Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #132 | Building with Pride: Lessons in Craft and Business from Kaih Orenshaw
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:17) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder podcast. Today I've got a really, really special guest and actually he didn't ask to be a guest on the Good Builder podcast. We've been chasing this bloke. So it was my wife that chased him, which is even more bizarre, but it's okay. We've got a good relationship and she just thought this bloke was a bit of a legend. So what she actually did was we were looking for good builders to interview around our region, the beautiful region of the Sunshine Coast. and I'll get a phone call from her one day and she's like, hey, I this Orenshaw designer builder, like check him out. And I checked him out, checked out your socials, had a bit of a read about your reviews and things. And I was like, this guy's a weapon. So I am introducing to you, Kaih from Orenshaw Designer Homes. You get it right. Yeah, no, I'm good. Yeah. Mate, so tell us a bit of the journey. And first of all, actually, just before we started this pod, I want to say congratulations because you just told me before we got on that you won an award recently. Yeah, that's right. What was it for? ⁓ We won an award, Master Builders Award for best use of sloping sites. Wow. Yeah, we've been trying for a while. It's good to get one in the bag and put it in the office for everyone to see. And you have to be brave if you're building on sloping sites. No one wants to. Definitely. It's a serious undertaking building a house over. 13 metres of fall. Yeah. ⁓ wow. And then making it, know, basically the design process and then making it something that's easy to live in. Yeah, that's craftsmanship, that skill. Not a lot of builders take that on. And I think that was one of the things that kind of sparked our interest in you in saying, you look like you don't shy away from the difficult things. I shouldn't say that. I don't want all the clients to come to you with difficult builds. Yeah. Look, at the end of the day, ⁓ there's not as much flat land as what there used to be. So it comes with the territory with the... Either knocking your house down on flat land or if you're starting from scratch. A lot of the times you're on a slope these days. Yeah. ⁓ That's what we do. A lot of the bigger guys don't sort of touch sloping sites. Sometimes I sort of think that kind of shows what type of builder they are. But anyway, you know, I think there's two distinct. We don't really know each other, kind of. But it's really good. But I think there's like two distinct. or like nearly two distinct industries of builders. There's your massive, bigger volume builders, and then there's your smaller custom guys like you that are a bit more of, take more pride in their craftsmanship. They'll do things others don't. Where the other ones wanna, you know, they're a bit like a McDonald's. They are, yeah. wears their hat. Yeah, and that's it. And all parts of the industry need them. But yeah, I love meeting builders like yourself that just take so much pride in their craft and do things that others don't. the devil's in the details, mate. You've to focus on those details. Is that your little saying? well, you know, that's one of them. I love it. got a few, but it's true. If the details aren't looked after, it can be the difference, really. Yeah. Do you really like... hone in on the detail of it. see everything. I can't help it. You know, I walk in and see everything. Yeah. Yeah. You're that type. You seem like that type of builder. And there's another builder that probably one other that you remind me of and we've done over a hundred, but there's one other builder called Craig Stewart. Yeah. And there's this saying he's from Gympie. Yeah. And a saying up there that people go, is it Craig good? Because he's so meticulous about the detail. And you remind me bit of that too. that's um. That's pretty cool, Kaih. So, mate, how did you get into building? How did it all start? Look, I mean, it's been a long journey. But I think the first instance where I thought, OK, I think I want to be at that stage a carpenter was… I was sitting in a lounge room somewhere just looking up. thinking, ⁓ my how does this happen? How do they do this? And that point I just thought, I want to learn how to do it. And that turned into getting an apprenticeship. then we built homes for, we built sort of multi-million dollar homes as an apprentice on the Sunshine Coast. The boss was away up Cape York or something and he had a guy that filled in for him and he said, well, you don't want to be a carpenter, you've got to be a builder. And I thought, okay, well, I suppose I better be a builder. It's a natural progression, you know. You've got to crawl before you walk. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I just got into it and then just one goal turned into another goal, turned into another goal. I'm to set a goal and work towards it. And we just keep getting to that point and… Going again. …setting another goal and getting to that point. Phenomenal. Basically. Yeah. So there was no family history, kind No, no family. No, oh, well, yeah, but there's some family history of that kind of thing. know, my grandfather's an engineer and… Yeah. …but, yeah, not necessarily, Wow. Just something you're interested in. Yeah, just something That's cool. I think you're the first guest, man. Like, they're just kind of… I'm interested in this. Yeah, I thought I'll have no idea how to do that. I'm going to learn how to do it. That's just cool. I kept going, you where I quit, keep keep moving and use. Are you the type to get it gets obsessed over things like do you do go deep on things? It depends what it is, guess. But I just need to know how to do it and I don't stop until I've. Till I've ticked the box. You go deep. I love it. I love it. Was there a project or turning point that sort of made you build a certain way or, you know, made you want to build a certain type of house? Look, I think… What was the turning point? I worked in the Whitsundays for maybe a year and half for my uncle and he had Whitsunday pole homes. So we used to do a lot of stuff on Hamilton Island and I think maybe working up there and seeing the stuff that he built for the people he built, that four made me strive towards where I've ended up. But as for a project, a specific project, no, I think it's just a picture that I've painted that you try and put yourself in and work towards. ⁓ early on in the piece on Minyama Island and as an apprentice building big homes on Minyama Island and I guess it was just a progression. There's a lot of projects that have gone under the bridge. I've always wondered what hands touch those houses over there. Now they're getting knocked down. Yeah, I cross that bridge every morning and I do use it as a source of inspiration to motivate my life sometimes. You look at the houses and you're like, just want to try and get one of those bedrooms. I think it was 2001 we built a house over there for a doctor and it was a thousand square meters. A thousand square metre home. Luxury home on Minyama Island, yeah. So you've done some…like, you were actually the first builder that we've talked to that have done some projects like this. Well, I was an apprentice at that point, so… Yeah. Still part of the… Massive. Yeah. Wow. And so what are the sort of builds that you do today? Actually, what they sort of like? ⁓ At the end of the day, we do custom build. So we don't do cookie cutter houses. Just basically anything ⁓ that we're aligned on, the client and we are aligned on. Because obviously you've got to be well aligned with the client, have a good relationship there. ⁓ But basically anything that's... That's custom. That's on the side of a hill. be a. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That's a very custom builder basically. Yeah. Yeah. No two houses are the same and yeah. And yeah, just, just meeting the client's expectations on, on a project. Yeah. It becomes a collaboration. I always say, even when I was at GJs and I'm sure it's more. when with what you do there, Kaih, but I used to say that building a house is like a marriage. Yeah, you know what mean? Because you're with them for so long. And at first you like dating them, you know, you're trying to get their number. Trying to, know, how do we work together? And then the date happened, you're on the contract and we're married and then you've got freaking what do you got with them? How long is the prenup? Yeah, yeah, you do you actually do. And then, you know, probably building some of your houses, but you've got a good 12, 18 months sometimes. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It just depends on the project. It can be anywhere from six to 18 months. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on the site and the size of the build, obviously. Yeah. And then, you know, you've got your six month defect liability period and then your six month maintenance, sorry, 12 month maintenance period and then six and a half years. Yeah. It's a marriage. It's a marriage, yeah. Sometimes you can be in the design process for a year before you even... Touch the ground. Yeah, yeah. But it's good. You form a relationship with people that last a long time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you would have some really intimate relationships like that because you'd know. Like you'd probably get into how they live and a bit more than a project builder that just goes, there's your plan, bang, go build it. We do, yeah. And then when you got repeat clients, you know, you get repeat clients. And then you get to know the family and the kids. It's cool. And the story that they have. It's interesting. Yeah, it's so cool. You're a big part of their lives. And this is why we started The Good Builder 2, Kaih, because of people like you, mate. Like, I just want to the spotlight on people like you. Good people out there. They're doing good stuff. But don't get the thank you. Or don't get the, you know, the adoration. You're doing stuff that, like, I think it's the hardest job in the world. I've