Latest / The Virtual Couch / Navigating Life's Curveballs: Mackie Overbay on Hashimoto's, Health Challenges, and Embracing Uncertainty

Transcript

Navigating Life's Curveballs: Mackie Overbay on Hashimoto's, Health Challenges, and Embracing Uncertainty · The Virtual Couch

• 0:02
  Hey everybody, welcome to episode 428 of The Virtual Couch and episode 20 of
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  The Mind, The Mirror, and Me. I am your host, Tony Overbay.
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  I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified mindful habit coach,
• 0:14
  writer, speaker, husband, father of four.
• 0:16
  And please go to TonyOverbay.com, sign up for the newsletter or visit me on
• 0:21
  social media at virtual.couch on Instagram, at virtualcouch on TikTok,
• 0:25
  Tony Overbay licensed marriage and family therapist on Facebook and so on and so forth.
• 0:30
  Now, why the crossover episode today?
• 0:33
  Well, soon you'll be listening to an interview with my daughter, McKinley and myself.
• 0:37
  And I really want to encourage you to stick around for this one.
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  McKinley or Mackie, as she goes by has had a pretty incredible 2024,
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  but not in the way you might think like, oh my gosh, every second of it's been
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  just amazing and wonderful.
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  She'll go into a lot of detail tell during the interview, but here's a little quick backstory.
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  So in February, on a Sunday afternoon, I think it was, while my wife and I were
• 1:00
  in the process of putting our house up for sale for the first time in over 20
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  years, Mackie called and she was not doing well.
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  And she had recently learned about a pretty serious diagnosis,
• 1:10
  an autoimmune disorder that we'll talk about in the interview.
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  And at that time, she was struggling. She was living alone in Utah.
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  She had decided to move back home and then she was going to relocate to Arizona
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  with us and try and just get a handle on all of the different things happening in her life.
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  She had gone out and tried to go out on her own as a cosmetologist.
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  It had a little bit of success, but that was pretty brutal of trying to drum up her own clients.
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  And then just her health just did not, she did not feel good.
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  And she just really thought what is wrong with me?
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  So finding Finding out about this autoimmune disorder was helpful,
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  but it was also overwhelming and intimidating.
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  And over the last year or so prior to finding out about that,
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  she had just, she had put on a lot of weight.
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  She had become pretty lethargic and she's been pretty open about that on the
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  Mind the Mirror Me podcast.
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  And I'm not sure if I addressed this in the interview, but we really were just worried about her.
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  And I believe she opens up about how she was feeling and again, not doing very well.
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  But I had asked her on that afternoon, that conversation, if she really wanted
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  me to just jump on a plane, fly out to Utah and drive her home. And she kept saying no.
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  But in that moment, I guess I had my own little epiphany and it connects to
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  my emotional baseline theory that when life is really hard, you still have to
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  make all of your daily decisions.
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  But sometimes your baseline of emotions is so low that you can't really reach
• 2:34
  or access the tools that you need.
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  So when somebody offers help, you may not feel able to say yes,
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  or like you're deserving of saying yes, even though you need it.
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  You may not even know that that is really what you need.
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  And it's a tricky balance because you really want to respect somebody's autonomy,
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  their independence, their boundaries.
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  But sometimes it does feel like you need to step in because this person may
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  not be in a position where they can make good decisions because that baseline is so low.
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  And in the world of differentiation, David Schnarch talks about this concept
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  of constructing your crucible, where you reach gridlock with somebody,
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  often a partner, but it could be anybody, where neither of you can validate
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  yourselves or each other. And so you really are at this standstill.
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  And that's what I felt like Mackie and I were. She's saying,
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  I don't know what to do. I am not good. And I'm saying, do you want me to come
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  out and get you? And she's saying no.
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  And so neither of us felt very good about that. And Schnarch says that gridlock
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  is where you then construct this crucible.
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  You extract your unresolved personal issues from the situation and you confront
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  them as an act of integrity.
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  And sometimes that means owning your projections and that projection is okay.
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  Well, she's, she's not going to want me to do this, or she's going to be really upset.
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  And so I'm owning that, that that is a projection of mine. And if I just let
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  that projection take over,
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  then I'm not even going to give whatever it is a chance to happen,
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  whether it is me going out there or just trying to be there for her.
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  Because what if she really isn't in a position to make a good decision for herself?
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  So owning your projections, even when the other person doesn't reciprocate,
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  you focus on yourself, not the relationship and not on changing the other person.
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  So I think you can maybe see where this can get really, really tricky because
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  Schnarch talks about constructing this crucible after you are in a pretty good
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  place where you are becoming very differentiated.
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  And that he has these four points of balance that I've been talking about on
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  so many of the podcasts over the last few months.
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  But that first one, just you have this solid but flexible sense of self,
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  knowing who you are without needing others to tell you and learning how to not
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  require or live for external validation.
