Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #195: Purgatory, Prayer & Divine Mercy: Lessons from Susan Tassone

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Catholic Conversations #195: Purgatory, Prayer & Divine Mercy: Lessons from Susan Tassone · Catholic Spirit Radio

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Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Good day and welcome to Catholic Conversations. I'm your host,
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David Liptack, and we're proud and very blessed to go ahead and have a very
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special guest today, Susan Tassone.
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Is that correct, Susan? Is that the correct pronunciation of your last name?
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Tassone. Tassone. So there's an Italian part of that, isn't it? Yeah, exactly, right.
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Gotcha, gotcha. Well, we've been chatting a little bit coming into this,
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but I want to go and follow up on that shortly but I certainly want to make
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sure that we cover and start with a prayer.
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So I always like to start off with a prayer to our mother.
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In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen.
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Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who
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fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided.
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Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins,
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my mother. To thee do I come before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful.
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O Mother of the Word incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy,
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hear and answer me. Amen.
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In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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So, well, the introduction is a very powerful introduction.
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I've come to find out that Susan here is the all-time best-selling author in the history of EWTN.
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And that says a lot when you think of all the authors and everybody that's done
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any type of writing on behalf of or through EWT Network.
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And Susan has the privilege of saying that she is number one. How about that?
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So Susan, tell me a little bit, how did you get to be number one?
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Well, I didn't even know that they were counting.
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You know, my job was to get the message out about the souls of purgatory.
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And that was my focus, David.
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You know, how do you help them? What were they experiencing?
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You know, do we go to purgatory? Is it a punishment?
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And so for the last 25 years, that's what I've been called to do.
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And we've written nine books on purgatory and six books on Faustina.
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And so that's how I got involved in purgatory. And what I discovered was I actually
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had the privilege of working for Cardinal George when he was alive.
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I was his development officer for six years.
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And somebody asked me to write some articles on purgatory. It's a famous website.
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In fact, spiritdaily.com. It's one of the top 100 websites in the world.
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And I started writing. I was already writing for our Sunday visitor.
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And I started writing for him while I was working for Carter George and writing
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for OSV and I was also involved in writing mail campaigns for the missions because
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these are Catholic missionaries and we needed to support them and what I discovered, David, was.
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The faithful have a deep, deep, deep love for their dead.
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They will go to whatever lengths or means to help them. And I attribute it to that.
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It's their love for them that triggers these mass stipends and books.
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And to help them understand purgatory, that it's not a scary place, it's not a punishment.
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And if they are in purgatory, this is what you can do.
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You could to have masses offered. You pray the rosary. You do,
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you know, you do the adoration, mass, rosary, adoration, fasting.
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I call them the four pillars, those stations of the cross. In fact,
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this is a great time to include them in your prayers and your sacrifices during
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Lent, because most souls are released on Christmas Day.
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The next greatest number of souls are released at Easter.
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So this is, you know, they want to be included in your sacrifices because they
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want to get home for Easter.
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And so that's what I did. I tried to explain in which we did what purgatory was.
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And so I saw the responses.
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Totally overwhelming. You know, we had to hire staff and, you know,
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Cardinal George was ecstatic because the Massipers went to mission countries. He was a missionary.
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And we learned about how I got to meet all these missionaries that came to our
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office and would tell us stories that, you know, their seminarians had no vestments.
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The seminarians couldn't even, they couldn't even, you know,
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their first Mass, there were no, they had no chalices because their family members,
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That's kind of a custom that they would get them a chalice, and they were unable
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to because they were so poor.
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So we started a chalice program, a vestment program, and we were able to give
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them, you know, he had all his priests, you know, and they had no stipends to give them.
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Because the stipend that they give to their priests in these third world countries
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buy bread and wine for the Eucharist, the stipend buys books for some Manarians.
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And what do you get when you get books for some Manarians? You got a priest for 40 years.
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That stipend builds chapels and orphanages. So that's what I learned.
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And of course, that stipend also, mass stipends, pray for the deceased because
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the mass is the most powerful means to relieve and release the Holy Soul.
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So that's why I would think that my works became so powerful and popular because of the love.
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No matter what faith people have for their deceased. And then,
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you know, and I got to learn so much because, you know, I was working with Father
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Mitch and I was studying, but like I said, we have nine books within promoters
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and many of them, you know, Cardinal Saran endorsed.
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I mean, over a dozen bishops and cardinals have endorsed my books.
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And what I learned, I wanted to, you know, for 20 years, I've been studying purgatory.
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And so one of the things I wanted to share was that these people had great love
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for their family and were they in purgatory and how to get them out.
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And like I said, the key way, because I was working with the masses for the,
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you know, for the mission.
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But there was this common question, David, that I would get would be,
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well, what if they were not in purgatory?
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What if they were in heaven? And I, you know, and I had to do my homework and it took a while.
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And usually we hear the response, well, you know, the Lord passes on the prayers
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to somebody else if that was the case.
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Well, I discovered, and it's in his own writings, that Thomas Aquinas tells
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us it's even more than that.
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If a soul is already in heaven and you continue to pray for that soul,
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that soul gets two things.
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It gets an increase in its intercessory power, which is in the Catechism,
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number 959, and it gets an increase in its intimacy with God.
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And what does that mean? an extra boost of joy
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it receives so the lesson is
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david you never stop praying for your dead because if
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they're in heaven this is what they get this is the additional things
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they get called accidental glory and that's what that means accidental glory
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is they get an increase in their intimacy with god and then they get an increase
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in their intercessory power so the more you pray for them the more they can
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help you because then once they're in heaven they can and turn around and benefit
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us through their prayers.
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They can intercede. Their prayers become very powerful.
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When you pray for them, you increase their power.
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So if your family is in heaven and you don't know, but they probably are.
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So what do they get if they're not in purgatory, they're in heaven?
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So what do those prayers do?
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It increases their intercessory power and it increases their intimacy with God.
