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Cam Kirk Full Interview · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My next guest is on the phone is Cameron Kirkland,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: also known as Cam kirk. He has been impacting music
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: through his creativity, being behind the scenes and behind the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: camera while in Atlanta. His passion for photography and videography
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: has allowed him to produce work for Young Jeez, t I, Bumby, Tank,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: school Board, Que Monica, to Change Future, Who Your Main,
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  Speaker 1: Young Thug, and many many Moore. His work has been
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: recognized and published and Spend Magazine, Vice Magazine, Complex Magazine,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: The Source, Pitchfork, and many many more. Please welcome to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Money Making Conversations, Cam kirk Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, all right to my friend, Uh,
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  Speaker 1: did I leaving the thing out there? Cam, because you
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: know you got a lot to offer, But bro, you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: got a lot to offer. Yeah, definitely that that definitely
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: covers a lot of my photography career. Um, you know,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I mean gott to update the bio to cover a
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: little more of the entrepreneurial work I've been doing on
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the business side. But that was definitely a great intro, man,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Well, let's get into the this is
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  Speaker 1: money making conversations about entrepreneurship. Let's get into that we're
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  Speaker 1: gonna I got a range of questions here and they
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  Speaker 1: send in questions I did. I try to do my
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  Speaker 1: research about it. But but a couple of questions I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to uh start out with when you said just
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  Speaker 1: to definitely discover this, definitely handled your photography side and
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  Speaker 1: your videography side. You've got a lot of more entrepreneurial things.
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  Speaker 1: How do you make money, cam Kirk? How do you
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  Speaker 1: make money? Wow, that's a very complex question, but I'll
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  Speaker 1: try to give it to you as simple as possible.
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  Speaker 1: I make money a number of different ways. I make
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  Speaker 1: money obviously off the service that I provide and artists,
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  Speaker 1: which is directing my photography service sometimes can lead into
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  Speaker 1: creative direction. Sometimes you can lead into videography. Also make
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: money off the brand that is cam Kirk, and I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: do that through a number of different ways. Everything from merchandise.
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  Speaker 1: I sell merch that UM people that follow me, people
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  Speaker 1: that are you know, following my movement can actually purchase
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  Speaker 1: and support and where also UM get paid for endorsements
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  Speaker 1: or appearances. UM. Right now, I have an endorsement deal
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  Speaker 1: with Pinar Recard, the liquor brand at houses Jamison, Avian
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  Speaker 1: and Martuel Kanye. Um, I get paid to appear at events. UM.
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  Speaker 1: I've done that a number of times, where a brand
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  Speaker 1: will pay for my presence UM at an event to
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  Speaker 1: kind of recap on my social media what the experience was. Like,
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  Speaker 1: I get paid to post on social media. UM. I've
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  Speaker 1: gotten paid to curate events UM and actually put together
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  Speaker 1: guestless and put together with the cool type of lifestyle
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  Speaker 1: events like yeah, you know, I feel like I'm talking
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  Speaker 1: to a celebrity man. You know, I see all the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: behind the scene. Now, when did you run in front
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  Speaker 1: of the scene? Okay, the social media do that for you?
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  Speaker 1: Or or when did you You're a good looking guy,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you tall, so you have a natural presence about you.
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  Speaker 1: But to hear, I'm always almost feel like I'm talking
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  Speaker 1: to a music DJ or something like that. And that's
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  Speaker 1: the approach that's actually um was my strategy as a
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  Speaker 1: as a photographer was to actually brand myself as a musician,
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  Speaker 1: as a music artist. So, you know, my my philosophy
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  Speaker 1: is it's all art. We're all artists. So why did that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, one art form should get more recognition or
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  Speaker 1: be frontline more than the other. It was about two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen when I realized I wanted to take
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  Speaker 1: my life and my career and my own destiny. Working
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  Speaker 1: for musicians, you always come second to the musician, and
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  Speaker 1: musician runs the industry. Um so if not until you
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  Speaker 1: can establish your own voice and your own following that
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  Speaker 1: you can even compete in that lane. So around two
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, I realized I didn't want anybody, you know,
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  Speaker 1: being able to control how much money I made, what
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  Speaker 1: I did today, or what I did tomorrow. I wanted
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  Speaker 1: to be in control of my own destiny. So I
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  Speaker 1: took a little bit of the formula I learned from
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  Speaker 1: working with music artists and apply it to myself as
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  Speaker 1: a musician. And social media was definitely a driving force
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  Speaker 1: for that because it gave it gives all of us
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  Speaker 1: that opportunity to do the same. No matter what career
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  Speaker 1: path or career choice you in. You can actually get
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  Speaker 1: credit for the work you do, and you can actually
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  Speaker 1: build a following based off your vision. Whether you're a
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  Speaker 1: nurse or doctor, lawyer, or rapper, you know you can.