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  And that then leads to the second point of balance where you have this quiet
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  mind, this calm heart where you're able to self-soothe and you're able to manage your own anxiety,
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  which then leads to this third point of balance, which is a more grounded response,
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  which means not overreacting, not underreacting, but really starting to show up.
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  And then his fourth point of balance, it is owning your own part of a situation,
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  not projecting it onto somebody else, not saying that, yeah,
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  well, I behave this way because you did this, but owning my part and then taking
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  responsibility for change.
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  Because so often people can then say, no, my bad. But if you say,
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  well, you're bad, what? Tell me more about that. They're saying, no, I said it was my bad.
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  Or I run into this a lot where people in a session might say,
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  no, you know what? I really understand now.
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  I just need to really, I just really need to be more serious about my efforts
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  of whether it's turning away from unhealthy coping mechanisms or trying to show
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  up different in a marriage.
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  And they can say that. And it does feel good. And I believe in that moment,
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  that person really does believe that this is what I need to do.
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  And the person listening might even say, okay, cool. Cool. Sounds like you're
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  really taking this serious.
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  But then the person feels so good about what they just said and how the other
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  person's reacting that do they wake up the next day and do they start their meditation practice?
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  Do they start journaling? Do they go to the gym? Do they read the self-help
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  book? Do they schedule therapy? Or do they feel like, no, I actually feel pretty good now.
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  And is that just a way to alleviate that discomfort? So you have to get to this
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  place of being fairly well differentiated to then act in this position of creating this crucible.
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  And the reason why is because you have to be able to, and I got to come up with
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  a better phrase, but it's almost as if, okay, I am willing to die on this hill
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  of what I am willing to do.
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  And I felt like this was one of those moments for me. Was I willing to die on
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  this hill of Mackie potentially being upset with me?
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  If I got on a plane, flew to Utah and said, Hey, I'm coming to get you because
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  I love you and I care about you and I'm worried about you. and I worry that
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  you may not be in a position to make the right, a good decision right now.
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  And I realized that I was, that was a place that I was willing to stake my claim.
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  I was willing to face the discomfort, even if it meant that I flew right out
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  there and had to turn right back around and fly home if she really didn't want my help.
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  And I couldn't complain about, do you know how much this cost me?
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  Or no, I'm owning that. That was a me thing.
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  So a few hours later, I was at the airport on a flight to Utah.
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  Mackie picked me up and we drove across Nevada back to California through the early morning hours.
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  She ended up just dropping me right off at my therapy office the next morning.
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  And I did a nice full day of sessions and she was at home and that began her healing journey.
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  And during that drive, we had so many important conversations and Mackie,
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  it didn't fix everything right away, but I think it was the right thing to do.
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  And I'll admit that I was worried of what her commitment level would be like
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  because she felt so down about these things that she was finding out and what
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  her last year or so had been. And that's on me because she has proven me wrong
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  in the very best possible way.
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  Spoiler alert, but she lost the 60 pounds. She transformed her life.
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  She's currently exploring a healthy relationship and she's back to her bubbly
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  self. Her humor is back in full force. She's exercising.
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  She's eating right. She's doing a lot of things that I have not even been able
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  to do myself in thinking that I've got certain things.
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  I'm in a good place in certain things. I mean, the eating alone has been fascinating
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  watching her and her discipline. And we talk about that in the interview.
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  So if you are in the midst of feeling like life is just too much,
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  please, please listen to this interview.
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  Mackie talks about so many things that she did to make changes and how difficult
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  those things were and how some things maybe weren't as difficult as she thought they would be.
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  And if you're a parent, a partner, a loved one of somebody going through difficult
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  times and you don't know what to
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  do, I think this would be helpful as well because we touched on that too.
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  Just a quick heads up, there are a couple of moments where I think Mackie's
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  mic is a little bit low, but hopefully that's mostly been addressed in post-production.
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  But overall, the audio is good.
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  And please check out the video on the Virtual Couch YouTube channel and hit
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  subscribe, of course, and give it a watch because there's a part of the interview,
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  that just cracked me up. I think it really needs to be seen.
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  And don't forget to follow our podcast, The Mind, The Mirror, and Me.
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  And then check out some of the earlier episodes on there too,
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  because there are some pretty incredible ones.
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  So thanks for your patience. Thanks for taking the time to listen.
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  I really appreciate each and every one of you. I really do.
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  And with all that said, let's get to my interview with my daughter, McKinley Overbay.
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  Music.
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  I don't either. Is that your opening joke? No. I'm going to edit that out. I don't.
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  What are we doing here? Welcome back. It's been a long time.
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  I don't even want to. I haven't even looked because I think it's been longer
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  than I think it has. And I don't want to feel that.
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  That sense of failure. Oh, it is not failure, Mackie.
