Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E124: Beating Cancer And Becoming Catholic with Tammy Peterson

Transcript

E124: Beating Cancer And Becoming Catholic with Tammy Peterson · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  How old were you when you met? Jordan, I was eight.
• 0:02
  He was seven. He told his dad in grade five he
• 0:04
  was going to marry me. Wow.
• 0:06
  Yeah. And I was like, I don't know if
• 0:07
  I'm going to marry him. He's kind of a Wildman.
• 0:09
  How did you beat a cancer diagnosis where they told you
• 0:12
  you were terminally ill and you're going to die in 10
• 0:14
  months? So what's your advice for Mom's
• 0:16
  then? What would be your?
• 0:17
  I think that they, I think that you have to.
• 0:19
  What was it that made you most interested in becoming Catholic?
• 0:22
  This woman brought me a rosary when I was in the hospital and
• 0:25
  so she came for five weeks every day and prayed the rosary with
• 0:28
  me. Welcome to the Lila Rose
• 0:34
  podcast. We have such a special treat
• 0:36
  today. We're going to have Tammy
• 0:37
  Peterson in studio today. We're actually in a different
• 0:40
  studio than usual today, as you can notice.
• 0:42
  But we're going to be talking with Tammy Peterson, who is the
• 0:45
  host of the Tammy Peterson podcast and someone that you
• 0:47
  might know a little bit about her husband, Jordan Peterson.
• 0:49
  And she's got an incredible story about her life, her faith
• 0:53
  and motherhood. I hope you enjoy this episode.
• 0:56
  Tammy Peterson, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:59
  It's very nice to meet you and thank you for the invitation.
• 1:01
  I'm so glad to meet you. It's a joy.
• 1:04
  I'm excited and I'm so happy for you.
• 1:06
  Welcome into the Catholic Church.
• 1:08
  Thank you. That's big news.
• 1:11
  My husband every day looks at me to see, he says you look, you
• 1:15
  look like you used to look when you were a child.
• 1:17
  He says, that's so beautiful to see.
• 1:20
  He said. I really, I really hope for you
• 1:22
  too. I I, I really like watching what
• 1:24
  you're doing now with your life to see where it goes and.
• 1:28
  Yeah, how sweet. Yeah, how sweet.
• 1:30
  How very sweet. Well, we've known each other
• 1:31
  since we were little kids, so we do know what each other looked
• 1:36
  like when we were children. Wow.
• 1:37
  Yeah, that's something you know. That is something.
• 1:41
  How old were you when you met? Jordan, I was eight, he was
• 1:43
  seven. Yeah.
• 1:45
  And we lived across the street from each other and went to
• 1:47
  school, and we were in the same grade.
• 1:50
  So we spent lots of time together until, you know, until
• 1:52
  I grew up first because I was older, and then we didn't have
• 1:56
  much to do with each other from probably 13 to 18.
• 2:00
  Then I asked him to be my grad escort and then he thought that
• 2:04
  was OK. So.
• 2:05
  So you made the first move. He's a grad escort.
• 2:08
  I would say I knew. I knew that that's what he
• 2:10
  wanted. Yes.
• 2:11
  It's like a prom. It's a prom.
• 2:13
  I knew that's what he wanted. And so it seemed right by that
• 2:18
  time. So seven and eight, were there
• 2:21
  crushes before the? He told his dad in grade five he
• 2:24
  was going to marry me. Wow.
• 2:26
  Yeah, and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to marry him.
• 2:28
  He's kind of a Wildman. Was he a Wildman?
• 2:31
  Well, I think he was bored in school because, you know, the
• 2:35
  first week he would have read all the books for the year and
• 2:38
  then they would say, oh, read them again.
• 2:40
  It wasn't very inspiring. So I think he just found other
• 2:43
  things to do. And of course that got him in
• 2:45
  trouble, so. What did you think about the
• 2:48
  wildness? I just thought maybe he wasn't
• 2:51
  marryable. He was a little too wild.
• 2:55
  But I went to see him when he was in Graduate School and he
• 2:58
  was writing a book and in Graduate School and he seemed to
• 3:01
  have friends and his house was clean and I thought, I think
• 3:06
  he's marryable. The.
• 3:07
  Clean house definitely says something.
• 3:09
  Isn't that funny? It does, yeah.
• 3:11
  Well, you have to make a home with them.
• 3:13
  So that's right. You don't want to.
• 3:14
  You would. Ideally, you'd be on the same
• 3:16
  page about a certain level of cleanliness.
• 3:18
  Yeah, that's right. So I'm I'm guessing when he
• 3:22
  first saw you, then he it was like a first thing fifth grade.
• 3:26
  He was just hardly maybe 910 hold would he have been?
• 3:30
  So he always had his eye on you. What did he try to ask you out
• 3:34
  like? No, he didn't.
• 3:35
  We played together, you know, So we played baseball and croquet
• 3:39
  and, you know, looked at the Northern Lights in the evening
• 3:42
  and, and, you know, he taught me how to play chess.
• 3:47
  We did all kinds of things together.
• 3:50
  But he says now, he said I just never had the nerve.
• 3:53
  I never had the nerve to. He said I wish I would have had
• 3:55
  the nerve back then but didn't. So when you asked him out, so to
• 4:00
  speak, or to take you to the event, it was for him.
• 4:03
  This is it. I'm going to marry her now.
• 4:04
  Now for sure she'll marry me. Or how confident.
• 4:07
  Was he? I think he was.
• 4:09
  He was pretty much in his boy young men group by that time,
• 4:14
  you know, although we went to the prom together afterwards,
• 4:18
  where we're from, and we're from a very rural place, you go out
• 4:22
  and hang around a campfire at night pretty much every night in
• 4:25
  the woods somewhere, you know, And he was, he was with his guy
• 4:29
  friends the whole night. So it wasn't, it wasn't as
• 4:32
  romantic as you might have thought it was.
• 4:35
  You know, we, we went together to prom, but that was that was
• 4:38
  it. So how old were you when you
• 4:40
  married? We were 2627.
• 4:44
  And then how? How did he ask you?
• 4:47
  He'd asked me a couple of times by then.
• 4:49
  He asked me when I was about 21. He wrote me a letter, said he
• 4:53
  was on his way to Europe, wondered if I'd come.
• 4:56
  And in the return spot on the envelope, he asked, will you
• 5:00
  marry me? And I thought really it's a
• 5:05
  little bit skeptical, really, I don't know about that kind of
• 5:09
  question in a, on a letter. So I, I don't think, I, I don't
• 5:14
  remember if I even responded to that one, He asked.
• 5:17
  No response is a no probably. It's a not yet.
• 5:20
  Is that what that was? And then he asked me again and I
• 5:22
  said not yet. And, and then after I was done,
• 5:28
  my university board pretty much at the end of my university
• 5:31
  career and I'd moved from Alberta to Montreal, which is
• 5:35
  about 3000 miles away. And I didn't know, but he had, I
• 5:40
  was living in Ottawa doing my degree and he had moved to
• 5:43
  Montreal and he phoned me from Montreal, said I'm living 2 hour
• 5:48
  drive away from you. Oh, oh, that's interesting.
• 5:51
  So he asked me for Thanksgiving dinner and I I went and I looked
• 5:55
  at him and I thought, Yep, you're marryable.
• 5:58
  Wow. And then shortly after.
• 6:00
  Yeah. Then I came, I moved to
• 6:01
  Montreal, OK, and we spent Christmas together and often we
• 6:06
  spent Christmas together. We'd see each other once a year,
• 6:08
  really. We had our own lives, but we
• 6:10
  would see each other at Christmas.
• 6:12
  And he asked me again and I said yes.
• 6:15
  And so then that was different because he'd asked me a number
• 6:19
  of times before that. It's never been yes.
• 6:22
  So that was different. And so then we were married, I
• 6:25
  think, at the end of that summer.
• 6:28
  So. Do you take vitamins?
• 6:30
  If you do, you should be shopping at
• 6:31
  weheartnutrition.com. weheartnutrition.com is a
• 6:34
  company that shares your values. This is a pro-life company
• 6:37
  that's donating 10% of all their money back to the pro-life
• 6:40
  movement, but it's also an amazing product.
• 6:42
  I love We Heart Nutrition because it's a family run
• 6:44
  business that's made in the USA. All of their vitamins use the
• 6:46
  highest quality research backed ingredients, always in the most
• 6:50
  bioavailable form so that it's easiest for your body to absorb
• 6:53
  the nutrition. In addition, did you know that
• 6:55
  most vitamin companies today are indirectly or directly reporting
• 6:58
  Planned Parenthood? I mean, it's absolutely
• 7:00
  horrible, but when you buy a lot of things in the grocery store
• 7:02
  or the drugstore, unfortunately you're tied up in business with
• 7:04
  the abortion industry. Not so with We Heart Nutrition.
• 7:07
  They made top of the line products where you're also
• 7:09
  supporting your values when you shop with them.
• 7:12
  So go to weheartnutrition.com today and they've got a great
• 7:15
  deal going where if you use the code of Lila, you get 20% off
• 7:18
  your order. I love We Heart Nutritions
• 7:20
  packages because they're actually designed to meet you
• 7:22
  where you're at. If you need extra iron, if you
• 7:24
  are post Natal or prenatal, if you're trying to conceive, if
• 7:27
  you're postmenopause or premenopausal, they actually
• 7:29
  design these best in class vitamin bundles specifically for
• 7:33
  your needs and they're also using the most bioidentical
• 7:36
  ingredients so that they're most easily absorbed by your body.
• 7:40
  Check out weheartnutrition.com today.
• 7:41
  Weheartnutrition also has a 60 day no questions asked return
• 7:45
  policy. So for whatever reason you don't
• 7:47
  like the product, it's not working, you can just return it
• 7:49
  and get a full refund. That's weheartnutrition.com and
• 7:52
  use the code Lila at checkout for 20% off your order.
• 7:55
  Did you? Think when you got married, then
• 7:57
  in your mid 20s, the way that your life is now to children,
• 8:02
  the the amazing journey you've been on with Jordan, and then
• 8:05
  your faith conversion, even the newest thing.
