Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #283 | Is What Reddit Is Really Saying About Builders Right Now True?

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The Daily Dose #283 | Is What Reddit Is Really Saying About Builders Right Now True? · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:17) Well, here we are once again with the awesome Emily for your Monday. I know you love these episodes. They are performing much better Emily than when I did a Malone. Well, that doesn't surprise, no I'm kidding, does. Happy to hear it though. No, it doesn't surprise you and it should because every time you come on It's been such a great chat. last week we chatted a little bit about, know, how consumers are choosing their builder. Yeah, absolutely. Now further to that, Emily and me and you did this over the past week or so we've just been trolling Reddit, which I think is one of the most interesting platforms, but there's a lot of conversations and questions on there right now. Absolutely. And the funny thing was that, think most of the questions that are popping up on there, Emily, I wanted to discuss with you today, but are aligned with kind of how you actually do things and what you know the customers are sort of thinking. So like, what was your sort of first reaction to some of the Reddit posts and dives that we did? I don't think anything in this industry surprises me anymore from a consumer point of view. It's the, you know, general distrust, uncertainty, lack of education. Don't know where to turn. Don't know what to do. That's just labeled everywhere. Whether you're on Reddit or, know, these huge Facebook groups, everyone has the kind of same consensus and no one seems to do much about it, which is wild. So obviously part of why I'm doing what I'm doing is to, guess, enable the conversation to exist around that and how we can do better. And when we can understand when clients maybe aren't doing the right thing either, right? You know, you see things that you look at within these posts that make you go, well, how did you not understand what your contract said when it laid it out quite clearly for you? You just didn't bother to read it. Or, you know, I've had a recent client experience where someone had said to me, Oh, I thought this was going to happen as soon as I signed my contract. And I've said, well, what gave you that impression? So it's not always just a matter of, you know, them being misled. It's also foundationally, the fact that not educated and They just don't know what to do when they're turning to each other, like the blind leading the blind to figure out one of the biggest financial decisions of their life. You know, it's Do you know what, Emily? I actually love what you just said and how you put it. think I was looking at the Reddit boards and I'm like, as an industry, are we doing a good enough job? This is why we've actually got you here as a co-host because you're amazing. You've kind of said, wait a minute. It's also. some misunderstanding on the side of the client as well. Yeah. And do you see that a lot out there? Yeah. Yeah. All the time. Yep. 100 % quite frequently. So there is a really disparity between what a builder does and what a client understands to have happened or to do. until something fills that middle, whether that's the builder brings in more education. to inform the client or the client goes out of the way to educate themselves, there's gonna continue to be a divide. That's it. And that's where I think, honestly, and I'm not plugging you again, we'll get into some of the comments, but that's where I think Build A Broke has filled the gap, isn't it? Because builders will never tell them everything. not always. It's very In theory, it should be. Well, yeah, and that's an interesting topic in itself because I think, I've been having a look at all these comments, there's stuff around, very much around variation and. A lot around that, that's a huge thing right now. It's always been a huge thing. And when you see actually, when you see some of the Build A Broker's marketing out there, can see why actually. You know, I was just looking at a few videos of another Build A Broker, not yourself, but someone else, or I don't know, maybe they're not a Build A Broker, I'm not sure that they are, but maybe an Instagram page. And they take you through, they're talking about a base price. And then they're going through a display home and going, you can get this for $288,000. I think this fuels some of the Reddit comments. It fuels my rage. I don't know about much else. think as a middle ground person, right? You can choose to be a marketer and you can choose to push a message from a builder, or you can choose to come in more unbiased if you wish to. It's always difficult to not be biased. That's naturally the case. I hold bias for sure. But there's two options that can be made here. You can be a third party that sells for a builder. Yeah. Or you can be someone who wants to educate across the board and who wants to connect people with the right builder. Yeah. And that's where it gets really skewed in this sort of channel partner world. And it