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  Welcome back to episode of The Virtual Couch and episode of The Mind, The Mirror, and Me.
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  Exactly. I'm your host. No, if we're on The Virtual Couch, yeah,
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  it depends. Dueling hosts.
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  But it's been a while. We're broadcasting from a new location.
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  We got both our mics working. yeah that's kind of exciting both of our mics
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  are working and we are in arizona,
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  and you may hear dogs and or a baby right outside the office door try to figure out which one is.
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  Um i do that i was gonna say this is your this is gonna be your show you prepared
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  some things you posted an amazing post yesterday on the social medias and i
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  felt bad because you said Oh, did you see the post?
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  And I have, he said, no, I've kind of been absolutely not.
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  I am. I don't go to the social media very often, but yet that's really good. I don't know.
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  It was better. Well, I'm not saying it like getting a hero, a hero,
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  getting a trophy, a hero sandwich or a gold star or trophy.
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  You want a hero sandwiches? Don't you really? I can go on a kid.
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  Yeah, I know. I know it's a sandwich. I don't know what it is.
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  Do you want to look at that? Do we look at the camera? Do we look at each other?
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  I don't know. I don't either. It
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  has been a little while. But we moved to Arizona, what, three months ago?
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  Something like that. And I have been
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  negligent in my own consistency of podcasting. I've talked about that.
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  I put out an episode or two of all the different ones, Virtual Couch,
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  Wake Up Narcissism, Love ADHD, and we haven't put one of these out,
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  but I've been so inconsistent and I always like to pride myself on consistency.
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  But you're always yelling at me about it. Screaming at the top of my lungs.
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  So I've been poking you for quite a while saying, hey, do you want to do a podcast?
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  You're like get out of here old man whoa no right
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  and then finally you're ready to oh but
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  we started with the yeah i'm not trying to say i'm so cool i
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  don't go on social media i get this i get a weird vibe here
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  i do here i am talking about dealing with discomfort and stuff
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  but then i don't know i get i i think i
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  get a little uncomfortable with thinking i should be doing more or better
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  but then i missed a really cool post of yours talk about
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  that that's a good way to lead it in what was it
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  hurt my feelings i i kept checking to see i'm sorry you feel that way about
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  doing the no it was a post about my disease you know what didn't we record one
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  we recorded one i don't think we ever put it no it's one of the lost episodes
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  when you found out about your disease yeah i'm diseased.
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  But i'm okay maybe tell us about this disease tell us maybe tell them yeah back
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  it up okay You're just diving in.
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  I've done my work. Now it's up to you. You carry it.
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  If people have listened to our previous episodes, we put one out.
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  I could not tell you how long ago.
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  That was called Your Body is the Least Interesting Thing About You. Yeah.
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  The overall concept was what? Your body is the least interesting thing about
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  you. Okay. Is that what we're doing?
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  No, but we talked about, I went there and listened to it because I honestly
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  couldn't remember what we talked about.
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  And I was scared that then I would say things today that wouldn't,
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  that would just completely contradict.
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  Oh, right. And be like, that actually doesn't make sense.
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  But we basically just talked about your body being the least interesting thing about you. Okay.
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  But we talked about like your worth not being tied to your physical appearance.
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  I remember this. Your size, your shape, that you're more than your body.
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  And we talked about just like being true to who you are on the inside.
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  We talked a lot about how in high school I feel like I wouldn't answer questions
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  truthfully because I was too... Yes. I didn't tell people my favorite food because
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  I was embarrassed or my favorites. Like we talked about that,
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  like just being who you are.
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  Yeah. I know that this one did pretty well because I had people telling me,
• 13:23
  is that one the one we talked about?
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  Is that the one where we talked about the like going to a movie and worrying
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  what the other person. Yes. That one got I talked about a lot.
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  Yeah, that was that one. So if you haven't listened to it, listen to it.
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  It was I liked it. Me too. Like it was one of our good ones.
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  But basically, the gist was just like about loving yourself and that your worth
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  is not tied to anything, but especially your body. But you are enough.
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  Blah, blah. You kept throwing in you are enough. Oh, enough.
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  Enough. Because we were talking Barbie movies. That's so funny.
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  I mean, at the time I thought I'll never stop saying Kenuff.
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  And when you just said that, I'm like, why did I say that? What does that even mean?
• 14:01
  Kave, I almost want you to like get to the part where why is it so significant
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  now that we're talking about it and this post on the social medias and all that?
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  Yeah, so I can. So everything genuinely I did go back and listen to and everything
• 14:15
  I said in that episode and that you said in that episode still stands true. I still stand by it.
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  100%. Okay. Like everything we said was legit. Yeah.
• 14:27
  But since then, I have lost 55 pounds. I was going to say, let's do a drum roll. Oh, sorry. 55 pounds.
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  Five pounds. That's like both our dogs combined and a sack of flour or something.
