Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / Cruz vs Tucker Debate: On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong

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Cruz vs Tucker Debate: On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome. It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson
0:04
Speaker 1: with you. It's so nice to have you with us.
0:06
Speaker 1: Many of you listening to this on radio around the country,
0:08
Speaker 1: and we are thrilled to have you with us as well.
0:11
Speaker 1: Don't forget we do this show as a podcast, so
0:13
Speaker 1: make sure you hit that subscriber auto download button if
0:17
Speaker 1: you download Vertic with Tech Cruse. We do it three
0:19
Speaker 1: days a week, and obviously this radio show as well. Senator,
0:23
Speaker 1: We've got a lot to talk about in the show,
0:26
Speaker 1: but let's just start with the big thing everybody's wanting
0:28
Speaker 1: to hear about, and that is your sit down interview
0:31
Speaker 1: in your office with Tucker Carlson.
0:34
Speaker 2: Well, this week I sat down with Tucker Carlson. We
0:36
Speaker 2: did a two hour interview in my office and I
0:40
Speaker 2: got to tell you it was a bloodbath. The two
0:42
Speaker 2: of us frankly beat the living daylights out of each
0:46
Speaker 2: other for two hours straight. It was there were fireworks,
0:50
Speaker 2: I'll tell you online there have been over one hundred
0:52
Speaker 2: million views on clips from this show. It was vigorous,
0:58
Speaker 2: it was contested, it was look. It laid out two
1:03
Speaker 2: very different views on foreign policy, and it's what we're
1:06
Speaker 2: going to talk about today.
1:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is an incredible on the foreign policy front.
1:11
Speaker 1: So let's just start with the basic question that I
1:13
Speaker 1: think so many people have been asking me when they
1:15
Speaker 1: saw the sibbits of this interview, and I would actually
1:18
Speaker 1: encourage people to watch the entire interview, not just the
1:21
Speaker 1: little things that popped on social media, but number one
1:25
Speaker 1: like why did you decide to do this interview with him?
1:29
Speaker 1: And did do you think it was going to be
1:31
Speaker 1: like this?
1:32
Speaker 2: Well, let me start with the second part first. Yes,
1:35
Speaker 2: I knew exactly what it was going to be. I
1:37
Speaker 2: knew that Tucker when he asked for the interview, I
1:39
Speaker 2: knew that he was doing it to come after me.
1:42
Speaker 2: I knew he was going to come in and just
1:44
Speaker 2: be swinging as hard as he could. And I went in.
1:47
Speaker 2: I wasn't looking to pick a fight, and in fact,
1:50
Speaker 2: we started the interview with my pointing out. I said, Tucker, listen,
1:54
Speaker 2: you and I we agree on about eighty percent of issues.
1:57
Speaker 2: We agree across the board. And I said, Tucker, you
2:01
Speaker 2: have been fantastic on a ton of issues. You've been
2:04
Speaker 2: fantastic on securing the border. That is a deep passion
2:06
Speaker 2: of mine. We have got to secure the border. And
2:09
Speaker 2: when Joe Biden the Democrats had opened borders, you were
2:12
Speaker 2: ferocious in fighting for that which I have been fighting
2:15
Speaker 2: alongside that with all my might. I will say during COVID,
2:20
Speaker 2: during the COVID lockdowns, Tucker was phenomenal. In fact, to
2:24
Speaker 2: the middle of the COVID lockdowns. I called Tucker back
2:27
Speaker 2: when he had a show on Fox, and I told him,
2:29
Speaker 2: I said, Tucker, your evening monologues are the single best
2:33
Speaker 2: thing on television. I listened to them. I consume them
2:36
Speaker 2: like crack every night because they are so good. Because
2:39
Speaker 2: he was speaking out, he was speaking out powerfully against
2:41
Speaker 2: the insanity of shutting down our country, against the insanity
2:45
Speaker 2: of shutting down small businesses, against the insanity of shutting
2:48
Speaker 2: down churches, against the insanity of shutting down schools. And
2:51
Speaker 2: over ten million kids did not go to in person
2:54
Speaker 2: school for over a year. And by the way, the
2:58
Speaker 2: data all show the learning loss to kids from that
3:00
Speaker 2: idiotic social experiment is going to be with them their
3:04
Speaker 2: entire life. I think ten, twenty, thirty, forty years from now,
3:07
Speaker 2: we're going to look back and say, what idiocy prompted
3:11
Speaker 2: this country to shut down schools and hurt so many kids.
3:14
Speaker 2: So on all of those issues, on free speech, on
3:17
Speaker 2: the Second Amendment, Tucker's been fantastic, and we aren't exactly
3:20
Speaker 2: the same page on all of those issues. Now, I
3:23
Speaker 2: did acknowledge there are issues on which we disagree. I
3:27
Speaker 2: knew that Tucker wanted the interview because he wanted to
3:30
Speaker 2: come after me, and I knew that it was going
3:33
Speaker 2: to be particularly spicy, a lot of fireworks, because Tucker
3:38
Speaker 2: in the last week has gotten really crosswise with President Trump.
3:42
Speaker 2: Tucker has blasted the President and said that the President
3:45
Speaker 2: was complicit in Israel's war. He said that the President's
3:49
Speaker 2: actions were not consistent with America first. And so I
3:54
Speaker 2: knew that Tucker was going to be hot and that
3:56
Speaker 2: I was going to be the target to take his
3:58
Speaker 2: ir out. I did the interview because listen, although Tucker
4:03
Speaker 2: is right on a whole lot of issues on foreign policy,
4:06
Speaker 2: I think he's gone really off the rails. He has
4:09
Speaker 2: gotten to a place of hardcore isolationism that I think
4:14
Speaker 2: is really dangerous. It's not good for America. I disagree
4:17
Speaker 2: with it. He does not want America to support Israel.
