Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Being Catholic #389: Where Does Consciousness Come From? Quantum Minds, Microtubules & Faith

Transcript

Being Catholic #389: Where Does Consciousness Come From? Quantum Minds, Microtubules & Faith · Catholic Spirit Radio

0:00
This is Being Catholic with Bob Johnston on Catholic Spirit Radio.
0:06
Hi, this is Bob Johnston, and you're listening to Being Catholic,
0:10
right here on Catholic Spirit Radio,
0:13
89.5 FM and 92.5 FM in good old McLean County in Bloomington Normal,
0:20
88.3 in Pontiac, 97.1 in Lincoln 89.3 in Morris Joliet 89.1 in DeKalb Sycamore
0:31
88.9 in the Rockford area Marengo,
0:35
Harvard and Beloit 94.5 in Rockford proper 88.3 in Clinton and Champaign 90.5
0:43
in Charleston covering much of Central and Northern Illinois and growing thanks
0:48
to you We're going to have a great show for you today I'm here with my wife, Lynn.
0:54
Remember always that we're brought to you by you and depend on your donations
0:59
for this radio station and all of the radio shows that are brought to you.
1:04
They are brought by you through your donations. And we hope you'll make a donation today.
1:10
To make a donation, you can go to our website and askcatholicspiritradio.com.
1:15
Again, askcatholicspiritradio.com. And any donation, large or small,
1:20
will always be appreciated.
1:22
And go ahead and make that donation now.
1:25
And we're going to talk a little bit today, I guess, as an approach to Halloween.
1:30
We're going to talk next week about Halloween.
1:33
I've got a good article on, a complete article on Halloween,
1:37
going back quite a ways of all the various things about Halloween.
1:42
But for today, we're going to talk about a couple of articles that I've wanted
1:46
to do and mentioned a few weeks ago and really have not had a chance to get around to.
1:51
And that is, where does consciousness come from? We were talking about that
1:56
a little bit, and I've got a couple of good articles here on that subject in
2:00
the human mind. How do we get consciousness?
2:03
And that's sort of a mystery, and we'll talk about sort of maybe the mystery of the universe itself.
2:09
And that's a good pre-approach to Halloween, I think, because Halloween is sort
2:13
of a mysterious season, at least it used to be. And we'll talk more about that next week.
2:18
Before we start, I'm going to turn this over to my wife, Lynn,
2:22
and see if she has anything to say. and then we'll get into talking about where
2:26
consciousness comes from.
2:28
Yes, and to be conscious is to really appreciate this weather we've had.
2:33
It's just been gorgeous fall. The leaves haven't really turned because we haven't
2:39
had the cold weather and no moisture here in central Illinois.
2:45
We're kind of in a drought, but it's still beautiful out.
2:52
I guess it's going to come to
2:54
an end maybe this weekend with the rain and storms we're supposed to get.
2:58
But I'm enjoying this for sure. I'm looking forward to talking about this consciousness.
3:05
It's really an interesting topic.
3:08
Yes, it is. And it does relate to our Catholic religion because the idea of
3:14
consciousness, where does it come from?
3:16
And in the article, we touch on the idea that our minds, and maybe not even
3:23
our minds really, but is something in our brains in touch somehow with the universe?
3:30
And is the universe itself permeated by God?
3:35
And so these are some of the questions and the mysteries that we'll address here.
3:39
And I think we really need to rekindle a sense of the mystery again that I think
3:46
a lot of the modern world has lost and we take too many things scientifically
3:50
for granted that just may not be so.
3:53
And I think this article here are actually two articles, part one and part two,
3:58
we're going to read both, touch on that. So we'll get into that.
4:02
It's a good explanation of why maybe people are falling away from believing in God.
4:09
It could be. You know, that lack of the respect for something that's mysterious or it's a mystery.
4:18
They're too scientific, and if you can't do it their way, then forget it.
4:24
But the title of this article, this comes from the Epoch Times newspaper.
4:29
And it's in the September 2nd edition that it's coming from.
4:34
The title of the article is Where Does Consciousness Come From?
4:38
And we're going to go ahead and read now from part one.
4:40
It says, Scientists tirelessly seek the brain source of consciousness,
4:45
yet its true origins remain mysterious.
4:49
And so, we'll read from this. It says, when medical theories can't solve a mystery,
4:55
physics might step in with a plot twist, and particularly quantum physics.
5:01
And it says here, as a neurosurgeon, I was taught that the brain creates consciousness, said Dr.
5:08
Eben Alexander, who wrote in detail about his experiences with consciousness
5:13
while in a deep coma in 2008.
5:16
Many doctors and biomedical students may have been taught the same about consciousness.
5:22
However, scientists are still debating whether that theory holds true.
5:26
Imagine a child observing an elephant for the first time. Light reflects off
5:31
the animal and enters the child's eyes.
5:34
Retinal photoreceptors in the back of the eyes convert this light into electrical
5:40
signals, which travel through the optic nerve to the brain's cortex.
5:45
This forms vision or visual consciousness. How do these electrical signals miraculously
5:53
transform into a vivid mental image?
5:56
How do they turn into the child's thoughts, followed by an emotional reaction?
6:02
Wow, the elephant is so big!
6:05
The question of how the brain generates subjective perceptions,
6:10
including images, feelings, and experiences, was coined by Australian cognitive
6:16
scientist David Chalmers in 1995 as, quote, the hard problem.
6:23
As it turns out, having a brain may not be a prerequisite for consciousness.
6:30
In other words, having a brain may not be a prerequisite for consciousness.
6:34
That is a mystery in itself.
