. Slash on demand.
• 1:26:30
  And a big thank you to EWTN and their incredible mission to
• 1:26:32
  bring souls to Jesus.