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  I've lost that. Yeah. I found it, everybody.
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  Thank you. So my body looks a lot different and I feel a lot different than
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  I did when I was talking about that.
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  Which for whatever reason then just feels like i feel like i have a lot of new
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  thoughts yeah perspectives about everything that has to do with all of this
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  so i won't talk about it but also,
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  because we kind of like accidentally scrapped that disease yeah nobody knows
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  why and so i feel like i want to hit that too and i did when i posted what i posted yesterday okay.
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  I asked, or I put a little question box up if anyone has any questions,
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  because I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people about the weight
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  loss journey and the health stuff and whatever.
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  And you show me, you got a lot of, you got a lot of, you got a lot. I was impressed.
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  Because everyone struggles. Yeah. With all the things all the time.
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  Yeah. And when you're vulnerable, people. They respond.
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  Respond and it's tender and nice. Yeah. But so if I'm hearing you correctly,
• 15:45
  though, and I think I'm excited to hear this because it's your dad and as somebody
• 15:47
  that's been along watching you,
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  that's the funny thing where sometimes I don't even want to point out what I'm
• 15:53
  noticing because I don't want you to think that I thought that you didn't look good before.
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  Or but some of the things that you've
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  done that have so impressed me are honestly we we go out to
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  eat a fair amount as a family maybe too much and then
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  we moved to to a new new land and we're
• 16:09
  trying out the new restaurants all that stuff and you have not you
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  don't cheat i know it's wild to me and what i just want to know did you ever
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  did you know you would be successful at doing this weight loss journey okay
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  because i've been trying to well yeah i feel like yeah totally so i don't even
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  know okay so basically i have an autoimmune disease called hashimoto's.
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  And that led to hypothyroidism. And so that's what I got diagnosed with a couple of months ago.
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  And prior to getting diagnosed, I basically, I seriously feel like it was two
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  or three years where I was just very steadily gaining weight and it didn't matter.
• 16:49
  Like you're still trying to work out. Yeah. Like obviously I could have been
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  eating better and working out more or different or whatever,
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  but I genuinely was working out five times a week probably.
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  And I was eating decent. like i wasn't
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  eating crazy or anything and i could not lose
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  the weight or if i did i'd lose two pounds and then
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  plateau give it a week or two and i back up those pounds
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  and their friends and i'm like we break mom
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  and i's heart because you would get so frustrated frustrating because i
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  was like i'm doing the work and i'm just gaining weight and i didn't feel
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  like myself and i was so tired all the
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  time like i don't know how much we talked i like no i could not get
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  through the the day without at least a nap i know you when you come
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  home and stuff you would nap a lot not worse i and i it wasn't
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  a genuine like all day sometimes and i was just
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  no matter what if i slept for two hours or 12 i didn't put that part
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  together i was so tired and it was so frustrating because
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  i didn't know what to do about it and i didn't i felt like i had no options
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  because i don't drink caffeine because anxiety like crazy and so i just felt
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  so i don't know what to do and i was like why is this happening to me why does
• 17:51
  everybody else function and i cannot do that And then I also tied a lot of those
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  things. I was like, it must just be like my depression.
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  That's why I can't get out of bed. That's why I'm so tired. And so I kind of
• 18:01
  just overlooked the fatigue part of it.
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  Man. And then I had a lot of other like random little symptoms, but nothing that was.
• 18:07
  Some throat stuff. And I mean. So many things. Yeah. Nothing that was like,
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  I need to go to the doctor right now.
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  But a lot of things where I just didn't feel good. I never felt good ever for years.
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  Yeah. But I just got to a point where I was like, I guess this is.
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  This is what I feel. Yeah. This is it.
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  And so anyways, then went to.
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  Freaking gynecology appointment i would say i don't remember
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  what okay yeah for the first time in my life because
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  you have to when you are a lady i still don't really know what
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  those are but don't talk about it no no hey go ahead
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  but anyways and my and i just like figured
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  i'd throw it out there and i just told my doctor like i've had a really hard time with
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  weight gain and i'm tired all the
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  time and blah blah and she immediately was like oh
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  let's check your thyroid and i was like well i'm not gonna do anything like
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  because at that point i was so convinced i was just doing everything wrong like
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  i wasn't working hard enough and whatever so anyway she
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  checked my thyroid and immediately was like your numbers are crazy this is
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  not normal get on these medications do these things and
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  long story short then after lots of so many doctors like i've never i went to
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  more doctor's appointments in the span of a month than i did my entire life
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  genuinely i have a funny bit here though to work in so i remember when you called
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  about that and we were we were like oh my gosh it sounds so bad and serious
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  and stuff and your mom and i had just gone down not too
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  long ago and alex was getting her
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  graduating from like radiology school and so
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  the thing that she could check was our thyroids yeah
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  and i don't remember this funny part but she told me my
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  thyroid should be like a thyroid model and it's like and you're telling me yours
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  is like here's right and and one of alex's friends was there and they showed
• 19:44
  us hers when we saw that and it's like she saw mine i didn't know what thyroid
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  was and it's like oh well apparently that's a good one and then she's like yeah
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  look at the look at my friends and then it was like just a.
