Latest / Your Dark Companion Podcast / What is Life without the Mavs? | Mark Cuban

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What is Life without the Mavs? | Mark Cuban · Your Dark Companion Podcast

• 0:00:00 - (Mike Rhyner): Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Reiner. 0:00:04 - (Mark Cuban): Sports talk. 0:00:06 - (Mike Rhyner): Baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball. Oh, with the big mic. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, okay, now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys. What happened over there, Grego? We had a little lightning strike right outside the window. 0:00:25 - (Mark Cuban): The Texas Rangers win the World Series. 0:00:30 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, all right. Here's a tip, right? All these Americano league teams don't. 0:00:34 - (Mark Cuban): Wait, you said tip? 0:00:35 - (C): Yeah, tip with a P. I would. 0:00:37 - (Mike Rhyner): Keep jamming the ticket cola. Nothing but a big Gen X jerk off session. This is a cool night. Or what? Although somebody would hear that and go, I'm back. And hello once again, boys and girls. Welcome to an another episode of your dark companion. This being episode 155, we're told on the 22nd day of September, the first day of fall. Although it's not really terribly foolish out there. But it will come. It always does. 0:01:23 - (D): I'm here on Wednesday. It's gonna be pretty decent. 0:01:26 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, we got the whole crew assembled in here. That is Shupey. Ashley's here. Becca is here. I would be Mike Reiner. And I'm very excited about today because there have been a lot of people who have occupied a pretty high profile in the world of sports around here during my period of whatever little influence I might have had. And yeah, we've seen a lot of guys come and a lot of guys go. But one guy who hung around for a while and did rather well for himself in it is the great Mark Cuban. And he is with us today and he completes the first brother act we've had here on your dark companion. 0:02:16 - (Mark Cuban): Following the footsteps of my brother Brian. 0:02:17 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes. Who was with us. Got a good while ago, I believe. 0:02:22 - (D): I said episode 61. 0:02:24 - (Mark Cuban): Wow. 0:02:24 - (D): Nearly 100 episodes ago. 0:02:27 - (Mark Cuban): Always ahead of me. 0:02:29 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, it's Mark in here today. 0:02:31 - (Mark Cuban): Yep. 0:02:31 - (Mike Rhyner): How are you, man? 0:02:32 - (Mark Cuban): I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on, Michael. 0:02:34 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, we appreciate you coming in here and spending a little time and shooting the bull with us a little bit here. So what do you do with yourself these days? 0:02:45 - (Mark Cuban): I got a lot going on. I mean, primarily it's cost plus drugs dot com. 0:02:49 - (C): Yeah, right. 0:02:50 - (Mark Cuban): That's what I'm spending almost all my time on. Just trying to change healthcare and just trying to grow. And it's been growing so fast. And we're expanding into manufacturing or we're expanding our manufacturing. We're expanding into medical health care, not just pharmaceutical. So there's a lot to do, you know, and it's a big goal to try to change healthcare. 0:03:12 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, this is something that those who are aware of what you've been up to all these years, we know that that's been in there somewhere. It's not exactly the kind of thing people would want to talk to you about. You always had thing that was a little bit more high profile than that. But how long have you been doing cost plus and been involved in this sort of thing? 0:03:34 - (Mark Cuban): January 19th of 2022 is when we launched, but it started two years before then. So I've been working on it a long time, you know, even while I owned the Mavs. But it was, it was always something. You know, running the Mavs was fine and everything, and sports is great, but just wanted to have a bigger impact. And I just thought, you know, if there was a path to truly change healthcare, starting with pharmacy, which I think we've done, that was a worthwhile path. 0:04:04 - (C): Yeah. 0:04:05 - (Mike Rhyner): What is life without the Mavs like for you? 0:04:07 - (Mark Cuban): It's different, that's for damn sure. You know, because, I mean, I know. 0:04:12 - (Mike Rhyner): Firsthand how much you poured into that. 0:04:14 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, yeah, for sure. My heart and soul, you know, it's. It's good and it's bad. Like, the other day was my wedding anniversary and, you know, I didn't have to worry about, okay, where's camp, where are we going? Where are the players at? Where am I going to be? You know, and it was my son's birthday before that. And just, you know, it's just I can just be a basketball fan again, which is nice. And I can be like a lot of other fans. Not always happy. 0:04:40 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. 0:04:42 - (Mark Cuban): Not be responsible for the unhappiness, you know, so, you know, it's. It's certainly been different. And probably the biggest difference is I don't get to make the final decisions on, you know, players. The business side, there was always a CEO or somebody to run it. And, you know, I didn't, I didn't run it to try to. To make a lot of money or make money at all. A lot of years, but the basketball side's the hardest. That's what I miss the most. 0:05:05 - (Mark Cuban): Because, you know, there's certain times when I disagree and there's not a whole lot I can do now. 0:05:09 - (C): Yeah. 0:05:12 - (Mike Rhyner): That came down in a very strange way. 0:05:15 - (Mark Cuban): It really did. Yeah. 0:05:16 - (Mike Rhyner): And, you know, I mean, we were told that when you sold the team, you were going to be the basketball ops guy. 0:05:23 - (Mark Cuban): I mean, I sat there with Nico, Michael Finley, you know, Matt Riccardi, Andrew Baker, the whole staff. And that's exactly What I told him, that was exactly my understanding at the time. Whoops. 0:05:38 - (D): So did it just not get put into writing? 0:05:40 - (Mark Cuban): Well, so I tried to put it into writing, and there was a little thing, and it didn't say I would run all basketball operations. What it said was, I have the opportunity. I was. If I. If I wanted it my choice, I could go be in every meeting, every discussion, every trade call, every everything. But then the NBA took that out and basically said, well, that's Patrick Dumont's choice when he wants to allow you to do that. 0:06:05 - (Mark Cuban): And I was like, okay, we're so far along. I just. I don't want to screw things up. You know, it was just. You know, I just thought it would still pan out that way. You know, sometimes you sign a contract, right? And it's just like, all right, I trust the people I'm working with, and, you know, things happen, and it doesn't work out the way you expect. 0:06:24 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, like we mentioned a moment ago, you put a lot into that. You put heart, soul, money, time, everything that a person possibly can put into something. 