Latest / Strange Stuff Podcast / Episode 232: Astral Projection - Silver Cords, and Out-of-Body Escapes

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Episode 232: Astral Projection - Silver Cords, and Out-of-Body Escapes · Strange Stuff Podcast

• Andy: Hello everyone, I'm Andy. Mark: I'm Mark, eating a biscuit. Andy: And this is strange stuff podcast. Several hours later than we planned. Mark: Indeed it is. Well, it wasn't my fault. I mean, I had actually was my fault because they had given me notice two days ago. So I, I just forgot. Andy: Oh, well, I mean, you're excused because your senility is only 24 hours. So. Mark: You Andy: I actually woke up to no internet this morning which was terrifying for me. Mark: I can imagine. No friends. Andy: Well, nothing. I mean, you can't watch the TV. You can't get online. You can't play games. You actually have to. Like. Yeah, and I already had a bank. Mark: Do something real. Like read a book. That's as real as it gets for you, is it? Andy: was like, what am I gonna do now? Mark: Why? Andy: It just happens from time to time. was snowing quite heavily at five. It's snowing, actually, I don't know what your weather's like, but this is perfect Varsalock weather. It's like minus one today and it's been snowing gently, well, not gently, but gentlier since about 10 o'clock. Mark: How was it? We've got ⁓ No, it's not. That's not a word, but ⁓ we've got rain. But it could be fantastic conditions because let me just check because if it's raining today and tomorrow. ⁓ it's sort of a bit rain slushy thing is what you want is a wet track the day before they do the track and then it freezes hard and then it gives really fast times. Looks quite good, minus 5 overnight on Sunday and then 0 degrees during the day so it might be okay actually. Andy: Well, it's Saturday night that's important, isn't it? Mark: That's what I mean. So do I know. Yeah. So, it's all happening, though. In fact, today is a day off. There's no races today. Andy: Is there, have they still got low beer tints? Mark: No, no, they gave that up the year that you got kicked out. Andy: What do mean the year? There's many years I've been kicked out. Mark: I think every year you went there you got kicked out. And just for listeners who don't know where I live in the middle of Sweden, we have a really big ski race. It's a ⁓ series of races that go on for a week and a half. And the big race is called Vasa Loppet and it's a 90 kilometer cross country ski race. And there are about think there's about between 15 and 17,000 people that take part in this race on that day. think 50,000 competitors over the week, 17,000 on that one day. It's a big event. Andy: it's it's always a bit of a mess at the starting line. Mark: It is, unfortunately, there's a bit of a bottleneck about two kilometres, two and a half kilometres after the start, or maybe a bit shorter than that. And sometimes you're literally standing in a queue with thousands of other people waiting to get up this really long, steep hill. So in fact, Andy: They'd be completely fucked if they were behind me. Mark: Well, they would be because in fact, you get all the amateurs, know, the sort of inexperienced skiers right at the back. And it's not unusual for someone who's sort of scampering up the hill to break someone else's stick. And you can't ski 90 kilometers with only one stick. So, you know, some people don't get more than three K into the race before all of that training is blown out of the water. Andy: for buggers. Mark: Anyway, yes, I haven't done it. I started one year. Andy: I remember, but then you started thinking you were having a heart attack. Mark: No, it wasn't a heart attack. My lungs... No, I knew it was my lungs. I had a lung infection or a chest infection. Chest infection for three or four days before I started, but I'd done so much training. There was no way I was not going to start. And I got a third of the way into the race and there was a control and I went to the medical tent and they said, ⁓ you're mad. Andy: I know it wasn't a heart attack, but you thought it was. You're gonna die. Mark: Well, apparently, you know, I was thinking, well, you know, I know it's a chest infection, but apparently, if you're doing arduous exercise with something like that, in some way, the infection can go to your heart and suddenly you literally stop living. Andy: Yeah, I mean that's what infections do, they infect your blood don't they? Sepsis. Mark: Well, whatever. after that, I don't think I've really skied that much because I did a lot of training. think I did 800 kilometres training for that event. Andy: Oof, that's quite heavy. Mark: and it came came to nout. Nada. Nix. Andy: They had a snow event in New York. Mark: 30 centimeters I think it was. Andy: Yeah, and it was in Washington Square where a group of individuals or two groups of individuals initiated a snowball fight and cast down the gauntlet. So the New York PD did what they do best. They went to police the matter. What do you think might have happened? Mark: ⁓ yeah, we had a snowball fight. Yes, exactly. Suddenly there were three teams on the snowball fight. Two against one. Andy: Now thing is, they lost a great opportunity to do some public relations. Because if they'd have just gone out there with their riot helmets on and let people pelt them a bit, it would have gone down great. But no, now the police have gone to hospital with injuries and they're looking at prostituting and... ⁓ Mark: What are you talking about looking at prostituting? What's that? ⁓ prosecuting. Andy: Well, you know, prosecuting. They turned it into a fucking, look at me, I'm hurt. Look at what they did to me. This is coming from grown men who shoot people in the street every day for a living. Mark: I don't know how bad it is, but I do know. ⁓ Who is the mayor, Mamdani? can't remember the name of the mayor of New York. Anyway, yes, he is, he's, you know, he was saying it's a bit, it's a bit OTT. Andy: It's a con. What, having a snowball fight or the police even hurled him out of it? I mean, if you're going to outlaw snowball fights, you better start rounding up every kid in the country. Mark: No, no, the police reaction to people having a snowball fight. Yeah, exactly. I don't remember that many snowball fights when I was young because we only had two or three bad winters in southern England that I remember. I think I was about I think I'll know. do remember on one occasion. Yes, I must have been about eight or yeah, maybe eight and and my next door neighbors, the trobes, Mr and Mrs Trobe and their kids. They were going snow. They were going sledging. said, Mark, do you want to come along? Mom, mom, can I go sledging with the trobes? was anyway, the only Andy: Yeah, we didn't often have snow in London, that's for sure. Nanny, Nanny, can we go to sleep, Mark: waterproof shoes I had were Wellington boots, not surprisingly. So I went off in my wellies and mum wasn't the most practical individual in the world. And within about half an hour, my feet were literally freezing and we stayed there for a good few hours. I got all, I can still remember actually, got home, my feet were literally like blocks of ice. I put them on the radiator and as they started warming up, the pain came. Andy: Of course. because you had a little pair of nylon socks on. Mark: And I was literally in agony for about half an hour as the warmth came back into my feet. Anyway. Andy: I