worked in corporate for some big companies in white collar kind of roles. Nothing is like, you know, they think they're smart. There's nothing like being a builder, I really believe. And that's why, you know, we started it. Yeah. Yeah, to tell your story. Yeah, no, look, there's a lot that happens on scenes. Yeah. Before to put, you know, oh, we just want to put a house on that block of land. yeah, that's great. But it's a marathon. It's an absolute marathon. Yeah. Well, then, Kyle, what actually does doing it right mean to you then? I mean, the end of the day, ⁓ doing it right is building a home that will not move. ⁓ You look down any wall or any section of the home and you don't have to have a level or a straight edge in your pocket, but you can see that that wall, that joint, that tile edge, that anything is straight. Plum is never going to move. Yeah. And is done right from the start. So the foundations are all down into the same material. ⁓ And the house just is there to stand the test of time. Yeah. Basically, that's being done right. Yeah. Is that a big thing for you, Kyle? It is a big thing. It's a must. Yeah, because I... You know, like... Maybe I shouldn't say this, but sometimes I think some of the volume builders, and I worked for them, but they, you know, they're homes they seem to envisage in like 10 to 20 years. Yeah, they don't envisage their homes that they build being here like the Romans and a century later. Well, not many. And seems and when I saw your homes, it's like that home is going to be here 100 years later. You know what I mean? And one of them solid and I live in one now. I'm in Mountain Creek and I'm just in one of these solid homes built by an old school builder. I'm like, this home will be here long before I'm dead. You know, long after I'm dead. Yeah. I look it's about I love that. Yeah, it's about it's about going the extra mile and not doing the minimum, you know. You've got energy assessment, ⁓ energy ratings that you need to adhere to, but it's about getting the energy rating and basically knowing that you're going to comply to the minimum staff just with your normal build process, rather than insulating that wall because you have to, just knowing that all the external walls are going to be insulated and the house is going to be temperate. ⁓ That's probably the difference. We don't have to insulate that wall because it's working cavity. And according to this, we don't need to just insulate the wall. You go above and beyond. Yeah. go to, you walk into other homes and they've got sarking that only does four and half meters of tin. And then the bottom part of the... roof, there's nothing under it because they don't need to put it there. Yeah. Just put 55 million anti-con under the whole roof so it works. Yeah. like that, I guess, that you just make sure that that stuff happens, you know? Yeah. And then it's not hard. Yeah. It's just like, we do this. It's going to be done. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I love the way you say it, Kyle. I think you just, you seem like, as I said, we haven't met before this. You seem like just no fuss. It's simple. Just get the job done. That's the type of builder you are. And yeah, if there's bits like you said, bits of walls that don't need it but it's round the corner, you just do it. Just do it. exactly. Yeah, wow. It's interesting because I think a lot of that red tape and the rules and regulations, go, that complies but does it? Yeah. Yeah, wow. ⁓ So you're always questioning how you can do things better. Yeah, definitely. I mean, at the end of the day. ⁓ be honest, stuff like that makes the building process more simple as well, you know? Doing things, sometimes doing things right is more simple than cutting a quarter and saving a dollar on X amount of linear metres of wall that you don't need to insulate for what, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Love it. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. After 150 episodes, this is one of some of the few examples we've heard. So I love it. I love the way you're talking about that stuff. Yeah. You know, and I think it's important. This is the type of stuff that I think too doesn't get exposed to clients as well like these sorts of discussions. Yeah. So because they're the kind of construction. Discussions and you kind of don't really you have you haven't with the client or people in the market that are looking for a builder But you wouldn't unless you were involved with a builder and sort of thing So I think it's really cool that we're having this because then we can put this out to the masses and go look There's a type of builder that you got that Kaih is yeah And there's a type of builder that you you look for because you don't yeah, that's right. I think that's so many examples. It's examples I love it. I love it. Well, what do you think's changed the most? in the building landscape since you've started? I think, well, price is obviously one that's changed a lot. Well done. Top answer. If this was Family Feud, it'd be like, you got it. mean, prices are obviously huge