4:21
Speaker 2: He does not want America to do anything to stop
4:23
Speaker 2: Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and he is vocally
4:27
Speaker 2: and vigorously disagreeing with President Trump. And I thought it
4:30
Speaker 2: was important for me to do this interview to explain
4:34
Speaker 2: what President Trump is doing and to defend the president,
4:36
Speaker 2: to stand with President Trump. And I got to tell you,
4:39
Speaker 2: the entire theme of my interview was very simple. Donald
4:44
Speaker 2: Trump is right, and Tucker on Iran and Israel, you're wrong.
4:49
Speaker 2: And that was the whole point of the interview that
4:51
Speaker 2: came across at great length. Now, we did the interview
4:56
Speaker 2: and on Tuesday, and then Tucker released it on Wednesday.
5:00
Speaker 2: But before Wednesday, he released a little stippet and in
5:03
Speaker 2: two hours. Look, I'm gonna give Tucker some credit, he
5:05
Speaker 2: had a little gotcha moment. So two hours of back
5:07
Speaker 2: and forth and back and forth and back and forth,
5:09
Speaker 2: and he decided to play a little gotcha moment. So
5:12
Speaker 2: so in the course of talking about Iran, he asks me,
5:15
Speaker 2: he says, well, what's the population of Iran? And I
5:19
Speaker 2: thought about it for a second and realized I didn't
5:22
Speaker 2: actually know the exact population of Iran, and so I
5:25
Speaker 2: just said I don't know, and he did the sort
5:27
Speaker 2: of classic Tucker, what how can you not know that,
5:31
Speaker 2: And I mean, he was, you know, vibrating and looking
5:35
Speaker 2: as if I had, you know, admitted to I don't know,
5:39
Speaker 2: committing treason or something. And I just said, look, I
5:42
Speaker 2: don't memorize population tables. And he comes in with with great,
5:48
Speaker 2: great joy and says and I asked him, I said,
5:51
Speaker 2: what's the population of Iran? He says ninety two million. Actually,
5:55
Speaker 2: according to the Google searches afterwards, it's eighty nine million,
5:57
Speaker 2: so he was off three million, which I think is
5:59
Speaker 2: funny because I assume he Google searched it right before
6:01
Speaker 2: the interview so he could do his little gotcha. And
6:04
Speaker 2: I'll confess this may not be terribly credible, but the
6:07
Speaker 2: truth of the matter is in my head what I
6:11
Speaker 2: was going to say, if I was guessing, was ninety million.
6:13
Speaker 2: So I was actually felt pretty good. I'm like, huh,
6:15
Speaker 2: all right, pretty damn close. But I said, look, what
6:18
Speaker 2: difference does it make if it's ninety million or eighty
6:20
Speaker 2: million or a hundred million. And the reason I didn't
6:22
Speaker 2: want to positive guess is because stupid and unfair interviews.
6:28
Speaker 2: You play gotcha's on this and I'll say things like
6:31
Speaker 2: population numbers. There are all sorts of countries across the
6:33
Speaker 2: globe that have sort of really surprising populations that they
6:37
Speaker 2: can have populations that are either significantly bigger than you
6:40
Speaker 2: would think, are significantly smaller than you would think. And
6:43
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, what I was talking about,
6:45
Speaker 2: which is the Iatola, theocratic radical lunatic who chance death
6:50
Speaker 2: to American is trying to develop a nuclear weapon. The
6:53
Speaker 2: thread of that is not remotely different whether Iran has
6:58
Speaker 2: a population of eighty million, ninety million, hundred million. So
7:01
Speaker 2: it was an irrelevant gotcha. But that little clip, what
7:05
Speaker 2: Tucker did is he released it a day before the
7:07
Speaker 2: whole interview, so he picked out of two hours. He
7:09
Speaker 2: thought that was the best sixty seconds because he did
7:11
Speaker 2: get me to say the words I don't know, and
7:14
Speaker 2: he felt very gleeful on that I got to say.
7:17
Speaker 2: The rest of the interview as it played out, there's
7:19
Speaker 2: a reason he wanted to start with that clip. And
7:21
Speaker 2: that clip went viral, and that's fine, but there's a
7:25
Speaker 2: reason he wanted to start with that clip because the
7:27
Speaker 2: rest of the interview. Tucker's positions on Israel were very clear.
7:31
Speaker 2: He didn't want to stand with Israel. He was and
7:35
Speaker 2: we're going to lay this out in the course of
7:36
Speaker 2: the show. Deeply opposed to Israel, and he was deeply
7:40
Speaker 2: opposed to President Trump's policy, and in fact, he had
7:43
Speaker 2: been in writing and vocally attacking President Trump. And he
7:47
Speaker 2: didn't want to talk about that in terms of putting
7:49
Speaker 2: it out the results of the interview. But that's why
7:51
Speaker 2: I did the interview.
7:52
Speaker 1: So I've done interviews that have been pretty snarky. I
7:56
Speaker 1: worked seen in for a long time as a conservative commentator.
7:59
Speaker 1: Are you glad you did the interview? Because I always
8:01
Speaker 1: got that question and it's the same one. I know
8:03
Speaker 1: a lot of people want to ask you.
8:05
Speaker 2: Absolutely one thousand percent.
8:07
Speaker 3: Yes.
8:08
Speaker 2: Look, could the interview have been much better? If Tucker
8:12
Speaker 2: had wanted to sit down and have a reasonable, thoughtful conversation,
8:16
Speaker 2: let me speak, let him speak, us go back and
8:19
Speaker 2: forth and lay out different visions of foreign policy, that
8:23
Speaker 2: would have been a much much better interview. But Tucker
8:25
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. When he didn't like what
8:27
Speaker 2: you're saying, he interrupts, he gets snarky, he insults you,
8:30
Speaker 2: and you're gonna hear all that because that's what he did.