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  Speaker 1: You can put out there into the world your accomplishments,
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  Speaker 1: your wins, your work, and people can grow following to
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  Speaker 1: it if they like and if they're inspired by what
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  Speaker 1: you're doing. And that's what I've been doing over the lives,
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  Speaker 1: you know, really throughout my career, but more specifically and
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  Speaker 1: more like strategy wise, over the last four or five
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  Speaker 1: years of my career. Smart, very smart. And because I
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  Speaker 1: always tell people, if you have social media or you
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  Speaker 1: are your small business, you're an entrepreneur because you now
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  Speaker 1: you can promote your brand. And I tell everybody basically
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  Speaker 1: we're living in the Muhamma and Ali era when you
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  Speaker 1: tell everybody you are the greatest, and that's what social
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  Speaker 1: media is all about, yep, and getting people to believe
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  Speaker 1: it now because it's really cool when I when I
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  Speaker 1: talk about when I listened to when I was reading
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  Speaker 1: about you and uh, looking at your style. You know
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  Speaker 1: you got that swag about you? Is the coolness about you?
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  Speaker 1: You know, these are compliments that I'm that I'm laying
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  Speaker 1: down on you. Do I hear you talk about I sell,
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  Speaker 1: I got I got items you can buy about me,
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  Speaker 1: T shirts and all that. You know, you don't hear
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  Speaker 1: photographers or cameraman or videographers talk about I got swag.
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  Speaker 1: You can buy, merchandise, you can purchase or follow me
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  Speaker 1: because of the fact this it feels so so I'm
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  Speaker 1: assuming then cam Kirk, you have a personality, and my friend,
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  Speaker 1: it's about being confident in myself and confident in the
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  Speaker 1: work that I do. And uh, you know I do lead.
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  Speaker 1: I tend to lead forward the work first, right, and
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  Speaker 1: I think that was established, you know, a following behind
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  Speaker 1: my brand, behind my name. Um so the first the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: work always speaks before I speak. But you know, I'm
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: definitely able to articulate myself and present my ideas in
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  Speaker 1: effective way where you know people people tend to like
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  Speaker 1: what I have to say and like what I have
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  Speaker 1: going on, so it all works out right. Now, you're
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  Speaker 1: my first official photographer I've had, I've interviewed on the show,
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  Speaker 1: and uh, going all the way back to my life
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  Speaker 1: in my high school days, you know, young college days,
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  Speaker 1: and you know I had I had my little thirty
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  Speaker 1: five millimeter, I had my cod that Trix film, you know,
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  Speaker 1: four hundreds this, you know, black and white, grainy, going
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  Speaker 1: in that dark room, getting my developer rolling, feeling like
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  Speaker 1: a secret agent, putting in that stop bath, then put
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  Speaker 1: it in that fixer. Are you all digital or do
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: you use film at all? Our experiment with film right
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: now and then, um, I definitely built um my style
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  Speaker 1: off digital rights. Was very fun to go back and
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  Speaker 1: play around with some film styles. It's something about film
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  Speaker 1: that really creates an emotional connection to the work that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: you create because of the process. And um it's just
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: not so instant. It's not so instant. Sometimes that instant
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: gratification can make you less grateful for the work and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: less grateful for the art form. So right now, then
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I definitely pull out, you know, my film camera and
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I shoot a couple of my artists with that just
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  Speaker 1: to give us a different texture and a new style.