6:37
Brainless, but not mindless. The Lancet recorded a case of a French man diagnosed
6:44
with postnatal hydrocephalus,
6:47
that is, excess cerebrospinal fluid on or around the brain at the age of six months.
6:55
Despite his condition, he grew up healthy, became a married father of two children,
7:01
and worked as a civil servant.
7:03
When he was 44 years old, he went to the doctor because of a mild weakness in his left leg.
7:10
The doctor scanned his head thoroughly and discovered that his brain tissue
7:14
was almost entirely gone.
7:17
Most of the space in his skull was filled with fluid, with only a thin sheet of brain tissue left.
7:25
The brain was virtually absent, wrote the lead author of the case study, Dr.
7:30
Lionel Fuehler of the Department of Neurology, Hospital de la Timon in Marseille, France.
7:38
The man had been living a normal life and had no problem seeing,
7:42
feeling, or perceiving things.
7:44
The normal brain cortex is responsible for sense and movement,
7:48
and the hippocampus is responsible for memory.
7:52
Hydrocephalus patients lose or have significantly less volume of these brain
7:59
regions, yet they can still perform related functions.
8:04
Even without substantial brains, these people can have above-average cognitive function.
8:11
And let me turn over here and get to the next section here. Well,
8:15
thanks for it. Pardon? Above-average. Above-average.
8:19
So what we think we need, the brain doesn't seem to be the case.
8:24
Professor John Lorber, 1915 to 1996, a neurologist from the University of Sheffield,
8:33
analyzed more than 600 cases of children with hydrocephalus.
8:37
Of these, he found that half of about 60 children with the most severe type
8:42
of hydrocephalus and cerebral atrophy had an IQ higher than 100 and lived normal lives.
8:52
Among them, one university student had excellent grades, a first-class honors
8:57
degree in mathematics, an IQ of 126, and was socially normal.
9:03
This masked genius's brain was only one millimeter thick, while an average person's
9:09
is usually four and a half centimeters thick, 44 times larger.
9:14
Imagine that, 44 times larger. And yet, his brain was functioning at the IQ
9:19
level of 126, and he was very, very good in math.
9:23
Lorber's findings were published in the journal Science in 1980 with the headline,
9:28
Is Your Brain Really Necessary?
9:31
The important thing about Lorber is that he's done a long series of systematic
9:37
scanning rather than just dealing with anecdotes.
9:41
Patrick Wall, 1925-2001, professor of anatomy at University College London,
9:49
was quoted as saying in an article by Robert Lewin, published in Science in 1981,
9:58
discussing Lerner's article, The cases of people without brain challenge the
10:04
conventional teachings that brain structure is the basis for generating consciousness.
10:09
Are our brains weighing about three pounds with roughly two billion neurons
10:14
connected by about 500 trillion synopses, the real source of consciousness?
10:20
And just imagine two billion neurons and 500 trillion synopses.
10:26
It makes a three-pound brain, makes AI, you know, look like a biker.
10:32
Some scientists have proposed that deep and invisible structures in the brain
10:37
explain normal cognitive functions, even with severe hydrocephalus.
10:43
These structures may not be easily visible on conventional brain scans or to the naked eye.
10:51
However, the fact that they are not readily apparent doesn't mean they don't
10:56
exist or aren't important for brain function.
10:58
For hundreds of years, neurologists have assumed that all that is dear to them
11:04
is performed by the cortex.
11:06
But it may well be that the deep structures in the brain carry out many of the
11:11
functions assumed to be the sole province of the cortex, Wall wrote in the 1981 article.
11:19
These unknown deep structures are undoubtedly important for many functions,
11:24
neurologist Norman Geschwind wrote,
11:27
in 1926 to 1984, from Beth Israel Hospital, affiliated with Harvard University,
11:35
wrote in the 1981 article,
11:38
furthermore, the deep structures are almost certainly more important than is currently thought.
11:45
David Boucher, a professor of neurophysiology at the University of Liverpool in the UK,
11:53
wrote in the same article, the source of consciousness may exist in realms we've yet to explore.
12:01
When medical theories can't solve a mystery, physics might step in with a plot
12:07
twist, and particularly quantum physics.
12:12
To understand consciousness, we can't just look at the neurons.
12:16
Dr. Stuart Hammerhoff, director of the Center for Consciousness Studies of the
12:21
University of of Arizona, told the Epoch Times.
12:25
Even single-celled organisms, such as paramecium,
12:29
demonstrate purposeful behavior, such as swimming, avoiding obstacles,
12:35
mating, and significantly learning without having a single synopsy or being
12:40
part of a neural network.
12:42
According to Hamroff, These intelligent, possibly conscious behaviors are mediated
12:49
by microtubules inside the paramecium.
12:53
The same microtubules are found in brain neurons and all animal and plant cells.
13:01
Microtubules, as the name suggests, are tiny tubes inside cells.
13:07
They play essential roles in cell division, movement, and intercellular transport
13:13
and appear to be the information carriers in neurons.
13:20
The proteins that make up microtubules.
13:25
Are the most prevalent or abundant proteins in the whole brain,
13:29
Amaroff told the Epoch Times.
13:31
He hypothesizes that microtubules are key players in human consciousness.
13:37
Because when you look inside neurons, you see all these microtubules,
13:42
and they're in a periodic lattice, which is perfect for information processing
13:47
and vibrations, Amaroff said.
13:50
Because of their properties, microtubules function like antennas.
13:55
Hamroff says they serve as quantum devices to transduce consciousness from quantum
14:01
dimension, from a quantum dimension.
