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Transcript

Rewiring Emotions: From Humor to Honesty in Therapy · The Virtual Couch

0:01
Hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm, hm.
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Hahahaha, come on in and take a seat on the virtual
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Hey, everybody.
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Welcome to episode 409.
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Of the virtual couch, happy new year.
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I am your host, Tony Overbay.
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I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and host of the
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waking up the narcism podcast.
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Love ADHD murder on the couch coast of the mind mirror me
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and I have a very fun episode today.
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. We're going to cover all kinds of things, but first.
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Go sign up for the newsletter and the go to Tony overbay.com
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or it will be in the show notes.
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And let me just say that if you tick tock or YouTube or
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Instagram, please go find me.
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My daughter, Sidney and I have been hosting live question
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and answers on Tik TOK.
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And we've done five, I think up to this point we're posting one today
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on my YouTube channel and it is one of the funnest things I think I do at
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night is to be able to spend this last one was almost an hour and a half.
1:08
With my 21 year old daughter said, and answer relationship questions,
1:12
because there are times where I do feel like I can hang when it comes
1:16
to questions, but then I will get a lot of questions from people that are.
1:21
In their twenties.
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And it turns out that they are slightly different than those in their
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thirties, forties, fifties, and above.
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And it's so fun to get her take.
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And then just the interaction.
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On our last live, we had just a hair under 15,000 people stopped
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by with over 400 comments.
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Sit and I are both open about our ADHD.
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It is a super power.
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It is just a fun interaction.
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I just enjoy so much about it.
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So if you go right now to my virtual couch, YouTube channel,
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Hit that subscribe button.
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And then watch that last one.
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I think we really do cover everything and more coming and
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we'll be bringing the lives to YouTube and Instagram soon as well.
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So today, this is a very fun one.
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And as I was preparing and jotting down notes, this episode almost has a vibe
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of what have we learned over the past year and therapy, because I'm going to
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touch on a lot of different things, but the muse for today and actually, okay,
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let me, let me go on a quick tangent.
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I had been, I use the word muse a lot.
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It means a lot to me.
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And I've been asking clients in sessions lately when I will talk about amuse and
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I especially talk about it when it comes to concepts, like differentiation that
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once you realize that everything really is a you thing and a good way that then.
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The more you interact with.
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With people, with things with experiences.
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Then they are your muse.
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The more you go and do the more that you have these experiences
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and you learn more about yourself.
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So again, asking clients.
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Do you, uh, do you know what I mean by amuse?
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And I'm grateful for their honesty because I do use the word
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frequently and I am hearing often.
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Not really, but I'm not really exactly sure what you mean by that.
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So if you just look at a traditionally, amuse is it's a source of inspiration.
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And if you go back to Greek mythology, And the muses were , nine goddesses
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who symbolized the arts and sciences.
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And they were believed to inspire people.
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And they inspire people to create, create content.
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So over time, basically the term muse has come to refer to any anyone
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or anything that provides will the say inspiration for creative work.
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But so in the context that I'm talking about amuse is just something that then
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helps you learn more about yourself.
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It provides inspiration so that you can self confront and grow.
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So when I'm referring today to this article, it acts as my muse.
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Then I'm just saying that this, this article that we're
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going to talk about today.
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Stimulates my thoughts.
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My ideas allows me to provide commentary.
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It's a starting point.
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It's a catalyst for the the topics that we're going to get to today.
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So here we go.
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The article is titled, is everybody.
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So the article is titled, is everyone out here lying to their therapist?
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And it's by a Carolyn Steber and according to Carolyn's bio she's the
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fitness and wellness director at bustle, where she's been on staff since 2015.
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And she says that for covering relationship and dating topics
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for years, she made the switch to exercise trends and workout tips.
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But before we even get to whether or not people are lying to their
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therapist, I think one question that I get often and that I would love to
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address right out of the gate here is.
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Do you think I need therapy?
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I get asked that often I get asked in interviews.
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I talked about it on this live and when I meet people and often when they find out
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what I do for a living, they'll say, well, man, I don't think I need therapy to you.
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And that's somebody that I don't even know, but the answer is in a
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broad setting or in a broad sense.
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Yes.
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And I am acknowledging that I don't even know necessarily who you are.
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And I typically don't try and convince somebody because if you don't want
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to go then that is not something that you need to be forced to do.
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And if you don't want to go, then I think it's also safe to say that you're
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probably not going to be very curious about the process and you almost
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likely be operating from a place of.
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Yeah, buts.
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Just a lot of, well, yeah, but, uh, I've done that or, yeah, but.
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I really do think that's going to work or those kinds of things.
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And in that scenario, it's almost like you're paying money to go,
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try to prove to somebody that, that their profession is not a value.
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And I will say that.
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To the insecure therapist.
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And I think all therapists, I guess I is a lot of therapists that I am aware of.
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There they are pretty insecure at first because you do find yourself.
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It feeling the need to defend your job.
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And also I noticed too that you feel like you really want to
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have an opinion on anything.
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So if somebody comes up to you, when you're a new therapist and
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says, Hey, I got some parenting questions, can you help me?
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Boy?
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I was sure quick to say, yes, I am a therapist and here are
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some things about parenting.
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And now when, if somebody says, Hey, do you have a couple of minutes?
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I've got some questions about your, about parenting.
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Then it is a.
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I don't know who this person is in that regard.
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And so who am I to offer them advice about their parenting?
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I can offer some general parenting advice.
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So hopefully with, with little more maturity and security, then,
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you know, as a therapist that you provide a very beneficial service.
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So if somebody is telling you that they don't need it, Or it doesn't work then I
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think the correct answer is I hear you.
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Thank you.
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But why talk therapy in the first place?
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And I want to start by sharing something that I thought just, it sums
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up a pretty fundamental reason that talk therapy works . So for that, I'm
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going to turn to Andrew Huberman, who is a neuroscientist and a podcaster.
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And if you are not familiar with him, then.
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Time saying lightheartedly, you may have been spending time under a rock
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because his podcast, Huberman labs is consistently one of the most popular
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podcasts around it is pretty incredible.
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Some of them are two, three hours long and he did start in 2021.
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And I started much earlier than that.
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And he is so far surpassed me, but I'm not bitter.
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I'm really not.