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  Speaker 1: It does give a different texture, and it's it's and
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  Speaker 1: it's something about the fact that you know, because when
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  Speaker 1: you're dealing with film, you have to handle it differently, okay,
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  Speaker 1: and so you know, you know, like digital, the digital
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  Speaker 1: it's because you can just you can just you're done.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you can just keep clicking, you can just
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  Speaker 1: hold your finger down. But you know, on film you
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  Speaker 1: gotta lim another shots you can get off that role
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  Speaker 1: of film. So the shots have to mean something and
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  Speaker 1: you really have to have the right creative eye. And
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  Speaker 1: so when I talk about my days talking about you
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  Speaker 1: because you you know, you're you're You're a Martin guy.
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  Speaker 1: You you're you you have developed a style of this
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  Speaker 1: very popular and you're not You're not stopping what I'm saying.
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  Speaker 1: It's not stopping you from being successful. But I love
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  Speaker 1: the fact that you say it's a different emotional attachment
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  Speaker 1: when you're doing film, because it really is. Yeah, definitely,
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  Speaker 1: definitely is. It's something that you know, I say, I
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  Speaker 1: take pride and you know, just my work as a whole.
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  Speaker 1: And I started experimenting with film probably about heavy two
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  Speaker 1: or three years ago. Thank you, just to try to
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  Speaker 1: switch up my vibe a little bit and try to
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  Speaker 1: try to, you know, see what that life is like.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in a in a photography household.
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  Speaker 1: My dad's a photographers. I remember helping him load film
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  Speaker 1: back in the day. That's something that I, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I said, definitely relate to. Also, I really appreciate that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, we're gonna go to the next break here,
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  Speaker 1: but I want to talk about your your your HBCU
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  Speaker 1: grad ballhouse. I want to talk about that, and then
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  Speaker 1: we want to talk about the entrepreneurship side that you
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  Speaker 1: spoke about earlier when I asked you about different ways
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  Speaker 1: to make money. We'll be right back with a man,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Cam Kurt. You know he's old school, news school. You
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  Speaker 1: know I'm trying to I'm trying to get him to
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  Speaker 1: do an entire show gallery presentation where he just uses
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  Speaker 1: film because we're gonna make it right. We're gonna make
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna bring back film, Cam, We're gonna bring back film.
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  Speaker 1: How this Rashan McDonald and you're listening to money making
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: conversations on the phone. Is Cam Kirk one of the
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  Speaker 1: truly brilliant people who are behind the scenes. He's taking
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  Speaker 1: his brand when I said behind the scenes photographer, videographer,
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  Speaker 1: uh and he he decided to treat his talents, his
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  Speaker 1: skills as an artist and allowed him to be able
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  Speaker 1: to market his brand on his social media too. He
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  Speaker 1: walks in the room, he will be walking the room
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  Speaker 1: with a camera he made walk in the room where
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  Speaker 1: with the function that one would say is behind the scenes,
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  Speaker 1: But he's been representing his brand as an overall three
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  Speaker 1: sixty I'm in front of the camera. I stylized, styleised
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  Speaker 1: things that brands that come to me and represents me. Now,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I love the fact that I just finished this large
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  Speaker 1: event recently with Steven A. Smith cam we call it
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  Speaker 1: HBCU Week and the Wilmington, Delaware UH Steven A. Smith UH.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: He is a He is an HBCU graduate from Winston
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  Speaker 1: Salem State. The power of HBCUs, I feel this this
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  Speaker 1: tremendous grounds well of media positive media attention about the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: academics side and the success stories of the tip to HBCU.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: You're a more House graduate, tell us about the value
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: of HBCU and the future of HBCUs. I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: think that there's there's nothing more powerful than you know,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: attending the university that where you still you belong and
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: all so where you feel as though you don't have
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to try to fit in or you don't have to
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  Speaker 1: put on a facade or a mask. You can kind
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  Speaker 1: of be yourself. And that was kind of my vibe
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  Speaker 1: at at More House, like being around like minded brothers
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  Speaker 1: um I didn't have to feel like we had to
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  Speaker 1: be more than what I was at that time. I
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  Speaker 1: didn't have to feel like I had to put on
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  Speaker 1: the front or do things a certain type of way.