14:05
Now we're getting into some of the mystery. British physicist,
14:09
mathematician, and Nobel laureate Roger Penrose and Hamroff hypothesized a theory
14:15
that quantum processes generate consciousness.
14:19
Quantum refers to tiny units of energy or matter at a microscopic level.
14:27
Its unique features can help us understand many things that current science cannot explain.
14:33
In simple terms, microtubules act as a bridge between the quantum world and our consciousness.
14:43
They take quantum signals, amplify them, organize them, and somehow,
14:49
through processes we don't fully understand, turn them into the feeling,
14:53
perceptions, and thoughts that make up our conscious awareness.
14:58
Microtubules can explain bewildering facts about the brain.
15:02
Hameroff posits that the brains of individuals born with hydrocephalus can adapt
15:08
as their microtubules control neuroplasticity and reorganize their brain tissue.
15:15
So over time, the microtubules in that brain adapt and rearrange themselves
15:21
to sustain consciousness and cognition.
15:24
Therefore, according to Hameroff, our brains serve as information processors
15:29
receiving signals from the universe and forming them into consciousness.
15:35
And there is the mystery.
15:36
The brain, according to this theory, receives signals from the universe itself.
15:43
And as it picks up and transmits these signals into consciousness,
15:49
this is what forms, in a sense, our consciousness.
15:53
And it's not the cortex to the brain at all, but the whole mystery here is that
15:58
the brain is some kind of an antenna.
16:01
These microtubules are some kind of an antenna that actually receives signals
16:06
from the universe itself.
16:08
And so there is something of intelligence and consciousness that pervades the universe itself.
16:15
And we're going to have to stop here and take a break, so stay with us. We'll be right back.
16:18
You've been listening to Being Catholic with Bob Johnston On Catholic Spirit
16:22
Radio, tired of your phone bill supporting who knows what?
16:26
ICatholic Mobile is a 5G provider that supports what matters to you.
16:32
With iCatholic Mobile, every call, text, and even that endless group chat.
16:39
Helps support the mission of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
16:43
It's a network that connects you to what's good for both your soul and your wallet.
16:49
More information is available at iCatholicMobile.com.
16:53
ICatholic Mobile underwrites Catholic Spirit Radio. Miracles, miracles, miracles.
17:00
Yes, with God, all things are possible. How can we not be astounded when we
17:05
think of the miracles told in the Bible?
17:07
The Eucharistic miracle that happens on the altar during the consecration at
17:11
every Mass, and the miracles that transform and save people we know.
17:15
Hi, this is Debbie Giorgiani from EWTN. The topic of miracles is so stirring
17:20
that we chose that theme for the Catholic Spirit Radio Network's Fall Appeal
17:25
this October 29th through the 31st.
17:28
When you listen, your hearts and minds will be awed by the facts and real stories of miracles.
17:33
We've invited extraordinary guests to join us. You won't want to miss a single
17:38
one, October 29th through the 31st, exclusively on this radio station.
17:43
As you listen, I know that your appreciation of the value of Catholic Spirit
17:47
Radio will be reaffirmed.
17:49
This network is a tremendous asset, with 12 stations reaching communities like
17:54
yours throughout Illinois and Wisconsin.
17:56
Catholic Spirit Radio is a
17:57
listener-supported nonprofit, so your donations are what make it possible.
18:02
Please support this radio station in a big way. Mail them a fall appeal check.
18:07
Call during the broadcasts, or go online and make a donation.
18:11
During these days, every donor gets a special thank you gift,
18:14
and we promise to pray for a miracle or need just for you.
18:18
On top of that, we have hourly food gift cards to give away,
18:21
and maybe you'll become the owner of one of the two grand giveaways.
18:25
We're excited to share this time with you. Here are the dates again,
18:29
October 29th through the 31st, 7 a.m. to 6 p.m.
18:33
Miracles. With God, all things are possible.
18:37
Tune in to our radio station or watch the live feed on your Facebook page.
18:41
Hear facts and stories about miracles and feel the excitement as we join together
18:46
to support the Catholic Spirit Radio Network and its evangelization mission.
18:50
God bless you. Welcome to our new listeners in Charleston, Illinois.
18:54
Tune in on 90.5 FM radio or use our app, Catholic Spirit Talk Radio,
18:59
or go online to catholicspiritradio.com or ask Alexa.
19:02
Charleston, we're so glad you're part of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
19:06
De Caloras, the Bloomington Normal Curcio is celebrating its 50th year anniversary.
19:11
All Cristalistas are invited to help celebrate this significant milestone on
19:15
Saturday, October 25th at Holy Trinity Church here in Bloomington.
19:18
The celebration will begin with
19:20
Mass at 530, followed by a light meal and fellowship in the parish hall.
19:24
For questions, check the Cristalista section of the website,
19:27
bncurcio.org, or email curcio, bnil at gmail.com.
19:38
Thank you.
19:45
Bob Johnston, and you're listening to Being Catholic right here on Catholic Spirit Radio.
19:50
We're talking about how the brain or how humans form consciousness.
19:56
And one of the theories that we just talked about is that somehow or another
20:02
in our brains, there are these microtubules, and they pick up signals,
20:06
actually quantum signals from the universe itself.
20:10
And they trans somehow that we don't really understand. And they transmit these
20:15
signals into consciousness, something far different than AI does and far different
20:19
than anything else does.
20:21
And it seems like that would be the case in all living things to a certain extent.
20:27
But in human beings, it would be carried out to a very high degree,
20:31
a very high process of picking up signals.
20:34
The question is, is that where in the universe are these signals coming from?
20:39
It seems then that the universe is pervaded with intelligence.
20:43
And if that's the case, then all of the understandings that religion has had
20:49
over the years, and especially maybe the Catholic religion, about God make a lot of sense.