have to tell you this little story because it's brilliant. Mark: It can't be as good as my cold feet story. Andy: And while I was researching for this week's episode, I came across a little thing and it's basically an invention. It's from the mid 20th century and the world was brimming with pseudoscience at the time and curious, yes, and curious inventions promising all sorts of miraculous cures. And amongst them was this thing called the Orgon Accumulator. Mark: 1950s, mid 20th century by the way, yeah. Andy: And it was designed by a psychoanalyst called Wilhelm Retsch. And Retsch claimed that orgone was a universal life force that permeated the cosmos. And by sitting inside one of these metal and wood chambers, one could concentrate the mysterious energy and heal all sorts of ailments. Mark: perfectly reasonable. Andy: I mean, it's on paper. It sounds fantastic. Now, the Orgone accumulator was sold in the 1950s, which, as I say, allowed a person sitting inside to attract Orgone, which was a massless healing energy. Now, the FDA noted that one particular purchaser, a college professor who knew it was fake, but he found it very helpful. because his wife would sit quietly in it for four hours every day. Fucking genius. Best ten dollars I ever spent. Mark: to they sell the I'm sure you can buy things. I'm sure you can buy things online now today. 76 years later. I'm sure you can buy pyramids pyramids that you sit in. Andy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah and they heal your back brain or whatever. Mark: Your back brain, what's that? Andy: That's the asshole. Mark: Now, did you sit through the whole of Trump's speech? Andy: I didn't because I knew that you would. there's no point. who's got that much time to waste? I've got over two hours, if I've got two hours to waste, I'll listen to a couple of our old episodes if I want two hours of bullshit. Mark: I didn't. I couldn't. I couldn't face it. An hour and 46 minutes. I did that yesterday. Actually listen to one of our old episodes. Andy: Really? Which one? Mark: Which one was it? The time travel one? Err, San Pellegrino man. Andy: That wasn't an old one, that was only a couple of weeks ago. Mark: Yeah, but whatever. mean, it's just, ⁓ it was, it was actually quite entertaining even though was me on it. Andy: Yeah, it's funny because you don't really listen while we're recording. That's the thing. You don't really get that. You don't get my jokes, that's for sure. Mark: No, you don't. No, no, that's true. That's unlikely to change. Andy: Talking of jokes, Harry and Megan are doing a little bit of a faux royal tour, aren't they? Yeah, I don't know. I just saw the story quickly. What caught my eye was the fact that they visited like an addiction center, a rehab for druggies. Mark: Are they? I don't know that. Where? Around where? Disneyland. Yeah. Andy: Do you know what they did? They left them a little note saying, it's OK not to be OK. Mark: What? Andy: Fucking hell, what a result, ⁓ Imagine being a junkie. Yeah, that was was their generous gift. Thanks very much for your fucking thoughts and prayers. Can you imagine being a junkie? You've run out of places to inject, so you're you're injecting bath salts in the end of your cock, but this fucker holds hands you a little card saying it's okay. Not to be ho- Mark: It's okay to not be okay. What? It sounds a bit weak. What do they think they're doing these two? Andy: weak as hell weak as hell Mark: William, William was in the news. He was he wasn't performing too well the other day. Andy: on the island. Mark: No, it was something about William and Kate. There was bit of criticism going on. ⁓ of course, and the BAFTAs. That must have been wildly entertaining. Andy: Apparently not, because a lot of people have taken offense at the chap who was up for an award for his documentary. Well, yeah. Yeah, I swear, yeah. Mark: Yes, John. He wasn't up for it. He was the main character of one of the award winning films, I swear. But what I find, I mean, you know, OK, he's got Tourette's, of course, he's. But why didn't they warn? Why didn't they warn the presenters that he was in the audience? Andy: Gag him? Please say gag him. I'm fairly certain everybody knew he was there after the first couple of minutes. Mark: But, well yes exactly and so why would I can't well obviously I know the story I don't know how much offence was taken by anybody actually there but it was reported. No no no that's the ridiculous thing I mean why the BBC where it's completely out of context. Andy: ⁓ no, thanks for taking afterwards. You've got to remember that this is a man who, whilst being honored by the Queen, said, fuck the Queen. He did. So anything below that is really not that offensive. He fucking did. It's true. Fuck the Queen. Mark: He didn't! He didn't that's a story He didn't I'm gonna check that I'm gonna check Andy: He fucking did! This is a guy I want to go out for a beer with. This is class ⁓ guy. Mark: But you know, if you're in the audience, obviously you know that the film I Swear is up. You know the main character of the movie is there. And so you have a build up. As you say, it was obvious within the first two minutes that he was the Tourette's sufferer. Andy: He made himself well known. Mark: But I can't understand why the two presenters weren't... I mean these people have flown in from America. Would you like to present an award at the BAFTAs? ⁓ yeah, sure man, that sounds really cool. They're standing up on stage and then suddenly they get racial abuse shouted at them. I'm not surprised they look a bit despondent. But the stupid thing was, as I have read the story, firstly... These two people didn't know he was in the audience. So when he starts shouting, they literally think there's someone shouting racial slurs at them. But the BAFTA representatives didn't say even after they'd presented the award, ⁓ guys, sorry about that. That's John Higgins. He's got Tourette's. He's a main star of the audience, as it were. So I'm sorry about that. Nothing like that. And then the other ridiculous thing, and I completely agree with it, is the BBC, with a three hour delay between transmitting it and it going live, sorry, between the live performance and them transmitting, they didn't delete it. I mean... Andy: Well, you know, this is a BBC for you. Mark: I mean, it is just rank incompetence because the people who switch on the TV might not have the content. It's two black guys on stage and suddenly there's someone shouting at them anyway. that was, ⁓ you know, I mean, I reckon to be honest, you know what I know? Do you want to hear my conspiracy theory about it? Viewing figures for things like the Academy Awards and the BAFTAs. Andy: You ⁓ Go ahead. Mark: have fallen off a cliff. Well, hang on, can I finish my story? Because what? Gervais doesn't do anymore. I think that they left it in. I reckon the organizers were pleading with the BBC to leave it in because they knew it would generate such uproar and publicity that people might have actually watched it. It's just marketing. Andy: Yeah, and you know why? Because Ricky Gervais doesn't do it anymore. That's why. Because Ricky Gervais doesn't do it anymore. Yeah, true. 222. Mark: That's my take on it. Anyway, so that happened this week. The BAFTAs. Andy: There's another story in the news that's quite disturbing about microplastics. Apparently now microplastics are so pervasive that we now have microplastics in our sperm. Mark: I might have in your sperm. Andy: And that's across the board. Even billionaires have microplastics in their sperm. And you know what that means? Children have to eat it. Mark: How many billionaires were willing to submit to sperm tests to see how much microplastics were in this? Andy: Well, you know, just pump the children's stomachs and find out, wouldn't they? Mark: ⁓ dear. It really is. It's not Orwellian. When you have a particular target group that people are becoming more more hostile towards, probably justifiably actually in many cases. No, no. But sorry, I know that was supposed to be a joke and it was sort of a mildish joke, but ⁓ you... Andy: I was going to say there's no one going to give you any grief about getting angry about billionaires. well actually quite very funny. Mark: You have to think about these, well not you, but people have to think about these microplastics because they are... No, no, no, I'm sure it is. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's not that they're in your stomach. It's like they're in every cell of your body, as it were. Andy: But it's actually true, there isn't any human being on the planet. ⁓ you're perhaps crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we are fucking made of PVC. Mark: I haven't tested my Harrymunt recently but I can't imagine it's got that much plastic in it and if it is plastic it's good quality stuff. Andy: Well, mine still tastes the same. That's all I can say. Mark: Is this something you do quite often, Andy? Yeah. Andy: Looks like it. Smells like it. Mark: I actually met a couple, I think I've told you before this story, who used to drink their own... Yep. That was quite a thing. What? Quite a lot of... Don't be stupid. Don't be... If they're starved not... You don't... You don't drink other people's weed, you idiot. Andy: urine. Well, you know, there's a lot of people who that. ⁓ ⁓ You'd be amazed. You can sell that shit online, you know. Why not? Look, if you're willing to pay for people's dirty socks and dirty underwear, why not their pee as well? And bath water. Old bath water sells well. Not yours, obviously. I can tell you that there was at least one hot gamer chick who was selling her bath water for $5 a vial, and she was selling a lot of it. Mark: That's only in Japan. Who sells old bath water? You reckon Taylor Swift has a special old bath- Andy: I mean, a lot. Mark: I could even, I could even check. Andy: You just have to take her at her word. I mean, she would take a picture of herself in the bubbles. Mark: ⁓ really, filling up the vial with the barcode on it. Andy: I mean but you can see you can imagine that she's basically in the garden with a hose filling up all these empty vessels ⁓ getting ready to be shipped out. Mark: Now she probably throws a few bath salts into it. Bit of dirt. Andy: What? Mark: She must spend a lot of time bathing, that's for sure. Andy: You can get a lot of vials out of a bath of water. Mark: But it is mainly the Japanese who go for these sort of things, isn't it? Andy: Not so much anymore. Now we've got the worldwide web. mean, can be amazed at your customer base. Mark: Have you ordered any? Have you ever ordered anything? Andy: haven't I have tried selling it to no avail. ⁓ Mark: You've tried everything haven't you? ⁓ I tell you what, here's a compliment for you. don't, yes it must have been released because I saw it on the Facebook thing. ⁓ You did, well we alien, no we were doctors. That was good. Andy: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ you like that, did you? Playing dress up. Nanny, look, look, Nanny, I'm Doctor. Mark: The only thing was it's... Idiot, I'm trying to pay you a compliment on the work you've achieved. But how do they get a... that was almost like a profile picture. How do they get a profile picture of me? Because I've never shown the side of my face. Andy: No, but I do that. I do those thumbnails on Riverside where we record. So they've got us right now. They can take any frame they want from our recording. And they give me a choice to pick from and I place us in certain positions and then I get us dressed in the proper attire. Mark: ⁓ I see. So I see, so you're able to take the image of our face and then you put it into your AI consultant and they turn me into a doctor. Andy: it's a little bit simpler than that. I mean, I basically, I basically press a button to say, make a thumb now. And it makes a thumb now with us as we are. And then I say, make us into doctors. And then it gives me another one. And then I say, change the title to this. And then I say, make me look much more intelligent than Mark. And it says, I can't go that fucking. Mark: A little bit simpler, yeah, it would have to be. Doctor. ⁓ Andy: ⁓ We're not that advanced. Mark: Exactly, It was quite good though. I mean, you know, if you, you know, if you got into it and you know, you had a bit of time on your hands, you could do some quite interesting stuff, I'm sure. Andy: possibly. Mark: Oh, is that what you do? Is that what you do? Andy: I I'm a man, know? Mark: Is it you're the main supplier of celebrity porn reimagined on the internet are you? Andy: I mean, no, you're not actually, there are lot of hurdles when you try to create stuff with AI, because it mostly won't let you use famous people. When we did the, ⁓ I think it was a Patreon episode, or maybe not, when we did the celebrity catfishing. Mark: Is that right? It's actually got, they do have blocks, do they? Yes, Brad Pitt. Andy: Yeah, I tried to get us to look similar to Brad Pitt and Keanu Reeves and it said, no, we're not doing that. Mark: Is that right? It actually says no mate, I'm sorry that's a step too far. Alright, so there are limits on to what you can do. Andy: Yeah. Although I'm sure that there's ways around that as well. If you say it's for a research project or something. Yeah. I'm just astid then. Mark: Mmm. I'm a student. For what purpose would you like a naked picture of Keanu Reeves? I'm a student doing research in two. Andy: Well, no, you've got to do it. You've got to do it in the right steps. You've got to say, well, I'm a student and I need a picture of Keanu Reeves dressed as a doctor. And then you can say, now make me naked. Not that I'm giving lessons here. You understand? Please don't do this at home. Mark: Ha ha ha ha ha. I hope you don't suddenly disappear one week and I read about it in the Shalefteo Bladet that you've been arrested for producing port celebrity porn in your living room. Andy: and sending them money. Mark: Exactly. An unemployed Englishman has been arrested? Andy: How stupid could I be? I'm creating the catfish and then paying them! Mark: You Anyway, what else is going on in the world? think that's... ⁓ yes! I don't know, we talked about it last week. You were absolutely spot on about the moon launch. I mean, it was incredible. I think you said last week actually that it was going to be delayed. Andy: I know, I know, I hope... What was the day before? It was the day before I said, I wonder what excuse they're going to come up with to delay the Artemis rocket and fuck me they did. Mark: It was a leak. Andy: We are better than the Simpsons. The Simpsons used to predict things years in advance. I do it right now. So if you want next week's lottery numbers, cross my palm with silver. Mark: Clearly. Yeah. ⁓ Really? ⁓ dear. I've got a busy afternoon. Andy: Anyway, let's get into it because we've got stuff to talk about. We don't have to go into the state of the nation. mean, it was basically just nearly two hours of complete and utter bollocks. Mark: 1 hour 46 minutes. But the interesting thing was, you see the GOP guys sitting there completely dumb-faced? I mean sometimes on, with a fellow holding up a board clap and they'd all clap and then they'd sit down and then they look completely stone-faced. Andy: like, ⁓ Well, I mean, there's not much to do, is there? They're sitting there listening to the shit coming out of Trump's mouth. What are you going to do? You can't pretend that it's actually real and get all excited about it. Mark: The Democrats were quite I thought the Democrats, they certainly have a good sense of humor. The Democrats, Trump at one stage said, I'm going to fight ⁓ corruption in government. And then suddenly all the Democrats stood up and started clapping. Exactly. Nepotism. I'm going to fight nepotism. Hooray. He's just saying exactly everything that he does. Andy: Stop right now. Mark: Anyway, sorry. So what is it? It better be good. And what you've got to tell me now is that are people paying good money for this or is this a freebie so I can just relax a bit? Andy: Now this is Sunday's episode. So this is our normal episode. And it's a shame, it's kind of a shame because our Anesthetist episode was a paid episode. And this episode is born of that episode because you asked if we could do one on astral projection. And I thought. Mark: This is a freebie. Alright, so I don't have to put that much effort into it. ⁓ dear. Yes. Yes, are we doing one on astral projection? Andy: We are, we have covered it before but I think you sort of skated across it so we're going to do a little bit of a deeper dive. Mark: Good. Can we avoid medical terminology because I got a bit lost with all that medical terminology. Andy: But I hate it as well because I am not an unintelligent person or by any means a bad reader, but some of those medical terms are just ridiculous. Mark: I think I need to review these scripts. Before you go ahead with the green light for production, I think I need to review them. Andy: phone. We haven't got time. We haven't got time because with your dyslexia that means we get one episode a month. Mark: It would take a couple of weeks for me to read three pages Astral projection Andy: Mmm. Mark: I'm not that bad. I can read quite well. It's just I don't really. I mean, I do read books. Of course I read books. Anyway, carry on. I like this. Do you have to be drug drug drug induced to experience a bit of astral projection? Andy: It helps sometimes. But across centuries and civilizations, mystics, saints, shamans, and ordinary people have whispered of the same impossible experience, leaving the physical body and traveling beyond it, floating above their sleeping form, moving through walls, and visiting distant lands even. Mark: This is the one I want. That's what I want to do. Andy: crossing into realms of light, shadow and intelligence. And the phenomenon is often called astral projection. And the idea is that the soul, spirit or subtle body, as it's sometimes called, can separate from the physical form and journey elsewhere. Now, some people would call it a myth, others would call it a hallucination, and yet more would call it awakening. So today we're going to explore its religious roots. its paranormal implications, its spiritual warnings, and the true stories that have left even skeptics unsettled. Mark: I wanna go to Paris. Andy: You used to have a house in France. Did you know? ⁓ a flat. A pied de terre. A pied de terre. excusez-moi. Mange tout, my friend. Mange tout. Mark: I didn't had a flat in France. Piedotaire. What's, Monge 2, Snowpea, what's that got to do with anything? Andy: Toot mon amus! Mark: You know I'm learning French at the moment. Andy: Why? It's got to be one of the most pointless language in Europe to learn. Mark: I don't know. Well, they're our neighbor. Well, if you're in England, there are no. No, but I just get so tired of, when I've told people that my mum was French and I don't speak a word. It's just shameful, really. Andy: I mean, I'm not gonna not being funny, but you're gonna die before you learn to speak French fluently. Mark: You're probably right and I'll tell you what the the wordy bits I do find a bit I do find them a bit tricky I have to say Anyway carry on astral projection Andy: That's the language. All right, so this isn't just a story about strange experiences. It's a story about what we actually are. So long before the modern term astral projection even existed, civilization spoke of the soul's ability to travel. In ancient Egypt, for example, priests described the bar, B-A. Mark: No. Andy: a spiritual double that could leave the body and move between different worlds. Tomb paintings show a bird with a human head hovering above a corpse, symbolizing this liberated spirit. In India, the oldest spiritual texts, the Upanishads, there's a word, Upanishads. Mark: Old what? Old my pants. ⁓ my pen Andy: I'm probably pronouncing it really badly. Mark: It does, it sounds like a bit shat in your pants. Andy: But if you want me to pronounce it properly, I'm gonna have to do a little bit of a Tourette's-y thing. or punish us. Mark: That's not Torezzi, that's an Indian accent. I wonder if you're allowed to do them these days. I mean, we joke about Cornish pilots, or even pirates. Andy: It's too late now, I've done it. ⁓ Anyway, yeah, in the oldest of the Indian texts, the Upanishads, they speak of the subtle body or the sukshma sharira, capable of traveling beyond the physical limits. Yogis, and we're not talking the bear, described conscious departure from the body during deep meditation, a practice later elaborated in the traditions of Hinduism and Buddhism. Mark: Now here's, I'm going to test your memory. I remember when I was a child, they actually had news reports of bouncing yogis. Do you remember that? They literally had these yogis, deep meditative individuals from India who were able to sit cross-legged and then suddenly, doing, they'd bounce a meter into the air and then come back down. Andy: What? and levitate. ⁓ Mark: you literally you had news items and I think it was at the time when that Frank Boff fellow no no no but it was it was do you remember god dear his testing in memory do you remember the news program that came on at six o'clock every day called Nationwide Andy: ⁓ I think I could fake that. Yeah, and I remember Frank Buff and what he'd been witted of. Mark: Exactly. Well it was that sort of program that had the bouncing yogis on it. Andy: I mean, it's pretty simple to fake that. It's just a springboard, isn't it? If they don't actually levitate, if they just get, badoing, that's the reason. Mark: What? ⁓ No, it was literally boing, boing, boing. It was like kangaroos. It was wonderful. I don't think it was. Andy: Well that's just basically sitting on a trampoline, isn't it? Mark: Anyway, so I know a thing or two about yogis. Andy: Okay, well Tibetan mystics in particular developed what they called dream yoga and milam techniques, which were meant to train awareness during sleep, not simply to dream lucidly, but to move in non-physical realms. In the Tibetan book of the dead, the soul is described as navigating subtle planes after death guided by awareness. But here's what's a bit unsettling. These texts don't present astral travel as fantasy. They present it as a skill. So the word astral comes from the Greek astron, meaning star, and the astral body was believed to be a luminous double, an energetic counterpart that mirrors the physical form. And mystics across cultures describe it similarly. It's weightless, it's able to pass through matter, and it's connected to the physical body by a cord of light. Mark: Mm-hmm. Andy: And that chord appears in religious art, in occult diagrams, and countless firsthand accounts. Many refer to it as the silver chord, echoing a mysterious line in the Bible from Ecclesiastes. Or ever the silver chord be loosed. Now was this poetic metaphor or something witnessed? Or just like the rest of the Bible, complete and utter fucking nonsense. Mark: ⁓ that's a bit unkind. Andy: Okay, it's maybe not all nonsense. Mark: You don't understand. Many people took many years of effort to construct the Bible. You shouldn't dismiss it. Andy: Yeah, you're right. When you build a scam that elaborate, you should be allowed to profit from it for at least 2000 years before someone rips it to shreds. Mark: Alright, that is quite interesting though. So this silver thread... Andy: Yes, the silver cord. Mark: the silver cord connects your physical body to your spiritual body and is spiritual the same as sort of your unc- you know outside of the physical stuff? Andy: Yes. Well, yeah, spiritual is non-physical. I mean, it could be your soul, it could be your alter ego, your subconscious. It could be anything you want to call it that's not physical. There are multiple witnesses, if you consider Padre Pio. Mark: What is that? Is that a person? It's a fella. Andy: It's a fellow. Multiple witnesses claim that Padre Pio appeared in places far from his monastery, sometimes to soldiers in wartime and sometimes to the sick whilst physically remaining elsewhere. Mark: Are you? Sorry, is his name Padre Pio? Father Pio? Alright. Father Pio. Andy: Well, Padre is in father. Padre Pino. I hope. Otherwise, his parents were very fucking prophetic. Mark: You're right. I baptised this child Padre. ⁓ Father. Andy: So church records document sworn testimony from people who insisted that they spoke with him in person, even though he never actually left Italy. Mark: Hmm. Andy: Similarly, Teresa of Avila described moments where her soul seemed to leave her body and ascend into divine realms. And she wrote of raptures so vivid and real that they terrified her. The question is, were these visions or were they journeys? In Christian mysticism, the soul ascending towards God is often symbolic. But the physical details in these accounts, the movement, sensation and the return, feel strikingly literal. Mark: It's probably true to say that one's mind is so powerful that it can create almost any situation and you believe it's real. Andy: We do have the ability to fool ourselves. Mark: I mean, very convincingly. Andy: Yes, I mean I do it every day when I look in the mirror. Jesus, you're hot. Mark: Yes, you're right. And anybody who's seen a picture of Andy knows what a stretch of the imagination that must take. Andy: Sometimes I look in the mirror and I take myself straight back to bed. Mark: You Andy: in Islamic mysticism, particularly in... Mark: Hang on, are we finished with Padre Pia? When was he around? Sorry, this character. I know you didn't tell me and I know you don't have it in your notes, so that's why I'm asking you. Yeah, exactly. Andy: in 2023. until 1545 when his train arrived to take him home. So in Islamic mysticism, particularly in Sufism, where there are teachings ⁓ about subtle spirit travel, the Prophet Muhammad's night journey, known as Isra and Miraj, describes a miraculous transport from Mecca to Jerusalem and then through the heavens. Now, whether this is interpreted physically or spiritually, the event suggests a journey beyond the normal constraints of space. And Sufi mystics later described states where the soul could detach and travel in realms of light guided by divine presence. And the consistent theme across religions is this consciousness is not confined to flesh. Now, fast forward to the 20th century and reports of spontaneous out of body experiences increased, especially in near death situations. Then came one of the most controversial figures in the subject, a chap called Robert Monroe. Mark: Monroe as in the shock absorbers. Andy: Yes. Or Marilyn. Mark: ⁓ yes, Marilyn Monroe. Andy: probably more recognisable to most people than the shock of the door. Mark: the manufacturer of shock absorbers. Andy: where do you come from? In the 1950s, Monroe began having involuntary out-of-body experiences. And unlike mystics, he approached it experimentally. He documented vibrations preceding separation. He described floating above his body, and he tested whether he could observe real-world details while out of his body. His work led to the founding of the Monroe Institute, where audio frequencies were developed to induce altered states. Monroe claimed the astral plane was layered, not just a single realm, but multiple dimensions, some populated by intelligences that weren't human. He described encountering beings made of light, and he also described darker territories. Now if astral projection was mere fantasy, why then would governments investigate it? Mark: I'm sure they've investigated all sorts of nonsense. Andy: During the Cold War, the US government funded psychic research under what became known as Project Stargate. Mark: ⁓ is that where the movie came from? Andy: Yes, and the goal was remote viewing, the ability to perceive distant locations without physical presence. Mark: A bit of voyeurism. Andy: Yeah, basically. One of the key figures was Ingo Swanton, who claimed to view targets thousands of miles away. You know, you'll have to take that up with your Google. Mark: That's not a name. ⁓ Ingo Swann Andy: Ingo Swan with two N's. He described structures on Jupiter Before, and get this, before NASA's Pioneer 10 probe transmitted confirming data, well, I'm going to call bullshit on that real star. Skeptics, like me, dispute these claims, but declassified documents actually confirm this. The government took the possibility seriously enough to spend millions investigating it. So yeah, the governments spend millions investigating it. In 1997, a woman named Maria claimed that she floated above her body during cardiac arrest and saw a tennis shoe on a hospital window ledge on a floor of the hospital that she had never visited. A social worker later found that shoe exactly where Maria described. Mark: But hang on a second, we're talking about pretty local travels. If you suddenly found yourself out of body, wouldn't you want to go to the Maldives or Paris or Rome or something? Why would you just want to sit on a window ledge and look at a tennis shoe? Andy: Well, I would imagine for the first few minutes, you're pretty shocked that you're not actually where you're supposed to be. And learning to fly. Mark: You can't Andy: I mean, how do you travel? You've got to learn this stuff. This is why it's called a skill in the movie. Mark: Yeah, but gravity, I assume gravity doesn't have too much impact on the spirit self, so you can just go anywhere. Andy: No, but how brave would you be to stretch your silver cord and how far before it snaps? Mark: ⁓ now that is a very good point. You're right, I forgot all about the old silver chain and ball. Andy: Yeah, you don't want to mess with that shit. Imagine you're just about to dive into the ⁓ Mark: What? Champs-Élysées? What? Andy: the strip club there, the Folie Bouger. Folie Bouger, you're just about to go into the Folie Bouger to see some boobalicious. All of a sudden, your silver cord goes, badoing, and you're fucked. Mark: Folly Beurger. ⁓ can we do, can we check, how long is your silver chain? Andy: Yeah, I'll have those figures for you imminently. Mark: Good. I wanna know. I don't wanna sit on a bloody window ledge looking at old sports sporting goods. Andy: So. So stories like these are repeated in near-death research led by physicians such as Raymond Woody, author of Life After Life. Moody collected hundreds of cases in which patients described observing medical procedures from above, sometimes recounting conversations that occurred while they were clinically unconscious. So if the brain was inactive, who was watching? across the model. Mark: Hang on, that just relates back to what we were talking about last week under operation. You can hear things going on, so you can imagine you saw it. You're just interpreting what you can hear and attaching the visuals. Andy: Yeah. It's one theory, but you can't discount every other theory. Mark: Pretty smart. You can do. Andy: Across modern accounts, one common precursor appears, that's vibration. People describe intense buzzing, roaring, or electrical sensation before they separate from their body. Monroe called this the vibrational state. Yogic texts describe a similar energy rising through the spine known as Kundalini in Hinduism traditions. And the overlap is striking, different cultures but the same sensation. Not all astral accounts are peaceful. Some describe entities that appear aware of the traveller. Shadow figures, watchers, presences at the edge of perception. And in folklore across Europe, towels of the night hag, a dark presence sitting on the chest resemble modern sleep paralysis encounters. Paralysis. Mark: Sleep what? ⁓ sleep paralysis. I've got an answer by the way. This AI stuff is pretty amazing. I ask the question and then it actually comes back with an answer. I mean how obscure is the subject Andy: That's what I saying. Wow. You remind me of my mother when she first went to the library to learn how to use a computer. And she said to me, do you know, I sent your cousin Paula an email in the South of Africa and she got it the same day. Mark: Yeah, but I'm not as old as your mother was then. Anyway, in answer to my own question, it is often described as elastic and capable of stretching to any length needed during astral projection or out of body experience, rather than having a fixed physical dimension. I mean, it's just on my phone, the most obscure subject in the world. And I get a response. Andy: There you go. ⁓ ⁓ hell, I have to warn you that the AI response, the first response to anything you put on is always an AI response and it's 99 % of the time useless. Mark: Well, it seemed to back up what you were saying. Yes, you're right. Andy: I rest my case. Yeah, so the the towers of the night hag that people sort of see while or experience while ⁓ suffering from sleep paralysis, is this neurological or altered states opening perceptions something that we don't normally see? In 1982, a truck driver named Al Sullivan Do you have an issue with this night? Mark: That is the first sensible name you've mentioned all day, Al Sullivan. Andy: I just want to make sure before I get into the meat of his story. Mark: No, he sounds like a good trucker to me. Andy: Okay, well he suffered a heart attack. During surgery, he later reported rising above his body and watching the entire procedure. And he described a specific unusual movement the surgeon made. And it was this, he would flap his arms as if he was flying ⁓ to keep sterile. It was ⁓ a particular Mark: ⁓ Andy: quirk of his. And when questioned, medical staff confirmed that the surgeon does indeed do this. It's a quirky habit, known only within the operating room. Al couldn't have seen it physically, but he described it perfectly. Mark: I think you're mixing up the research with last week. Andy: No, because we did talk about this in conjunction with astral travelling, anesthesia awareness. ⁓ Mark: I must admit the longer the thing goes today, the less likely I think I'm going to get to Paris. Andy: Not today. Mark: I mean so far people have managed to get about two feet outside their body. Andy: Well, neuroscience suggests that out-of-body experiences may originate in the, do you remember this, the temporoparietal junction. We spoke about this last week, which is a region that integrates sensory information. Electrical stimulation of this area has induced sensations of floating or observing oneself. But here's the paradox. Mark: Which is... Andy: Artificial stimulation creates fragments or distortions. Real accounts often include verifiable details. So if it's hallucination, why does it sometimes align with reality? Nearly every mystical tradition offers caution. In Buddhism, practitioners are warned not to become attached to psychic experiences. In Christian mysticism, Spiritual pride is considered dangerous. In occult traditions, travelers are advised to protect themselves before attempting astral journeys. And why do they have these warnings? It's because if consciousness can leave, where does it go and what else resides there? Mark: Why does it have to be replaced with something? Andy: No, I mean, what else resides where your consciousness goes to? Mark: ⁓ I see. You might get into some nasty territory. Andy: You might get surrounded and your astral self could be gang banged. Mark: It's amazing how your brain works, Andy. That's the first thing. You're on your way to Paris on an astral projection journey and all you're worried about is getting gang-banged. Andy: can happen. If you can think it, it can be done. Perhaps the deepest reason astral projection fascinates us is this. If we can leave temporarily, what happens permanently? Many near-death experiences describe the out-of-body state as more real than physical life. Colours are more vivid, awareness is sharper, and emotions are amplified. They speak of a boundary, sometimes a river, sometimes light, beyond which return is impossible. Mark: ⁓ I don't like the sound of that. Not coming back. Andy: So is astral projection a rehearsal for death or is it evidence that death is not an end? Astral projection sits at the intersection of religion, neuroscience, paranormal research and personal testimony, but it refuses to be pinned down. It's neither one thing or the other. It's too spiritual for strict science. It's too experimental for strict religion. And it's too consistent across cultures to dismiss entirely. So perhaps the real question is not whether the soul leaves the body, but the question should be what is the body actually? Is it a container or a receiver? If consciousness is fundamental, not produced by the brain, but filtered by it, then leaving the body might not be that supernatural after all. It might be natural. And if that's true, then we are far more than we appear. So tonight, as you lie in the quiet between waking and sleep, you might notice something. a vibration, a shift. Mark: I mean, and sadly, our minds do work quite similarly. You've the machine on. Andy: I've run out of batteries. Nani, nani, double A's. a subtle sense of expansion. And if you feel as though you're rising, ask yourself, are you