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He's an associate professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at
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Stanford university school of medicine.
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So in one of his videos, and this is when I was starting to take a look at EMDR.
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Which a lot of therapists use for trauma.
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And I found a YouTube video of his, that was talking about
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eye movement and how it can.
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Provide grounding or stability and safety.
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And I liked that so much.
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They ended up jotting down the, what he said from the YouTube
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video, and I've got it in a Google doc and I refer to it often.
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So I'm going to summarize that here.
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And that will lead to the why I think talk therapy works in the first place.
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So according to Andrew Huberman, we all know that when we're young,
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our brains are like sponges.
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And so then Huberman says that as we get older, our brains don't
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necessarily adapt as easily.
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Now, this is not saying that the brain is locked in at a certain age.
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Because that's a thought back in the day, but we'll talk about that
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neuroplasticity in a few minutes.
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But as we older, our brains don't necessarily adapt as easily.
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But there is a very cool thing that happens in our brain.
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Thanks to some Nobel prize winning research that when we really
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start to focus on something.
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There's a chemical called acetylcholine.
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And when that kicks in, it's like a spotlight in our brain that makes
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certain connections between neurons stronger and more likely to fire up.
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So he says, think about it.
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When you hear your favorite song.
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And maybe how it just moves you because that is dopamine getting released.
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And he says that, then acetycholine it then makes you zero in on that song.
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And then it's like that song gets hardwired into your, your central
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nervous system into your body.
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And then you start to maybe even feel your body start to react
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whenever you hear that song.
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Because your brain is ultimately in charge of your muscles.
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So when it comes to things, tough things like trauma or negative experiences.
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Now we're talking about using this brains, flexibility that
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to then unlearn those things.
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And then he says most therapies, whether it's EMDR, which is what
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I went to this article to is.
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Which is what I went to this YouTube video to first take a look at, but then
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he says, or traditional talk therapy, or then even things like somatic breathing,
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but they're all about getting you.
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Very alert and focused on these difficult memories.
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But here's the key.
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The trick is the pair that focus with something new and positive.
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So in the old days, and this is where he said, even now in talk therapy, then
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it's really about feeling safe with your therapist while you're dealing
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and talking about these tough memories.
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Because the idea is then to have these two experiences at once.
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Maybe the bad memory or the intense situation.
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And the feeling of safety.
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And that is something that can be provided by the therapist and talk
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therapy, because that combination is what starts to rewire your brain.
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And I really, I believe this works, but it isn't a quick fix.
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It takes time and it can take a lot of therapy sessions, which then
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Andrew Huberman says he realizes not everybody can do because
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they may not have the resources.
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Or even the opportunity depending on their, their situation, but
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it's definitely a path to healing.
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So that is a huge reason why I think talk therapy works in my very humble
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opinion that if somebody shares a childhood trauma, let's say, uh, or
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let's even say that it can be, you shared that your parents didn't buy
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you new school clothes, but they spend a lot of money on their own vices.
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And then let's just say that you share that with a friend you're
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talking about old times or old days, and it's even a good friend.
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And they mean well, but if they respond and say, man, somebody should have said
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something to them, or did you ever try and tell them what it was like for you?
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Again, even if that is a nice person.
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And I absolutely think that people mean well when they're saying things
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like this and heaven forbid the person saying, Hey, that's ridiculous or
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what are the, what are you there?
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Your parents.
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What are you crying about?
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But if anything is said, quite frankly, other than man, what was that?
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Like?
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Tell me more.
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What we then immediately feel is that we are being judged and
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that we did something wrong.
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And so we will over time, stop opening up to people.
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And so then now let's talk about the negativity bias in our brain.
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It is there for a reason, meaning that if you don't open up about things to
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people or you don't, if you're not able to process things with somebody that
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you feel safe with and you can start to.
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Change those neuropathways, again, people who will say, tell me more, what was that?
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Like?
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I can't even imagine.
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Then we will go right back to internalizing those thoughts,
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those emotions, those memories.
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And we'll actually add a little bit to those and even say, Man, I must have been
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wrong as a kid or that I must have maybe made more out of that than it really was.
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Because even as I'm expressing it now as an adult, apparently
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I'm doing it the wrong way.
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But anyway, that negativity bias because negativity, biases it's a really
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fascinating, and it's one of those fundamental concepts in psychology.
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And it refers to our brain's tendency to pay more attention to negative
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experiences than positive ones.
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You know, it's like our brain is a, it's a Velcro for the bad experiences
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and then Teflon for good ones.
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And this bias is deeply rooted in our evolutionary history.
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So why would the brain be wired this way to then go toward the negative?
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Well, it goes back to our early days as humans, because imagine our ancestors
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are living in the wild and for them paying attention to potential threats,
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like a predator lurking nearby.
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That was absolutely crucial for survival.
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So missing a positive experience, maybe like finding a delicious patch of berries.
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And now that might be a bummer, but missing a negative one.
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Like not noticing the saber tooth tiger.
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Could be deadly.
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So our brains evolved to be hyper alert to danger, and then to all the
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negative aspects of our environment.
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And then this negativity bias actually helped our ancestors survive, but in
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our modern world, It's kind of like a double-edged sword and it's why
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we often dwell on negative comments.
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Uh, far more than positive ones or why bad news tends to stick
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with us longer than good news.
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And certainly in today's day and age, we have an abundance of bad news.
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And if we, if let's just say that a airplane crashed.
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CHRO halfway across the world, back in the old days, if you happen to get
12:45
a newspaper or watch the six o'clock news and they don't, if it's a slow
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news day, you might then hear about this thing happening across the world.
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But now you can pull up a social media app to watch a hilarious animal video,
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dog, Vail video, or a little kid swearing, or people breaking into simultaneous
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dance, which those are all fun.
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And then you're met though with, oh, and here's a video about a
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plane crash where everybody died.
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So it makes it pretty easy for us to then focus more on bad news because
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that is, we can see plenty of that.
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And it takes, you have to be pretty intentional too, to not
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just see just bad news, randomly popping up in your newsfeed.
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And then man, now take a look at the wonderful algorithms of today.
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And if you, if you spend more time just looking at it because maybe absolutely.
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Shocks you well, now the algorithm says this person enjoys looking at bad news.