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  Speaker 1: I was able to actually go to school and really
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  Speaker 1: just focus on maturing myself as an individual. And learning
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  Speaker 1: what the school had to offer. And I think there's
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  Speaker 1: nothing better than attending the university, you know, specifically like Morehouse,
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  Speaker 1: where it's deeper than the books. It's deeper than what
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  Speaker 1: they teach you in the classroom, but they actually have
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  Speaker 1: a focus and a dedication to grooming you as an
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  Speaker 1: individual and as a man and preparing you for a
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  Speaker 1: lot what life is like in the real world, so
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  Speaker 1: to stay or life after college when you have real
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  Speaker 1: responsibilities and things of that nature. So you know, I'm
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  Speaker 1: forever grateful for the decision I made to attend an HBCU,
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  Speaker 1: and more specifically, UM, I am a little fearful of
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  Speaker 1: the future. I think. I think, um, the world is
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  Speaker 1: moving to this. Um. I think it's a it's a
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: mythical idea, but it's facade that everything is Kumbayan and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: we are all one, and there's there's no need for
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  Speaker 1: hbc US anymore because we're accepted everywhere to a certain degree,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: which I would kind of argue argue that a little bit. Um.
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  Speaker 1: So I am a little fearful of for the future
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  Speaker 1: of it. Um. You know, but hopefully through you know,
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  Speaker 1: careers like mine, and you know, you mentioned Stephen a
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  Speaker 1: like prime examples of individuals that have come from the
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: hbc you hopefully you know, through our reputation and our legacy,
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  Speaker 1: we can keep it strong and keep it alive. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I agree, you know, Steven, and I didn't go to
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  Speaker 1: an HBCU. I'm a fan of the educational system him.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I graduated from the University of Houston right down the
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  Speaker 1: street from Texas Southern University, right down the road the
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  Speaker 1: Preview and m so I'm there from me with a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: lot of friends that attended attended both schools. But I
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  Speaker 1: just feel that we need to need to give it
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  Speaker 1: a voice and so, and that's why I'm very adamant
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  Speaker 1: about screaming out the values of what HBCU because all
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: we here about HBCUs most of the time is the
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: halftime show and the football team. And that's not fair.
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  Speaker 1: And that's not fair because the amount of academic growth
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: that is in the corporate world, of financial world and
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: just so many layers, you know, really, because HBCUs don't
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: have a voice, a lot of other schools are taking
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: credit for those people being hired. And that's why we
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: need to talk more. And guess what, you have a
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: fan here, my friend and just know that I had
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: to bring that up and everybody who comes on my
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: show that it is an HBCU grad like Lynn wi
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Will was on the show last week at last month
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  Speaker 1: and um and she's uh Howard University graduate. And I
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: just want to keep pointing that out that people so
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: people said, oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And that's because there's value in the education is also
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: valuating and knowledge and where you were educated. Um, that's
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: my soapbox moment. And uh, I hope you don't mind,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: but you you came a more house and I just
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: always gotta give it time to be recognized where you're
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: doing and where you came from. Let's talk about your
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: collective gallery. I really loved with the statement this is
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: your record label style label for photographers. Now, you're funny
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to me, cam because of the fact that you you
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you are bringing so much coolness to a photographer and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and so much style to be able photographer. Hey man,
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  Speaker 1: you you know, it's just like it's almost like making
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: photographers sexy, IM making them feel like they're they're there. Hey,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you know you work in the room, you know, with
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a camera in your hand. Everybody should run to you.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that's important now because of the fact
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that with selfie, you know, everybody got selfies, everybody got phones,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: photographers are in some ways are being devalued. Am I right?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I would, I would kind of agree with that for sure.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And so with this whole process of how you're approaching
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the collective gallery, talk to us about that. Yeah, so
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'd like to say, I'm I'm I'm the non traditional photographer.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: My whole career getting that to photography has been nontraditional,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So I don't I don't operate with limitations, So I
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: don't operate with the mindset of oh, this is what
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: a photographer is supposed to do, or a photographer does
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: this or does that. I kind of make my own
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: rules up, and um, you know, Collective Galley is another
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: extension of that push that I'm trying to do, where
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you know, my goal is to just even the playing
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: field across all creative mediums and all creative forums, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you know, get people to understand that hip hop and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: pop culture, you know, we play a major role in that,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: we play a major role in the way that fans
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: engage with their favorite artists, their favorite actors, or whatever.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: It all comes through our lenses, and it all comes
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: through our vision, and I think it's important. I think
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: it's it's a time where, you know, the industry as
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: a whole starts to actually support and provide more resources
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: for these content creators. I mean, I said all the time,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: like me, as my career, I've had to be a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: hundred percent self funded. You know that there's no there's
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: no company I can run to and show them my
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: portfolio and say give me, you know, a million dollar
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: record deal and let me let me um do five
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: more projects like this, you know, on your dollar, and
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: you guys help blow my career up. A lot of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: what I've had to do is had to be really
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: out the mud doing it myself. And at this point
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: in time, you know, judging off my career and other
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: photographers I like, like me, I've been able to kind
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: of navigate in this world and build a following and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: monetize their craft in all these different ways. I just
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: feel like it's time for the industry as a whole
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: to realize, like it's great to have your musicians, but
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: you should also think about other aspects of the culture
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and other aspects of the industry that you guys can
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: take and monetize and put on the scale and and
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: invest in, invest in these ideas, invest in these other creatives,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and expand your mediums that you offer and that you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that you support and provide for. I'm gonna just do
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: it myself. So was that why the the why you
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: created camp Kirk Studios. Yeah, Camp Crek Studios was like
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the building blocks that led me to collective Gallery. But
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of what I do was built upon,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you know, passing back to torture, passing back resources that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I've gained along the way. So when I was coming
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: up through photography, I didn't have a home studio that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I could use or and learn from, get through workshops
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: or go to you that had affordable even free um
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: free uh rental slots, or just a community that can
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: come together and support each other and I can bounce
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: ideas and say, how do you guys like this photo?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Or do you like this or what should you do?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: And just learn new techniques that didn't really exist when
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I was coming up. So it's important for me to
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: take a lot of the resources, a lot of the network,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of the things I've learned along the way,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: bottle it up and put it into a brick and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: mortar facility where kids following in my footsteps can actually
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: come to and experience some of those same things that
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I've I've learned and actually you know, grow their craft
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and sustained natural industry or photography. So it's that the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: mission that I'm on as much deeper than myself. Like
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I have a goal in mind where I want a
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: third grade kid in school to raise his hands that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I want to be a photographer one day, and that
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: not can be crazy. I don't want to want to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: look at them and say, what, that's not a job. No, okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I see that that's a real career path you can
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: do this, this and this with And you know, that's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the mission that I'm kind of on specifically within the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: black community and allowing us to understand the value and
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: documenting and telling our own stories, creating our own content
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and owning our own content and you know, being able
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: to control our own narrative, and a lot of that
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: starts with the work we do behind the camera. Now,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it's really camp Kirk studio is a studio is fully
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: equipped with professional lighting equipment or natural light. Studio backdrop options,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: changing errors and WiFi. So this is a studio where
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: do you do you do photo shoots over there? Or
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: these are individuals could like different areas where they can
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: get a potential business to do photo shoots. Yeah, it's
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a spacebook for photographers and other continent creators to rent out.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So we're specifically a facility you know, sorts and photographers
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: all around, and even businesses of all around. We've had
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: everyone from Nike to Adidas to Puma to for so
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: many you know, companies that actually use our facilities to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: create work. Don't stop doing what you're doing, and you
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: are gonna have my staff call you and I'm gonna
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: set up a photo shoot at your place. Okay, all right,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's do it. I appreciate you, my friend,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this camp. Kurt