0:06:34 - (Mark Cuban): More money? Yeah. 0:06:35 - (Mike Rhyner): And then more money and then more time and then more heart and soul. 0:06:38 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 0:06:39 - (Mike Rhyner): I mean, everything a person could possibly put into something, you put into that French. How did you know it was time for you to. For something change? Yeah, you know, it was. 0:06:53 - (Mark Cuban): It was. I really came to the conclusion in October of 22, and it was just wearing on me that it was just so contentious. Everything was always so contentious. You know, it was. It was harder to just run the team and enjoy the game. 0:07:14 - (C): Yeah. 0:07:14 - (Mark Cuban): You know, and I just kept on thinking to myself, you know, you go on social media for any number of different reasons, from cost plus drugs to the Mavs to whatever. Right. Shark Tank. And it was always hate, you know, and it was always somebody trying to pick a fight. I mean, how many times have you. You know, or how many times I went and responded to somebody on Twitter and then deleted it before I wrote it, right before I hit send. 0:07:42 - (Mark Cuban): And it just. It wasn't near as much fun. And. 0:07:48 - (Mike Rhyner): And this wore on you over a period of time? 0:07:50 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, just. It's just built up, you know? You know, we had Luka, which was great. You know, the guys were great. It was never about the players. You know, when I first got there, the players were the source of stress, you know, and the fans and I. You know, with the ticket and everything, it was like, okay, the people who call in, the P1s who call in are always met that. Are always mad that's a smidgen. Right. And if I'm not listening, I don't hear them. 0:08:15 - (C): Yeah. 0:08:15 - (Mark Cuban): You know, but on social media, which you almost have to use for any, you know, your business, and anything you're doing, it's just an onslaught. And I was like, okay, you know, I'm getting up there. You know, I'm not going to run this thing forever. Do I want to just turn it over to my kids? And I saw what's happened with Jerry, and, you know, it's worked out well for them. Charlotte, Stephen Jr etc have been great. 0:08:39 - (Mark Cuban): But I saw what also happened in other teams in the NBA, and there were kids that didn't want to be there, you know, and I just. I also. It's hard enough for my kids to follow in my footsteps as is, you know, I wanted them to kind of find their own path. 0:08:55 - (C): Yeah. 0:08:55 - (Mark Cuban): You know, and so that estate, just all the time, just all those things added up and just like, I also felt like, you know, when I'd go into the board of governors meetings, it was all changing. Like, when I first got there, I could have an impact because it was very entrepreneurial. 0:09:15 - (C): Yeah. 0:09:15 - (Mark Cuban): David Stern might smack me down a few times or find me, but. And then even Adam. But it was always, okay. What's about the fans, it's about this, it's about that. Right. But then it start becoming about valuations only, you know, as teams started bringing in more money from private equity. And not like I'm part of this group called Harbinger, who that does private equity for sports teams, but we deal with minority interests. 0:09:39 - (C): Yeah. 0:09:39 - (Mark Cuban): The minority interest, like I'm finding out now, don't have a whole lot of influence, but the big PE firms do. Right. They have all these stipulations, and I was like, all. All they cared about was valuations. And I just used to get frustrated because, you know, I want to talk about the referees, I wanted to talk about the fans. I want to talk about prices for the fans. Are we out pricing? Everybody media, you know, it's hard to get access to games. 0:10:06 - (Mark Cuban): And it was like, what? You know, but the valuations are going up. You just take all of that, and it was just enough. 0:10:13 - (Mike Rhyner): And you were always a little bit more of a product guy. 0:10:17 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 0:10:18 - (Mike Rhyner): I mean, concerned about the product. 0:10:19 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, concerned about the product and concerned about the customer. 0:10:22 - (C): Yeah. 0:10:22 - (Mark Cuban): You know, I mean, we had to. The day I left, you know, we had 4,000 seats, and it was a mandate for me that we had 4,000 seats or more there. $29 or less. And that was up from $19 maybe five years before that. And that was up from $2 ten years before that. Not 4,002 seats, but at least a thousand. 0:10:41 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, right. 0:10:42 - (Mark Cuban): You know, and I always looked at it that if our TV revenues kept on going up, I can make my, you know, my ticket prices cheaper. And I remember, like, beaming with pride when the morning news, I think it was, or maybe it was the Sports Business Journal came out with something that showed that our prices were lower than SMU prices, lower than the wings, prices lower than, you know, and I'm like, that's good. That's exactly the way I wanted it. 0:11:06 - (C): Yeah. 0:11:07 - (Mike Rhyner): Who was the first person that you bounced the idea that you're thinking about selling off of? 0:11:12 - (Mark Cuban): Do you remember Adam Silver? 0:11:14 - (Mike Rhyner): Really? 0:11:14 - (Mark Cuban): And I just sent him an email, and I mean, and it was not long after that, I had a meeting with my family, and I told them, and my. My kids were pissed, Right. They wanted the option of taking over at some point, but, you know, they were 13, 16, and 19, you know, so two of them were still young in high school, and one had just started college. And, you know, they were upset. My wife understood, but that's. That's really who I bounced it off. 0:11:43 - (D): Did your kids express any interest before? 0:11:46 - (Mark Cuban): Well, they were third. You know, my son is all about basketball. You know, Fred Van Fleet, unfortunately, you know, tears his acl, and we're texting back and forth about the impact he. I mean, he lives basketball, by the way. 0:11:56 - (Mike Rhyner): That happened today, literally. 0:11:57 - (C): Yeah. 0:11:58 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. And. And he lives basketball, you know, and unfortunately, he's taller than me now. He kicks my ass playing basketball at 16, which really makes me mad. But, you know, I wanted him to be him. I wanted my girls to be themselves. And just like, I went to Indiana University, I wouldn't let them go to Indiana University because, you know, my pictures on the wall and all this stuff, I'm just like, no, you know, that's just not what I want. 0:12:25 - (Mark Cuban): I want you guys to find your own way. But that's not what they wanted to hear, obviously. 0:12:29 - (C): Yeah. 0:12:30 - (Mike Rhyner): Did anybody on the inside of the game or on the inside of the team try and talk you out of it? 0:12:37 - (Mark Cuban): Not really, because I was. We all were under the pressure impression that not a lot would change because I was going to keep on running the team on the basketball side. 0:12:45 - (C): Yeah. 0:12:46 - (Mark Cuban): You know, I told him obviously a lot would change on the business side, because hopefully the goal was to be. Would be to build a new arena, something I don't want to do. And and that also was part of it, right? To. To build a new arena. Put aside what the cost is. It's the time, you know, and taking the time to learn how to build an arena. I'm trying to change the health care industry, which takes a lot of time and knowledge, right? 0:13:09 - (Mark Cuban): Trying to learn, you know, you know, how many toilets is the right ratio to seats and parking spots and all that stuff. And the technology that goes with that, that. That's not something that I wanted to, you know, to do, you know, and. And then so Patrick I'd known a long time, and he's brilliant at that stuff and brilliant at the casino stuff. And I was like, okay, I've got the right partner for that. 0:13:35 - (Mike Rhyner): Tell us a little bit about what kind of guy he is. I mean, if you've known him for a long time, we know very little about him. He doesn't make himself available to. No, no, hardly at all. I mean, what are we getting into with him? 0:13:50 - (Mark Cuban): I like Patrick a lot. I think he's a good guy. He's smart, he's got a good heart. He's got a good family. He's got two kids that are like 11 and 13, give or take now that are into basketball. He grew up liking the game. I'm not going to tell you he's a basketball savant, but he spent a lot of time. He's come a long way from the beginning. But he also runs Bally's Sands Corporation rather, and that's a big job with 6,000 employees. So, you know, he doesn't have a lot of time like I did to be at the games and, you know, you know, just always be there. 