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So the lesson is you never stop praying for them because they continue to get these things.
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Wonderful. And that was through Thomas Aquinas, correct? Yes.
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Thomas Aquinas is called Exit of Glory.
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Got it. Wonderful. Yeah. Well, that's fantastic. I always bring up because people,
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so that was one of the questions I would, you know, they, people were so happy.
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So guess what? So they would get, they would do masses, whether they were in
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heaven or not. They, you know, they wouldn't just say, well,
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they're not in heaven. I don't want to give them masses.
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Well, they are, but now they're going to get this. And so that even increased,
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increased, you know, increase the relationship with God. Sure.
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Yeah. Their prayers and their intimacy with God. Exactly.
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Very, very, you know, just fascinating. It is. We don't know.
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So, so Susan about, you said you had a number of books, you had a number of
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them dedicated to purgatory, correct?
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Yeah, there were, there are nine books on purgatory. There is a day by day for
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the Holy soul. Very, very, very popular.
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It's 365 days of everything you want to know, everything I could,
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you know, I did most of my research at Montaline Seminary.
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The greatest collections of purgatory are there, are there. I was so fortunate.
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I was led there. So I spent,
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Oh, God, at least three years, you know, digging through the collection,
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and I was able to go there because I worked for Cardinal George,
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you know, and so I was able to get in and I was able to take home, you know,
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mountains of books and some of the greatest collections and some of the greatest
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writings and then bring them forward for this generation.
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So I saw what God was doing when I look back. I'm like, oh, I see what you're doing.
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We're bringing forward this doctrine and making it, you know,
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accessible and understandable.
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And, you know, and of course, things have changed, you know,
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indulgences, whatever.
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So we did day by day. And then we did a rosary. All the scripture passages related
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to purgatory are in the rosary for the Holy Spirit and purgatory.
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We did, there's a great book. If you want to know about stories,
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you like stories, praying with the saints.
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Incredible stories about the saints and their experiences with the Holy Souls,
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from Padre Pio to John Wayne, Teresa of Avila, St.
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Patrick, because there's a purgatory island in Ireland. That's fascinating, if you like stories.
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And then we did a little pocket-sized book. We have 365 days.
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We did a 30-day of the greatest things, the most important things,
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topics on purgatory is in this little pocketbook day by day. So we have that.
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Then we have prayers, promises, and devotions for the Holy Soul.
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That one is very popular.
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In fact, Father Joseph from EWTN got on the air during math,
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and he held it up, and he said,
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this is what I bring when I'm visiting the sick, because in there are prayers
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for the soul and all kinds of devotions and also a whole section on what to do if somebody is dying.
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Or suffering or sick. And we have that in there. We have that South Harden in
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there. So he really, he really liked that.
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So there's, there's that particular book, I think. And then we have the,
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the way of the cross because,
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That particular book is indulgence. What helps the souls?
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Indulgence varies, David. So the rosary is indulgence.
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The stations of the cross are indulgence. And going to adoration, you gain an indulgence.
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So there's not anything that we didn't cover to get our friends out of purgatory.
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So you've covered all the bases as far as purgatory is concerned from just about every angle.
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Yes. And then there was one angle that was in my mind for 12 years.
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And, you know, God puts before me what I need to do, and I have to push it back,
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push it back for 12 years until already, was it, it's already, what, two years old?
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I wanted to do a children's book for over 12 years.
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And finally, I had a window, and that took me three years to do.
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It won five awards from the Catholic Media Association, and we needed to reach the children, David.
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Nothing, you know, and so it's breathtaking, literally.
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EWTN called it the masterpiece. You can get it at EWTN. And how do you teach
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children about purgatory? That doctrine.
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Well, what did Jesus do? What did he do? He told stories.
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So this is, you know, this is, it's called New Friends, Now and Forever.
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Yeah, a story about the soul.
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David, I don't say this because this is what everyone told me,
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and the awards confirmed it. It's breathtaking.
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The pictures are breathtaking. We had an illustrator from Indonesia that he, God sent him.
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That's all I can say, because it took me three years to do, and he was the one,
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you know, and it took me three years to find somebody that in my mind,
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I couldn't tell what it was, But I knew if I saw an illustration,
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I would know it was him and God sent him. It's true.
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Actually, he was sent through one of my colleagues at EWTN.
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But anyway, we have this breathtaking story. We have a seek and find in there.
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We have a letter to the parents that explain purgatory.
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So when they're going through the book, they're able to understand if they get
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questions from the kids.
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We have certain key words that we took and put on the back of the book.
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Very interactive. And, of course, it won, and I'm just thrilled.
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I've got five awards here. Yeah.
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Five awards. Yeah. And there's no children's book that has ever won that many awards for one book.
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What's the age group dedicated to this? The age group is from,
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I believe, six to ten. Okay.
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Six or five, actually five, because I've been getting feedback from the children.
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It's so much fun. How neat. So five to 10 years old, and mothers would tell
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me that one daughter, one little boy, and it's a very uplifting,
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very happy, a very happy book.
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The ending is breathtaking.
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And one little boy, after she read the story to him, she said that it was time
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for their treat, I guess. And he told her he didn't want the treat.
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He wanted to offer it for the souls in purgatory. Oh, sweet.
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Yeah. And there was another little girl that I was speaking on the book,
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and she was in the audience.
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And she comes up after me, and she wanted to know, because the ending is,
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it's in paradise, and it's breathtaking.
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It's two full pages, you know, it's a big children's side book.
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And she wanted to know if you could go swimming in purgatory.
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I mean, not purgatory, in heaven. In heaven. Is there swimming in heaven?
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And then she wanted to know, is there bubble gum in heaven?
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And this one, so a priest friend of mine read it to his, I forget,
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first graders, second graders.
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And I said, what kind of questions? He said, these kids are deep.
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They wanted to know what Mr. Ray, you know, it's about, you know, it's about Mr.