8:32
Speaker 2: But that's fine, I mean it. He decided he wanted
8:37
Speaker 2: this interview to be the two of us scream at
8:38
Speaker 2: each other. So that's what it ended up being. But
8:40
Speaker 2: I'm very glad because it was important to lay out
8:43
Speaker 2: the contrast. Donald Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is
8:48
Speaker 2: wrong on Israel and Iran, and I wanted to make
8:51
Speaker 2: that absolutely clear.
8:52
Speaker 1: One of the big differences between the two of you
8:56
Speaker 1: was on what success looks like, especially when it comes
8:59
Speaker 1: to Israel taking out top Iranian military leadership.
9:03
Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. Israel right now is taking out
9:06
Speaker 2: the senior Iranian military leadership. And this is a regime.
9:10
Speaker 2: When the Iotola chants death to America, I believe him.
9:14
Speaker 2: When he chants death to Israel, I believe him. When
9:17
Speaker 2: he calls Israel the little Satan in America the great Satan,
9:21
Speaker 2: I believe that he believes that. And so the Iatola's
9:24
Speaker 2: efforts to develop nuclear weapons they are designed for one
9:27
Speaker 2: very specific purpose, which is to be able to attack
9:31
Speaker 2: Israel and America. And let me point out, by the way,
9:35
Speaker 2: there is a reason the Iatola has an ICBM program.
9:38
Speaker 2: ICBM stands for intercontinental ballistic missile. You do not need
9:42
Speaker 2: an ICBM to attack Israel. Right now, Iran is pounding
9:48
Speaker 2: Israel with ballistic missiles, but Israel is relatively close to Iran.
9:53
Speaker 2: Iran wants an ICBM for one purpose and one purpose only,
9:57
Speaker 2: to be able to carry a nuclear warhead to the
9:59
Speaker 2: unit the States of America. And so that is the
10:02
Speaker 2: threat we are facing. And Israel is doing an enormous
10:05
Speaker 2: favor to America by taking out Iran's nuclear capability. Here,
10:11
Speaker 2: give a listen to Tucker and me discussing exactly this point.
10:14
Speaker 2: Do you want to ask how to supporting Israel benefit us?
10:17
Speaker 2: Right now? This tiny little country the size of the
10:20
Speaker 2: state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for US
10:23
Speaker 2: and taking out their top military leadership and trying to
10:27
Speaker 2: take out their nuclear capacity. That makes America much safer.
10:30
Speaker 1: Right, by the way, You're absolutely right. I mean Israel
10:32
Speaker 1: is taking out top Perhanian military leadership. And yes, Israel
10:37
Speaker 1: is fighting our enemies right now for US and not
10:39
Speaker 1: just America, but many other countries around the world.
10:42
Speaker 2: Well, and it benefits America. Understand, these nuclear weapons are
10:47
Speaker 2: being developed so they can attack America. And it's not
10:51
Speaker 2: American soldiers who are taking out these nuclear facilities. It
10:55
Speaker 2: is Israeli commandos who are doing so that's something we
10:58
Speaker 2: should be grateful for. But but Tucker Carlson has been
11:02
Speaker 2: vigorously criticizing President Trump for standing with Israel on this
11:06
Speaker 2: and and here's another segment with with with Tucker and
11:09
Speaker 2: me discussing this point that I.
11:12
Speaker 4: Willing to spend money opposed to that it's awful. I
11:17
Speaker 4: am against killing anybody, actually, and especially foreign government. I'm
11:21
Speaker 4: asking about your allegation in the Prime Minister of Israel's
11:24
Speaker 4: allegation that.
11:26
Speaker 2: Is killing Terris is a good thing. Killing people are
11:31
Speaker 2: trying to murder Americans is a good thing because if
11:34
Speaker 2: you're America first, you want to protect American So taking
11:38
Speaker 2: out killing O'samovan Laden was a fantastic But you don't
11:42
Speaker 2: believe that they're trying to murder Trump or you ain't it? Yes,
11:44
Speaker 2: but why are you, senator?
11:46
Speaker 1: You said earlier in the interview with him at the
11:48
Speaker 1: beginning and on this show that you and Tucker agree
11:52
Speaker 1: on about eighty percent of the issues, like hardcore lockstep.
11:56
Speaker 1: But this one here is maybe the most insane point
11:59
Speaker 1: where Pucker's like, Hey, I don't want to kill anybody
12:01
Speaker 1: around the world, no matter what I'm like, hold on,
12:03
Speaker 1: if you had a chance to take out Hitler, you
12:04
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it. Are you kidding me?
12:06
Speaker 2: Well, this is unfortunately a point that frankly, you see
12:10
Speaker 2: from a lot of people on the far left. You
12:12
Speaker 2: see from the sort of Jimmy Carter's of the world,
12:15
Speaker 2: and even Barack Obama's, the kind of piece nicks that say, man,
12:19
Speaker 2: all war is bad. Just just you know, killing is bad.
12:22
Speaker 2: I'm just opposed to killing. And I get that that
12:26
Speaker 2: sounds good in a college faculty lounge. But as I
12:30
Speaker 2: asked him in the course of it, I'm like, did
12:33
Speaker 2: you think it's bad that we killed Osama bin Laden?
12:36
Speaker 2: Do you think it's bad that that that Hitler's dead?
12:40
Speaker 2: Do you think it's bad that we killed General Solomony?