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  Shredded pieces of whatever that is what i have that disease that was crazy
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  realistically by the time i'm 30 i like that really have a thyroid i'm ready
• 20:03
  to donate mine no but that's so kind of you but anyways so we'll we'll touch
• 20:10
  on that but also focusing more on the losing the weight and
• 20:14
  prioritizing health and just like how that's gone.
• 20:19
  But because the thing is, like we said in the other episode we did,
• 20:22
  you are exactly enough as you are at any size. For sure.
• 20:26
  Like genuinely, that is so true. And I believe that wholeheartedly. Yeah.
• 20:32
  And losing weight will not solve all your problems.
• 20:35
  You know, it feels like it will for people that struggle. But it won't solve all your problems.
• 20:39
  And it's important, I think, to love yourself at every stage of life.
• 20:43
  Being human and what that means for your body and everything you
• 20:46
  were trying i mean i think you were doing a good job of where you were at
• 20:49
  though trying to that's that was the whole reason we did the episode yeah just
• 20:53
  trying to love myself the way that i was you know i didn't feel great yeah um
• 20:56
  because i did i i was enough yeah 55 pounds ago and i'm still enough right now
• 21:02
  and i will be enough if i gained it all back you know and that i still believe
• 21:06
  that and that's true yeah Yeah.
• 21:07
  But in this whole thing for me, I feel like I've learned that wanting to be
• 21:14
  healthy and take care of your body is totally a good thing. Okay.
• 21:18
  Like it's such a good thing and you're allowed to make changes for your body
• 21:24
  and you're allowed to want to be healthier.
• 21:27
  And I feel like, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's more being a girl
• 21:32
  thing or maybe you'll feel it too, but it's like I do feel like there's weird things
• 21:37
  i guess stigma is almost just around anything you talk about body wise oh for
• 21:42
  sure like it's almost shifted i feel like i feel like on tiktok and stuff i
• 21:45
  see like if girls are promoting.
• 21:47
  Losing weight or working out or eating healthy people attack
• 21:50
  them a little bit and it's like you shouldn't be telling people they have to
• 21:54
  do this or you shouldn't whatever and it's like i get what you're saying if
• 21:56
  you're going way to the extremes but you're allowed to want to be healthy and
• 22:00
  so people want to they can find people that can help yes yeah like those people
• 22:03
  aren't evil do it no yeah it's okay to like do the things yeah to take care of your body and it's not,
• 22:11
  all bad so i feel like
• 22:14
  that's just an interesting thing and so it has been weird and like vulnerable
• 22:17
  to post about weight loss because i i fear that people will think i'm saying
• 22:21
  like yeah like you almost post things and then people think you're you're looking
• 22:24
  down on other people right yeah no i'm not you're perfect the way you are yeah
• 22:28
  this is just my experience yeah this is I like that.
• 22:31
  Because the thing is, I feel better.
• 22:37
  Like looks aside yeah i feel better and can you like quantify that or or because i think sometimes,
• 22:43
  ended that was that process so gradual that it's it was difficult to tell along
• 22:46
  the way or pretty quickly did you start feeling better or how can you like how
• 22:51
  do you i know that you know it but how do you yeah i know i feel like it seriously
• 22:55
  was a couple weeks and it was like,
• 22:58
  i just started to feel i think
• 23:01
  one of the questions someone asked was about like my relationship with
• 23:04
  food okay and how that's changed yeah and
• 23:07
  we've talked about that yeah i did not
• 23:10
  know how gross i felt because i'm so used to
• 23:13
  it talk about that because i i when you told me that i
• 23:15
  used that with some clients and there wasn't a person i don't think
• 23:18
  that didn't reason or that didn't resonate with yeah
• 23:21
  it was so interesting because i did i made a lot i changed my entire diet like
• 23:25
  you really did completely changed it which we can get into more of that but
• 23:29
  i I completely changed what I was eating and like what I'm putting into my body
• 23:35
  and how much water I'm drinking and all the little things that have to do with diet.
• 23:41
  And I don't feel gross anymore. If I do, I was telling you the other day,
• 23:45
  I was like, I'm just going to get Taco Bell because like. Right. You did it one time.
• 23:49
  Within 10 minutes, I was so miserable. Like I was so uncomfortable.
• 23:52
  I was just like, this feels awful. And that's what I felt like all the time
• 23:56
  because I was just not eating good things for my body.
