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Judaism Uncut · Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, do you know what we're doing today?
0:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited about this one You told me, but here's the thing.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you're gonna introduce this so much better than I ever could because I'm so excited Oh go with it gyms and peas and gyms and peas and gyms We're gonna talk about gymnasiums and penises.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is so fucking excited about it
0:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, look, guys, there is some relevance here.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There is, for one thing, it's about how gymnasiums were Greek, whereas circumcised penises were Hebrew.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He had to be naked in the Greek gym, and so that was causing problems because then you could, you know, see, oh, shit!
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You had your four-skinned chobbed.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You're you're Jewish.
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and also what's going on right now in our world?
0:57
[SPEAKER_02]: All the Olympics.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Olympics.
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So, this is relevant on both a where we're at in our reading as well as in a real life time table.
1:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because it's similar activity.
1:10
[SPEAKER_02]: James and he's in just where he's where some of this stuff spawned from somewhat.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring a link at the song.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Swinging the two in fro Unless you got it tied down, which sometimes they do.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm so excited.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god It's gonna be so bad.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's gonna be awful.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it, right?
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You ready to do this.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
1:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you don't keep
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So this episode is about gymnasiums, okay?
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And because it's about gymnasiums, penises will happen.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we all know.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's, that's what happens as gymnasiums.
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, husband.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: When we talk about gymnasiums, we have to talk about the penis.
2:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the thing, gymnesiums don't show up in the Old Testament.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like indirectly kind of referenced, but they do show up in the macadudos.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is in some, the Catholic Bible.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
2:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, so yeah, it's in some Bibles, not, you know, the Protestant Bible.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we talk about gymnasiums though, sometimes I would, I would explain how that was a problem for Jewish people because the Greeks did their gymnasiums naked and you would kind of give me a look like what the fuck are you even fucking talking about you freak?
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it reminded me, I don't think it was that harsh, but well,
2:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm a little sensitive, so I probably read a whole hell of a lot more into it, but like a couple times you did look at me like are you sure you know what you're talking about?
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And like it reminded me that okay, this is the perfect time to actually be talking about.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Jimmy's the only one.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, my look with about that was more about the fact that sometimes you just like to like extrapolate information and out of the blue and I don't know the information that I can't call you on it.
3:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you sure you did your research on that because I don't know anything about gems and dicks?
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But that reminded me that way.
3:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know anything about ancient gems and decks.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know about gems and you know about decks, but you don't know about the whole Greek and Hebrew gem and deck, such.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
3:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about it.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so...
3:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It becomes a very important part of where we are in our reading, the macadudos, the space between the old and New Testament of the Bible.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that whole thing like gymnasiums is actually a large part of the contributing friction that gives rise to the macabrean rebellion.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
4:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because their presence, the gymnasium presence, is a huge, major cultural and religious situation, okay?
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So gymnasiums were Greek, not Hebrew, okay?
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're in this time period when we're reading, where the Greeks are moving in, right?
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You know coming together and splitting up right we've got epiphany's the OG villain right and he's like taken over right and he's like everything Greek
4:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, I don't know about all that.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, no, absolutely fuck you if you're Jewish.
4:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody's like, Jesus Christ, call me your tits, bro.
4:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, oh, I'm sorry.
4:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you Jewish at me?
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck you and die.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, so mean to all the Jewish people.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's the OG villain.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
5:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
5:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's, let's get away from that for a second.
5:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the gymnasium itself, right?
5:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a Greek institution where it wasn't just like, hey, I'm going to the gym for like like days.
5:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it wasn't like that.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just for exercise.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like an actual like,
5:30
[SPEAKER_00]: cultural social center like a rec center almost like it was you would go there and you would get education and identity um you would like meet their regularly and you would not just learn athletics but you would also take classes in philosophy, literature and social customs so like it was almost like a school like the gymnasium was like
6:01
[SPEAKER_00]: social center social center yeah yeah and the athletics were always done naked not because of like a sexual preference or anything like they were like it was just normal because the Greeks viewed the body as
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: um civilized like we all control our bodies.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're here to learn how to control our bodies even better.
6:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And so part of that is learning language, part of that is learning athletics.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And they just viewed it as very like natural.
6:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I would, I mean, there was a lot of learning about what it is to be human back then too, right?
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about it.
6:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I said philosophy.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like some of this is just understanding how the body moves and works and, you know, a very artistic take on it.
6:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, the word, um, Jim knows comes from the word naked, like it literally, like, I'm going to the gym, I'm going to the naked.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course you are.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
7:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It was deeply tied to Greek religion and culture.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And like everything about it was exactly opposite of Jewish culture.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they viewed nudity as like in a philosophical or an artistic or in a human, you know, way.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like very positive.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Jewish people, like they were like, no, you need to hide that shit.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to cover that shit.
7:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very shameful.
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like showing your shit is not okay.
7:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That's for you and God and maybe your spouse, but she serves fuck, but shouldn't enjoy it.
7:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's a thing.
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's in their book, right?
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like as soon as they found out about things, they had to cover themselves up.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like the first thing.
7:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
7:59
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like embarrassed and ashamed of their nudity, right?
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, given that we're such a Christian culture, I find it odd that gymnasiums and gyms are such a large part of our culture still, right?
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Because because it's, you know, it is a, we took it from obviously Greece, you know, and so I made that made the through line.
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I suppose Greece ended up becoming a large part of what it is to be great too.
8:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, that, that does make some sense as well.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's all a match.
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just interesting where it started, I guess.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Jews built a gymnasium in Jerusalem.