20:56
That there is something that pervades the whole universe with intelligence.
21:01
And human beings can pick it up to a very high degree.
21:05
And that's where our intelligence and our consciousness and our understanding
21:09
of what's going on, Everything comes from in the universe.
21:14
It goes on here. It says, The brain processes information across multiple scales,
21:20
each vibrating at different frequencies.
21:22
Brain waves oscillate slowly at 5 tenths to 100 hertz.
21:29
Individual neurons fire faster at 500 to 1,000 Hz.
21:34
Inside neurons, microtubules vibrate much quicker in the megahertz range.
21:40
At the tiniest quantum scale, frequencies reach incredibly high levels,
21:47
theoretically up to 10 to 43 Hz.
21:51
Other scientists are also using alternative quantum theories to explain mental activities.
21:59
A study published in Physical Review, E, shows that vibrations in lipid molecules
22:06
within the myelin sheath can create pairs of quantum entangled photons.
22:15
It suggests that this quantum entanglement may help synchronize brain activity,
22:20
providing insights into consciousness.
22:22
But again, remember, all of this has to be done in order to pick up something
22:28
that is already out there in the universe that the brain can pick up.
22:33
And that is already out there is what our consciousness is.
22:38
In other words, there is an intelligence already out there that we somehow pick
22:43
up and translate into the pictures that we see, into the ideas that we have,
22:48
into the understanding of the world around us that we have, and into, most importantly,
22:54
the conscious understanding of our own selves.
22:57
In other words, the idea that we're self-aware.
23:02
And this is what, of course, we don't have at all in AI.
23:06
Rather than a computer of simple neurons, the brain is a quantum orchestra because
23:13
you have resonances and harmony and solutions over different frequencies,
23:19
much like you do in music.
23:21
In other words, it seems in the brain,
23:25
these tubules and neurons and so forth do a very strange and complex dance to
23:34
the universe itself and transmit information in that musical dance that they do.
23:41
And so, Hamerton said, and so he says, I think consciousness is more like music
23:48
than it is a computation.
23:50
Sort of reminds you then of that, what was the movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind? Yeah.
23:56
And the aliens tried to communicate with music.
24:01
Right, right. And maybe that movie was closer to the truth than they thought.
24:06
Yeah. Than they realized. It's true.
24:09
It says here, science is always evolving.
24:13
The study of consciousness is still an area of active research and debate in
24:19
neuroscience and philosophy.
24:20
However, each new discovery opens up new possibilities.
24:25
As we continue to explore these mysteries, let us remain curious and open-minded.
24:31
And so that's the end of the first part. Article 1, we'll get over to Article
24:37
2. But what do you think of that?
24:39
It's pretty amazing. And you think of it, though, where does this consciousness
24:45
or whatever, where does it come from?
24:48
There's got to be a source somewhere outside of the body, and it's got to be what we think of as God.
24:59
That's what it seems to be saying. You know, it comes from the universe itself.
25:03
That's as far as the scientists will go here in the paper. But if it comes from
25:07
the universe itself, then are we saying that the universe itself is conscious?
25:12
And if it is, I mean, if it's a consciousness, then it's a being.
25:17
Right. And then it has to be, like you say, we're talking about the mind of God here.
25:24
And that's the whole idea of religion, especially the Catholic religion,
25:29
is that we are in touch with the mind of God.
25:34
You know, and this is what we mean by spirituality, where we're spiritually
25:38
in touch with the mind of God.
25:40
And if there is the mind of God in the universe, we also have the idea of the demonic, too, do we not?
25:49
Well, yeah, they go hand in hand, don't they? And so, I mean,
25:52
this idea of the demonic of picking up the wrong signals, we need to talk about that as well.
25:58
And maybe we can, when we get into Halloween, we can talk about the mystery
26:02
of Halloween and how Halloween was celebrated.
26:04
And maybe Halloween itself touches on things, mysteries and so forth,
26:09
that are actually deeper, more mysterious, and closer to truths and so forth
26:15
than we really give it credit for.
26:17
And maybe people in earlier times gave it more credit than we have.
26:22
And maybe we should be giving it as much credit as they gave.
26:26
And the fact is that there are things in this universe, you know,
26:30
that, Horatio, that your philosophy has never dreamt of, you know, to quote Hamlet.
26:39
So this is a very, very interesting thing. And we know, for example,
26:44
that you can make artificial intelligence, you can have algorithms,
26:49
you can have electrons and so forth, and they simply do not.
26:54
Come anywhere near to attaining self-awareness or what we would call consciousness
27:00
and emotions and feelings and so forth.
27:03
And so all of those things that religion deals with, suddenly when you start
27:08
reading this and seeing what this is like, become far more true,
27:14
believable, and rational than modern man gives them credit for, don't you think?
27:19
Well, the answer would be a logical conclusion, wouldn't it? Exactly.
27:24
And so, it's not at all irrational to believe that when the idea of God is rejected,
27:34
when we become a godless society and try to wipe out God from our spiritual
27:41
and so forth understanding and reduce everything to mere scientific fact, First of all,
27:48
we made the mistake of equating the cortex, equating the same thing as AI with
27:54
our intelligence and our understanding of the universe, and it's not at all.
27:59
We made a huge mistake there.
28:02
And if we made a mistake there, how many other mistakes have we made and how
28:06
much more does religion have to explain than we're giving it credit for? Right, right.
28:13
These are things that we need to deal with and take seriously.
28:16
And the other thing is, is that when we don't deal with these things,
28:21
how much of the demonic are we opening up our minds to with not having,
28:27
you know, we've been warned about these kinds of things, and yet we don't take
28:32
these warnings seriously.