• 23:58
  Yeah and so i do i don't even
• 24:01
  remember what you asked but i feel like well is there like how's it
• 24:04
  quantifiable so you that's so easy when you just don't feel
• 24:07
  gross little things that i see yeah like i feel different little dumb things
• 24:10
  tying my shoes so much easier okay yeah shaving my legs so much easier yeah
• 24:15
  wiping my butt okay easier i appreciate that yeah yeah like my body i still
• 24:21
  want to get a bidet though live your dream okay you love bidets i do.
• 24:28
  Hey, but all those little things, I appreciate that so much. So many little things.
• 24:31
  And then the, what was wild to me was, and I think I saw one of the questions
• 24:35
  where somebody asked about, did you go cold turkey with the food? And talk about that.
• 24:39
  I kind of did. You did. And I was so blown away. More so to fear though.
• 24:43
  Oh, I see. I was so afraid of what was happening to my body.
• 24:47
  I was like, I need to change something right now or I'm going to die.
• 24:50
  Which wasn't true, but that's kind of what it felt like. Yeah.
• 24:52
  What's wild though, is I've worked with enough people though,
• 24:54
  where they say that, oh yeah, if that would happen, then I would change and
• 24:56
  they don't. Yeah. So that's why I think in the back of my mind, I was still.
• 25:00
  It did it for me. Yeah. Because I've been trying to lose weight for three years
• 25:02
  or whatever. And then that was enough.
• 25:05
  But yeah, like just overall, I think prioritizing my health and taking care
• 25:09
  of myself has been such a good reminder that we only get one body.
• 25:14
  Yeah. Like we have one body. This is the thing that carries us through this life. Yeah.
• 25:20
  And you, I mean, obviously there are things that are out of our control,
• 25:23
  but you have have a decent say in a lot of aspects of how you're going to feel
• 25:29
  day to day and how what your body's going to look like and how it's going to
• 25:33
  feel and how it's going to function,
• 25:34
  and so it's like why would you not take care of it yeah why would you not put
• 25:39
  in the effort to because you're worth that effort you know i think so i mean
• 25:43
  i do i was talking with a client just a couple of weeks ago that just they just
• 25:47
  turned 40 and they were talking about
• 25:49
  how well now it's all downhill and i just want to say
• 25:52
  hey i'm right here in front of you and i'm like 14 years older
• 25:55
  than you and I refuse to stop crying
• 25:58
  it doesn't have to it doesn't again I know things are out of our control but
• 26:01
  it doesn't have to just be this awful thing and I do think to some extent I
• 26:05
  had kind of given up in that way where I'm like this is just what it is I'm
• 26:09
  never gonna like my body again I'm never gonna feel calm like I was just like
• 26:12
  I've tried yeah that's it so I,
• 26:16
  I don't know how to. But that cold turkey vibe, though, is it was I mean,
• 26:19
  it was noticeable, too, right away.
• 26:21
  And you you when you moved out here, you came home for a little bit in California
• 26:26
  and then just started to really try to get yourself put together, I guess, in a sense.
• 26:30
  And I'd been on medication a little bit there to stabilize thyroid stuff.
• 26:34
  Yeah. Which I think did something.
• 26:36
  And then moved out here to Arizona. And you just I feel like you've done an
• 26:38
  amazing job of just making it your almost a part time job or of.
• 26:43
  It is. Right. right? Getting sleep and eating right and hydrating and exercise,
• 26:48
  a lot of exercise and all that. So I'm sure we'll talk about that too. Yeah.
• 26:52
  But anyways, all of that, basically, it's okay to want to take care of your body.
• 26:56
  And I think it's okay to admit that, that you want to feel good and look good. I think that's fair.
• 27:01
  And I think what you're saying too, that I'm a big no shame therapist guy person.
• 27:07
  So I just want to, yeah, giving
• 27:10
  people permission that it's okay to to really want it and then
• 27:13
  also you're really the only person that knows deep inside
• 27:16
  this is not meaning to sound shameful of if
• 27:19
  you are showing up as your best self and
• 27:22
  i think that's where i work with plenty of people that it's
• 27:25
  pretty liberating when they can finally admit to themselves at time if
• 27:28
  this is the case where they're saying i know i'm not giving it
• 27:30
  my best effort yeah yeah side note yeah
• 27:34
  one of the peloton instructors that i really like yeah always says
• 27:36
  a thing where she goes she says i'm not going to tell you to like
• 27:40
  be your best self right now i'm going to tell you to be your
• 27:42
  favorite self and there's some stuff that i
• 27:45
  love yeah she'll tell she's like if you she's like
• 27:48
  if i ask you what your best self look looks like you probably don't
• 27:51
  really know exactly what that is but if i ask you what
• 27:54
  your favorite ice cream flavor is or your favorite like all these little things
• 27:57
  you have an answer and so you can prioritize just wanting to be your favorite
• 28:01
  version of you because you know what that feels like you know i don't want to
• 28:04
  hijack this episode all but i have to tell you i'm two-thirds of the way through
• 28:08
  i'm I'm doing an episode on the virtual couch about your reflected sense of self.