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the Jews built the Jews, okay?
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: In Jerusalem.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right.
8:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they were emulating the Greeks because, you know, the culture was going back and forth like the exchange of ideas and cool stuff, right?
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, that seems cool.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But also because it was being forced on them.
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to, I was just about to ask is that something that was like because an entire kiss epiphany was forcing Greek culture on to them.
9:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wondered if that was something that was forced.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It was bit of both.
9:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, definitely bit of both.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it this happened during the period of Greek control right after Alexander the great empire split.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So this was like right before entire kiss was like, you know what, fuck all you guys?
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So this was still during the exchange of ideas voluntarily somewhat okay, but there's still more but there's still more pressure than there was before with Alexander the Great correct correct
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, in first macabees, um, in chapter one, it says that Jewish leaders built a gymnasium in Jerusalem and they, those people were trying to become more Greek and they even attempted to hide their circumcisions to fit in.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about that because that's some crazy shit right there.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's tape like skin like we're going to talk about it.
10:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to build up to it because I was like, what?
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we'll get there.
10:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Now when they built the gym, they were like, you guys, you guys, you guys, we built this thing called a gymnasium and we're going to be naked in it.
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: This was seen as super shocking and shameful by traditional Jews.
10:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
10:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, I'm sorry we're going to wet now.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Because circumcision was the physical sign of the covenant with God, you know, from Genesis, right?
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the gymnasium naked athletics made the circumcision visible, which means that it was quite obvious who's Jew and who's not.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And there were Greeks running around town with these Jews in Jerusalem.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
10:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So when some of the Greek Jews,
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: we're like, hey, let's build a gymnasium.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds cool because you know it's the Greek thing to do and Greek is awesome, right?
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you love Greece?
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't we?
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's Greece.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at all those things.
11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Greece does.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, let's do a gymnasium and so they don't it.
11:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the local Jews were like, hang on what I'm sorry, naked.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, not only are you going to see me, which is shameful enough, but then I'm going to stick out like a sore dick.
11:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
11:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's not cool, sure.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And some Jews literally underwent very painful procedures to disguise.
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: their dicks, as not circumcised, okay?
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They were trying to fake a simulation.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even want to like, okay, look.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: If you say painful procedure to in today's day and age, I'm thinking, yeah, what you're going to get some like pain killers, you're going to get something, some numbing agent, you know, things like that.
11:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But I can't imagine that any of that happened back then.
11:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And the area that you have to adjust,
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not something that I really like imagining at all.
12:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Jim Nesian symbolized the abandoning of God's covenant, of their covenant with God, because God's like, hey, I'm gonna take total care of you.
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a thing that's gonna happen, and y'all are gonna chop your dicks, and it's gonna be great.
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna be Jewish people and follow all of these rules, don't eat shelf vision, whatever.
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: and you know, have all these fucking laws that you follow part of which is, um, chop off your foreskin.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be awesome.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So to faithful Jews, the gymnasium represented a rejection of Jewish identity straight up, like, you are deciding that you don't want to be Jewish anymore.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just that you want to fit in with them.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Couldn't she just be proud of the fact that you have a circumcised dick and then just be like,
13:02
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because their religion was wrapped up in it.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
13:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And the shame of being naked in the first place, but yes, yes.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And also because it was embracing pagan culture in their view, it was like
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like the kids, their kids were like, come on, let's go to the gymnasium and be Greek with each other.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to go learn all the cool things.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my, look, all the boys still have their four skin.
13:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, right?
13:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there was all that.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, I want to not have four skin.
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I want to put my four skin back on.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And the parents are like, absolutely fucking not.
13:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be pagan.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, but I want to, but they were, if they were doing that, they were choosing Greek values over y'all ways laws.
13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So it wasn't just about exercise, it was about loyalty and identity to God.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So this led directly to the Mac to be in revolt.
14:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, when entire kiss of Piffinies pushed aggressive cultural assimilation, he banned Jewish practices.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He defiled the temple.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He forced pagan worship and he was like, y'all, I don't know if you remember, like, there was a bit where he said, y'all gonna get your asses into that fucking gymnasium.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna grease, yeah.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, boom, we don't do that.
14:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
14:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's crazy.
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: and then gymnasium was part of that broader push.
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I was saying at the time, like, what's the big deal?
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, oh, because they did it make it and because, like, it was a bigger deal than just go to the gym.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was because of, it was specifically because of their circumcision would make them stick out.
14:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
15:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a lot of talk about the true Jewish people.
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a lot of, especially in the first book that we read, right?
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They definitely distinguish between the good and the bad Jewish people.
15:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you are you?
15:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a lot of anger at the ones that were conforming to.
15:22
[SPEAKER_00]: assimilating, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, it was, yeah, it made it really rough, but it also explains better to me.
15:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, remember, we had a hard time understanding, like, I thought if you were Jewish, you were just Jewish.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
15:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why were the macabees hiding?
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And who were the, there were Jewish people going along and Jewish people not like, in my mind, they were all one people, but they weren't, it was Jewish and it's due because of all of this other stuff happening.
15:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And the gymnasium was the biggest, like, symbol of that.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that that is really pointed out enough.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, whoa, that's a big deal.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though gymnasiums aren't in the main Old Testament narrative, they definitely explain the cultural crisis that shaped later Judaism.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And this period helps explain why the Jews were fiercely protective of their identity in the New Testament.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they were already going through all of this, like, will they won't they go along to get along?
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to keep their circumcision?
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to keep circumcising?