• 8:08
  Did you have any idea? No, I wouldn't say so.
• 8:11
  You know, I always thought I wanted to marry him to see what
• 8:14
  would happen in his life. So because I knew he was a
• 8:17
  remarkable person from the time I was a little kid, which was
• 8:20
  partly, I think why I stayed friends with him, because he was
• 8:23
  an interesting, he was the most interesting person in town.
• 8:27
  So I wanted to be around him. He was always curious about
• 8:31
  different things. It was always interesting to be
• 8:32
  there. And so, you know, that's why I
• 8:37
  married him. I thought, you know, if I don't
• 8:39
  marry him, I won't know what happens.
• 8:40
  So I guess I have to marry him. And so now I'm finding out what
• 8:45
  happens. And I didn't know what that
• 8:50
  would be. What has happened?
• 8:52
  What has happened? I think that, you know, when we
• 8:56
  were first, when he first decide, when I said yes, that I
• 9:00
  would marry him, he said, OK, so we're going to get married.
• 9:02
  So the first thing is, is we have to tell the truth.
• 9:05
  And no one had ever said that to me before.
• 9:07
  Not like that. And I was still finishing my
• 9:11
  degree and I went home and I really thought about it.
• 9:14
  I thought about it, you know, I carried a New Testament Bible in
• 9:18
  my pocket and I went around to everything I was doing.
• 9:21
  And I was, I'm a pretty creative person, so I was taking art
• 9:26
  classes. I'd been an art model, so I'd
• 9:29
  modeled quite a bit nude in high schools.
• 9:32
  I thought, oh, I don't know if that's a reasonable thing
• 9:35
  because I was thinking of the ethics of everything.
• 9:37
  But of course I've drawn lots of nude models and it's, it's an
• 9:43
  exercise in anatomy and perspective and everything.
• 9:46
  It's an amazing thing to draw a human body.
• 9:49
  And I wanted to learn about art. So my best way in them, since I
• 9:54
  had no money, was to make money and be in an art class.
• 9:58
  And so then I started art modeling.
• 10:00
  But I had to look at that and see if that was a reasonable
• 10:03
  thing for me to be doing. And I was finished my degree and
• 10:08
  I was living with another man. So I was living with another man
• 10:11
  when Jordan called me. A man you were romantically
• 10:14
  involved in? Yes, Really.
• 10:16
  Well, he had said, Jordan had said two years before that he
• 10:18
  was going to come to Ottawa and he didn't.
• 10:21
  He was supposed to get a research position and he didn't
• 10:25
  get it and decided not to come. And I think I was getting to,
• 10:29
  you know, 24 or so. I was getting ready to settle
• 10:34
  down and I got a boyfriend. I had a boyfriend and we moved
• 10:39
  in together. And so when I went to Montreal
• 10:43
  to see Jordan, I had to come home and and tell my boyfriend
• 10:46
  that my oldest friend and I were going to get married.
• 10:51
  And that was the end of that. So you were.
• 10:54
  Not just dating someone, but living with someone.
• 10:57
  When you agreed to marry Jordan? Yes.
• 10:59
  Well, when I when I saw him and I thought you would marry him.
• 11:02
  No, it wasn't. It wasn't.
• 11:03
  It wasn't that stage quite yet. No, no, no.
• 11:05
  Did Jordan know about this other man?
• 11:09
  I think he had never met him. And he hadn't come to see me
• 11:14
  since I had a relationship with this fellow either.
• 11:17
  So he may have known about him, but not very much.
• 11:22
  Yeah. I wonder if that in any way
• 11:24
  helped initiate him to say I need to try to secure Tammy.
• 11:28
  Or perhaps it wasn't even on his radar.
• 11:30
  I don't know. That's a question for him.
• 11:31
  That's a question for him. Yes.
• 11:33
  Yeah. What was the what were all the
• 11:34
  impetuses around the around that time?
• 11:37
  So. So you then break up with this
• 11:40
  man. You know, you're about to then
• 11:42
  you begin the process of Christmas.
• 11:43
  You do Christmas together. Yeah, well, I had just finished
• 11:46
  my degree. My parents came out from my
• 11:48
  graduation and drove me to Montreal and left me there.
• 11:51
  And I got a place to live in one of the apartments of one of the
• 11:55
  other graduate students that Jordan was going to school with.
• 11:58
  So I lived with her not very far away from his house.
• 12:02
  And we dated and we dated and I'd already said, yes, you know,
• 12:06
  that I was going to marry him. And he was busy writing a book,
• 12:10
  going to classes. He was very active with the
• 12:14
  other students. They played baseball.
• 12:17
  They had baseball teams, and they had Friday nights at the
• 12:21
  Thompson Graduate House where they would dance and listen to
• 12:24
  music and, I think argue and, you know, do the things that
• 12:29
  people do when they're thinking of big ideas.
• 12:32
  And I didn't, it didn't seem to be moving along as fast as I
• 12:39
  thought it would, I guess, when I said that I would marry him.
• 12:41
  And so by the end of March, I insisted, I insisted, you know,
• 12:50
  either either we're going to get married or we're not going to
• 12:51
  get married. You had to, you had to move on
• 12:53
  if it wasn't going to actually. Happen.
• 12:55
  Yep, that's right. Or maybe he was moving on.
• 12:57
  I didn't know. I had to ask.
• 12:59
  And so that's when we decided that we'd be married in August.
• 13:03
  And so then things moved along quite quickly.
• 13:06
  So it's now been how many years of marriage?
• 13:08
  35 years. Wow.
• 13:09
  Congratulations. Thank you.
• 13:11
  It's beautiful. What has been the biggest
• 13:13
  surprise of those 35 years? Well, the children were a
• 13:19
  beautiful surprise. And that I could and that I
• 13:25
  could be there with Jordan to raise them because he was very
• 13:27
  good at teaching me how to take care of children.
• 13:33
  I was the youngest in my family. He was the eldest in this
• 13:35
  family. His dad's a teacher.
• 13:37
  He had a good family. Yeah.
• 13:39
  His mum stayed home. She was trained as a nurse.
• 13:43
  She stayed home. And he.
• 13:46
  So he, he just had a very good, well, all the psychology
• 13:51
  training too, right? He had a very good idea of
• 13:55
  discipline and priorities. And so when we had our first
• 14:00
  baby, I was thinking, you know, I had older sisters and one was
• 14:04
  a pharmacist who owned a pharmacy.
• 14:06
  One was a nurse who had her master's in nursing and was, you
• 14:10
  know, busily fighting in her career to move upwards.
• 14:15
  They were both married, my sisters.
• 14:17
  They were both having kids, but they were also very much in
• 14:22
  their careers. And I was thinking, let's see,
• 14:25
  now, who am I? And I thought, am I?
• 14:28
  I imagined myself, you know, in a suit with a briefcase in a big
• 14:33
  building. No, that's not me.
• 14:35
  That's that's definitely not who I am.
• 14:37
  And Jordan was attentive enough that to to the necessities of
• 14:43
  family that we discussed whether I would go to work or stay home.
• 14:48
  And we also looked at he was not finished his graduate studies
• 14:53
  yet. I had just finished my degree.
• 14:56
  I was working as a massage therapist.
• 14:58
  So we didn't have loads of money.
• 15:00
  We didn't have enough money to put our kids in daycare and have
• 15:04
  me go to work because then I wouldn't make any money anyway.
• 15:07
  I would just give all the money to somebody else to take care of
• 15:09
  my children while doing something out of the home.
• 15:12
  So it didn't seem worthwhile. And so I decided to stay home
• 15:17
  and take care of the kids. And then we moved to the States
• 15:19
  and I didn't have a green card so I had to stay home.
• 15:22
  And I just had some a woman down the street who had a baby and I
• 15:27
  took her a gift. She had a baby at the same time
• 15:30
  as my cousin had a baby at home. And I couldn't be with my
• 15:33
  cousin. So I thought I would be with
• 15:35
  this woman. And she gave me her kids three
• 15:39
  times a week. She went back to work.
• 15:41
  And so her kids that were the same age as my kids played with
• 15:45
  my kids three days a week. And so I was at home, but I had
• 15:48
  other kids come in and I did the same thing in Toronto, really.
• 15:52
  I went to university. Once we moved to Toronto, I
• 15:54
  wanted to get my art degree. But Michaela became I'll with
• 16:00
  the arthritis. She was in a wheelchair.
• 16:04
  So how old was she? She was diagnosed when she was
• 16:07
  7. But I think when she was a
• 16:10
  little little guy and you have little guys, sometimes you put
• 16:13
  your kids on your, their shoulders.
• 16:15
  Well, if you put her on your shoulders, then you put her
• 16:18
  down, she'd cry. It was already in her hips.
• 16:20
  When she was little, little, little.
• 16:23
  I think as soon as we started feeding her, she started having
• 16:26
  inflammation. And so I, we knew there was
• 16:30
  something wrong, but we didn't know what it was.
• 16:31
  It was finally diagnosed when she was in grade two.
• 16:34
  And Oh my goodness, that was a big wallop because I had known.
• 16:39
  I remember when my hometown there had been, my sister had a
• 16:42
  very good friend and her older sister had rheumatoid arthritis
• 16:46
  and she couldn't even use her hands, you know, and she could
• 16:48
  barely walk. She was, so her joints were so
• 16:53
  large, you know, and Michaela had 38 joints affected.
• 16:58
  So when we finally took her, you know, I took her to a doctor.
• 17:05
  They couldn't really see anything.
• 17:06
  Her arthritis was called a dry arthritis.
• 17:08
  So it wasn't swollen really. So they couldn't really see how
• 17:11
  many joints were affected. But it was her feet really at
• 17:14
  first. And she would slow down when she
• 17:16
  walked and we were, or she'd come home after school and she
• 17:19
  seemed she wouldn't be taking care of herself the way she was.
• 17:23
  And I didn't know what was wrong.