imagining it or are you remembering how? Because the mystery never left us. It may be simply waiting for us to rediscover it. Mark: See ya. No, that applause is a bit out of... I thought you were gonna do a doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. No, that's not appropriate either. All right. Andy: That's as close as I can get. So that brings us to the end of our little deep dive into astral projection. Mark: Astral projection? No, I wanted instructions. ⁓ Andy: I mean, that's going to be a 10 episode series because it's a skill that you acquire through meditation. Mark: Have you ever tried meditating? Andy: I have. I have tried it when I was working in liquor slave. Mark: That is not a lick a slave Andy: Lick a slave. One of the best jobs ever. It while I was at school. ⁓ Actually, me mate Kevin, who texted you this week, he started he got a job in liquor slave in Kenish town. Mark: I'm sorry, but that's not a no lick a snare slave. Andy: No, it's actually, it was actually called liquor save. It was an off license. Really cheap. Yeah. We called it, we called it liquor slave because we were, we were 15, you know, we went to school and we spent a couple of hours working at liquor slave after school. And, ⁓ they used to sell things because I mean, in those days at 15, no one blinked an eyelid selling whiskey and vodka and shit and cigarettes. Mark: ⁓ lick a slave, not lick a slave. Andy: It was perfectly legal. Mark: What do mean two 15 year olds? Andy: Well, I mean, we probably weren't supposed to sell it to 15 yards, but we weren't, we shouldn't be allowed to sell it. But we were. But anyway. Mark: ⁓ I see you shouldn't have been working there, you're right, Where was this in Camden Town? They had different rules in Camden Town. Andy: My one was in Queen's Crescent. But my boss, Keith, he was 22. So he was much, much older than me. And he offered me the opportunity. I won't say he made me, but we were talking about astral projection and he'd experimented himself and he took me upstairs. ⁓ Mark: Yeah, he was a grown up. No, I don't want to hear the rest of this story, Andy. This might explain a lot. Andy: No, it was actually, it was quite funny. But he lit a candle and he had me sitting on the floor, cross-legged staring at this candle. And he wanted me to stare at this candle until I could float out of my body and then go outside and make a note of registration numbers of cars parked outside in Queens Crescent. He didn't stay in the room. He went back to work. I'll just goofed off for two hours. Basically, I did try. But at the end of it, I had to go downstairs and say nothing. Mark: I hope your trousers were still on when you went back downstairs. Andy: Funny enough my underpants were back to front. I had no idea. Those candles, they'll make your bum bleed. He was a good old boy, Keith. We'll never forget him. We had great fun working with Mark: Well, he's seven years older than he's probably still around. You need to check him out. He's in his 70s now. Andy: He probably wouldn't remember me. We had a district manager. Mark: Wait, how many boys do think he took into his bedroom and lit a candle and said, on that, and he fricked up loud. Andy: We had the district manager used to come around. used to call him, his name was Mr. Mason, but to us he was Bad Breath Mason because he had the most disgusting foul breath and he would insist on talking right at your face. Mark: halitosis. Andy: But he decided for some reason he was going to set up temporary office in our shop in Queen's Crescent upstairs. And I don't know if his office was being refurbished or whatever, but he sent down word that the upstairs toilet needed cleaning. So send the boy up. And I went, no, I ain't doing it. Mark: And so what? You lost your job? Andy: That was the end of my career at Liquor Slave. know, I've no way I was cleaning the fucking toilet. I was there to steal cigarettes and booze. But fucking, and I'll tell you what, Keith as well, it's a good job I got out when I did. Because he used to go off for the weekend with his mates to camping tricks. But before he'd leave, he'd pull up with his car and load fucking cases of booze and beer and all sorts into the back of his motor. Not a penny went in the till. We robbed that, I'm out. Mark: Is that right? Andy: I'm not going to incriminate myself, but some stock may well have been missing. Mark: I wonder if there's a statute on limitations against shoplifting. Andy: Well, liquor slave doesn't exist anymore. So who's going to prosecute me? Mark: ⁓ doesn't it? Yeah, but their creditors might be listening to this show and think, they still owe me a hundred quid. I'm going to have a word with Andy about that. Andy: 100 quid, would be almost the entire stock. used to sell bottles of sherry for one pint, 99p a bottle. Mark: Is that right? 99p. Andy: Yeah, VP Sherry. It was disgusting, but it was very popular. Mark: Was that the Alcoholics Choice? Andy: Yeah, it was the turpers choice. Yeah, people who drink turpentine. Turpers. Never heard of turpers. It absolutely is a thing. Mark: Terpers was a No, that's not a thing. No, because turpentine, that would make you terribly unwell, isn't that methanol? Andy: Yes, that people used to drink it. Probably still do. You're brown baggers, you sit in the park. Mark: Well you wouldn't live th- Andy: I've drunk anything with alcohol in it. I had a guy, I knew a guy in Moora who actually drank petrol. Mark: The things you come up with. You can't drink bloody petrol. Andy: I'm telling you. Not on the regular. He fucking did. He drank petrol. He was desperate for any kind of, any kind of alcohol. Mark: Well firstly, petrol doesn't have an alcoholic on. Andy: He didn't know that. He's obviously not the smartest bloke because he's drinking petrol. Mark: I tell you what, that you wouldn't survive very long if you actually drank petrol. Yeah, I think if you drank petrol once, you wouldn't survive very long if you did on a regular basis. Andy: What? No, I know for a fact he drank it once. Mark: so desperate for a drink. Andy: Or anything. Anything. You know, if it scrambles the brain, gives him hallucinations, that's great. Mark: In fact, I remember... Do you remember there was a TV series called Shame Less? Andy: Yes, brilliant series. The British and the American one. Mark: And the father was... Well, I was watching the American one for a few episodes and then I sort of lost interest a bit. But the father, the alcoholic fellow, and he had been told by his doctors, if you carry on drinking, you're going to die. Is that what his name, Frank? So he talks his son into giving him an alcohol enema. So he didn't actually drink anything, but he could absorb alcohol. Andy: Yes. Mark: through his arse. Andy: It's genius, really. Mark: I mean, I wonder if people do get that bad. I think they probably do. Andy: They used to do it with cocaine. Mark: You used to do what sniff cocaine up your ass? Andy: you used to chicks to blow it through a straw up your arse. Apparently. Mark: ⁓ my god. I feel, I don't know who I feel more sorry for. The poor girl who's blowing up a straw up someone's arse. What if they fart while she's doing it? ⁓ Andy: Well, that's a bonus, isn't it? She gets a face full of Charlie. tastes like shit but ooooh. Mark: I suppose, I don't know why I'm so shocked because a suppository is better than a pill. Andy: ⁓ yeah, apparently. Mark: Well, no, I mean, not