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they not like, where does this all go, Ray?
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, granted, we're not as a new testament, so we're not experiencing that yet, but this is all leading up to that.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, this is also why Greek culture was seen as very threatening because even as it was more philosophical and more kind of like embracing the maths and the sciences and we did that whole episode on Greece of baby.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And how was like the golden age of Greece was all during this time period?
17:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome, but not for these people.
17:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because it goes against what they say.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything, it went against everything they stood for.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it explains why groups like the Pharisees existed, which we haven't got to them yet, but that's gonna be a thing.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this is part of the background of what Jesus was seeing when we get to the New Testament.
17:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha.
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And just as a side note, um, if you really want to not have a good rest of your day as far as what you're thinking about.
17:43
[SPEAKER_02]: go do a search for what they did to have these procedures.
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We are gonna talk about it.
17:50
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18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So apparently in the book of Daniel, which we did already read, there was reference to this whole situation because the book of Daniel reflects resistance to the Greek cultural pressure.
18:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we do, I do remember that that they were like growing up there and not cool with everything that was going on.
18:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
18:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And like one of those examples is that Daniel and his friends refused to assimilate fully into Babylonian culture.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they got thrown into the fire and the lion's den.
18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was separate, but yeah.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, that was one of those Daniel's stories.
18:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was one of the, yeah, but it wasn't the, yeah, but there wasn't him and his friends, him and his friends was the fire.
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were dancing in the fire and all of that.
19:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
19:01
[SPEAKER_00]: With the ding dong guys.
19:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So that whole situation with Daniel Tully anticipates the later gymnasium conflict.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it it's part of the greater story.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so gymnasians represented the Greek assimilation versus Jewish covenant identity.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like these two not just culture clashes of should we go to the gym or shouldn't we?
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so much bigger than that.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wish I understood that at the time.
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No, there's so much with regard to like historical context that we
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We find out later sometimes that we're like, oh, shit, we missed a big chunk of what that really meant because we didn't know.
19:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know.
19:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of one of the things that I really enjoy about what we do is that as we're going through this and learning more about everything,
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It starts opening up all these other historical perspectives and all these other things that we didn't know about before that we're like, Oh, and honestly because of the cultural But how much this is ingrained into our culture like it's you can't know until you know right and and it's it's really like when we watch certain things.
20:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like oh shit.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that reference
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'm like, that's really cool because now I know what they're talking about and like I that was one of those things about like growing up that I never understood this whole
20:30
[SPEAKER_02]: hurt of people's lives that they all have this basis of knowledge that I didn't have and now I'm starting to have some that you know which is I kind of enjoy having that cultural reference to be able to call to call up when I'm you know in the middle of something yeah okay I get that I get that I understand I just do that reference I don't know that I need to know about you know remudelating a dick but you know it's all in there yeah yeah yeah yeah
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was curious.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, we're going to get to the deck thing.
21:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just, I want to lead up to it because, um, you know, you were, you were right when you were like, holy shit.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that was my reaction.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I'm trying to like ease into it.
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we get to the dick itself.
21:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to start with the balls, right?
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, actually today we are discussing about what was the, I'm just joking, but it's just fun to say sure we're discussing balls right I mean we can discuss balls another time if you like you know you
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right, I'm always here for the right
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They considered it a natural, honorable, and morally superior form.
22:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't such a lie.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It was morally superior.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you were clean.
22:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You were at your cleanest.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You had nothing hidden.
22:32
[SPEAKER_02]: The pure human form.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And their idea of what God and humanity was about was much different than what?
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the Jewish culture.
22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
22:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't sexual in any way whatsoever.
22:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I kept being like, yeah, right.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, it's a lot of great art.
22:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all new.
22:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
22:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was all philosophical aesthetic and social.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: um we already said that the word gymnasium comes from the word um the same word as naked yeah okay so it was like the defining feature can you imagine the world this would be if we grew up with Greek as the main religion and like if the Greek guys were the you know like
23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: There would be such, I feel like we would have been much more scientifically advanced and we would have, like, you know, there's no going back and doing it.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We do be weird, just weird to ours, but it would be different, right?
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel like that would be a good show to like, reimagine what our world would be like, if Greece won out as a post-acrypt.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if if if a Greek mythology won out as a post-acryptanality, right?
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Temporary, you know, bro.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:45
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
23:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I, I, I, I signed up for that show, even with the hoodie.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a poor thing.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes my into that a little better, you know, maybe, I mean, I, I could be wrong.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It could, it could have gone the other way, you know, who could have already hit the singularity and we'd all been done for, but see, there's that too.
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: There's how much sooner would we have got to AI for.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Or would we already have blown up the fucking planet?
24:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, you know.
24:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they would have hit the sciences even earlier.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you know.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
24:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The Greeks, as we've already said, they celebrated celebrated.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just like we're interested in it, but celebrated the human body as an ideal, okay?
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: The human body, they believe, reflected harmony, balance, and excellence, because a well-trained body, which they were hitting the gym regularly, they never missed leg day, right?
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so they were always well trained and that showed their discipline and their virtue and their self control.
24:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about that in a minute.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: The self control specifically.
24:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
24:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that they were naked showed off all of the work that they had done to try to perfect their body.
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't like my body is better than yours.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It was my body is in its
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: peak stage.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it wasn't shameful.
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, ah, one pump.
25:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm shorter than you.
25:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not as good.
25:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It was these human bodies are all different and they're all in their peak states.
25:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that was what they were looking at.