0:14:26 - (Mark Cuban): But he cares about winning, he cares about people, he cares about the employees, he cares about the players. And I mean, there's never any doubt in my mind that he's a good guy, you know. Now sometimes he trusts the wrong people, but that's a different issue. We all do it from time to time. 0:14:43 - (Mike Rhyner): So are you ready to look into the camera and tell the YDC crowd that this is all going to be okay? We are in the hands of good people here. 0:14:54 - (Mark Cuban): Yes. I think we're in the hands of. I think the governor. Patrick is great. I think Rick Welts is great. I think, you know, even on the basketball side, there's some good, really good people, but we've got a great roster. You know, we've got to stay healthy. Obviously, that's the big thing, but, you know, the basketball gods and $100 million to Adam Silver helped us get the first round pick, first pick. 0:15:20 - (Mark Cuban): That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. No, I know, Adam. No, I know it was more, but that's okay. 0:15:24 - (D): Can't wait for that headline tomorrow. 0:15:28 - (Mark Cuban): No, I mean, you know, all indications are that Cooper's the real deal, you know, I mean, we went through this before with Luca. I remember when we drafted Luca. So first of all, we had to trade. And that was just like, minutes before our pick came up. I got that done and we got Luka. And I'm thinking, okay, we just traded a pick. And the worst part about that, going all through all that, I mean, we worked really hard to have a really bad record, you know, and then, like, Sala Mesri hits a three pointer against Memphis, you know, to send it into overtime, and we win. 0:16:02 - (Mark Cuban): And I mean, like, oh, my Lord, this is going backwards. But. But then instead of getting the pick we should have got, which have been number three, we got number five and up, you know, up until this year, the Mavs have never moved up in the draft. Only downer stayed the same. And so. But when we drafted Luka, I was terrified, you know, I mean, I loved the fact that we were picking him. I watched all the tape of him at Real Madrid, watched all the tape, particularly against him playing against OKC when they played Real Madrid when he was 17. 0:16:34 - (Mark Cuban): I'm like, this kid is fearless. This kid knows how to play. He's got a lot of stuff to him. He takes big shots. And he was, you know, 17, 18 years old. But it doesn't mean it's going to work. Nobody drafts somebody that high and say he's going to suck, right? You always have really high expectations and hopes. And so I remember we all went to China his rookie year, and we were playing the Sixers, who just torched us. 0:17:00 - (Mark Cuban): But they had global ambassadors that go to these foreign games. And so we had Sean Marion, and I think Stephen Jackson was the other one. And every time he did something, I'm like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? You know? And he'd make a play. Oh, that's nice. That's a bounce pass between, like, oh, that's nice. Right? We'll see. We'll see. And then we get to the preseason and it's like, you know, all right, you know, and then. But every time the guys, when they'd play, they just said, he always won, no matter what. You know, when the guys play pickup, whatever was practice, always won. 0:17:37 - (Mark Cuban): I'm like, that's a positive. Then we get into the season and you start seeing Luka magic. And it was really special to watch. But, you know, I was terrified because we've had, like I said, no one's ever made a top 10 pick and thought they weren't going to be good. 0:17:52 - (C): Yeah. 0:17:53 - (Mike Rhyner): Was there ever a particular point that you remember where you stopped being terrified? 0:17:58 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, there was a bunch of say. 0:17:59 - (Mike Rhyner): Okay, this is going to work. 0:18:00 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. You'd see these passes that reminded me of Jay Kidd when he played for us. You'd see, you know, he wasn't a great shooter, but he could always get to the basketball just, like, at will. He could get right to the rim. And, you know, he was learning how to finish and, you know, finish at full speed and all that, but he was getting there just, like, effortlessly. And then we had this game against Portland where he hit that corner three to take it into overtime. And I thought, oh, my God, this is the guy. That is the guy that is in front of all the other guys. 0:18:36 - (C): Yeah. 0:18:37 - (Mark Cuban): And that's who he was. 0:18:39 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, so since we brought him up, let's go back to the night. 0:18:46 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. The night. 0:18:48 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes. 0:18:48 - (Mark Cuban): I've raised the date from my mind, but I remember the rest vividly. 0:18:54 - (Mike Rhyner): Where were you? 0:18:55 - (Mark Cuban): I was at an event for Cost Plus Drugs in Florida, and I was there with a bunch of politicians trying to sell Cosmox drugs and convince them about this and that. And I got a text, I think it was. Or maybe Nico called, and I saw he called where it was a text, I forget saying, call me, I guess I don't remember as vividly as I thought, but. And I did. And he was like, hey, we traded Luca. I'm like, you're thinking about trading Luka? 0:19:23 - (Mark Cuban): No, we traded them. I'm like, for who? For what? And he told me. I'm like, went through my list of reasons why I didn't like it, and he was like, you know, it is what it is. And then I called Patrick, and, you know, Patrick kind of told me what Nico had told him. Again, I didn't agree, but it is what it is, and, you know, that's the history, and it's done, and, you know, can't get it back. You just got to go forward. And I'm, you know, I've made plenty of bad mistakes on trades, too. And so I'm not going to, you know, cast aspersions because, you know, we. We had, you know, the Rondo trade and others that. That didn't work out. So. 0:20:02 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, nobody bats a thousand of those things. 0:20:04 - (Mark Cuban): Not. Of course not. Yeah. I remember being at Stephen Colbert, had like a 10 year anniversary thing, and I was one of the celebrities that I was invited. I mean, all these super big names, right? And I was like, what the hell am I doing here? But then the rumor started to spread that, you know, we were going to trade for Rondo. So all the basketball fans that were there, like all these big name people, and then I got the call that it was that everybody had agreed. So I'm walking around going, yeah, we got Rhonda. Yeah, how'd that turn out? 0:20:36 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, that's the Dwight Powell trade. 0:20:38 - (Mike Rhyner): Now we have our hits and misses in this world. 0:20:40 - (Mark Cuban): Everybody does, you know, And I love Rajan. Rajan's a good dude and. Or at least was with me and everything and never had a problem with him. But he and Coach Carlisle did not get along well. 0:20:51 - (Mike Rhyner): Got to have chemistry all the way around in these things, don't you? I mean, this is a chemistry driven game, right? 0:20:56 - (Mark Cuban): Really is. People really don't understand how important team camaraderie and chemistry is. You don't have to all like each other. You can, you can get mad at each other like in a family, but you have to respect each other. And everybody's got to put in the work to. To move forward. And sometimes it doesn't happen. And yeah, I can. There's. There's been times over the years where I remember there was a time, it was probably 2008, 2009, and we were struggling, struggling. And we were in Sacramento, and I walked into the locker room at halftime, I'm like, everybody get paid this week? 0:21:33 - (Mark Cuban): Anybody not get paid? If you got paid, play like you got paid. Of course we lost the game, but. And it was a lot. You know, it wasn't the year we wanted, but yeah, I mean, there are probably three times, four times maybe, where I'd walk into the locker room because it was all about chemistry. 