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I must feed them more bad news and more bad news.
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And then the bad news sticks with us longer than good news.
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So it's not necessarily that we're pessimistic by nature.
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It's just our, uh, our doorbell brain doing what it was designed
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to do, which is keeping us safe.
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But that does not mean that we are doomed to be negative because once
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we understand that we have that negative bias in the first place.
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Then that's where we can start to counteract it because when
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we start to train our brains to recognize and really take in and
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saver all the positive experiences.
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And then we, we know now we can balance out this innate tendency
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toward the negative, because it just first, you need to be aware.
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Because it's all about being aware of the bias and then actively working to focus
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on the positive aspects of our lives.
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So let's jump into this article.
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Carolyn says, according to ticktock, she said, I am not alone.
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My tendency to hold back the truth.
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She said a few years ago, I went through a phase where I was
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really into doing standup comedy.
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She said, I'd walk up on the stage at tap the mic at look into the bright lights.
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And I would try to lay in my five minute bit.
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Today Mike comedy sets a reserve for my therapist whom I've come to view.
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As an audience member instead of a healthcare professional.
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She said that my goal when we log into zoom is to be as
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funny and likable as possible.
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And that often means I don't tell her the whole truth about
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what's going on in my life.
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Because why would I want to ruin the vibe of my 45 minute special when
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I could make her laugh with quippy observations and lighthearted commentary?
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She said a, uh, I consider my session a success, not if we had a breakthrough
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or an aha moment, but if we giggled for a good portion of the time and man,
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I know that I have clients like this.
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So let me just jump in here and I will throw out a few different things first up.
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Is, is there a correct way to therapy?
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I certainly do not think so.
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If there is, then that sounds, I think it would be more of a me issue.
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As the therapist, this is how you do therapy.
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No.
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You know, if I'm saying no, no, no you have to open up.
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You have to take this very seriously.
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Don't you see my corduroy jacket with the with the arm patches,
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it's probably an old reference.
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But how about we start with this?
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This is your 50 minutes or 45 minutes, depending on your therapist.
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So where are we going today?
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And if you don't know, by all means, I am absolutely happy to throw a few
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things out there and let's start doing.
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It's funny because I was thinking about this and there are clients who come in.
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Empty their pockets, take their shoes off, sit at the edge of
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the couch and then they just go.
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Others, they sit back and they cross their legs and they look at me and I start.
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And I have this little therapy clock that shows how much time is left and
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it's in red and it, it disappears.
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It winds down.
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Uh, some people like it, some people don't, they let me know and I use it, or
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I don't sometimes when I don't use it, then I'm the one taking my shoes off.
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And when there are five minutes left in the session, then I, I gently put
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my shoes back on kind of like a Mr.
16:13
Rogers back in the old days.
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And then they know we're getting close.
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Some clients wait until the very end.
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And, uh, it's almost like when they finally see that the red
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is almost out on the clock.
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Then they bring it up and I use my hilarious line.
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Oh man.
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Sounds like you buried the lead today.
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Some clients come in and we honest to goodness, we ADHD the heck out of
16:30
a session and it is like listening to a podcast at one and a half.
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Speed.
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Thoughts, questions, everything just firing back and forth.
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Unapologetic.
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And then I've also had some that honestly just share for the entire time.
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Always inserting things like, uh, I do want to hear what you have to say, but
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let me just get a few more things out.
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And I also have clients that say that they want advice, which can be adorable
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because if I go ahead and throw that out there, it's often met with a well,
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yeah, but that wouldn't work for me or some who then say you know, I've already
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had a conversation with you in my head.
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So I kind of just want to see if I'm right.
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I actually had one of those just yesterday and it was fun.
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I have people who use these 50 minutes and purely admit and own that this is the only
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place where they complain or they gossip.
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And in some of the, to me, some of the funniest situations, people
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who come in and they are so on the outside, they appear to just be Zen.
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Mindful maybe incredibly put together a professional pure as the driven
17:24
snow, and then they come in and they just swear like an eighties
17:27
comedian or an old salty sailor.
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So, what I do think is interesting about this article in general is
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that using a session to try out bits, so to speak normal, very normal.
17:38
Using it to then.
17:38
Yeah.
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But the therapist normal using it to just dump.
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Normal using it to complain about being the person who is
17:44
constantly dumped on so normal.
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So then let's talk.
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Though about what humor can do, especially in the setting of therapy.
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Or psychology in general, because I know for a fact that
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my default in my brain is humor.
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I mean, it is constantly on.
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So in psychology, there are these concepts of primary and secondary
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emotions, and those are so important and understanding how we process
18:10
and how we express our feelings.
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So in essence, primary emotions occur in direct response to an external
18:16
event or a circumstance, a situation.
18:20
And then the secondary emotions, they are our reaction to our primary emotions and
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they are typically we dig into that well of self judgment or they're influenced by.
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How we internalize that event, what it says that we think it says about us.
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So I like pointing this out and I went and dug into some of the notes that
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I did, I think on an episode about emotional intelligence, not too long ago.
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Primary and secondary emotions are also connected to this Buddhist concept
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that I enjoy, which is the first dart or the second dart, or it's called
18:51
the first arrow or the second arrow.
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And this is sometimes even easier to remember it this way.
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The first dart is equivalent to your primary emotions.
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It's the initial.
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Unavoidable pain or discomfort that we experience when something happens,
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especially something unpleasant happens.
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So you can think about that.
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First dart is being thrown at you by life.
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It's part of the human condition and it's most often out of our control,
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something happens and we feel so it's like life threw a dart at us.
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So, for example, if somebody loses their job, then the immediate disappointment
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or shock or fear that you feel represents the first dart life threw a dart at you.
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And you react.
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That's your primary emotion?
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The second dart is similar to secondary emotions.
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And now that's the additional suffering that we inflict upon ourselves because
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of our reactions to the first start.
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So it's unlike the first dart we have control or more control once
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we're aware over the second one.
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And this is where our self judgements and our fears.
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And mainly, I mean, a big part of this is our interpretations.
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Of events of what people are going to expect or what.
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We think that somebody is going to think of us.
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And so those interpretations that we have of whatever, the event that just happened
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those definitely intensify our initial pain that we got from the first start.