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So the comparison was a lot different.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There was less
25:37
[SPEAKER_00]: The concept was part of what they called Erie.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was the excellence of mind and body.
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And the two went hand in hand.
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: mind and body okay because remember this place was also where they were in language and culture and philosophy like they went there to learn everything mind and body okay and that you already pointed out is why Greek statues are nude um it totally wasn't meant to be pornography.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: No I really they had a very they had a um
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a very large amount of curiosity about the human form and about science at that time about like you said math like there's a lot of things they were exploring with regard to what human possibility and potential yeah, which I just love the idea of.
26:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that being naked was part of that whole culture that they were living in the science is not just, exactly.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, not just exploring the sciences.
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's such a great way of saying it.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Athletics were also tied to their religions because of their bodies.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So events like the Olympic Games, which you know, were currently going through right now in Italy.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they honored gods such as Zeus.
27:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was that aspect as well.
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, competing naked with seen as pure honest and respectful because again, there's nothing to hide.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all on display and it's all looking for the best possible way that things, it's kind of like how,
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I love ice skating, so to me, that's where my mind goes for perfect examples.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always looking for the perfect way to be able to do certain moves.
27:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like for example, with ice skating, I can specifically remember this was like right after the Tanya Harding
27:50
[SPEAKER_00]: um awesome awesome skater um she was a black French girl gorgeous skater and she would always do a backflip and she would always get points deducted but for her she was she would look at that with um discussed because she was in it for the art and perfection and the moving
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Not I mean it was about the...
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: just making it better, you know, how can I keep doing this and pushing it more?
28:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, over the years, other skaters have done that as well.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was never considered a skill that they were allowed to do because the back foot, every jump that you do has to be one that you can land on one footed.
28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So, sorry, bonnily?
28:50
[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds correct.
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't doubt that that is who it is.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And just for the record, we are live on discord tonight.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, come join us next time on discord.
29:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can answer my stupid questions too.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: but the jumps that are scored, you have to be able to land on them one footed.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was believed that the back flip wasn't one that you could land on one footed.
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So not only could you get scored well on it, you would get negative because you did a jump and landed on both feet, right?
29:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though you did this awesome thing, that's very difficult to do.
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: you weren't following the rules.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: They're great, right?
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And she held that in just such disdain.
29:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she's like, fuck, you all do my own thing anyway, right?
29:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can specifically remember this situation because I think she got like silver during that time period.
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And she just was like so full of disgust for silver, right?
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember,
29:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in agreement with my parents at the time going, oh, how could you be at the Olympics and like scoffing at getting silver?
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what the fuck is wrong with you?
30:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to wonder now looking back if there was a little bit of racism in that, like my parents looking at that and being dissatisfied with her dissatisfaction.
30:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that that's the case.
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have to wonder, because now when I understand in the situation better, I understand she wasn't scoffing at the silver.
30:34
[SPEAKER_00]: She was scoffing at the entire organization not wanting to push the art form forward.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I get that, but I don't know that, like,
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because she did that over the years, several other skaters have proceeded to push the boundaries and this year finally.
31:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this is where I paid off.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And somebody, you see, you started to be like, oh, you got to follow the rules?
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, no, you know.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But the whole point of the fucking Olympics is about the perfection and cherishing the boundaries of what the human body can do.
31:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
31:19
[SPEAKER_00]: She understood that intrinsically.
31:21
[SPEAKER_00]: She understood the philosophy of it.
31:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: and the the people in charge of running it and scoring it, they get caught up in the technicalities.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And and they forget what the Olympics are about.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they came from.
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a little off topic, but it's a Olympics.
31:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're on talk about penis isn't like fine.
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking about a gorgeous girl doing a fantastic fucking back.
31:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love it.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
31:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that the first person who did it was a dude, if I'm not mistaken, that wasn't American, and I'm like, fuck yeah.
32:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And he landed on one foot.
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it can be done.
32:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Not easily.
32:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so they were honoring the gods by doing that, the Olympic thing and trying to push their bodies to their upmost, much like the skaters, okay?
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was pure, it was honest, it was respectful, there were no hidden advantages, nothing concealed.
32:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all out there in the open to all about the human body, okay?
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously because they were naked, this prevent a cheating, because without clothing, athletes couldn't hide weights, they couldn't conceal weapons, they couldn't gain unfair advantages.
32:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everything was visible.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone did pull everyone as, you know, the same.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Transparent.
32:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:55
[SPEAKER_00]: this created equality among the citizens.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So in theory, the nudity erased visible markers of wealth, status, and class.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone just looked the same.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: All just bodies.
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: No, and it's an interesting concept as far as humanities concern, you know, like that intrinsic equality.
33:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do the mind though, this was just the dudes.
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but still, we're talking thousands of years ago, right?
33:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Even at that, we're still talking about an idea that is hard pressed to be equaled today.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes, but let's talk about attempts to remove appearances of classism.
33:41
[SPEAKER_00]: One way to do that in schools, for example, is to go with school uniforms, right?
33:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So everybody wears the same school uniform, right?
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
33:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't like that necessarily because then it defeats individualism, right?
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the bright side, it removes classes.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm except does it, though, because then we've got.
34:02
[SPEAKER_00]: The girls will wear their diamond earrings and their flashy hairdo and their hairdo and their nails and their jewelry and their shoes and their bags.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And so think about that because we're going to get to a coutry mall.
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Of the men who are in their nudity got it.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so they they they still find ways to bring class.
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course they do.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can't get rid of showing off your shit.
34:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You just can't.