0:21:53 - (D): You can cuss here, by the way. 0:21:54 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, you can't. Okay, fine. 0:21:56 - (Mike Rhyner): You say anything you want. We're not regulated by the FCC in any way. 0:22:02 - (Mark Cuban): You will be, but just not yet. 0:22:04 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, eventually we probably will be, but right now we're not, so go wild. 0:22:09 - (Mark Cuban): God. 0:22:11 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, I ask everybody where they were on that night, how they reacted to it, and where do you think this leaves the team? Because, I mean, this. I think this is the biggest sports catastrophe that we have ever had in our Fairburg. 0:22:28 - (Mark Cuban): You know, obviously I disagreed with it, but, you know, Nico to his Credit hasn't done a bad job of checking the boxes. He. He has needed to check since then. You know, he signed all the guys he needed to sign this summer, and he got them to do team, you know, considerate deals. I mean, we didn't get huge discounts, but, you know, little nuanced parts, you know, are they tradable or not tradable? Trade kicker or not, he did a good job there. 0:22:58 - (Mark Cuban): And so, you know, we've got a team of veterans. We're old and we're kind of injury prone, except for one guy who just got here. But, you know, if we're able to stay healthy, we could have a really, really, really good team. And I mean, we're still like every team. We're missing some parts. We don't have enough three point shooting, but if we stay healthy and guys, you know, Clay's going to make shots. 0:23:26 - (Mark Cuban): DLO is going to make shots. You know, we'll see how our bigs of if, you know, I keep on putting pressure on D live, you know, for him to start taking more threes and making more threes. But with a little bit of luck, we can have a really good team. And, you know, again, I've said my piece on the Luca deal, but, you know, just to be brutally honest, you know, what we did to sign the guys that we did and the deals we did, he did a really good job. 0:23:53 - (C): Yeah. 0:23:55 - (Mike Rhyner): Do you think the fans are over this yet or anywhere near over it? 0:24:02 - (Mark Cuban): No, I mean, I think you. You know, now that it's been more and more time, you know, when I would talk about it earlier, I thought, okay, the fans will get over it. That just happened. Yeah, they got over Steve Nash, but now I think it's just like somebody really close to you, something bad happened, you know, and at some point you get over the grieving process and you go on with your life, but it doesn't mean there's not a part in your heart that will ever. That it will ever go away. 0:24:33 - (C): Yeah. 0:24:33 - (Mark Cuban): And that's kind of where I've gotten to now, where, yeah, you know, Luke is always going to have a part of our heart. But, you know, the divorce happened and we'll move on. 0:24:44 - (Mike Rhyner): Do you think the fan base is at a point where they can. I don't think they can accept it like that. 0:24:52 - (Mark Cuban): I don't know that it's an acceptance as much as it is a recognition of just reality. You know, the parents had a divorce. You never thought it would happen. You'll still miss, you know, whoever you're not living with, and it's going. That part's awful. But you're still a family. You know, the rest of the family has got to be together. I don't know. Lousy analogy, but you get the point, right? You can still. You can miss somebody and still feel the pain. 0:25:22 - (Mark Cuban): But still, I don't think fans to. Second part of the question. I don't think fans are going to turn their backs on the Mavs. I think, you know, the thing about sports, Father Time is undefeated. So it wasn't a question of if he'd be gone at some point. It's just when and how. 0:25:36 - (C): Yeah. 0:25:37 - (Mark Cuban): And, you know, now we've got Cooper Flack, and that's just brought a whole new level of hope, which, you know, knock on wood. If he is who we all think he is, you know, people will focus on that. You know, and out of respect to Cooper, too, you know, when somebody's laying, you know, Cooper's all basketball all the time, with some video games and some golf, a lot of golf. But he works so hard. That is his. 0:26:06 - (Mark Cuban): This is his job, and he knows it. He wants to be the best, and he puts in the effort on that front, on that, you know? You know, from that perspective, he's like Dirk. He's a lot like Dirk. You know, Diet Focus. Always wanted to add something to your game. And I think while we'll always miss Luka, I think out of respect for Cooper and the effort he puts in, I think fans are really going to come to love him. 0:26:32 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, now, I want you to do something for everybody that I've tried to do. 0:26:37 - (Mark Cuban): I didn't bring my wallet. 0:26:41 - (D): We can do Apple bag. 0:26:42 - (Mike Rhyner): I have a hard time doing this, though. 0:26:44 - (Mark Cuban): Okay. 0:26:45 - (Mike Rhyner): I mean, if you can explain to everybody what the difference is between Luca and Cooper is going to be like. I mean. Yeah, I mean, that's what I try and tell them, that they're two very different players. 0:27:01 - (Mark Cuban): So, you know, Luca's from a part of the world where there's. Where basketball is a religion. Not like people love it here. Not even like football, American football, more like basketball is above soccer, you know, in Lithuania and particularly Serbia and Slovenia and Czechoslovakia. I mean, it is, like, at a different level, but also how people just enjoy their lives. They came from a part of the world that had civil wars and, you know, bombing all the time and, you know, were part of the Soviet Union, and then they weren't. And then, you know, I don't even know all the history, but, you know, there was, you Know, leaders who killed people and all this stuff. Right. 0:27:55 - (Mark Cuban): And that just the. The psyche is just different there. You know, you see it with Jokic, you see it with other Serbian players where, you know, they just enjoy life. You know, they've seen the shit or their parents have seen the shit. And for them to have a beer. Yeah, of course, you know, that's just what it is. 0:28:16 - (Mike Rhyner): Right. 0:28:16 - (Mark Cuban): You know, think of all the times people gave, you know, Jokic a hard time about his weight and everything else. 0:28:21 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, But, I mean, hell, a lot of them still do. 0:28:24 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, right. But. But they're. They're just, you know, think of Bobon. You know, Bobon is just, you know, he's the man. Right. And everybody loved him, but, you know, his attitude was always very loving but fun. We're going to have fun. Boban always wanted to go out. And I think you have to understand that mentality and just how, you know, the culture, the cultural differences. Whereas Cooper. Cooper, even though Dirks from Germany is just all basketball all the time, you know, it's his American dream to be the best, and he works at that level because that's what he was raised to do. But being born and raised in the United States, particularly up in Vermont, is a whole different beast than being born in Serbia or Slovenia. 0:29:20 - (Mark Cuban): And I think that's part of what we didn't grasp when we traded them. But again, for cooperation, he is just laser focused. I mean, you know, I'm not gonna say we've talked a lot, only a couple times. I met his parents once. But when I talk to the people around him and just keep up with things, it's just like, he's great with kids, but it's all basketball all the time. And I think that is a big part of what people are really going to respect and Mavs fans are really going to respect about cooperation. 0:29:55 - (Mike Rhyner): Would you say he's a basketball savant, like some we've seen come through here? 0:30:00 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. In terms of basketball iq, playing both sides. But doing it at college level is different than doing at the NBA level. 0:30:06 - (Mike Rhyner): Right. 