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So if somebody loses that job, for example, you start blaming yourself, you
20:10
feel worthless, you start sinking into despair because you believe that you
20:13
could have done something to prevent it.
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So those feelings like that would represent a second dart.
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Those are your secondary emotions.
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And when I was talking about building emotional intelligence I
20:21
was pointing out that you really need to recognize the distinction
20:24
between the primary and secondary emotions are the first and second
20:27
arts, because it's about acknowledging that while you can't always control
20:30
the first start, the primary motion.
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You can start to manage the second one, the secondary emotion by being able
20:36
to take a moment, take a breath, take a pause and altering your perspective
20:39
and being able to show up different.
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Change your response.
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And that's the kind of understanding that lets you start to cultivate
20:45
a more intentional, less reactive mindset because people that are
20:49
just reacting to everything in life.
20:51
Are getting hit by that first start, before they know it, the second
20:54
dart, they throw it themselves.
20:55
And all of a sudden they are just, you know, they're reacting to the
20:58
initial pain and then they're going to take it out on somebody else.
21:02
And you really with, with awareness and emotional consistency and those kinds of
21:06
things, then you're going to eventually get to this less reactive mindset.
21:09
And that is going to reduce by a multitude or a magnitude that self-inflicted
21:15
suffering that comes from the second dart, or when you beat yourself up.
21:19
And again, this is from the podcast, I think on emotional intelligence.
21:22
But it is a pretty fun lengthy journey and it takes time and patience and practice.
21:28
And that's why I threw that in here today, because it is absolutely okay.
21:32
And kind of necessary to seek help.
21:35
People like therapists, coaches, they can help you with tools.
21:38
And again, even act as your muse.
21:40
Another example that I think of often with this is where embarrassment can be the
21:44
first start in an anger can be the second.
21:46
So think about being at a meeting at work and you make a
21:49
mistake during a presentation.
21:51
And maybe you misread a graph or you gave the wrong conclusion or
21:55
something happened immediately.
21:56
Then you feel a wave of embarrassment and that just washes over you.
22:00
That first start happens immediately.
22:02
As maybe somebody points out the air.
22:04
Uh, you know, are you sure that that's, the numbers are correct there because
22:07
they do it in front of everybody.
22:08
That embarrassment.
22:09
There it is.
22:09
First start primary motion.
22:11
So then the immediate response to the unpleasant experience of making a
22:14
mistake in public, that is it's okay.
22:17
It's to be expected.
22:17
It just happens.
22:18
That is what happened.
22:19
You reacted.
22:20
So then the second dart.
22:22
So let's go back into your childhood.
22:23
Take a seat on my couch for a minute here.
22:25
As a child, let's say that you had a parent who is overly critical
22:29
and they would continually point out and quite angrily.
22:33
Every little mistake that you made, made you feel small, make you feel
22:36
humiliated, and then when your friends would come over, they would even say,
22:38
oh, don't, uh, don't get Kevin started because he loves breaking things.
22:42
Or, if he'd get him talking he'll for sure.
22:44
Say something wrong.
22:45
Then that childhood wound is taught you to associate mistakes with being criticized
22:49
and feeling diminished and feeling less than, and people are going to think
22:52
less of you, and they're going to leave you and abandon you and your friends.
22:54
Aren't gonna wanna play with you anymore.
22:55
And you get fired from your job.
22:57
So when your colleagues point out your error, it's not just the embarrassment.
23:00
You feel it triggers a childhood wound.
23:02
It stirs up these feelings of anger.
23:04
That is the second dart.
23:06
The anger, isn't just about the mistake you made or your colleagues' comments.
23:09
It is a big old giant defense mechanism.
23:11
That secondary motion.
23:12
Those are so fueled by our past experiences.
23:15
And it's your own subconscious, it's your, you know, when you talk about
23:18
a concept in therapy called internal family systems, it's your parts work?
23:22
It is the protector.
23:23
It is your subconscious desire to protect yourself to protect that,
23:26
that poor childhood exiled emotion from feeling small and humiliated.
23:31
Again.
23:32
Because I am going to lash out at anybody who dares try to get into that.
23:35
That childhood wound had there you do that.
23:38
So recognizing that your anger then as a secondary emotion and it is
23:41
that response to a childhood wound.
23:43
Not really about the immediate situation.
23:45
Cause it's okay.
23:46
As an adult human being to overlook something.
23:48
And to make a mistake.
23:50
So by, by being aware that it can help you start to manage your reactions better.
23:54
You're doing a B, and you gotta put in that time though.
23:56
Mindfulness race baseline.
23:58
Get your sleep.
23:59
Probably eat a little better.
24:00
Stay hydrated.
24:01
Hopefully you're doing something that really matters to you.
24:03
Because all those things come into play and that allows you
24:05
to understand that it is not the criticism itself causing your anger.
24:09
But it's good.
24:10
Old wounds being reopened.
24:12
And that's never a fun time.
24:13
Less it was your knee as a kid.
24:15
And it's a weird scab that seems like he just couldn't start, stop picking it.
24:19
But by acknowledging working on healing, the wounds, then over time.
24:23
Then you find that the first art of embarrassment, it's still you'll feel it.
24:27
It's still going to strike when you might make a mistake or somebody.
24:30
Point something out.
24:31
I mean, there it is.
24:32
Alright.
24:32
I'm noticing that, but the secondary of anger loses its power and that allows
24:36
you to just be more calm and you can really address the first start and the.
24:40
It's like, oh, I own it.
24:41
I made a mistake.
24:42
Yeah, my bad, but I can learn.
24:44
Instead of, if I'm angry, then I get the walkaway as a victim and
24:47
say, man, those guys are jerks.
24:49
And they don't know how hard I work and all those kinds of things.
24:52
Let me throw a marriage example out.
24:53
This was on that podcast as well.
24:55
That episode let's say a husband and a wife are at a social gathering
24:58
during a conversation with friends, the wife playfully brings up an
25:00
incident where the husband made a small, but humorous mistake at home.
25:03
Maybe he mixed up laundry detergent with fabric softener, leading to a
25:07
very sudsy mess, or one that I did in real life was put the What was it?
25:11
I put the dish soap in the dish sheet, washing dishwasher.
25:14
And that does, that creates a lot of bubbles.
