Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E224: Dating Panel Unfiltered: Gen-Z & Millennials Expose Truth About Modern Love | Lila Rose Show

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E224: Dating Panel Unfiltered: Gen-Z & Millennials Expose Truth About Modern Love | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  But I'm going to be honest because we're being honest here.
• 0:02
  Women do not on men, men on women.
• 0:08
  So what's the What are the biggest problems with dating?
• 0:09
  Right now as you see it. We have a major cultural
• 0:12
  problem, I think, where we. Just what you put out online is
• 0:15
  what you're trying to get eyes to look.
• 0:17
  At I think paradox of choice is major.
• 0:21
  It's major. How far do you think is too far
• 0:23
  for Christians? What professions turn women off?
• 0:26
  I'm curious. I'm not going to sit here and
• 0:28
  lie. They want, they do they.
• 0:31
  Do so you're maybe looking for something super intense when you
• 0:34
  meet your future spouse. Like oh it needs to be like the
• 0:36
  lightning just flashed, but it's not.
• 0:38
  It's something soft and quiet. In today's episode of the Lila
• 0:42
  Roe Show, we sit down with the panel, A professional panel, to
• 0:44
  discuss the problems and the opportunities that Gen.
• 0:48
  Z and millennials face when it comes to dating and
• 0:51
  relationships. The conversation got a little
• 0:53
  spicy. We discussed whether or not
• 0:55
  cuddling was a crutch in relationships.
• 0:57
  Was it sinful? We talked about why secular
• 0:59
  dating is inferior to Christian dating.
• 1:02
  Yes, there are some strong opinions there.
• 1:04
  What men are looking for in dating versus women.
• 1:07
  How Gen. Z ers have different struggles
• 1:09
  than us older millennials. And so much in this
• 1:11
  conversation, I have the pleasure to sit down with
• 1:14
  Alessandro Conti, who is a professional matchmaker in
• 1:17
  Beverly Hills and absolutely lovely, as well as Ryan Buffet
• 1:20
  who's a professional bachelor and the host of The Exorcist
• 1:23
  Files as well as Franco Aurelio of Franco TV.
• 1:26
  And we have a lot of fun and sometimes, you know,
• 1:29
  controversial takes in this episode today.
• 1:32
  I hope you find it encouraging. And if you're listening to this
• 1:34
  and you're single, great or you're dating great.
• 1:37
  But if you're one of those married people or you're a
• 1:38
  celibate and you're not going to be married beautiful.
• 1:41
  But please share this episode with a friend to share the love
• 1:44
  and to share the encouragement. All right, thank you guys so
• 1:46
  much for coming. I'm such fans of all of you.
• 1:48
  Oh. Thank you.
• 1:50
  We're fans, too. We're fans of us too.
• 1:53
  You're all big hits already. You've all been on the show
• 1:55
  before, so people listening know you guys, but let's start with
• 1:59
  just your name. You're a relationship status,
• 2:01
  whatever you're comfortable sharing, and then just a little
• 2:04
  bit about you, 30 seconds background.
• 2:06
  So, Ryan, do you want to kick us off?
• 2:08
  My name is Ryan Bethey. I am currently unmarried, AKA
• 2:13
  single, and it's exciting to be here.
• 2:16
  I work in media entertainment. I do host a popular show on
• 2:19
  exorcism, which I don't know if that makes me uniquely qualified
• 2:22
  to talk about dating, but we'll find out.
• 2:26
  And no, but I'm really I'm very passionate about people stepping
• 2:29
  into the fullness of everything God has for them, wherever that
• 2:32
  is, and celebrating both seasons of life.
• 2:35
  Because I know people in both stations, both single and
• 2:37
  married, and it is totally possible to have an amazing
• 2:41
  fulfilling God journey on either side of that.
• 2:43
  And so I'm just excited to talk about it cuz it's a big, you
• 2:46
  mentioned a good thing in your intro, Lila.
• 2:47
  It's dating relationships, that's all part of human
• 2:50
  flourishing. And we should want whatever God
• 2:53
  has for us, wherever that leads. And so I'm just excited to dig
• 2:57
  into that. But plenty of stories from the
• 2:58
  front. Happy to report back on what's
• 3:01
  going on out there. It's a little Cray Cray.
• 3:03
  The trenches. Yeah, very.
• 3:06
  I'm out. I'm out there in the trenches,
• 3:07
  you know, doing, doing the Lord's work.
• 3:09
  So you know. Yeah, my name is Franco.
• 3:12
  And do we do our what our titles are?
• 3:15
  Yeah, go titles if you needed a. Title.
• 3:16
  I thought we just did the litany of humility.
• 3:18
  Fair enough. That was before.
• 3:20
  We did. We did Cray litany.
• 3:21
  Look at that just. Keeping you honest.
• 3:23
  Bro keeping opportunities for being humbled.
• 3:25
  I'm loving this. He's here to keep you a we'll.
• 3:27
  Crop your lower third year title, OK, so.
• 3:31
  Okay, so I am I want to show kind of people you said I am not
• 3:35
  married so AKA single before the eyes of God.
• 3:38
  I am currently not. Wait a minute.
• 3:40
  Sorry I have to say that. So when you guys said that, are
• 3:42
  there girlfriends in the picture?
• 3:43
  But you're AKA single and before the eyes of God 'cause you're
• 3:46
  not married or you're just saying you're not wanting to
• 3:48
  share and that's OK if you don't share.
• 3:50
  Right, so I don't have a girlfriend, but I am also not
• 3:55
  looking to date right now and for several reasons that we
• 3:58
  might actually get into just general things, just stuff that
• 4:02
  I figured found out like about myself.
• 4:03
  And actually this gets into the thing of like when, when should
• 4:06
  you not be looking for, for a date or whatever?
• 4:10
  And just like, and stuff that might not because like there
• 4:12
  could be a lot of stuff that's clear, like for example, like if
• 4:14
  you're watching, well, actually even maybe for some reasons,
• 4:16
  it's not clear. But I think for like a lot of
• 4:18
  the Catholic community, it's pretty clear.
• 4:19
  Like if you're watching pornography, if you're addicted
• 4:21
  to it, you should not be dating, right?
• 4:22
  But there might be other things, some of the flaws that you might
• 4:25
  have that might also qualify as like, maybe you should not be
• 4:29
  dating. That's some of the things that
• 4:30
  I'm, I was like, oh, like maybe these things.
• 4:32
  Like I think that I want to get these things figured out first
• 4:35
  before I start like looking for someone.
• 4:38
  And so I, I, and I think that there's like, I mean, we can, we
• 4:41
  can get all, we can chop it up, all that.
• 4:43
  But yeah, that's my status right now.
• 4:45
  We'll have an opportunity to lay all of our flaws on the table.
• 4:48
  I'm just. Saying you're.
• 4:50
  Finally held company not looking to be acquired anytime.
• 4:53
  Soon. Yes, I love those terms.
• 4:55
  Focusing on growth stage. Focusing on growth stage, yes.
• 4:58
  And go what and what's your work?
• 5:00
  I know it, but we know it the show right now at.
• 5:04
  Our end, well, I try to be modest about it actually, but I
• 5:07
  do well. I do a lot of video editing but
• 5:09
  I would say I'm a professional yapper and Catholic E boy love.
• 5:12
  It awesome. Lovely Alessandra.
• 5:16
  Yes, yes, and excuse my voice, I'm coming off of a laryngitis
• 5:22
  Fiesta, but I am Alessandro Conti.
• 5:26
  I am actually not single, but I am in a beautiful relationship
• 5:31
  with an amazing man. However, I am a professional
• 5:34
  matchmaker and I have been on the front lines of dating myself
• 5:40
  and I know, I know the wild Wild West especially.
• 5:45
  I live in LA, so I very viscerally understand from both
• 5:51
  a Christian and Catholic perspective and also from a
• 5:54
  secular perspective because we do work with a lot of men and
• 5:57
  women that are Christian, but we also work with a lot of non
• 6:01
  Christian men and women that are millennial, Gen.
• 6:04
  Z, all of that. But yeah, I'm so excited to deep
• 6:09
  dive into this topic. Yeah.
• 6:11
  Amazing. And I think your perspective to
• 6:14
  being a matchmaker is super interesting because you work
• 6:16
  with Gen. Z, Millennial and other really
• 6:18
  clients of all ages. Yeah, all that's going to be all
• 6:21
  ages. Some look like they're Gen.
• 6:23
  Z, but they're actually boomers, you know, go go figure.
• 6:27
  I'm in Beverly Hills, so. Oh wow.
• 6:30
  Amazing what they can do. I will when the time comes.
• 6:39
  All right, well, very excited to dive in.
• 6:41
  Everybody knows I'm married, so that's my relationship status,
• 6:44
  as I said earlier. But again, the dating world I
• 6:47
  hear. I was literally talking to a
• 6:48
  girl this morning. I think she was probably 2324
• 6:51
  and she was talking about dating and how it's just, you know, the
• 6:55
  guy wanted to see her. But then he was saying he wasn't
• 6:58
  ready for a relationship. But then they're like each
• 7:00
  other. But she doesn't want a situation
• 7:02
  ship, but she thinks maybe he'll change his mind.
• 7:03
  I mean, it just, it's rough out there basically for I think
• 7:07
  people of all ages right now who are feeling the sense of wanting
• 7:10
  to maybe be married or, or, or date or meet, meet that special
• 7:14
  someone. So let's start with the
• 7:16
  problems. What are the biggest problems
• 7:20
  that you all see in the dating world?
• 7:23
  And feel free to speak from personal experience.
• 7:24
  Although Ryan, I also know you have tons of friends that you
• 7:28
  support and mentor and give advice to.
• 7:31
  You also set people up yourself. You're not a professional
• 7:32
  matchmaker, but you're a Malay. You're an unprofessional
• 7:35
  matchmaker. Maybe one day we can acquire.
• 7:39
  Ryan. You can ambassador or something.
• 7:41
  Ambassador Program. But you're an eligible bachelor,
• 7:45
  so you have your experiences. So let's let maybe kick us off
• 7:48
  with that, Ryan, so. What's the What are the biggest
• 7:50
  problems of dating right? Now as you see it.
• 7:52
  Yeah. So I think the, there's a couple
• 7:54
  things. One, we have a major cultural
• 7:57
  problem, I think where we just human connection is declining.
• 8:01
  And a lot of that is screen time.
• 8:03
  It's the self absorption that comes from just the on demand
• 8:07
  consumeristic mentality that and again, we're all, I mean, it's,
• 8:10
  it's a wonderful blessing that we can have stuffed DoorDash, we
• 8:13
  can have Instacart, but we're on our phones so much.
• 8:16
  Also, I think people are meeting each other less in person and
• 8:19
  we're just not as connected as much anymore.
• 8:21
  I mean, I personally have found I've been at dinner with dear
• 8:23
  friends, friends and felt that kind of voice in the back.
• 8:26
  I'd be like, hey, don't you wanna go check your phone?
• 8:27
  I'm like, quiet. You just know you're so we are
• 8:30
  so attached to our devices right now.
• 8:32
  And I do think that's having a huge issue.
• 8:34
  From my own personal experience, I have found it very interesting
• 8:37
  to see how awkward sometimes some interaction is becoming
• 8:40
  without phones. When you think about it, when we
• 8:42
  were teenagers, think of awkward worst teenagers to begin with.
• 8:44
  Now you throw in like smartphone addiction and it's like, is
• 8:47
  there any hope, you know? And so I think one, we're just
• 8:50
  not connecting as much with people and that is limiting the
• 8:53
  option. So the at bats are limited.
• 8:56
  And then when we do, and again, I know many people have met
• 8:58
  online on on apps, several of my best friends, right?
• 9:01
  And they're incredible marriages.
• 9:03
  So it's awesome. It's actually, I think we're a
• 9:04
  majority of people meet now, but I also know that when we have
• 9:08
  apps that basically give us on demand anything we want at
• 9:11
  anytime, I have personally found it like just I don't like it.
• 9:15
  I don't like the idea of swiping.
• 9:17
  I know we do this as people. We definitely, we make, we do
• 9:19
  passing judgments, we do glances, you know, we
• 9:22
  immediately appraise that's human psyche, right to assess
• 9:24
  things. But I just it's fine.
• 9:26
  I've had conversations with friends of mine like, oh, they
• 9:28
  have to be this, they have to be this.
• 9:29
  They have to be like, well, sort of like a runway model, but also
• 9:31
  an astronaut and not ripped, not too ripped, you know, and tall,
• 9:34
  but not too tall. And we just have these wild
• 9:37
  expectations. And to quote my good friend John
• 9:41
  Picluto, JP, you know, he talks about we have such a consumer
• 9:44
  driven culture right now that we're just focused on what is in
• 9:47
  it for me, where can I get the perfect match?
• 9:49
  And as we all know, right, even happily married, there is no
• 9:53
  perfect match, right? And so.
• 9:55
  Hey my. God, I don't understand you
• 9:59
  guys. Become more.
• 10:00
  I know I'm. Just, but it's just so that's
• 10:03
  I'm. Not going to pretend it's
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• 11:11
  That's what is the biggest issue is the human connection part and
• 11:14
  then the consumer mentality and I think is a subcategory that
• 11:17
  you could argue also the rampant effect of pornography on the
• 11:21
  culture. It is severely compromising.
• 11:24
  I think a lot of people's ability to bond and because we
• 11:27
  know pornography now from neuroscience like destroys our
• 11:30
  ability to adhere and to bond to people.
• 11:33
  And so if that's messing up our minds, it's like there is this
• 11:36
  overall just attack on our abilities to connect and to
• 11:38
  attach. And I think that's why we're
• 11:40
  seeing so many issues. And so that's something where
• 11:44
  it's, I, I think it's tougher for people today then it's like
• 11:47
  there's more options than ever before and less connection and
• 11:51
  it's making your own. Self, can I ask a little
• 11:52
  actually like on the pornography aspect, like like because like
• 11:54
  the pornography topic is actually one thing that actually
• 11:57
  let me down the rabbit hole. I guess would say, you know,
• 11:59
  with my politics and then later to, you know, now my religion.
• 12:02
  But like the it's so interesting that he that you mention this
• 12:05
  because like of how like of course, like it's obviously
• 12:08
  really bad because you're literally like, you know, you're
• 12:10
  committing spiritual fornication essentially.
• 12:14
  And like it would it be adultery of the heart?
• 12:16
  But like it, I think if I remember correctly,
• 12:19
  scientifically, pornography does damage your prefrontal cortex,
• 12:21
  which is like responsible for like the self-control aspect.
• 12:24
  And again, if I'm maybe getting some things here like just
• 12:26
  factor me just in case, this has been a loss as I reviewed the
• 12:28
  information, but. I'm glad you're not an expert in
• 12:31
  it. Being authentic, OK, but the but
• 12:35
  you know, if given if what I'm remembering, you know is
• 12:38
  correct, right? Like this is like the
• 12:40
  self-control aspect is goes into so many aspects of a
• 12:44
  relationship and also looking for a relationship like on both
• 12:49
  ends. So if you're not able to have
• 12:51
  the best self-control with your emotions, with your
• 12:54
  inclinations, with your temptations and all that stuff,
• 12:56
  like you might not be the most patient, you might not be the
• 12:59
  most trusting of the plan and stuff like that.
• 13:02
  God's plan even, right? Like you might, there's that
• 13:05
  lack of self-control can lead into so many things and it's so
• 13:08
  unfortunate. Like some people might just like
• 13:10
  hate and be like, Oh, well, it's fine.
• 13:11
  Like just have like several wives or just, you know, like
• 13:13
  you don't have to commit to 1 and whatnot, right?
• 13:15
  That's like, not even like, it just kind of even confirmation
• 13:18
  biases the whole thing of like, oh, you don't have to like stick
• 13:21
  to 1 and have that self-control and whatnot, right?
• 13:23
  I mean, like, the fact is like you are you're you're your
• 13:26
  dopamine receptors are being literally distorted to such a
• 13:29
  horrible extent. And you're it's just, there's so
• 13:32
  many bad fruits that come from it.
• 13:35
  But yeah, pornography is one of the biggest, biggest things.
• 13:38
  I'm not, I just kind of want to jump in there.
• 13:39
  I'm not sure if you were done. Just want to let you.
• 13:41
  Continue though. No, no, that's.
• 13:42
  Right. You hit on the head.
• 13:43
  Yeah. And also just the selfishness
• 13:44
  aspect like that, it leads back to selfishness.
• 13:47
  Like with selfishness, it's just constant, just thinking about
• 13:51
  me, me, me, me, me. And it's just that the whole
• 13:54
  point of like, you know, you're supposed to die to your spouse,
• 13:57
  right? Well, men are cultured for to
• 13:58
  die to for their wives, right? And of course, the wives are
• 14:01
  supposed to, you know, submit to the husbands and like what not
• 14:03
  like it's a mutual, you know, mutual self mutual love, right?
• 14:06
  It's a mutual, like it's, it's a beautiful thing.
• 14:08
  And when you're focused so much on yourself to a very like,
• 14:12
  maybe there can be a healthy extent of right, like taking
• 14:15
  care of like yourself, you know how God will take care of you,
• 14:17
  But like to such a selfish, like maybe satanic way or whatnot.
• 14:21
  That's when it's like it really is into so many problems, both
• 14:24
  in relationships and as you're looking at a relationship.
• 14:27
  So you really want to check the vanity, the pride, just all the
• 14:31
  things that root from pride. Yeah, I completely, everything
• 14:35
  you guys said, beautiful. I mean, I think paradox of
• 14:38
  choice is major. It's major.
• 14:42
  And I also think that there are pretty large differences when it
• 14:46
  comes to millennial frustrations and then Gen.
• 14:49
  Z frustrations. And I think that with the
• 14:54
  millennial generation, what I'm seeing most is exhaustion.
• 14:59
  They're exhausted. They're exhausted.
• 15:01
  They have been dating they're, they want to find their person.
• 15:06
  And I, I read something about post traumatic dating disorder,
• 15:10
  like some of these people are now, are now owning this post
• 15:14
  traumatic dating disorder because they've had a lot of
• 15:17
  failed experiences. And they're, they want, you
• 15:21
  know, they want marriage, they want kids, they want all of
• 15:24
  those things. But it's, it takes, it takes so
• 15:27
  much it, it, it takes so much strength to go back into dating
• 15:34
  after going through a breakup and after going through a
• 15:38
  relationship where you really thought it was going to be the
• 15:41
  person and then it wasn't. And you know, so that I think
• 15:44
  that is really huge, that frustration and that exhaustion.
• 15:49
  And I think for Gen. ZII think that a lot of, I mean,
• 15:53
  we grew up, we're growing up right now in the, in the
• 15:57
  psychology boom where everything that I know when I look at my
• 16:02
  Instagram, everything is diagnosing everybody and it's
• 16:06
  like 05 red flags that you're dating a narcissist.
• 16:10
  And then it's like, Oh my gosh, he, he drinks water and Oh my
• 16:13
  goodness, he, you know, talked about himself on the first date.
• 16:16
  Oh my gosh, he's a narcissist. He's a narcissist.
• 16:18
  And you know what? He also has borderline
• 16:20
  personality disorder. So you see just all of these,
• 16:24
  all of these men and women that are dating and they go on one
• 16:26
  date and they. Some of them do, Alice, yeah.
• 16:28
  Some of them do. No, no, I mean to be clear, you
• 16:31
  know, and I think the propensity of it is a lot higher in Los
• 16:34
  Angeles than in other areas or a bigger city.
• 16:36
  No, I, I, but I, I think that I think we are, people are self
• 16:41
  sabotaging themselves out of relationships because they're so
• 16:46
  judgmental. And I really also am a big
• 16:49
  believer that the enemy works in and through, unfortunately,
• 16:54
  social media. So we have to be so guarded.
• 16:57
  It is not just porn. Let me tell you, it is not just
• 17:00
  porn. Men are looking at these perfect
• 17:04
  images of women every single day.
• 17:06
  And it's not just, you know, back when we were when we were
• 17:09
  growing up, you know, when, you know, the millennials were
• 17:12
  growing up, you would see them on billboards.
• 17:14
  So it wasn't as big. It was like, OK, magazines,
• 17:16
  billboard, all right, whatever. But then you saw, you know, your
• 17:19
  mom, you saw your sister, you saw your sister's friends.
• 17:21
  And you, you knew that real women, you know, didn't have
• 17:25
  perfect symmetrical faces and waists and everything.
• 17:29
  But exactly, exactly. But now, but now you, we, we
• 17:35
  look, we're so on social media that men's brains are being
• 17:40
  morphed. And I see this with my male
• 17:42
  clients and we have had to tell multiple male clients you need
• 17:46
  to get off of Instagram because it is polluting your brain.
• 17:51
  Even she doesn't look like that because they'll send us, they'll
• 17:55
  send us pictures. Of these, we can hold the women
• 17:57
  accountable. Too.
• 17:57
  Oh yeah, yeah. Because the men are well, the.
• 18:00
  Men had any filters on us? No.
• 18:03
  No, they're doing me. Filter me for yourself.
• 18:06
  Yes, exactly. Exactly.
• 18:08
  We're authentic. We're zoomers all right?
• 18:12
  But I think women, I think women like to use TikTok and Gen.
• 18:15
  Z as sort of a way to showcase their best aesthetic, let's say,
• 18:18
  put it that way, maybe. So they're creating the context
• 18:21
  for men to say, well, that's the aesthetic.
• 18:24
  Like that's, that's that's what that's what I'm seeing.
• 18:26
  So why isn't that what I'm getting in real life?
• 18:29
  So it's like it's a mutual issue.
• 18:30
  It's not like. I think it is, but I'm going to
• 18:32
  be honest because we're being honest here.
• 18:35
  We do not have the same beauty standards and parameters.
• 18:40
  Women do not place those on men. Men place those on women.
• 18:45
  And I'm not pointing fingers. I get it.
• 18:48
  It's, you know, I get it. It is what it is.
• 18:51
  But I'm just being honest. I don't see that with our female
• 18:54
  clients. Our female clients are not as
• 18:56
  physically picky. However, they are picky when it
• 18:59
  comes to career and what and what does he do.
• 19:03
  For work. What do they want?
• 19:04
  What are the number one jobs that they like?
• 19:06
  Is it still doctor and lawyer or do they want him to be an
• 19:08
  influencer? No.
• 19:09
  Oh my gosh. What actually what what what
• 19:12
  professions turn women off? I'm curious like.
• 19:15
  You know it. I think that things have changed
• 19:18
  in that. That'll be 5090940999 for that
• 19:22
  answer. Right.
• 19:23
  I think things have changed. I think women, there's certain
• 19:26
  women that really value a very kind of stable old school job,
• 19:31
  like a doctor, an attorney, an engineer.
• 19:34
  You know, there are a lot of women that love that.
• 19:36
  But then we get these really cool women that are like, yeah,
• 19:40
  like I have a podcast myself or whatever.
• 19:43
  And they like somebody that doesn't have a traditional 9:00
• 19:46
  to 5:00, but they want the men that are successful.
• 19:49
  They do, They do. I'm not going to sit here and
• 19:52
  lie. They do, they do.
• 19:54
  I mean in our in our office, they come and that's their
• 19:57
  number one thing is they want so.
• 19:59
  It sounds like what? You're saying, and even what you
• 20:01
  guys are saying, to some degree, it's like the expectations, yes,
• 20:04
  the expectations on both sides are out of whack.
• 20:07
  And So what you were saying about JP Pokluda, who I'd love
• 20:11
  to have on the show, sometimes he's he's awesome.
• 20:13
  But I think you were saying this during this episode, or maybe
• 20:15
  you were saying it before, but you were talking about how there
• 20:18
  is this materialistic lens that we see human beings through,
• 20:22
  both physically for their physical beauty and there's, you
• 20:25
  know, how attractive they are or seem to be, and then for their
• 20:28
  material well-being and how much they can give or provide.
• 20:32
  And so we're kind of commodifying each.
• 20:35
  Other and I don't and here's the thing, like I don't want to
• 20:37
  downplay like the importance of beauty because beauty is, you
• 20:40
  know, it's given to us by God and stuff like that.
• 20:42
  But I think there can be an extent where we start like
• 20:45
  making it almost an idol and like like on the male side, it's
• 20:49
  like, yeah, like of course we would want to have an attractive
• 20:51
  wife, right? But at the same time, like you
• 20:54
  have to make like if you're tractor, yes, that's good.
• 20:57
  But you can't be like, okay, I wanna get like all these
• 21:00
  features of whatnot. Like you have to make sure that
• 21:01
  you're like, okay, like holding yourself to the same standard, I
• 21:04
  guess in a way as well. Like, okay, well, make sure that
• 21:05
  you're working out as well. Like make sure she's fit, you're
• 21:07
  fit and stuff like that. Just make sure that she's also
• 21:09
  like good hygiene, that you're hygiene and stuff like that,
• 21:11
  right? But also like on the flip side
• 21:13
  as well, it's just that with, you know, the stuff of finance
• 21:16
  and whatnot, right? Of course, like these are just
• 21:18
  things that like, you know, men of course are more visual, women
• 21:21
  crave more security and stuff like that because of just these
• 21:23
  are just things of like, you know, more of survival, right?
• 21:25
  But that's and there is a reality to that 100%.
• 21:29
  I don't want to deny that. But at the same time it can get
• 21:31
  to the point where it should becomes materialistic.
• 21:33
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very materialistic.
• 21:35
  It's no I'm. Not saying you're saying that
• 21:36
  only, you know, I'm not saying you're saying that like I think,
• 21:39
  but I think a lot of people do like essentially like just just
• 21:42
  distort that really badly. And like it's like if it does,
• 21:45
  like they sometimes they might even compromise like what is
• 21:49
  virtuous or what is like more secure or more pretty or more
• 21:55
  attractive for the male side or more etcetera.
• 21:57
  Like just just a materialistic focus unfortunately.
• 22:00
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  40% off your order. Our culture worships youth,
• 22:57
  right? It worships youth and beauty and
• 23:00
  it extols that, right? And those are like cool things,
• 23:02
  but they're not the thing, right?
• 23:03
  And I, I often think about even the spiritual parallel, right?
• 23:06
  When, you know, when the Apostle Paul talks about, hey, like, I
• 23:08
  don't even know what I should pray for, right?
• 23:10
  And thank God that we have a spirit who like prays alongside
• 23:13
  and makes our prayers like, you know, less insufferable, right?
• 23:16
  And so I have to think about, here's a question too.
• 23:18
  It's like, do we on one level, we know like some people like
• 23:22
  cilantro and some people hate cilantro, right?
• 23:24
  It's just a thing that's there, right?
• 23:25
  So there are preferences. And look, Song of Solomon is in
• 23:27
  the Bible for a reason, right? Beauty is to be, you know, a lot
• 23:30
  of people can also over say, well, you know, beauty doesn't
• 23:33
  matter, right? Because yes, we know, you know,
• 23:35
  charm is deceiving. Beauty is fleeting, right?
• 23:37
  And character lasts. However, it's like there's
• 23:39
  enough in scripture saying, hey, look, yeah, it's a thing.
• 23:41
  God made beauty. It's there.
• 23:43
  But I also think sometimes, like in the in a broken world, if I
• 23:47
  don't even know what to pray for, right, if my, if my motives
• 23:51
  are even off in my prayer life, I wonder sometimes, like do I
• 23:55
  and one of my big prayers, honestly, with relationships
• 23:57
  like God, like I want what you know is good for me.
• 24:00
  And actually, you might even know what I actually want.
• 24:02
  Here's what I say I want because this is I'm sure you've seen
• 24:04
  this, right? People say they want something
• 24:06
  or going to do something and then their actions.
• 24:08
  The amount of like my female friends who said at one point,
• 24:12
  like, I'm looking for this and I'd be very vague here to
• 24:15
  respect everybody, like I'm looking for this.
• 24:17
  And then the actions, right? And of course guys do this too.
• 24:19
  But like, it was like, whoa, everyone's saying what they want
• 24:23
  and then behaving totally differently.
• 24:24
  And I thought, man, do we even know what we want?
• 24:26
  And so I'm, I'm still like in that tension of trying to
• 24:29
  wrestle through, OK, God, what is what is a natural desire that
• 24:32
  you've placed on my heart and say, yeah, like, you love
• 24:34
  cilantro, which I do. I love cilantro, right?
• 24:37
  Some people hate it. Cilantro I.
• 24:39
  Actually I legit like cilantro. Some people know some people it
• 24:41
  tastes like. I forget the compare.
• 24:43
  It's a genetic thing. It tastes awful them, but then
• 24:45
  you go, OK, God, so big prayers like, Lord, open the eyes of my
• 24:48
  heart. Show me.
• 24:49
  What do you actually think? Hey, man, this I know you think
• 24:51
  you want this, right? But this is actually good for
• 24:53
  you. Like this is great.
• 24:55
  And then I remember I had a Catholic friend of mine in DC.
• 24:59
  We were hanging out with a bunch of Dominicans, which is always
• 25:01
  dangerous, right? They're too smart.
• 25:03
  And he said one thing to consider is like, look at where
• 25:06
  you're lacking in your life, right from your what do you need
• 25:08
  to focus on character wise? And then what if you pick
• 25:11
  someone? And I'm not saying this is the
• 25:13
  thing to do, but I found it such an interesting like framework.
• 25:17
  What if you pick someone who will force by their very
• 25:20
  differences, force you to grow in the areas that you consider
• 25:24
  character deficit? So say as a like a really, you
• 25:26
  know, like like light example, like say you love to eat right?
• 25:30
  You're just like culinary. You love Michelin restaurants.
• 25:32
  You're picky about they're right.
• 25:33
  And then you marry someone, you're like, oh, man, because I
• 25:35
  know people are like, I will never date a vegan or I won't
• 25:37
  date anyone who's not vegan, right?
• 25:39
  And I have one of my really close friends.
• 25:40
  He married a vegan. She went carnivore last month.
• 25:42
  Like you don't know what's going to happen 10 years.
• 25:44
  Down the line. Right.
• 25:45
  And so you never know, but it's like, what if, right?
• 25:49
  Like what if you say, Hey, I'm actually, man, I really index on
• 25:51
  food a lot, a lot. I love food.
• 25:53
  It's each part of life. And I married someone who's like
• 25:55
  I, they can't do all that stuff with me, at least for the time
• 25:58
  being. Am I willing to be like, oh,
• 26:00
  maybe I need to like it's going to be harder for me.
• 26:02
  And so I'm going to view that as like a growth opportunity.
• 26:04
  So I thought that was such an interesting like pick someone
• 26:07
  who could help you grow in the areas that you want to.
• 26:09
  So I'd say I don't know if we know what we actually want.
• 26:13
  I think it's more, it's always great to make sure that we're
• 26:16
  we're focused more on what God knows that we want instead of
• 26:19
  what we think we want, if that makes sense.
• 26:24
  I mean, yeah, I, I see this every day.
• 26:27
  And we even have kind of a strategy of how to how to help
• 26:31
  people get out of their own way. So typically when people come in
• 26:35
  and they get a certain number of matches, we will give them
• 26:38
  basically like what they ask for in their first match.
• 26:43
  And it's so wild after 13 years now as I, as I age right in
• 26:51
  front of everyone, but I, it's so fascinating how, how then
• 26:57
  they kind of take a step back and then we say, OK, we, you
• 27:01
  know, why don't we, why don't you let us, Why don't you let us
• 27:04
  kind of do our, do our little bippity boppity booing.
• 27:08
  And, and because we know that you're talking about polarity,
• 27:13
  this is exactly what you're talking about is, is wanting
• 27:16
  somebody that is different. But there will be resistance
• 27:20
  much like anything else that's good for us, like going to the
• 27:23
  gym. You know, there's so much
• 27:25
  resistance in going to the gym. Maybe not for you guys.
• 27:28
  I mean, for me there's a lot of. Resistance.
• 27:30
  We love going. To the gym.
• 27:34
  There's a lot of resistance, but I know how good it is for me.
• 27:38
  But that's and Matthew Kelly even has an amazing book.
• 27:41
  I think it's called it's, it's all about resistance.
• 27:44
  Why am I forgetting the name? But anyway, Matthew Kelly is
• 27:46
  just amazing. Read everything he's ever in.
• 27:49
  But yeah, I think resistance is huge.
• 27:51
  So I think that we, you know, part of my job is helping people
• 27:55
  get out of their own way. But at the same time, people can
• 27:58
  get out of their own way by just learning about this as we're
• 28:01
  talking about it and discussion, I think.
• 28:04
  I think that's such a great point because and I've just in
• 28:07
  the again, I'm not, I'm not a professional matchmaker, but
• 28:10
  I've talked to I have a couple, a few people, but nothing like
• 28:14
  what you've been able to do obviously.
• 28:16
  But what I've seen, and this is just personal to me too.
• 28:20
  When I met my husband, I remember my mother saying, and
• 28:22
  this was years before I even met my husband.
• 28:24
  She but she she reminded me of it when I met him.
• 28:27
  She's like you, you should marry someone in the middle who, who
• 28:30
  is in or was in the military. She would just kind of make
• 28:32
  these comments and I'm like mom, like I'm not really.
• 28:34
  I love our military members, service members.
• 28:37
  It's not like I'm against our military, but I wasn't like, Oh,
• 28:39
  I want to be with a Marine. You know, there's more just like
• 28:42
  I don't really, I like, you know, artistic and I like travel
• 28:45
  and, you know, creative stuff, whatever I'm like that wasn't in
• 28:48
  my mind on my list, right. But my mother, a lot of the time
• 28:52
  moms, no best, not all moms, but you've got a good mom.
• 28:55
  Hold on to her. You know, she, God bless her,
• 28:57
  right? And so anyways, my husband was
• 29:00
  in the military. You know, he's he's retired down
• 29:02
  from the military. He's not active duty, but he was
• 29:05
  in the military. And on paper, if you had told me
• 29:08
  this will be your husband 10 years prior, I would have been
• 29:11
  surprised maybe a little bit like because of his resume, you
• 29:15
  could say because what I was my zone that I was in to your
• 29:19
  polarity thing, it was a very different zone than the zone
• 29:21
  that he is in. But we have some very deep
• 29:22
  connectivity. You know, he is artistic, He is
• 29:25
  into music. So we have those connectivities.
• 29:28
  But the point is what you might envision in your mind, what your
• 29:31
  list might say might not be the right vision or the right list,
• 29:35
  but you still need to have a desire, obviously, for the
• 29:37
  person and an attraction for the person.
• 29:40
  But you need to have an open mind.
• 29:42
  And I think that's the part that is maybe difficult for some
• 29:45
  people is to go into it with an open mind as well as standard.
• 29:49
  So there's, there's like expectations over here which are
• 29:52
  out of control. And then there's an open mind of
• 29:54
  like what God can't can do. And then there's your, your
• 29:57
  standards of, you know, shared morals, shared foundation of
• 30:00
  faith that you don't want to set aside.
• 30:04
  What I have seen happen. And I'll, I want to shut up
• 30:06
  because I want to hear you guys have to say.
• 30:07
  But what I have seen happen often is people's expectations
• 30:10
  are too extreme in terms of these sort of like, oh, they're
• 30:13
  going to be an artist or whatever.
• 30:15
  They're going to be 7 feet tall or whatever it is.
• 30:19
  I don't know, whatever. But then they aren't, they
• 30:22
  aren't holding true to the things that actually matter.
• 30:25
  Like how are we going to raise our kids?
• 30:27
  Are we raising our kids in a Christian household?
• 30:29
  And you're going to be a spiritual leader and I'm going
• 30:31
  to, you know, follow your lead. Or are we not doing that because
• 30:35
  that's actually what matters the most.
• 30:37
  So it's like we have this tendency in today's world to
• 30:39
  like compromise on the things that matter the most and then
• 30:41
  not compromise on things that matter the least.
• 30:43
  Yeah, and even that like even on like simply getting like someone
• 30:46
  like, oh, like I actually know what marriage is for.
• 30:51
  Like even on that it's like it's it's kind of even with that with
• 30:54
  looking with people that are actually devout, you know, godly
• 30:57
  people. Even then it's like, OK, well,
• 30:59
  how do you know who you're supposed to actually end up
• 31:01
  with? And as as people are watching
• 31:03
  this, like we are mentioning God a lot in this interview.
• 31:06
  And I think this cannot go understated is that you are not
• 31:11
  that it goes back to selfishness.
• 31:13
  You're not supposed we're not supposed to do this alone,
• 31:16
  right? And even on that, and it's it's
• 31:18
  not even just me and God. And like, it's not just this
• 31:20
  like idea of just like you and this your intellectual
• 31:22
  relationship with God. It's like you and the
• 31:24
  relationship with with him, including his body, including
• 31:29
  the body of God, the body of Christ, other Christians,
• 31:32
  exactly the church, right. So you know, and that church has
• 31:35
  a hierarchy. So we are supposed to get like
• 31:37
  in the eye is not the hand, the hand is not the eye, but the eye
• 31:40
  cannot say to the hand. I have no need of you.
• 31:42
  We need each other. So he he has made us.
• 31:45
  He has made us as a family. So we are supposed like yes,
• 31:49
  pray that is 100% go to him directly, pray to him and ask
• 31:53
  him for his help. But we are not meant to do this
• 31:57
  without with decapitating him with just his head.
• 32:00
  We're supposed to do it with with the entire body.
• 32:02
  So what does that mean practically for?
• 32:03
  You that means well, I mean, of course I'm a Catholic, so that
• 32:06
  like one of the easiest answers I would say is like go to a
• 32:08
  Catholic priest, go to a Catholic priest to.
• 32:10
  Try to get the advice of a spiritual.
• 32:11
  Counsellor, right, either a Catholic priest or someone
• 32:13
  that's, you know, that that's well versed and you know, well
• 32:15
  versed in good and good practices, you know, that are
• 32:18
  very much based on traditional Christian teachings and all that
• 32:20
  stuff, right, like Catholic teachings.
• 32:22
  And if you're not Catholic, go to someone who is like a good
• 32:25
  mentor to you that actually has like even older and wiser that
• 32:28
  has done this more than you, that has a good prayer life is
• 32:30
  like it fits a lot of the requirements of of who an elder
• 32:33
  supposed to be biblically, right?
• 32:34
  Like go to someone that actually is wiser than you like.
• 32:37
  And again, like you, you want to make sure that you're not doing
• 32:39
  this alone. And God can and will use other
• 32:42
  people to to help us. He does does that with the
• 32:46
  Bible. He we wouldn't have the Bible
• 32:48
  unless other humans wrote the Bible, printed the Bible.
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  We need each other. So we cannot underplay the
• 32:54
  importance that a God has in our lives and his body has in our
• 32:58
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• 33:56
  I'm curious, Ryan, your thoughts on thank you, Franco, your Ryan,
• 34:00
  your thoughts on something that Alessandra was just saying about
• 34:03
  the what women are expecting versus what men are seem to be
• 34:07
  expecting today. And your point about for saying
• 34:11
  this from a Christian perspective, like what's the
• 34:12
  point of this as Christians and we need each other as
• 34:15
  Christians. I think it's going to be key to
• 34:16
  this. But let's do another round on
• 34:19
  this question about the roles of men and women in dating and in
• 34:23
  marriage and how cultural expectations have may be changed
• 34:27
  or where the cultural expectations are maybe off.
• 34:31
  And this will, I think connect back to faith, of course.
• 34:33
  So what are what are your thoughts on that?
• 34:35
  So are we asking about the expectations or the OR the
• 34:38
  cultural? Roles both like both the
• 34:41
  expectations, like Alessandra saying that women want the man
• 34:44
  to be able to provide and have a successful career.
• 34:46
  The men want the woman to be beautiful.
• 34:48
  Often that's a sign of fertility.
• 34:49
  But maybe they're not even wanting that for the sake of
• 34:51
  children. They just want beauty.
• 34:53
  Yeah, I mean, obviously so I mean 1 like you could get into a
• 34:56
  whole and I don't want to get into a whole theological like,
• 34:58
  you know, egalitarian versus complementarian, right.
• 35:00
  That's, I mean, who are we to say like people have different
• 35:02
  preferences and people I know amazing marriages where people
• 35:05
  have different leadership roles. And you know, and yeah, I think
• 35:08
  from Scripture, right, you could say, OK, you know, yes, there is
• 35:11
  there a spiritual leadership role for the husband and
• 35:13
  Scripture it's like, yeah, that seems to be interpreted.
• 35:16
  But also it's like marriage is a team.
• 35:18
  And you know, I always hear that because I have like really good
• 35:21
  friends. People were like, man, I cannot
• 35:22
  imagine making an enormous decision in anything without my
• 35:25
  wife's buy in. So I don't like getting caught
• 35:27
  up in like compliments because I know smart people on both sides.
• 35:30
  But I will say that as far as an expectation thing, one like,
• 35:34
  hey, you like, you get to want what you want.
• 35:36
  There's a weird part where it's like, hey, like if you really
• 35:38
  love talking philosophy and theology, right, And you want
• 35:41
  that in a partner, great. Like that's awesome and that's
• 35:44
  good for you, right? So and just as long as you
• 35:46
  temper that and say, look, there is not one person out there.
• 35:49
  One thing I really appreciate that I had a mentor tell me was,
• 35:52
  hey, you cannot expect someone you date to fulfill like
• 35:55
  literally all your needs. It sounds obvious, but it's
• 35:58
  like, hey, maybe you love staying up late and debating
• 36:01
  politics, right? Is that a deal?
• 36:03
  You can argue, okay, is that a deal breaker or hiking, you say,
• 36:05
  for example, I love hiking. I hike all the time.
• 36:08
  I have dated amazing women who don't like hiking, right?
• 36:12
  And yeah, it's a bummer when you're it be awesome if we could
• 36:14
  do this. But he's like, well, what if
• 36:15
  hiking is your time to go pray with God and you go to the with
• 36:18
  Franco? You guys go hiking, right?
• 36:20
  I'm sure many people have told you to take a hike, you know,
• 36:22
  right. So I'm going, OK, that's that's
• 36:25
  an element where you shouldn't put those expectations on a
• 36:27
  partner. And then I will say one
• 36:30
  expectation, we're talking about spiritual components, we're
• 36:33
  about Christian dating, right? You cannot separate the fact
• 36:36
  that right? There is a should versus could
• 36:38
  framework here, right? There are many biblical
• 36:41
  principles outlined. There's great research on what
• 36:43
  makes a good mate. But the other day, for example,
• 36:45
  I have an expectation and a hope, right?
• 36:48
  My hope is that the Holy Spirit will make clear, hey, this is
• 36:51
  someone and I don't like the word soulmate.
• 36:53
  I don't like intended because if one person gets that wrong, then
• 36:56
  we're all screwed, right? That throws off the whole order.
• 36:59
  But I do love the idea of in the same way the Holy Spirit is
• 37:02
  involved in all our lives, in all these major decisions,
• 37:05
  right? And correct me if I'm wrong, is
• 37:06
  there a bigger decision after choosing, you know, faith than
• 37:10
  who you marry as far as what can impact you and your legacy and
• 37:14
  your dynasty, all that stuff. And so I have an expectation and
• 37:17
  I hope God like you'll make it clear that may not mean
• 37:20
  absolutely, you know, free of anxiety because it's a huge
• 37:23
  decision, you know, etcetera. But it's like, Hey, I want to
• 37:26
  know that I know, and I hear from a lot of people like, hey,
• 37:29
  I knew like it was a weird thing, but I met that person, it
• 37:32
  was something different, right? So that's the expectation that I
• 37:36
  am like hopeful for and I think people can have.
• 37:38
  But as far as like all the other like checklist items, man, I
• 37:41
  think we are all way too, because that a lot of times the
• 37:44
  people and I, they don't exist. We've fabricated them out of
• 37:47
  movies, right? And that's why I love watching,
• 37:50
  you know, certain movies where it's like, man, that character
• 37:52
  is amazing. He's not real, that no one
• 37:54
  thinks that way or no one does that, right?
• 37:56
  So I'm and I'm guilty this to I have been way too picky and I'm
• 38:00
  like, also, I had a mentor asked me, would you like it if someone
• 38:04
  applied the same standard you're applying to you?
• 38:06
  And I went, no, not at all. So I'm really trying to be in a
• 38:10
  posture of like, Lord, hey, you are writing my story in life.
• 38:14
  We know that in Scripture a man's heart chooses the way the
• 38:16
  Lord directs his steps. Proverbs 69 And I have absolute
• 38:20
  faith that God is also involved in that in our matchmaking.
• 38:24
  And it's case, everyone's different.
• 38:26
  Everyone story is different. I think it's so challenging
• 38:30
  because in the, the modern culture, you know, when you're
• 38:35
  using dating apps and I remember in my single season when I
• 38:39
  finally said, OK, I'm only going to date Christian men because I
• 38:43
  dated one of my ex's was Muslim and he was amazing.
• 38:47
  Oh my word, you know, great guy, super passionate, you know, all
• 38:52
  of those wonderful things. But there were some major, major
• 38:58
  value based differences that I had to find Finally say enough
• 39:03
  is enough. I have to stop doing this to
• 39:05
  myself because you know, this is not going to be my husband.
• 39:09
  So I know personally that was something I had to say.
• 39:13
  OK, this time around I am only dating Christian men.
• 39:18
  But what I'm telling you, even as a matchmaker, knowing all of
• 39:23
  this, when you implement it, it's so challenging because when
• 39:27
  you're looking on the dating apps and you see, you know, even
• 39:31
  if you just, you know, by I, I, I'm a matchmaker.
• 39:33
  Yes, I had all of my matchmaker friends set me up with their
• 39:36
  most fabulous Christian male clients.
• 39:38
  It was wonderful. I really, I had to, I was very,
• 39:41
  very blessed in that season. But then I of course was like,
• 39:44
  Oh my goodness, like, let me, let me experience these dating
• 39:48
  apps. Let's like, let's see what this
• 39:50
  is all about. Let's see what this is.
• 39:52
  And it was dramatic. It was traumatic.
• 39:57
  It was so traumatizing because I thought, I thought, oh, I saw
• 40:02
  the Christian label on, I won't say the name of the app, but
• 40:06
  like it would be always Christian.
• 40:08
  I was like, oh, I'm safe, OK, I'm safe.
• 40:10
  Oh, it was, I was not safe. I was not, no, but it was, it
• 40:13
  was like, OK, you're a Christian man.
• 40:15
  So then you give them a little, you're like, oh, OK.
• 40:17
  But you really have to dig in a lot more.
• 40:19
  And there's there's such a practical.
• 40:23
  When you are dating and and and you need to be ready with what
• 40:29
  Lila was talking about, with knowing what what your real,
• 40:33
  what your real deal Breakers are.
• 40:35
  And I'm not talking about, you know, is he 6 foot plus?
• 40:38
  You know what a blessing if the man is 6 foot plus, but what a
• 40:41
  blessing if he's under that. There's so many.
• 40:43
  They're amazing. Yeah, they're amazing.
• 40:46
  I've been a great 552 guy. I thought he was incredible.
• 40:50
  What happened to him? Well, I mean, he was A and we
• 40:54
  matched. We matched.
• 40:57
  The good, good catch. Wonderful, but he was such an
• 41:00
  overachiever. He was such an overachiever
• 41:03
  buddy, he was. But we could then, but we then
• 41:09
  set him up with and some women, like I can't.
• 41:14
  But all of this to say it's, it's you have to be ready with
• 41:20
  like when you are dating in this dating scene, you have to be
• 41:23
  ready and you have to know the questions to ask and know what
• 41:27
  your values are. Because if you don't stand for
• 41:29
  something, you'll fall for anything.
• 41:31
  And there are a lot of these men that are, you know, parading.
• 41:35
  They're they have that Christian label and they're Oh yeah.
• 41:38
  Like, you know, I go to church, you know, and OK, but it.
• 41:41
  Was a great impression about that.
• 41:43
  Thank you so much. But it's like, how are you
• 41:46
  living? How what are your values?
• 41:48
  Do you have integrity? You know, how are you?
• 41:51
  Are you are you somebody that's not honest, you know, but like
• 41:56
  honesty. So it's really learning that
• 41:59
  person beyond Oh yeah, I go to church and, you know, there,
• 42:02
  there are men that like do daily mass, but they are, you know,
• 42:06
  not sexually pure. So you have to, you have to be
• 42:09
  really careful when you're in the dating scene and it's I'm
• 42:12
  telling you, it is like, ladies, I get, I get it, it's very
• 42:17
  challenging. So you have to know the right
• 42:20
  questions to ask and also allow people to unfold.
• 42:23
  So we have to, it goes both ways, because I will say anyone
• 42:26
  can say they're a Christian, right?
• 42:27
  And that's like, and it's really tough because it's, you know,
• 42:30
  and also people can sincerely believe they're a Christian,
• 42:33
  right? And then you go, and so you're
• 42:35
  right, you have to have the value sets and the date.
• 42:38
  I'm with you because on some of the dating apps, like there are
• 42:40
  people, I'm like, whoa, you are so attractive.
• 42:42
  And then I look at some of these pictures and again, I hate the
• 42:44
  idea of judging someone on a picture, right?
• 42:46
  Because also someone could be awesome and just being like,
• 42:48
  Hey, I'm feeling like undesired. And so I'm putting out a picture
• 42:52
  of myself on there. That's like, all right, probably
• 42:54
  not the most modest thing, but you're like, Oh, I because I
• 42:57
  know awesome, amazing women who are just like, yeah, like,
• 43:00
  that's the way to get like, you know, someone to, like, click on
• 43:03
  their profile, right. And like, guys have their own
• 43:05
  version of it's the picture with them with their dog, you know,
• 43:07
  jogging at Runyon, right? There's also.
• 43:09
  You can basically now guess. On a private.
• 43:12
  On a private. Yeah, you know, and it's or it's
• 43:14
  like glass of wine, which says like, I can drink, but I don't,
• 43:17
  don't too much, you know. And I.
• 43:19
  But I will say I have met many people who like you just have to
• 43:22
  you sometimes will just swipe like, hey, there's certain
• 43:24
  pictures. Like you say I'm a Christian and
• 43:26
  then you see some of these photos and you're like, I am
• 43:29
  not, I don't. And again, you can't judge
• 43:32
  someone. And that's the other part.
• 43:33
  You can't judge someone off just this.
• 43:34
  But if you're choosing to go out, you know, someone made this
• 43:37
  joke. And I don't know if it's a line
• 43:38
  that's well documented. It's like, hey, you catch the
• 43:40
  kind of fish based on the bait you use, right?
• 43:42
  And I went, yeah, like, and if that's what you're going and
• 43:45
  there'll always be someone younger and more attractive,
• 43:48
  like and for all of us. And it's just like, that can't
• 43:50
  be the thing we double down on, right.
• 43:52
  And I also will say every girl that I've dated had a great
• 43:56
  experience with, you know, from 5-2 and up, I will say I met in
• 44:01
  person and we met as friends. Yeah.
• 44:03
  And then over time and what probably would have been
• 44:05
  someone, as I think back, like, I probably wouldn't have swiped.
• 44:08
  Yeah. Right.
• 44:08
  And then all of a sudden I go, wait, you know, one day you're
• 44:11
  like, why do I miss this person when they're gone, Right.
• 44:13
  And you develop this. And that's what I'm so like,
• 44:15
  mourning for the loss in this, like, culture.
• 44:17
  It's so hard to like just you meet those and especially you
• 44:20
  mentioned millennials when you're not in college anymore
• 44:22
  and you're not also a lot of us work from home or like
• 44:24
  privately, you know, it's like, you know, I host a huge exorcism
• 44:28
  podcast, right? The dating pool around that is
• 44:30
  actually very interesting. It's interesting listening to
• 44:34
  you guys talking about dating apps because I I don't use
• 44:37
  dating apps. Yeah, I am.
• 44:38
  Are you unusual though for a Gen.
• 44:40
  Z or to not use? It I'm probably unusual, but
• 44:42
  here's the thing And I and I think you've never used them.
• 44:45
  I think I might have briefly used it one time when I was like
• 44:47
  maybe early because. If we were to search, bring this
• 44:49
  out right now, go. For it?
• 44:50
  No, Go for it. Go for it and.
• 44:51
  He's not on dating apps. I can I can confirm.
• 44:53
  Go for it. No, I, I as I'm just listening
• 44:56
  to like, you know, I when you touched on the topic of how
• 45:00
  people, how they present themselves and stuff, and you
• 45:02
  can't judge them and I agree. You cannot judge them right,
• 45:04
  because you don't know their heart.
• 45:06
  But at the same time, it's like you are choosing what you're
• 45:11
  trying to promote yourself as there are pick like when you put
• 45:15
  out images like well, how you dress is how you're trying to
• 45:18
  show yourself to the public. What you put out online is what
• 45:22
  you're trying to get eyes to look at.
• 45:25
  So if you want people to look at your wealth, your money, your
• 45:28
  fancy cars, etcetera, that's what the male said for women.
• 45:31
  If you want people to look at your body, your curves, your
• 45:34
  etcetera. Like like again, it's not I'm
• 45:37
  not saying that women shouldn't look for a man that can
• 45:39
  hopefully is responsible and can provide to his best extent for
• 45:42
  her or that a man can't look for a woman who is like he finds
• 45:45
  attractive that he wants to procreate with.
• 45:48
  I'm saying like when you're starting to become like, I think
• 45:51
  that there's so much breeding ground for materialism and
• 45:54
  dating apps and stuff like that. And unfortunately, it's so
• 45:55
  tragic because like it does attract a lot of people.
• 45:59
  A lot of people do have a lot of those temptations to like go for
• 46:01
  like that materialistic stuff, whether on the male side or the
• 46:03
  female side. I think that's so, so tragic.
• 46:05
  And again, it just goes back to God.
• 46:06
  Like, again, like God will know, God knows what will make you the
• 46:10
  happiest. God knows what makes you what
• 46:12
  will make you the happiest. Don't be afraid of trust in him
• 46:15
  and don't be afraid of compromise.
• 46:16
  I'm not saying be or, you know, scrupulously picky.
• 46:19
  That's where the, you know, that's where the, you know,
• 46:21
  praying and the counselors come in, right, But like, don't like,
• 46:24
  but also like, don't compromise on stuff that you know, for
• 46:26
  sure. Like this is not something that
• 46:28
  I want in my marriage and I've gotten to these concluders based
• 46:31
  on prayer and good guidance and whatnot.
• 46:33
  Like it's just so I feel like it's just so tragic just how a
• 46:36
  lot of people promote themselves.
• 46:38
  And honestly, I, I like, I think that's the beauty of meeting
• 46:40
  people online. Sorry in person, because you're,
• 46:43
  you're really just going off of like their personality.
• 46:45
  Well, hopefully. I mean, unless they're like, you
• 46:47
  know, walking, whether the guys like walking around in like a
• 46:50
  $3000 suit or like the woman's walking around like very, I
• 46:54
  don't know, maybe immodestly dressed or whatever.
• 46:56
  It's like then of course there's differences there.
• 46:57
  But the aspect there is like, you know, you want to make sure
• 47:00
  that you're maximizing how people can focus on you as a
• 47:04
  person, which sure is some attractiveness, of course, but
• 47:07
  you want to make sure the most focus is on you as the person
• 47:10
  because that's what, that's what like seals the deal.
• 47:12
  That's why you marry someone. It's because of their soul.
• 47:15
  Yes, the attractiveness must be there, but the deal sealed
• 47:19
  because of the soul. I think the virtue you're
• 47:21
  talking about is modesty, both for men and for women.
• 47:24
  And if you want, I mean, this kind of goes back to
• 47:27
  expectations we were talking about earlier, like what are the
• 47:29
  current expectations out there? And it's like, you know, you've
• 47:32
  got to put out the bait to catch the fish or like, this is how
• 47:34
  these girls or know they're going to get clicked on or the
• 47:36
  guys. Too.
• 47:37
  And the guys, yeah. Yeah, do their get get clicked
• 47:39
  on, but if you're looking for someone who yes, you want this
• 47:43
  to be the love of your life, your best friend, you need to be
• 47:44
  attracted to them, but you want this to be potentially the
• 47:47
  father of your children or the mother of your children.
• 47:50
  This is a serious deal. This isn't like, is she cute or
• 47:53
  is he cute? This is a serious deal in terms
• 47:55
  of is this someone that I would entrust my offspring into,
• 47:58
  right. And so you that's where you a
• 48:01
  few people said we're not going to judge, we're not going to
• 48:03
  judge. Well, you do judge when you're
• 48:05
  dating. Dating is about good judgment.
• 48:07
  Discernment is about judgment, not to judge or malign the
• 48:10
  deepest motivations of their. Heart.
• 48:11
  Of course not. You're not judging like their
• 48:13
  soul eternally, but you're absolutely making discernment.
• 48:16
  You're using your discernment to say, is this someone that I, I
• 48:20
  should click on, so to speak, or I should ask out?
• 48:22
  Or if you're a woman, it is someone that I want to pursue
• 48:24
  something with. And I think that's a healthy
• 48:26
  thing. Yeah, to have have that
• 48:27
  discernment. Of course, your first
• 48:29
  discernment. I'm curious if we can put you on
• 48:30
  the spot. When you met your husband, what
• 48:32
  was your like, you know, love story?
• 48:33
  Did you were you attracted right away?
• 48:35
  Was it? Was there chemistry right away?
• 48:37
  I'm curious about this actually. Or was it more like a slow burn?
• 48:39
  Was it a Jim and Pam situation from the Office?
• 48:42
  So I think when I first met him, I definitely thought he was
• 48:46
  cute. You know, he's, he's handsome,
• 48:48
  he's objectively handsome, but it wasn't like butterflies stars
• 48:52
  to start, you know, like. You know what that's like
• 48:54
  though. You had had experience, OK.
• 48:56
  Yeah, and so I think there is A and it ended up and for him, you
• 49:00
  know, he, I think he was very like excited, you know,
• 49:03
  thankfully and asked me out. But I wasn't going into like
• 49:06
  I've, I just met the man. I'm going to marry you, you
• 49:08
  know, but I was definitely interested in him and, you know,
• 49:11
  interested, excited that he wanted to Take Me Out.
• 49:13
  I was like, yeah, don't totally go on this guy.
• 49:16
  It was a mutual meet up where my brother knew him and so he got
• 49:20
  put a group together and. So you guys met his friends?
• 49:23
  We met his friends, Yeah. And now it quickly moved into
• 49:25
  dating, like right away, like he asked me out, but it did.
• 49:28
  It was we met in a kind of, it felt lower stakes because it
• 49:31
  wasn't like a blind date. Now, the, the the circumstances
• 49:34
  were my it was my brother and his wife, my best friend and her
• 49:37
  fiance and then my husband and I.
• 49:38
  So it was a kind of an unusual group and that, but it wasn't a
• 49:41
  blind date. We weren't set up on a blind
• 49:42
  date. Yeah, but I, I think that, you
• 49:44
  know, the I guess the lesson, maybe the take away for my
• 49:48
  little story is that, but the like the the sudden sparks.
• 49:51
  I think some people, especially if depending on your personality
• 49:53
  type, everything's an adventure. That's kind of the way I am.
• 49:55
  You're open to everything. Everything's exciting.
• 49:57
  Like everything's a spark. Like everything's everything's
• 50:00
  like a connection and an opportunity.
• 50:02
  But then so you're mate be looking for something super
• 50:04
  intense when you meet that meet your future spouse, like, oh, it
• 50:08
  needs to be like the lightning just flashed, right.
• 50:10
  But it's not, it's something soft and quiet.
• 50:12
  It's like the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit.
• 50:14
  It's like, oh. That's not most I will say from
• 50:17
  my I love asking now like all my friends are married to say what
• 50:20
  whether I knew them through their love store asked whenever
• 50:22
  I asked me married couple and I asked that question right.
• 50:24
  And I will say what's really interesting is the vast
• 50:26
  majority, it was not a lightning bolt.
• 50:29
  There was a when you know, you know, So there was a moment when
• 50:33
  they just felt the peace and that peace didn't mean no
• 50:35
  anxiety, that peace didn't mean like, because you can't unknown,
• 50:38
  like, Oh my gosh, this is a big decision, right?
• 50:41
  You no one can be unaware of that, right?
• 50:43
  But yeah, I think for most people it was like a cool.
• 50:45
  Yeah. And it's funny.
• 50:47
  The other thing that was interesting is for most of the
• 50:48
  time the girl was like, yeah, like I'll give him a shot,
• 50:51
  right. And I wonder if that's like also
• 50:53
  women have to be more guarded because like you have to assume
• 50:55
  that men always have like ulterior motives or but then
• 50:58
  other case the guy is like almost all my this is like 2 out
• 51:01
  of three. The guy was like, oh, yeah.
• 51:03
  Like I'm asking her out. And the girl's like, OK, like,
• 51:07
  we'll see. Yeah, you know, we'll see if
• 51:08
  you're we'll see if you're like the real deal.
• 51:10
  Right. But and then you guys are dating
• 51:12
  then was it relatively quickly that you kind of the sparks and
• 51:14
  like, it caught up? I think I want, I would love
• 51:16
  people to hear that. Yeah.
• 51:17
  Like, hey, like IA great honest. Like, you know, someone that my
• 51:21
  friend group who trusts and knows me well was like, hey, you
• 51:23
  should meet this person. We had a hangout session.
• 51:26
  I quickly like over time got to those person and yeah, and that
• 51:29
  grew. Yeah, yeah, I think for us it
• 51:32
  was that we it we kind of, I think pretty quickly, I would
• 51:36
  say within three months, there was a strong sense of I think
• 51:39
  this is the one. Cool.
• 51:40
  But we were in the same community and we were seeing
• 51:42
  each other multiple days a week, you know, at least on weekends
• 51:45
  at 1st and then we would see each other, you know, more.
• 51:48
  So we were both busy, but we were we wasn't a long distance
• 51:50
  relationship. I think it's easy for there to
• 51:52
  be a long distance relationship and you have these ideas about
• 51:54
  the person that aren't necessarily fully real and so
• 51:56
  you kind of jump to a conclusion.
• 51:58
  That's why if you're going to date, I always like give it
• 52:01
  time. Like give yourself time.
• 52:03
  Yes. But then we didn't get engaged
• 52:04
  for another year, so it wasn't like we jumped into engagement.
• 52:08
  There were a lot of things going on in his life and in my life
• 52:11
  that were things to sort through, basically.
• 52:15
  Down Planned Parenthood and. Stuff I mean.
• 52:18
  Were there any things you felt you were too picky on list since
• 52:21
  you're asking us this? Were there anything that you're
• 52:22
  like, oh man, like this isn't what I envisioned and it took
• 52:25
  you a minute to get over And if you don't want to get specifics,
• 52:28
  you can. But I'm just curious where there
• 52:29
  things you're like, like, I don't know about that, right?
• 52:32
  As part of the dating process, I think we all encounter those
• 52:34
  things and you're like, yeah, like I want to work through that
• 52:36
  or no, like, that's tough, you know?
• 52:39
  I think because I had dated a lot of other guys, I had more of
• 52:43
  a sense of what mattered and what didn't.
• 52:46
  So I if you had asked me that at age 23, I would have maybe been
• 52:50
  like, yeah, like, you know, if I'd met my husband at 23, I
• 52:54
  might have been more like picky in terms of things that don't
• 52:57
  matter. And again, he's amazing.
• 52:59
  So I'm not trying to say there's things that I don't love.
• 53:01
  You know, I love, I love him at 100%, right?
• 53:04
  But but not by the time that I met him, I was 28.
• 53:07
  I had definitely, you know, dated a lot of different kinds
• 53:11
  of guys too. And so I had a sense for what
• 53:14
  was what mattered. And he also had dated a number
• 53:19
  of girls. He had a sense for what
• 53:20
  mattered, too. And I.
• 53:22
  Think that helped a lot. Yeah, like just like like like
• 53:24
  so it. Wasn't a big drama, I guess.
• 53:26
  I think that's what it comes. It's a maturity thing.
• 53:27
  Like it wasn't this big drama of like, oh, but like set it up,
• 53:30
  whatever The thing is, right? He doesn't like to hike or he
• 53:33
  doesn't like to hike, but you know, whatever, whatever The
• 53:35
  thing is, like, oh, he, you know, I'm trying to think what
• 53:37
  it would have been at 23 that oh, he's, you know, he's not
• 53:40
  crusading around the world. You know, he's in the military,
• 53:44
  right? He's now in, he's now a lawyer.
• 53:45
  Like it's not, it's not your typical like, you know, free
• 53:48
  spirited entrepreneur traveling the world and doing his crazy
• 53:51
  gig, you know? I think that that speaks to the
• 53:53
  importance like of like, you know, that you and him had been
• 53:56
  already dating around a lot. Like I think that speaks to the
• 53:58
  importance of like chase dating because like, I feel like with a
• 54:02
  lot of chase dating, you're able to essentially like get to know
• 54:05
  more of yourself and like, you know, both parties get to know
• 54:08
  more. Like, OK, like, huh.
• 54:09
  Like that's actually like is not something that I'm very
• 54:12
  comfortable with. If I would have in a marriage or
• 54:14
  like, oh, this is actually something that I would be
• 54:16
  willing to compromise and stuff like that.
• 54:17
  I feel like even that is a good way to like be like, you know,
• 54:21
  make sure like see, like, oh, like what do like, what am I,
• 54:23
  you know, getting to even know yourself even more of what you
• 54:25
  like. Instead of what is change just
• 54:26
  so? Maybe listening is pretty much
• 54:28
  not fornicating and. Well, no, I mean, I'm assuming
• 54:30
  there's a, there's a purity to that, but I mean, does Chase Amy
• 54:32
  and anything else besides? I think there's a lot of grey
• 54:35
  area, but I think that with chase dating, a lot of it could
• 54:37
  even include just like making sure you're not like, I mean, I
• 54:41
  don't think French kissing is like I, I, I think I, I'm like.
• 54:45
  Freedom kissing if you want to. Go like, I think like.
• 54:48
  Millennials get that joke. Yeah.
• 54:50
  What I do know is that you know. I didn't get that one, and I'm a
• 54:52
  millennial. Oh, you don't remember when
• 54:54
  everything after September 11th, everything was like, you know.
• 54:57
  Freedom. Fries.
• 54:58
  Freedom Fries. Yeah, how interesting.
• 55:00
  Yeah, yeah. I just, I just, I guess I'm.
• 55:02
  A millennial, it gives like gulf of America and.
• 55:04
  You're like, you got the soul of a gun.
• 55:06
  I. Was born a few days before the
• 55:08
  twin towers fell so but. Oh my gosh, you were born.
• 55:13
  You were born the year of 911. 2001, yeah.
• 55:16
  Ohh my goodness that. Ohh wow I feel a generation gap
• 55:21
  right now Oh my. Goodness.
• 55:23
  So you don't know what Myspace is do?
• 55:25
  You. I've heard of it.
• 55:27
  I've heard of it in the ancient manuscripts and stuff.
• 55:29
  You know, the millennial tradition.
• 55:31
  Yeah, the millennial tradition. On the chat, I just, I want to
• 55:35
  say this was something that I remember I had a friend who
• 55:38
  waited till marriage or his wedding needed to kiss his wife,
• 55:41
  Right. And we all thought, I mean, if
• 55:43
  we're being totally honest here, it's like we probably were like,
• 55:45
  that's weird. Like it's over the top.
• 55:47
  That's admirable, right? Yeah.
• 55:48
  It's lovely, but it feels obvious I'm.
• 55:50
  Like, how do you look? What if they're bad and, and you
• 55:52
  know the answer? Like even in your head, you're
• 55:53
  like, what if they're a bad kisser?
• 55:54
  It's like, well, First off, like, wouldn't you rather have
• 55:56
  morals and assume that you could actually like, you know, like
• 55:59
  get better at something like that?
• 56:00
  But it was so interesting that we I even had the rash like
• 56:03
  that's extreme, right. And then I, what do you call it?
• 56:09
  I ended up dating a girl who I just like, I had one of the best
• 56:12
  experiences and it was like, I was like, Hey, I don't want to
• 56:15
  have any sort of inkling of any sort of.
• 56:17
  And it was very short. It was only a couple months and
• 56:19
  it was such a cool. We just would hang out and get
• 56:21
  to know each other. And we learned very quickly, Oh,
• 56:23
  we want different things, right? And we and I remember when we
• 56:27
  like parted ways, it was like a day of like, oh, bummer.
• 56:30
  I can't like call and talk like and it was, and now we're great
• 56:34
  friends, like and it's literally and I was like, oh, what if
• 56:37
  like, because I and I would have said this sounds insane, right?
• 56:40
  And I'm not judging anyone because I was, I was like, wow,
• 56:42
  I've definitely like in every other relationship I've I've
• 56:44
  kissed and it's been like, and it hasn't worked out.
• 56:47
  So I was like, Oh, let's just run the numbers, you know?
• 56:49
  And it was such a remarkable experience.
• 56:51
  And I will say just turning that side of the brain off, right, of
• 56:56
  any sort of physical inclination and saying I'm going to focus on
• 56:58
  just like it gets, you know, you as a friend and a person because
• 57:01
  that, as anybody knows, that can be turned on like that, right?
• 57:05
  And so, you know, it's like, and also people would ask me like,
• 57:08
  how do you know if you're attracted?
• 57:09
  Like, Oh, I, I can, I can see someone across the room.
• 57:11
  They'd get very attractive, right?
• 57:12
  You know, like I brought sidecar Donuts.
• 57:14
  I don't need to try one of them to know that they're delicious,
• 57:16
  right? Thank you, Sidecar.
• 57:18
  So yeah, I just was like, that's I was saying to your chase.
• 57:21
  I wonder if that's what I was talking about because I just
• 57:23
  experimented with that recently and I was like, that was such a
• 57:25
  beautiful experience and we learned.
• 57:27
  Just learn something like hey, not for each other.
• 57:29
  I'm getting so excited about what I'm going to say.
• 57:31
  OK, look, OK, this is based on what I've read of like the just
• 57:36
  traditional dating, but also paired with science.
• 57:38
  So with neuroscience. I read the book called Hooked
• 57:40
  and I think, oh, it's a good one.
• 57:42
  It's a great book, right? And like, I think there's a part
• 57:43
  where it talks about how couples that actually experienced sexual
• 57:48
  relations, right, have a harder time.
• 57:51
  The breakup hurts a lot more. The point is that there are
• 57:53
  chemicals that are exchanged when you engage in some physical
• 57:56
  acts that are are like can be. Now I'm thinking to myself, have
• 58:01
  there been studies that show that with kissing like with even
• 58:05
  mere like, you know, French kissing or even merely like in
• 58:08
  the lips just pecking. So I wonder, I'm like, you know,
• 58:11
  like I don't know if I'm hesitant to say if it's a sin or
• 58:14
  not to like pick and pick in the lips or whatever.
• 58:16
  I'm I'm hesitant. I don't.
• 58:17
  Think you go to Italy, you're sinning every time you meet a
• 58:20
  grandmother. I mean, let's just say, Yeah,
• 58:22
  well. There you go.
• 58:23
  Yeah. And that's where I would be
• 58:24
  like, OK, maybe that's like, maybe that's like that's like
• 58:26
  over the top, right? In my family it's like, no, like
• 58:29
  like. But right, right.
• 58:30
  Kiss your brother of. Course, of course, of course.
• 58:32
  But you go to the line of your heart.
• 58:33
  Not like that, but. Like you.
• 58:35
  But I think, I think you're getting what I'm saying though.
• 58:36
  Like there's there can be stuff that may be like, you know, I
• 58:40
  think French it would be like French kissing would be more of
• 58:42
  like a thing of like, OK, yeah. That's clearly something that's
• 58:44
  like, you know, more like explicitly romantic.
• 58:46
  You mentioned oxytocin. Tell us about that.
• 58:48
  Yes, go for it. Yes no, 100%.
• 58:50
  I can't say that I agree with like no physical contact
• 58:55
  whatsoever when dating saying that I'm not saying no no, and I
• 58:58
  don't even think you're saying that you agree with that.
• 59:00
  I think we're just presenting it as a topic.
• 59:02
  But I just want to, you know, I, I work with a lot of, a lot of
• 59:06
  secular clients and a lot of Christian and Catholic clients.
• 59:09
  As I've stated before, years ago when we had first started doing
• 59:13
  the work that we do, when we first started our, our company,
• 59:16
  we kept on getting these women that were in their late 30s and
• 59:21
  they were like, I don't know what is going wrong.
• 59:23
  But I just, I, I made, they kept on coming in with the same
• 59:26
  issue. They would date a guy for a
• 59:28
  couple months and then it would, it would end.
• 59:31
  The guy would lose interest. The guy would pull away.
• 59:34
  And these were not Catholic, would like, they were not devout
• 59:37
  Catholic women, devout Christian women.
• 59:39
  So and we dug in a little more and we said, OK, like what's
• 59:42
  going on? And they said, well, I slept
• 59:44
  with him. And, you know, like society
• 59:46
  says, society says it's the, you know, 3.
• 59:48
  This is, but this is modern, this is modern culture.
• 59:51
  You know, this is we're we we're very blessed in that we're
• 59:55
  surrounding ourselves. And that's why community is so
• 59:58
  wonderful because we can surround ourselves with like
• 1:00:00
  minded people. But a lot of people in modern
• 1:00:03
  culture, a majority of society, this is the norm, you know?
• 1:00:07
  They're sleeping. Yeah, they're sleeping together,
• 1:00:09
  whether after, you know, a couple months and it's weird if
• 1:00:12
  they don't. And then the the man loses
• 1:00:14
  interest and pulls away and the woman then is bonded.
• 1:00:17
  She releases oxytocin. I talked to Lila about this.
• 1:00:20
  We went, we did a bit more of a deep dive.
• 1:00:22
  Go watch that episode. Yeah, in our fun episode, but I
• 1:00:26
  didn't mean that sarcastically. It was very fun.
• 1:00:28
  I had really fun. It was fun.
• 1:00:30
  It was fun. Episode on oxytocin.
• 1:00:33
  I don't know why it came out sarcastically, but but men
• 1:00:36
  release a totally different cocktail of hormones that
• 1:00:39
  doesn't allow them to bind. But it is really important, I
• 1:00:42
  believe in the courtship process to build oxytocin together
• 1:00:47
  because you're Co regulating and you're you're it is.
• 1:00:50
  It's really important to when you're even giving each other a
• 1:00:54
  hug. They, there are studies that
• 1:00:55
  show scientifically it lowers stress hormones, but and also
• 1:00:59
  how you can tell if you're not in a great relationship is if
• 1:01:03
  your cortisone levels are very high.
• 1:01:05
  And a lot of times people that are in toxic relationships,
• 1:01:08
  there's a trend right now where you can literally see girls are
• 1:01:11
  showing pictures like, Oh, I would date again, but this is
• 1:01:14
  how I looked when I was dating the last time.
• 1:01:17
  And it's the woman's bloated has all of these this acne.
• 1:01:20
  So, but then when you're in a healthy relationship, your skin
• 1:01:24
  is clear, your stress hormones are lowered.
• 1:01:26
  So a lot of this it's, it's a combination of physical, not
• 1:01:31
  intimacy in that you're sleeping together because that is the
• 1:01:34
  ultimate, you know, that's that as you know, should be safe for
• 1:01:38
  marriage. It's beautiful.
• 1:01:40
  But even if you know, I, I am a big believer in, in physical
• 1:01:45
  contact when you're, when you're dating, because it does help to
• 1:01:48
  build that bond. And so you're back in.
• 1:01:50
  Oxytocin is released and hugging.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah, oh, I think the. Point is you're making.
• 1:01:54
  Dog release it if you pet your. Dog, I think that.
• 1:01:56
  No, no, serious. Point you're making, which is
• 1:01:57
  such a good one. I'm curious you guys, your
• 1:01:59
  guys's take on that is basically it's an idea of non sexual
• 1:02:03
  physical affection where it's not like this is just to turn
• 1:02:07
  each other on. This is not a sexual thing that
• 1:02:09
  we're doing here. This is an affectionate thing.
• 1:02:11
  And obviously there's some nuance there.
• 1:02:13
  But largely speaking, you can give someone a hug, you can you
• 1:02:15
  can give someone like I do believe there's such a thing as
• 1:02:18
  a chase kiss. Then you got to be mindful.
• 1:02:20
  There's a lot of nuances here in Gray areas, but.
• 1:02:22
  Yeah, kind of. What kind?
• 1:02:23
  Of having your boundaries, but that's also why it's.
• 1:02:26
  You can hold hands, you know, you can sit close and cuddle
• 1:02:29
  like. You know we can't hold.
• 1:02:30
  Hands I'm curious about this right and again, I totally am of
• 1:02:34
  the mindset like, you know, everyone knows their line and
• 1:02:37
  what you know for me it was an experiment because I was like,
• 1:02:40
  oh, like I just you know, I know that those things can escalate
• 1:02:43
  and crowd. I was like, I don't want
• 1:02:45
  anything to cloud my judgement, right and we all know we maybe
• 1:02:48
  all of us have dated somewhere. We have crazy chemistry and it
• 1:02:51
  makes you completely overlook like the fact that, hey, we
• 1:02:54
  actually don't have the same value sets or whatever, right?
• 1:02:56
  And I, I see that everywhere. And I was like, you know what, I
• 1:02:59
  have some of my friends who do this and they have amazing
• 1:03:01
  marriages and it's like, OK, I'll let's try.
• 1:03:04
  And it added such a level of clarity that I was like, is even
• 1:03:07
  then, I mean, I'm still a little kid, like hold someone's hand
• 1:03:09
  and I'm just like, they just like freaks out.
• 1:03:11
  But you mentioned something that you encourage physical contact
• 1:03:15
  to help bond, but it's like I'm just, I'm asking the question,
• 1:03:19
  shouldn't we figure out whether we should try and bond to that
• 1:03:22
  person even first like because like that's. 100% but but a
• 1:03:26
  relationship is, is not just logic.
• 1:03:29
  And it's not just the it's it's head and the heart.
• 1:03:32
  It's the the the the, the melding between the head and the
• 1:03:35
  heart. Again, listen, I'm the master.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker. You're the professional, you're
• 1:03:39
  a professor, but I also, I'm not a priest.
• 1:03:41
  I'm not a, you know, I figure. You're brand new.
• 1:03:43
  I'm just. Giving you my pursuit.
• 1:03:45
  Not a priest. I'm not a priest.
• 1:03:46
  I'm not a nun. I'm not a priest.
• 1:03:48
  I know. Right.
• 1:03:50
  Plus maybe I'll be a one day. Maybe I learned that that's our
• 1:03:53
  goal is to like all strive for sainthood, which I had no idea
• 1:03:56
  that that was my goal, which. Is getting deep in her Catholic?
• 1:03:59
  I know I have a lot of work to do, let me tell you.
• 1:04:01
  But all that to say, from my perspective, I think that if I,
• 1:04:06
  I am not an extremist person when it, when it comes to when
• 1:04:10
  it comes to these things, I just have seen when you have strong
• 1:04:14
  boundaries. And if exactly like you had said
• 1:04:16
  for yourself, you know that you're going to, you cannot
• 1:04:19
  think clearly if you are having any kind of, you know, kissing
• 1:04:22
  or anything like that. Amazing.
• 1:04:23
  I have no judgement whatsoever. I think for 80% of the
• 1:04:27
  population, I would say it's, it's good to, it's good to see
• 1:04:32
  if you can, you can, you know, be, be together, not in a sexual
• 1:04:36
  way. What's everyone's boundary?
• 1:04:38
  I'm curious if folks are willing to share.
• 1:04:39
  Like how do you see the bright line in terms of physical
• 1:04:42
  intimacy that you think is going to both be prudent for you
• 1:04:46
  personally and is moral within our within the faith?
• 1:04:50
  And I think there's some subjectivity here and there is
• 1:04:52
  some obviously clear, clear lines as well.
• 1:04:54
  But what do you want to go first?
• 1:04:55
  Or. Not you go first.
• 1:04:57
  Sure, So and. We can decide if we agree with
• 1:04:59
  it. Perfect.
• 1:05:01
  I would I would love to go first.
• 1:05:02
  So the I think the boundary really is, and I think this is
• 1:05:06
  university with anyone is that is when sexual excitement,
• 1:05:10
  excitement arises, arouses that's the boundary.
• 1:05:14
  Like that's when you know, like you cannot like that's what like
• 1:05:17
  you should not be doing that, right.
• 1:05:18
  So I think that for some people that might be different.
• 1:05:22
  Like let's say, and I think a lot of people, to be honest,
• 1:05:24
  because a lot of men have like literally been introduced to
• 1:05:26
  pornography since like 11 years old.
• 1:05:29
  Honestly, some of them like like a lot of men like, and there can
• 1:05:33
  be like people that talk about that man that might talk about
• 1:05:35
  it that like, oh, like, you know, even some type of hugs
• 1:05:39
  might be a little bit like too much or whatever.
• 1:05:41
  Like it's it, it's all going to be very subjective according to
• 1:05:44
  the to the person and whatnot. But it's very tragic that
• 1:05:47
  pornography has this sorted like the culture so much and like, I
• 1:05:51
  guess hypersexualized so many people and like it has it
• 1:05:54
  lasting effects that of course can be tried to be healed and
• 1:05:56
  whatnot. But through that healing it
• 1:05:58
  there's you know, there's a there's a varied amount of times
• 1:06:01
  depending on how bad it was, depending on what you saw maybe
• 1:06:03
  and stuff like that. So like it really depends.
• 1:06:05
  And like I would say this like don't I, I mean, I will, I want
• 1:06:11
  to know more about like what you're saying, the study that
• 1:06:12
  you're saying and what not, because I, I do want to make
• 1:06:14
  sure that I'm grounded in the truth.
• 1:06:16
  I would also say that just like because of just, I mean like how
• 1:06:20
  bad it's gone in our modern day, I would dare to say maybe like
• 1:06:26
  if there needs to be physical content, like content, like be
• 1:06:29
  careful about that, of course, which I'm sure you agree with,
• 1:06:30
  right? But like maybe try for both
• 1:06:33
  couples for for both sides to maybe try to get that from the
• 1:06:36
  same sex as much as possible before you have to be like, OK,
• 1:06:39
  well, I just need it from like the opposite sex, right?
• 1:06:41
  Because I feel like that could be a maybe more prudent way to
• 1:06:44
  go about. That well, I think, I think
• 1:06:45
  there's truth to what you're saying too.
• 1:06:47
  I'm curious your take on that. I mean, hug a baby, like like
• 1:06:51
  we're human. We're made for touch.
• 1:06:52
  Touch is not bad. Like touch is a beautiful.
• 1:06:55
  Thing I'm not saying that at all.
• 1:06:56
  What I'm saying is that I think that like, you know, like
• 1:06:58
  there's a difference between like someone like being like,
• 1:07:01
  oh, hey, nice, like quick hug, right, versus someone being
• 1:07:03
  like, Oh my gosh, I missed you so much.
• 1:07:05
  And then just like embracing for like a period, like a great
• 1:07:08
  period of time, just in like like that, that's, that's,
• 1:07:11
  that's more, that's other family or like that's other family or
• 1:07:14
  like someone else. That's just it.
• 1:07:17
  There's there. I feel like it varies a lot.
• 1:07:19
  Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, I think
• 1:07:21
  boundaries with, you know, opposite sex friends are, I mean
• 1:07:25
  so, so, so essential. But yeah, I mean, you know, I'm
• 1:07:30
  not a physical contact expert by any means.
• 1:07:34
  I'm a matchmaker. And I know what generally people
• 1:07:37
  and I think that there is a line of and I think they're they're
• 1:07:40
  very easy ways of preventing things from going to, you know,
• 1:07:45
  to that different level that then then you are.
• 1:07:49
  It's all very great to be honest.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah, but I, but I, I think that, you know, we have, we've
• 1:07:54
  dealt with a, I'm just thinking back to my clients because we've
• 1:07:56
  dealt with so many such a variety and some very, you know,
• 1:08:00
  devout Catholic and then some, you know, Catholic.
• 1:08:03
  And then, But, but I, I, I do find that when they do put those
• 1:08:07
  boundaries on that even very practically like saying, Hey,
• 1:08:12
  you know, I, you know, I would love for you to come up to, you
• 1:08:16
  know, to my, to my apartment or to my home.
• 1:08:19
  But, but I, I think it's important to not, not have that
• 1:08:24
  be like 1/3 date. I think a lot of guys like
• 1:08:27
  something that we see a lot is a lot of guys will invite a woman
• 1:08:31
  to their apartment or to their home to cook for them.
• 1:08:34
  And whenever we hear that we're like, Ding, Ding, Ding, red
• 1:08:36
  flag, no, aboard mission, do not enter, do not go because that is
• 1:08:42
  essentially like, it's, you know, it's, it's come, come, I'm
• 1:08:46
  going to cook for you. And then things escalate even
• 1:08:49
  with the the best intentioned men, but they have to have a
• 1:08:53
  very strong, they have to have strong guardrails.
• 1:08:56
  How far do you think is? How far do you think is too far
• 1:08:59
  for Christians, Alessandra? I mean, I think for Christians
• 1:09:03
  and I think, you know, generally for everybody, wait until
• 1:09:05
  marriage is so beautiful and amazing.
• 1:09:07
  And so I think that would be wonderful.
• 1:09:12
  And and yeah, I mean, I think that's the answer.
• 1:09:15
  It's just waiting, waiting for marriage.
• 1:09:17
  But I'm also I, I, I think that like hugging and cuddling, I
• 1:09:21
  think it's so beautiful and it's such a beautiful part of a
• 1:09:24
  romantic relationship. And you know, otherwise I don't
• 1:09:28
  know, I just. I don't.
• 1:09:30
  So you're. I think it's just an emotional
• 1:09:32
  answer. This is not me saying I'd write
• 1:09:34
  777 logical, you know, research based books.
• 1:09:39
  This is my emotional answer as a woman and you and also just
• 1:09:43
  knowing you just getting a hug from, you know, from your man
• 1:09:47
  after a tough week is there's nothing better.
• 1:09:50
  And it does, Bill. And I think that, you know, you
• 1:09:52
  could say, well, the question, how far is too far is the wrong
• 1:09:54
  question. Anyway.
• 1:09:55
  It's like, how do we best love the person?
• 1:09:57
  And sometimes love when you're dating is a hug.
• 1:09:59
  No, it is a bit is a cuddle. So I think again, and to your
• 1:10:02
  point, I liked what you said about, well, if it's if it's
• 1:10:05
  starting sexual arousal, then that's a simple line.
• 1:10:08
  That's a red flag right there. It's a simple line.
• 1:10:09
  If you know that you're starting to become sexually aroused by
• 1:10:12
  it, that's the boundary. Like you, that's when it stops.
• 1:10:15
  What do you think, Ryan? It's something I'm still like
• 1:10:18
  sorting because one, I think everyone has a different
• 1:10:20
  journey. I do agree, I think Scripture's
• 1:10:22
  pretty clear on like 1 definitive line that you could
• 1:10:25
  infer. But you know, I'm also just like
• 1:10:27
  asking myself when Paul mentions like, I don't know if it's more
• 1:10:30
  or just about the same, but it's like it's basically greed and
• 1:10:33
  sexual morality, right? He is constantly monitoring
• 1:10:36
  multiple letters like hey, flee from this, right?
• 1:10:39
  Flee from this, right? And I go, OK, what is that?
• 1:10:42
  What does that mean? Especially in a culture that's
• 1:10:44
  so hypersexualized. And I also, so I go, OK, and
• 1:10:49
  then also we know Scripture, right?
• 1:10:50
  That there are, you know, Paul says, hey, you defer to the
• 1:10:53
  weaker brother, right? Like one person eats meat,
• 1:10:55
  another meats vegetables. One considers this stay holy,
• 1:10:57
  another considers this, right? And the Christian response is to
• 1:11:00
  always defer to the person who says, hey, I think I have a
• 1:11:03
  struggle with that line, right? And that could be content.
• 1:11:06
  I know many people who can't listen to exorcist files, right?
• 1:11:09
  And they're like, hey, it's just too stimulating for me, right?
• 1:11:11
  Movies too. Horror movies, right?
• 1:11:12
  I know others for example, like language doesn't bother me as
• 1:11:14
  much, right? I'm able to watch Joe Pesci in
• 1:11:16
  several mafia movies. Is it the best thing?
• 1:11:19
  Probably not, but it doesn't. You better be able to.
• 1:11:22
  And this, you know, with Lyla and I, we like the Italian.
• 1:11:26
  No, Jeff, he's like I walked in. He's like a.
• 1:11:30
  Casino was on and I. Was like no no no no.
• 1:11:33
  It was a bad mob joke. But no, so you go, OK, so some
• 1:11:36
  and you know, some people example they can't watch certain
• 1:11:39
  they're like 1 scene and it just like effects them.
• 1:11:41
  And so out of concern and care for like, for example, if one
• 1:11:45
  partner's like, Hey, I'm sorry, but like if we cuddle on the
• 1:11:49
  couch, right? It actually, and one thing I'm
• 1:11:52
  also processing is that I am, we didn't get into this.
• 1:11:56
  Like, what is a successful date? What is a successful courtship?
• 1:11:59
  And for me, it's like, OK, if it's all about a just
• 1:12:02
  discerning, like, is this God's best right?
• 1:12:05
  Is this? And also a bad date can be good
• 1:12:08
  info because like, hey, not a fit, right, right, right.
• 1:12:11
  And good dating can also result in, Hey, we decided we took out
• 1:12:15
  this, you know, ambiguity where we've all had situation ships
• 1:12:18
  where it's like, will they won't they?
• 1:12:19
  And we let it go on for a lot. And one of my bigger regrets is
• 1:12:21
  there's a couple of girls like, man, I wish I'd asked out
• 1:12:23
  earlier just because we would have figured out very quickly
• 1:12:26
  and not I wouldn't have hidden behind the, you know, the joke
• 1:12:29
  is textual, you know, just banter for so long, right?
• 1:12:32
  And. The pen pals.
• 1:12:34
  Yeah, we call you boys the pen pals.
• 1:12:37
  Well, I almost made the joke textual intercourse, but it's
• 1:12:39
  not actually. There's nothing sexual.
• 1:12:41
  It's just more like guys will flirt via text, right?
• 1:12:43
  And, and I remember just thinking, yeah, I wish I'd just
• 1:12:46
  gone on a few dates and not made it into such a big deal and been
• 1:12:49
  like, hey, oh, wow. You'd figure out pretty quickly
• 1:12:51
  that it's actually the more that you're more excited by the
• 1:12:54
  prospect and the potential and the attention rather than this
• 1:12:58
  is a fit. And so I'm also asking what
• 1:13:01
  activities cloud the judgement early on because you can very
• 1:13:05
  quickly. And this is my personal opinion,
• 1:13:07
  right? I like to be friends.
• 1:13:08
  I like to get to know someone also see who they hang out with
• 1:13:12
  like who's the you can learn so much.
• 1:13:15
  Yes, you should go on a date if you want to get to know, but you
• 1:13:17
  can also learn so much from being around people based on
• 1:13:19
  like if you have a friend group. I see, like, I mean that I guess
• 1:13:22
  this works if you're in mutual friend groups, but you can learn
• 1:13:24
  a lot, right? And then how do you have
• 1:13:27
  conversations and just get to know I'm at a friendly level?
• 1:13:29
  Because I will say, I think some people cuddling can even be a
• 1:13:32
  crush where it turns into, I'm stressed, I'm going to kick the
• 1:13:35
  can down the road. I don't know if this is marriage
• 1:13:37
  material, but I'm going to cuddle and watch Netflix, right?
• 1:13:39
  And that's something that I'm working through because that's
• 1:13:42
  like, I know there are days I'm like, it would just be so fun to
• 1:13:45
  sit on the couch and just watch a movie and cuddle with someone,
• 1:13:48
  right? But is that going to help for
• 1:13:50
  both of us further the goal of like, hey, are we a fit for
• 1:13:53
  whatever we want to do for the Kingdom?
• 1:13:56
  But I would argue that's a piece of the pie.
• 1:13:58
  If you cannot relax with somebody.
• 1:14:00
  I, I remember in my dating, in my dating journey, I dated this
• 1:14:05
  guy and he was a world beater. He was a world beater.
• 1:14:08
  He was, he was Taipei just ready, ready to go.
• 1:14:12
  Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. He was like, all right, I'm
• 1:14:14
  going to do, you know, 50 push ups right now.
• 1:14:16
  And then this, this is. And I loved that when we were
• 1:14:19
  dating and we would have dates that would last so long, they
• 1:14:23
  would last hours and hours and hours.
• 1:14:24
  And I, I remember being like, Oh my gosh, this man, he's whoa.
• 1:14:29
  And then we went, no, in a great way because I was so blown away
• 1:14:34
  because I was like, we're dating, we're learning about
• 1:14:35
  each other, we're talking. But but but then we went away
• 1:14:40
  together. It was a very like PG, like
• 1:14:43
  really good. It was a really good, you know,
• 1:14:45
  PG trip. It wasn't anything nefarious.
• 1:14:47
  And I realized that this bless his soul, he did not have an
• 1:14:54
  off. And, and I have I have a dimmer.
• 1:14:58
  I have a dimmer. I am, I am very bubbly when I'm
• 1:15:01
  Alessandra Conti. Like right now I'm Alessandra
• 1:15:03
  Conti with laryngitis. So like, you know, I'm very on,
• 1:15:05
  I'm very blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:15:07
  But like when I'm relaxing, when I'm Ali, when I'm Alessandra,
• 1:15:13
  I'm just very like enjoying life.
• 1:15:17
  But this man was operating here all the time.
• 1:15:20
  So I learned for me in real time that the cuddling part, like can
• 1:15:26
  I relax with somebody? Can I just sit on the couch with
• 1:15:29
  them? We don't have to be talking
• 1:15:31
  about, you know, about throw and you know, scripture and this
• 1:15:37
  24/7 I burnout. Well, whatever throw.
• 1:15:41
  Invite Invite this guy on the show.
• 1:15:43
  You guys, I'm sorry, he. Went to the woods.
• 1:15:45
  Is he married? He is 0.
• 1:15:47
  My goodness. Man is now this man is now
• 1:15:50
  happily married. He is a wonderful he hang out.
• 1:15:53
  Franco and I, we don't have a lot.
• 1:15:55
  Yeah, exactly. He.
• 1:15:56
  Listen, he found his Energizer Bunny, but I am not.
• 1:15:59
  I am not an Energizer Bunny. It wasn't my wait.
• 1:16:02
  Wait, wait, so. I was do you think, do you think
• 1:16:04
  the wait go ahead. No, you go.
• 1:16:06
  I'm gonna hear you guys. No, I want to hear what you're
• 1:16:08
  gonna ask. OK, two things, yes, I think
• 1:16:10
  what, what me and Ryan are trying to get at is that maybe
• 1:16:14
  like like not that you can't relax with someone, but like
• 1:16:18
  like when do you think it would be appropriate to kind of give
• 1:16:22
  up some like physical affection prior to marriage for the sake
• 1:16:26
  of the other? And B.
• 1:16:29
  Do you think you might have associated cuddling with
• 1:16:31
  relaxing all the time? Well, I definitely think for I,
• 1:16:35
  I really enjoy cuddling and I think it's very.
• 1:16:37
  Relaxing doesn't. Well, everyone loves.
• 1:16:39
  Cuddling. No, I want to be clear.
• 1:16:41
  We're more he. Didn't like cuddling and that's
• 1:16:44
  a big portion of what I enjoy in the partner.
• 1:16:47
  Enjoy. That right, yeah, what I'm
• 1:16:48
  talking about is the context where we both.
• 1:16:50
  Enjoy cuddling doing it. But you know what?
• 1:16:52
  Instead of actually having difficult conversations about
• 1:16:55
  what we want or we want to go, yeah, like, you know, tonight I
• 1:16:58
  just want to cuddle. And for me, it's actually not a
• 1:17:02
  huge difference in my head between that and kissing because
• 1:17:05
  1 is basically saying I'm going to trade physical affection for
• 1:17:09
  punting, which is, again, it's phenomenal in the right context.
• 1:17:12
  But if you're like on the fence with someone and you're not sure
• 1:17:15
  and you start cuddling, that can, I think you could end up in
• 1:17:18
  a situation where it's happened to me where I'm just like, oh, I
• 1:17:20
  just really enjoy having someone here and there and not actually.
• 1:17:24
  Throw in a Gen. Z female perspective.
• 1:17:27
  Not for me obviously because I'm not Gen.
• 1:17:28
  Z female, but I. Am so Gen.
• 1:17:30
  Z. Yeah, really this is.
• 1:17:32
  My sister this is my sister talking I'm going to speak for
• 1:17:35
  you. Thanks sis, love, he says OK,
• 1:17:37
  she just got engaged to be married, but she dated like a
• 1:17:39
  bajillion guy She's she's 25 now It's a.
• 1:17:41
  Family thing. You both have dated A bajillion
• 1:17:43
  guy. OK wow, I'm learning something
• 1:17:44
  here. Wow.
• 1:17:45
  All right, anyways, no, but let me just.
• 1:17:46
  Say Rose does have its thorn. No, no, no, no, not like that,
• 1:17:50
  not in a bad way. She just went on a.
• 1:17:51
  Lot of dates OK, it's. Not like she had a.
• 1:17:53
  Chase so yeah, Anyway, so she was, which we promote, which we.
• 1:17:56
  Promote chase dating around this year on this podcast.
• 1:17:58
  But anyway, so she but what she had this realization that she'd
• 1:18:02
  like fall hard and fast for these guys.
• 1:18:03
  They fall hard and fast for her. They'd be like dating and
• 1:18:05
  they're like every three months is like I met the guy I'm going
• 1:18:07
  to marry. I'm like, sis, I have heard that
• 1:18:10
  five times. Like really, I'm sorry to out
• 1:18:13
  you. I maybe she'll make me take this
• 1:18:15
  out. I'm not, I'm we're going to do
• 1:18:16
  this. So what she did is she went on a
• 1:18:19
  dating fast because dating for her was way too much cuddling
• 1:18:22
  and and and they were just cuddle buddies instead of like
• 1:18:25
  real world. Are we going to be a good fit
• 1:18:28
  and getting to know each other? And because she's a cuddly
• 1:18:30
  person and she loves cuddles, right?
• 1:18:31
  She literally growing up in a tickle me and you're like a
• 1:18:34
  little girl. You like tickle her.
• 1:18:36
  So some people are very physically affectionate.
• 1:18:38
  That's important as a love language.
• 1:18:39
  It sounds like you're a cuddle bug, which I love.
• 1:18:41
  Everyone likes cuddles to some degree or another, but there is
• 1:18:44
  some truth to is this relationship like a cuddle bug?
• 1:18:48
  Is it dependent on the? Physical or is this relationship
• 1:18:50
  maybe have that element, but it's oriented towards
• 1:18:52
  discernment towards marriage. And So what she ended up doing
• 1:18:55
  is doing a dating fest, becoming very good friends, strictly
• 1:18:59
  friends with this gentleman, this young man.
• 1:19:02
  They would go swing dancing with their group of friends.
• 1:19:04
  They would like do all the fun things that I guess yours do
• 1:19:08
  today. I don't know what do you guys do
• 1:19:09
  for fun anyways, they would do those things and then when the
• 1:19:13
  dating fast was towards the end, she was already caught feelings
• 1:19:16
  for this gentleman. He like loved her already.
• 1:19:18
  They were just but they had there was no cuddling, there was
• 1:19:20
  no kissing. And then bam, they're like, OK,
• 1:19:23
  this is really I think this is it.
• 1:19:24
  And then within a short order, they were engaged.
• 1:19:26
  By the way, it's like, it's not like I don't think Ryan and I
• 1:19:28
  are saying like we're like anti physical touch.
• 1:19:30
  No, you're not saying. I think what we're trying to say
• 1:19:32
  is that like, like not at all. Because obviously in a marital
• 1:19:38
  bond you have a lot of physicality in it, right?
• 1:19:41
  But before that it's like, do you do you need like, is it an
• 1:19:47
  absolute necessity to have that? Because it's like, I can see a
• 1:19:50
  woman is attractive, she's fit, she and she's bonding with me.
• 1:19:53
  Our souls are. I would cuddle.
• 1:19:54
  That it's like, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like, I don't
• 1:19:57
  think there's like, I'm like, there's not really much issue.
• 1:19:59
  I'm like, yeah, I don't need to know if I'd be great at kissing
• 1:20:03
  her When I'm like, I'm attracted to her.
• 1:20:05
  My soul's attracted to her. I think God's calling us to
• 1:20:07
  marriage. I don't why do I have to do it
• 1:20:09
  now when I could wait later? All right, so let's take a poll
• 1:20:12
  to cuddle or not. To.
• 1:20:14
  Cuddle or not to take this. We're all pro.
• 1:20:16
  We are so. Pro cuddling.
• 1:20:18
  More again, I would just say there are circumstances where
• 1:20:21
  you go, OK, is this asking yourself constantly, like is
• 1:20:24
  this a crutch to where I'm kicking the can down there?
• 1:20:27
  Because I my own personal experience, my biggest like
• 1:20:30
  regrets in dating are there were people I was with that are so
• 1:20:32
  amazing and I like, Oh my gosh, like would have been amazing
• 1:20:35
  partners, but I just, I knew probably earlier on and were not
• 1:20:38
  right for me and I just kept in it.
• 1:20:41
  And I for many reasons, right? And I think, but part of that
• 1:20:45
  was I do think things like cuddling stuff can because I've
• 1:20:47
  already been having the dialogue, like I don't want to
• 1:20:49
  have that conversation tonight, right?
• 1:20:50
  I know we need to like, like do a check in.
• 1:20:52
  It's been been, you know, it's been six weeks or whatever.
• 1:20:55
  Like, hey, is this like, are we dating, dating, dating?
• 1:20:57
  Is this like, is there potential?
• 1:20:58
  And I would say this is maybe a little hot take, but I think,
• 1:21:01
  yeah, it takes time to get to know some, but I think pretty
• 1:21:04
  early on, especially for Christian dating, right?
• 1:21:06
  Because Christian dating introduces a very important
• 1:21:08
  variable, right, which is like, you can't interpret the
• 1:21:11
  scriptures. I don't think any of it.
• 1:21:13
  I may, I may be wrong here, but I'm like, I just don't see based
• 1:21:16
  on a reading of like Paul and everything that, yeah, you can't
• 1:21:20
  if you know, if the number one commandment that God gives right
• 1:21:23
  is like A to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul and
• 1:21:26
  strength, right? If that's the number one thing,
• 1:21:28
  you can't really build something with someone if that's not a
• 1:21:32
  goal of theirs too. You can't go after the number
• 1:21:34
  one thing if that's not their number one thing too.
• 1:21:36
  So you can quickly, I think meet people and go for a Christian
• 1:21:41
  and go, oh, this is something that is either on the radar or
• 1:21:44
  not. And then over time you can flush
• 1:21:46
  out like the more like compatibility stuff.
• 1:21:49
  But like early on, I'm like, you can learn 8020 really quickly.
• 1:21:52
  I love that. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:55
  And. I final thought you can do
• 1:21:57
  around the final thought I think.
• 1:21:59
  I think men are, are, are fairly, from what I've learned
• 1:22:04
  from our clients that have actually then gotten married,
• 1:22:07
  they've said like, Oh yeah, like I was pretty sure I, I, I knew
• 1:22:10
  on like the first date. And, but there is that level of
• 1:22:13
  discernment and that, that's also something I, I hate the
• 1:22:16
  phrase, even though I love when you say it because you say it
• 1:22:18
  with such like purity and just like when you know, you know,
• 1:22:22
  and, and, but as a matchmaker is like a jaded matchmaker.
• 1:22:26
  I've had these guys, you know, as a jaded matchmaker here, a
• 1:22:30
  cuddling matchmaker, jaded, jaded.
• 1:22:35
  I've seen that. We've had to reframe that for a
• 1:22:37
  lot of guys in that you choose your soul mate because you're
• 1:22:40
  going to you're you're going to got, you have free will at the
• 1:22:44
  end of the day. We have free will.
• 1:22:45
  So God could be like, God be like, oh, she's wonderful.
• 1:22:48
  Like she's so great. Like, yeah, she's, but then the
• 1:22:50
  enemy will also whisper in your ear because the enemy hates
• 1:22:54
  marriage, the enemy hates family, so the enemy is going to
• 1:22:58
  whisper in your ear. So this happens every single
• 1:23:03
  time they and psychologists say it's one of the stages of a
• 1:23:06
  relationship is indecision. There will always be indecision.
• 1:23:11
  And sometimes it comes right before you walk down the aisle
• 1:23:14
  and you're like, Oh my gosh, is this a huge did?
• 1:23:18
  But that's the enemy a lot of times if all those other
• 1:23:20
  elements line up. So that's why what we do in a
• 1:23:24
  secular way, because I always try to OK, what, what do I, what
• 1:23:28
  am I learning in my Christian Catholic faith?
• 1:23:30
  How can I bring this to my clients that don't have this
• 1:23:33
  stuff? So we reframe and we say,
• 1:23:35
  listen, we're going to make sure the elements are there.
• 1:23:38
  You're going to love this person, but at the end of the
• 1:23:41
  day, you need to be prepared that you will have indecision.
• 1:23:45
  That doesn't mean it's the wrong person, but you're going to
• 1:23:48
  experience that and it's OK. And then you make that choice
• 1:23:52
  because we have free will. So because the enemy hates
• 1:23:55
  marriage and hates family. So we have to have to have to
• 1:23:59
  battle against that if it's with an amazing person, because I've
• 1:24:02
  seen so many great men then miss out and then.
• 1:24:05
  And they're single at 45. It's.
• 1:24:06
  The reframe. It's the reframe.
• 1:24:08
  And yeah, I've been there. I've been there too, within
• 1:24:11
  relationships. 45. No, but in here, but I agree,
• 1:24:15
  there's nothing inherently wrong.
• 1:24:16
  But but I think your point is so beautiful said for both men and
• 1:24:19
  for women, because I and I and I, we'll we'll have you close
• 1:24:22
  this out. We'll go to you next.
• 1:24:23
  But I I do want to just say one quick thing to add on there
• 1:24:25
  because it kept coming to mind in this conversation.
• 1:24:27
  I haven't said it yet. So maybe it's maybe it's, you
• 1:24:29
  know, a good prompting, but that there is a think this tendency
• 1:24:34
  to when you know, you know, you want to have this confidence.
• 1:24:37
  And yeah, you have the confidence, you want to have
• 1:24:39
  confidence. But depending on your
• 1:24:41
  temperament, depending on the way that you interact with the
• 1:24:43
  world, you're going to have all kinds of things going on.
• 1:24:47
  Yeah, all kinds of things going on.
• 1:24:48
  So I think it's very normal to walk into engagement and
• 1:24:52
  marriage with trepidation, like you were saying earlier, Ryan,
• 1:24:56
  and to not expect that there will be the flash of lightning
• 1:24:59
  or the, you know, writing on a scroll or some magical person.
• 1:25:04
  I had a prophetic dream and I saw you guys together in the
• 1:25:06
  dream or whatever that moment is like, use your reason, use your
• 1:25:09
  intellect. Because God gave us that as a
• 1:25:10
  gift to make decisions. He gave you a mind to think and
• 1:25:12
  a will to choose. Yes, yes and yes.
• 1:25:16
  Alessandra. I think exorcist Father Dan
• 1:25:20
  Real, he talked about how you can't trust your feelings.
• 1:25:26
  It's not like they're not the ultimate arbiter of reality.
• 1:25:30
  Like sure, they are important. You have to take them into
• 1:25:32
  account 100%, but they can't be the final arbiter of like when
• 1:25:37
  you make decisions. That's huge.
• 1:25:39
  And I think that that like, and I think he even did talk about
• 1:25:42
  how like, yeah, like the enemy could.
• 1:25:44
  I think he like says on along the lines of that at least I got
• 1:25:46
  the implication that like the enemy could use your feelings
• 1:25:49
  against you pretty much. Yeah, that's like literally
• 1:25:52
  that's his best trick. Yeah, like that's his best
• 1:25:55
  trick. Yeah, that's what.
• 1:25:56
  He does, yeah. So 100%.
• 1:25:59
  He's sow seeds of doubt. Wrap up the cuddle talk.
• 1:26:02
  Oh, sorry. I think we I.
• 1:26:04
  Did do Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I just have the same
• 1:26:07
  copy paste answers like if it's if something, whatever it is,
• 1:26:09
  whether it's cuddling, whatever, if it's starting to sexually
• 1:26:11
  arouse you, let's stop it, you know, like flee like you said,
• 1:26:13
  flee from sexual immorality. It's not fight, it's like and.
• 1:26:16
  I think as women to be respectful that that line may be
• 1:26:19
  different for men than the woman and to be be like have the
• 1:26:22
  conversation and be respectful of that.
• 1:26:24
  Because that's another thing is women were like, we're just
• 1:26:26
  cuddling. I was like.
• 1:26:27
  Are you aroused? Just like.
• 1:26:33
  I mean, I mean, I do think having the conversation early
• 1:26:36
  earlier Sean and the like boyfriend, girlfriend
• 1:26:38
  relationship of OK, what are the good boundaries because I want
• 1:26:40
  to protect your chastity. And it might even I want.
• 1:26:42
  To protect mine because I love you.
• 1:26:44
  Yeah, and it might even change your relationship maybe like,
• 1:26:47
  you know, you get really, really into someone and like, maybe
• 1:26:49
  that could even be or not like I'm just trying to spit all
• 1:26:52
  ideas. There could be even like, OK, at
• 1:26:53
  first you guys meet, you're like, OK, whatever.
• 1:26:55
  But then you get to a point where you're extremely attracted
• 1:26:58
  to each other and that can maybe even be, you know, rise other
• 1:27:00
  things that wouldn't. So just be open to like detach
• 1:27:03
  from like, you know, from like, like, oh, but this needs to
• 1:27:06
  happen. Like it's like be able to detach
• 1:27:08
  and just put God first and be like, OK, like the whole point
• 1:27:11
  of this is discernment, right? Not if like not if we can, you
• 1:27:14
  know, do how many physical acts. Like, I think a lot of people,
• 1:27:17
  and I'm guilty of this myself. I'm like, yeah, I do want to
• 1:27:20
  like be very, I'm a very touchy person.
• 1:27:23
  Like I do want to be very touchy with my girlfriend and stuff
• 1:27:25
  like that, right? Like, but at the same time, I'm
• 1:27:27
  like, I need to be able to detach because like I'm not
• 1:27:30
  going to my decision on whether I marry a woman or not is not
• 1:27:32
  going to be if like how many times we hugged or if we can,
• 1:27:35
  you know, cuddle or like all these like things that I can do
• 1:27:38
  before marriage. It's like it's going to depend
• 1:27:40
  on like, you know, like do I find them find her to a
• 1:27:43
  sufficient attractive level, of course that, you know, can be
• 1:27:45
  fine or and if I'm attracted to her soul.
• 1:27:50
  So that's just yeah. So I just see in copy and paste
• 1:27:53
  message. If you're starting to be, if
• 1:27:54
  your sexual excitement is starting to arousing you, stop.
• 1:27:58
  Yeah. Flee.
• 1:27:59
  Yeah. I think that's solid.
• 1:28:01
  Franco Ryan, what are your any final thoughts?
• 1:28:04
  Well, yeah, on Frank's point, I think about the script, you
• 1:28:08
  know, in Romans, and you know, it's like to offer your bodies
• 1:28:11
  up as a living sacrifice, right? So subsume your desires, right,
• 1:28:15
  so that you might discern what is the perfect and pleasing will
• 1:28:19
  of God. And so there is an element of us
• 1:28:21
  in all things, not just in sexual period, but in all things
• 1:28:25
  being pure so that we can discern God's best, right.
• 1:28:27
  He wants us to live by his statutes and his principles
• 1:28:31
  because he wants what's best for us.
• 1:28:33
  And so I think 1, you know, it was kind of made as a joker,
• 1:28:36
  like you end up at 45 and single and right, And this is something
• 1:28:39
  I want everyone to hear I'm super passionate about, right?
• 1:28:41
  But we as Christians, we follow a single celibate male, right?
• 1:28:46
  Paul was a single celibate male, right?
• 1:28:50
  Who probably also probably was married and probably lost his
• 1:28:53
  wife or she left him after his conversion.
• 1:28:55
  But like the foundation of the faith is built on a guy who was
• 1:28:59
  a single submale. So any feelings of being single
• 1:29:02
  and somehow that that is a non preferred state that is somehow
• 1:29:05
  lesser. That is something a lot of I
• 1:29:07
  think the church does where they index because yeah, because more
• 1:29:10
  people get married than not right.
• 1:29:11
  And I'd probably I would argue it's probably for most people
• 1:29:14
  they should get married right. And our and to your point, the
• 1:29:17
  enemy does come out and say all marriage is missing out.
• 1:29:19
  It's entrapping, it's limiting you.
• 1:29:21
  It's right and you know that I've really enjoyed meeting
• 1:29:25
  people who some friends of mine who are amazing screenwriters
• 1:29:28
  and producers. And I always say you're married
• 1:29:30
  with kids. You know, what's the time suck
• 1:29:32
  like as far as like, do you miss the time to yourself?
• 1:29:35
  Like, oh man, I've never been more productive and I've done
• 1:29:37
  better work than my married so also.
• 1:29:39
  But if you're single, right, it's like man, like there is
• 1:29:42
  such a beautiful blessing on this side and we always forget
• 1:29:45
  Paul's line in First Corinthians 7, right?
• 1:29:47
  The married person will face many troubles in this life.
• 1:29:49
  And I wish to spare you this, right?
• 1:29:51
  And he says the single person's attention is focused on God, the
• 1:29:54
  married person, understandably, on how to please their spouse
• 1:29:57
  and God. And so there is a unique
• 1:30:00
  blessing on singleness and God. And there's also two parts of
• 1:30:03
  this equation, right? You may be working on yourself
• 1:30:06
  and getting ready, but God may also be preparing someone for
• 1:30:08
  you and maybe be on a different journey.
• 1:30:10
  And he knows the convergence point.
• 1:30:13
  And I also think I know now, now I know so many people who I've
• 1:30:16
  stood at the altar, you know, next to them as a groomsman.
• 1:30:20
  And I've seen that incredible joy in that day.
• 1:30:22
  And then I've been with him 10 years later when things are
• 1:30:24
  really tough, right? And I think there's this other
• 1:30:26
  myth that's like, oh, marriage automatic.
• 1:30:28
  It's like it's you find the person and it's just that's the
• 1:30:30
  game. It's like, no, I know people who
• 1:30:32
  are married to the perfect person for them.
• 1:30:34
  I would say like, it's a great match and it's still super hard,
• 1:30:37
  right? So I would say I hope everyone
• 1:30:39
  in singleness too. Like I can honestly say I'm
• 1:30:42
  truly content. I'm so grateful that I found
• 1:30:44
  contentment and there are blessings.
• 1:30:46
  And sure, are there Friday nights where like, man, it'd be
• 1:30:48
  awesome to have a Netflix cuddle buddy, right?
• 1:30:52
  Or Hulu or whatever streaming service you apply to, right?
• 1:30:55
  But in general though, it's like, but you know what, like
• 1:30:57
  God has called you to whatever season you're in.
• 1:30:59
  And there's so many new blessings that you can enjoy in
• 1:31:02
  that. And so I just hope don't
• 1:31:04
  sacrifice the season because a lot of people just want to get
• 1:31:06
  married, right? Because the church, like that's
• 1:31:08
  what you do. And then you can hang out with
• 1:31:09
  couples and you can do all that stuff.
• 1:31:11
  And it's like, you know what, there are unique blessings on
• 1:31:13
  the season, whatever you're in right now.
• 1:31:15
  And I hope everyone feels like, hey, trust in God and results
• 1:31:19
  may vary. Look, God's, you have your own
• 1:31:21
  unique story that God's working on.
• 1:31:22
  And that may be someone you meet tomorrow.
• 1:31:24
  It may be in 10 years, it might not be you may, you know, And
• 1:31:28
  that's the thing, it's okay, whatever it is like it's going
• 1:31:31
  to be OK. And but I generally will say, in
• 1:31:34
  my limited experience, I have seen almost everyone I know who
• 1:31:37
  has a heart for this has found someone, but it's been in a way
• 1:31:41
  different time, a way different way and a way different person
• 1:31:44
  than they ever imagined. So to finish with the Ephesians,
• 1:31:47
  right? It's like he can do exceedingly
• 1:31:49
  and abundantly more than we could ever hope or imagine.
• 1:31:52
  And so I hope that for me, hope that for you, right?
• 1:31:55
  And I hope that he just does that.
• 1:31:56
  Whoever's listening needs that encouragement that he could make
• 1:31:59
  it worth the wait. Amen.
• 1:32:01
  What a great way to wrap this up.
• 1:32:03
  Thank you, Ryan. Good word, everybody.
• 1:32:06
  Thank you. That was very fun.
• 1:32:07
  It got a little spicy too. We had a little sort of a
• 1:32:10
  disagreement, not quite on. Cuddling.
• 1:32:13
  And we know, yeah, Miss Pro Cuddling, She runs Cuddle Cuddle
• 1:32:17
  money, you know? You guys are amazing.
• 1:32:20
  Thank you. This was so.
• 1:32:21
  I love what like was that? I said.
• 1:32:22
  It was giving. It was amazing.
• 1:32:24
  I learned a lot. No, seriously.
• 1:32:25
  Smash that subscribe button. I know.
• 1:32:27
  Thank you, Ryan. We're going to put afterwards
• 1:32:30
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• 1:32:32
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• 1:32:36
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• 1:32:43
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• 1:32:58
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• 1:33:02
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• 1:33:11
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  Thank you. That was.
• 1:33:16
  Awesome, thanks so much for listening to this episode of the
• 1:33:18
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• 1:33:19
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