12:42
Speaker 2: Do you think it's bad that And let's be clear
12:44
Speaker 2: that President Trump killed General Solomony. I asked him that
12:47
Speaker 2: he wouldn't answer, that, he wouldn't ask answer if it
12:50
Speaker 2: was if it was good or bad that we killed
12:51
Speaker 2: Osama bin Laden. That the idea that we should never
12:54
Speaker 2: kill anybody is an incredibly naive and unrealistic position. Look,
12:59
Speaker 2: I think we should avoid unnecessary wars. I think we
13:02
Speaker 2: should be very reluctant to put American servicemen and women
13:05
Speaker 2: in harm's way. But when you have terrorists, killing Osama
13:09
Speaker 2: bin Laden was a great day for America and a
13:12
Speaker 2: great day for the world because Osama bin Laden murdered
13:15
Speaker 2: thousands of Americans and waged war against America. And anyone
13:19
Speaker 2: who is actually focused on America first and defending this
13:22
Speaker 2: nation understands that there are dangerous people that are trying
13:27
Speaker 2: to kill Americans and it's the job of the commander
13:30
Speaker 2: in chief to keep them safe. Now, I will say,
13:34
Speaker 2: in a two hour interview, one of the things that
13:37
Speaker 2: was striking is thirty six minutes of the interview was
13:43
Speaker 2: Tucker attacking me for supporting Israel, and in particular, he
13:49
Speaker 2: was obsessed with APAC. APAC is the America Israel Political
13:55
Speaker 2: Action Committee, and he was going on and on and
13:58
Speaker 2: on about how APAC should have to register under Farah,
14:02
Speaker 2: the law that requires that that organizations that are lobbying
14:06
Speaker 2: on behalf of foreign governments have to register. Now, APAK
14:09
Speaker 2: is not lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. APAC
14:12
Speaker 2: consists of Americans. It is Americans who are standing up.
14:16
Speaker 5: Now.
14:16
Speaker 2: There are Americans who want a strong US Israel relationship,
14:19
Speaker 2: but they are not a lobbyist for the nation of Israel.
14:22
Speaker 2: And all told, he asked twenty eight questions on APAC,
14:28
Speaker 2: twenty eight questions. He asked thirty five questions on why
14:32
Speaker 2: I was supporting Israel, and finally it led to this moment,
14:35
Speaker 2: which was quite a bit of fireworks. Here. Give a listen.
14:39
Speaker 2: By the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing, the
14:44
Speaker 2: obsession with Israel, and we're talking about foreign count You're
14:47
Speaker 2: not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanesi, not
14:50
Speaker 2: talking about the Brits, you're not talking about the French.
14:51
Speaker 2: The question what about the Jews? What about the Jews?
14:54
Speaker 5: Tey semi?
14:55
Speaker 2: Now, Senator, you're just in the question, Tucker, you're asking
14:59
Speaker 2: why are the Jews who controlling our foreign policy?
15:01
Speaker 4: That's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I
15:03
Speaker 4: have that's exactly what you just said.
15:06
Speaker 1: It is, by the way, exactly he was saying over
15:08
Speaker 1: and over again, as you mentioned for so long and again,
15:11
Speaker 1: the demonization of Americans, and many of them they're Jewish
15:15
Speaker 1: that advocate for Israel in America and say they should
15:18
Speaker 1: be foreign lobbyist organization. Look, I've spoken at one of
15:22
Speaker 1: their events before. I'm sure you've spoken it countless events
15:25
Speaker 1: for them before. The idea that there's some foreign agency
15:28
Speaker 1: is absurd yea.
15:29
Speaker 2: And he also had a whole line of inquiry, isn't
15:32
Speaker 2: it horrible that Israel spies on America? My response was,
15:37
Speaker 2: every one of our allies spies on America. We spy
15:40
Speaker 2: on every one of our allies. That's real politique, that's
15:43
Speaker 2: the world we live in. And he could not acknowledge
15:46
Speaker 2: that point. He said, no, no, but Israel does it.
15:47
Speaker 2: It's terrible that Israel does it. And it was bizarrely focused. Okay, look,
15:52
Speaker 2: the Brits spy on us, the Canadian spy on us,
15:54
Speaker 2: the French spy on us. Everybody spies on us, and
15:57
Speaker 2: we spy on everybody. Welcome to reality, because conservatives are
16:01
Speaker 2: not simple and naive. And yet the criticism that is
16:04
Speaker 2: directed at Israel sadly is unique and I think really unfortunate.
16:11
Speaker 1: I want to get back into the Tucker Carlson interview
16:13
Speaker 1: that you did and center there was some interesting themes
16:17
Speaker 1: that came out of this interview. He was obviously attacking you,
16:21
Speaker 1: he was attacking Israel, he was attacking groups that support Israel.
16:25
Speaker 1: But then there was an even weirder point where I
16:28
Speaker 1: think Tucker probably is hoping that we don't play this,
16:31
Speaker 1: or that people didn't watch the whole interview and hear
16:34
Speaker 1: this part. It was about the Iranian regime. They've been
16:37
Speaker 1: trying to murder Donald Trump. They've hired hitman, They've been
16:40
Speaker 1: trying to hire hitman. They've come after former cabinet members
16:43
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. And when you brought it up, he
16:46
Speaker 1: acted like he'd never heard of this before and that
16:48
Speaker 1: you were either lying or this is shocking news to him.
16:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was utterly bizarre, and I got to say,
16:53
Speaker 2: in the whole course of the two hour interview, this
16:55
Speaker 2: was the strangest portion. For the last two years, Iran
16:59
Speaker 2: has been active trying to murder President Donald Trump. Iran
17:03
Speaker 2: has hired hitman to murder President Trump, and Ran also
17:06
Speaker 2: has been trying to murder Mike Pompeo, President Trump's former
17:10
Speaker 2: secretary of State, John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor,
17:15
Speaker 2: and Brian Hook, President Trump's former assistant secretary of state.
17:18
Speaker 2: All of them, Iran has hired hitman and has been
17:21
Speaker 2: targeting them bizarrely, and this has been widely reported. These
17:25
Speaker 2: are objective facts, but bizarrely, Tucker Carlson assisted insisted this
17:30
Speaker 2: has never happened. Here, give a listen.
17:33
Speaker 4: I just want to pull that thread because it's so important.
17:35
Speaker 4: I voted for Donald Trump. I can't paign for Donald Trump.
17:37
Speaker 4: He's our president and won in the cusp of a war.
17:40
Speaker 4: So if Iran, if there's evidence that Iran paid hitman
17:43
Speaker 4: to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that, where's that?
17:46
Speaker 4: What are you even talking? I've never heard that before. Okay,
17:49
Speaker 4: where's the evidence? Who are these people? Why haven't they
17:51
Speaker 4: been arrested? Why are we not at war with Iran?
17:53
Speaker 4: That's a great question to ask. How do you know
17:55
Speaker 4: that that's true.
17:57
Speaker 2: We know that it's true because we have been told
18:00
Speaker 2: that by the military and our intelligence community for the
18:03
Speaker 2: last two years. We meaning who Congress has in the public.
18:07
Speaker 2: I mean it had multiple testimonies. I can send you
18:10
Speaker 2: test We know the.
18:11
Speaker 4: Names of the people are where this happened, or what
18:13
Speaker 4: they tried to do to kill Trump.
18:15
Speaker 2: We do not. We have not apprehended an Iranian hit
18:18
Speaker 2: man trying to kill him. We know that Iran is
18:21
Speaker 2: trying to do so in the United States. Yes, and
18:24
Speaker 2: by the way, like Iran, this just seems like a
18:27
Speaker 2: huge headline and you're acting like everyone knows this. I
18:29
Speaker 2: didn't know that Iran put out a whole video about
18:32
Speaker 2: murdering Trump, right, but I've never heard evidence that there
18:37
Speaker 2: are hitmen in the United States, I mean, trying to
18:39
Speaker 2: kill Trump right now, we should like have a nationwide
18:42
Speaker 2: dragged down on this and we should attack Iran immediately
18:45
Speaker 2: if that's true. Don't you think no, but they're trying
18:49
Speaker 2: to assassinate our president. They have been for two years.
18:51
Speaker 2: They are more with them. Well we are trying.
18:55
Speaker 4: To Why don't we just knwke teard if they're trying
18:57
Speaker 4: to murder our president. There's nothing that you could do
18:59
Speaker 4: that would be worse for the United States than murdering Trump.
19:02
Speaker 4: And I just don't understand why you're not calling for
19:04
Speaker 4: the use of nuclear weapons against the ee tootal right now,
19:06
Speaker 4: I'm serious, if you really believe there's a use of
19:08
Speaker 4: nuclear weapons, whatever the problem of so mean, you don't
19:12
Speaker 4: seem to take the allegation seriously.
19:14
Speaker 5: I do.
19:14
Speaker 4: If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need
19:16
Speaker 4: to stop what we're doing and punish them.
19:20
Speaker 1: I mean, insanely bizarre. We went from let's not do
19:23
Speaker 1: anything to Oh, they're trying to kill Trump. Well, if
19:26
Speaker 1: that's true, let's just nuke them.
19:28
Speaker 5: So you're right.
19:29
Speaker 2: The entire two hours, Tucker's position was do nothing on Iran,
19:32
Speaker 2: do nothing on Iran, do nothing on Iran, do not
19:35
Speaker 2: support Israel, do not support Israel, do not support Israel.
19:38
Speaker 2: But if Iran is trying to murder Trump, then we
19:41
Speaker 2: should nuke them. Okay, Ben, that's absolutely wacky. And look,
19:48
Speaker 2: it's the sign of someone who's not presenting an argument
19:50
Speaker 2: in good faith. No, we should not be nuking Iran.
19:53
Speaker 1: That that's not.
19:53
Speaker 2: A good idea. And by the way, this is a
19:57
Speaker 2: point where actually facts matter. And part of what was
20:00
Speaker 2: frustrating about this interview is that Tucker just says things
20:04
Speaker 2: that are blatantly false and he doesn't care if they're
20:07
Speaker 2: true or false. So this is an objective fact. I'm
20:10
Speaker 2: going to read to you from a political article on
20:13
Speaker 2: November eighth, twenty twenty four, not very long ago. Here's
20:16
Speaker 2: the title. Iran ordered an operative to assassinate Trump before
20:20
Speaker 2: the election. Federal prosecutors say the alleged would be assassin
20:24
Speaker 2: is believed to be in Iran and remains at large,
20:26
Speaker 2: Prosecutors said, here's the beginning of the article. The Iranian
20:29
Speaker 2: government ordered an operative to assassinate Donald Trump before the
20:32
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four election, Manhattan Federal prosecutors said Friday, the
20:36
Speaker 2: latest in a string of assassination plots directed at the
20:39
Speaker 2: former and future president in recent months. Prosecutors charged Farhad
20:44
Speaker 2: Shakiri with murder for hire and providing material support to
20:47
Speaker 2: foreign terrorist organization. He is believed to be in Iran
20:50
Speaker 2: and remains at large, Prosecutors said. The article continues quote.
20:54
Speaker 2: According to a criminal complaint unsealed in Manhattan Federal Court,
20:58
Speaker 2: Kiri said during fb I interview that in September he
21:02
Speaker 2: was directed by the Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran to
21:07
Speaker 2: surveil and kill Trump, whom the charging papers identify as
21:12
Speaker 2: victim for. When Shakiri told an IRGC official that doing
21:15
Speaker 2: so would prove expensive, the official responded that money's not
21:19
Speaker 2: an issue, which Shakiri understood to mean that the IRGC
21:23
Speaker 2: had previously spent a significant sum of money on efforts
21:27
Speaker 2: to murder victim four and was willing to continue spending
21:30
Speaker 2: a lot of money in its attempt to procure victims
21:32
Speaker 2: for assassination. According to the charging papers. So there's literally
21:36
Speaker 2: a Department of Justice indictments specifically against an assassin for
21:43
Speaker 2: attempting to murder Trump. There also, by the way, was
21:46
Speaker 2: a separate assassin who was arrested for renting an apartment
21:49
Speaker 2: next to John Bolton, an Iranian assassin that was there
21:52
Speaker 2: to murder Trump's former national security advisor. And as I noted,
21:55
Speaker 2: the Iranians put out an entire video, a minute and
21:59
Speaker 2: a half video. It's an animated video that shows Donald
22:03
Speaker 2: Trump playing golf and shows the Iranians using a drone
22:07
Speaker 2: attack to kill him. All of that is is objectively true,
22:12
Speaker 2: and yet Tucker says, I've never heard a word of it.