shits me to tears to see people going, you know what? I'm unbiased. I'm, I'm this, I'm that. But then let's do a walkthrough of a house saying, this is what my client bought in this suburb for $750,000. And I go, okay, but that was two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Say what it costs now. Yeah. Walk through a display home. Any builders out there who want me to walk through their display home, do a tour and say, this was the base price of this house. This is how much it would cost to build on this site. And this is how much it costs to build at this level of spec. I want to do that. Yeah, yeah. People have to be willing to have that price out there. Yeah. One of the biggest feedback I get is when I, you know, when we do paid advertising, for example, it's a package or whether it's a build alone, whatever it is, I'm like, this is the price. People are like, that's far too much money. I was like, yeah, because you've read a base figure somewhere and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. It is what it is. And then you have other people go, thank you for actually putting a price to this. and explaining what you're getting for your money and ensuring that it actually is able to be built. So it's a real in-between that some people are so heavily ingrained in the marketing aspects. And then they find out later that that's not realistic. And then they take to Reddit to shit all over builders. To be honest. Thank you for explaining it, Emily, because I'm a little bit out of the game, as you know, and I'm working on this good builder thing and on the builder side, you talk to builders and clients every day, you deal with them every day. I'm looking at some of these comments and I'm like, know, builders, got to do better or more so like, what are we doing as an industry? But you see it from both, both perspectives. I think one of the things is, is, um, we do feel some of these comments ourselves as an industry, I truly believe because of the builder marketing. get a free pool, get your house for 280 grand. You go through a display home, this home from 187,000 on the Bruce highway. It's like, come on. I'm just going to start ripping down those signs. Just set fire to them. Honestly, it's- Because it must make your job harder and the conversations you have- that it makes my job hard. That's not the problem. It makes people believe it to be true. And then it's not. That's the problem. don't even fuck if my job gets harder by it. That's not the problem. It's societal input of mistrust created towards the industry by this. That's the problem. That then makes my job hard and that's annoying, but it also tarnishes the entire industry. And then you look on Reddit and you're like, well, expect to be hit with a variation, know, expect that your costs are going to blow out because that's exactly what happened to me. You know, your prelim cost versus my contract cost was a hundred grand difference and they knew it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What can we do better there? It's pretty simple. Create a better process leading up to contract to get a more transparent. Yeah. I think so. Imagine if we all just did that. I know. Picture that. What it would do for the industry. Yeah. Because that was the thing like why I wanted to do this episode with you, maybe grab some clarity. We'll put some of the comments below. Actually, I'm going to get some snippets and I'll put it through this podcast on video so we can kind of see what's being said out there and read it. It ain't good. No, it isn't Emily. Do you see that a lot? Like, is it, is it just a really, some people are naturally just whingers That's not a construction industry issue. is some people just like to whinge Yeah. Yeah. I would also whinge if someone had told me X and then delivered Y at a price that I could no longer afford and that they knew it all the way along. I would also whinge about that. So yes, there's some instances. I was on a Facebook group last night and it was someone going, I'm just about to start building. Tell me the worst thing that's happened. And I was like, no, do I dare. opened it up. First comment was, Oh, my builder didn't read my plans properly. So they just completely forgot about the front gable. So now I just have a normal pitch roof. Oh, and he was like, Oh, sorry, I think it looks better. Far out. I just closed it because I was like, you know what, I'm not willing to trigger myself today. Yeah. But you know, there's there's granted things that happen. Yeah, and there's experiences that I've had with the builders on our panel that make me go like If you were dealing with a client directly now, would have blown up. I can see it from both, you know, human error occurs. I get that. You know, we could have all done better to fix this situation, but if you were delivering this in the way that you have to me to a client, they would have had their backup. They would have been slanderous of you because what you've delivered is shit. Do you know what mean? Like what the outcome here was shit for the client. How are we fixing that now? But the difference is how builders then fix it. It is. It is. That's, that's, I think a lot of times that that's what makes a good builder. Yeah. Actually, errors have to occur. It'll always happen in construction. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like all of these conversations kind of go around that, don't they? They go around de-risking the bill. Like who do you go with that we know things are going to go wrong, but how are they going to get it right? Yeah. Are you seeing a lot of that as well out there, Emily, when people are choosing builders from your panel? Like, are they asking those questions? Yes. wow. Even in the last few weeks, people who'd already selected a builder then goes, what is their risk of going bankrupt right now? That was a big thing that came up in Reddit. Insolvencies. Really? Yeah. We see it everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any newspaper? Is that one of the most common questions? I think it's one of the biggest stresses across the industry as to why approval rates have considerably fallen, especially in that mid-tier level. Yeah. lot of people are going, well, it's not the right time to build now. A lot of consensus around, it's getting more expensive. They're going to hit it up for post contract variations. You read the contracts and they have, you know, escalation clauses. have provisional sums, things that they use, builders weren't using a few months ago have now appeared back in like in COVID to protect themselves. But clients don't want that. Well, they don't have the ability to pay more money. Yeah. So what are they supposed to do? Interest rates go up, build price goes up and they're what left with a block of land that they can't afford to build anything on. Yeah. Let's hope that the market continues to go up so they can recoup some money on the land costs. But you know, if you're using a first home builders grant or, you know, the 5 % deposit scheme, all of those things, you get one chance to do that. Yeah. And you've just stuffed it. So it's, it's, it's difficult, right? We don't want builders going insolvent. We want builders to be protected. You know, the price you've seen all about the price lock now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find funny, I some of the really great builders doing that. Yeah, stuck by their word during COVID. They built these prices, these houses and no money. Yeah, that happened. Right? Or they had losses. Yeah. And then it's funny for me when you see builders offering price lock, who then during COVID cancelled everyone's contracts. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what mean? Like, I get the stance. Yeah. But is it a marketing stance? Or is it actually something they're going to commit to. You know, if you're going to have a pandemic and you're to have this housing crisis and you're going to have all this escalation and you take on hundreds of contracts that you probably shouldn't have because the grants came out and then you sign people's contracts, pay them, they pay their 5 % deposit and then you decide, I'm not going to hit you up for a price increase. We can't do that. I'm just going to cancel them and then pretend I didn't do it. And then now they're, you know, some of these builders are going, oh, we'll offer a price lock. Yeah. You just have to Google your name and see that that's what you did. Yeah. I had, remember having people come in when I was at Stroud being like, I've just had my contract torn up. And I was like, what? do you mean? And they just come to you to get yeah. Trying to find a builder because they've literally waited seven months to get to site and no contracts now. So it's hard. You know, you want people to have learnt. Yeah. I hope that's been the case. But many builders have not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard, isn't it? It really is. think, um, it's a double-edged sword. I know we started with Reddit comments and kind of how people are viewing our industry. They're trying to de-risk themselves when they're looking for a builder now and all that sort of thing. But I think you're completely right. And I have the same view as well. We do our own. used to hate promotions, for example, when I was at GJ Gardner, I tried to cancel them across the board. was like, stop doing promotions, be really transparent, don't give away the free pool or the free kitchen. Cause people know. I was actually on Reddit looking at some of these additional ones and what you had sent me. one of them was like, Oh, which should I choose? Should I choose the, what was it? The upgraded air con or should I choose the highest ceilings? And then another person had commented it just like an everyday person. And had literally said, you don't get either of them for free. So like, what the fuck does it matter? So some people are clue enough and it's, I don't know. Is it ever going to stop? Maybe I hope so. Yeah. But you know, for now, as I said, I'll just pop by the displays and tear it off. And when you have estimators that I know who are like, yeah, it doesn't actually exist. It's all just written into the core price. We just swap them over every now and