0:30:06 - (Mark Cuban): So we'll see where he fits there. But, you know, his basketball IQ is John Rondo, you know, Lebron like, you know, his athleticism is Kobe like, you know, and his. The piss and vinegar and shit in him. Is Kobe like, too? I'm not saying he's Kobe. Right. But Kobe wasn't the most athletic player, but he worked on his skills, he worked on his craft continuously, and he understood the mental part of the game. 0:30:38 - (Mark Cuban): So that, you know, how do you get an edge? He was always looking for the edge. And, you know, Cooper talked some of that trash the same way. And so it's going to be again. I'm not trying to put pressure on cooperation. You know, he'll be who he is because he has a. You know, he's. Kids these days just grow up differently when it comes to basketball. But I think he's going to be something incredibly special. 0:30:59 - (Mike Rhyner): This is Mark Cuban with us today here on your dark companion. And we'll have more with Mark momentarily. We got a lot of other stuff to get into here, but first, it's time now for the dreaded and feared mid show read. 0:31:16 - (D): Get ready. 0:31:19 - (Mike Rhyner): That's right. Stand by, kids. I'm about to tell you something you absolutely cannot do without. Are you in pain? Are you anxious? Can you sleep at night? If the answer to those questions is yes to the first two and no to the third, then you need to do something about this. There is a way for you to free yourself of this and do do it all naturally. That is at the CBD House of Healing. At the CBD House of Healing, they carry only products from their lab made to meet the highest quality and purity standards. 0:31:59 - (Mike Rhyner): Everything is natural there. Find your relief from the aches and the pains, the emotional drain, the stress and everything that goes with it. And sleep again at the house of Healing. Now, the great thing about the house of Healing is you walk in there and they're not going to try to sell you something just because you walked in the door. 0:32:19 - (Mark Cuban): No. 0:32:20 - (Mike Rhyner): Now, their owner is an rn. She's going to listen to what you have to say. She's going to listen to what's going on, and she will point you in the right direction. Shop online there@cbddallas.com or in person and grab a slushie while you're there. That 8550 Plano Road, Suite 101 in Dallas, that is at the Northeast quadrant of the burgeoning intersection of Plano Road and Northwest highway. Begin your healing at the house of Healing. 0:32:51 - (Mike Rhyner): And effective now, all vape products will be sold online only. Go to bddallas.com for more on that. Is that it? We got more. 0:33:03 - (D): We survived, all right. 0:33:04 - (Mike Rhyner): We made it through that. God, I'm so relieved. 0:33:11 - (Mark Cuban): It's hard to read that straight up. 0:33:13 - (Mike Rhyner): Oh, yeah. I've been doing it for two years now, and only now am I starting to think that I'm getting it right a little bit. 0:33:22 - (D): You're doing great. 0:33:23 - (Mike Rhyner): Nah, I'm not doing great. So let Me ask you, you're doing great. Do you. 0:33:29 - (C): Thank you. 0:33:30 - (Mark Cuban): Thank you. 0:33:31 - (Mike Rhyner): That means a lot coming from you. 0:33:32 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, right. 0:33:35 - (Mike Rhyner): Do you think that you will watch the team play in the same way that you always have? 0:33:41 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. I mean, if I don't get into it doesn't make sense to yell at the refs. And if I don't yell at the refs, what's the point in going, you know? Yeah, I'll be there for sure. You know, we start off October 6th at Dickey's in Fort Worth, and I'll be there, you know, so that's only a couple weeks away. I'm ready. 0:33:57 - (Mike Rhyner): Who are your favorite refs these days? 0:34:00 - (Mark Cuban): None of them. No. You know, the funny thing is, they're all so much nicer to me now because they know I can't get them in trouble. You know, it's just like, I'll text the guy, you know, da, da, da, da, da. This happened in this game. They're like, hey, Mark, how you doing? 0:34:17 - (D): Or this new phone. Who dis? 0:34:18 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, it's just like, it's a whole new world. They don't have to listen to me. So now they're all my best friends. They don't care. They come up to me and shake my hand, and you know how the kids ask about his kids, you know? You know, Foster. What's his name? Scott foster is like, Mr. Pickleball, and I have part ownership in a pickleball team. So he wants to ask me about that all the time. I'm like, you know, he says he wants to be a general manager at some point. 0:34:47 - (Mark Cuban): I'm like, will you take care? No. 0:34:53 - (Mike Rhyner): You think we'd ever see a referee turn into a general manager? 0:34:57 - (Mark Cuban): That's not a bad idea. I think they couldn't do any worse than some of the ones that are out there now. 0:35:06 - (Mike Rhyner): Do you think you're finished with basketball and sports? 0:35:09 - (Mark Cuban): No. The way it turned out, if there was an NBA team that became available that was in the south, where it's warmer, closer here, then I'd probably be interested in, like, one of my good basketball buddies. Tom Dundon is the one buying the Portland Trail Blazers. Yeah. He lives here in Dallas, and we've played basketball together for years and years and years. Great guy. But, you know, when they became available, I don't want to. 0:35:32 - (Mark Cuban): That's too far. 0:35:33 - (Mike Rhyner): Now, he's a guy that owns the Carolina Hurricanes, too, right? 0:35:36 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. He'll do a good job. He loves basketball. I used to. You know, he's telling me I want to learn about what you're doing. And I. You know, when Rick was the coach, Carlisle was the coach. I used to take him to meetings and everything. And so he. Yeah, he got some training for us. 0:35:50 - (D): I've got an idea. Buy the spurs, then trade Wimby to the Mavs. 0:35:56 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, I'll call you. Sweet. Yeah. Double Suicide. 0:36:03 - (D): Finally get revenge on the Spurs. 0:36:04 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. Double Suicide. 0:36:11 - (Mike Rhyner): That's not a bad idea. You're thinking about stuff there. 0:36:14 - (D): We're thinking about things. 0:36:15 - (Mark Cuban): By the way, one of my best friends from college, his name was Shuby. 0:36:18 - (D): No way. 0:36:19 - (Mark Cuban): Michael Schubach. 0:36:21 - (D): That's awesome. 0:36:21 - (Mark Cuban): Shooby dooby doobie. Yeah. We were on the rugby team together, so we're close. 0:36:31 - (Mike Rhyner): Can we talk a little bit about this thing going on with the Clippers? 0:36:34 - (Mark Cuban): Sure. 0:36:37 - (Mike Rhyner): First of all, explain the basics. If they can be explained here, they can't be explained. I mean, this is a very. It's a very confusing story. 0:36:48 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 0:36:49 - (Mike Rhyner): Yet I've suspected in the darkest, darkest corners of my dark sports soul, that's. 0:36:57 - (Mark Cuban): Hence the name of the show. 0:36:59 - (C): Yeah. 0:37:01 - (Mike Rhyner): That things like this or things like what I think is happening have been going on in sports for some years. 0:37:11 - (Mark Cuban): I can't speak to other sports, but, like, I would tell our guys, I'm the most scrutinized owner in probably all of professional sports. When I own the team, I'm like, we ain't cheating no matter what. Right. And so. Because they'll. They'll come after me like a hawk. And so we didn't. And I really don't think, you know, you hear little things now and then, but it's just so stupid. There's just, like, so much at risk. 0:37:37 - (Mark Cuban): And we all know if you own a team long enough, you know, it's 90% luck and 10% skill. 