25:16
It kind of looks fun, but at the moment, I didn't think it was so fun.
25:19
Then the husband immediately feels a surge of embarrassment.
25:22
It is our first start natural reaction to having an arrow brought
25:25
up in a public setting, even if the story is being shared with humor.
25:28
And even if it really isn't done with malice.
25:31
But then the second dart comes into play as a child.
25:34
Let's say that that husband had a critical parent who had ridiculed
25:36
his mistakes in front of others.
25:38
You can see that the child, the childhood wound is going to say, this
25:40
is literally happening right now.
25:42
So those experiences they created in his childhood, a sense of shame,
25:46
humiliation around making errors.
25:48
And then again, and then a mom would leave the room kind of laughing.
25:51
Or maybe the friends would say.
25:53
Let's go guys.
25:54
And this is your wife.
25:56
So that will make you feel like extreme abandonment is just on the horizon.
26:02
And so then you might have this defensive anger to protect your dignity.
26:06
You know, your, your fragile ego.
26:09
So when then in this scenario of this guy's wife brings up the
26:12
laundry incident in a social setting.
26:13
It's not just the embarrassment of the mistake that impacts him.
26:16
Situation brings back all those good childhood wounds.
26:19
And then there's that unexpected surge of anger, the second dart.
26:22
And it is much more intense than it needs to be.
26:24
It's not a begin.
26:25
It's not about the.
26:27
It's not about that situation.
26:28
It's childhood.
26:30
And then he might react super defensive and snap at his wife or withdraw
26:32
from the gathering, even though his wife really didn't mean harm.
26:36
She had no intention of causing such a reaction.
26:38
And so while we're here, let's talk about humor because I really do feel humor is my
26:43
secondary emotion like nobody's business.
26:45
If there are some uncomfortable first start emotions that are hit
26:48
me, nothing better than a couple of jokes to enlighten the mood and then
26:51
make me a li alleviates my anxiety.
26:54
Even if the jokes don't go over very well.
26:56
I was thinking about an example that, uh, if let's say somebody is recently
27:00
lost a loved one, now the primary emotion that they might experience
27:03
is grief and it is natural and it's an immediate response to loss.
27:07
But in certain situations, then they might use humor as a
27:10
secondary emotion to cope with.
27:11
Or mask the grief.
27:13
Hypothetically, they might be at a Memorial service.
27:15
They might crack jokes or share funny stories about the people that they lost.
27:17
I just was talking to somebody that went to a funeral of a
27:20
loved one and she nailed it.
27:21
She just said that people started.
27:23
Just telling some, some funny stories and it was the perfect example
27:26
of people that are using humor.
27:28
And it's not about getting rid or negating the grief, but it's a way
27:31
to manage maybe the intensity of the primary emotions or how uncomfortable
27:34
people are with those primary emotions.
27:36
And it also helps.
27:38
It's like a social tool to help connect with other people.
27:40
And then we can all have a shared laugh or experience, even
27:43
if you didn't know the person.
27:44
That was a pretty funny story.
27:45
And, uh, and so then it even can help honor the memory of the
27:49
person and, uh, in a good way.
27:51
But in that context, humor acts as more of like a buffer and it helps people
27:55
and other people around you process that primary emotion of grief in a
27:58
way that feels way more manageable.
28:00
Or maybe even it's like social glue or social cohesion and it's a.
28:05
It's just, it shows how complex that human emotions are.
28:08
And so then in one sense, it can really feel like I'm saying, oh, you need
28:11
to not do your secondary emotions.
28:13
It's okay to be very emotional in that moment and deal with the grief.
28:17
But for some it's.
28:18
At that.
28:19
That secondary motion of humor can be a Sal bond.
28:23
It can be a building block and this is where I'm.
28:25
Going with this hot take.
28:27
I want to throw this out there, which is purely my opinion, but I kind of feel.
28:30
That thanks to the neuroplasticity of the brain, which we're about to talk about.
28:33
A lot of these concepts are pulled from the book, the Buddha brain
28:36
about in it's about implicit memory.
28:39
And I quote.
28:40
Much as your body is built from the food you eat, your mind is built
28:43
from the experiences that you have.
28:45
So the flow of experience, gradually sculpts your brain,
28:47
thus shaping your mind.
28:48
So some of the results can be explicitly recalled.
28:51
This is what I did last summer.
28:52
This is how I felt when I was in love.
28:54
But most of the shaping of your mind remains forever unconscious.
28:57
So it's the things that are just happening as you're being in doing.
29:01
And this is called your implicit memory and it includes your expectations, your
29:04
models of relationships, your emotional tendencies, put a little pin in that one.
29:07
What if my emotional tendency is to continue to go to humor.
29:10
I'm aware it's a secondary emotion, but I that's what I do.
29:13
And also your just general overall outlook play into this, but implicit memory
29:17
establishes the what the author, Rick Hanson said, the interior landscape of
29:21
your mind, what it feels like to be, you.
29:23
And that is based on these slowly accumulating residues of lived experience.
29:27
And then he says, but here's the problem.
29:29
Your brain preferentially scans for register stores, recalls and
29:32
reacts to unpleasant experiences.
29:34
And we said this earlier in the episode, it's like Velcro for
29:36
negative and Teflon for positive.
29:38
So consequently, even when positive experiences, far out number,
29:41
negative ones that big old pile of negative implicit memories.
29:44
Partially grows faster.
29:45
And then the background feeling of what it feels like to be, you becomes
29:48
undeservedly glum and even pessimistic.
29:51
And then he says the remedy is not to suppress negative
29:53
experiences when they happen.
29:54
They happen, but it's to foster the positive ones.
29:57
It's that being and doing.
29:58
And in particular, you, you take them in so they can
30:00
become a permanent part of you.
30:02
With that said, I would like to posit that.
30:04
I think my secondary emotion of humor has been so prevalent.
30:07
It is such a part of my life, such a part of the interior landscape of my mind.
30:11
So much of a part of what it feels like to be me, that I would tend to argue that it
30:15
is changed places and is now darn near my primary emotion or my immediate reaction.
30:20
So when something happens, it is immediately humorous and from a place of.
30:25
Man, that that just happened.
30:26
That's kind of funny.
30:27
And then over time than what it feels like to be me.
30:29
Pretty fun.
