Latest / Boxing B-Sides / [BxBD] Defining greatness and madness in Tokyo

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[BxBD] Defining greatness and madness in Tokyo · Boxing B-Sides

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what else more you want. The B -Side in boxing.
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B -Side shit. B -Side. B -Side. And the B -Side.
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Don't brag about taking my side piece. Don't
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brag about taking my side piece. The B -Side
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thing. This is the B -Side's boxing podcast.
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I left with his belt and his girl. Eddie Hearn
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potentially going to retire if Dana White's boxing
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league comes into fruition. I don't believe that
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for a second. I don't believe that either. Eddie
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Hearn has already said he doesn't give a shit.
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We were here before them and we'll be here after
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them type thing. Yeah, gimmicks come and go.
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Yeah. What's this Canadian boycotts? Oh, okay.
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Yeah, so the guys in Discord were talking about
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it and I had to go look into it because it's
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the most Canadian bullshit ever. So Canadian...
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Canadians are doing the don't buy American. Not,
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like, try and buy Canadian or just not American.
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Yeah, I know. The boycott general. Yeah. But,
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so people are going into the stores and taking
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American products and putting them upside down.
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So, like, all the Pringles are upside down on
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the shelf. Okay. And I went and found some, like,
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Instagram posts and shit. Everybody in the comments
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is discussing whether it's vandalism. What? They're
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not ruining them. They're not doing anything.
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They're just flipping them upside down. And I'm
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like, this is the most Canadian bullshit ever.
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Is this vandalism? Yeah, you guys are being so
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rude, and somebody has to go fix that, and you're
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costing hundreds of man hours in stores across
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the country. It's like, just leave it. Yeah,
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just leave it. It does not detract from the product
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one bit. No. They're still edible. The Pringles
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are. It's fine. Yep. Yeah, I thought it was so
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funny and so Canadian. Well, this tells people
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what not to buy. And I'm like, anybody who gives
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a shit is just going to go look it up themselves,
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guys. And I'm sure it's on the label somewhere.
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Yeah. Well, and then, so, a couple years ago,
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they were boycotting Lawson's. Not Lawson's.
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Oh, fuck. I forget what the company is that owns,
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like, Safeway. Ah, drawn a blank. Anyways, doesn't
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matter. They're fucking terrible. They've been
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price gouging for years and they own so many
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different grocery stores that they can basically
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monopolize it. And so they were boycotting them
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a couple years ago for good reason. And now those
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guys have started putting little, um, peas on
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all the products that are affected by tariffs.
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Peas? Tea, like tariff. Okay, I see. So now everybody's
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like, well, maybe we could shop there again.
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And I'm like, you guys are getting tricked. Like,
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fuck off with this bullshit. Is it Sobeys? Sobeys?
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Yeah. Who owns Sobeys, though? Empire Company?
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No. Lawtons? Lawtons. Not Lawsons, Lawtons. That's
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what I was getting. Lawtons is what it's called
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in the really populated places. Sobeys for the
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East Coast and the Prairies, and Lawton's is
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Ontario and Quebec. That's similar to here, like
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in the Southwest, Kroger. Kroger has name storefronts
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all over, but Fry's is the name of the one in
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the Southwest. Yeah, it's just like they used
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to be. Well, they used to be different companies
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and then Lawton's bought them. Or whoever owns
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Lawton's bought them. And they just didn't change
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any of the store names. Because you can't have
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new grocery stores, people wouldn't go there.
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Yeah, I wanted to go to Lawton's, not fucking
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Sobeys. Exactly. Or Dominion. My mom always shopped
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at Co -op, which is locally owned. I don't think
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there's any... problems with with that one but
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it's all owned by the same people yeah if you
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look up the grocery stores in canada it's crazy
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but the co -op is the cooperative cooperative
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the local cooperative yeah it'd be nice if we
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had like an actual storefront for a farmer's
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market yeah the cooperative isn't really like
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the co -op isn't really a farmer's market so
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much as um Well, it works like a credit union.
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You pay a very small membership fee, and then
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you get dividends every year type thing. Oh,
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yeah. Okay. So it's always owned by somebody
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that actually lives there, but it's also, like,
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community -owned, kind of. Turning products upside
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down is vandalism. Yeah, yeah. It's such a stupid...
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I think it was Americans coming in trying to
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stir the pot but then the like so Karens are
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definitely still a thing but I think Canada like
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the Midwest also has the exact opposite of a
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Karen like those really nice old ladies that
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are so afraid of um offending anyone or causing
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anybody trouble that they're like overly conscious
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of it Would it be a Karen with a C and an I?
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Yeah, or maybe like a Sharon. I picture them
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being Sharon. Sharon is Karen. Yeah, that's a
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good one. Sharon. See, hear that, people? You
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too can ditch your Karen. What's the male one?
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Is it Kevin or Kyle? I still just call them Karens.
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It makes it more funny that way, actually. i
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think so because they're also the ones that really
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don't like being called by a girl's name usually
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oh this is an interesting question that you have
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here what qualities do you consider for greatness
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of xx in boxing that's cool yeah like greatest
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of all time or greatest 130 pounder or whatever
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you're I personally have a couple things that
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kind of just disqualify you that really don't
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have anything to do with boxing. But I think,
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like, if you are well known to beat your wife,
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you might be the best boxer. But you aren't the
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greatest because you're a terrible human being.
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So you're saying that greatness transcends the
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sport? Well... I think you either have to completely
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ignore stuff outside the sport or factor it all
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in. Because a lot of people, when they talk about
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Muhammad Ali, talk about his activism and stuff,
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which is good things. I agree. But if you're
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going to factor in if they're good outside the
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ring, I think you should also factor in if they're
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bad. Yeah, I agree. So either it's a factor in
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whether they're the greatest, Or it's not a factor
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at all. And I hate that a lot of people who say
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Muhammad Ali is the greatest because of things
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in the ring and things outside the ring will
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put somebody like... I can't think of anybody
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off the top of my head that's really terrible.
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But like Errol Spence. Yeah, Tyson Fury or Errol
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Spence. Like Errol was drinking and driving and
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smashed his car at 200 miles an hour. Like poor
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life choices. yeah huh and like where do you
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draw that line if you're factoring it in then
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like does being a normal decent human being give
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you bonus points because lots of people in boxing
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aren't uh no i would say being a normal person
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is doesn't get you bonus points uh simply because
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like if we want to keep with the uh muhammad
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ali analogy he went above and beyond his normal
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circumstance to do good things whereas terence
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crawford is a good example he does a lot for
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his community we just don't hear about it but
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you can see it if you look if you can find it
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if you look for it he does yeah like clothing
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drives food drives like free memberships to the
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to the gyms that he is a part of for anyone who
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wants one. That, to me, is another example of
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going above and beyond. Somebody like Mikey Garcia
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was a pretty average dude. Didn't really care
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for boxing, but he did it because he was good
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at it. And outside of the ring, he just liked
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to drive cars. That's not bonus points. Fair.
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Okay. So, like, not being a fuck -up is neutral.
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Yes. Or I suppose there's, like, mild levels
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of fuck -uppery. That's okay. But, I don't know,
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then you get into, like, the mincing words of
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what's okay, what's acceptable, and what isn't,
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so. Yeah, like. I don't know. Getting a drunk
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in public, but not hurting anybody, probably
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fine. you were just drunk in public and you didn't
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drive home and all that stuff. But, like, those
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small fuck -ups, you probably don't even hear
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about them anyways. David Benavidez popping for
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coke. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I think this
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makes it way harder to make your list. Because
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how much, also, how much, like, are you going
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to dive into people's lives to figure it out?
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I didn't know David Benavidez popped for coke
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because I don't really follow it. He got his
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belt stripped twice. He missed weight once and
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then he popped for coke the second time. Right.
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And those two contributed in large part to him
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not fighting Canelo for a long time. Not to say
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that Canelo didn't turn into a little quacker
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later, which he did. Right. But in the beginning,
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Benavidez screwed himself with poor decisions.
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Even if you are just doing in -the -ring stuff,
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say your personal decision is only in the ring,
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what does missing weight count as? I would call
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that, I would say it's related to in -ring activity
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because making weight is a part of the sport.
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I agree. So if you blow weight, can you be the
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greatest? Depends if it happens a lot or no.
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Because if it happens once, then... you know
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and how close were you right like if you miss
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weight by 0 .2 pounds that's a lot different
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than fucking ryan garcia blowing it by three
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probably on purpose or who was that guy who was
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supposed to fight in japan had a very hispanic
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name that missed by like six pounds like you
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didn't even fucking try it's like jonathan gonzalez
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i think it was yeah something very hispanic you're
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right um there was another jonathan hispanic
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last name on the card as well so i think there's
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two people with the same name actually i think
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they were both jonathan gonzalez fun and then
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the other like if you're doing all time which
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i think is impossible and stupid i think all
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these greatest conversations they can be fun
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if everybody's having fun but when somebody starts
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getting like no there is a right answer not fun
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anymore i wonder who that's a reference to It's
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not just him. It's not just him. People do this.
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It's like, oh, well, how could you even possibly
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say that name? I think I threw out Marvin Hagler
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for whatever weight class that is. And they're
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like, well, he lost to Sugar Ray Leonard and
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blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I don't care.
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I just think he was the best. At 160, that was
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his weight class. And Sugar Ray Leonard moved
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up to 160. So I don't know if you want to. If
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you want to shit on him for anything, you would
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say he lost to that guy moving up. But I don't
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know. That happened to me once with Andre Ward.
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And I said, like, top 10 super middleweights
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and potentially light heavyweights. But I got,
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like, no, he doesn't even make the top 10. And,
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like, okay, name 10. Like, most of these are
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not even real fucking people. yeah but if you
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do all time then it's that argument of like well
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those guys in the whatever like 30s they would
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not compete today they didn't have the nutrition
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or training or dedicated camps like if you just
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took one of them and put them in a ring with
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a mediocre guy today i really think they'd lose
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the sport has evolved sports evolve it wouldn't
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even be close the modernly trained would smoke
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any any classical era boxer of any like even
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like jack johnson who is my favorite old -timey
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heavyweight would get his ass beat by usik or
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uh fucking maybe even joseph parker well yeah
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it's like it's every sport if you put an If you
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threw Bobby Orr into the NHL right now, without
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upgrading him and pretending he grew up with
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the modern training and stuff, Bobby Orr is getting
15:08
fucked. And the goalies are stopping him. He
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couldn't skate as fast. Just look at track and
15:14
field. The records keep going down or up, depending
15:18
on which they are. There are very few things
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that the old guys could do better. because they
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don't have the dedicated life to it because they
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all had day jobs. Then, yeah, you get into too
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much of speculation, too many ifs, where you
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say, okay, we take Jack Johnson and we bring
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him to the modern era and we give him modern
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camps and he's a professional athlete. He does
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not do a single other thing with his life but
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prepare for fights. I mean, he'd probably be
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amazing, but maybe he wouldn't. Because maybe
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he was good because of who he was fighting. Yeah.
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Yeah. Like, maybe he was just naturally a little
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talented, but perhaps didn't have the dedication
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it would take for the modern camps and the weight
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cuts and the, you know. Given his time, his era,
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like the early aughts of the last century, like,
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man, it's not a... It isn't an exaggeration to
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say that he was definitely limited by his race.
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Yeah. He had a lot of trouble that was just trumped
16:30
up nonsense simply because he was a black man
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that was successful. I always get him and the
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other one confused. Is he the one who was arrested
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for transporting white women across state lines
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or whatever the bullshit charge was? Yeah, that's
16:45
the one. Yeah, okay. Because he was taking them
16:49
for moral perversions. Yes, yes. I mean, probably.
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Well, yeah. The law was that he was making them
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into prostitutes. And that's why he got busted.
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That's why they wrote it, supposedly. But it's
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like, no. Man, they just liked him bigger. Sorry,
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buddy. It's not your fault. Not his fault either.
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But I don't know. I just... maybe it's because
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i'm more science oriented but you have to define
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your variables before you have these discussions
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because everybody has different characteristics
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that they're looking for in different ways they're
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thinking about it like i mean the the old uh
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discussions about who's the best weight jumper
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everybody always says pacquiao because he has
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the most belts and the most weight classes but
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Would he go up, like, 50 pounds? I think he went
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from 105 to 154, but he didn't fully make 154.
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So 45, 46? Okay. We'll be nice and just say it's
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50. Yeah, round number. There was more than 50
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pounds between Usyk and Fury when they fought.
18:07
Like, in that fight, there was more than 50 pounds.
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So the person who's beat the most competition
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at, like, different weights, I think is probably
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either Usyk or somebody like Holyfield. That
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wasn't a heavyweight that went into heavyweight.
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Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Does that count
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as weight jumping though? Some people will say
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no, because it's all one weight class since it's
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unlimited, but that's ridiculous. Like that is
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the weight disparity. It should still be a factor
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that should count as a weight jump. Yeah. Somebody
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was being very. aggressive about it on the internet
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the other day, and I was like, no, like, just
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do the fucking math. Like, Usyk has beaten people
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from, and I looked it up, I can't remember the
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weights, but like, I think it was 190 pounds
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to whatever Fury was, 280? Yeah. Like, that's
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a 100 pound difference, 90 pound difference,
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whatever it is. That's a bigger difference than
19:07
anyone Pacquiao ever beat, and Pacquiao has the
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quote -unquote benefit. of starting boxing when
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he was still growing and malnutrition. No, but
19:21
legitimately, Pacquiao from a middle -class family
19:26
never would have had that weight disparity because
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he wouldn't have been 100 pounds at 16. His frame
19:33
was bigger. Yeah. He had famously put rocks.
19:40
into his pockets at weigh -ins because he knew
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he wasn't gonna make the minimum yeah and like
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pacquiao's story is great and i love pacquiao
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i am not trying to take away from him at all
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but if you're doing these like imaginary lists
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you have to kind of define how you're saying
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it pacquiao is the greatest weight class jumper
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maybe because there's other people that have
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gone up and down more Yeah, they just fluctuate
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between a certain range. Yeah, well, and I mean,
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if you're doing ever, you have... Who was it?
20:17
Somebody was four different weight classes champion
20:19
back in the day and defended all four belts.
20:22
Can't remember who it was. See if I can look
20:25
this up real quick. This is when I start making
20:28
up names. Yeah. It's somebody I've heard of.
20:34
Charlie the Butcher Slinger. The meat slinger.
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Is that him? That's good, but that's not him.
20:46
No, this is giving me people who've had four
20:49
weight classes, but not at the same time. Simultaneously?
20:55
I have found that Google is getting stupider,
20:59
I think. Yeah, I was having that issue with the
21:03
AI thing as well. That we had talked about last
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time. Well, and I have found that... Ah, okay.
21:11
Most boxing world titles held simultaneously.
21:14
Henry Johnson. Henry Johnson. Henry R... Henry
21:18
Armstrong? That sounds familiar. Was featherweight,
21:23
welterweight, and lightweight champion all at
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the same time in 1938. So I guess it was three,
21:30
not four. Still a lot. Yeah. Like... But... Does
21:35
that count? Because I don't think they were doing
21:38
weight cuts back then. They didn't really have
21:41
to. Yeah, well, nobody had time. Does it count?
21:51
Yeah, I don't know. It's always... I always have...
21:57
I have as much as I like. I love them. Sorry,
22:01
I'm going to interrupt you. You were making up
22:02
names, but... Henry Armstrong, a .k .a. Homicide
22:07
Hank. Homicide Hank. That's amazing. Willie Thunder
22:12
Road Pepperidge. He's a taxi driver by day. As
22:18
much as I like him, it's my favorite trollish
22:24
point to say, like, oh, he has the most titles.
22:27
No, he didn't. The same. number of people. Other
22:31
people have won titles in six divisions because
22:34
Pacquiao didn't win titles in eight. Right. I
22:39
just love throwing that one out because it makes
22:41
me feel good. Yeah, he skipped a couple. You're
22:45
right. He skipped a couple and two of them were
22:47
secondary titles. Right. And yeah, before you
22:53
come for me, I want you to look into it yourself.
22:56
Do both of us a favor. before i embarrass you
23:00
look it up for yourself and then then and only
23:05
then you have my number but like i don't think
23:09
i don't think they'd even let you try to have
23:12
a belt in three different weight classes and
23:15
defend them all now not in boxing no but greatest
23:20
weight jumper i mean that has to factor in a
23:24
little i think you'd have to in the discussion
23:28
anyway i always wonder you brought up a good
23:33
point of like do we consider in ring or out or
23:35
not out of ring or in ring only and i wonder
23:42
if like i would keep you could do both like they
23:46
would just be really really similar because like
23:49
in in rings in ring only i would have tyson fury
23:53
included in heavyweights for just Top 10 heavyweights
23:57
of the last 50 years. Sure. But if we're including
24:01
out -of -ring antics, then absolutely not. Well,
24:06
if we're including out -of -ring antics, I think
24:09
Mike Tyson gets knocked out too. Absolutely.
24:11
Quicker than Tyson Fury does. Yeah. I think the
24:15
list would end up being quite a bit different.
24:17
A lot of the top 10 guys have problems outside
24:20
of the ring. I'm not a heavyweight person. I
24:23
can't think of many. Tommy Morrison? Oh, geez.
24:26
Yeah. Like, he's probably in the top 10 list
24:29
in the last 50 years. He'd be out. I think that's
24:33
why a lot of people try not to include out -of
24:36
-ring stuff. You end up losing a lot of the top
24:39
guys. A lot of flawed heroes. But if you don't
24:43
include it, I don't think Muhammad Ali is as
24:46
high up as everyone says. He's still up there,
24:51
yeah, but probably not. He's still top 10, but
24:54
I... I don't think strictly in -ring that you're
24:58
going to put him at number one. He has a lot
25:01
of losses, and I don't know. He was beatable.
25:07
He was quite beatable. Yeah, and it's always
25:10
a what -if question of that time he spent in
25:14
prison because he refused to go to Vietnam. Okay,
25:17
so let's do this comparison because I think they
25:21
have... more similarities than people think muhammad
25:25
ali and mike tyson in ring only i think mike
25:30
tyson is better he was more unbeatable he was
25:34
more scary at the time they both had their time
25:36
in prison to like what what if and they both
25:41
fought maybe a little too long and took a bunch
25:43
of losses at the end of their career yeah um
25:46
in ring only I think it does come down to a bit
25:51
of style preference because Ali had a little
25:54
bit more finesse versus the explosive onslaught,
26:00
blitzkrieg type of shit. I don't know which.
26:04
But everybody always puts Ali higher because
26:07
he was a better guy. And I don't think that's
26:09
necessarily wrong. I just think if you're using
26:13
out of ring... Tyson shouldn't be on the fucking
26:16
list at all. Either Tyson. Keep it consistent.
26:19
Tyson Fury or Mike Tyson. But then you lose most
26:24
of the best guys. It's a tough question. It is.
26:27
It's an interesting one. I would have to actually
26:33
sit down and look into people's life to see what
26:39
they were like. I don't know. toyed with the
26:45
idea like oh this was years ago not not recently
26:49
but i had toyed with the idea of running for
26:51
public office and then i thought about it i was
26:53
like wait do i want people digging into my shit
26:56
and stuff that i completely forgot i completely
26:59
forgot about is gonna get you know brought up
27:02
in my face again like i don't think so blackface
27:09
Halloween costumes. Yeah, nothing like that.
27:14
No. It made me think of Trudeau. This actually
27:20
would be a question for the other show, if that's
27:25
the case. Personally, I think you should just
27:29
ignore out -of -ring stuff. Yeah. But I don't
27:34
think it's fair to... Well... I mean, it's all
27:38
just talking and bullshit anyways, but I don't
27:42
like how people elevate people really high because
27:46
of out of bring stuff, but they don't downgrade
27:48
people because of out of bring stuff. Similar
27:52
to our last time when we talked about pound for
27:55
pound where everyone has to move up, but nobody's
27:58
moves down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, so I guess I
28:04
hadn't. talked about pound for pound stuff for
28:07
a long time but yeah you're right everybody thinks
28:10
of it as well if this guy was a heavyweight but
28:12
in my head I always do it the other way because
28:16
I like the lower weight classes better and I
28:19
just every time I try and imagine a heavyweight
28:22
shrunk down to a featherweight they just seem
28:26
so slow and uncoordinated to me not all of them
28:31
but like a lot of them Like, even Tyson Fury,
28:34
if you just made him shorter and changed nothing
28:37
else, he is too slow to fight anyone. Yeah, and...
28:42
And Fury's one of the ones that they say is super,
28:45
like... Limber. Athletic and fast and stuff is
28:49
a heavyweight. But I'm like, yeah, but if you
28:51
actually just take that speed and put it at featherweight,
28:55
people would hit him 50 times before he even
28:57
knew what the fuck happened. I think of someone
28:59
like Artur Beterbiev. who is, of the last 20
29:05
-something years or whatever, he's one of the
29:07
better light heavyweights that we've seen. But
29:09
moving him down to fight, say, Bam Rodriguez.
29:13
Yeah, he's too slow. Everything being equal,
29:16
you just move, you shrink down, better be it.
29:19
And he gets his ass beat. His style lends to
29:23
being pieced up by a guy like Bam perfectly.
29:26
But if you move him up in weight, he fits in
29:29
fine. Because... He hits hard and, you know.
29:34
Yeah, he doesn't rely on athleticism nearly as
29:37
much. This is why the small guys never get credit
29:42
in the pound for pound unless they're getting
29:44
knockouts. Because they're like, oh, well, he's
29:47
got no power. Yeah, but he's got so much speed
29:51
and angles and other stuff. Like, I hate this
29:56
argument that boxing is just about hitting hard.
29:59
Because it's not. Like, if you took Lomachenko
30:03
and made him a heavyweight, he'd kind of look
30:06
like Usyk, probably. And that's working. Usyk
30:11
has shown you don't need one -hit power to run
30:15
a division at the top. Interesting how you had
30:21
mentioned it, because as far as I understand
30:24
it... And this might be different because this
30:27
is like scoring rounds, but it's supposed to
30:29
be like that damage is the most important part.
30:33
Even if the damage is like, so it's like, do
30:37
you hit land three really clean, really damaging
30:41
shots, or do you land 10 that are marginally
30:46
damaging? Like not as nearly as much. Collectively,
30:49
they add up to a lot, but then which one do you
30:53
score for? I mean, I score for the more landed
30:58
punches, usually. If the damage is equal, and
31:03
you land two punches and I land ten punches,
31:07
damage is equal, then I have shown more ring
31:11
generalship, more accuracy, and more effective
31:14
aggression. By landing ten punches, I think.
31:19
Having one... one -hit power is always going
31:23
to be good because you can win by knockout. But
31:28
if you're not knocking people out, effective
31:31
aggression is, like, the next thing. And if you
31:34
have effective aggression, you usually are winning
31:36
the ring generalship. Power versus a bunch of
31:39
smaller, less damaging hits is e -ball versus
31:43
better DM. Yeah, death by a thousand cuts or
31:46
the guillotine. Yeah, like who's the pro box
31:52
guy? Algeria? No, the little Japanese guy fighting
31:58
on pro box who had never, yeah, had never had
32:01
any knockouts, but he gets on pro box and he
32:04
just stops people eventually. Yep. Like, I don't
32:10
know. I think there would, I think if you imagine
32:14
shrinking down the bigger guys. there's been
32:17
too much emphasis on power at the high weight
32:20
classes they would lose yeah they're also not
32:24
used to people throwing that many punches because
32:26
at the higher weight classes you're scared to
32:28
get hit if you can get knocked out by one punch
32:31
like if that's a real threat you don't open up
32:35
as much but at the lower weight classes They're
32:38
not scared of one punch. They're scared of a
32:41
hundred punches. So you can let your hands go
32:45
to start with because the chances of you getting
32:47
knocked out right away are pretty low. Not impossible,
32:51
but pretty low. It's just more fun. The lower
32:54
weight classes are more fun. Yeah, when you're
32:57
scared of getting knocked out. My favorite example
32:59
of this is Mexican -style Triple G when he was
33:05
all come forward pressure. Didn't really care
33:08
if you hit him a few times. Yeah. Because he's
33:11
going to get you with one really good one. The
33:13
one time he didn't do that, though, he did not
33:15
open up himself to any return fire was fighting
33:19
David Lemieux. Because Lemieux could knock a
33:23
bitch out. Yeah. Like, that's the only thing
33:25
he could do, but he was good at it. It was that
33:28
otherworldly... type of power that like deontay
33:31
wilder gervonta davis those very rare that people
33:36
have it yeah i don't know i just there is definitely
33:40
a bias towards the the big guys of course and
33:45
always it's all yeah and everybody's like arguments
33:50
are always well it's more exciting because anyone
33:52
can get knocked out at any time and Well, if
33:57
the big guys fought the little guys, the big
33:59
guys would win. Those are always the two arguments
34:01
people give me when I ask why. And I just, I
34:05
don't like when anybody can get knocked out at
34:08
any point because they're too cautious. I just
34:11
want to see two tiny little men punch each other
34:14
a thousand times. Set the record for most punches
34:19
thrown every other week. Yeah, it's awesome.
34:23
It's way more exciting than the big guys who
34:25
throw like 10 punches around. Yeah. Support for
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37:26
I want to skip the new shit really quick that
37:29
you have listed here. Go down to the other ones.
37:32
I didn't see the Tsuboi, the debut guy. Yeah,
37:37
so he was the very first fight on the broadcast,
37:42
I think. SharksFanAbroad on the Discord was watching.
37:47
I'm pretty sure he said that he saw that one.
37:50
It was his debut, and he looked really good,
37:54
and I should pull up who he fought. Because for
37:57
a debut fight, it was a crazy opponent. He fought...
38:04
A Thai guy who was 14 -3, yeah, 14 -4 now. When
38:10
he fought him, he was 14 -3 -0. Wow, that's actually
38:13
really damn good. For a debut, yeah. And this
38:18
Homoya Suboi knocked him out in the second round,
38:24
I think. Or was it the first? How many rounds
38:27
was the fight? Give me two seconds, I'll grab
38:30
my program. They say everything in Japanese,
38:34
so I'm not sure. I've been keeping all my programs,
38:37
and I filled up a whole box with boxing programs.
38:42
I sent it home with my brother. It was eight
38:46
rounds. Eight? Eight -round debut. Yeah. Who
38:49
the hell is this kid? That is amazing. I have
38:52
no idea. I've never heard of him, but he impressed
38:54
the fuck out of me. He looked really good. I
38:57
know nobody else can see it, but... that's him
39:01
yeah he looks serious he impressed the out of
39:06
me i actually missed that it was his debut because
39:09
again everything's like he's introduced in japanese
39:11
and stuff uh so after the fight i was like holy
39:15
who is this guy like he's great and the discord
39:18
guys are like yeah that was his debut and i was
39:20
like i had to like pull up my program and double
39:23
check you should find the fight yeah i want to
39:26
see this i have a good idea of where i can catch
39:29
it Does ESPN Plus not do rewatches? They have
39:37
it up. That's where I was able to catch the last
39:41
four fights or whatever. Yeah, he was the first
39:45
of the four fights. He was fourth. He's the only
39:50
other one that was broadcast except the world
39:52
titles. I'll have to look again because I don't...
39:57
He really didn't look like he was debuting. No,
40:00
I'm really confused. Because I didn't see any
40:03
debut level people at all. He was the first fight
40:08
on the broadcast, though. Interesting. Okay.
40:12
I don't know if ESPN picks up all of them, though.
40:15
Well, if there's four fights, he's the first
40:18
one. Because there was actually six fights in
40:22
the arena. But he's only got... 37 amateur fights
40:28
and 14 of those are losses. I don't know, man.
40:31
I don't know who this kid is, but I was impressed
40:34
and I think people should look him up. He was
40:37
good. Kyo Gucci. Was it a knockdown? We had already
40:42
started getting into this one on Instagram. Yeah.
40:46
Was it a knockdown? I only saw the replay in
40:50
the arena. But that's the replay. Like, I don't
40:53
think you saw anything different. Probably not.
40:56
I don't think it was a knockdown. He got hit
40:58
with a punch. There was, like, another second.
41:01
And then he missed with a punch and fell. And
41:04
they were falling all over the place. I don't
41:06
know what the fuck was up with those two. Yeah,
41:08
they were slipping a lot. But nobody else slipped.
41:12
Like, it wasn't the ring. No other fighters were
41:15
having trouble. It was those two were just super
41:18
off balance because Ola Squaga had absolute like
41:22
cartoon style swing miss flip around and fall
41:27
on his face too. He did. I remember that. Like
41:31
it looked like fucking Looney Tunes. I'm trying
41:35
to find the knockdown here. I don't remember
41:38
what round or anything. Yeah. While you look
41:41
for it, did you see a close -up picture of Ola
41:44
Sklaga's gloves? No, but when I saw the one that
41:47
you sent, they look really, really cool. Yeah,
41:51
so he had a castle and cherry trees, and his
41:56
gloves were pink. So I just thought they were
41:59
the coolest gloves I've ever seen. I really like
42:02
that he's leaning into the princess nickname.
42:05
His t -shirts he had during the... press conference
42:10
or the like open workout looked really cool too
42:13
i kind of want to see if i can figure out how
42:15
to buy a t -shirt from him uh he i think lives
42:18
in japan now so does he yeah nice um because
42:23
he's got the a for anthony and then the o kind
42:27
of wraps around it and the front of the o is
42:29
a princess tiara very cool i think it looks awesome
42:33
they were talking about it on the broadcast he
42:36
got the nickname from uh his previous coach or
42:43
his previous camp or whatever and it was because
42:46
the way he color coordinates everything uh he
42:49
likes to get his nails done eyebrows waxed he's
42:54
a metro metro kind of guy and i just i like it
42:59
he seems very likable i was having trouble trying
43:02
to figure out who to cheer for in this one yeah
43:04
those gloves were really cool He also apologized
43:09
that the pink dye had washed out of his hair
43:12
a little bit before the fight. He's like, my
43:15
hair isn't very pink, I'm sorry. Which I think
43:18
confused the Japanese people. Do you know which
43:25
round it is? I do not. BoxRec has that, right?
43:29
No, they're not showing it to me, if they do.
43:31
Really? Yeah. They usually say knockdowns and
43:35
when. I'm logged in and everything too. It's
43:38
usually why it doesn't show. Yeah. That's because
43:42
it wasn't a fucking knockdown. Maybe it got overturned.
43:47
You know? Wouldn't have changed anything. It
43:50
didn't because they reviewed it in the ring.
43:54
Yeah, it's not showing. No, it's not. Somebody
43:59
will have it. Yeah, I'm checking the scorecards.
44:03
It's the 11th. I knew it was late in the fight.
44:05
Yeah, that's why I was fast -forwarding from...
44:07
I was in the 10th when I stopped. All right.
44:13
Did I... You must have skipped it. Yeah. There
44:17
it is. There. Wow. The ref's in the way there.
44:21
Yeah. Not a good angle. I think they probably
44:25
have a replay in between the two rounds. They
44:27
will. I just want to see it again from here.
44:31
So this right hand lands. The left hand misses.
44:34
Or the other way around. And Kiyaguchi misses
44:37
with a punch. Yeah, he missed with the right
44:39
hand. Alright, replay time. Yeah, I don't understand
44:42
why these guys were falling so much. It was almost
44:46
like their feet... Well, it's like their feet
44:48
were clashing. Even though they're both orthodox.
44:53
Alright, so he threw out a little pawing jab.
44:56
Yeah. Another one. Leaps in. It hits him with
45:02
the left. Misses with the right. And then Kiyoguchi
45:08
misses with a right. And he's off balance and
45:11
that's why he goes down. I really don't think
45:14
that's a knockdown. The punch that landed just
45:16
before he did it, though, that's got to be why
45:19
they justified it as a knockdown. That's why
45:21
they justified it. But the punch lands. It doesn't
45:24
initiate the knockdown, or it doesn't cause it.
45:27
It doesn't cause the knockdown. Yeah. And it
45:30
doesn't land while he's falling. Yeah, he's straight
45:31
up slipped. This was not a knockdown. Man, that
45:35
is tough. That sucks for the judges. That is
45:39
a tough one. And they announced that they were
45:42
reviewing it, and I was like, okay, it'll be
45:46
overturned. And they showed that replay, and
45:48
I was like, excellent, overturn coming, and then
45:50
the knockdown stood. It turned out it didn't
45:53
matter on the cards, but that was not a knockdown.
45:57
I don't think it was a knockdown. I guess it
45:59
mattered in that it would have been a majority
46:01
win instead of a unanimous decision, but it didn't
46:05
change the outcome of the fight. Yeah. Man, that
46:11
one is rough. Well, I think something very similar
46:17
happened to Ola Squaga a few rounds ago, right?
46:19
Like, a punch landed and then he missed and slipped.
46:23
Yeah. Because it happened like six times in this
46:26
fight, and I do not understand why, because nobody
46:29
else was slipping. Oh, that's right. Actually,
46:32
now that you put it that way. Like, the canvas
46:35
wasn't the problem, because... I think there
46:39
was one slip in one of the other fights. And
46:42
the main event had no slips that came after.
46:45
So it wasn't like water on the ring or anything.
46:48
That's what I thought it was. It was like water
46:50
getting on the shoes. And then when you go onto
46:53
the advertisements, people always slip on the
46:56
advertisements. But there wasn't any advertisements,
46:59
was there? Just the one that you next in the
47:01
middle. That was it. But that's not where they
47:03
were slipping. They were slipping over on this.
47:06
side like halfway between corners like right
47:10
it was really weird and that that one that was
47:15
counted and knocked down was in the the one corner
47:18
but like i don't think it looks like the ring
47:21
was wet or anything no it didn't man that is
47:25
doo -doo yeah like i said it ended up not really
47:29
mattering but at the time i was pissed i was
47:32
yelling it's um It's hard, because I am usually
47:39
of the mind that if you get tagged and then slip,
47:44
or you slip and you get tagged as you're slipping,
47:46
it's a knockdown, whether or not you slipped.
47:50
Right. But if he'd have gotten hit while he was
47:54
going down, it's a knockdown. But he didn't.
47:58
Yeah, he got hit just before the knockdown sequence
48:02
began. Yeah, but... That punch did not cause
48:06
the knockdown. He was standing after that. I've
48:11
seen situations where, like this, and then the
48:16
punch that makes it a knockdown had nothing to
48:20
do with the guy going down. It just so happened
48:22
that he landed it right before he fell. Right.
48:27
I mean, it's not the most atrocious call I've
48:29
ever seen, but... That's a tough one to make.
48:33
Like, you have to make that on the fly, too.
48:35
Yeah, I'm not saying the ref did it wrong, but
48:38
I thought the review would overturn it. I thought
48:41
you were talking about planning for their public
48:44
execution. No, no. I was just worked up because
48:49
the fights were really good. The fights were
48:51
really good. You know what wasn't good? Taraji.
48:55
Fucking ref stoppage in the last one. Man, they
48:58
saved Taraji. They saved his ass. They bailed
49:02
him out. Yeah, they did. So bad. He was behind.
49:07
He had to have been. He was behind, except he
49:10
wasn't really on the judges' scorecard. Oh, yeah,
49:13
right. But his corner told him you have to get
49:18
a knockout. He came out in the 12th looking for
49:21
a knockout. He was up on two cards. Yeah, I told
49:25
you that. It's fucking madness. It makes no sense.
49:28
Akui was winning that fight. They were robbing
49:31
my boy either way, let's be honest. But Karadji
49:36
came out looking for the knockout, which was
49:39
great. Like, that was all exciting. But Akui
49:43
had taken some damage, but he hadn't been knocked
49:46
down at all in this fight. And the ref stopped
49:49
it before he was knocked down. It's not... How
49:54
do I put it? It's the last round. He's got a
49:57
minute and a half. Let him take the knockdown.
50:00
He's not going to take that much more damage
50:03
if you wait until he falls on his ass to call
50:05
it. He wasn't up against the ropes. No. It's
50:09
not like he was up against the ropes getting
50:11
beat up and hanging there. He was standing. It
50:16
made no sense. Let him get knocked down at least.
50:19
Like, this is the most clear you gotta save the
50:22
favorite I have ever seen in Japan. And poor
50:26
Akui, he cried so much in the ring. They did
50:30
the, like, cover his head with a towel. He was
50:33
just bawling his eyes out. I would be just out
50:37
of a fit of rage. Yeah, well, so I think in Japan
50:42
they don't yell and get angry. They do the, I'm
50:48
so angry, I'm going to cry. Yeah, the man tears.
50:52
Yeah, yeah. It's funny. It's much more acceptable
50:56
here for men to cry than for men to yell. Fellas,
51:00
it's completely fine to cry. There's nothing
51:02
wrong with it. I wasn't making fun of them. I'm
51:05
just saying that there's a cultural difference.
51:06
No, I'm not telling you. I'm telling the boys.
51:08
Like, get the fucking touch. That's why she doesn't
51:11
text you back. Because you're an emotional fucking
51:13
retard. But yeah, no, I thought that was a terrible
51:16
fucking stoppage. I thought that was atrocious.
51:20
I felt so bad for him. Yeah. Stop in the 11th.
51:23
Okay, so we're right here. 54, 3, 2. No, no,
51:28
he gets stopped in the 12th. Oh, does he? That's
51:30
right. Yeah. 12 rounds completed. I'm not very
51:33
smart. I just, because Taraji came out swinging
51:38
in the 12th, which is what he had to do. I was
51:41
sitting there like, he needs a knockout. Somebody
51:44
was like, yeah, he needs at least a knockdown.
51:47
And I was like, I don't think a knockdown will
51:49
do it. Although the crooked fucking judges, it
51:52
would have. But I think it's right around a minute
51:55
and a half. So, yeah, Tarashi's really bringing
52:00
the heat. Oh, and he's winning this round for
52:03
sure. Yeah, he is. But winning this round alone,
52:06
that wasn't going to be enough. Well, it was.
52:10
Well, yeah, when you got the right people in
52:12
your pocket. I felt so bad for Akui. Like, we're
52:17
at 145, and he's throwing back a little here.
52:20
Like, still losing, but he's landing punches.
52:23
He's covering. He's defending. Ducking and weaving
52:26
a little. Oh, come the fuck on. Right? What?
52:31
What? Like, he was ducking and weaving, and the
52:35
ref stopped it. Just because he got tagged while
52:37
he was weaving doesn't mean that he was, like,
52:40
out. Or anything? He was not out on his feet.
52:43
No, he wasn't. There's people all over the internet
52:45
going, he's out on his feet. He was actively
52:47
defending himself. Just not, didn't have his
52:50
hands up. I think the ref misread it. Thought
52:54
that he, like the hands were down. Even though
52:57
the hands were down to, he was kind of, it was
53:00
a little showboaty putting his hands down thinking,
53:02
I'm just going to head weave my way away from
53:06
Taraji. And he got tagged anyway, multiple times.
53:09
I think that's why. Sure, but he was standing,
53:13
actively defending himself. It's a bullshit stoppage.
53:17
It's a bullshit. Top to bottom, it's bullshit.
53:19
I'm really trying to figure out what they could
53:22
have possibly been thinking. Because it doesn't
53:25
make sense. The ref was thinking that the favorite
53:27
was losing. And that he has a big next fight
53:31
lined up. And he's got to save that next fight.
53:35
Is what he was thinking. There's no reasonable
53:39
explanation. What, he fights Ola Squaga next?
53:42
To unify titles? He called out Bam. Oh. I don't
53:47
think that's going to happen. He called out Bam.
53:50
Moving up from 112 to 115, it's not terrible.
53:55
But, I mean, like, Taraji's the name. Nobody
53:58
knows who Akui is. Of course. So, Taraji's getting
54:02
a little bit of international fame, and they
54:04
wanted to... rescue that i think keep it intact
54:08
and instead job his ass on on espn for everyone
54:13
to see that was a terrible stoppage it was i
54:16
don't care what anybody says akui was not that
54:19
damaged it was he was actively defending himself
54:22
like even watching the replay you were like this
54:25
is where they stop it like it actually looks
54:29
worse on the replay than it did yeah that shit
54:33
does not make sense It was terrible. I felt bad
54:37
for him. Yeah. He looks like a goofball. Taraji
54:42
or Akui? Taraji. Taraji's got a weird style.
54:48
Somebody in Discord was just super rude. They're
54:51
like, his face is terrible. I was like, what's
54:53
that even mean? What does that have to do with
54:56
anything? Yeah, I don't know. That was a jobbing.
55:03
My man, that sucks, dude. Fuck. I felt bad for
55:07
Kiyokuchi, too, but that was at least competitive
55:10
and decently scored. He was the WBA champ. Akui.
55:16
Yeah. Yeah. It's not listed on BoxRec, so I always
55:19
forget. Oh, yeah. No, this was a unification,
55:23
wasn't it? Dang. Should be fighting Ola Squaga
55:26
next. I think Ola Squaga beat stuff. Fuck. Out
55:31
of Taraji, I'm not going to lie. Taraji's there
55:34
to be hit. All the time. Yeah. Yeah, I don't
55:38
know. I was tore up about that stoppage. I was
55:41
not happy. Well, we are at an hour -ish, just
55:47
under. If you prefer to hit us up on social media,
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yourself. Intro and outro by Middle of Nowhere
56:59
Beats. And for more shows like the one you just
57:00
listened to, go to lvxmedia .net. Anything more
57:04
for the old outline here? Not unless you want
57:10
to talk about the press conference. I didn't
57:13
see it. You didn't see it? No. We don't have
57:16
to talk about it very much, but Tio came in fucking
57:21
crazy this time. Tio had a giant sword he was
57:25
carrying around. He was wearing a vest with no
57:27
shirt underneath and a cowboy hat and like a
57:32
belt buckle. And at one point he stood up and
57:34
walked a little ways away from the table because
57:36
someone else was talking. But like you could
57:38
hear him in the background on the mic. Look at
57:41
my belt buckle. I got a huge cock. I got a huge
57:44
dick. And I'm like, what are you doing, Tio?
57:47
And what does your belt buckle have to do with
57:49
any of this? And then he... The belt buckle's
57:54
his symbol. Yeah. Who's Tio fighting? Barbossa?
57:58
I think? He slapped him at the face -off. Like,
58:02
just full from the ass slapped him. That's funny.
58:07
And poor Jose Ramirez is just sitting there like,
58:09
what the fuck? I am the only sane person on this
58:13
stage. What have I gotten myself into? Yeah.
58:17
Haney's dad was being crazy and giving... Who's
58:23
the moderator guy? Him something, I think. Anyways,
58:27
the guy who was running the thing, he gave him
58:32
shit for introducing Garcia like normal instead
58:37
of being like... PD cheat Brian Garcia. And the
58:43
only one that was really kind of surprising was
58:46
Roley didn't say anything. But he looked just
58:51
kind of sad. But yeah, no, the full crazy was
58:55
out on the second press conference. So I guess
58:58
I'll have to watch the next one. I feel so bad
59:00
for Jose Ramirez, though. He's just like, what
59:03
the fuck is this? Oh, Barbossa got slapped, so
59:07
he's going to come out acting up next time, too.
59:09
Well, Barbossa was acting up, like, in a normal
59:12
way, though. He was yelling shit and, like, insulting
59:16
people. But, I mean, Tio came in full crazy.
59:21
It was madness. Excellent. Yeah, well, everybody's
59:27
debating. So full crazy usually means Tio's going
59:32
to fight well, but his opponent isn't that good.
59:35
So mid opponents means Tio fights like shit.
59:38
Oh, so which one do we get? The mapping is difficult
59:43
on this one. So, I don't know. I think if Barbossa
59:47
beats Tio, his career might be done. For his
59:52
sake? If he's going to continue to let his shit
59:55
go unchecked like that, then yeah, it should
59:59
be. And hopefully he'll get the help he needs.
1:00:03
Yeah, I mean, I guess I shouldn't be laughing
1:00:05
at T .O., but man, no shirt under the vest. Yelling,
1:00:12
look at my dick. It's hilarious. That's like
1:00:17
classic manic episode behavior. Yeah. you should
1:00:26
go check out i think i will i think i'll have
1:00:27
to check it out now it was kind of funny i listened
1:00:31
to it at work and i was like because somebody
1:00:34
said teo went crazy and i was like okay but like
1:00:37
can i have the video and listen on headphones
1:00:40
and not get in trouble at work and they're like
1:00:42
i don't know teo's running around with no shirt
1:00:45
on like swinging a sword well you watch fights
1:00:49
with all the time don't you Yeah, and then somebody
1:00:54
asked me why I was always watching half -naked
1:00:56
men at work. I didn't tell you this? Yeah, you
1:00:59
did. I thought, like, it's boxing. That's what
1:01:02
they do. Yeah. That's how it is. My boss doesn't
1:01:07
seem to care, but the girl beside me, I had to
1:01:10
explain that it was a sport and not just me watching
1:01:13
half -naked men. Which, if you were, like, mind
1:01:16
your own fucking business. Yeah, pretty much.
1:01:20
Living in Japan, my Instagram has been slowly
1:01:24
infested with the Asian thirst traps. And I'm
1:01:27
not mad about it. Some of those videos are fucking
1:01:31
impressive. What those guys will do to get clicks.
1:01:36
Like there was one guy, ripped ass Asian dude
1:01:40
with no shirt on, riding a horse, shooting arrows
1:01:44
in slow motion. And I was like, yes. This is
1:01:47
what Instagram was made for. Yeah. That is objectively
1:01:51
really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then they do, like,
1:01:56
back shots so you can see all the muscles pull
1:01:58
the bow. I was like, yes. I will like this and
1:02:02
interact with it so I get more of this. Yeah.
1:02:08
Well, that's going to do it for the side piece.
1:02:11
Oh, yeah. Are we sticking with that name? Yeah,
1:02:14
I guess, until something better comes up. Okay,
1:02:17
so I was thinking very hard. The only thing,
1:02:21
and the reference is even older, so probably
1:02:23
not going to work, but do you remember HBO Boxing
1:02:26
After Dark? Yeah. It's where the Gaddy vs. Ward
1:02:32
fights were broadcast. Yeah. So for me, it doesn't
1:02:38
work for you, but for me, we record at like 9
1:02:42
a .m. so besides boxing before brunch and it's
1:02:49
not dark for me either so okay yeah boxing before
1:02:54
dark even that that might work boxing before
1:02:57
dark uh i mean boxing after dark looking at it
1:03:04
looks like it's available I think Before Dark
1:03:07
is funnier, though. Yeah. Actually, let me check
1:03:12
that one just to be sure. Nope. Nope, it's not.
1:03:17
All right, Boxing Before Dark. That's what we're
1:03:19
going with. If you want to change it from Side
1:03:23
Piece. I still think Side Piece is funny, but...
1:03:25
It's, um... It's fine. It's just, like, finding
1:03:33
a... Like, I have the Pauly Malignaggi video
1:03:36
that I can put into the intro. Yeah. If I were
1:03:41
to do boxing before dark. We'd have to record
1:03:45
our own. I'd have to make up. I'd have to find
1:03:49
something. I've also been thinking of, like,
1:03:52
what kind of graphic do I want? Oh, yeah. Side
1:03:55
piece graphic could be scandalous. I was thinking,
1:03:59
honestly. Ring girls? No, pastel color, saved
1:04:04
by the bell, sort of late 80s, early 90s type
1:04:08
of radical graphics. Nice. So I was thinking
1:04:14
that. Fair, yeah. I don't know. If anybody has
1:04:21
any suggestions, they should hit up the Boxing
1:04:25
B -Sides hotline. For sure. I am open to all
1:04:29
of the suggestions. All right. I listened to
1:04:35
the first one we recorded, and I do like the
1:04:40
intro, the side piece intro. Yeah, it is pretty
1:04:42
good. You know, we could keep the side piece
1:04:44
intro and then still call ourselves Boxing Before
1:04:48
Dark. That's true. And we could call ourselves
1:04:50
Boxing Side Piece as well. Call ourselves whatever
1:04:53
the fuck we want. Yeah, fuck it. Side piece before
1:04:57
dark? We have nicknames. The before dark, yeah,
1:05:02
the order is important there because the before
1:05:04
dark side piece just sounds cheap. Before dark
1:05:08
side piece? Side piece before dark? Yeah, the
1:05:11
side piece that you see before it gets dark and
1:05:14
you go see your real side piece. The like third
1:05:17
side piece that isn't important enough. The Tuesday
1:05:22
afternoon side piece. Not the A squad. the b
1:05:29
squad hey all right we are out of here