28:33
We think somehow or another science has explained them all the way,
28:36
and it doesn't seem that science has explained them all the way at all.
28:41
No, because to know God, you have to really know science.
28:48
Really, there are things like this. You can't come to know God,
28:55
The unknowable—well, I don't know where I'm going with this,
28:59
I guess, but the thought just crossed my mind.
29:01
Didn't Thomas Aquinas teach to have knowledge is to know God?
29:07
I believe so. In other words, we don't have to be afraid of knowledge. No.
29:12
And the second question we have here when we get into the second part and deal
29:16
with it, it says, where does consciousness come from?
29:20
And that's what we've been dealing with now, where does consciousness come from?
29:23
But the big question is also is consciousness does not go to the grave, so where does it go?
29:30
In other words, when we die, where does this consciousness go?
29:34
If the universe is filled with consciousness and our brains pick it up,
29:38
do somehow or another when we die, the consciousness goes back to the universe
29:41
and we are no longer part of it?
29:43
Or do we survive that in one way or another?
29:47
And if we live the wrong kind of life and if we don't live a life of spirituality
29:52
according to the teachings of religion,
29:55
do we somehow or another open
29:59
ourselves up to a very dangerous situation of a form of consciousness controlled
30:06
by what's been called Satan or the devil or whatever else you want to call it
30:13
or evil thoughts or a bad part of consciousness.
30:16
I mean, it gives rise to all of these things. And does this consciousness somehow
30:21
manifest itself sometimes in other ways such as ghosts and so forth?
30:25
I mean, the church has always been open to all of these things.
30:29
And we have, like I say, Shakespeare's play, you know, and Hamlet is open to all of these things.
30:36
And modern man seems to have closed the book on these, that somehow this is
30:42
all superstition, and now we're beginning to realize this may not be superstition at all.
30:47
And our understanding of the universe has been lacking, and we need to be open
30:54
to a greater understanding of what's going on in this universe than we have.
30:58
In other words, there's more to heaven and earth to the ratio than your philosophy
31:02
has ever dreamt of. Good one, yeah.
31:06
So we're going to start here. We're going to read part two. Where does consciousness come from?
31:10
And the question here in part two, not only where does it come from,
31:13
but after death, where does it go?
31:16
Goes on here and it says, quote, when he hugged me, I could feel my son,
31:21
Jeffrey's mother recounted. He was there.
31:24
When Jerry was 16 months old, he tragically drowned.
31:28
His heart was transplanted into Carter, a seven-month-old boy with congenital heart disease.
31:34
Years later, when Jerry's mother, a physician and self-proclaimed natural-born
31:39
skeptic, met Carter, she was struck by similarities to her son.
31:44
Carter is six years old, she observed, but he was talking Jerry's baby talk
31:49
and playing with my nose just like Jerry did.
31:52
Carter's mother also witnessed extraordinary behavior in her son after the heart transplants.
31:57
I saw Carter go to her, she said, referring to Jerry's mother.
32:02
He never does that. He is very, very shy. But he went to her just like he used
32:07
to run to me when he was a baby.
32:09
When he whispered, it's okay, mama, I broke down. He called her mother.
32:15
Even more astonishing was Carter's reaction to Jerry's father.
32:19
When we went to church together, Carter had never met Jerry's father, she said.
32:24
We came late and Jerry's dad was sitting with a group of people in the middle of the congregation.
32:30
Carter let go of my hand and ran right to that man.
32:33
He climbed on his lap, hugged him, and said, Daddy. We were flabbergasted.
32:39
How could he have known him? Why did he call him Dad?
32:43
Carter's case raises a remarkable question about the nature of consciousness.
32:48
Is it confined to the brain? A large corpus of medical research suggests otherwise,
32:54
indicating that consciousness may extend to other organs, such as our hearts,
32:59
and even transcend the body in special liminal transitional states between life and death.
33:06
And it makes you wonder even, you know, remember, you know, our dog, Charlie.
33:11
Right. And he always went to that one place, you know, in a cupboard in the
33:16
corner by the kitchen for his food. And then, you know, Charlie died.
33:21
And later when we got the cat without ever having indicated or even being anywhere
33:26
near that place, because there was a long time between, there was no more food in that cupboard.
33:32
We never went to it. It was pots and pans and so forth in there.
33:35
But our cat, Allie, went to that all the time and sat there by it,
33:40
looking at it, staring, waiting for her to be, just seemed to know, to be fed there.
33:44
Yeah, we're talking about a good 20 years between. Between.
33:49
And it was very, very strange. Other things, little habits, she picked up.
33:55
There were strains, too, that reminded me of the dog of Charlie.
34:00
But who knows? Yeah. So it goes on here. It says, a new heart, a new person.
34:07
Paul Pearsall, a clinical neuropsychologist at the University of Hawaii and
34:12
Gary Schwartz and Linda Resick from Departments of Psychology and Medicine at
34:18
the University of Arizona, Tucson,
34:20
first documented Jerry and Carter's case.
34:23
Research in their study was based on more than 74 organ transplantation cases,
34:28
including 23 heart transplants, brought to Pearsall's attention over a 10-year span.
34:36
He found that organ recipients sometimes adopt traits of the donors,
34:40
including preferences, emotions, personality characteristics,
34:44
memories, and even aspects of identity.
34:48
Pearsall's study design was thorough, incorporating interviews with transplant
34:53
recipients, their social circles, and close contacts of the donors.
35:00
The researchers detailed key observations from 10 pairs of cases in which patients
35:05
shared their experiences of personality changes following organ transplantation,
35:11
including the case of Danielle.