0:37:42 - (C): Yeah. 0:37:42 - (Mark Cuban): And so there's just like everything else. Yeah. And it's just. I just don't see it. But in this particular case, this company called Aspiration, that changed his name to Katona Climate, went Bankrupt March of 2025. March of this year. And in their bankruptcy listing, it showed that Kawhi Leonard was owed $7 million. And so somebody decided to ask the question, why was he owed $7 million? And so they dug into it, and the company that signed the deal with Kauai turned out to be a complete scam. 0:38:21 - (Mark Cuban): And it was really, unfortunately, heartbreaking in a lot of ways because one of the founders, who was the primary, the biggest shareholder, chairman of the board, controlled the board of directors, turned out to be a Scam artist. He and one of his fellow board of directors members, members that just stole everything. And it was unfortunate because most pretty much everybody else that worked there, what this company did was first they had a bank where if you used a credit card, they take a percentage of the fees to go in and buy carbon credits or to plant a tree or whatever it was. 0:38:56 - (Mark Cuban): So if you were an environmentally friendly person, it was something that'd be of interest to you, but that didn't work out that well. And then there was a second part of their business which was business to business. So if you had a company, say the Mavs, and you wanted to be carbon neutral, you wanted to buy offsets or plant trees or whatever you wanted to do, do to offset your, your, your carbon, then you could work with them among other companies. 0:39:23 - (Mark Cuban): And so it was. The company was such a mess because this guy was a crook and everybody inside the company was just trying to do the right thing. But this guy who, you know, basically raised all the money, started the company. He went off on his own tangents. And so to Kawhi, they hired him in April of 2022 to be a spokesperson, but he never ended up doing anything. And so people presumed that if he didn't do anything and every time that the Clipper, the owner of the Clippers, or the Clippers buying stuff from them, or a minority owner of the Clipper put in Clippers put in money that they thought it was unique, that or interesting that two of those times when they put in money that led to Kawhi being paid. 0:40:18 - (Mark Cuban): Because the podcast had somebody who worked inside Aspiration, but the person who worked inside Aspiration was in the finance accounts payable department. Didn't really know at the highest levels what was going on. So the podcast believes that the Clippers circumvented the salary cap because they were directing money to this what they called a no show deal for Kawhi Leonard. Yeah, that's the general gist of the story. 0:40:46 - (Mark Cuban): I'm in a unique position because I've invested in companies where I've gotten scammed, right, just like this guy Scam Ballmer and Dennis Wong. I've obviously been an MBA owner and I've been evolved to not a big extent, but in the carbon credit industry and made an investment there. And so I kind of had a feel for all the components and I've run businesses, etc. I looked at it and said, ain't no way, you know, that the money that goes in there, There was a $50 million investment initially by the owner of the Clippers. 0:41:18 - (Mark Cuban): And they said that that money was used to pay the $28 million for Kwai. But that company, if you looked at the financial statements, while they were still legitimate, legit financial statements, burned right through it. There was no way to. And so they kept on saying it every time there was an investment because Kawhi ended up getting paid twice near the times of those investments. It must be salary cap circumvention. 0:41:43 - (Mark Cuban): And I was like, what about all the other times? Right. They never documented. Maybe he will at some point. But they never documented his third payment, his fourth payment, his fifth payment. And then the guy who scammed everybody came out and said, well, my marketing department doesn't agree that I hired Kawhi, so I'm going to give him 20 million of my own stock. Now, we don't know if that ever closed, but what we do know is when he did that In May of 22, he was the only one who knew that the company was bankrupt and that he also owed money that he couldn't pay back. 0:42:18 - (Mark Cuban): So the company was imploding, but he kept on telling investors that things were fine. And so, long story short, I don't think anything happened. I don't think, you know, until you show me that Kawhi got paid all these payments. Yeah, because even you know, the math doesn't. 0:42:38 - (Mike Rhyner): Math. 0:42:38 - (Mark Cuban): If he signed a four year deal in April 1st of 2022, who was paying them in 24, 25 and 2324 when the company had no money and there's no documentation for it at all? Maybe they come up with something. But you know, I'll add you one other piece. So they're saying all this money that's going in is all about Kauai. When the day before this company aspiration signs a deal with the Boston Red Sox to put their logo right next to the on deck circle. 0:43:09 - (C): Yeah. 0:43:10 - (Mark Cuban): And that was at least $5 million because the Red Sox were in the Chapter 11 filings too. It doesn't make any sense to me that the money that was put in was only exclusively going to Kauai. Right. And ignoring the Red Sox and ignoring paying payroll and ignoring all this other stuff. It's just, it's, it's a, it's a mess. And as it turns out, the guy who was manipulating all this and creating false statements, he and his buddy who made the false statements have already admitted guilt and they're about to be sentenced to go to jail. 0:43:48 - (Mike Rhyner): Now, as a guy who sees and has a better view and has seen and has a better view of this side of sports than any of the rest of us. Do you think this goes on more than we know about this type of thing? 0:44:04 - (Mark Cuban): I mean, on the margin, small things like, you know, I'll bust myself and said, I gave the credit card to Dirk and said, take everybody out to dinner, you know, or I gave it to Luca or whoever. Take everyone. By definition, that's a salary cap violation. 0:44:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, right. 0:44:20 - (Mark Cuban): Or I would say, okay, anybody takes a charge, it's 100 bucks. By definition, that's a salary cap violation. Do I think someone says, anybody says, take, you know, $2 million less and I'll make it up to you somewhere else? No, that's too hard to pull off. And it also means, like, even in this Kawhi case, you have to trust the agent who is at risk of being decertified. Now, Kawhi's agent only has Kawhi as his big customer. But, you know, I don't know how he pays his bills, but I'm guessing, you know, that he doesn't want to be decertified because the NBA Players association, if they ask him for information about what happened, he has to tell him or be decertified. 0:45:03 - (Mark Cuban): And he put his own name on top on everything that was going to be in the filings. Why would you do that? Right. That just brings attention to you. If you were, you know, trying to circumvent the salary cap. So none of it might make sense to me. 0:45:18 - (Mike Rhyner): Who was your favorite agent? 0:45:21 - (Mark Cuban): I didn't have a favor, per se. 0:45:27 - (Mike Rhyner): Or who could you stand? Let's put it that way. 0:45:29 - (Mark Cuban): I could stand them all. There was none I really didn't like. I mean, I like Mark. Well, I like Mark Bartlestein a lot up until a couple years ago. I like Jeff Schwartz a lot up until, you know, there. I mean, up until jb. I like to Aaron Mintz a lot. You know, there you. There's always going to be times you didn't get the guy you wanted. 0:45:54 - (C): Yeah. 0:45:54 - (Mark Cuban): And then you get mad or, you know, you know, like back in the day when the whole DeAndre Jordan thing, you get really mad, but you're going to have to deal with them at some point when they have a player you want or a player you drafted. 0:46:08 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. So you have to. No matter what happens, you've always got to maintain. 0:46:13 - (Mark Cuban): You got to get over it. Yeah, yeah. Going way back at the beginning, he was the agent for Calvin Booth, and he put together this. Calvin Booth hits that big shot, and I want to resign him, but at a reasonable number. If you remember the playoff game against Utah, right, where we win and the series, and he puts together this huge presentation about why Calvin Booth should get the mid level exception. 