then. So people, you know, want a good deal. If people want to believe that then that's up to them. You know, I can say things like, that's not true. I don't believe that to be factual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my opinion. Yeah. And they're like, no, no, no. It's definitely right. Like I didn't work in this industry for 10 years. Yeah. But yeah, honestly, that the consensus always comes back though, whether it's looking at people are posting online or even just in the industry, that we are clearly as an industry doing something wrong. Yeah. That people have so much mistrust. what that something gives is multifacet. Are we not delivering on the product? Are we not giving the right level of customer service? Are clients expectations too high? And if they are, who set that expectation? That's a really big one. Because some people just marry that up on their own accord. And then at other times, they're expected that as per a conversation, that this is what they're going to be delivered and it doesn't happen. I think whether it's Reddit, Facebook, any of these review pages, whatever it is, the consensus is across the board that people want independence. Yeah, how much independence they're actually going to get in this industry might be a different story. They want someone who is on their side. Yep. That's that's it as well. Right. as we talk about with bias, like I go into this as unbiased as possible. Yeah, I think that's really important for me. But I have good bias and bad bias against people I would want to work with versus who I wouldn't want to work with. Yeah. And it's also the fact of in my role, only so many builders are willing to pay me as part of this service. And of course, that creates a bias. So we can't have these, you know, channel partners, these marketers, these builder brokers, whatever you want to call us, we're 100 % on your side and we're on bias. Well, I know several great builders that I would love to have on our panel, but we don't have them yet. But I would love to bring clients to and be like, this builder would be fabulous for you. Yeah. But The bias is they're not going to be willing to pay me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what do we do there? Yeah. I would love as we talked about, I would love to explore the opportunity to have like a buyer's agent type model for construction. So client paid fees, go to the builder and say, my commission is already paid for. I now want to talk to you about what level of inclusion, how are we going to stack up against other builders? What your process looks like. Make sure we get this matter of effect at the start from a costing point of view as as much as possible to always 100%, but as much as possible. And then if you're not paying a salesperson, you're not paying for a cost to acquire, you're not paying marketing, will you be willing to take your price down? Yeah, on that basis? Yeah. So this becomes either more affordable for the client. You might have slightly higher margins and I have a set commission fee that's paid by a client and I can be unbiased. And the whole experience is pretty same. Look at buyer's agents. know, the Build-A-Broker model exists for a reason. We have some really phenomenal wholesale builders and you know, it makes sense. You have some of these builders doing hundreds of millions of dollars a year within a few years. The model clearly works, but it doesn't work for every client. It can't. So when people... put on these posts about, want someone on my side. I think someone will come into that space soon. I think it kind of has to. This independent authority. But the difficulty in it is who is that person? What skills do they possess? How much money is reasonable money to spend on that service for a client? And what is a builder's willingness to bring a cost down if they're not having to pay for their display home, their marketing companies, their... salesperson. What did you say the other day? Was it three and a half percent? Three and a half percent. Of a contract sum? Yeah. Three and a half percent. Yeah. And then is that that's not including sales? No, no. So I know consultants on between two and a half and 3%. Yeah. I know consultants on 80,000 a year plus 2%. Yeah. I know. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that adds up hugely. They stack up. They do. I know. So it'd be interesting to see what that will look like and whether that can you know, potentially provide a solution across the industry. Yeah. If there is willingness from a builders to engage in it. Yeah, I think it would be a great, a great service. think, like, are you sort of also seeing Emily the same sort of thing? Like, when clients come to you, have they already crowdsourced a bit of the information that they're trying to get out of you. already come with some form of opinions based upon. absolutely loved this house because of this. I this one because of that. This is where I got some general pricing. I had one the other day who was like, Oh, $460,000 for a 350 maybe might be bigger 350 square meter house, three bathrooms on acreage, including HSTP. And I'm sitting there going, for math is nothing here. Yeah. I have a quote. Yeah. Okay. Well, what are you here for me now? Like what do you need from me in this situation? Because you've come to me because you don't trust that. Yeah. You just want some other options. And if you don't trust it, it's probably because it's too good to be true. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking a decent level of finish and you know, all of your inclusions and your flooring and this, that whatever else we know you and I know that's not enough money. Yeah. For that to be the case. But the regular Joe. doesn't really, you know what I Emily? That's where the service I think of what you provide is so important and we need to make sure that we're being really transparent as an industry. I would love, I know this sounds stupid because I run a business. I would love for this service not to be required. Yeah. I would love as an industry, we all wiped our hands of this and went, you know what? I'm gonna start telling people exactly how much this costs. I'm gonna give them examples. Hey, here's a recent build I did. know, within two K's of your house that you're interested in. This is how much the contract sum was. you know, if the display home that we operate out of costs $900,000 to build, but your average contract sum is 350 400. Yeah, why does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, we as an industry could do different. Yeah, but I don't know. Do I have to petition this? Like what has to happen? And again, like that's not drawing back to the fact that some builders already do this. but will they ever scale to anything bigger? Yeah. Yeah. It's getting really, really interesting. mean, I hope Anthony Blackshaw from Henley doesn't mind me actually saying this, but I spoke to him about their build, type and profile and what they're doing. And, and I think he, he said eventually, um, they want to shift. I'm not going to say the exact percentage, but they want to shift to more spec bills. Yeah. Right. Just so they've got a that customers can see that they can go on by no alterations. And there's no of this disparity between, oh, so that display home, my home's like that. Do you know what mean? Like they get the product and he's like, that is an easier model. And they're to do as many homes or more. reckons that way than the traditional sales. And it is a little bit of a shame in a way because I love it. get it from a business sense, but from a customer sense, then you're limited with what you can build because you're just buying what they're going to build for you. think I look at it, um, of being in the Strahd display we had at North Harbor. Right. So I'll display home cost what $400,000 to build at the time. It was a 237 square meter house, beautiful landscaping. All of these things, nice rake ceiling upgraded in the bathroom, no more than 10%. It was very clear as to what the upgrades were. And we told people about it. I didn't sell a single one of those. I was selling $900,000 to a million dollar, a million and a half dollar acreage builds from a display home that was not acreage that made no sense to reference it. you can, you know, where are you building an acreage display home realistically in Morton Bay? So it makes sense. But I think the premise that you have to have this really high end, expensive, luxurious feature to bring people in. Doesn't always make sense. And if you're like, well, if I don't have that, one will know we offer it. We, they will. Yeah. Do you know what I think they will. In my opinion, in my experience, people will still know your brand can still be represented. Stroud is known for their Acre trans style houses. Yeah. Yeah. You know what mean? People would happily, you know, Yeah. Hundred thousand or display, but average, you know, contract some closer to a million. It's still possible. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's again, Henley spoke about this, uh, Anthony there spoke about this. He was saying that, you know, the, he, he, they still loves the display home models. They still love the design center and everything like that. But at times it does cause more of a rift between the salespeople and the actual. client, then it does good. And it's, I found it really interesting. He was probably the only volume builder that spoke about that. And, um, but I think more and more are going to be able to be seeing this. mean, some of the comments from Reddit were around going through display homes and seeing it and then coming out and going, well, wait a minute. Yeah, it's, it's fun. I love walking through display homes. It's great. As I said, I just wish that when a client does experience these things and they get this sense of joy and luxury and you know, all of this warmth from it that they could also afford to build it. Yeah. Because I don't know. Yeah. It's pretty shit. When you're like, love X, Y and Z. How much does that cost? that people have no idea how much things cost. Right. You go on these little cost estimators are saying it's 1500 bucks to build a house per square meter. And you're like, well, what do you, it's a fucking joke. And that's