35:14
Danielle, an 18-year-old girl, received a heart transplant from an 18-year-old boy named Paul.
35:21
Before the transplant, Danielle had no musical inclination.
35:26
However, after receiving Paul's heart, she developed a profound love for music
35:30
and felt a strong urge to play the guitar, the same instrument Paul played.
35:35
And we're going to have to stop here and take a break, so stay with us.
35:38
We'll be right back. You've been listening to Being Catholic with Bob Johnston
35:42
on Catholic Spirit Radio.
35:44
Miracles, miracles, miracles.
35:46
Yes, with God, all things are possible. How can we not be astounded when we
35:51
think of the miracles told in the Bible,
35:54
the Eucharistic miracle that happens on the altar during the consecration at
35:57
every Mass, and the miracles that transform and save people we know?
36:02
Hi, this is Debbie Giorgiani from EWTN. The topic of miracles is so stirring
36:07
that we chose that theme for the Catholic Spirit Radio Network's Fall Appeal
36:11
this October 29th through the 31st.
36:14
When you listen, your hearts and minds will be awed by the facts and real stories of miracles.
36:20
We've invited extraordinary guests to join us. You won't want to miss a single
36:24
one, October 29th through the 31st, exclusively on this radio station.
36:30
As you listen, I know that your appreciation of the value of Catholic Spirit
36:34
Radio will be reaffirmed.
36:35
This network is a tremendous asset, with 12 stations reaching communities like
36:40
yours throughout Illinois and Wisconsin. Catholic Spirit Radio is a listener-supported
36:45
nonprofit, so your donations are what make it possible.
36:48
Please support this radio station in a big way. Mail them a fall appeal check.
36:53
Call during the broadcasts, or go online and make a donation.
36:57
During these days, every donor gets a special thank you gift,
37:00
and we promise to pray for a miracle or need just for you.
37:04
On top of that, we have hourly food gift cards to give away,
37:08
and maybe you'll become the owner of one of the two grand giveaways.
37:11
We're excited to share this time with you. Here are the dates again,
37:15
October 29th through the 31st, 7 a.m. to 6 p.m.
37:19
Miracles. With God, all things are possible. Tune into our radio station or
37:25
watch the live feed on your Facebook page.
37:27
Hear facts and stories about miracles and feel the excitement as we join together
37:32
to support the Catholic Spirit Radio Network and its evangelization mission.
37:37
God bless you. Welcome to our new listeners in Charleston, Illinois.
37:40
Tune in on 90.5 FM radio or use our app Catholic Spirit Talk Radio or go online
37:46
to catholicspiritradio.com or ask Alexa.
37:49
Charleston, we're so glad you're part of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
37:52
De Colores, the Bloomington Normal Curcio is celebrating its 50th year anniversary.
37:58
All Cortalistas are invited to help celebrate this significant milestone on
38:01
Saturday, October 25th at Holy Trinity Church here in Bloomington.
38:05
The celebration will begin with
38:06
Mass at 530, followed by a light meal and fellowship in the parish hall.
38:10
For questions, check the Cortalista section of the website, bncurcio.org,
38:15
or email curcio, bnil at gmail.com. Tired of your phone bill supporting who knows what?
38:23
ICatholic Mobile is a 5G provider that supports what matters to you.
38:30
With iCatholic Mobile, every call, text, and even that endless group chat,
38:36
help support the mission of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
38:40
It's a network that connects you to what's good for both your soul and your wallet.
38:46
More information is available at iCatholicMobile.com.
38:51
ICatholic Mobile underwrites Catholic Spirit Radio.
38:58
Hi, this is Bob Johnston. You're listening to Being Catholic right here on Catholic Spirit Radio.
39:03
We're back from our break. We're talking about how consciousness is created,
39:08
and we're talking about the universe being a stranger place than people recognize.
39:15
Consciousness isn't necessarily, or maybe not at all,
39:19
something that we create solely from our cortex,
39:24
something that is from our parts of our brains that is simply put things together,
39:30
you know, totally on our own,
39:32
that it may be actually certain parts of our brain tubules that are very,
39:38
very primitive, and they actually pick up information,
39:41
quantum information from the universe itself.
39:44
If that is the case, then the universe itself has to have an intelligence that
39:48
is transferring to us, and we have to have the necessary equipment to pick it up.
39:53
And that means that there's consciousness on the part of even the most primitive
39:59
living things, and that life is a lot more mysterious than we ever thought it was.
40:05
And religions and so forth that have developed it over time and in our past
40:12
history are simply not superstitions at all,
40:16
but are actually insights into things that actually do exist.
40:22
And the whole concept of God becomes far more understandable as we look at this.
40:29
And it's a good time to talk about it because when we get into next week talking
40:33
about Halloween, there are a lot of things that used to be associated with Halloween.
40:38
That sort of bear on this, and we'll find that out when we talk about those
40:41
things and those articles next week.
40:44
So we'll return to our article here, and the article was talking about.
40:49
That there are cases in which there are personality changes not only associated
40:55
with the brain, but personality changes in people associated with organ transplants.
41:01
And so it might be that our cells themselves throughout our bodies and various
41:07
organs even somehow are picking up information from the universe and we are
41:12
able somehow to transform that
41:14
quantum information from the universe into what we call consciousness.
41:18
And when you think about it, just to think how mysterious consciousness really is.
41:22
I mean, AI, with all of its ability to process information, that's all it can
41:29
do is simply process information in an algorithmic fashion.
41:34
This is sort of like a cookbook processing, you know, recipes in an algorithmic fashion.