30:30
Uh, hopefully it's pretty good.
30:31
Hang.
30:31
So back to the article Carolyn says, , I also found out that I'm not alone with
30:35
my silly little approach to therapy.
30:36
Again, she's using it as a standup.
30:38
A place to try out bits.
30:39
She sat on Tik TOK.
30:40
The topic of lying to your therapist is over 600 million views.
30:44
And there are countless stories, just like my own.
30:46
So, whether you tell a white lie, a whole lie, or simply gloss
30:48
over your bad day with a laugh.
30:50
It seems fairly common to hold back.
30:53
she said that in a perfect world, you'd peel open, like an onion.
30:56
The moment your therapist asked you how you're feeling, but according to Tik
30:59
TOK, which is a very large social media platform with a billion, billions of
31:04
millions, hundreds of millions of users.
31:06
And that scenario.
31:08
It is so common to smile and say that you feel great, even when you don't.
31:13
, then she quotes some people, a creator, Mackenzie Smith admitted
31:15
that she replies to her therapist question in a way that she hopes
31:17
will paint her in the best light.
31:19
So instead of being honest, She gives the right answer, despite knowing that
31:23
that is not actually the whole truth.
31:25
She quits another person who said her therapist thinks she's thriving and
31:28
doing great, but it's only because she's telling cheeky little ice
31:32
and reality, your therapist doesn't know what's going on in her life.
31:34
It breaks my heart as the therapist.
31:36
She said a peek at the comment section revealed.
31:38
I think this is too.
31:39
One of the Tik TOK videos that a lot of people do the same thing.
31:42
One person agreed by saying, I don't want my therapist to
31:44
judge me while another road.
31:46
I'm a people pleaser.
31:46
I want them to feel like they're doing well at their job.
31:48
Which man, I it's so wild because I, there are people
31:52
where I have felt that with and.
31:54
One of the funniest things is when somebody comes in and says
31:56
to me, Hey, how are you doing?
31:58
And I say.
31:58
I you, you that I'm fine.
32:00
That is that we're here to talk about you.
32:02
But it makes so much sense because I think we all still desperately
32:06
want validation until we don't.
32:08
We want to be told that we are okay until we get to the point
32:10
where we have to realize and eventually believe that we are okay.
32:15
That we may ask for somebody's opinion, but it is simply that it's their opinion.
32:19
I, I know I'm okay.
32:20
But boy, that is a process.
32:22
And if you aren't working on that process, Then you're kicking the can down the road.
32:27
Yeah, I'll be happy when I'll be happy.
32:28
When I get married, I'll be happy when I have kids.
32:30
When I have a better job, when I have a better car.
32:32
When I have a six pack, abs when the kids are in school.
32:36
Um, when a pay off that bill when we're empty nesters or when we get through this
32:40
trial or this ordeal, and the truth is.
32:43
The truth is I feel like I'm now building up to something huge.
32:47
That if you're not doing, I believe some sort of self confrontation, some self work
32:52
talking to somebody that isn't just your own brain about things, not just looking
32:57
for self-help purely through social media.
32:59
At podcast and yeah, this is the podcast.
33:02
But as is the case with even all my podcast, this is all
33:05
from a, Hey, check this out.
33:06
This is where I'm at.
33:07
These are legitimate tools and you deserve to be happy and to
33:10
grow and to love and to be loved.
33:12
So maybe this will propel you to go see a therapist because I really believe
33:16
therapist works because I'm, I'm a.
33:19
I'm a therapist.
33:19
And I watched people make big changes every day, all the time.
33:23
It does take time and it takes a lot of consistency and the right tools.
33:27
So go get them because you deserve it.
33:29
But back to the point.
33:31
So we all seek validation and sometimes I joke that I am the
33:33
world's greatest paid friend.
33:34
But I'm also not simply telling you what you want to hear for your money.
33:38
And, uh, it's probably one of the number one complaints I hear from people
33:41
who eventually come to a therapist in spite of their spouse who doesn't
33:45
want to go because he or she already has the therapist who they don't know.
33:50
And again, they aren't in therapy.
33:52
But they figured out the, no, I know what that therapist is all about.
33:55
All that there's telling what you want to hear.
33:56
Cause I just want your money.
33:57
I'm sure.
33:58
I appreciate people's money.
34:00
It's out therapists make their living, but for some reason, some other
34:03
professions don't quite get the same vibe.
34:06
Sure your leg is broken, but why go to the doctor?
34:08
He just wants your money.
34:09
Let me get on Tik TOK.
34:10
Maybe I can find a video of somebody who talks about how to heal a broken leg.
34:14
Over a backdrop of a motivational song.
34:16
And then there might even be a acute animal in the background.
34:19
So admittedly, this is a lot of what is going through my brain.
34:22
If I hear somebody say, I don't think a therapy would work for me or I've never
34:26
been, but I'm pretty sure it's not for me.
34:28
And this leads me to another topic.
34:31
And honestly, I'm very open about my thoughts on coaching, because I have
34:34
had coaches life coaches on my podcast, and I make the joke often that I
34:38
never got the memo early on in therapy that I was not supposed to like life
34:41
coaches or I, that I was supposed to.
34:43
Think, well there, they aren't really helping because they aren't therapists.
34:46
And I know that I I've heard often life coaches that say therapist . , all
34:49
they care about is the past.
34:50
I'm about the now.
34:52
And can't, we all get along.
34:53
We can find the some common ground.
34:56
Because I seem to be getting asked more and more about coaching as there are
35:00
coaches who are in the news because of their unethical parenting practices
35:03
or harmful ways of trying to help people overcome things like turning to.
35:06
Pornography as a coping mechanism using shame or an incredibly
35:09
prescriptive method to helping that.
35:11
If you aren't doing it this exact way, then you must not care enough.
35:14
You're not doing it right.
35:16
I have a coaching certification myself.
35:17
I am a certified mindful habit coach, and I believe there are times where somebody
35:21
really is looking for a jumping off point.
35:23
It may be a north star to navigate toward.
35:25
A, this is what you need to do, but that is what the coach believes
35:29
people need to do in order to succeed.
35:30
I have worked with thousands of people and it turns out that each
35:33
and every single person is different.
35:35
I was recently talking with a friend of mine.
35:37
His name is Abner.