• 17:26
  Something was wrong. And finally, someone, one of
• 17:30
  these doctors or at a walk in clinic or something said go to
• 17:33
  sick Kids hospital and just go to emergency because then the
• 17:36
  specialist will come down and they'll, they'll diagnose her.
• 17:39
  So the next time I thought that she I needed to see someone, I
• 17:42
  took her to sick kids and the rheumatologist came down and
• 17:46
  checked her out and they saw 38 joints affected and they told me
• 17:49
  it was arthritis. And I was just like, wow, wow,
• 17:53
  what are we going to do? And I can remember taking her to
• 17:56
  the zoo in a wheelchair and poor little girl, poor thing.
• 18:01
  You know, she'd been very active.
• 18:02
  She was always a very sporty girl.
• 18:04
  She was on playing hockey and baseball and just playing tag
• 18:09
  with kids outside all the time. We liked our kids to play, so
• 18:12
  they're just always outside. But she couldn't do any of those
• 18:16
  things anymore. And I ended up putting her in an
• 18:19
  art class because I thought, well, maybe, maybe this is
• 18:22
  something that she can enjoy even though and she read so much
• 18:26
  because she could sit and read, right?
• 18:28
  So she became A, and she might have been a reader anyway, but
• 18:31
  that really she went through the books in a flash, just like her
• 18:36
  father, really. And then we got her a drug.
• 18:41
  And I was loathed to put her on drugs.
• 18:43
  I didn't want to put her on drugs.
• 18:45
  And I knew that food had something to do with it.
• 18:47
  You know, if she ate an orange, your toe would swell up.
• 18:49
  So I was like this. It's food related.
• 18:52
  But I, I had no idea. I had no idea that it was
• 18:56
  practically all food because now of course she only eats meat
• 19:00
  because everything else gives her arthritis.
• 19:02
  It gives the inflammation. So was was the challenge of
• 19:06
  having you know, now you're you're a stay at home mom.
• 19:09
  Well, it sounds like you're doing some work and helping care
• 19:11
  for other kids too, but and working to care for your own
• 19:13
  kids. But you have these unexpected
• 19:15
  health issues with Michaela. Was that would you say in the
• 19:19
  arc of things? You know, Jordan has had extreme
• 19:22
  health issues even in the last few years you faced cancer.
• 19:26
  There have been many struggles you've had to we've had to
• 19:29
  endure. How does that fit in in your
• 19:32
  experience was that was seeing your little one go through that
• 19:35
  the worst of them all? What was?
• 19:36
  What's been the? Biggest challenge, the worst?
• 19:38
  I think that was the worst, yeah.
• 19:40
  To have a sick child, that's very hard to see.
• 19:43
  That was very hard to see. What gave you the strength
• 19:45
  during that time to? You know I wasn't.
• 19:48
  What was your faith like at that time?
• 19:50
  Yeah, my faith was, my faith was pretty spiritual, wasn't
• 19:55
  religious. You know, I had gone to church
• 19:58
  till I was 12 in the Protestant church.
• 20:02
  My grandmothers were in the Protestant church and one
• 20:05
  grandmother was in the choir and the other one played the organ
• 20:08
  in another church, you know. And so they went every every
• 20:11
  Sunday and they were, they were active.
• 20:14
  They didn't live that close to me, but, but I was well aware of
• 20:18
  their faith. This I was going to tell you a
• 20:22
  story. About one grandmother so my
• 20:26
  mom's mom, my mom's mom, she was a nurse and she was a
• 20:34
  philosopher. So she used to be very good at
• 20:40
  explaining the trial she had gone through in in a way that we
• 20:44
  could understand and she wasn't afraid to talk to us about
• 20:47
  anything. And so as teenagers, we became
• 20:50
  quite close to her because she could relate to us, You know,
• 20:54
  what was her name? Emily.
• 20:57
  Yeah. And she outlived my mother, all
• 21:01
  her kids and her two husbands. And every day she'd wake up and
• 21:06
  she'd look outside and she'd say, isn't it a beautiful day?
• 21:08
  But today would be a good day to die.
• 21:11
  So she had this philosophy of life that was that would of
• 21:16
  gratitude, I would say of gratitude, but also had lived to
• 21:21
  lose absolutely everything and. Did she believe in heaven?
• 21:27
  She was, she said she. Went to church on Sunday.
• 21:28
  So she believed they, she didn't talk.
• 21:30
  She had, she didn't talk to me about it, but but her, her, her
• 21:38
  chats with us were always about something transcendent.
• 21:45
  You know, that she definitely wasn't a materialist.
• 21:48
  She definitely wasn't. And so I had that, I had that as
• 21:52
  a child. The funny thing that happened
• 21:55
  was that now that I've been a Catholic, I talked to my my
• 21:59
  priest quite often. He's very kind and he had to
• 22:01
  zoom calls with me. But I was, I'd hurt my back.
• 22:05
  My husband was on tour and he wasn't feeling well.
• 22:07
  He had fevers and my daughter was having some trouble, marital
• 22:13
  trouble, but with her ex-husband.
• 22:15
  So not in her marriage now, but, you know, some miscommunication
• 22:20
  there. And I told my priest and he
• 22:22
  said, you know, I have this young priest who's a friend, you
• 22:25
  should call him. And I thought for a couple days,
• 22:29
  I thought, OK, So I phoned him. He was Mexican, young Mexican
• 22:33
  guy in Newfoundland, wearing his downfield coat under his
• 22:36
  cassock. He showed me that it's like snow
• 22:38
  outside. This was only in April, so it
• 22:42
  was supposed to be spring, but not in Newfoundland.
• 22:44
  He said, God has put me there. I don't here.
• 22:45
  I don't know for how long. It was so cute, but he began to
• 22:50
  pray and he was praying in Spanish.
• 22:52
  So, you know, I don't know exactly what he was saying, but
• 22:55
  he would stop every now and then and he'd say, I'm I get that
• 23:00
  your grandmother, you're close to your grandmother.
• 23:03
  And I said, well, I was close to both my grandmother's.
• 23:06
  And he said, well, your grandmother's with you.
• 23:08
  He said she's with you always now.
• 23:12
  And I thought, I wonder which grandmother, because I thought
• 23:16
  it's probably my mum's mum, but it could be my dad's mum because
• 23:21
  she was a lovely, every grandchild thought that they
• 23:24
  were her favorite. She was that kind of woman, you
• 23:27
  know. So she was really a lovely,
• 23:29
  lovely lady. And so I phoned my sister
• 23:33
  because a week before that we had been planning my dad's
• 23:37
  celebration of life. And so it was my brother, my
• 23:40
  sister and I on a phone call. And for some reason our baptism
• 23:43
  came up. I don't know why.
• 23:45
  Turns out that our parents didn't baptize us that my
• 23:48
  grandmother did. Wow.
• 23:50
  With their permission. I don't know.
• 23:52
  Oh, wow. So I don't think so.
• 23:54
  I don't think so. So this is so.
• 23:56
  This is interesting. So I phoned her and I said,
• 24:00
  which grandmother baptized us? Well, it was, it was Emily.
• 24:06
  OK, I said, that makes sense because Emily was born Catholic,
• 24:10
  right? She was born Catholic.
• 24:12
  She grew up Catholic. When she was a young woman, she
• 24:16
  decided to change our religion to Protestant.
• 24:18
  Now I'm thinking she's she's done this and now her daughter
• 24:22
  is married and her daughter has children and I'm my brother is 8
• 24:27
  years older than me and she goes to visit and none of us are
• 24:30
  baptized. What's she going to think about
• 24:33
  that? She grew up in in a Catholic
• 24:37
  faith with faith, and now her grandchildren aren't growing up
• 24:41
  with any faith at all. And then my mom and dad go away
• 24:45
  golfing for the weekend and she's sitting there and she's
• 24:47
  thinking, it's Sunday tomorrow. Let's.
• 24:50
  Just. Do it.
• 24:51
  Let's just do it. So she took all of us and
• 24:53
  baptized us. Off This was baptism.
• 24:55
  I'm sure it was a proper baptism, but was it in the
• 24:57
  Catholic Church or the Protestant?
• 24:58
  Protestant Church. But it was with water.
• 25:00
  In the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit, Yeah.
• 25:03
  Did you when you were becoming but?
• 25:04
  I was a baby so I didn't even remember that did.
• 25:06
  You have that, Sir. Did you have evidence of the
• 25:08
  baptism or were you? I have evidence of the baptism.
• 25:11
  So you, when you entered the Catholic system, were confirmed
• 25:13
  you had the Yes, you were. It was a legit baptism.
• 25:16
  That's right. Amazing.
• 25:18
  Yeah. And now she's with me and I've
• 25:21
  now that I've come back to the Catholic faith.
• 25:25
  Perhaps you know that when she saw our Lord after her death and
• 25:29
  he said, you know, come back. Maybe Mother Mary, you know,
• 25:33
  gave her that hug and now her prayers, maybe for you or what
• 25:36
  brought you into the church. Yeah, yeah, maybe.
• 25:39
  So. When my daughter was was ill, I
• 25:41
  would my mother died in 2007. Michaela would have been 92.
• 25:47
  She would have been about 13. She was, she was starting to
• 25:51
  have health issues, even though she had a drug that had worked
• 25:54
  very well. The damage to her joints had
• 25:56
  already occurred when she was young.
• 25:58
  And so by the time she was 17, she had to have an ankle and a
• 26:02
  hip replacement. And they said she would have
• 26:04
  multiple replacements. And I had been praying to my
• 26:08
  mother, but I realized now I was praying to what was best in my
• 26:12
  mother, and that's Mother Mary. And so I was praying.
• 26:17
  So I prayed every day really to my mother, to Mother Mary,
• 26:22
  because I was, well, desperate. I was desperate for my daughter.
• 26:27
  And so I had been praying for a long time.
• 26:30
  And you know, when I went into the church, when I was a
• 26:32
  Protestant, a little girl in the Protestant, I looked for my
• 26:35
  mother Mary there too, and I didn't see her.
• 26:38
  She wasn't obvious. It's harder to find her.