41:39
And there isn't the self-consciousness or self-awareness to AI as there is to
41:46
living things and especially to human beings who have it on an extremely high level.
41:50
And the church may be exactly right in that consciousness in human beings is
41:56
not lost after death because the consciousness of a human being is actually
42:02
in touch with the God that permeates the universe and this is what the Church teaches,
42:08
that our minds are like the mind of God and in touch with the mind of God.
42:14
And we're getting more experience here and more understanding scientifically that this is the case.
42:20
It says, the researchers detailed key observations from 10 pairs of cases in
42:27
which patients shared their experiences of personality changes following organ
42:32
transplantation, including the case of Danielle.
42:36
And I'll go through that again. Danielle, an 18-year-old girl,
42:39
received a heart transplant from an 18-year-old boy named Paul.
42:43
Before the transplant, Danielle had no musical inclination.
42:47
However, after receiving Paul's heart, she developed a profound love for music
42:52
and felt a strong urge to play the guitar, the same instrument Paul played.
42:57
When Danielle met Paul's family, she reported feeling a significant connection,
43:02
saying, I knew him, that is Paul, directly.
43:06
Another prominent case involves Claire Sylvia, who wrote A Change of Heart,
43:13
a memoir of her experiences after a heart transplant.
43:16
She reported developing unexpected food cravings after the transplant.
43:21
As a self-described health-conscious dancer, Sylvia suddenly had an uncontrollable
43:27
urge for chicken nuggets, a food she had previously disliked.
43:32
This craving was later found to match her donor's preference.
43:36
I mean, that is really something, isn't it, Lynn? Yeah, it is.
43:40
It's kind of scary. It is sort of scary and mysterious.
43:44
It's something that we need to understand more, and it's something I think that
43:48
religion has touched on so many of these things.
43:52
And if you go back and look at the history of religion, the history of man,
43:56
if you look at primitive peoples,
43:58
they accepted the new things that may be far more powerful and far more understanding
44:04
of the universe and far more accurate than we have ever given them credit for.
44:09
And I'm not saying that, you know, things among them couldn't go wrong,
44:12
too, and they could overdo things or whatever. But the point is that they had,
44:19
I think, a better understanding of the mysteriousness of life.
44:25
Of mystery. And of mystery itself. You're right. Faith is a mystery, I believe. Yes.
44:33
It's a mystery, and also, as
44:35
we'll see when we talk about Halloween next week, a sense of play as well.
44:41
Human beings have a sense of, they keep, like a lot, some animals do,
44:47
like dogs and so forth, do a sense of the play of a younger animal.
44:54
Child animals, they keep that sense, that willingness to set aside the rules
44:59
and look at things from a different point of view and so forth.
45:02
And it seems like our modern society has lost a lot of that.
45:06
We go through the motions without any real serendipity or a real belief.
45:12
And without that, I think it's harder to touch on these mysteries,
45:16
don't you? Oh, it is. It is.
45:18
That's why looking back as a young child, when I received First Communion at
45:25
age seven or whatever, You were more attuned to the mysteries of God, I think.
45:33
As you get older, you put that aside, and there's less childlike,
45:37
playful, you know, willingness to believe in some things that seem mysterious.
45:46
We get rid of, you know, we don't, we lose it. And there's a word for that.
45:52
Not the laws of faith, but the idea of maintaining your playfulness.
45:58
Yeah, I think there is, and I can't remember what exactly the word is.
46:03
But at any rate, there is a high sense of play among human beings that a lot
46:12
of times that sense of play is lost among older animals, other animals.
46:18
But it's retained longer in
46:20
some of the animals that we keep for pets like dogs and cats and so forth.
46:25
And that's why they're amenable to being tamed and being domesticated and so
46:30
forth is because they do have and retain that sense of play.
46:35
And trust. They do have a bigger sense of trust than we do as an adult.
46:43
You know, didn't Christ say you have to become childlike? Yes, he did.
46:49
He did. And, you know, it doesn't mean to become childlike, to become foolish,
46:55
or to become— Oh, no, no. It means to be trusting.
46:59
Yeah, more than just trusting. I think being able to look at the world in an
47:04
entirely different way, not only trusting, but to see things in a fresh way.
47:09
Right. To be willing to understand things, accept things that we don't accept as we get older.
47:17
And we try to explain everything away in a factual manner.
47:21
And maybe that's what we're getting at here when this article talks about being
47:26
in touch with the quantum aspect of the universe,
47:31
which is different from just plain mechanical or electrical aspect of things.
47:38
So, at any rate, it says,
47:41
a retrospective study published in 1992 reported that among 47 Australian transplant
47:49
patients, 6% had distinct personality changes as a result of receiving new hearts.
47:56
A 2024 cross-sectional study investigated the personality changes of 23 heart
48:02
plant recipients compared to 24 recipients of other organs, including kidneys, lungs, and livers.
48:10
The study reported that 89% of organ recipients experienced personality changes,
48:16
although the authors didn't correlate these changes to their donors' traits.
48:22
So that's quite a few percentage. I mean, it was a smaller percentage correlating
48:26
strictly to the donors, but nevertheless, it was a large percentage that had personality trait,
48:33
changes in personality traits because of the transplants.
48:39
And so, these transplants are transplants of organs other, of course, than the brain.
48:44
I don't think there's any brain transplant possible yet, do you?
48:48
No. So, but anyhow. Except, what's his name? Yeah.
48:55
Mary Shelley. No, Frankenstein, yeah.
49:00
But they were on maybe putting their finger on things a little bit closer to
49:05
scientific truth than we thought in that story. Right.