0:46:36 - (Mark Cuban): I'm like, no. And he goes to Seattle. You know, more power to Calvin, but not what we wanted. 0:46:43 - (C): Yeah. 0:46:44 - (Mike Rhyner): What's your favorite of all the playoff series that you presided over? And let's eliminate the championship series. Okay. Think of one that we might not think. 0:46:58 - (Mark Cuban): The Spurs. Okay. You know, Dirk gets fouled by Mano Ginobili, hits the shots, and we go into overtime. But the best part of it was Sagana Job. That still rings in my head, you know, how many years, seven, 19 years later. 0:47:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes. 0:47:19 - (Mark Cuban): Sargana job. But anyway, Tim Duncan tweaked his ankle or knee or something, and Sagana Job just took over. Like, he was like, that was his, you know, overtime was the. The penultimate, the ultimate of his career. Yeah, it was just like, unreal. So, you know, because it was going back, we went up three, one. They came back. And I remember saying to somebody, this is like a war. And I mean, some people have voted that the best playoff series ever. 0:47:51 - (Mike Rhyner): What is the one that still wrinkles you today? Because it got away. 0:47:57 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 2006. The finals. 0:47:58 - (Mike Rhyner): Oh, yeah. 0:47:59 - (Mark Cuban): Obviously. Yeah. It still pisses me off. And Dwayne Wade got mad at me because I said, you know, the refs, you know, sorry, Dwayne. 0:48:08 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, some things you just don't get over. 0:48:11 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. If you have any more kids, you should name them after Bennett. Salvador. And I've said this. I've had this conversation with Bennett because he would come to games, right. He became a training ref and all that. And. And we laugh about it. And I'm saying all this marginally Ingest Dwayne. But yeah, that was obviously the toughest because. And because I'll never forget, it was the third quarter and of game three, first game in Miami, and we were up 14. 0:48:38 - (Mark Cuban): And, you know, I'm right behind the bench, and I was standing up. I was all fired up. And I was thinking to myself, we might sweep these guys. And then Udonis Haslam steals the ball, gets a bucket. Okay? Then Shaquille o' Neal pushes. Pushes Eric Dampier out of the way, and they call a foul on damp. There's no universe in which that was a foul. Put aside all the stuff that happened with Dwayne, that alone was like, red flag. 0:49:11 - (Mark Cuban): And then Shaq hits the free throws, you know, and then I knew we're in trouble. And it Went downhill from there. 0:49:17 - (Mike Rhyner): Boy, did it ever. 0:49:18 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, yeah. 0:49:19 - (Mike Rhyner): But, I mean, there can't be a Mavericks fan out there who thinks about that series and doesn't think about what Dwyane Wade got away with. 0:49:31 - (Mark Cuban): You know, I kept little video or audio segments that I found from back then. Back then. I didn't go back like Tracy McGrady suggesting that the game, the series was rigged and other players saying the same thing. And, you know, and I haven't gone back and listened to them. But you know how sometimes you go through, like, your Google Drive or whatever and you see old files and I see it right there and it's just like, I won't listen to it. But I was like, yeah, you're right, Tracy. 0:50:00 - (Mike Rhyner): God, I mean, it was just, like, brutal. 0:50:05 - (Mark Cuban): It was brutal. 0:50:06 - (Mike Rhyner): And. And I'm a guy who tries to keep an even keel with things. 0:50:09 - (Mark Cuban): You know me, right? Yeah. 0:50:11 - (Mike Rhyner): Just like you. And that was the single worst abomination that I think I have ever seen or ever will see. 0:50:21 - (Mark Cuban): It was brutal. 0:50:22 - (C): Yeah. 0:50:22 - (Mark Cuban): Just so painful. I literally could not leave my house for months. I did not want to be seen by anybody in Dallas. I seriously. I was just. It was. It was just hurt, you know, and I didn't want to have to explain what happened. We lost, you know, I just don't want to deal with it. 0:50:40 - (C): Yeah. 0:50:43 - (Mike Rhyner): Was there ever anything else that affected you that quite that way, game wise? 0:50:51 - (Mark Cuban): I mean, there were times when players got hurt, like when Dirk got hurt in 2011, watching Karam Butler get hurt, thinking, okay, this season just ended, you know, and then I thought, you know, we had beaten The spurs in 2006, and I think it was 2009, we played them, and I thought, okay, we're the better team. We're gonna beat them. And George Hill just had the most incredible series ever. And I was like, who the fuck is George Hill? Yeah, you know, he was like. 0:51:25 - (Mike Rhyner): I mean, it seems like the Mavs had a way of. 0:51:29 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 0:51:30 - (Mike Rhyner): Somebody on the other side who nobody knew anything about, just careering against him. 0:51:35 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, for sure. So that one was really painful, too. 0:51:39 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, now, we haven't said anything about Dirk so far today. And then we can't let you get out of here without talking about him and what he meant. 0:51:47 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, everything. That's why there's a statue. 0:51:50 - (C): Yeah. 0:51:50 - (Mark Cuban): You know, I tried to build one outside the ticket of you, but they wouldn't let. No. 0:51:56 - (D): Let'S get back on that. They'd love it. 0:52:05 - (Mike Rhyner): But, I mean, can you put into words exactly what. 0:52:09 - (Mark Cuban): Just a good Friend. I mean, just a heart of gold. What makes Dirk special is not just what he did on the court, not just how he did it, but just what a good guy he. He is. I mean, you know, when I first bought the team, it was Dirk, Finn, and Nash. And they basically taught me how to interact with fans because I had no idea, you know, they grew up being, you know, idolized and, you know, the superstar. 0:52:33 - (Mark Cuban): I was just some schlub from Pittsburgh who bought the team and, you know, how they treated fans, taught me how to treat fans. And, you know, and since then, you know, as it taught me how to teach my kids how to react to people, because they see how I react to them. And I think that is as special about Dirk as anything. Just how he connects to and relates to and respects everybody. You know, he might talk some shit in German under his breath, but he's. He's going to be nice to you and you're not going to know it. 0:53:07 - (Mike Rhyner): Could you see, as a very young player, when he first arrived on the. 0:53:12 - (Mark Cuban): Scene and everything, I wasn't sure because when I came to the Mavs, all we did, you know, even me as a fan, I was like, all we do is draft big white stiffs, you know. 0:53:22 - (C): Oh, yeah. 0:53:23 - (Mark Cuban): Bruno Sundoff, Chris Anstey. No disrespect to those guys, you know, Dirk Nowitzki. We gave up tractor trailer for Dirk Nowitzki. 0:53:33 - (Mike Rhyner): And I thought that was an awful trade at the time. 0:53:36 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. And it was just like, you know, we were bad. And when you're bad, no one presumes that anybody on your team is going to be transcendental. Right? 0:53:47 - (C): Yeah. 0:53:47 - (Mark Cuban): You know, and just be a generational player. But what really, when it really turned for me was I think it was my second full year. We played Minnesota and it was KG and Wally Zerbiak and company. And that was Ben back when it was best out of five in the first series and we swept them. But Dirk, like, everybody thought KG was just going to punk Dirk. Yeah, Dirk was putting up 30 and 20, not like 25 and 10. 0:54:19 - (Mark Cuban): 30 and 20. Multiple games. And then I realized, okay, he had a whole nother level that I didn't even understand that he could go to. 0:54:28 - (Mike Rhyner): Now, were you starting. You were starting to come around on him by then? 0:54:32 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, yeah, that was. Yo. Yeah. No, I knew. But, you know, there's a difference between, okay, this kid's gonna be an All Star. 0:54:37 - (C): Yeah. 0:54:37 - (Mark Cuban): Versus this kid's gonna be a superstar. 