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Ray, you know, these twins go to church every Sunday.
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And Mr. Ray's in the pew and he becomes a pew buddy. And then they learned that
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Mr. Ray's wife, Gloria, died. and he was praying for her.
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He was teaching them on how do we help them, you know?
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And, oh gosh, I forgot the question. What was it that they wanted to know?
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Lord have mercy. I think I just threw a blank.
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But swimming was one thing. Swimming in the bubble gum, right?
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And the bubble gum was another. And I can't remember the other. But it was so precious.
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So the point is, the point, so hearing all this, the most important thing was, David, was.
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Did we reach the children? Were they, were they, did they like the book?
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Were they happy to read the story?
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And, and the reviews were fantastic. I thought we got to the children.
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They, it was uplifting. It was not depressing.
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And the illustrations, like I said, they, you know, the, the judges went nuts
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over the illustration, the cover one first place. I mean, it was just nothing.
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We got it right. It took 12 years and then three years to go through it.
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But I'm that, that was my little masterpiece.
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So please, you know, please get a copy of it.
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You know, even I was told the adults like it because they learn about purgatory themselves.
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And you can go get EWTN has all these, all these beautiful books.
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Well, that's what I was going to ask. Is this something that's available through
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your website online or is it through EWTN?
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Where would we go and find this? You can go anywhere.
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I always say support EWTN and support your local, your local bookstores.
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And of course, it's always on, it's always on Amazon. and the discount of these books are incredible.
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You know, for whatever reasons, you get some very steep discounts.
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I don't know what they do, but that's okay with me because the point is just
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to get the word out and have these people, you know, and remember that,
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you know, what's in it for you?
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You know, if you worked in the corporate world, David, there was always the
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wisdom, they called it, what do I get out of this?
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You know, if you're praying for the dead, well, their interest has to be power
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is bar none. they pray for you they can do one thing in purgatory David they can pray for.
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But they can't pray for themselves. They're helpless. The time of marriage is
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up, but they can intercede while they're in purgatory.
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And the guardian angel tells them who is praying for them. So they inform them.
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And once they know, they pray for us unceasingly, interceding for us,
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protecting us. And David, I've done this for a long time.
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I absolutely, hands down, can attest, it takes my breath away.
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I tell them I don't want visions and I don't want you to appear.
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Just take care of my family, take care of the needs of my friends,
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and look out for us. And they do.
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And they let you know that you can tell it's them. So they intercede.
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They pray for you while they're in purgatory.
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That's the only thing they can do is intercede for you. They can't pray for themselves.
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And once they are released from purgatory, the first thing they do is they pray
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before the throne of God.
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They prostrate, praying for you all the days of your life until you're safely home in heaven.
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They become your nearest, your dearest, and your sincerest friends for all eternity.
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These are the people you want in your corner. In your corner,
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sure. Sure, that makes perfect sense.
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What an education we're getting here. Thank you so very much, Susan.
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Yeah, a quick one. I hope we have enough time to talk about that.
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Well, that's what I was going to say. Let's go ahead and do this.
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We've got to go ahead and take a quick break here.
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We're visiting with Susan Tassoni, correct?
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And we will be back in just a bit because we want to go ahead and catch up on,
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I guess, was this your latest book as far as praying with Jesus and Faustina?
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During Lent and the Times of Suffering? Actually, no, it's an older title that E.W.
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Chan had contacted me and wanted me to talk about it because Faustina is forever,
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she's a perennial. Gotcha.
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And they wanted to know what she had to say about Lent. Okay,
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well, hold that thought. We're going to take a quick break here,
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and we'll be right back with Susan Tassoni.
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Welcome back to Catholic Conversations. I'm your host, David Liptak.
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We've got a fascinating guest here we're chatting with, Susan Tassoni.
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You know, she's a wonderful...
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Resource. My gosh, she just dove right into us. Most of her life,
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by the sounds of it, has been dedicated to the research on purgatory.
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But she's going to go ahead and we're going to delve into the book on praying
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with Jesus in Faustina during Lent and times of suffering.
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So it's a very appropriate time, of course, in the middle of Lent,
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starting Lent, I should say, and we're going to find out a little bit more about
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this particular book. Susan.
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Do me a favor and tell me, what makes this book different from other devotionals here during Lent?
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Yes. You know, David, there's a lot of books that come out every Lent, and they're wonderful.
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And I'm happy to see them. But what makes mine different is that we're talking about Faustina.
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She's the most Google saint on the Internet. I don't know if you know that. I didn't know that.
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She's the most Google saint, and she's the most people order pictures and medals
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and rosaries with the joiner with her face on it. Yeah, she's huge, very huge.
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So the book focuses on the actual words of Jesus and Faustina in the diary.
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It addresses really the terrible times and the terrible sufferings that we're
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experiencing today. It addresses that.
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So you really don't find contemporary books like this because there's never
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been a combination about Jesus sharing the things that he wanted us to know
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about his passion. and Faustina, you know, relating to him and talking to him and what he said to her.
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So I wanted to capture his words about his sorrows and his death that he spoke to Faustina.
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And remember this, David, he's saying it to us too.
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This diary is not just Faustina. This diary is speaking to us.
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That's why I did six books on Faustina.
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So I'll give you an example. Please. We're just coming off. It's Friday,
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the first week of Advent.
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I mean, of Lent. I'm sorry. take out the ad and we got lunch
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you know and he spoke to her this is what he said you're on ash wednesday he
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said you please me most when you meditate on my sorrowful passion the contemplation
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of my painful wounds is of great profit to you and it brings me great joy so
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so that's what's very interesting is that,
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So that's what he's saying, what pleases him. You want to please him?
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Then he said to contemplate my wounds, contemplate my passion.
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Another unique feature is that we have this special section called In Times of Suffering.
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Because I didn't want to just keep it, I didn't want to narrow the book just to Lent.
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We suffer all year long, okay? She suffered all year. So I didn't want to limit
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it to Lent because suffering is nonstop.