22:14
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about this, and I want to.
22:16
Speaker 2: I want to play this video right here. This is
22:19
Speaker 2: in Farsi, but but I want to play it, and
22:20
Speaker 2: then I'm going to tell you what what what he's saying.
22:22
Speaker 2: So give a listen.
22:26
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, mckinzio in.
22:47
Speaker 1: So let's just be queer. That's the IRGC commander live
22:50
Speaker 1: on Islamic Republic of Iran state TV and tell people
22:55
Speaker 1: what he just said.
22:56
Speaker 2: Well, his name is Amir Ali hadjes Zade. He's the
23:01
Speaker 2: commander of the IRGC. He's on national television and he says,
23:05
Speaker 2: quote God willing will be able to kill Trump, Pompeo,
23:09
Speaker 2: General McKenzie, and other US commanders. That's on TV now.
23:14
Speaker 2: Tucker spent the entire interview denying that Iran was trying
23:19
Speaker 2: to kill President Trump. That's objectively false. Facts matter, And bizarrely,
23:23
Speaker 2: he said, well, if that fact was true, he thought
23:25
Speaker 2: we should immediately attack Iran and we should nuw Kran. Well, no,
23:29
Speaker 2: that's not the case. We should not Knukran, but we
23:32
Speaker 2: should do what President Trump is doing right now, which
23:34
Speaker 2: is support Israel in taking out Iran's nuclear capability and
23:38
Speaker 2: their senior military leadership. That actually makes sense. And I'll
23:42
Speaker 2: tell you that. The day after our interview aired, President
23:45
Speaker 2: Trump was asked about the conflict between me and Tucker
23:49
Speaker 2: in the Oval office. And here give a listen to
23:51
Speaker 2: the back and forth President Trump had in the Oval
23:53
Speaker 2: with a reporter.
23:54
Speaker 4: Can you see the Tucker Carlson and Senator Ted Cruz interview.
23:57
Speaker 2: It seems like this issue on whether or not the
23:59
Speaker 2: United States strike is kind of dividing a lot of
24:01
Speaker 2: your supporters.
24:04
Speaker 3: No, my supporters are for me. My supporters are America first.
24:08
Speaker 3: They make America great again. My supporters don't want to
24:11
Speaker 3: see around have a nuclear weapon. Tucker's a nice guy.
24:14
Speaker 3: He called apologized the other day because he thought he
24:17
Speaker 3: said things a little bit too strong, and I appreciated that.
24:21
Speaker 3: And Ted Cruise is a nice guy. I mean, he's
24:23
Speaker 3: been with me for a long time. I'd say once
24:25
Speaker 3: the race was over, he's been with me ever since.
24:27
Speaker 5: Right, but very simple.
24:31
Speaker 3: If they think that it's okay for Iran to have
24:34
Speaker 3: a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me. But nobody
24:37
Speaker 3: thinks it's okay.
24:39
Speaker 1: This goes back to the very beginning and why I
24:42
Speaker 1: think Tucker was so hostile. He wanted a distraction from
24:46
Speaker 1: the fact that he had messed up with Trump. He
24:48
Speaker 1: had to call Trump and apologize, and he thought, all right,
24:51
Speaker 1: if I just go after Ted Cruz, maybe that'll fix
24:54
Speaker 1: all my problems. I don't think it worked well.
24:56
Speaker 2: And look, the reason that that Tucker had to apologize
24:59
Speaker 2: to Trump is that he had been publicly blasting Trump.
25:02
Speaker 2: He said Trump was complicit in Israel's war, and he
25:05
Speaker 2: said he said what Trump was doing was not America first.
25:08
Speaker 2: And President Trump tweeted out and said, look, I'm the
25:12
Speaker 2: one who created America first, and I decide what it is.
25:15
Speaker 2: And allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon that is
25:18
Speaker 2: not America first. And that's exactly what President Trump said
25:22
Speaker 2: in the oval. You know what's amazing. We've laid out
25:25
Speaker 2: the facts that is undisputed, by the way, out of
25:28
Speaker 2: one hundred senators, all one hundred degree, that Iran is
25:31
Speaker 2: trying to murder President Trump, even the looniest, even Bernie Sanders,
25:35
Speaker 2: even Elizabeth Warren doesn't dispute that Iran is trying to
25:38
Speaker 2: murder Trump because it's an objective fact. I've laid them out,
25:42
Speaker 2: those facts out repeatedly. You know, Tucker has not responded
25:44
Speaker 2: once to that. He has not said, oh I was
25:47
Speaker 2: wrong on that. He hasn't said, oh well, gosh. I said,
25:49
Speaker 2: if that was the case, we should attack. I ran
25:50
Speaker 2: immediately in nuke them, which, by the way, to be clear,
25:53
Speaker 2: we should not. At the end of the day, facts matter,
25:56
Speaker 2: and the good news is the Commander in chiefs JO
26:00
Speaker 2: is to be clear eyed and do what is necessary
26:03
Speaker 2: to keep America safe. President Trump is doing that. I
26:06
Speaker 2: spoke to him just a few days ago and I said,
26:08
Speaker 2: mister President, thank you, thank you for standing with Israel,
26:11
Speaker 2: thank you for standing up for America. Thank you for
26:13
Speaker 2: defending our servicemen and women. You noticed Iran has not
26:16
Speaker 2: attacked our servicemen and women because the President has made
26:19
Speaker 2: clear the consequences would be massive for doing so. And
26:23
Speaker 2: President Trump right now is being strong and resolute, and
26:27
Speaker 2: I'm proud to stand with the President that he is
26:30
Speaker 2: doing exactly the right thing. He is embodying America first,
26:34
Speaker 2: and he's keeping this country safe.