49:09
You never know. So at any point, at any rate, we should be open to a lot of
49:14
the things in the universe, this whole idea.
49:16
You know, we take it for granted. Where does consciousness come from?
49:19
But the fact is, is that, you know, we are totally self-aware.
49:22
We are aware of who we are and so forth.
49:26
And we don't find that to that degree, at least in other animals.
49:30
I mean, we know what our names are.
49:33
We know that there's a person inside
49:35
of ourselves that somehow or another exists and exists in the world,
49:40
that it retains its existence from day to day and, you know,
49:44
month to month and week to week,
49:46
that the old person that we see still retains the younger person that came before
49:52
and so on, and that identity is still there.
49:55
It says the results show that 47.8% of the heart transplant recipients experience
50:01
at least four significant personality changes in contrast to 25% of recipients of other organs.
50:07
Personality changes including participation in or watching sporting activities,
50:13
changes in temperament, and food preferences as were reported.
50:17
And also, the thing that I wanted to get at is that if we are picking up the
50:26
consciousness in the universe,
50:28
we need to be aware, is there a demonic existing in the universe?
50:33
If we are picking up stuff from the mind of God, can we also pick up stuff from the mind of Satan?
50:38
Well, of course. He's a liar. And we believe it sometimes.
50:43
We believe what he says. So you are picking that up.
50:47
Satan is a spiritual thing. He's not...
50:52
And we have been told from the time, you know, as far back as we can see,
50:57
people have been very aware of, you know, the power of death.
51:03
I mean, the ancients and so forth. Look at how they ate certain parts of animals
51:08
and so forth to try and get the courage and so forth from what they ate.
51:12
I mean, they were very reverent about the things that they had to kill in order
51:16
to stay alive. It seemed that they understood that there was,
51:19
you know, the life force that went out of a thing when it was killed and died.
51:24
And it seemed like they had a better understanding and grasp of the consciousness
51:30
formed that stays within the human being that makes the person what they are.
51:33
And it makes me wonder if, like, all these fads, if you want to call them that,
51:40
or these, I shouldn't say, hysterias, I guess you could call them,
51:44
that come along, such as transgender.
51:47
If a lot of these things are out there,
51:51
you know, in the universe and that people losing their belief in God are unprotected
51:58
against them and they pick these things up and they become sort of a mania.
52:03
And that's what we have going on right now with this transgender and the whole
52:07
idea that you can change your actual identity, you know, when we know that people.
52:15
That's not really possible. I mean, in other words, that your mind can be so
52:21
twisted and believe things that simply are harmful.
52:24
I was just watching on TV this young girl who was detransitioning and talking
52:30
to other young kids about detransitioning.
52:33
She had actually had her breasts removed when she was 15 years old.
52:37
Can you imagine that? No. So, I mean, what, you know, is going on here that
52:43
we let things like this happen and doctors let things like this happen.
52:46
And not only let it happen, but tell a parent, for example, that if they don't
52:50
go along with stuff like this, that their daughter will commit suicide.
52:53
And caring parents half to death, that they could either have a live boy,
52:58
is she trying to become a boy, or a dead daughter, you know, in horrors like this.
53:03
And parents going along with it. And then, of course, finding out that we're
53:07
wrong. You know, this idea that modern man knows so much and finding out that
53:12
we're wrong and then passing laws that stop people.
53:18
A psychologist or a psychiatrist from actually helping a person who comes to
53:23
them and asks for help with gender dysphoria or, you know, having the wrong
53:29
idea of their gender and so forth,
53:32
that somehow or another would pass laws saying,
53:35
I mean, if this isn't some kind of satanic behavior, I don't know what is.
53:39
Yeah. And now it's going by the wayside, I hear.
53:44
I know. Yeah, now this whole fad is starting to die and so forth.
53:47
But what other will come along?
53:48
I mean, there are more things that we need to be aware of and to guard against
53:53
in the universe, and there is more mystery.
53:57
Again, there are more things in heaven and earth ratio than your philosophy
54:01
has ever dripped up, and we had better start taking these things a little more
54:04
seriously in the sense that we don't know everything,
54:08
and we need to develop a little bit of humility and going around instead.
54:16
Making all of these horrible pronouncements on things we don't know much about,
54:21
thinking that we know the answers to everything and some of the tremendous harms that we've done.
54:26
But these are some mysteries. We'll have some more of them. And when we do the
54:29
article on Halloween, it's a long one next week. We'll try to get it all in.
54:33
And we'll show that what people used to think in earlier times in more complete experiences,
54:39
than we've ever done it on his show before. So we'll have that for you next week.
54:43
In the meantime, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.
54:48
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
54:52
May God rebuke him with humbly prey. And do thou a prince of the heavenly hosts
54:57
by the power of God, trust in hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through
55:03
the world for the new souls.
55:06
Amen. You've been listening to Being Catholic with Bob Johnston.
55:09
On Catholic Spirit Radio, if you'd like to contact Bob, email bob at catholicspiritradio.com.
55:16
Again, that's bob at catholicspiritradio.com.
55:19
Catholic Spirit Radio relies on your support to bring programming like this and EWTN 24 hours a day.
55:26
Please help keep Catholic Spirit Radio on the air with your generous support.
55:29
Donate online at catholicspiritradio.com or send a donation to Catholic Spirit
55:34
Radio, 108 Boykins Place, Normal, Illinois, 61761.
55:39
That's Catholic Spirit Radio, 108 Boykin's Place, Normal, Illinois, 61761.
55:45
Catholic Spirit Radio is a 501c3, and all donations are tax-deductible.
55:49
Thank you for your support of Catholic Spirit Radio.