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And I wanted to point out that Faustina suffered just like all of us do.
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She suffered emotionally. She suffered from a terminal illness.
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She had this stigmata where she experienced the passion in her body.
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She suffered emotionally in addition to the terminal illness because the sisters
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didn't believe she was sick.
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And they thought she was trying to avoid work. And they made fun of her.
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And they insulted her. And they even called her a horrible name.
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And they called her Dump.
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So she suffered from that. How would you like to live in a convent,
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you know, with that coming at you?
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All the time, sure. Yeah, really. In fact, you know, she had commented,
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I think, not in this book, but it might have been in this book,
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but she said, you know, you know, they're not angels. You're not living with angels, okay?
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You know, you're living with human beings. You don't live with angels at home
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either, you know? So she suffered mentally because she was having visions of
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Jesus and Mary for three years, and she doubted herself, and she thought she was going crazy.
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Well, one would think. I mean, if you've got—here you are cloistered with all
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these other religious, and they're belittling you, and yet you're still receiving
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these type of visions, you'd have to go ahead and try to challenge yourself
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and say, is it or is it not? Yeah.
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Your own sanity ought to be questioned. You nailed it. Exactly.
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And then, David, on top of all of this, she was given the task of Jesus to spread
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the message of divine mercy.
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And she had no idea how she would do that from a convent.
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Okay, so that's what makes the book so unique. And there's nothing like it.
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There's no Lent book. There's no book on suffering.
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But I think I might be jumping ahead because I'm excited. Well,
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that's okay. I'll let you jump. I'll let you go.
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I will follow your lead. You go ahead. I was just going to ask.
24:09
We're talking about the suffering. And we were talking about the stigmata,
24:13
the fact that she was ridiculed by her sisters and the questionality of her
24:19
mental state relative to her visions.
24:22
So how did she go about having to cope with?
24:25
With this in this particular environment. One would think, say,
24:28
I'm out of here. I don't need to put up with this. I'm leaving.
24:30
So how does Faustina cope with this? That makes two of us.
24:35
Show me the door. Right. Well, she said that this is, and again,
24:40
everything we're talking about is in the book.
24:42
She said that community life is difficult.
24:46
But she said, these are her words, it's doubly difficult to get along with proud
24:50
souls. So she told God to give her a deeper faith so that she would always see
24:55
in every sister his holy image.
24:59
She said, you know, she says, give me a deeper faith that I may always see in
25:03
every sister your holy image, which has been engraved in my soul as she was
25:08
weeping to him, you know.
25:11
So she held her tongue. And we know how tough that is. That's tough.
25:15
You know, we may not live in a convent, David, but we live with family,
25:19
or we live with our husband, or we live in a dorm, or we go to work, you know?
25:24
We have to work with those we don't agree with, you know? So she asked Jesus to heal her tongue.
25:29
And in fact, this was, you know, the first Monday of Lent. This was the reflection.
25:34
We should call on Jesus for—this is her saying this—we should call on Jesus
25:39
for help during a conversation. There is need of much divine light at times
25:44
like this in order to speak with prophets for our soul and their soul.
25:49
She said the tongue can kill and commit real murders.
25:54
That's what she said. She said, I asked Jesus fervently to heal my tongue so
25:59
I wouldn't offend neither God nor neighbor by it.
26:02
She said, I want my tongue to praise God without ceasingly, without cease.
26:07
Great out of the faults committed by the tongue. The soul will not attain sanctity
26:11
if it does not keep watch over its tongue.
26:14
We, too, can ask the Lord to heal us from a backbiting tongue,
26:18
a proud tongue, or an unclean tongue, or a lying tongue, a tongue that lies.
26:23
In fact, David, in fact, do you know that that?
26:28
Pope Leo, Pope Leo, during his Lenten message, and I just thought it was so
26:34
different. I just loved it.
26:36
He gave a Lenten message. And guess what he said, what he was inviting us to
26:41
do. And I thought, gosh, this is perfect timing.
26:43
He said, I would like to invite you to a very practical and frequently unappreciated form of abstinence.
26:51
So if you wind up saying, and you can't fast on bread and water,
26:54
this is how you're saying.
26:56
He said, That of refraining from words that offend and hurt our neighbor.
27:01
Let us begin by disarming our language. Just what she was doing.
27:07
Disarming our language, avoiding harsh words. She said she kept her mouth shut.
27:11
And rash judgment. Refraining from slander and speaking ill of those who are
27:16
not present and cannot defend themselves.
27:19
Instead, strive to measure our words, which she did.
27:22
She wanted to see the image of Jesus. This, she said, cultivate kindness and
27:28
respect in our families, among our friends, at work, on social media,
27:32
in political debates, in the media, and in Christian communities.
27:36
In this way, words of hatred will give way to words of peace and hope.
27:40
Just what she was talking about. And what did she do to endure these things, David?
27:46
You know, she received the Eucharist.
27:51
The Eucharist. Power of the Eucharist. Yes. She called it the bread of the strong.
27:56
And Jesus said to her, understand the strength by which you bear sufferings,
28:02
even said this, come from frequent communions.
28:05
So approach this fountain of mercy often to draw with a vessel of trust whatever you need.
28:12
Go to Mass, go to communion. If you can't, what's next?
28:17
The next best thing, and it's in our book, we have a beautiful spiritual communion by Alphonse Slagori.
28:23
Gotcha. So that's how she, you know, how else did she cope?
28:28
Go ahead, I'll let you do something. You had mentioned there that you were saying
28:31
that Jesus told her how to handle the suffering, and you mentioned it was through
28:34
the Eucharist as the primary focus, the primary way to go into handling her suffering.
28:39
Well, what did she say about her own suffering?
28:44
She was keeping quiet, but she still had to endure this. Exactly.
28:49
But she asked Jesus to heal her tongue.
28:53
She went to him, okay? Because she said to him, don't leave me alone in my suffering.
28:59
And Jesus said to her, don't be afraid of what will happen to you.
29:02
I will give you nothing beyond your strength. That applies to us, too.
29:07
You know the power of my grace. let that be enough.
29:10
And he said, you know, you know, he said.
29:13
My daughter, you're silent day-to-day martyrdom.
29:16
All these things that she experienced, that we experience sometimes on a daily
29:21
basis, are literally day-to-day martyrdoms. It's not these big things.
29:26
It's the day-to-day martyrdom.
29:27
He said to, you know, submit to my will, because when you do this,
29:33
you will usher many souls into heaven.
29:36
And then he said, when it deems to you your suffering exceeds your strength.
29:40
Contemplate my wounds. And that's in the book. That's the whole book is on its rules.
29:45
And you will rise above human scorn and judgment.
29:48
Meditate on my passion. It will help you rise above all things.
29:53
It's in my passion that you must seek light and strength.
29:59
And then she went on and said she couldn't steep herself in his passion.
30:03
She said, I complained to the Lord that I wanted to steep myself in his passion,
30:08
but my sufferings wouldn't allow me to. She was just suffering too much.
30:12
And he said to her this, he says, know that I allow you to feel and have more
30:16
profound knowledge of my sufferings. That's a grace for me.
30:19
But when your mind is dimmed and your sufferings are great, it's then you take
30:24
an active part in my passion and I'm conforming you more fully to myself.
30:30
It's your task to submit yourself to my will at such times more than others.
30:35
So when you can't, your sufferings are the ones that, you know, are literally...
30:42
It's your suffering that he accepts. It's your suffering that's conforming to him.
30:47
You don't have to, you know, he's taking that suffering.
30:51
So it's basically saying, people say, I can't pray. I'm suffering so much.
30:55
I can't pray. Well, no, your suffering is the prayer.
30:59
Okay. And what does she say about suffering? This is what she said.
31:02
She said, it's a great grace.
31:04
She said, through suffering, the soul becomes like the Savior.
31:07
In suffering, love becomes crystallized. the greater the suffering,
31:12
the purer the love. And she also added this.
31:15
She said, if the angels were capable of envy, they would envy us humans for two things.
31:21
One is the privilege to receive Holy Communion, and the other is suffering.
31:26
And she went on to say, oh, if only the suffering soul knew how it is loved
31:32
by God, it would die of joy and excess of happiness.
31:37
Someday we will know the value of suffering, but then we will no longer be able
31:41
to suffer. The present moment is ours.
31:45
Well, we're often told, even from a young age, offer it up. Take your suffering, offer it up.
31:51
And the disconnect, if you will, of how does one offer this up?
31:58
How do I dedicate myself, my sufferings to, and how does it make this happen?
32:02
But you've got a clear path here when it comes to what you mentioned here as
32:06
far as the grace and the greater the suffering, the greater the love.
32:11
And that's an understanding we have to come to assess while we're going through
32:17
this. That has to be terribly difficult.
32:19
Well, you know, he said to her, he doesn't give us anything that we can't handle.
32:25
But I mean, David, you and I probably say, well, I'm not sure about that.
32:29
I've been there, done that. You're right.
32:31
You know, and it's not, it's nothing's ever, it's not easy. No, it's not easy.
32:35
So he, he, he, she, she went to him. She went to communion. Communion.
32:40
She prayed. She had intense prayer. One of the biggest things was the chaplet.
32:45
You know, I learned from reading the diary, she didn't have a lot of prayer
32:50
books or special prayers.
32:51
She prayed the chaplet and she prayed the rosary.
32:55
It was pretty simple. You know, she was dedicated to Joseph and St.
32:59
Michael, but it was this chaplet that was so very powerful. And,
33:03
of course, the bread of the strong.
33:05
And, of course, adoration. She adored five minutes, two minutes.
33:09
You know, when we think of adoration, we think of having you to put a whole hour in.
33:13
No, I have a whole section in one of my books. You know, she gave minutes.
33:17
She gave seconds. She stopped by. She stopped, you know, because she was,
33:22
you know, the chaplet was right down.
33:23
And you know what else she did, David? I know I'm veering off here.
33:27
She did spiritual adoration because many people, we have a book, Praying with St.
33:32
Faustina Purvel for Adoration. And I discovered from the saints that,
33:36
and Faustina, her room was right down the hall from the chapel, and she was sick a lot.
33:43
So she turned toward the chapel, wasn't able to go, and what she did was spiritual adoration.
33:50
And you can do that. And that's what the saints did. In fact,
33:53
many saints asked for cells, you know, with a window that faced toward a church,
33:58
and they adored from their chair. They adored from, you know, their room.
34:04
And I know, don't ask me who it is, but I know there was a bishop,
34:08
I'd have to get the details, that was in jail.
34:12
I forget where in China.
34:15
And Nixon wanted him to be released and they negotiated something and he was released.
34:20
And one of the Mary Knoll, I think it was a Mary Knoll I'm not sure,
34:25
don't let me know I just know the bottom line was that he said that they would
34:30
sneak in bread and wine little vials for him to offer masks tiny little things
34:35
and after masks he would face,
34:38
I forget what country he faced in a direction that was hundreds of miles away,
34:44
where he knew that this country was Christian and that there were chapels.
34:49
And he faced that direction, and he did spiritual adoration.
34:54
Wonderful. Wow, that's amazing. It's amazing to be able to do that anywhere.
34:58
Yeah, out my window, literally. Literally, I'm very glad.
35:01
There's like 15 steeples, all church steeples. And I just adore from my window,
35:08
and I send the guardian angel, and I say, go adore, go adore our Lord.
35:12
I wake up, and there he is. So we can spiritually adore as well.
35:17
So suffering, you know, there's a lot more in the book about suffering.
35:22
So, you know, we can spend more time about that, but we got more questions,
35:25
I think. Right, right. So we're going to go ahead and touch on that.