0:54:39 - (C): Yeah. 0:54:39 - (Mark Cuban): You know, we knew he was good, but being a Superstar is a whole nother level. Wow. 0:54:46 - (Mike Rhyner): And now he's an icon. 0:54:48 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, yeah, yeah. Around the world. 0:54:50 - (C): Yeah. 0:54:51 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, and especially here, one of the biggest sports icons we've ever had. You can put him up against anybody ever, ever. 0:54:58 - (Mark Cuban): I think he's, you know, I love Emmett, I love Troy, you know, Tony, but I think he's up there. Mike, Madonna, Pudge, but there's nobody that really supplants him at the top of Mount Dallas. More. 0:55:13 - (C): Yeah. 0:55:14 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, we've had some good ones, but yes, he is the one, man. He is the one. 0:55:20 - (D): I've got a name that I want to know his thoughts on. 0:55:22 - (Mike Rhyner): Okay. 0:55:23 - (D): Bill Mazeroski. 0:55:25 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. The man. It's funny that in my Instagram. 0:55:31 - (Mike Rhyner): First of all, I can't believe this is coming from you. 0:55:33 - (Mark Cuban): Right. 0:55:36 - (D): He told us a story beforehand that. 0:55:39 - (Mark Cuban): All right. 0:55:40 - (D): That's why I was wondering. 0:55:42 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. So, like, literally in my Instagram feed two, three weeks ago, I'm still best friends with my high school buddies. And so we have our group text chat. And so whenever anything Pittsburgh related comes up for sports, you know, during the Steelers game, we're talking shit to each other and everything. But I got the fee, I got the video of him and my Instagram feed hitting the game winning game seven walk off home run at Forbes Field against the Yankees over right field. 0:56:13 - (Mark Cuban): And that like in Pittsburgh, that's like the thing, you know, because it was like the ultimate. People don't realize the Yankees were favored, like Murderers Row versus us. 0:56:24 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, this was right in the middle of the big Yankees dynasty. 0:56:28 - (Mark Cuban): Yes. 0:56:28 - (Mike Rhyner): Of the 50s and 60s. 0:56:30 - (Mark Cuban): Yankees won everything and they expected. Now, obviously it was before my time. I wasn't watching the game or anything. But since then, they tore down Forbes Field and built PNC park, which is like the most beautiful baseball stadium in all the mlb. It's incredible. I was just there a couple of weeks ago to go to a game. They sucked, but they got some pitching. But anyways, so the. The right field wall that they hit it over the Bill Basroski. It is walk off World Series winning home run. 0:57:02 - (Mark Cuban): I don't even know how many times that's been done. But they. Even when they tore down Forbes Field, they kept that right field wall. And that was a very important wall to me, as Shubi's alluding to, because that's in Oakland, which is where the University of Pittsburgh is, which is when I would go home for the summer. When I was in Indiana or at Indiana University, I would go down there. And because I worked as a Bouncer and bartender and all that. During the summer, that's. I would stay on this 38, 7022 Dawson Ave. Right at the corner and just up a little hill was the right field wall. 0:57:42 - (Mark Cuban): And from time to time I had a roommate. So if I was kicked out of the apartment, I just go plant myself, you know, with, you know, try to get a little makeout session going right, right there at the right field wall. You know, I'm 19, 20 years old, you know, Dirk would say a little something, something. And so that. That right field wall of Bill Mazeroski fame in Oakland. Pittsburgh has a lot of great memories for me that, thank God, are not on video. 0:58:27 - (Mark Cuban): Moving on. 0:58:27 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. Just for the. Just for the record, Pittsburgh is a very, very underrated city. 0:58:33 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, I love Pittsburgh. And if it weren't for the weather, I'd still be there. 0:58:38 - (Mike Rhyner): If you want a good, fun baseball trip, there is none better than to go to Pittsburgh. Going to pnc, I mean, PNC is great by itself, but the town has so much. 0:58:51 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, it's really changed a lot. Yeah, it went from the steel mill town to now University of Pittsburgh Medical center dominates the town. And it's become kind of a destination, particularly because of Pitt and Carnegie Mellon, but a destination for AI and technology and healthcare and healthcare technology. So it's really changed a lot. 0:59:11 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, it's got a great downtown. It's got beautiful, you know, Shenley park, which is great. 0:59:15 - (Mark Cuban): Shenley park is amazing. Yeah, that's where I was born. 0:59:17 - (Mike Rhyner): Anything you could possibly want. It's a great, great trip, believe me. 0:59:21 - (Mark Cuban): So Wiz Khalifa, Mac Miller, rest in peace. Mac and I were born within half a mile of each other in Squirrel Hill. Yeah. 0:59:31 - (D): How are your rap skills? 0:59:33 - (Mark Cuban): Said hip hop hippie. 0:59:41 - (Mike Rhyner): His might be. His might be about like mine. 0:59:45 - (D): You got some skills. 0:59:46 - (Mike Rhyner): No, I don't. 0:59:46 - (D): No, I don't. 0:59:47 - (Mike Rhyner): No, I don't. 0:59:48 - (C): I don't. I don't. 0:59:49 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, Mark Cuban, this has been terrific. 0:59:52 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah, thanks for having me on, Michael. 0:59:53 - (Mike Rhyner): Thank you so much for doing. 0:59:56 - (Mark Cuban): Was a lot of fun. 0:59:59 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, now we got to get us out of here. Is that right? Oh, we got. We got. No, no, I want to say it. I like saying this. Yeah, I do. So let me get to it and let me see it here. 1:00:16 - (D): Or maybe Mark wants to read it. 1:00:17 - (Mark Cuban): What is it? CBD stuff? 1:00:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, CBD stuff. 1:00:21 - (Mark Cuban): That's what it is. 1:00:22 - (D): Fair enough. 1:00:23 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 1:00:26 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes, that's right. Well, it's not there, so. 1:00:29 - (D): Okay, screw it. 1:00:31 - (Mike Rhyner): Just find us like us, share us. 1:00:34 - (Mark Cuban): Oh, no. If it's about. If it's a promo for you guys here, turn it to me and I'll. No, it's not on there. He's just got something rolling now. 1:00:41 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, I got the CBD thing I get. I guess for certain metaphysical reasons. I guess for certain metaphysical reasons none of us can possibly comprehend, we just can't get to it today. 1:00:55 - (Mark Cuban): Hold on. 1:00:56 - (D): I think it's pilot error. 1:00:58 - (Mark Cuban): You think? It really was not. 1:01:00 - (D): Oh, it really. 1:01:01 - (Mike Rhyner): No, no, it's not. It's not me. 1:01:02 - (Mark Cuban): Sorry. No, it was. It's is me. 1:01:04 - (D): A. I'm sorry. 1:01:06 - (Mark Cuban): It's not you, it's me for once. 1:01:09 - (D): It's actually Ashley. It's usually Shpy over there. 1:01:12 - (Mike Rhyner): Is this going to get fixed or can we go. 1:01:14 - (Mark Cuban): No, just roll. Run with it. You know, we're just. All the time. 1:01:18 - (Mike Rhyner): All right. 1:01:21 - (Mark Cuban): Yeah. 1:01:21 - (Mike Rhyner): I don't know it all that well, so. Just like us. Share us. Tell people about us. Get us on board here at your Dark Companion. Thank you, Shooby. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you, Becca. Mark, thank you again. Great having you on. 1:01:37 - (Mark Cuban): Yep. 1:01:38 - (Mike Rhyner): I'm Mike Reiner. Bye. All right, I'm gonna go take my pants off. Your Dark Companion is a stolen water media presentation.