35:37
He's studying the effects of trauma and childhood getting his doctorate
35:42
and how trauma manifests in our genes, looking at epigenetics.
35:45
I'm actually got some of his research that I'm going to use in an upcoming
35:48
waking up the narcissism podcast.
35:50
But he shared with me that we have something and I double check this with
35:53
him because I thought this is wild.
35:55
We have something like 37 trillion cells in our bodies and each cell
35:59
has approximately 20,000 genes.
36:01
And basically each gene has an on, off switch that can change fluidly based
36:05
on environmental and other conditions.
36:07
So I find myself continually going back to the no one really does know
36:12
what it feels like truly to be.
36:14
You.
36:14
Or to be me.
36:16
And I don't exactly know how you feel.
36:18
Sometimes I think that we aren't really sure how we feel.
36:22
That's part of what we're trying to figure out, which is why I like
36:25
this idea of listen to the podcast.
36:28
Read the books.
36:29
Watch the reels go to therapy, talk to a coach.
36:32
Because this is your individualized customized treatment plan.
36:35
It turns out that we're all trying to find the things that work for us, but
36:38
just continue to be doing, even if you had to go work out some comedy bits with
36:42
your therapist, that's, that's doing.
36:44
And then let's even talk about then once you do feel heard or understood.
36:49
Even then technically do you completely.
36:52
Or is it more of it?
36:53
This just, it feels better.
36:55
To not be argued with or to not be judged and told you're wrong.
36:59
Because when that happens, you are wasting time and emotional calories.
37:03
Ruminating worrying about what this person thinks of you and then defending
37:07
somebody else's view of you that isn't even real because it's their view
37:10
of you, but it sure can feel real.
37:13
Because do I even know myself?
37:17
Well, then I better go to therapy, but I don't want my therapist to
37:19
think that I'm a wreck because they see people all day and every day and
37:22
I want to be one of their favorites.
37:23
So I'll be really confident when I go in there or I'll
37:25
tell some really funny jokes.
37:27
Okay.
37:27
But before we get back to the article, then if we really are 37 trillion
37:31
cells with 20,000 genes and the things that we do that we think that we feel.
37:35
Uh, Cain, apparently, maybe even the things that we eat, but we will maybe
37:38
talk about that on a future episode.
37:39
But if they matter, not in a, you have to do everything right now or you
37:43
ruined it and by it, I mean life and your, uh, health and relationships.
37:47
I know because let's talk about that.
37:50
Adorable pink squishy brain.
37:52
It can change.
37:53
Boy.
37:53
Can it change?
37:54
So , let's talk about neuroplasticity.
37:57
And I'm going to use a section from a book that I jokingly on my new podcast,
38:00
love ADHD with my co-host Julie Lee that I refer to as one of my standard
38:04
works of scripture, the book ADHD, 2.0 by the authors, Hallowell and retai.
38:09
And they lay out this concept so well, because what they say when talking about
38:12
neuroplasticity is that it is one of the coolest things in the last 30 years.
38:16
And that the leaps that we've made in understanding the brain.
38:19
Because for ages, we tried to explain mental struggles with ideas about
38:22
willpower or maybe religion or philosophy.
38:25
But now we are in an era where we can actually see
38:28
what's happening in the brain.
38:30
And its nervous system.
38:31
Because we've got the tools to measure all kinds of things now in the brain,
38:35
like the various chemicals or electrical activity, uh, blood flow, which has
38:39
been pretty amazing and how the brain uses energy and oxygen, and even
38:43
the size of different brain parts.
38:46
And we're starting to link all these to how the brain works.
38:48
And we're also getting a handle on genetics and epigenetics, which is how
38:51
your environment then affects your genes.
38:54
So then according to this book, take depression.
38:56
For example, you might have the genes that could lead to depression, but if
38:58
you grew up with loving parents and if you are in a supportive environment,
39:01
then those genes might not ever kick in.
39:03
But if you had a tough childhood with trauma or neglect, then those same
39:06
genes are more likely to show up.
39:08
Because it's always this mix of nature and nurture.
39:11
Good environments.
39:12
Can lessen the impact of bad genes, but in bad environments can do the opposite.
39:17
But then here's the really exciting part.
39:19
Neuroplasticity, because this is a game changer in neuroscience, because
39:22
it used to be thought that by 25 or 30 or whatever it was that your
39:25
brain was pretty much set in stone.
39:27
I mean, some people used to say by five or 12 or, but that just isn't true.
39:31
All those sayings about not being able to teach an old dog new tricks they just
39:35
aren't accurate because your brain is constantly changing in response to your
39:38
experiences and who you love and where you live and what you eat and how much
39:41
you exercise and your stress levels.
39:43
If you have a pet, if you laugh a lot.
39:46
And that is fantastic news because it means that we can change who
39:49
we are and where we're headed.
39:50
No matter.
39:51
Our age , I'll go back to, it's not easy, but it is possible and you're
39:55
never too old for a new start.
39:57
Or a new love or a better day because our brains give us
39:59
this chance every single day.
40:01
Let's go back to the article.
40:02
We'll finish up here.
40:03
She quotes.
40:04
A licensed clinical social worker named Carrie torn.
40:06
And she's out of North Carolina.
40:08
She said there are multiple reasons why people might lie to their therapist.
40:10
One is that once we say something out loud, it can feel more real and true.
40:13
In that case, it's easier to keep things light, so you don't
40:16
have to face tough topics.
40:17
And then that's.
40:19
Why I talked earlier on about it, it can also be very therapeutic.
40:23
And helpful.
40:23
To be able to express things that are tough to somebody that is saying,
40:26
tell me more when it feels safe.
40:28
But she's absolutely right.
40:29
That that's one of the reasons why she said it's also common to
40:31
admit certain facts until you get comfortable with your therapist.
40:34
Absolutely.
40:35
Carrie Torin says it can take a while to test the waters and
40:37
make sure you're in a safe space.
40:39
Before you talk about your past and reveal dark secrets, and the
40:41
therapist feels that you really do.
40:43
And then she did say people pleasing is a huge factor.
40:45
According to torn, you might feel some internal pressure to assure
40:49
your therapist that you're doing.
40:50
Okay.
40:51
And then that often involves sticking to a small.