35:27
We're going to take a quick break. I was looking at the clock here.
35:31
And we'll be right back with discussion here with Susan Tassoni and her book,
35:36
Praying with Jesus and Faustina During Lent in the Times of Suffering.
35:41
What a wonderful conversation we're engaged with. I'm so blessed to be able
35:44
to go ahead and do this. We'll be right back with Catholic Conversations.
35:46
I'm your host, David Liptak. Please come back. You're listening to Catholic
35:50
Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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37:07
Welcome back to Catholic Conversations. I'm your host, David Liptak,
37:11
and we are so blessed to go ahead to have Susan Tassoni.
37:14
What a wonderful conversation we're having. She's really delving into the book,
37:18
Praying with Jesus and Faustina during Lent and times of suffering.
37:22
And we're going to pick up right where we left off.
37:24
One of the things we were talking about was how did Jesus tell Faustina how
37:28
to handle her suffering? And I think you were just getting engaged with that, Susan.
37:32
Yes. He taught her to treat trials as, this is what he told her, this is from the diary.
37:38
He taught her to treat trials as a positive opportunity.
37:41
It's not easy. Just remember that. This is not easy.
37:45
But, you know, there are times when you have to take a break.
37:49
There are times, so use your common sense. But he said, you know,
37:52
that's our goal, to treat it as a positive opportunity, to learn love of neighbor.
37:56
Whoever turned to her, she was kind, humble, and polite.
38:01
She overcame her tiredness, her impatience, or that reflex of unwillingness.
38:06
All this as the expression of the will of God. She said, how much of it could
38:11
be offered to God? She was hurt.
38:14
People, the nuns hurt her. She was reproved by her senior nuns.
38:18
They were abrupt to her. They were unjust.
38:21
The instructions that she got from her superiors, they were short and they were
38:26
impatient. It sounds awful.
38:29
She didn't know how to handle her resentment.
38:31
I can only imagine. Yeah, but she didn't complain. She took her complaints to Jesus.
38:36
How many times do we weep to Jesus over a child that's gone the wrong way,
38:42
over a divorce, over a broken friendship?
38:45
We use our common sense. We get help. We go to psychologists.
38:48
We use your common sense. But she went, you know, remember, she was given infused
38:54
grace to handle these two.
38:55
But, you know, so remember, use your common sense as well. You don't want to
38:59
be a rug either. But for her, she prayed in the chapel.
39:03
She had grudges, but she took them to Jesus. And he took those things and transformed
39:08
it into this kindness and concern for others.
39:11
So he taught her not to judge others. This is how she became holy.
39:15
Now, remember, she was given infused extraordinary grace. We have to use our common sense.
39:20
And how do we go through this? Well, you know what I like?
39:25
This is Sister Lucia, David.
39:29
It's in my Praying with the Saints book. She talks about this too.
39:33
All the saints talk about it.
39:34
She said that this is a message that God asked of us.
39:40
In the heart of the message of Fatima, which is really all this stuff is Fatima,
39:45
Laura's Guillermo del, this message is our same, but they're different twists
39:50
given the people of those times.
39:53
Faustina was given to us for this time. So was Fatima. But this is what,
39:57
it's the same thing Lucia said.
39:59
She said, endure uncomplainingly whatever little annoyances we may encounter on our path.
40:04
Sometimes it may be disagreeable, irritating, or an unpleasant word.
40:09
Exactly what she's experiencing.
40:10
It may be a misunderstanding, a reproof, a rejection, or even an act of gratitude.
40:16
It's necessary to know how to endure all things, offering our sacrifice to God
40:21
and letting things drop as if we were deaf, dumb, and blind.
40:26
Repay those with a smile, a kind deed, a favor, forgiving, and loving with our eyes fixed on God.
40:33
And that's what she did. She went to Jesus. the fruit
40:37
of our sacrifices is so that we may see
40:40
better speak with greater certainty and
40:43
hear the voice of God well Lucia adds
40:46
it's often most difficult because of our human nature but it also is the one
40:52
most pleasing to God and meritorious for ourselves so you do the look what Leo
40:58
just said Pope Leo do these things you know there are times when you do have
41:03
to say something but there's many times,
41:05
Well, you just don't. And you know what?
41:08
There's power in that. Hold your tongue.
41:11
Right. For sure. And in today's day and age, it's so easy just to lash out and reflex, no less.
41:19
All the time. Everything in every way. It's horrible.
41:23
I just love the message. Yes. You know, if you don't have anything to say nice,
41:27
then don't say anything.
41:28
That's wise wisdom there.
41:31
Yes. You know, keep your mouth shut because, you know, you gain grace from that.
41:37
And, you know, if you've ever noticed, when you say less, you have more power.
41:42
And people like you, actually. Not that that's your goal is to be liked.
41:47
Your goal is, you know, be even keeled. There's a time to hold them and there's a time to fold them.
41:52
Okay? And there's a time to sacrifice, you know, especially at home.
41:56
I tell you. You know, that's—go ahead.
41:58
Yeah, well, you're touching on the circumstance now. We're kind of bringing today's day into it.
42:04
The season of Lent—
42:06
But especially in our times, in our suffering today, because as I just mentioned,
42:10
there's so many things that are being bantered around that are offensive without
42:16
much thought and without much consideration.
42:18
And they're very hurtful in a lot of instances, or we're just being categorized by our faith.
42:25
And we can be ostracized just like Faustina was, just because we're Catholic.
42:29
And we have to go in and mind our mouth and mind our tongue and love our enemies.
42:36
And mind your business, too.
42:38
You know, sometimes you think, I knew somebody that was, you know,
42:42
she was just trying to correct the mother because her kids were running around
42:46
the altar. Well, you're not perfect either.
42:49
It's not your business. There's times when you don't interfere. Stay out of it.
42:53
You know, you're not the, you know, you're not the savior. here.