after all the stuff that's gone down in the world and it continues to change. A trade base. Without being negative, trade base is ⁓ a change as well. When I started, there was a lot of good old school tradesmen that were in the industry. I think for every one of those we lose, we get 10 others that have to be questioned on everything. So I think there's a lot more management that has to go into to manage people. Oh wow, within a building project. project, yeah. Wow, That's cool. Good to know. That's big deal because, yeah, I mean, previously I think the road book was already there, but I think management, people management, trade management has definitely changed. So it takes up more of your time now. And so Kaih, you... And it's right, it's like we were talking about with builds, you wear so many hats. So now you become a HR and people manager. Yeah. As well as a builder. Oh yeah. You know, you look nice to your trades. some really good ones. So you off. No, But there's some amazing trades out there, definitely. Yeah. Some really good professional people. I guess to keep those people on, you pay a price and it's worth paying the price. Yeah. The critical trades aren't they? They are yeah. that's really cool. I got pinged on social media I think I said I was talking about what makes a good builder I remember and thought I was pretty smart put up a post and some bloke jumped on he's like what about trades you idiot. Yeah don't miss Sorry forgot about them. Can't build without them yeah. No that makes a good builder. Yeah. Yeah no that's cool that's cool. But yeah you're trade based and just having a good relationship with your trades and that sort of stuff really important. I love it man. Well, where do you think most builders can sort of lift the bar in what they're doing at the moment, Kaih? I think it's educating the client. mean, FAQ documents to the client. If someone comes to you with an architectural plan and you've got multiple people voting for the same job, think a big one... in the building industry really at the moment with builders is charging for your time. Yeah. When you're quoting, you Yeah. You can have one quote that comes from one builder and, you know, they've thrown a square metre rate at a plan that takes them 20 minutes. Yeah. So someone else that's done a bill of quantities and spent, you know, weeks boring over every detail. think being paid for that. process is probably a massive thing. ⁓ At the end of the day, it's just a massive difference between the two. ⁓ And for the client that the earlier one where you just get a square meter, right? You know, especially with a custom build, that's just going to turn into cost over. Yeah. Lack of. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, lack of transparency and then a project that goes too long and Yeah. And costs everyone more and then you have an unsteady relationship at the end of it. I think right from the onset. That's so mate. Is probably when it comes to those things being able to charge for a proper quote, a bill of quantities. So pre-construction. Yeah, pre-construction, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I know a few builders that don't. Yeah. You know, and it's probably one of their biggest bugbears. Like you hear them talking, oh, I did weeks. Freaking quoting and yeah, just to be price checked, you know, yeah, basically. Yeah. man. That was such a nugget of gold for the community, man. Thank you for that. Yeah. And so you do that. Do you do that day in, day out? you don't mind me asking. Charge for quotes in some way. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if you've if you've got a negotiated tender with someone and you've drawn their plans and. had the drafting done for them and got a prelim agreement and got all your contour surveys and your effluent disposal reports done and all that kind of stuff, slope stability reports. with the client and you're working with them, then that's different. But when you've got a random job coming across your desk and you really... Yeah, you waste a lot of time. Waste a lot of time. Nah, good on you. Mate, that's a freaking good piece of advice, mate. I think it's one of the first two. I think anyone that's ever sort of said it on here. Yeah, well look, I think most builders could probably... Relate to it. Yes. No, we hear a lot. That's why I was going on about it. when you were saying, shit, so many people talk about that to me. That's a cool thing for them to do and to know. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you do it because I'm not a builder. Just do it. Whatever Kaih says, just do it. Yeah. Well, I think that's just the educational part. That's awesome. Well, yeah, as we said, know. being a builder, you're also running a business. You're a businessman and a builder. What are some of the hardest lessons you've learned in business alone, Guy? Like what are some of the things that you stumbled across where you kind of went, didn't know about that. In business itself? Yeah, in business itself. Just over the years, There's been so many business lessons. ⁓ everyone's had to learn, I guess a business lesson. Overheads, you know, at end of the day. Yeah. Overheads will eat your profit if you don't have the right balance. Yeah. Yeah. And a builder's margin that will cover your overheads and give you the profit that you deserve. Yeah. being wedded to a house for... Six and a half years. Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah, there was... I was talking to the GM of Stroud Homes, actually, and he was talking about overheads and the way he works through them, and he was saying it's one of the most important things, but builders never look at them. And like the overheads of a project, like per project, there's overheads, you know, and they contribute... I don't really know how it all works but he gave me some sort of infographic which I kind of got my head around. But you see, like, the more you do, the more overheads you have, you've to really watch them. You do, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, the overheads of any building company is going to be between 8 12%. Yeah. if… Ultimately, let's call it your overheads are 10%. Yeah. So if you're turning over… $5 million, you're going to have $500,000 in overheads basically. So if you're not converting margin of 20 % or over then you're… you're not essentially doing too well. that's, that's how builders get themselves in trouble. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So overheads is a big one. You just said that so logically and easy. I didn't still it mate. I like it. Yeah. Well just, you got to the end of the day, people will try and screw you down on a, a, on a builder's margin, but your builder's margin needs to be above 20 % to start with. Just to survive. Well, you need to, you need to do a 25 % markup to convert, to convert back to a 20 % margin to be able to pay your overheads and then generate a profit to be able to borrow it in the homes and have a good lifestyle where you're taking all the risk. Oh yeah, yeah. So community listen at that point because it didn't rewind this because that was really cool the way you broke down and that's where a lot of builders get in trouble. Yeah, it is, Well, mate. Kyle, you've been awesome. I have one last question for you. You know we're called the good builder. Well, you just found out we're called the good builder. yeah. On my way up the stairs, where am I going? I love it. I love it. And this is what I love about you. And I am not embarrassed to say it's good that, you know, it's having someone fresh on the couch that doesn't know about us. This discussion has been freaking awesome, man, because you've just come like... You've just given everything, it's just been so normal and just given everything. Like how you do it, it's been great advice. So I really appreciate it. And I love people that just, I'm like a guy that just says yes to everything and just turns up to it. You he's just like, what's going to come of it? Sometimes it's bad. I went to an event the other night that I probably shouldn't have. But, you know, other than that, sometimes it's a good thing. But my last question for you, Kaih, is what makes a good builder? think there's lots of clues in this podcast. I think you've said, like, if you listen to what you've been saying… know it's hard to It's hard to put one thing on it because there's so many elements. Someone is a good builder of it. think essentially I think it's ⁓ a good builder is someone that cares about what they do, really. I mean there's a lot of bad builders out there that don't really care. ⁓ what makes a good builder is someone that cares about the product that they're producing and has a lot of pride in what they do. And so does their team. has a good team behind them that align with the leadership of the builder. You can never really outgrow your leadership. So if everyone's on the same path, then ultimately you turn out a good product. I think that's probably it. Really. Yeah. No, I love it. ⁓ I love it. There's been a few that have jumped on and some talk about the craftsmanship side and things like that. But a lot of them have talked about… Not a lot actually. There's been a handful that have talked about… like personal traits such as pride and things like that that are important in becoming a And I really think it is. It's a mindset and it's like you've got to be motivated to be a good builder because it's a hard job. know, you have to give yourself the time to breathe away and be ready, you know? It's like, it's not an easy journey being a good builder, I guess. It's a hard journey. I guess the longer you do it, hopefully the better you get at it. Yeah. Well, mate, you're a good builder. Always thanks. Congratulations on the award. Thank you so much for coming in. And thank you for participating in our community and just like allowing us to put some knowledge out there about you, mate. This was a really cool chat. Honestly, it was awesome. thank you very much. Yeah. You say it was you're so humble, man, but the stuff you were saying was phenomenal. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Legend Awesome. That's it.