• 26:40
  Yes, it was harder to find her, but I was looking for her there.
• 26:43
  And I don't know why. Maybe I don't know why.
• 26:47
  What was your relationship like with your mother, Tammy?
• 26:50
  It was good. It was good.
• 26:52
  And she was on my side for sure. She was on my side, but she was,
• 26:55
  she had her own challenges, you know, she didn't really trust my
• 27:01
  dad. So she did a pretty good job of
• 27:04
  turning me away from my dad. And the I only found that out
• 27:09
  when she was older and she had dementia.
• 27:11
  She was, she'd had trouble finding words.
• 27:15
  And so Jordan decided that we could give her some Ritalin and
• 27:19
  see if we could help her to still communicate.
• 27:24
  But it made her paranoid and she started believing that my dad
• 27:28
  was having an affair. And I thought, this is exactly
• 27:30
  what it was like when I was in high school.
• 27:32
  She was worrying about dad. And here's my father taking care
• 27:37
  of her, you know, holding, holding extra clothes and, and
• 27:43
  diapers in a backpack and taking her everywhere with him.
• 27:47
  He was her constant companion and fed her and, and clothed her
• 27:52
  and bathed her until just a, a few, I think a couple of months
• 27:58
  before she died, when, when we first put her in a home.
• 28:01
  So he was, he loved. Her he was faithful.
• 28:06
  He was faithful, he loved her and she was.
• 28:09
  I think she it's too bad she would have.
• 28:12
  I know she would have wanted to trust him, but something
• 28:15
  happened to her so that she so that she didn't.
• 28:18
  And of course, I was at home with my mom.
• 28:21
  My siblings left when I was 12. So I was at home with my parents
• 28:25
  only from 12 to 18. And by the time 18 came along, I
• 28:30
  was ready to leave because there was too much.
• 28:34
  I couldn't understand where they were.
• 28:37
  Like tension. Yeah, there was tension.
• 28:39
  I couldn't. I couldn't.
• 28:40
  But they stayed married. They stayed married, Yeah.
• 28:43
  And I think she was happier once they left this little town in
• 28:46
  northern Alberta, they moved to Vancouver Island.
• 28:50
  And I think things were better than.
• 28:52
  But by then she had, I think she had dementia from the time she
• 28:55
  was about 50 and died when she was 74.
• 28:58
  It was. It's a very slow prefrontal
• 29:00
  dementia, frontal temporal dementia.
• 29:03
  It's it's slow. My sister now has it.
• 29:05
  She's 70 and she's in a nursing home.
• 29:08
  It's a brutal disease. Was there a moment that you
• 29:12
  especially with your relationship with Jordan as it
• 29:14
  developed that you thought about your parents relationship and
• 29:17
  thought I don't want, you know, I wasn't the aspect of it or.
• 29:21
  I wasn't going to do anything. When I left home.
• 29:23
  I told my parents that I was never coming home again, and I
• 29:26
  was not taking any of their troubles with me.
• 29:28
  Of course, that's not true because you leave home with what
• 29:32
  you know. Yeah, that's right.
• 29:35
  So when we got married, we had to go through all of those all
• 29:39
  of those issues, and we did. And George was really good
• 29:43
  because he insisted that we get to the bottom of things every
• 29:47
  time. Issues meaning this sort of
• 29:49
  tendency to maybe distrust or to question.
• 29:52
  Oh yeah, well, my dad drank. My dad, he drank.
• 29:56
  And so if people came over for supper, it would make me
• 29:59
  anxious. Or if we were invited to go out
• 30:01
  to a party often. And once I was married, not when
• 30:06
  I was single, I could go do all those things.
• 30:08
  But once I had a man with me, if I was going to go out to those
• 30:12
  things, I thought something, I felt like something was going to
• 30:15
  go wrong. And so we had to talk through
• 30:18
  all of that, all my fears and. And that was perhaps the
• 30:24
  conditioning of how you saw your mother respond to your father,
• 30:28
  and then it was almost imprinted on you.
• 30:30
  So with Jordan, even though he's a totally different man, of
• 30:32
  course, it was this reaction that was learned.
• 30:35
  I think when you get married, you bring your parents marriage
• 30:39
  in to your life and then it's up to you if you want to relive
• 30:46
  that or if you want to transcend it, you know, if you want to
• 30:52
  understand it and transcend it. But one thing I learned was that
• 30:55
  I'd made an inner vow not never to go home right.
• 31:01
  When I was 18. Back to your parents home,
• 31:03
  physically into their home, yes. So there was a big yes, a big
• 31:09
  separation at that point, yes. Did they know that you had made
• 31:12
  that vow? I said.
• 31:13
  I said it to them. So you were angry?
• 31:15
  With them, I was angry with them, Immature, angry,
• 31:18
  self-righteous, you know? Young. 18.
• 31:23
  Yeah, So what? Which did you go home
• 31:26
  eventually? Oh sure, How did you?
• 31:27
  How did you one year I didn't go home for a year and a half and I
• 31:30
  saw how much my parents had aged and I thought, well, I'm not
• 31:33
  doing that again. No, I, I came home in the
• 31:35
  beginning, in the summers at Christmas, except for one year,
• 31:40
  I, I came home all the time. And in the summers when I had
• 31:42
  kids, my sisters had kids too. And I wanted, we wanted them all
• 31:47
  to know each other. So we came home every summer.
• 31:49
  And of course, Jordan wanted to always see his family and they
• 31:52
  were both Westerners, so we saw them both.
• 31:55
  A big thank you to our sponsor Good Ranchers.
• 31:57
  Good Ranchers is America's meat delivered.
• 32:00
  Did you know that when you go to the grocery store, up to 90% of
• 32:03
  the meat, even if it says product of the USA is not from
• 32:06
  the USA, it's imported in. And then they slap on that label
• 32:09
  product of the USA. With Good Ranchers, 100% of the
• 32:12
  meat, the poultry, the pork, all of it is farmed and raised in
• 32:16
  the United States. What is so awesome about Good
• 32:19
  Ranchers is that they're a pro-life, pro family company
• 32:21
  that shares there's your values and sends you absolutely
• 32:23
  delicious meat. I love their steaks.
• 32:25
  I love their chicken. Their chicken is delicious and
• 32:27
  juicy and tender and you're going to love it too.
• 32:29
  Right now, Good Ranchers has a special going on where you get
• 32:31
  $100 off your first order plus a year supply of free Wagyu
• 32:37
  burgers. Let me repeat that, You get a
• 32:39
  year supply of free Wagyu burgers.
• 32:41
  That sounds really good and all you have to do is become a
• 32:44
  monthly subscriber and get your box of delicious chicken and
• 32:47
  steaks directly to your door. So go to goodranchers.com today,
• 32:51
  become a subscriber and get up to $100 off plus a year's worth
• 32:55
  of free Wagyu burgers. Don't forget to use the code
• 32:58
  Lila at checkout to get up to $100 off and a full year supply
• 33:02
  of free Wagyu burgers. That's goodranchers.com and use
• 33:06
  the code Lila at checkout. What's your advice to to to
• 33:10
  areas I want to take? That's your advice to mothers.
• 33:12
  First of all, about you talked about this decision you made
• 33:16
  with Jordan about deciding I'm not going to be this career
• 33:19
  woman. I'm going to focus on the
• 33:20
  children and the home. And you know, that's of course
• 33:23
  in hot controversy today. It is, you know, how much how
• 33:26
  much can you work? How much should you work?
• 33:28
  What's the role of work? Obviously mothers work, the work
• 33:31
  of the home is work. So I don't like the distinction
• 33:33
  anyways of working mom versus stay at home, Stay at home
• 33:35
  mothers work. Working mothers are mothers too.
• 33:37
  So and we all, we all have different kinds of work.
• 33:40
  But what would be your advice for maybe the woman who you
• 33:44
  know, it sounds like you had many creative pursuits.
• 33:46
  You were an artist. You are an.
• 33:47
  Artist and I kept that at when I was at home.
• 33:50
  Yeah, walk us through. Your advice then?
• 33:52
  A massage therapist, because I knew that I could do that on my
• 33:55
  own and I could do that in my home.
• 33:57
  So I ended up even, I stopped going to art school when
• 34:02
  Michaela was ill and then I stayed home again.
• 34:05
  So I only, I went to art school when they were in grade one and
• 34:09
  kindergarten and I went to and I took design because I could go
• 34:14
  to university between 9:00 and 4:00.
• 34:17
  And so I could be there after school.
• 34:19
  I could be there walk them to school in the morning and be
• 34:22
  there after school. So I didn't want, I, I would
• 34:26
  have liked to be an artist and just stay in the studio till
• 34:29
  midnight. But that wasn't my, that wasn't
• 34:33
  my option because I had these little kids and I knew that kids
• 34:38
  are happiest when they're close to home.
• 34:42
  That that's one of the things that makes children happy is if
• 34:45
  they have to go somewhere that, and so we lived very close to
• 34:48
  school so they could walk to school and walk home.
• 34:50
  And I knew that would make them happy.
• 34:52
  And I like to be there for lunch.
• 34:53
  And so I I was around all the time.
• 34:57
  So you you adjusted your creative pursuits and your work
• 35:02
  to serve the children's needs first.
• 35:04
  So their needs were always met and you were very present.
• 35:07
  And I think that's, that sounds like an ideal because I do think
• 35:10
  there's a tendency to extreme sometimes in our culture of
• 35:14
  extreme of, you know, career woman, you know, give the kids
• 35:17
  the bare minimum, drop them off at the daycare, you know, climb
• 35:20
  the corporate ladder. And then the extreme on the
• 35:21
  other side of saying a woman's only place is in the home.
• 35:26
  And any kind of income she's bringing in or work outside of
• 35:29
  the home is somehow a violation of her feminine, you know, duty
• 35:32
  of some kind. You know, again, these are
• 35:34
  extremes. I had a dream.