• 28:12
  And I traced it back to this psychologist back in the early 1900s.
• 28:15
  And he talks about this looking glass self.
• 28:18
  And I'll just go through this because I think it's so interesting what you just
• 28:21
  said. It's this guy named Cooley.
• 28:22
  And so he said, the looking glass self is the process through which people develop
• 28:26
  their self-concept based on their understanding of how others perceive them.
• 28:29
  And the process is three components.
• 28:31
  One is imagining how we appear to others. So we contemplate how we think we are seen by others.
• 28:37
  Two is in imagining the judgment of that appearance.
• 28:40
  So we imagine how others are judging us based on our appearance or behavior
• 28:44
  of what we think that people think we're doing.
• 28:47
  And then the third one is then we develop feelings around ourselves based on these judgments.
• 28:51
  So we assume that we know what other people see in us.
• 28:56
  Then we imagine how they're judging us based off of what we think that they see.
• 29:01
  And then our feelings follow based on the judgments, based on what We think
• 29:04
  that, so I just said, there's so many variables there that are so getting in
• 29:08
  the way of who you really are.
• 29:11
  Just so it's wild yeah it shouldn't have
• 29:14
  to be like that so then it just says he says yeah it's it
• 29:17
  suggests our self-esteem and self-worth are influenced by how we believe others
• 29:20
  view us and and i was just saying that's normal but i
• 29:23
  think having a healthy understanding of that's the process that we go
• 29:26
  through helps you then untangle yourself from that process yeah like
• 29:30
  yeah i'm trying to think of some a
• 29:33
  segue for this but i don't have one but read
• 29:37
  a little thing i but just said you
• 29:40
  are more than just a body you are a soul nourish both and
• 29:44
  that to me was like i feel like that
• 29:46
  embodies everything that i'm trying to yeah say here like the point i'm trying
• 29:51
  to make because i think that that's it and i think there is it is like a balance
• 29:55
  that you are more than just your body but your body is what carries your soul
• 30:00
  so they work together pretty well and i I think you need to nourish,
• 30:04
  you need to nourish because your soul is everything.
• 30:08
  Like your soul, that, that is who you are. That is, that is the big thing,
• 30:12
  but your body is what carries the vessel that carries it.
• 30:15
  It really is safe and allows it to be exactly what it is.
• 30:19
  And so I think in nourishing our soul, we have to care for our body and through
• 30:24
  nourishing our body, we are caring for our soul.
• 30:27
  So I do think it is like hand in hand. And I don't think you can just do one and like be fine.
• 30:33
  Let's just have noticed you've been reading more. I don't know if you've been meditating.
• 30:36
  I have. Okay. Good for you. I'm going to reduce my stress levels.
• 30:41
  Okay. But yeah, so I just feel like it's all tied together. And I feel like
• 30:43
  I felt that so strongly through the last couple months because it has been more than just exercising.
• 30:48
  Right. And it's different. It is like way deeper than that.
• 30:52
  But yeah, so that's, those are some of my takes. I dig it. What's been the hardest
• 30:58
  thing food-wise, honestly?
• 31:00
  Well, okay. That's the kind of the funny thing because I went gluten-free and
• 31:05
  then I'm on like a low acid diet.
• 31:07
  And I even drink water that there's just.
• 31:09
  I drink alkaline water. Yeah. Which I still don't understand.
• 31:12
  PH something. Sure. But the thing that I've been shocked by is that the longer
• 31:18
  it's been since I've had certain foods, the less I want them.
• 31:20
  Like i really thought there'd be a time that i would never be able to go
• 31:23
  without taco bell yeah and i don't want it i don't
• 31:26
  like i don't want it no offense to mr bell he did you
• 31:29
  right right for a long time for so long but i just don't want
• 31:32
  it and i don't crave foods like that anymore it's weird because i feel like
• 31:36
  people are lying when they say i was gonna say can i just float this out there
• 31:39
  i don't yeah you haven't in a long time i occasionally i'm like i could go for
• 31:44
  some and then if i drink it it burns and like this isn't fun anymore it's not
• 31:48
  that good burn that Did I like? No.
• 31:51
  So that's been interesting. Well, then also I, so I come from this place of
• 31:55
  what do we do with our discomfort?
• 31:56
  And so it's uncomfortable to, I think even the time you spend meal prepping.
• 32:03
  Yeah. Is I think one of the reasons why people just go to fast food or. It's a lot.
• 32:07
  And you have been so patient with that. And I don't understand where that comes from.
• 32:11
  It's fear. Okay. Okay. It's not like, like how do you motivate it? Yes.