42:57
I mean, if the kids were running up the altar and standing, that's different.
43:00
But there are times when it's not your business.
43:03
In fact, in my book, Jesus Speaks to Faustina and You, there's a sin called
43:09
idle curiosity, too. Really?
43:12
Yes. Idle curiosity is meaning that you're just, you know, you're curious for
43:16
the sake of being curious, which is none of your business.
43:21
There's some good stuff in the apples, let me tell you. But yes,
43:24
so we have plenty of opportunities. And you know what? You know what they are.
43:27
You know what they are. We're out of control. That's the problem.
43:32
Well, elaborate a bit, if you would, on this particular book and for us readers,
43:38
if you will, about the focus on the passion.
43:42
Yes. I was working with the,
43:49
with a diary for six years. So I was really immersed in it for,
43:54
you know, it was just part of my daily life for several years.
43:58
And when I did this book and when I did the other books, this is what I discovered.
44:03
What does he emphasize? What did Jesus emphasize when he talks about his passion?
44:07
You know what it is? What's that?
44:09
His love for us.
44:12
We have to understand, you know, you know, the need for mercy and we have to look at what Jesus did.
44:19
You know, it's his love for us is the most powerful sign of God's love for us.
44:25
Jesus said, remember my passion. And if you don't believe my words,
44:30
at least believe my wounds.
44:32
And he said, again, I came down from heaven out of love for you.
44:35
I live for you. I died for you. I created the heavens for you before I made the world.
44:42
I loved you with the love you are experiencing today and throughout the centuries.
44:47
My love will never change. And he went on to say, if my death has not convinced
44:53
you of my love, what will?
44:55
And we need to appreciate his love. And that's one of the things that jumped
45:01
out at me over those six years, over and over and over again, is his love for us.
45:07
He loves us more than anybody else, and he loves us more than anybody can.
45:12
And this was the ultimate proof of his love for us.
45:16
Even while we were still in sin, he loved us.
45:19
So what I did was, what I found in the diary, David, there were,
45:24
I called them the love passages.
45:26
There were so many passages about his love.
45:30
And in fact, Faustina said to him one day in the diary, she said,
45:36
I was thinking of you last night.
45:38
And he turned around and said to her, well, I was thinking of you.
45:41
And she said, like a woman, well, what were you thinking of?
45:44
He said to her, I was thinking about how you were going to be with me for all
45:49
eternity, that we were in God's mind.
45:53
Now, this is Benedict. He said, each of us is a result of a thought of God.
45:59
Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, and each of us is necessary.
46:05
And he also said this. He said that we were never not in God's mind. We always were.
46:14
Well, and from our perspective, human aspect, that's tough to kind of comprehend.
46:20
It's hard to go ahead and put to fathom that always was, always were.
46:25
And when you come to the point of everlasting love for us, again,
46:32
coming back to the human capacity, there are people that we truly love and there
46:36
are people that we don't truly love.
46:38
And yet the good Lord loves all of them. And that's hard to wrap your head around.
46:43
Well, his love is, he loves us more than anybody else. And he loves us more than anybody can.
46:50
And he made us to be with him.
46:53
That's what he wanted. And he also gave us a mission. We all have a mission.
46:58
Everybody has a mission. Well, how do you find out which mission is? You pray.
47:01
You pray that, you know, he'll take care of the rest. Not to worry,
47:05
but, you know, but you have to understand and appreciate. There were so many
47:09
love passages that I put them in both books at the end of every month.
47:14
This love that is, I think it was Catherine of Santa said, he's crazy in love
47:20
with us, that he didn't have to make us.
47:23
He's self-sufficient and he didn't need us. But there was something about you,
47:27
David, and John that started this station and all the listeners that he was attracted to.
47:34
And he wanted you to be with him for all eternity. You know,
47:38
we're not the most talented, we're not the most handsome, but there was something
47:42
about you that he wanted to give life to, to have you with him for all eternity.
47:48
What a blessed concept. I mean, it's so reassuring and hopeful.
47:53
Those are his words. If you try to get across the whole diary,
47:56
it's about his love for us.
47:57
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. You know, in the Constitution of Faustina,
48:02
the nuns have a constitution.
48:05
Okay. And in their constitution, because I read it, they have to ponder frequently
48:12
what God did and how he suffered for us through his passion.
48:18
So Faustina came to know the mystery of his mercy.
48:21
She said, all our lives are immersed in this divine mercy, this love, every day.
48:27
And most profoundly in the sacraments of confession and the Eucharist.
48:33
Our mercy, because he's asking us to be merciful as well, like he is,
48:37
deepens with the sacraments.
48:39
So, again, it's pointing, you know, it goes back to the sacraments,
48:43
it goes back to the Eucharist, and that's what made her holy.
48:46
I think I said enough of that. Okay.
48:50
Well, you brought up another point of this, too, as far as some of your sacraments,
48:55
but you also have a chapter in there on confession.
48:59
Oh, yes. But, you know, throughout the diary, David, I kept seeing the tribunal of my mercy.
49:06
I was saying the fountain of mercy.
49:08
And what is what? What am I missing something? It's confession.
49:13
He calls confession the tribunal of mercy. He calls confession the fountain
49:17
of mercy. He calls confession the miracle of miracles.
49:21
And Faustina depended on confession so she could live out a vocation and spread
49:25
the message of divine mercy. So confession for her was a lifeline.
49:30
So, you know, why we go to, in fact, I don't have it in front of me,
49:35
but in the book, she even shares how to make a good confession.
49:39
But the words of Jesus, he says, when you go to confession, we build peace in our lives.
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And if you remember Mother Angelica during her shows, she went on to say,
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she kept saying over and over and over again, go to confession, go to confession.
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And he shares the beauty and the value of confession. And he's very displeased
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if you don't go to confession, because confession, you know,
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is the fountain of mercy. It's the key.
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Confession is the key that opens up this fountain of mercy. So go regularly.