fine. But people are literally so uneducated, they don't know what it costs. So they have this vision. I've loved this display home. I would love to live in this. Yeah. And they can just never have it. Yeah. What average person? I know. I know. You know what you've done actually, Emily, on this episode, I think I kicked off with these are some Reddit comments. You know, I sent them over to you, check these out. God, what's going on? You know, and I think in the end, what I've learned from you, and I certainly it's great without this discussion. I think it's a lot to do with, I think there's a bit of Definitely on education out of the client. I think there's a bit on us as builders to educate the clients better as well. a bit on us. But there does seem to be this third party of, I put up a post around, build a coach calculators over the weekend that just don't work. Similar sort of thing. Cost calculators for home, which we just went through that tells you, can build a fully specced home for about $1,500 a square meter. I think when you go and get that price and you take it to a builder, you're to go back to Reddit automatically in some way going to fuck off. because of that, but that's exactly it. You're either going to come back to Reddit or some sort of social platform and feel let down and feel it's because you start to feel. what happens, what happens as a result, they feel mistrust in the industry. They feel that they've been taken advantage of. They feel builders are greedy. That's a big consensus. These building companies are just greedy. What business doesn't. make money. We're not a non-profit here. Even that the profits just dispersed. It's not, you know, kept within the business. We're meant to make money. If you don't have a builder who's making money, don't pick them. Yeah. these, these things, these tools built by people who don't know the industry. Yeah. Usually if an estimator that I know, or, know, someone in that, know several, yeah, should be like, Hey, can you, I was like, if someone wanted to build that, And actually like, would love to build that. I don't have the skillset because I'm shit at IT, but you know, it's, something that would be a really useful tool. And instead what happens, you have people going, this builder quoted me 1600 bucks a square meter, or this one's built, you know, quoted me 2,500. And then people jump on these groups and go, what a joke. I built in 2020 for this much money. And you're like, well, congrats. But that's not life now. I would love it to be life now. Do you know what? think as an industry, we would have all loved that. Yeah. If this didn't happen. Absolutely. You know, don't get me wrong. People have made a lot of money off, you know, the real estate market in this space, but it's not like the prices of construction went up and then we just all lifted our markup to associate with it. That's not what happened. So, you know, percentage wise, Things didn't change. We made less money. I mean, because everything was cooked. made less money. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know how to fix that. if someone can kudos. And that was the other thing. I think there's a lot to this discussion. I think you've shared a lot, a lot on it, Emily, from your, love that, you know, having you on that you've got the perspective of actually talking to builders on the ground and customers on the ground. Who has that? And then can jump on this and go, Hey, this is what's sort of going on out there. That's cool. I think it's interesting not being tied to one builder to have only, yeah. Yeah. think that's really cool. Well, I think what we'll do is it would love, I would love Emily to kind of, we'll put out a bit of a summary of what's going on on some of the conversations that you kind of see out there as well for the community out there so they can have a look at. And I think one of the other things that I wanted to flag was also that I think part of the problem is some of the people that. coming into this industry and trying to make money out of the industry, but don't necessarily know the industry. think that's one of the biggest problem that is hurting the education of the customer really, because they're using those tools and all that. It was probably the biggest thing that I've. Well, it like the day of social media, right? I know. builders are literally hiring little social media girlies to come through the display, which is fine. That's all a tactic, but these people are. of paid influences. Why are we taking building advice on paid influences? or, you know, I know they have reach. I know why this happens. And that's, you know, really great. But if they're not providing informed content around it, which some of them aren't, then it kind of just perpetuates that we're fucking liars. And I think we could just not be anymore. I don't think everyone's intentionally doing it. Yeah, it's The way in which we choose to show up in our companies and present our companies is taken on face value. Yeah. And if that face value isn't, you know, very straightforward or, you know, it's trying to understand freaking smoke signals and