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be really nice we could though.
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, wouldn't it?
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: If we just could all be human beings together on this planet and just like exist as
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: If everybody would follow the spirit of the law and remember why we're doing this, but they don't, they don't follow the spirit.
34:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't remember the spirit.
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: you know show off show off and be the best and be the richest and be the bravest or whatever right yeah um so those whole thing reinforced Greek identity okay um they saw the nudity as civilized and therefore they saw the non Greeks as barbaric
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They were uncultured because they could be unsurcumcised.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Heathens over there, wash, worship in their Yahweh and show them off their dickheads.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually how profane.
35:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually to them, it actually really was from a very mental level.
35:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
35:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll get to that in just a second.
35:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
35:42
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: when your dick head is covered, you are very civilized, who are, well, but it's because that's what your body is.
35:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's much like any other culture.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the culture that they were used to, right?
35:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a weird scenario for me to imagine where people are used to seeing circumcised dicks just all the time and like it's weird if you, like the fact that there's an oddity, the scene, a different dick.
36:07
[SPEAKER_02]: To see me is like, yeah, right.
36:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, when you're worried about the different types of dick, so I'm like, man, that's a whole different world than I live in.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, like, not only am I seeing all the dick, that's funny enough to me, but now I'm like judging whether or not I can see your dick head though.
36:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah.
36:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's the judgment, not the, not what you're not supposed to walk in with.
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Not, not, but no, your penis.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's what I'm judging you one.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Jews found this very horrifying, as we could tell they might, because in the Hebrew Bible nakedness is usually associated with shame, vulnerability, humiliation, right?
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, in Christianity still views it that way to this day.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: All the Abrahamic religions seem to still do this day.
37:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's a great aspect of what that religion brought to the world.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The Greeks definitely had this part right, I think.
37:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Better.
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Better.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Comparatively speaking.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we had the gymnasium, they were rejecting Jewish modesty norms.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They were exposing their circumcision.
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They were symbolically embracing Greek identity.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't just about the exercise.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a bonus detail that I found a little surprising too.
37:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just the people that were competing that were in the nude.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The spectators.
37:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
37:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We're also usually either naked or very minimally closed.
37:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: The nudity was not scandalous.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just part of the thing.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, from the images I've seen of Greek culture in general, they didn't, they mean, because you know, you're whatever you like, they didn't wear a whole lot, but didn't seem like they were very, seem like from what I generally, this is a generalization from what I generally understand about Greek culture was much more open with regard to sexuality and different things with regard to the human form.
38:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did, however, recently watch something in one of the classes that I'm watching about that time period, where I saw, but let's take a look at the togas for a second, they were like,
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: very difficult.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They were huge and difficult to wrap and like the women's hairstyles, like all of their dressing could not be done by themselves.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And that speaks to how dependent they were on slave culture.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
38:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean.
38:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So they didn't have it all right.
38:54
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it's important like I don't want to completely romanticize them and say that they had it all right, they clearly didn't because what we're talking about right now is a it was the men doing this.
39:11
[SPEAKER_00]: not the women.
39:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So clearly the women were not equals, but that's okay because the women had slaves helped them dress every morning.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They literally could not dress themselves.
39:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They literally could not, like if you see the hairstyles even on art that has survived to this day, it was so intrinsically woven every day.
39:35
[SPEAKER_00]: A slave had to get up and weave their hair and so
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: their hair and create those styles that took like hours to create.
39:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was just the norm before they could leave the house.
39:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, let's not completely romanticize Greece.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I love so much about the Greek culture.
39:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I just never want to forget, though, that... Well, it's easy to romanticize a culture that we didn't end up having.
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
40:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And we ended up with the Jewish slash Christian culture that came from
40:12
[SPEAKER_02]: This real, right?
40:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is the culture we got stuck with.
40:17
[SPEAKER_02]: This is this is Western culture, right?
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The grass is always going to be greener.
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know.
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
40:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:24
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we don't know.
40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But, but there are aspects of it.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
40:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, that could have been better.
40:30
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is the way we should have done here.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a bit absolutely.
40:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We only need that way.
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bit absolutely we're better.
40:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, in our opinion, the way they viewed the human body and the way that they had philosophy.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: front and foremost.
40:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, their science and maths, we can't question that.
40:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There were so many things that, yes, they had right.
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: They had better.
40:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
40:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But as a whole, no, but you know, I mean, we could have got to eugenics.
40:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So we could have got to, you know, any number of things to have made that a worse track for human history, too.
41:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, there's just so many things that could have gone wrong with that way, too.
41:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just,
41:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we are.
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I only brought that up because like we were really certain to go to, oh my god, I fucking love green right.
41:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't want to forget that now they were sexist and they had slaves just like all the rest.
41:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't know how that would have turned out.
41:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's continue on.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So circumcision.
41:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
41:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It became such a huge conflict in gymnasiums because it was the single most visible irreversible marker of Jewish identity, like gymnasium circumcision.
41:44
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what this episode is ultimately about, right?
41:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like gyms and dicks.
41:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Because those were the two things that were like, oh, damn, and here we go.
41:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That is absolutely what this was what it all came down to, gyms and dicks, okay?
42:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It couldn't be hidden.
42:06
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where it came to confrontation, okay?
42:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Circumcision was the core sign of the covenant.
42:15
[SPEAKER_00]: According to Genesis chapter 17, God commands Abraham that circumcision would be the permanent physical sign of belonging to capital HM, okay?
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just symbolic, like you couldn't just like go through the motions.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't just like give it lip service to speak.
42:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You literally had to physically have your four skin chopped off.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there was no getting around it.
42:44
[SPEAKER_02]: The scene that always comes to my mind is from Robin Hood men and tights.
42:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Mel Brooks is like, just gonna snip the tip.
42:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
42:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: God even says that an uncircum-sized male is cut off from the covenant.
42:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so to speak, yeah, yeah, this was not like opt out.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this was not just like, you know, do you or don't you want to?
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It was identity at the very deepest, most physical, this rural level, right?
43:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now remember when I said the Greek Saul circumcision as ugly and barbaric, yeah, here's why they viewed.
43:26
[SPEAKER_00]: they viewed the foreskin as part of the complete male body, okay, not just, you know, something that you take off in throw away, right?
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's part of us.
43:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they appreciated the human form.
43:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That was on the bastardation, bastardization of God's perfection.
43:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
43:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, they saw it as mutilation, disfigurement, proof that some of them was a foreigner, like, just very obviously, like, you look at those weirdos, right, ruining their bodies.
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Our God's makeup and this perfect damage, we should, you know, which is, which is odd to me, why?
44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you would think that your body is your example.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That whole thing doesn't make sense with me with regard to Yahweh and Judaism and Christianity.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because Christians are very much like how dare you get a tattoo or peer-sure ears or... Yeah, they're very concerned about it.
44:22
[SPEAKER_02]: With other regard, we're concerned with other things, but not facts.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
44:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And it depends.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they're, I don't know, they're very, they're very wishy washi on when your body is a temple and when it's not.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in a culture obsessed with bodily perfection, the circumcision was definitely a negative stigma.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So this, me, the Jewish people, open to ridicule exclusion, even loss of status.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't have certain social statuses.
45:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't have certain jobs like once we see your dick and we know who you are, it doesn't matter.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You're done.
45:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You're out.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this isn't like you could just be in the closet.
45:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like,
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: how you know people with the quote unquote wrong skin color like you cannot hide this it's a fact of appearance.
45:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
45:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
45:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just pass as Greek.
45:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you are Greek,
45:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so this is where we're going to get into some of those, um, painful reverse.
45:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So for the week of stomach, um, you might not listen to the next, uh, yeah, however many minutes.
45:53
[SPEAKER_00]: No shame if you, like, no bow on.
45:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I based on what I read already.
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: This, this is not, not great.
46:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
46:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So ancient sources such as, meaning there are more than one source.
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not the only place where it's mentioned.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
46:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Ancient sources such as first macabees describe Jews trying to quote unquote remove the marks of circumcision.
46:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And the procedure was called epispasm, or epispism.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it sounds great.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like I'd be having a spasm.
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it involved stretching the remaining skin of your penis to simulate a foreskin.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And they would do this to try to avoid shame, gain social acceptance, advance politically, or to be seen as fully
46:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually saw there was a couple of different things.
46:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting there.
47:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
47:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me get through mine.
47:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you, I'll show you mine.
47:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can show me yours.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um,
47:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Some Jewish people believe we should modernize and join Greek culture.
47:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, they're pretty cool, man.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Then others obviously were like, that's a betrayal.
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be dumb.
47:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
47:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, to this macabees.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Mothers who circumcised their sons were executed under Greek rule.
47:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, say it one more time?
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: When in Tijicus, a Piffinese came into rule.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, no, circumcision is outlawed.
47:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why he opened the gym, so that... Oh, to check.
47:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then after that, mothers who circumcised their sons were executed.
47:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So this had become very political.
47:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.
47:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Circumcision was no longer just a religion.
48:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a fucking resistance.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
48:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
48:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how I would have gone on that, you know, like, I mean, you're risking execution over it.
48:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy.
48:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
48:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But.
48:13
[SPEAKER_00]: if you think that ultimately you and your son's soul is that state.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
48:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I get it.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, hold on.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to find, I lost my space, my place here.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
48:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So this early conflict shaped Christianity from the beginning.
48:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Hold on.
48:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you still getting to me?
48:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I am still going to get there.
48:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:39
[SPEAKER_00]: My notes are out of order because I'm an idiot.
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
48:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was like, no, I, I know.
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I will get there.
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Just my notes are out of order.
48:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will get to the dick.
48:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not that I really, I just, I don't, I don't want, yeah.
48:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to not leave out the dick stuff.
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it seemed like you were talking about it then you went away from it.
48:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, because I'm like, where the fuck did my dick stuff go?
49:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah.
49:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a question I ask all the time.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's my dick stuff all the time.
49:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you asked that of me or do you ask that of yourself right when I wake up Where's my dick stuff?
49:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot I cannot okay, listen Um, this conflict directly shaped early Christianity.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, one of the biggest early Christian debates was Do Gentile converts converts converts?
49:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they need circumcision?
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh
49:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, apparently the Apostle Paul argues no, you know, Matthew Mark, Luke.
49:37
[SPEAKER_00]: John.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:38
[SPEAKER_00]: All the guys.
49:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
49:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So Paul says no, you don't need to circumcise.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because circumcision have become such a loaded cultural boundary marker.
49:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why Christians some are in some aren't, but it's like a personal health choice at this point, not necessarily for Christians, not necessarily like a, you have to do it or else you're not a good
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: sure at their baby's birth for for many for many.
50:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still required for Jewish people, but I think that they wait until their son is like 13 or some shit like that.
50:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
50:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know about all that.
50:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just crazy to me.
50:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I find it crazy that circumcision in the year of our Lord 2026 is still a thing.
50:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Not my Lord.
50:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Not my Lord, but still.
50:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here we go.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to know more about Epispasum.
50:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so just to cover real quickly, the procedure that you described before was not the procedure called Epispasum.
50:51
[SPEAKER_02]: That was called stretching or drawing.
50:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
50:53
[SPEAKER_02]: The one that you're about to describe is the Epispasum.
50:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what I saw in my notes is that epispasm literally means to draw over the word epi means over and spale is to pool.
51:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well they might have both been known that by that there's the one that I saw, there's a surgical procedure.
51:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's two.
51:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's yeah.
51:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Specifically described as epispasm.
51:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me read mine and then yeah, I don't know that I need to read mine.
51:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll follow along and I'll add that anything if I need to.
51:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so at this phase, it was a real documented medical procedure and it was practiced by actual physicians in the Greco-Roman world.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not just desperate improvisation and secret backrooms, like where women go to get abortions.
51:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
51:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this was like, no, I'm going to go get like my belly button pierced or I'm going to go get my laser eye surgery or I'm going to go get my dick stretched what yeah these are just things you do right.
51:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Although, secrecy and shame were definitely part of it for a Jewish men, because... Sure.
52:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
52:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, epispasm literally means to draw over.
52:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it literally means pulling the skin over.
52:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And the goal was to restore the appearance of a foreskin.
52:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not true regeneration.
52:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cosmetic reconstruction.
52:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's explicitly described in ancient medical textbooks and I will get to the the other thing in a minute.
52:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, there's a medical, a Roman medical writer named Allus Cornelius Selsis, from the first century AD, who describes the procedure in his book, Day, Medicina.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And he explains step-by-step, which I know we all love.
52:52
[SPEAKER_00]: How physicians could loosen the shaft skin, surgically?
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: stretch it forward and secure it so that it's covered the glands.
53:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Loosen this can is a very delicate way of putting slice it.
53:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Slice it away from your dick and pull it over the dick head.
53:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this was a clinical formal medicinal thing.
53:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they did.
53:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good stuff.
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was not mist.
53:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not like stories or rumors like This was actual surgical literature like what this is just what you do.
53:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
53:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You just slice up your dick and move this skin around
53:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally cool.
53:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
53:40
[SPEAKER_00]: There were two forms.
53:42
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a surgical and a non-surgical.
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
53:45
[SPEAKER_00]: The non-surgical epispasm was more common early on and involved attaching small weights to the skin and gradually stretching over months.
53:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was like similar in concept too.
54:00
[SPEAKER_00]: you're gauging so like for those unaware you can stretch the like if you get your ear pierced the way that people get like like I didn't know this for the longest time like how do they get those giant keep increasing the game yeah you just keep the gauge is the size of the hole in your ear when you get your ear pierced and like every so often then you just get a bigger size
54:26
[SPEAKER_00]: piece, which is the gauge in the size of the hole.
54:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And so over time that's how you increase the size of the hole in your ear.
54:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can see people in other countries like Africa comes to mind just because that's like the most prominent example where they'll have the giant earholes.
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: stretching.
54:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's happening over time is that you're pulling your dick skin down slowly over time to cover your dick head.
55:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The tissue expansion used in modern reconstructive surgery emulates this as well, which I didn't know.
55:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It was slow, but it was a lot safer than what came later, which was surgical epispasms, and that was a lot more extreme.
55:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Sources describes cutting the skin to free it, so pulling the skin away from the dick, pulling it forward and allowing it to heal in the new position over the
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: This was obviously very painful, very risky, very prone to infection, because let us not forget they didn't have antibiotics back then.
55:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, what, what, what, what George died from dick surgery.
56:00
[SPEAKER_00]: He was such a dickhead.
56:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Dr.'s performed it very openly in Greek and Roman society.
56:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just a thing.
56:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the key cultural difference for Greeks and Romans.
56:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't shameful.
56:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just cosmetic correction.
56:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just like, oh, yeah, my stupid mom got me, you know,
56:22
[SPEAKER_00]: She circumcised me when I was a baby.
56:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a choice, and I would like my dick skin back please Yeah, so they would like when they go get that fixed So doctors offered epispas on the same way that modern doctors would offer scar revision or cosmetic surgery It wasn't illegal.
56:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't shameful at all.
56:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
56:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Although Jewish men likely sought this out very quietly, um, Well, yeah, you wouldn't want to, that's something you want to, yeah, you're trying to do it to save your social,
56:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
56:59
[SPEAKER_00]: A, you don't want your Greek compatriots to know that your dick is messed up in the first place.
57:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And B, you don't want your Jewish friends to know that you're trying to erase your Jewish identity.
57:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're hiding it from both parties, right?
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially your mom, I imagine.
57:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So in Jewish communities, reversing circumcision was seen as apostasy because you're turning on God.
57:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a betrayal and a rejection of the covenant.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just not good.
57:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was also a non-surgical device called that can not us me.
57:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was a string tied around the foreskin and fasten to the waist.
57:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And Greek men used it to keep the foreskin pulled forward to maintain the culturally preferred appearance.
57:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jewish men without foreskins couldn't do this.
58:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
58:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where we get the classism
58:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And they would just be like swinging the dicks around like look at my fancy rope tied around my dick skin.
58:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't you wish you had a fancy rope like mine tied around my dick skin.
58:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you
58:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So they could just, like, dance their, their dick around happily, you know, and here's why it mattered.
58:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
58:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
58:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because
58:50
[SPEAKER_00]: The Jewish circumcision evolved to remove more tissue, making reversal much harder because of epispasism.
58:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
58:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the more that Jewish people tried to later on correct it by
59:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, oh, my mom got me circumcised that was she hadn't because I want to be Greek so bad.
59:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
59:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So then Jewish people would be like, okay, well, I guess we better like circumcised up higher.
59:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know what I mean?
59:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
59:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.
59:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
59:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.
59:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's us.
59:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's fun.
59:32
[SPEAKER_02]: This is this episode about over.
59:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I love my music.
59:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Take.
59:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
59:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's the thing, the Greeks believe the ideal penis was small, controlled, and covered.
59:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what is up with that?
59:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why did guys care so much about the fucking dicks just like they do today?
59:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just saying, like, how's that changed?
59:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like,
1:00:00
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole deal where men are just enthralled with their penises, like it baffles me, and it's been, it's just always been that way, men are so weird, you know, they've just always just been like, my dick, my dick, look at my dick, see my dick, I have a dick, look what my dick does, I better touch my dick and make sure it's still there, whoo, I sure do have a dick, okay, um,
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_00]: The the dick for the Greeks was about like self control and rationality, it was not about sexual dominance.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, like when they tied up the strings tied to their, there wasn't about sex at all.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not about sexual dominance.
1:00:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about classism, but it was also about showing that they were under control.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_00]: They had self control.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_00]: They were not like prone to just like,
1:01:01
[SPEAKER_00]: wild sexual, like, whoa, I just got to go get some right now.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like just an example of how in control of their body in mind, 100%, they were like the original insult but without like the, no, they were not the insult because insult is involuntarily
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of the no-fab guys?
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:01:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The no-fab Jim Bros.
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Believe that if you don't even masturbate at all that that is how you reach peak perfection.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like who are you saying is like this the grief the Greek god why do you think they were like that because they were tying up the ends of their dicks to show off that they were in perfect control of their mind and body that's what that it was about Okay, I told that he got there from there to know fab that's all because they were walking around with their
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_00]: skin pulled over their dick head and tied up in their fancy rope around their waist to show specifically, I am a no-fap guy.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in control of my mind and my body.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Sex does not even enter my brain.
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Look how
1:02:23
[SPEAKER_00]: look how in control of myself I am.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very deliberate.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It was it was not about virility.
1:02:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about self control.
1:02:32
[SPEAKER_00]: The foreskin symbolized restraint and modesty and
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why when they saw your dickhead, when they saw you be circumcised, they were like, you are you have a lack of control, you have excessive lust, you are just shameless, you are gross.
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you should be like me and know that guy.
1:02:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You're nothing but like an animal over there.
1:03:02
[SPEAKER_00]: All you clearly I can see your dickhead, all you do is fuck.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You must not have a brain.
1:03:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just an animal.
1:03:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That was like the way that they viewed that.
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So the foreskin physically covered the most sensitive part and symbolically that man could control his impulses if his dick was tied up nice.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so a covered glance meant a civilized man and an exposed glance glance was an impulsive man.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
1:03:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:03:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were the original no-fap crew.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, when they saw these people walking around circumcised, they were like,
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_00]: you are probably stupid, you must be drunk, you're out of control, your like a lot of their art would show people if they were circumcised, they would show them with really enlarged
1:04:13
[SPEAKER_00]: If your dick head is exposed during animals, so they would draw them with large penises and often erect and just very sexualized.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like think of the cedar, that's the like fawn guy that was like lusty or like,
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_00]: part of that whole bucket and Dionysus, like very sexualized creatures.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's part of what that is about.
1:04:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
1:04:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So to them, like the no-fap was just all brain, you know?
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:04:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, yeah, if you get circumcised you're an animal in their mind.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just, it's cultural difference.
1:05:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:05:03
[SPEAKER_02]: They're calling out that their culture is better than the other culture, and that's the way every culture is ever just in the history of the world is operated.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just as interested in the dick, but from a completely different perspective, they're both looking at each other's dick going, oh my god, you're dick.
1:05:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and it just so happened that at the time Greek was the more dominant culture.
1:05:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:05:27
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it just.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why their prominence was winning out at that point in time.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but that didn't, you know, keep them in power.
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, math only gets you so far.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Math only gets you so far, but it also helped when the Romans came and took over.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Romans took their masks.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And their gods.
1:05:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:05:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, eventually we have to move, you know?
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're good.
1:05:55
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying.
1:05:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait.
1:05:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what that was all about.
1:06:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the dick thing was all about.
1:06:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, dicks or gross, but only part of it.
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
1:06:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to say, if you made it this far on this episode, I'm really impressed.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you know doubt like about 10 minutes ago because you were just like what?
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, we've been talking about chopping dicks for the last 10, 15 minutes.
1:06:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's a bit much.
1:06:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But hey, you know, um, was that all you had?
1:06:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I had.
1:06:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
1:06:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, unless you want to talk about more dickheads.
1:06:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
1:06:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm good.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
1:06:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm done.
1:06:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm ready to go.
1:06:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And deans.
1:06:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Peter's and beans and beans.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_02]: No no thanks for joining this everybody.
1:06:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even talk about scrotums and balls really appreciate you coming out not Saxon and we're gonna be back next week.
1:06:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're hopefully we'll be back soon with that.
1:06:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been We're gonna get back on a break in this schedule soon, but because winter is almost over.
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Winter's almost over.
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah This is no as melted.
1:07:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining this everybody peace out.
1:07:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye