Latest / Financial Planner Search / Retirement Planning for Federal Law Enforcement with Anthony Bucci | Financial Planner Search
Transcript
- Gregory Wilnau: All right, Tony, how you doing today? Tony Bucci: I'm good. How you doing, Greg? Gregory Wilnau: I'm doing awesome. Thank you so much for being here. All right, to get us started, why don't you just take a little bit and tell us what you do, what you specialize in, and tell us a little bit about your firm. Tony Bucci: Yeah, so my name is obviously Tony Bucci, Director of Mission Point Planning and Retirement. We're a boutique wealth management firm and we specialize in working with federal employees and specifically law enforcement. We're located in Troy, Michigan. ⁓ We are regionally focused in the Great Lakes area, but we do work in almost 20 different states as well. And like I said, we specifically specialize in working with federal law enforcement, really in that kind of three to five year range right before retirement and helping them transition out of federal service into kind of their second act, whether that's full retirement or some type of hybrid environment where they're doing contract work and then into retirement and then really working through all the myriad of decisions that they're gonna face. So that's us. Gregory Wilnau: That's really specific. So ⁓ how did you come about that? What led to you doing that? Because that's a very specific person to work with. You want to give us just a quick summary version? Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, I would tell you that it was like some grand master plan that I knew 25 years ago that I wanted to work with civil servants, but it wasn't that way. When I was in, 51 now, when I was in my mid-20s, just a new financial advisor trying to make his way in this world, I just got referred, believe it not, to my letter carrier. She saw me in a suit one day and was like, hey, are you a money person? I have some questions. And ⁓ so she became a client. She led me, referred me to another coworker. And then after probably two or three ⁓ male carriers, I noticed that very similar concerns and issues across each one of them. confusing benefits. Two, ⁓ kind of a fractured HR. ⁓ The government is so massive. It's not like private industry where like, if you have a question on your 401k or health insurance, you're just going to call Susie and HR. ⁓ no, you have to like call this massive thing called OPM sit on hold and it gets confusing for them. And then lastly, it's like my industry didn't care about federal employees, least in Michigan, maybe in, you know, Washington, DC. So there wasn't very many, if at all, any advisors that were helping. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Tony Bucci: helping these folks. that kind of led me to like thinking, hey, you know, this might be an area where we can really, you know, kind of build a practice and show value. And kind of what started out with just letter carriers really morphed into law enforcement because I'm in the Detroit area. We always joke that Detroit's the only place where Canada is south of us, believe it or not. And that's actually geographically true. So we have a lot of border patrol in the area and that just and just kind of evolved into working more with law enforcement just because of the so much, so many of those guys and gals who live in the area. Gregory Wilnau: Okay, so you specialize in working with law enforcement, federal officers. That's really specific. I love that. All right, so maybe let's talk a little bit more about the kind of person who comes to you. We already talked about the kind of person who comes to you, but maybe what kind of makes them initially reach out? What's the situation that they typically find themselves in where they reach out to you? Tony Bucci: Yeah, great question. ⁓ I mean, some of it is just the same things that any retiree or potential, not retiree, should say, anybody looking to consume financial planning, you know, those types of, they're the same as anybody else. There's something in their life that happened that made them wake up and say, I'm concerned about my financial future. ⁓ So one of the, know, anytime there's bad news in the market, people will take a second look at their portfolio and say, hey, am I doing the right thing. Aside from that, federal law enforcement have two things that are probably completely independent of anybody else. The one thing is that they have to retire by a certain age. There's a mandatory retirement age for federal law enforcement, which is 57. Yeah. So it's one of the reasons we chose law enforcement was specifically because you would think it's a great thing. Hey, you get to retire at age 57, but I mean, I'm 51. Gregory Wilnau: interesting. Interesting. Tony Bucci: I mean, I have three daughters under the age of 10. I'm not retiring at 57. really the second thing is, is they're forced to leave. So it's not so much retirement. They're just forced to leave their current employment. And to me, that is for a financial planner, that is just kind of code word for like, how do I know what's the best option here? And so our clients typically know this. They've been working for the government for many years. They know this is coming. I even have a client that's got a countdown app on his phone to his retirement date. So that's one thing that's unique about these guys and gals. ⁓ But I would say that they, yeah. Gregory Wilnau: So 50, 57, 57, that's earlier than most, right? Tony Bucci: Yeah, yeah, which I mean, we might go into this a little bit later, but the if the typical retiree is planning, you know, retiring in their early 60s, the mid 60s, you know, their money needs the last 20 or 25 years. Federal law enforcement that that longevity is much that retirement timeline is can be closer to 30 or 35 years. So but that's usually. Gregory Wilnau: Okay. Tony Bucci: And that's, I hate to say it, it's as a matter of fact as they know they have to leave. So at some point. Gregory Wilnau: So ⁓ let's talk about that for a little bit. ⁓ I'd imagine that there are additional challenges that come with retiring at 57 because do you find that in many cases, you know, your clients just retire and that's it? Or do they feel like do you find that there's more in them and they want to do other things after they retire? Is that something that you maybe not just just I mean, whether not just sit on the beach and eat bonbons all day, right? Like Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: 57 still kind of young, you're still kind of in your prime. So how do you help them work through that? Is that something that comes up? Tony Bucci: Yeah, all the time. mean, that's one of the challenges both for them and then both for financial planners that service them. ⁓ Believe it or not, they can retire. They're mandatory at 57, but they can retire any time they have 25 years of service. ⁓ So I have a client who retired at 49. And in this case, you know, they're not really retiring. They're just going on to phase two. right, where it is ⁓ depending on what their expertise is, ⁓ if it's, you know, like maybe FBI or Secret Service, phase two maybe isn't retirement. It's just they're going to go leverage their public service in security and law enforcement into more private sector, private sector employment. And that employment tends to be pretty, pretty highly, pretty well compensated. ⁓ That's one area. And then they just kind of delay conventional retirement until they're kind of done with that area. ⁓ But more often than not, it involves some level of ⁓ some version between that, doing something else in their previous, that there, that would be a natural fit. And ⁓ two or three years of conventional retirement where they're like, Hey, I'm going to take two or three years off. I'm going to go to my kids high school football games. I'm gonna go to, and by the way, they're putting kids through college still and retired. And they spent a couple of years kind of figuring that out. If they're gonna go back to work or what life would look like. More often than not, the exception is they do nothing. Like the conventional sit on a beach, eat bonbons, that kind of stuff. Sorry, that's a... Gregory Wilnau: So do you have a significant amount of clients who choose to do that? Or is it like split? Tony Bucci: ⁓ It's always it's I would say the the first two or three years it's for law enforcement ⁓ It unless they're going at 57 like it's almost always they're gonna do some level of work for or some something else because their spouses typically are also still working so ⁓ They're gonna if they want to be retired and sit at home more often than not they're by themselves so ⁓ So, which for some people maybe that's retirement, right? So I know my wife would be happy to. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Do you find that they'll come to you and like complain about being bored? Is that something that happens? Tony Bucci: they will eventually. That's kind of where we do, yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Do you help them work through it? How do you help them? Do you help them like figure out what to do and get to know them so that you can make more tailored recommendations? Is this something that happens kind of over time? Tony Bucci: Yeah. It does, but I more often than not, I mean that's one of the reasons we try to engage our clients in that three to five year window before retirement because a couple years before I'm going to tell you like, yeah, like, what are you going to do? Like if they have nothing, I'll start to say, all right, listen, you're going to like, retirement is more than just money. You know, like it's what you're doing. You're not going to be comfortable just sitting at your house. So we start to have these conversations. Gregory Wilnau: ⁓ Get them thinking about it ahead of time. Yeah. Tony Bucci: We provide resources so that they can retire to something and not just from something. That's actually a lesson I learned when we were doing all our work with the letter carriers back 15 years ago. Where, and this is off the subject a bit, but some employment situations are so poor that retiring to and then figuring it out later is a win. so we notice a lot of Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Mm. Tony Bucci: of those types of folks early on, like it didn't really matter what they did. They just wanted to stop working. That's not necessarily the case with law enforcement. ⁓ These are people that are solving crimes. They're protecting, they're protecting our border. they're, ⁓ there, there's a lot of, they're doing something that's important to them. And there's a lot that wouldn't retire if they weren't forced to. So you're a hundred percent on like they need to have something else. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Tony Bucci: And we try to really work with them too. If they don't have something else to give them the resources to discover that on their own. Gregory Wilnau: Okay, so you said you helped them retire not from something but retire ⁓ to something. What do you mean by that? Can you give me an example? Tony Bucci: Yeah, financial planners are like, we're kind of like, we're numbers people, but we're also psychologists, right? Money is very personal. We're not really, sorry, amateur psychologists. I don't want to offend any of the actual practicing psychologists. ⁓ that kind of the intersection of like the numbers and psychology is what retiring to something is. And so, like, so for us, like if we're If our output, our advice is how do I turn your retirement nest egg into a level of income? ⁓ You know, the question we want is how much do you need? And when we start that question and they answer, I don't know, I don't know what I need. So answering the question, what do you need is really, it's really a question of what am I doing with my time and what does that cost me? So. ⁓ Well, is like, kind of looked at this thing in general. This isn't so much about them, but, hey, it's going to be amazing. Every day is going to be on the beach or everybody's got a new adventure. that kind of like, euphoria only lasts for like a year. At some point routine settles in. And so because we need the number, in order for me to be an effective steward of someone's retirement resources, I need to know what they want to spend their money on. And if they don't know what that is, it's almost impossible to come up with an investment strategy. Because we do believe that, like, I mean, there's thousands of good, different amazing investments, but the portfolio that's right for that client is based on their financial plan, which is based on what is the money for? And that helps them answer the question, what am I retiring to? Gregory Wilnau: Interesting. Right. So I'd imagine that this would be a typical situation that your clients come to you with that you helped lead them through during that first five years. Is there anything else specifically during that time period that you find, maybe top one to two, that common scenarios that your clients need help with or that they work with you on those five years leading up to retirement? Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. mean, mean, probably the there's two big ones, especially for the law enforcement. One is like just the do they have enough? Like we don't have to after after I spent just this, you know, diatribe on like, hey, what are we retiring to and what are you spending? ⁓ When you're five years out from retirement, you don't know. You don't need to know that with a tremendous amount of specificity. But we do kind of have to know like, you in the are you in the ballpark? And so one of the first thing we'll do is just do a capability study. It said, all right, if you were to retire at age 57, how much of your pre-retirement income would you actually be able to get? And that lets us know whether or not you need to take action now in order to shore up the ability to retire at a certain age. Because one of the things we don't want to see, and then I have clients that are like this, where when they do, mandatory out at 57. We want work to be optional, not a requirement. And what I've encountered on more than a few occasions is work was not optional. It was required because we were underfunded for retirement. And that's really the lesson I learned. And those types of clients I met, like maybe the year when they were 56 or 55, there wasn't enough time to shore up their retirement. So first and foremost, we're taking, yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. Tony Bucci: Go ahead, sorry, go. Gregory Wilnau: Is that somebody who would be a bad fit or not ready to work with you? How would you approach that? Like, how do you know, you know, would you continue to work with them, make recommendations if you're like, if somebody comes to you and they realize they're not ready to retire on time or don't have enough money? Like, how do you work through that situation? Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's we still will still for them is so long as retirement is, you know, you can't one on one in this case equals to like if they want to retire and they don't have the money, then you don't have them necessarily the resources or capability. So just because they don't have it right at that mandatory retirement age doesn't mean that we can't continue to work with them in whatever they're to leverage the benefits that they had. while they're working for the government and spend a couple of years in private sector, doing those traditional things that even federal employees do, which is saving your retirement, tax plan, that type of stuff. But the first thing is, are you gonna have enough? And then the second thing, and this is almost across the board, is what do we project your tax situation to look like when you retire? And this goes to something that's ingrained across, I think, all companies in which to me is like an over-reliance on traditional 401k. we all, financial retirement has been based on this idea that you're going to be in a lower tax bracket in retirement than you are now. So when I put money in my retirement plan, in this case, the government, it's the Thrift Savings Plan, I want to maximize my pre-tax contributions. I want to save the money now. and then I'll pay less in taxes later. And the only way I've actually ever seen someone pay less in taxes later is they take less income. And most people don't retire. Here's another thing. Most people don't retire on less than they're making now, or they would otherwise already be living on that money. So unless you plan to take a pay cut when you retire, your income tax bracket's gonna be about the same. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. Tony Bucci: What I've noticed though is that when you hit retirement with 95 or 99 % of your nest egg in pre-tax retirement, your ability to spend that money is kind of restricted because it's kind of, know the more you take out of that, the more the higher tax brackets. So it's not uncommon for hitting retirement and wanting to do something like renovate the house, buy a condo in Florida. Well, if you have to... Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Tony Bucci: If your only source of money is your pre-tax TSP and you need to drop a 200 grand down payment, you're decidedly not in a lower tax bracket. For that year, you might be in 35 or 37 % bracket. So kind of backing this in is like those five years prior to retirement, we're talking about educating the clients on their taxes, what their taxes might look like in retirement, and then helping them build tax-free or after-tax buckets. So I don't have to predict what your tax situation is gonna look like your retirement. I just know I'll have different ⁓ arrows in my quiver I can pull from when you wanna retire. so those two things. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Right. So what's the difference between working with a larger firm and a smaller, more boutique firm like yourself? Not even pros or cons, good or bad. There's just differences, right? Any thoughts on that? Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good. How much time you have? I'm just kidding. ⁓ so I yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Well, I'm focusing more on like why your clients typically, ⁓ what makes them prefer, why would they prefer you and what you offer as a smaller, more boutique firm. Tony Bucci: Yeah, good question. Yeah. So what I would say is that mission point is like better way to describe us is not so much small is like we're more of a specialist. So like in this case, if there is a federal employees, federal law enforcement, if I had to equate that to be a physician, like we're neurologists that specialize in a very specific type of brain cancer, but we operate in a large hospital system with And so we're not, so although what we do is very boutique, ⁓ like so our, we work through an independent broker dealer called LPL. LPL has, you know, is the largest independent broker dealer in the country. There's 20 some odd thousand advisors, but they don't, they're, not like working for Apple or General Motors. Each one of the advisors that they support and we work through, they're the mission points of the world. They're, Johnson & Johnson Wealth Management that focuses on family wealth in Raleigh, North Carolina. So the best way I would describe it is I think you should work with a big company because a big company, and in this case, our back office LPL is huge because they can provide resources and capabilities ⁓ for the clients and that's what the clients should want. But in our particular case, we're only small because of our specialization. So what I would say is the negative, and I know you asked for a negative, but the negative is if you're a teacher looking ⁓ to help have an advisor who knows your situation, it's probably not the right candidate for you. Maybe not the best fit for you. But for our specific niche, we believe we're one of the better choices. Gregory Wilnau: you So you understand more nuance and intricacies, and you probably also have a lot of experience with different circumstances that many of your other clients would find themselves in and are able to better work through it. So it's a much more specialized focus. OK. All right. So let's shift gears here a little bit. I know this might be a little hard to do. I think a lot of us are focused a lot on things that we could do better or improve on. But I want you to put your humble hat on. Tony Bucci: Absolutely. Gregory Wilnau: and brag about yourself for a little bit. ⁓ Just for a minute and tell us something that you do for your clients that takes a lot of time or energy, but that they probably will never see or know. Tony Bucci: It's a great question. ⁓ So it's funny, we want them to know what we do more, but oftentimes, you're right, this is a good question. So I'd probably say more on the tax planning. So ⁓ when someone's retired, assuming that they've built the flexibility by working with us, and we have these different piles of money we can pull from, and look, it's like baking ⁓ a cake, a tax cake, which is completely boring to talk about. And nobody really likes to hear about this, including our clients. So I spend, and our team will spend, in an inordinate amount of time trying to get the mix right. How much do we take from Roth? How much do we take from traditional? What is the capital gains rate? And we have like a rolling projection throughout the year. ⁓ And so it's only something that another numbers person would really get geeked about like, hey, you know, we're going to keep this client in the 12 % bracket and we're going to realize these and we're going to do a Roth conversion. And the clients are like, okay, so I'm paying less in taxes, right? And the answer is yes. that, so the answer to the question is I think more or less the level of detail that we like to get on taxes. Because for us, candidly, like it's something that we can control. There isn't a loop, like we do a lot of what we do is portfolio management, but Last time I checked, I can't control the market. ⁓ If there's something that happens in the world and the market reacts to that, there's nothing that I can necessarily do about that. I can prepare my clients for it. I can build portfolios that are robust. But tax planning is something we kind of think about. We actually have a little bit of a lever on. And so that's why we get a little bit geeky on that. ⁓ And I haven't met anybody that enjoys paying more taxes than they want to. ⁓ Gregory Wilnau: All Tony Bucci: That would probably be it. Hopefully that made sense. Gregory Wilnau: So you put a lot of detail and work into that. Yeah, it makes complete sense. ⁓ I'd imagine that with your specific, with your types of clients, that's something that is really necessary and important considering their situation. So it's good to know that you put a lot of time into that. All right, so. Tony Bucci: But I mean, just to add, just to add real quick on that, mean, this is everything overlooked for other people, but like they've spent, you know, it's not uncommon for our clients to be the millionaire next door. You know, maybe they've lived an upper middle-class life, but they have saved diligently. This is our clients are diligent savers. They're, they're going to have a million, million and a half, two million in their retirement account. And all that money is just delayed gratification. They've waited to enjoy this money. And. I feel like tax planning is just our ethical responsibility to them to know about the tax law so they don't overpay and essentially waste the effort that they place to get to that point. So that's kind of my thought on that, at least. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah, I like it. also think that you give them the high level information so that they feel peace of mind about it without all the details that will stress them out too. Tony Bucci: I mean, if they want the details, well, I have some clients who are, ⁓ we'll say, you know, their US Treasury agents are like this. They're criminal investigators, but for more financial crimes. So they all come with, a lot of them come with accounting backgrounds. So ⁓ they'll, they'll nerd out with us if they, you know, it's funny, they'll still hire us and they have accounting backgrounds, ⁓ but they'll nerd out with us on the taxes. they're more the, they're more the exception of the role. So. Gregory Wilnau: Okay. I like it. I like that you can accommodate that. You probably wouldn't be able to if you didn't put as much time, energy, and effort into ⁓ those things behind the scenes. OK, so let's start talking about where the rubber hits the road. ⁓ Let's say somebody starts working with you. The timing's right. They're ready to make some moves. They realize that it's best time to get started. They become a client today. Walk me through what they can expect the first couple of weeks and into the first 12 months of working with you. What does that kind of look like? ⁓ Kind of walk me through it. Tony Bucci: Yeah. Okay, so we have something called the Great Step Retirement Program. It's more ⁓ law, or federal employees are, they all know the GS system, the great, and they, they're essentially different steps and different levels that kind of govern their compensation and their seniority. And so the way we think about it is the last great step is there, is retirement. So we've created different silos and different buckets that cover, we'll call it, the various areas of retirement. I'll be, I'll generalize it for the time being. ⁓ But ultimately, the first three, we focus on the three core areas, which is retirement income. How are you going to turn your pile into a paycheck, so to speak? ⁓ Your retirement feasibility, which is do we have enough between your resources? So federal employees have a pension. They also have this thing called a retirement supplement, which They have their social security and then they have their savings. And that timeline doesn't necessarily match up. So we create their timeline right off the bat. For example, federal law enforcement, they get their supplemental age 62. They get their pension right away. They get their supplemental 62, but then they may have a gap before they collect social security. So we're kind of building that timeline. And then the last part is we're doing two things on the tax front. We're doing an initial tax analysis that say, okay, what is our tax situation presently? What do we expect our tax situation to look like next year? And how do we translate that into actionable recommendations as it relates to your retirement? So the easiest one is how much should you be putting in your traditional pre-tax versus raw? What is your raw TSP, pre-tax mix? ⁓ So those are the kind of those three things retirement readiness and timeline Retirement income strategy, which is ultimately is how am I going to invest my money to generate? extra income when I retire And then your tax situation those form the core of the first 90 days will say that somebody is working with us ⁓ Gregory Wilnau: So that's what happens the first 90 days, those three things. How about the rest of the year and ongoing? Do you do regular check-ins? How often? What does that look like? Tony Bucci: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. the ⁓ more often than the first meeting, the first year looks like four separate meetings to kind of tackle the, tackle the silos. So ⁓ the other three kind of areas that we focus on are ⁓ more of ⁓ one is risk management. So federal employees have this thing called FEGLI. So I always joke FEGLI is not like a new form of pasta. It stands for Federal Employee Group Life Insurance. And so FEGLI is often time, I that's term life insurance, but it might be term life insurance that might be the most expensive term I've ever seen in my life. So we'll do a risk management assessment. Do they have enough insurance? Where's their liabilities? Does FEGLI make the right sense? If not, can they save some bucks? And then we'll refer them out to an insurance expert and we'll facilitate that. ⁓ Speaking on risk management, we'll also discuss estate planning as well. ⁓ And we do, this is where we are very different. We get much more involved in estate planning than a traditional advisor who will send you to their attorney of choice. We have a partnership with a company called wealth.com. Think of it like TurboTax for estate planning. So our goal is if a client doesn't have an estate plan, by the time they're done with us for, including in our financial planning fee, they will have a finished estate plan as well. We'll trust if they need it, so on. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. Tony Bucci: ⁓ Gregory Wilnau: It'd be nice to know that those things are taken care of. That's something that people tend not to, ⁓ tend to procrastinate, I think. ⁓ Tony Bucci: Yeah, you got it. got it. ⁓ And then the last the other last silo is and I mean, it's funny, I've never really talked about it too much is it's the money. Like how we like what can we be like we can't manage their thrift savings plan. ⁓ It doesn't mean we're not going to give them guidance on it. So how do we how do we allocate the money so that if with with some degree of specificity, it prepares them for the time that they could start taking money in retirement. ⁓ It seems like that's that should be. When I, when I say it, like, that's the sixth thing I've said, but why is it not the first? Um, it's not the first because we need that. We kind of need to know the why, what's going to happen. And then the money is invested according to the wine, what's happening. Um, but those really, those kind of round out the, GS retirement system. And over a course of four meetings throughout the year, we're hitting those six huge areas. Gregory Wilnau: Hmm. Hmm. Right. Tony Bucci: And then it changes into year two and three and there's we start to get more specific on other areas of their financial plan. Gregory Wilnau: I it. I love how specific you are and how detailed you are and how you've laid all that out for everybody. Okay, so for someone who's interested in ⁓ possibly working with you or getting in touch to start that process, what should they do next? How can they get in touch with you? Tony Bucci: Yeah, probably the best way to start is just our website, www.missionpointplan.com. Aside from being a great resource to federal employees, ⁓ we post our thoughts, our blog, you know, or, just, it's just, you don't have to want to work with us to gain something from there. ⁓ On that site though, there is a section where it says start here. And start here for us is where we just do a very laid back, 20 minute conversation with a prospective client. ⁓ And this is intentional. ⁓ In the first five years of my career, I very much felt like I was ⁓ at a place where it was the heavy pressure, get somebody, get them in the door, get them signing on the line that's dotted and they become a client. And I really, I never loved it then and I don't love it now. So given my... given our clients who are investigators naturally, these are smart people that take a pause before they consider someone giving a blind advice. We want to have this 20 or 30 minute discussion and it's open-ended. Don't ask them for anything. And I just want to get to know what they're looking for and they get to know how we work. And then after that, if we agree that there's a potential for where we can benefit from them, we'll move on to the next stage and the next step. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Nice. No pressure, seeing how it feels kind of like a vibe check. Tony Bucci: But yeah, they just. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don't personally, I wouldn't want to. I don't know. I try to I try to craft what we do here based on like what I would enjoy. And I'm I would never hire a financial planner like like how like like how people buy time shares at vacation properties like it be. We don't we don't want to have all these regrets, right? Yeah. ⁓ Gregory Wilnau: Alright, Tony. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely not. Well, Tony, thank you so much. Tony from Mission Point Plan, missionpointplan.com. Thanks for stopping by. Appreciate you. Tony Bucci: Hey, thanks for having me, Greg. Appreciate it. Gregory Wilnau: My pleasure.