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It might sound easy, you know, but it sounds too easy, I should say.
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It sounds too easy. There's no secrets. There's no hard labor.
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He understands that it's hard to go to confession because we don't like to admit
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our faults and hard to acknowledge our failures.
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We can feel ashamed or embarrassed or unworthy, but you have to,
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you know, if you find yourself staying away from confession,
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remember this, it isn't a punishment, it's a grace.
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It's a grace. It's the way we experience the mercy of God.
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So confess your sins and rest in His forgiveness for your sake and the sake of the world.
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And what it does, it infuses grace. It infuses grace. You just go to,
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it's not just going to confession and your sins are absolved.
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You're given extraordinary graces not to sin again.
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It shaves off that anger and all those bad habits that we have.
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So it's confession is like, it's the conversion. It's the sacrament of conversion as well.
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It helps to change you, you know, to do God's will.
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In fact, if you really, I went to the catechism.
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I was speechless, David, what I read about the graces that you get just by going to confession.
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So this is the perfect time during Lent to go to confession.
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And remember what happens, you know, in confession, the guilt is removed.
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The stain is still there. How do you remove the stain?
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By the actual spiritual, you know, the spiritual works of mercy,
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the corporal works of mercy.
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You have to remove that stain. It's like a little boy, if he,
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you know, broke a window.
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Well, you know, he said he was sorry, but he has to fix the damage,
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okay? He has to pray for the damage.
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Well, that's what we're doing. That stain is there. But on Divine Mercy Sunday,
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on Divine Mercy Sunday, if you've gone to confession, anytime during Lent,
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anytime during Lent, because they expanded it, and you receive communion on Divine Mercy Sunday,
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that we are given this extraordinary grace that the stain that's left over is removed.
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Everything is removed. Your soul is the way it was the day of your baptism.
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In fact, who died? Who died on that day? Wow.
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John Paul. He died on divine mercy Sunday. Sunday, right. Yeah,
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and he went straight to heaven. I'm sure he did.
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Well, either way, we can probably be assured that he did, because that extraordinary grace is available.
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So take advantage of that, but go to confession. It's nothing to be afraid of.
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The devil is more afraid of you going to confession than not going to confession.
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So I think there were three words that I think came from Faustina.
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She said to be sincere, she said to be humble, and to be obedient,
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meaning whatever he—I would assume that meant that whatever he gave her,
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you know, any kind of penance.
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But she was determined to strive for sanctity, and she derived the fruit from confession.
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Yeah, her sins would be forgiven, as ours will, But she was pushing for spiritual
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growth by way of confession.
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And that's what I'm trying to point out. You know, she wanted her personal best
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to get better. And she knew that took deliberate effort.
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And where she got the grace was that confession.
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She said that she called to mind the passion of Jesus in each confession to
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arouse her heart to contrition.
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Well, certainly if you're focusing on the passion, it puts you in the right
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frame of mind, I would think. Watch the passion. Watch the movie of The Passion. Oh, my.
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That'll get a hold of it, yes. Yeah, that'll, that'll, that doesn't move you,
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you know, I don't know what will.
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Well, Susan, any last thoughts here? We're coming up to the conclusion here.
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What would you, passing thought, you'd like to go ahead and share this Lenten
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season for all our listeners here?
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I would say, I would say, don't be afraid, you know, I would say,
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don't be afraid, because how many times we've heard that, you know,
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he loves us, he wants us to trust him,
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pray the chaplet, go to confession, the sacramental life gives us all these
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graces, you know, he's waiting for us in eternity, your sufferings,
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all our sufferings, as you say, offer them up, how do you offer them up?
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Well, what I do every day, I just say the morning offering, okay,
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I say the morning offering.
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And then I just go about my business. I try to figure out, you know,
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but, you know, those little things that we are given challenges throughout the
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day, you could either say something or not say something. There we go.
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So, you know, so there's time like, you know, I'm going to offer this up and
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keep my mouth shut. I'm not going to say anything.
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So, you know, just, you know, do your very best, you know, say the stations
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of the cross, you know, bring him help.
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This is the time that we're helping him save souls, okay?
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She prayed, in fact, so she prayed for the holy souls during Lent as well.
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We can offer our trials, our struggles, we can merit, we can offer our masses.
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And she said that the trials and struggles must run their full course in us
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before we go to our homeland. Amen.
55:14
Amen. That's fantastic. Susan, thank you so very much for blessing us with your
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kind words, your voluminous information when it comes to purgatory, as well as Faustina.
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We definitely want to go ahead and make sure that your people or folks are aware
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of the fact that you can go ahead and pick up your book on Praying with Jesus
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and Faustina during Lent in the Times of Suffering.
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You can go to get that through EWTN, your website, and I'm sure at any bookstores,
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opportunities, and certainly online to go and accommodate your desire for that particular book.
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Do tune in to check out Susan's website because you'll be available to look
55:49
at many of the other offers.
55:50
She has many award-winning books, and she mentioned the book on her child,
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winner of the five CMA Awards, New Friends, Now and Forever.
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So I'd like to go ahead and close with a prayer, and I think Susan would appreciate
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this. This is the prayer of St. Gertrude the Great.
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In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, amen.
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Eternal Father, I offer you the most precious blood of the divine Jesus, your son Jesus.
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In union with the masses said throughout the world today for all the holy souls
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in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church,
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and for those in my home and in my family.
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Amen. Amen. And remember what Jesus said, join your little sacrifices to his passion.
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He said the smallest sacrifice finds great value in his eyes.
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And remember one last thing, have Gregorian masses offered, you know,
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for your deceased loved ones during Lent, put them in your will.
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Pius Union of St. Joseph is one of the greatest places you can go to have these arranged. Wonderful.
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Susan, thank you once again. We certainly appreciate your time,
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and thank you for tuning in to Catholic Conversations. Have a blessed day.
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Thank you. Happy Lenting. You've been listening to Catholic Conversations.
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