40:53
I just little bit smalltalk.
40:55
So instead of sharing how you truly feel, you might reply by saying that,
40:58
you know, The things, but, but overall things are good or just kind of busy.
41:02
She said, if you're like me, you may also try to make your therapist laugh
41:04
rather than reveal what's on your mind.
41:05
Humor is a great coping mechanism.
41:07
And a way to deflect from deeper feelings that might be uncomfortable.
41:10
She says, so then the article ends by saying how to get real, that it
41:14
is fine to turn to some of these tactics on occasion, but if you catch
41:17
yourself performing standup week after week, torn, recommends asking your
41:20
therapist to hold you accountable.
41:22
And this is where I want to tell you.
41:24
You, your therapist does know.
41:26
I love this concept where whatever it is that you do.
41:30
If you do it well and you enjoy it, you've been doing it for a long time.
41:33
You do see patterns.
41:34
I've loved when I can talk to somebody that does Oh, what's the interrogations.
41:38
Cause I've had multiple clients throughout the years that are in law
41:41
enforcement or some branch of the government where they do interrogations.
41:45
And they already have information.
41:47
So they are getting you to talk about the story or whatever the events are.
41:51
And they already know that people don't normally have.
41:55
Where they were . Seven months ago on a Tuesday night down when then seven
41:59
months ago on the Wednesday night.
42:00
They're not really sure.
42:01
No they've rehearsed the alibi or when three people
42:03
all have the exact same story.
42:05
It really doesn't work that way in the world.
42:07
So there, there are those things.
42:08
So a therapist.
42:09
You maybe give him a little bit of credit that they do recognize
42:12
when there's inconsistencies.
42:14
Or your app that your story doesn't match your face.
42:17
But if you ask to be held accountable or one of my favorite things that I
42:20
have, some of my clients say is, Hey, obviously I don't know what I don't know.
42:24
So.
42:25
Helped me find those things that I don't know that I don't even know.
42:28
And I think that's a form of accountability.
42:30
So then they can encourage you that there was gonna encourage you to open up.
42:32
They can make you libel.
42:33
When you start to give one word answers.
42:35
And it is perfectly acceptable to say that you aren't quite ready
42:38
to talk about a certain topic.
42:40
, remember that the goals you have in therapy or your goals, it says torn.
42:42
You can be honest with your therapist about the things that you don't want or
42:45
that you aren't ready to work on just yet.
42:46
And that is fine.
42:48
A good therapist will help you get there in your own time.
42:50
It isn't just this prescriptive.
42:52
Way to do it, uh, one way to do it thing.
42:55
It could also help to say out loud, whenever you feel the urge to lie.
42:57
And I love that when somebody is like, Okay.
43:00
I am already heading down a path of a little white lie.
43:02
Therapy needs to be the safest place.
43:03
It really does.
43:04
So then she says, after naming it, your therapist will be able to help you
43:06
go deeper and explore the impulse and help you break that habit altogether.
43:10
, there's another one that I really enjoy.
43:12
And that is if I am talking or sharing something and the client, all of a
43:16
sudden is no longer paying attention.
43:18
And I love that being the safest place where I want to encourage the
43:22
client to say, I totally lost you because if I get offended that as a me
43:26
thing, and how often are we in normal human interaction and conversations
43:30
where we, we aren't paying attention.
43:32
We notice that we're not paying attention.
43:34
So that's something that you can work on.
43:35
There are so many ways that you can learn about yourself.
43:38
If you have another person that you can interact with, that is seriously
43:42
not going to judge you and tell you yeah, you are doing this horrible.
43:46
So I think maybe what, what did we learn today?
43:48
The best thing you can do is to try and be open and I get it before you do that,
43:53
you do have to feel fairly comfortable with your therapist, or if you're working
43:56
with a coach, because it is ultimately HQ.
43:59
At you thing, but it's not only okay, but it's really normal and my very
44:03
humble and professional opinion.
44:04
And necessary to interact with another human.
44:08
And how about one that studies human behavior and works with human behavior
44:11
and psychology on a daily basis.
44:13
But preferably one that you vibe with that you feel safe with, and yeah, that's
44:17
probably going to take a little bit of time, but at some point, if you don't
44:19
feel comfortable, then check that out.
44:22
You have learned that I am not comfortable with this type of person,
44:24
something that you can do a little self confrontations that with you may
44:28
not like the high energy therapist.
44:30
I have literally been told by people who have not worked with me, that
44:33
they aren't sure if they would.
44:34
Like my energy and that is okay, and it's no problem.
44:37
And I will say in my former more emotionally immature days, probably
44:41
more and more people pleasing days, I probably would have spent a little
44:44
time trying to convince that person that they really would like me.
44:46
I promise.
44:47
But at this point I am just grateful that you are aware of that, of
44:50
whatever that preference is.
44:52
And then it sounds like you're on the path of finding somebody
44:54
that you may fit better with.
44:55
I really feel strongly about this just like life is not a I'm at point a.
45:00
And I need to know exactly what point Z is and exactly how to get there.
45:04
Please give me some certainty.
45:06
That really is more about from a to B and B to C and C to D because Man,
45:11
we want that certainty, but that a to Z and nothing is quite that way.
45:15
Anything your career, your marriage, your parenting, especially not finding help.
45:19
If we are experiencing life, we are going to be growing and learning.
45:22
And sometimes certain people and certain places and certain foods and relationships
45:26
and jobs will serve us so incredibly well.
45:29
Until , they might not continue to do so.
45:33
And then what a joy to work out that new uncertainty muscle find a new
45:37
therapist, go to a new restaurant.
45:39
Have different conversations with your spouse and embrace a parenting model
45:42
that you haven't looked at before.
45:44
Watch a different show, go to a different store, go to a different restaurant,
45:48
drive home in a different way, because you really won't know until you do.
45:52
Now go and do and do and be, and I feel like now I need to keep
45:56
the pattern parade going with B.
45:58
And be, well.
46:00
Uh, okay.
46:01
Be well.
46:01
Oh, be well be well, there we go be well now.
46:05
Taking us out per usual, the wonderful, the talented.
46:08
Uh, roar Florence with her song.
46:09
It's wonderful.
46:10
Have a.
46:10
Have an amazing week and we'll see you next time on the virtual catch.