26:36
Speaker 1: And there's one big definition that has been coming up,
26:41
Speaker 1: and I've seen it a lot, and I've been asked about,
26:43
Speaker 1: especially since it's interview, and it's the argument, are the
26:48
Speaker 1: word isolationists or isolationism?
26:51
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
26:52
Speaker 1: And then your thoughts on it, Senator, so people understand it,
26:56
Speaker 1: but also what is your foreign policies so people to
26:59
Speaker 1: understand you're not an isolationist and you're not one of
27:02
Speaker 1: those it's like, hey, let's go to war everywhere we
27:04
Speaker 1: can't either.
27:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is something we talked
27:07
Speaker 2: about quite a bit in the in the the interview
27:11
Speaker 2: with Tucker Carlson, and and when he wasn't screaming at me,
27:15
Speaker 2: and it wasn't a mud mess. We actually laid out
27:19
Speaker 2: some really important basic philosophy on foreign policy. Look, historically,
27:24
Speaker 2: there have been two polls in Republican foreign policy. On
27:28
Speaker 2: the one side, you've had the interventionists. They've been people
27:31
Speaker 2: like John McCain, people like Lindsey Graham, who who are
27:35
Speaker 2: eager to use US military force, who are frequently advocating
27:40
Speaker 2: for a robust, robust use of military force. On the
27:45
Speaker 2: other pole, you have the isolationist and the most notable
27:49
Speaker 2: of those are Ron Paul and Rand Paul and Tucker Carlson,
27:53
Speaker 2: I think is now emphatically in that category as well.
27:57
Speaker 2: And their view is that that that America should withdraw
28:00
Speaker 2: from the world, that we have two giant oceans on
28:03
Speaker 2: both sides, and we should not employ the military. As
28:06
Speaker 2: Tucker said in an earlier clip we played, we should
28:09
Speaker 2: never kill anybody, which which means our military should never
28:12
Speaker 2: engage with our enemies. I've always considered, and most people
28:16
Speaker 2: look at that and say, Okay, you got to be
28:18
Speaker 2: one or the other. I've always thought both views were wrong.
28:21
Speaker 2: I disagree with both. I disagree with interventionists, I disagree
28:25
Speaker 2: with isolationist. I consider myself a third point on the triangle.
28:30
Speaker 2: I consider myself a non interventionist hawk. Now what does
28:35
Speaker 2: that mean. It means that I am exceptionally reluctant to
28:38
Speaker 2: you at use US military force. We should have a
28:42
Speaker 2: very high threshold for sending our sons and daughters into harms. Way,
28:45
Speaker 2: we should not engage in unnecessary wars. But and this
28:49
Speaker 2: is a very important butt, the touchstone for all foreign
28:53
Speaker 2: policy and military action should be the vital national security
28:58
Speaker 2: interest of the United States. So I opposed the Iraq War.
29:03
Speaker 2: The Iraq War under George W. Bush, I think was
29:05
Speaker 2: a mistake. It ended up making America less safe. We
29:09
Speaker 2: toppled a dictator, Saddam Hussein, who was killing radical Islamic
29:13
Speaker 2: terrorist and what happened. The radical Islamic terrorists took over
29:16
Speaker 2: and they began killing Americans. That was bad. I also
29:20
Speaker 2: oppose what happened in Libya. Kadafi was another dictator. He
29:24
Speaker 2: was killing radical Islamic terrorists. We toppled Kadafi and the
29:28
Speaker 2: radical Islamic terrorists took over and began killing Americans. That
29:31
Speaker 2: was bad. The touchstone should be does this make America
29:35
Speaker 2: more safe? Does this protect Americans? And the reason I
29:40
Speaker 2: believe that President Trump is exactly right to support Israel
29:44
Speaker 2: in stopping Iran's nuclear weapons capability. Is because Iran with
29:49
Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon poses a clear threat to the safety
29:53
Speaker 2: and security of America, a clear threat of murdering a
29:57
Speaker 2: vast number of Americans. That's why Israel is acting, That's
30:00
Speaker 2: why President Trump is acting. And I'll point out ben
30:04
Speaker 2: when I say non interventionist talk, that's a fancy way
30:07
Speaker 2: of saying what President Reagan referred to as peace through strength.
30:11
Speaker 2: Be strong enough that your enemies don't want to mess
30:14
Speaker 2: with you. If you want to avoid war, be strong.
30:16
Speaker 2: When you're weak, when you're isolationist, you end up with
30:20
Speaker 2: more war because your enemies are aggressive because they know
30:22
Speaker 2: you're weak. It is also, I believe exactly what President
30:27
Speaker 2: Trump's foreign policy is. It's what he has done consistently.
30:31
Speaker 2: And I agree with President Trump's foreign policy, and I
30:34
Speaker 2: will say that that's true on Iran, that's true on Israel,
30:37
Speaker 2: but it's also true on Russia. And I want you
30:39
Speaker 2: to listen to a back and forth that Tucker and
30:42
Speaker 2: I had on Russia, because that's another area where clarity
30:45
Speaker 2: is valuable. And here give a listen.
30:48
Speaker 4: Don't think that Putin loves us. I'm distressed by the
30:52
Speaker 4: moral condition of most leaders around the world.
30:54
Speaker 2: Most of them. They all kill people.
30:55
Speaker 4: I'm against that.
30:56
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I wish to focus here with more
31:00
Speaker 2: I say something. I actually don't agree with that statement.
31:02
Speaker 2: They all kill people. There's a moral relativism. So I
31:05
Speaker 2: don't think Donald Trump is a murderer. He doesn't kill people.