• 35:36
  I had a dream when I was deciding these things and I
• 35:39
  dreamt about my father's mother, the one who'd played the organ
• 35:43
  and who thought every whose, whose grandchild thought that
• 35:47
  they were her favorite. So she was, she was a, a
• 35:49
  grandmother to us. She was just a grandmother.
• 35:53
  I never saw her work out of the home.
• 35:55
  I had a dream about her and I dreamt I went into the closet
• 35:58
  and her shoes were in the closet and I put her shoes on and they
• 36:00
  were a bit too tight. And so I decided that although I
• 36:05
  wanted to stay home, that wouldn't be all I did.
• 36:08
  That I had my own individual pursuits that were going to
• 36:12
  sometimes be put on hold because I'd have a small baby and then
• 36:15
  all of my time would be taken up fostering that family.
• 36:20
  But otherwise, I would continue to pursue the things that that
• 36:29
  came up as as necessary for me. And that wasn't a corporate
• 36:34
  choice, but it was definitely individual creative pursuits
• 36:39
  that that was definitely, I had to do that and I couldn't put it
• 36:43
  completely aside. And it's so.
• 36:45
  It said so in my dreams, so it seemed right.
• 36:49
  Sounds like it's served you well too.
• 36:51
  Yeah, I think it has served me well.
• 36:53
  We built a number of rebuilt a number of houses, and now our
• 36:59
  children aren't afraid of buying a house and fixing it up.
• 37:02
  They're not afraid of that at all.
• 37:04
  In fact, I'm quite shocked at how much they do.
• 37:07
  I thought, Oh my goodness, I've created renovation monsters.
• 37:12
  So what's your advice for Mom's then?
• 37:14
  What would be your? I think that they, I think that
• 37:15
  you have to really ask in a, in a, in a transcendent manner, you
• 37:25
  have to ask what it, what it is that you need.
• 37:30
  And, and you have to, and you have to be truthful because it
• 37:33
  looks to me like you have to be true to your nature.
• 37:39
  But taking on your responsibilities is, you know,
• 37:45
  if you look back at that time, it's such a short time, you'll,
• 37:50
  you'll definitely miss it if you don't put the time in.
• 37:56
  You know what I've seen now my my son and my daughter, they
• 37:59
  both have help in the house that I never had.
• 38:03
  And and so it just seems natural for them to employ someone to
• 38:09
  help them. I would have never even thought
• 38:13
  of it. But so it was a different time.
• 38:15
  It was a different time. And I think well before me then
• 38:20
  the family would have been larger and it would have been
• 38:23
  grandmothers and it would have been aunts and uncles before
• 38:25
  everybody's got so mobile doing that job.
• 38:28
  And now that everybody's moved and it's a nuclear family, it's
• 38:31
  going to be employed people. Hopefully what's best is that a
• 38:36
  small child has the same caregivers for a very long time.
• 38:40
  And so I think that is something that's under our control as
• 38:44
  mothers. We can find a relationship with
• 38:48
  another person who we can have in the home with us.
• 38:53
  But having that be constant, I think is really important for
• 38:56
  the attachment. I know you talked to Erica
• 38:59
  Komisar and I talked to her as well.
• 39:02
  And I, I do agree with her that the attachment is we, we with,
• 39:08
  The thing is, we do things, we change things in our
• 39:11
  arrangements, in our family arrangements like the birth
• 39:14
  control pill. Oh, we'll just take the birth
• 39:15
  control pill. What can that harm?
• 39:17
  You know, what kind of differences can that make?
• 39:20
  Oh, well, how about, you know, set up a whole cascade of
• 39:25
  differences in families and whether people are going to have
• 39:29
  children or not. And.
• 39:31
  Big difference, huge controversies.
• 39:33
  And as generational changes, yes, that decision I'm not going
• 39:36
  to have the child or I won't have any child has huge impacts.
• 39:40
  Yeah. And, and what's the difference?
• 39:42
  It's interesting. What's the difference between a
• 39:43
  woman who can make that choice? I'm going to have a child or I'm
• 39:46
  not going to have a child, child or a relationship that isn't
• 39:50
  heterosexual anymore, that's homosexual.
• 39:52
  It's practically it's the same thing in some ways.
• 39:56
  That's one of the things that made me so begin to fall in
• 39:59
  love, among the many reasons I fell in love with.
• 40:02
  The Catholic faith and becoming Catholic was the teaching on sex
• 40:06
  and this teaching of the the sexual act should be both
• 40:08
  procretive and unitive. So it should be open to life.
• 40:12
  So you don't use a barrier method, you don't use
• 40:14
  contraception and not every sexual act you can bring a baby
• 40:17
  into the world. A woman's fertility window is
• 40:19
  only so, so big. And you know, she's not always
• 40:22
  fertile her love her whole life anyways.
• 40:24
  But then in addition that that should always be unitive.
• 40:26
  So any sexual act that's provocative should also be
• 40:30
  bringing the spouses together in mutual love and respect and
• 40:33
  intimacy. And when you separate one from
• 40:36
  the other than it is against the design and it's not moral and
• 40:40
  and it's not mature and it's not mature.
• 40:42
  It's not mature, right? It's not it's immature.
• 40:44
  It's immature to not take on the responsibility of of having sex
• 40:52
  marriage. It's a responsibility to to get
• 40:54
  married and to have to have marital relations like within
• 41:03
  the marriage, not outside the marriage.
• 41:05
  And women sell themselves short if they don't do that, you know,
• 41:09
  I mean, historically women would have fathers and brothers to
• 41:15
  protect them so that they wouldn't get themselves in any
• 41:20
  kind of trouble, so their beauty wouldn't get them in in trouble.
• 41:23
  And now we don't have that so much.
• 41:27
  And so we have to be smarter. We have.
• 41:30
  Platforms to get women in trouble, so to speak.
• 41:32
  Yeah, right. Yeah, it's the opposite.
• 41:34
  It's the opposite. It's gone so far the other
• 41:37
  direction. But I saw a podcast you did with
• 41:40
  Isabella Brown and it's really encouraging to hear young women
• 41:46
  saying that things are changing. Things are changing that women
• 41:51
  and, and and young men, I hope, are looking towards more
• 41:58
  traditional values and setting up families again.
• 42:03
  I I hope that's. True.
• 42:04
  I think it is true. I see it.
• 42:06
  I see it anecdotally anyways, all the time that there's just
• 42:09
  this unhappiness with the current system of, you know, my
• 42:13
  rights, my body. I do what I want.
• 42:15
  There's no having sex anymore. 30 percentage of of Japanese men
• 42:20
  don't even have sex so. It's just a virtualized now,
• 42:24
  right? It's it's the, I mean, I think
• 42:26
  in Japanese, there's a Japan, there's a lot of anime porn,
• 42:29
  there's a lot of this, you know, different sorts of pornography.
• 42:32
  So there's still some the the sexual drive is being channeled
• 42:34
  to direction, but it's not even channeled to another person
• 42:36
  anymore in the flash. It's just the screen.
• 42:39
  And we've become, so we've become.
• 42:41
  It's separated from our bodies in our.
• 42:44
  Way from our bodies, yes. Disembodied experience, yeah,
• 42:48
  being on the screen and that's going to break down.
• 42:51
  Obviously there's problems with sex outside of marriage.
• 42:53
  It's not like we're saying sex outside of marriage is the is
• 42:55
  the answer or any sex is the answer, but it's this particular
• 42:59
  almost sex with oneself. Yeah, well, if you take it out
• 43:02
  of marriage, this is how it devolves.
• 43:04
  Now we see it. This is how it devolves.
• 43:07
  Is that better? No, it's not better.
• 43:09
  Yes, it's not better. And we know what's better.
• 43:12
  So go back. We go back to the to love and
• 43:17
  devotion and generosity. Yeah.
• 43:22
  Babies deserve the best and that's why I love everylife.com.
• 43:26
  everylife.com is a pro-life diaper company that is America's
• 43:29
  fastest growing diaper company. Why are they so fast growing?
• 43:32
  Because their product is amazing. everylife.com's diapers
• 43:35
  are breathable, they're leak proof, no toxic chemicals, and
• 43:39
  they're extra absorbent. These diapers are especially
• 43:41
  soft for your little one. I love everylife.com because
• 43:44
  they're not only an amazing product that create great
• 43:46
  products for your little one, but they're also supporting our
• 43:49
  values. They donate money directly back
• 43:51
  to the pro-life movement. So go to everylife.com today,
• 43:53
  become a subscriber, get a bundle of diapers and wipes for
• 43:57
  your little one or your loved ones little one and.
• 44:00
  Use the code LILAC Check out for 10% off your order.
• 44:02
  That's everylife.com Use the code LILAC Check out for 10% off
• 44:05
  your order. What was it that give me the
• 44:09
  moments that made you most aware of or interested in becoming
• 44:14
  Catholic? OK, what sparked that?
• 44:17
  Well. Because you were spiritual, it
• 44:19
  sounds like you had a spare time.
• 44:21
  Yeah, I did yoga. You did yoga.
• 44:24
  My aunt introduced me to yoga when I was when I left the
• 44:27
  church. And I think that was probably
• 44:29
  smart of her to do because I had left the church and so had all
• 44:33
  my friends and. I've heard some in the in the
• 44:39
  church say that yoga can be very dangerous.
• 44:41
  Yeah, I've heard. That it depends on the kind of
• 44:42
  yoga, too. Yeah, how it's done.
• 44:44
  Yeah, yeah. But I think that the meditation.
• 44:48
  Is opening up the portal to engaging spirits outside of
• 44:52
  God's Kingdom meaning it's not within God's order?
• 44:55
  Well, I think, you know, if you know, you have to be careful of
• 44:59
  your intention. That's, that's certain.
• 45:01
  That's for sure. But meditation was very good
• 45:04
  because I meditated every day when I came to starting to pray,
• 45:08
  when my friend brought me a rosary, when I was in the
• 45:11
  hospital. And this was when you were in
• 45:14
  the hospital for cancer. So when was this?
• 45:17
  This was in 2019 and I had had surgery.
• 45:21
  I'd had surgery and, and the cancer was gone, but then I had
• 45:27
  a a leak in my lymph system and they couldn't find it.
• 45:31
  And so my really, my life forces were draining into my legs and
• 45:37
  not nourishing my body. And so my electrolytes went out
• 45:42
  of balance. I was going to have a heart
• 45:43
  attack and I really, but I got to the hospital in time and they
• 45:47
  put me on a heart monitor, balanced my electrolytes by
• 45:50
  filling me up again and then started feeding me in my heart,
• 45:54
  straight to my heart. And I woke up, I thought, oh, I
• 45:58
  came to my senses and realized how I'll, I was and how things
• 46:02
  had gone drastically wrong. And then this friend of mine
• 46:05
  showed up with a rosary from me. And I had already had a
• 46:11
  religious experience by when I first was diagnosed with this
• 46:15
  terrible cancer that was supposed to kill me in 10
• 46:18
  months. You know, when I came home and
• 46:19
  told my son and looked at him and saw the grief in his eyes, I
• 46:24
  saw a boy losing his mother. And it hit me very deeply that I
• 46:33
  was able I, I could give my life up.
• 46:36
  I could die. I didn't need to fight for my
• 46:38
  life for me. I had to fight for my life for
• 46:42
  my son and my daughter. And at the time, I think I might
• 46:47
  have had one grandchild. Yes, I did.
• 46:49
  I had one grandchild at the time.
• 46:51
  And it reflected back on me that I was worthwhile saving.
• 46:59
  And I really did feel the Holy Spirit like, fill me up.
• 47:03
  And I just told my son, I said, you know, the doctors, they
• 47:06
  don't know for certain that I'm going to die.
• 47:09
  This is their opinion and it's a medical opinion.
• 47:13
  But God knows and only God knows.
• 47:16
  And I said, so we'll just go take every day with gratitude
• 47:19
  and carry on that way. And that's how I've carried on
• 47:24
  that way since. I'm sure that gave him strength
• 47:27
  in that moment. I hope so.
• 47:29
  I think so. Some consolation?
• 47:31
  Yeah, I think so. You know, my daughter says, and
• 47:34
  I don't remember her that much. She said she was around quite a
• 47:37
  bit, but I was pretty sick. So I was just there for a month
• 47:42
  with her and she was telling me how much time she spent with me
• 47:45
  and I don't remember it. So I was not very well.
• 47:49
  How did you beat a cancer diagnosis where they told you
• 47:52
  you were terminally ill and you're going to die in 10
• 47:54
  months? Yeah, that's a it's a mystery.
• 47:57
  It's a mystery. But I, the night, the night
• 48:01
  before my surgery, we were so nervous.
• 48:05
  I'd had surgery already because they misdiagnosed me and took
• 48:08
  out half my kidney and then realized actually, that's not
• 48:11
  what I had. And then it went into my lymph
• 48:13
  and they were like, oh, oh, we better put her back in the
• 48:15
  hospital. And so the night before we were
• 48:18
  sitting trying to watch something on the TV and I was
• 48:20
  like, wow, neither of us are even in this room.
• 48:22
  We're so scared that we're not even actually in the room.
• 48:25
  And I said, Detroit, I think we should go upstairs and I'm going
• 48:29
  to do a, I want to do a. What was it?
• 48:32
  It was a like a healing meditation.
• 48:35
  And you're saying you're so scared you both were sitting
• 48:37
  there watching TV but you just weren't paying?
• 48:39
  Attention. I could tell we were neither a.
• 48:41
  Distraction from the pain you were experiencing, yeah.
• 48:44
  The just the terror of going in again in the morning and what
• 48:48
  was going to happen? Was I going to be, were they
• 48:50
  going to be able to get all the cancer and, and what kind of
• 48:53
  state would I be left in after that?
• 48:55
  And I mean, all those things and I don't even think we thought
• 48:58
  them through. We were just scared and it came
• 49:01
  very fast too, right? Because they realized I had some
• 49:05
  pain in my back, which is the only indication you have this
• 49:08
  type of cancer. And and then they quickly got me
• 49:11
  into the hospital after that. And so we met it went upstairs
• 49:15
  and meditated and I brought, I'd had a number of prayers, sent my
• 49:19
  direction because we'd been on tour for a year.
• 49:21
  So people knew who Jordan was. And although I had been in the
• 49:26
  crowd and anonymous, they knew who I was to and so I had many
• 49:32
  prayers sent my way. So I laid down and I breathed in
• 49:35
  all the prayers that people had sent me and I breathed in white
• 49:38
  gold light because it was cancer.
• 49:40
  I would chose gold light and I took it down to my kidney and I
• 49:44
  took this gold light down there and I asked my body to.
• 49:48
  Physically gold light or. You're imagining gold light,
• 49:50
  imagining, OK, imagining gold light down into my body and
• 49:55
  asking my body to speak to me and not be afraid and to tell me
• 49:59
  what was going on. And I saw these cells in my body
• 50:04
  turned away from me, dark and turned away.
• 50:07
  And I thought, oh, cancer, there's no communication anymore
• 50:11
  with these live with this part of my body.
• 50:14
  It's it's turned away from me. This is much too much for me.
• 50:17
  I'll give this back to the universe.
• 50:19
  So I imagined, and it just came to me.
• 50:23
  I saw a vision of, of smoke leave me and go back and up into
• 50:28
  the universe. And then we were calm and we
• 50:29
  went to sleep. And in the morning when they did
• 50:32
  surgery, everything came out without any trouble.
• 50:36
  And the surgeons were quite surprised and relieved that
• 50:40
  everything just came out. But they had left a little hole
• 50:44
  and through that hole my life was draining.
• 50:49
  And so then they couldn't find it.
• 50:50
  And that was in May, and I wasn't well again until the end
• 50:55
  of August. So that was quite a long time of
• 51:00
  them not knowing what to do and just waiting.
• 51:04
  But this woman brought me a rosary when I was in the
• 51:06
  hospital. And so she came for five weeks
• 51:09
  every day and prayed the rosary with me.
• 51:12
  Yeah, for every week, every day. Every day.
• 51:15
  She came the first day to give me the rosary.
• 51:18
  Didn't know if I'd take her. Did you know her?
• 51:20
  She was a Catholic. OK, converted when she was 19.
• 51:24
  Asian woman. That's when I came into the
• 51:26
  church. Right.
• 51:26
  She'd gone to Rome with the university and had a conversion
• 51:32
  there and single woman who really lives as a as a mentor to
• 51:43
  young people. So her life is fully dedicated
• 51:46
  to the apostolate. That's her spiritual motherhood
• 51:49
  is her call. Yes, beautiful.
• 51:51
  Yeah, very beautiful. And she had come to our house
• 51:53
  once in 2017 when Jordan was first speaking up publicly.
• 51:59
  She was trying to normalize the the education system in Ontario,
• 52:04
  which is terribly woke. She was trying to, she was
• 52:08
  running, a friend of hers was running for office and she was.
• 52:11
  And so they came to our house and asked for Jordan's
• 52:14
  endorsement of what they were doing.
• 52:16
  And so then I met her there, but I didn't really know her.
• 52:19
  That was in 2017. She continued to, I guess,
• 52:24
  follow our story and then emailed me and asked me if she
• 52:28
  could come. And I remembered who she was.
• 52:31
  I think she might have left Maple syrup on her doorstep one
• 52:34
  day or something nice, you know? And she brought this rosary and
• 52:38
  a picture of Mother Mary with the infant Jesus.
• 52:42
  And she asked if I wanted to pray.
• 52:45
  And I said sure. And she was surprised that I
• 52:47
  want to, I said, I know, I said, I know that's a rosary, but I
• 52:50
  don't know how to pray it. So we went down to the, there's
• 52:55
  a place in the hospital that's about four stories high and it's
• 52:58
  trees and, and shrubs and benches.
• 53:01
  And if you're well enough, you can go within the hospital to
• 53:05
  that place. And it's kind of like being
• 53:07
  outside. The air must be pumped in from
• 53:09
  outside. It's, it's, it's nice place to
• 53:11
  be. And so we went there every
• 53:14
  morning at 10:00 and prayed. And she taught me the she came
• 53:19
  back the first day and, and she taught me all of that.
• 53:21
  And then she thought, well, I've taught her one mystery.
• 53:24
  I guess I should come back and teach her another mystery.
• 53:26
  So she came back the next day and by the time she'd come for
• 53:29
  four days and taught me all the mysteries, it started to be a
• 53:35
  thing. So it wasn't like she's planned
• 53:37
  this. And for those listening, the
• 53:39
  mysteries, which is so beautiful about the rosary because people
• 53:41
  say, well, the rosary is and idolize Mary, Isn't it idolizing
• 53:44
  Mary? And you put the gospel story,
• 53:46
  the gospel story, every mystery, every decade you're meditating
• 53:49
  on the life of Christ. Yeah, and it's, and I think it
• 53:52
  that that beginning and I I had been meditating every day.
• 53:56
  So to pray this every day came to me easily.
• 54:00
  And so that's, that's what all that study of yoga did, as well
• 54:03
  as making me very confident in my body, because it, there were
• 54:08
  asanas that you do, the physical exercises that you do in yoga
• 54:11
  were, were good because you have to do them on both sides.
• 54:14
  So you strengthen both sides of your body.
• 54:16
  So there there's goodness, but you have to have your intention
• 54:20
  for good when you do yoga. And, and thinking that you can
• 54:24
  just do whatever you want and be whoever you want, which is a
• 54:26
  sign of our society now will not lead you to the right place.
• 54:30
  You have to choose. You have to choose what you what
• 54:32
  you're going to devote yourself to.
• 54:34
  And I had devoted myself to, you know, goodness, I was telling
• 54:39
  the truth. My husband told me I had to tell
• 54:41
  the truth. So I was telling the truth.
• 54:43
  And so when I started to pray, doing, doing the prayer every
• 54:48
  morning just fit in. And I stopped doing yoga and
• 54:52
  began to pray. And I had done yoga a lot during
• 54:58
  my illness, but then prayer just took over.
• 55:02
  And so. You met the person because truth
• 55:05
  is truth is a person and all the spirituality, it's Jesus Christ
• 55:08
  and all the spirituality ultimately finds its fullness
• 55:11
  and God that he is the source and.
• 55:14
  So everything else fell away, and then prayer took over.
• 55:19
  And so then I was praying the rosary every morning and.
• 55:23
  Even after you left the hospital, after you were healed.
• 55:25
  And she said she was quite surprised because she came to
• 55:27
  see me weeks later and I was still praying the rosary.
• 55:30
  And she thought, Oh, well, that's interesting.
• 55:32
  Now, when you were praying the rosary and, and even when you
• 55:35
  were healed, did it connect in your mind at some point that
• 55:38
  there could be, you know, a significant movement in your
• 55:42
  faith where you could become Catholic?
• 55:43
  I think that I was, there was a point, there was a point when I
• 55:50
  was reading or praying the rosary, we were going to go back
• 55:54
  on tour. And when we had gone tour the
• 55:57
  first time, I always kept asking myself what I was doing there,
• 56:02
  that Jordan was speaking on stage.
• 56:04
  I was sitting in the audience. I was making sure he got to the
• 56:07
  talks and everything. But but what was I doing there?
• 56:09
  What was my purpose? There was I seemed to think I
• 56:13
  needed a purpose. You know, it just kept coming to
• 56:15
  me, this question, what am I doing here?
• 56:17
  And so then when we went to go back on tour again, I thought,
• 56:20
  OK, well, I'd asked myself, what am I doing here?
• 56:22
  I need to find a purpose in what I'm doing.
• 56:24
  And so I thought I'll start a podcast and I'll talk about,
• 56:28
  I'll find out more about the rosary and about the history of
• 56:31
  the rosary and about the Catholic faith.
• 56:34
  And so then, first of all, I asked Jonathan Pajo, who isn't
• 56:38
  even a Catholic. He's he's he's Orthodox.
• 56:41
  A close cousin, but. He was a good, he was a good
• 56:43
  friend of mine and I felt the dream.
• 56:45
  The dream, by the way, as we all come under one holy.
• 56:48
  Yeah, well, come under Rome. One day, of course, the author
• 56:51
  Orthodox would say, well, you come, come to us.
• 56:53
  But you know. Come together.
• 56:56
  Stranger things have happened. I mean, I think that the Lord's,
• 56:58
  I think the Lord's, the Holy Spirit would like to have us of
• 57:02
  course, under the, under the, the church and at home.
• 57:05
  There's so much more similarity than there is.
• 57:07
  There is different. So yes, there is a possibility
• 57:11
  of that, or I can see that as being a possibility, but I'm new
• 57:15
  to all of this so. You know, well, I think the
• 57:17
  prayer for Christian unity, like true Christian unity, not just,
• 57:21
  OK, you, you don't take Holy Eucharist and we do, but we're
• 57:24
  going to get along. But we are all together
• 57:27
  receiving the sacraments together in the church Jesus
• 57:30
  founded. I mean, that is, that is the
• 57:32
  dream for all Christians, for us all to be truly one.
• 57:35
  And that was the Lord he wanted. You know, I want you to be one.
• 57:38
  Yeah. And, and, and bringing also
• 57:41
  those that have fallen away back to the church as well, which I
• 57:45
  think is necessary for us to move in the right direction.
• 57:50
  And it looks like if we look at the younger people that this is
• 57:54
  starting to happen. And so that's good there's.
• 57:58
  A lot of conversions, yes. Yes, yes, I talked to, I talked
• 58:01
  to my friend Father Peter this morning and I think he said that
• 58:05
  he confirmed 38 people on 38 young adults, young people on
• 58:10
  Thursday. Beautiful.
• 58:11
  Yeah. Oh, Thursday, Yeah.
• 58:13
  Wow. Recently.
• 58:14
  Yes, this was not an Easter. No information.
• 58:17
  Wow. Well, I think one of my best
• 58:19
  friends growing up raised Protestant, and I remember when
• 58:22
  I became Catholic, she said I'm never becoming Catholic.
• 58:24
  You know, she thought it was crazy.
• 58:26
  And then a few years later. Oh, is that right?
• 58:28
  She's. Catholic now, Yeah, it's many
• 58:30
  people I know. So, you know, I was thinking
• 58:33
  Orthodox Catholic, Orthodox Catholic.
• 58:37
  It's going to be one of those, it's not going to be Protestant
• 58:40
  because the Protestant Church, especially in Canada, is, is
• 58:43
  very much not the same as it was when I grew up.
• 58:47
  And so I, so I was wondering what, what, what do I do?
• 58:51
  But I thought I'll just see what the signs are.
• 58:54
  And, and, and you know, I had been given a rosary.
• 58:58
  First of all, I was praying the rosary.
• 59:00
  That's Catholicism. And when did I eventually I
• 59:08
  found out that my grandmother was Catholic and that then I
• 59:13
  thought, well, my family's Catholic.
• 59:16
  My Polish grandmother, I got her a rosary from my cousin.
• 59:20
  Beautiful. Yeah.
• 59:21
  And she kept it with her always. So she was definitely very
• 59:25
  Catholic. He was devoted to the
• 59:28
  Catholicism. So it seemed right to me.
• 59:32
  And then I had Queenie. And Queenie you was my friend.
• 59:37
  And she is the one who sponsored me to go into the Catholic
• 59:41
  Church. And so that was available.
• 59:44
  It was just more available. And so that I went that
• 59:47
  direction, it was hard to decide.
• 59:50
  Have you? Have you wrestled with, I mean,
• 59:52
  I'm sure Jonathan would have the conversation with you to say,
• 59:54
  well, you should be Orthodox because you know, we have the
• 59:58
  the true authority that, you know, the Catholic Church
• 1:00:01
  doesn't have. When we separated, the
• 1:00:03
  authorities stayed with us. Of course, the Church and I, as
• 1:00:05
  a Roman Catholic would say, no, the authority is with Rome,
• 1:00:08
  although the sacraments are illicit, considered, you know,
• 1:00:11
  that these are actual, the same line of Apostolic succession.
• 1:00:14
  This is actually the Eucharist. They would say you're now you're
• 1:00:17
  out of the authority of the Orthodox Church.
• 1:00:20
  So there's these debates, you know, theological
• 1:00:23
  well-intentioned debates that happen.
• 1:00:25
  And then there's the debates between the Orthodox, the
• 1:00:27
  Catholic and the Protestants. And those get all over the
• 1:00:30
  place, right? You know, those that believe in,
• 1:00:32
  you know, Calvinism and the five points or they have their
• 1:00:35
  different variations of it. Do you find that interesting?
• 1:00:39
  I mean, is that something you've explored?
• 1:00:40
  OK. Yeah, I do.
• 1:00:42
  Because what persuaded me? I mean, many things persuaded
• 1:00:45
  me. We talked about the beauty of
• 1:00:46
  the church's teaching on sex, but it was just studying every
• 1:00:50
  time. I would have debates with my
• 1:00:51
  Calvinist friends and my Protestant friends.
• 1:00:53
  And I also went to an Orthodox Church before becoming Catholic
• 1:00:56
  for some time. And, you know, I thought it was
• 1:00:58
  so beautiful. There's so much closeness, of
• 1:01:00
  course, to our faith. And I, whenever I was hit with a
• 1:01:04
  real, you know, intellectual question about theology and the
• 1:01:08
  tradition and the history, I believed the best and most
• 1:01:11
  compelling argument came from the Catholic Church.
• 1:01:14
  And so every time I'd go up to the bat, you know, get up to the
• 1:01:18
  mat and you know, we'd be debating something, it would go
• 1:01:22
  for, I'd go to the side of this makes the most sense.
• 1:01:25
  And So what would you say was the argument that made you
• 1:01:28
  decide? Well, so many, I mean, it was so
• 1:01:31
  many different ones, but at the end it was, this is the
• 1:01:35
  Eucharist. This is Jesus's body, blood,
• 1:01:37
  soul and divinity, the line of Apostolic succession and the the
• 1:01:40
  papacy. There's this consistency from
• 1:01:43
  the time of Jesus Christ and the early church for 2000 years and
• 1:01:47
  the gates of hell have not prevailed against this Roman
• 1:01:50
  Catholic Church in its teachings on faith and morals.
• 1:01:53
  You look back and it has changed in terms of we now have the
• 1:01:56
  teaching about, you know, the assumption of the busted mother,
• 1:01:59
  right? But it doesn't ever deny or
• 1:02:01
  retract something in its past. It always taught the truth.
• 1:02:05
  So it always taught the truth. It's the oldest institution and
• 1:02:08
  it's teaching me. It's telling me this is Jesus's
• 1:02:10
  body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist.
• 1:02:13
  And I desired so much to be close to Jesus Christ, and I
• 1:02:15
  thought, I want to receive the Eucharist.
• 1:02:18
  OK. How do you receive the
• 1:02:19
  Eucharist? Will you come under his church?
• 1:02:21
  You have to become you. Could you get confirmed?
• 1:02:23
  You know, you become Catholic. Right, right, right.
• 1:02:25
  So that was in the the short of it for me in the end.
• 1:02:29
  I see. Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  So mine was more that it was, it was there was a history within
• 1:02:34
  my family and so it seemed like the right thing to do.
• 1:02:40
  And then of course, I talked to that young Mexican priest and he
• 1:02:43
  told me my grandmother's with me.
• 1:02:44
  So it seems like it was the right thing to do.
• 1:02:47
  I think so. Seems like it she's she's with
• 1:02:50
  you. I mean, Mother Mary it that's
• 1:02:52
  the beauty too, is that I've met so many different Catholics,
• 1:02:55
  different cultures, and the Mass is set in every language across
• 1:02:59
  the. Globe, Yeah.
• 1:03:00
  So you can go anywhere? Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 1:03:03
  And it's so many different people, different stories,
• 1:03:05
  different reasons for their faith and all, all are accepted.
• 1:03:10
  You know, the, the, our journeys can all look so, so different,
• 1:03:14
  but it's still one truth in the end.
• 1:03:18
  So do you feel now special closeness with your grandmother
• 1:03:21
  that even more than before? Yeah, yeah, I do.
• 1:03:25
  I definitely do. And I think it was my acceptance
• 1:03:31
  as Jesus, as my savior. That was a stepping stone.
• 1:03:36
  That was definitely a stepping stone.
• 1:03:37
  I didn't, I didn't have that. Even though I stayed in the
• 1:03:41
  church till I was 12. I never experienced that
• 1:03:44
  question. Not in the Protestant faith,
• 1:03:47
  They don't. I don't know if I wasn't old
• 1:03:50
  enough or if they don't lay it out for you because Catholicism
• 1:03:56
  just they laid that out for you. They say this is, this is your
• 1:04:00
  saviour. And you know, if you're going to
• 1:04:03
  be part of this church, then then this is then you accept
• 1:04:07
  Jesus Christ as your saviour. Oh, I thought, OK, well, and so
• 1:04:11
  it took me, well, it took me more.
• 1:04:13
  I think that the rosary helped to bring me closer to Jesus
• 1:04:18
  Christ. And I think just, you know,
• 1:04:28
  accepting that as a possibility also, you know, if you could
• 1:04:32
  accept something as a possibility, then you've opened
• 1:04:34
  the door. The possibility that Jesus is
• 1:04:37
  God and He's your Savior. Yeah, right.
• 1:04:40
  And so then that over time just became more of and more and more
• 1:04:43
  of a possibility. And now I can just pray to
• 1:04:48
  Jesus. So in a way, your faith story,
• 1:04:52
  which is I think unusual for many people I talked to today,
• 1:04:55
  it's that especially beautiful it was to Jesus through Mary.
• 1:05:00
  It's like Mary, it's like the mother, you know, the experience
• 1:05:05
  of a mother longing for a mother or seeking your grandmother,
• 1:05:08
  your own mother. But it was Mary that brought you
• 1:05:11
  to her son. Yeah, yeah, it seems that way.
• 1:05:13
  That's that's how it happened. And for whatever reason, like I
• 1:05:18
  said, I I prayed to my mother, but I prayed to what was best in
• 1:05:22
  my mother. That's Mother Mary.
• 1:05:26
  I don't think I was aware of that, but that's certainly what
• 1:05:29
  it was. Because I was raised Protestant,
• 1:05:31
  the whole Mary thing was sometimes confusing to me.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah, but I remember coming across so many of the Saints
• 1:05:38
  writings like Maximilian Colby, who had such profound devotion
• 1:05:42
  to the Blessed Mother. And they would often say in
• 1:05:45
  different ways, more profound than more elaborate than how I'm
• 1:05:48
  going to say it or eloquently than I'm going to say it, but
• 1:05:50
  that you can't love Mary too much because Mary, if it's
• 1:05:54
  really Mary, will only help you love Jesus more.
• 1:05:58
  And once I kind of connected those pieces and realized what
• 1:06:01
  Mary's role was to help me love God more and be who more the
• 1:06:05
  daughter I'm called to be then it.
• 1:06:08
  Clicked Yeah, yeah, I I agree. Mother Mary, she's a, a symbol,
• 1:06:14
  a symbol of what's best in what's what's best in in women
• 1:06:20
  really. And women as a traditional, a
• 1:06:25
  traditional combination of woman and child.
• 1:06:29
  That's Mother Mary. So it's not, it's not Mother
• 1:06:33
  Mary, it's Mother Mary and baby Jesus.
• 1:06:35
  Yes. Yeah.
• 1:06:37
  Right. Because there is no mother
• 1:06:39
  without a baby, then you can't be called mother.
• 1:06:42
  So she's it's Mother Mary and Jesus, like it has to be, can't
• 1:06:47
  separate those things at all. How has it been with your
• 1:06:51
  family? Because your immediate family,
• 1:06:52
  you're the only Catholic one, right?
• 1:06:54
  Yeah, yeah. How has that been?
• 1:06:57
  Well, my daughter, my daughter, I would, I would experience
• 1:07:02
  miracles and I'd phone Michaela. Oh, you know, I mean, and I
• 1:07:08
  everyone sins. Everyone sins and then you pay
• 1:07:11
  attention to what is good and you pray to God and things start
• 1:07:18
  to work out better. I find those kind of miracles,
• 1:07:21
  you know, and so I call my daughter and say, guess what
• 1:07:23
  happened? This happened.
• 1:07:25
  And she'd say I'm not there yet, mom, And I'd say that's OK,
• 1:07:29
  that's OK. I just want to share what I'm
• 1:07:31
  experiencing with you. But but silently, she she wanted
• 1:07:36
  that and she wanted that. She desired that relationship.
• 1:07:40
  And a couple of months ago, she got baptized.
• 1:07:43
  Wow, so beautiful. Yeah, that's for sure.
• 1:07:47
  Your. Prayers for her.
• 1:07:48
  Yeah. And so there's nothing better
• 1:07:51
  than that. There's nothing better than
• 1:07:53
  that. So will you be baptizing her
• 1:07:55
  baby in the tradition of the grandmother?
• 1:07:57
  No, I'm joking. I'm joking.
• 1:07:59
  Not those ones. That's beautiful.
• 1:08:03
  It is, it is. It's really beautiful and she's
• 1:08:06
  so much more joyful. It's really lovely.
• 1:08:10
  And it sounds like Jordan is very welcoming of your faith.
• 1:08:14
  He is. He's very supportive.
• 1:08:16
  He's very supportive. He's very interesting to
• 1:08:19
  interested to see what I take on as challenges.
• 1:08:24
  And, and because of this and you know, Jordan, I love to listen
• 1:08:34
  to what he has to say. He can really explain the
• 1:08:37
  meaning behind the stories, the gospels, the Old Testament.
• 1:08:43
  And that's what his new book is about, which he just finished
• 1:08:45
  yesterday. Wonderful.
• 1:08:47
  And so it's going to be published, I think, the 19th of
• 1:08:51
  November. And so then we'll tour again at
• 1:08:55
  that time for a month or so. And well, we'll see.
• 1:09:00
  But what he does next, I think his next book will be on the
• 1:09:03
  Gospels. Well, all the Catholics are
• 1:09:06
  waiting for the book Why I Became Catholic from Jordan
• 1:09:09
  Peterson. That's right, Right, right.
• 1:09:11
  Me too. Now that now that you're you're
• 1:09:13
  where you're at, Who knows? Well, I think, I think what'll
• 1:09:16
  happen is he'll become orthodox. Oh, interesting.
• 1:09:20
  And then we'll see what happens. Interesting.
• 1:09:23
  One step closer, right? What does the future hold for
• 1:09:27
  you? What is what does the next five
• 1:09:28
  years look like, would you say? The next five years, well, we're
• 1:09:31
  going to be spending more time in the States.
• 1:09:35
  My daughter lives in the States, so we'll spend more time in the
• 1:09:38
  States. We always like to go up to
• 1:09:40
  Canada for the summer because we have a lake house up there and
• 1:09:43
  then my son is there and my grandchildren are there.
• 1:09:47
  And so we'll split our time between those two places.
• 1:09:52
  Jordan will write another book. We'll probably have conferences,
• 1:09:55
  I imagine, and some talks again in the States, but larger
• 1:10:02
  venues, probably less moving around so much because both of
• 1:10:09
  us are getting older. And now I realize that all these
• 1:10:13
  plain rides are hard on my back. So I don't know how much more of
• 1:10:17
  that I can do. I, you know, I'll, I'll
• 1:10:21
  rehabilitate myself as much as I can, but I have to be careful
• 1:10:24
  and make sure that I'm taking care of myself and that he's
• 1:10:27
  being taken care of. And so I, I see us continuing
• 1:10:31
  this as long as it's necessary and good.
• 1:10:37
  I'm, I'm starting a new project. I'm recording the proverbs.
• 1:10:46
  I'm going to be recording the proverbs over this next year and
• 1:10:51
  I'll update you on that as it sounds lovely reading the
• 1:10:55
  proverbs. I'll be reading like an audio
• 1:10:57
  recording, an audio recording, and maybe a discussion with a
• 1:11:01
  nun. Oh.
• 1:11:02
  I love that, so I'll TuneIn. OK, yeah, I'm looking forward to
• 1:11:07
  that. And I'm also reading books on
• 1:11:10
  all the women in the Bible, and I think that would be the next
• 1:11:13
  thing to talk about as all the women in the Bible.
• 1:11:16
  There's a lovely one that just I just thought of Colleen, Colleen
• 1:11:19
  Campbell, I think her name is, but she wrote my sisters the
• 1:11:22
  Saints, beautiful reflections. She's a very gifted writer.
• 1:11:25
  Beautiful reflections on the Saints and how she came, became
• 1:11:28
  Catholic through the sisters Saints.
• 1:11:31
  I'll, I'll send it to you. OK, I'll track it down and send
• 1:11:34
  it. Tammy.
• 1:11:35
  It's been so lovely talking with you.
• 1:11:37
  Thank you and welcome to the church.
• 1:11:39
  Thank you very much, my sister. Happy to be here.
• 1:11:42
  I'm so happy you're here and so excited to see all the beautiful
• 1:11:45
  things God continues to do through you.
• 1:11:49
  God bless. Thank you.
• 1:11:52
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
• 1:11:54
  Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it.
• 1:11:55
  As always, don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to
• 1:11:59
  your podcast. Or if you're on YouTube, don't
• 1:12:00
  forget to subscribe to the YouTube channel.
• 1:12:02
  And check out our locals page. This is where we are building a
• 1:12:05
  community and you can get special behind the scenes sneak
• 1:12:07
  peeks of what we're doing at the podcast.
• 1:12:10
  Thanks so much and we'll see you next time.
• 1:12:12
  A huge thank you to our partner. EWTNEWTN is the largest Catholic
• 1:12:17
  network in the world, spreading the faith across the globe.
• 1:12:21
  Discover news, entertainment and deepen your faith@ewtn.com.