Egyptian hieroglyphics. Yeah. It's too hard. someone who can barely read English. know, it's, way too hard. It's too hard. Yeah. It's too hard. love it. I thought that was a very cool discussion. I think there's a few learnings out of this one, Emily. I think we've got to get better as an industry at being transparent. Number one, that's my little take anyway. think I just have to have more confidence to be more transparent. Yeah. are really transparent though. yeah. But you have to hold back at some point because people, you know, I've got to work in this industry, in the industry that I love. Well, I'll tell you, the builders do love you because we hear from them. And I the other thing is I think a lot of the good builders, the good ones will back any, everything that you stand for. Emily... I so. these promotions and all that. So I'm, I'm, I'm not saying you're against them. I'm against them I know what a lot of good builders are all against them. Yeah. Because it's just again, fuels these conversations. I know builders who use them that are against them that use them. Yeah. I know. What are we doing? I know. I know. But as we do it, I think, as you said, we fuel our own echo chamber of anger of clients that feel mistrust and feel like we are just pulling the wool over their eyes every single day. So I think there's a few learnings out of this episode guys. As I said, during the episode, really looking to de-risk their build. that's interesting for me because back in the day when I was a marketing manager, it was all about aspiration. We would try and sell aspiring homes and hook them in that way. And we weren't even talking about, you know, will we be around in the next few years? What was the average build cost at that point in time? What was the land cost? When, you know, I have clients buying $650,000 blocks of land in suburbia Morayfield. Yeah. So probably half a million dollar builds. Yeah, yeah, okay. We were about 300,000. Yeah, you know, about 200,000. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, people would love to be aspirational. Okay. But you know, the, know, you now sit on 100 grand and you're almost living in poverty. Like, do know what I mean? What do you do? So people, think, get themselves really in shitty spaces because What I used to view as a million dollar home, I now know is a joke. So it's super disheartening. And, you know, people are having to be more realistic now. That's what we're finding people being more realistic. Yeah. I know it's going to cost me this and I just defeat it. So it's kind of also ruined the experience because people like, I've just got to do it to get myself into a house rather than I get to pick my colors. get to, you know, choose my plan. get to do all of these things. can't get a pre-established house because there's 50 other people at the open home and I'm never gonna have a shot. It's the whole consensus around housing has changed. So of course people are just flat now, to be honest, if they can even afford a house. Sorry to be depressing. No, I love your reality. No, it's very interesting. Like I'm turning my motto into like, you know, let's let's just set fire to the display home model and actually talk logistically as to what it means to build a house. Yeah. And transparently. Yeah. It'll change it. It's a real shame that you said that. Not shame. I didn't mean that way. But when you said, you know, the experience is getting ruined. It is. I really hate the feeling of that. I hate the feeling of it. yeah. For me, like. Makes me sad. It makes me sad. It makes me fucking sad Emily because I, you know, I've said before, I've been involved in a few building companies and I used to always love the handover moment. See how happy they were. And that's what I lived I'm not saying people aren't feeling that, but people are also going, oh gosh, I've just spent a million dollars on something that, you know, five years ago I would have spent $400,000 on. So this isn't a building industry issue. This is a housing issue. It's like, you know, I'm putting together my bingo card right now as to what's going to come from this new budget. What is things going to look like if building rights continue to fall? What incentives are going to further focus? I was like, you know what, I think we're going to lift the first home buyers grant up to a million for metropolitan areas. They'll continue with the, you know, the building grants. So people continue to flood. So you can't buy anything now for a million dollars. We start with a 5 % deposit scheme. You know, are we going to You know, yeah, correct. Are we going to look at the capital gains tax, right? Are we only going to reduce the concession for pre-established? What are we going to do for building? Yeah. You know, there's all these things that happen as a result that are going to directly impact our industry. And it's, you know, the, grants during COVID really did a doozy. And we're still paying for it. mate, some, yeah, we're still paying for it. Anyway, I'm going to finish it there Emily, but this is so insightful. Loved it. Thank you for today. Thank you. We will see you next Monday.