apparently. Supposedly he is more of... Exactly, yeah, yeah. How do we get onto this subject? No, I didn't. Andy: It's a log straight into the bloodstream. yeah, why not? I don't know, you started it. You definitely started it. Anyway, that brings us to the end of this wonderful episode of Strange Stuff Podcast. Quite a short one. Mark: I'm pretty disappointed. was hoping for literally, this is the first step, second step, third step, and then you're off your on your way to Paris. And all I got was some woman who managed to get onto the ledge of a hospital. Andy: Talking of steps to go anywhere, you realize I can't even go home now if I wanted to. Mark: No, you can't as of yesterday, funnily enough. Andy: Yeah, because they've changed the rules that they don't recognise my dual citizenship anymore the way they used to. So unless I have a functioning British passport, they won't let me into my own country. Mark: Bye. Yep. Yep. You're absolutely right. Yes. Andy: Fuck you, Great Britain. Mark: Well, and in fact, for instance, if my grandson wants to go to England, it's a hell of a palaver getting a British passport for your children if they weren't born in England. Andy: And yet, if I arrive on a dinghy from fucking Dover, I will not only get papers, I'll get a hotel and some pocket money and an iPhone 16. So where's the fucking logic in that? Mark: This is the... I was actually listening to, don't think it was Nick Ferrari. I can't remember who it was on LBC and they were interviewing someone. ⁓ I know it was Tom Swarbrick last night and this fellow comes online and he says, so Tom, where did you read this story about these people getting free iPhones? It wasn't, but that sort of thing. He said, it's an article in the Daily Mail and the fellow said, but you can't seriously base a talk, talk. radio program on something that appears in the Daily Mail and Tom Swarbrick was trying to defend the fact that he was borrowing this story from the Daily Mail. It seems to be, I mean it was patently absurd and then it... Andy: That's where all our talk shows come from, the newspapers. But it's not absurd because they do get provided with mobile phones. They absolutely do. Mark: They don't. They don't is like people saying they get free houses and free cars. It's all bollocks. Andy: Well, let's not go down that rabbit hole. Mark: It is... Well, I'm not, I don't think there are too many reform, or maybe there are reform voters who listen to our podcast. God help. Andy: Well, there's a by-lection going on at the moment where reform are neck and neck with the Greens and the Labour Party, apparently. Mark: Yes. Oh yes, it was an article about the Greens. It was an article about the Greens actually, who was talking about giving them houses and jobs. That's right, it was actually. Would you vote Green? You're a bit of a Green man aren't you? You would. You say that, but you would. Andy: No, absolutely not. Look at this damn job on the universe. ⁓ yes, let's all go green, everybody. We'll have to pay more, tax-wise, but think of the children. Fucking wankers. They're the biggest scammers in the lot. We'll go green. We're charged 15 times more for everything, but you're helping to save the planet. Like if the whole of the UK was absolutely carbon free, it wouldn't make even 1 % difference to the pollution worldwide. What is the fucking point? What is the point? Mark: all I can say Andy is you actually introduced the talking about the Green Party by saying that they were neck and neck with reform. So clearly you're not in a majority. Andy: Yes, yes, only because reform, only because reform is feeling the backlash of Trumpism. If Nigel Farage wasn't kissing the ass of Donald Trump quite so deeply, reform would still be way ahead in the polls. But unfortunately, shit sticks. Mark: I No, no, I think the idea for the, what I would call the racist thugs in supporting reform was sort of, you know, it was a bit of an idea for them. But the reality of the people they're putting forward to stand in these constituents, they're all knobheads. Andy: Well, they've basically taken all the rejects from the Conservative Party as well, which is like, that's gone against everything that reform was supposed to stand for. They've basically rebuilt the Conservative Party from within reform. So what's the point? Mark: Yes! And I'm gonna go to sleep. No, the funny thing is that all of the quality people left the Conservative Party when Boris Johnson was around. All of the actual people with integrity, quality politicians, all left with Boris Johnson. So you were left with the dregs. And the dregs of the dregs are the ones that are going to reform party like Robert Jenrick. And that fellow who blew up the economy, Liz Trusses. Liz Truss is, ⁓ Chancellor of the Exchequer. He's gone to reform now as well. They're all losers. Andy: Amazing. Mark: Anyway, I think we should we should run for for Prime Minister Andy. You would you would you. No, you you you would really enjoy it. You could literally get rid of who you like. You could have your own little list, your blacklist targets. Andy: It's amazing. I wouldn't want that job. You couldn't do worse than a starman, that's for sure. I would make Trump look conservative. Anyway, thanks for listening. Don't forget, you can follow us at strange stuff podcast.com. You can hear us on Spotify, YouTube, you can watch us. We're on TikTok. We're on Instagram. We're all over the place at the moment. And you can also join our Patreon at patreon.com slash strange stuff podcast where like our lovely Patreons, you can help us run this show. Mark: Yep. Andy: for price of a beer or a coffee. And in fact, it's probably cheaper than a beer or a coffee by now in England. Mark: And most ex- Well it certainly is for god's sake. And next week we're gonna have to find out what Andy dresses me up in. ⁓ hang on, it's got to be reasonable, I don't want to suddenly appear Week in a Nurse's outfit. Can you do that? Andy: Yes. So my cat is chained. Stop, can you stop typing? He's going nuts over here. Yeah, let's see if I can give you a quick view of my, yeah, here we go. Mark: what the cat is. Of what? Me in an- Andy: He's pushing my ⁓ keyboard across with his back and just causing murders. Mark: God, dear. How you live with that multicolored keyboard? God only knows. ⁓ yeah, well done. And now you're panning out. Andy: Do like that different camera angle? Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing stuff. Mark: Yeah, I hope it was worth the 40,000 kroner that you spent on it. I hope to God you've had your tax rebate soon or you're going to get it soon. Andy: You I mean, you know, I'm starting to feel the hunger pains now. Hopefully I'll get paid soon. But anyway, yeah, thanks for listening, guys. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Join us again next week where we will talk about some equal nonsense and probably... Mark: Got it. Yep. Very good. Yep. This was a nonsense, even though I never got to Paris. Andy: No, I mean, I have to say that I think the quality of our podcast has actually gone up recently and I'm going to have to do something about it. Mark: It couldn't have gone got any worse. That's for sure Andy: Anyway, bye for now. We'll see you same time, same place next week. And don't forget for our Patreons, we'll see you on Wednesday. Have yourself a good one. Bye for now. Mark: Very good. All right. Bye for now. What? Bye for now. Bye for now.