31:07
Speaker 2: We don't have customer Donald Trump murderer. And you just
31:09
Speaker 2: said world leaders all kill people, and there's a moral relativism.
31:14
Speaker 2: I'm hardly a moral relative, but you are.
31:16
Speaker 4: You just that statement was the estimated semi and isolation
31:20
Speaker 4: moral relatives.
31:22
Speaker 2: Okay, No, do you just say world leaders all.
31:25
Speaker 4: Killed saying I'm against killing people in general? So and
31:29
Speaker 4: hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB or whatever.
31:32
Speaker 4: I just want to serve American interest and pushing him
31:34
Speaker 4: to China is not in our interest in it.
31:36
Speaker 2: And you helped it, and you haven't apologized. And by
31:39
Speaker 2: the way, you're the cheerleader. I helped drive him into China.
31:41
Speaker 2: It's an empleite lie.
31:43
Speaker 4: You funded the war against him.
31:44
Speaker 2: No, I authored the legislation that shut down Nordstream too,
31:47
Speaker 2: that prevented the war and if Trump had still been
31:50
Speaker 2: in the White House, we would have had the war.
31:52
Speaker 2: And look the comment you made, the reason things like
31:55
Speaker 2: moral relativism are so dangerous. Oh, everyone kills people. No,
31:58
Speaker 2: there is a difference relative. We don't have concentration camps.
32:02
Speaker 2: We don't torture and murder people. You look at China
32:05
Speaker 2: where they've got a million prisoners in concentration camps. You
32:08
Speaker 2: look at Putin where he's got prisoners in Siberia. He
32:12
Speaker 2: tortures and murders his political opponents. Donald Trump doesn't do that.
32:15
Speaker 2: America doesn't do that. And by the way, countries don't
32:18
Speaker 2: do that. I see the game. It's like you're the rest.
32:22
Speaker 2: I'm distressed. Now I'm responding with facts. You don't like
32:24
Speaker 2: the facts. I don't even know what facts you're talking about.
32:27
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that Trump puts people in concentration camps.
32:30
Speaker 2: I can't paign for Trump. I love Trump, so did I. Okay,
32:32
Speaker 2: so this is something with Trump.
32:34
Speaker 4: I'm merely saying, you druve some more emphasis on what's
32:38
Speaker 4: happening inside the country.
32:40
Speaker 2: That's it. Is there a moral difference between America and
32:43
Speaker 2: our enemies in America? And what is it articulated invaluable
32:48
Speaker 2: to say why.
32:49
Speaker 1: Wow, And I think that's one of the biggest differences
32:52
Speaker 1: between you and Tiger Carlson right there in that conversation.
32:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:55
Speaker 2: Look, he would not say that Putin was a bad guy.
32:58
Speaker 2: He would not say that that that President Trump was
33:01
Speaker 2: right to take out General Solimani. He would not say
33:03
Speaker 2: that President Trump was right to take out Al Baghdaddy,
33:06
Speaker 2: the head of ISIS. He would not say that President
33:08
Speaker 2: Trump was right to take out Isis's caliphe and here,
33:11
Speaker 2: I want you to listen to this. Additionally, back and
33:14
Speaker 2: forth we had on Russia. Say, I don't understand for
33:17
Speaker 2: some reason, you are really invested in defending Russian I
33:22
Speaker 2: don't get that. I'm not attacking you with that. I'm
33:24
Speaker 2: genuinely like, I don't get why you're so passionate about
33:27
Speaker 2: defending Rusger.
33:29
Speaker 1: I mean, wow, Senator, the laughing at the end by
33:32
Speaker 1: him just because you were killing him with the facts
33:37
Speaker 1: really sums up the entire two hour interview.
33:39
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it was an odd thing because he
33:41
Speaker 2: would say things that were just wildly untrue. He'd said,
33:44
Speaker 2: every world leader kills people, and no, it is not equivalent.
33:48
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is not equivalent to Vladimir Putin. And that's
33:51
Speaker 2: frankly something that left to say, and unfortunately isolationists on
33:55
Speaker 2: the right say it as well, and it's simply not true.
33:58
Speaker 2: You know, we were having this interview in my office
34:00
Speaker 2: and the dominant feature in my office is a gigantic
34:05
Speaker 2: painting of Ronald Reagan in front of the Brandenburg Gate.
34:08
Speaker 2: And above him in German are the words tear down
34:11
Speaker 2: this wall in the style of the graffiti. I think
34:14
Speaker 2: those are the most important words uttered in modern times,
34:17
Speaker 2: and they call for the importance of American leadership. Now,
34:20
Speaker 2: as I make clear this interview, I don't want us
34:22
Speaker 2: to be at war with Russia. We should not be
34:24
Speaker 2: at war with Russia. But it doesn't mean we need
34:26
Speaker 2: to be cheerleaders for Russia, that we need to be
34:29
Speaker 2: cutting essentially infomercials for Russian grocery stores. We ought to
34:33
Speaker 2: speak the truth and the bully pulpit of the presidency
34:36
Speaker 2: is incredibly powerful, and I got to say again, President
34:38
Speaker 2: Trump is doing that beautifully. The entire point of this
34:41
Speaker 2: interview was for me to make absolutely clear that on Israel,
34:44
Speaker 2: on Iran, President Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong.
34:49
Speaker 2: And we stand with Israel and we will keep the
34:51
Speaker 2: American people safe.
34:53
Speaker 1: Don't forget we do this show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday,
34:57
Speaker 1: and make sure that subscriber auto download button wherever you
35:00
Speaker 1: get your podcasts so you do not miss an episode.
35:03
Speaker 1: And also tomorrow on Saturday, we'll have the week in review,
35:07
Speaker 1: some of the top things we talked about this past
35:08
Speaker 1: week that you may have missed, so make sure you
35:10
Speaker 1: listen to that as well. And the Senator I will
35:12
Speaker 1: see you back here Saturday morning.