• 32:16
  Weird. because i'm sitting there like getting whatever and
• 32:20
  then you're cutting up your potatoes and a
• 32:23
  couple times you've made me i really like when you make me like the chicken and
• 32:26
  avocado or potato thing and you're like oh yeah
• 32:28
  it'll be ready about 45 minutes i'm like okay i'm good yeah oh my gosh okay
• 32:35
  i think well i think i just have the question let's do it yeah speed around
• 32:40
  that yeah yeah okay lots of people wondering what the autoimmune disease is
• 32:44
  yeah ashimoto's thyroid And I don't know enough about it.
• 32:48
  It's basically my body with any autoimmune disease, your body is attacking itself essentially.
• 32:53
  So for whatever reason, my body has decided that my thyroid is an intruder and
• 32:58
  is sending antibodies to attack it. To attack it.
• 33:02
  So like your white blood cell count was up for no reason or something like that.
• 33:05
  Just weird things because it's just like attacking my thyroid,
• 33:11
  even though my thyroid is just chilling.
• 33:12
  Yeah, I say not cool body. And so then because of that, my thyroid has become
• 33:16
  underactive. So it doesn't produce enough of what it's supposed to.
• 33:19
  And I don't know if you knew this, but the thyroid kind of runs like the whole show.
• 33:23
  So I only learned that in my therapy world where a hyper and hypo is underperforming.
• 33:29
  Like you just said, hyper is over and hyper can almost mimic symptoms of anxiety
• 33:33
  and ADHD and hypo can be depressive, depressive, right?
• 33:37
  Yes. Okay. And so it's just, it literally, your thyroid is connected to seriously
• 33:42
  basically every system in the body.
• 33:44
  Like your heart and your lungs and your nervous system.
• 33:50
  Like both, like seriously all of it. It's deeply connected.
• 33:55
  And so if your thyroid is not functioning the way that it's supposed to,
• 33:58
  it affects so many things.
• 34:00
  Like so many random things. like how you tolerate temperatures and like just
• 34:05
  so like bizarre things that you would not think.
• 34:09
  It affects yeah because it's just this little thing and
• 34:11
  like sitting in your throat so it doesn't seem like it no that
• 34:14
  would right i just about it if you're not if it's
• 34:17
  not broken i just said can you explain hashimoto's disorder
• 34:20
  to someone with a middle school level of education to go to my best
• 34:23
  friend chat gpt so this will be interesting it says sure hashimoto's
• 34:27
  disorder also known as hashimoto's thyroiditis is a
• 34:30
  condition where the body's immune system mistakenly attacks the thyroid
• 34:33
  gland the thyroid is a small butterfly-shaped gland in
• 34:36
  your neck it's not small no anymore and it
• 34:39
  makes hormones that help control many important functions in
• 34:42
  your body like your metabolism how your body uses energy growth
• 34:45
  and development when somebody has hashimoto's their immune system thinks the
• 34:48
  thyroid is a threat and attacks it this can damage the thyroid and make it produce
• 34:52
  fewer hormones when the thyroid doesn't make enough hormones it can cause symptoms
• 34:56
  like feeling very tired gaining weight having dry skin feeling cold even when
• 35:00
  others are warm and feeling sad or depressed wow i nailed it you did i was really
• 35:06
  scared you're gonna read it i I know, right?
• 35:07
  No, it's so, yeah. It's so wild, Mac. And then there's just a million little
• 35:12
  symptoms that you would never even know are tied to it. And it's just crazy.
• 35:18
  So that's what I deal with. And your numbers can fluctuate a lot, which sucks.
• 35:23
  Like even on a medication. I know. Do you know what impacts that?
• 35:28
  No, honestly. I don't know the nitty gritty things.
• 35:32
  But yeah, so that's what I have.
• 35:35
  Hey, Mac, do you want to see what's fun? I said, can you give me a limerick
• 35:38
  about a girl named Mackie who has this?
• 35:40
  There once was a girl named Mackie whose thyroid was feeling quite wacky.
• 35:43
  Her hormones ran low, but with meds in tow, she's now full of energy,
• 35:47
  not slacky. I mean, amen.
• 35:51
  Oh my gosh. Okay, next one. How did you know something was wrong and needed
• 35:56
  to get yourself checked out on?
• 35:58
  Which this one I have a few thoughts on because...
• 36:01
  At now that I have, I'm like, I should have just gone to the doctor sooner when
• 36:04
  I. Mom and I told you like all the time.
• 36:07
  Oh, did we do? Oh, okay. No, you never did. I bet we did it once or twice. You never did.
• 36:13
  But I think that I just like, side note, I think if you feel like you are not
• 36:19
  yourself and that something is off and something is wrong, you are worth like. Go get it picked out.
• 36:26
  Getting the answers because there is a chance that there is something wrong.
• 36:30
  I don't know if I told you, Mac, in grad school, whenever you would do a role
• 36:35
  play for, what am I, therapy, therapist?
• 36:39
  It was always like you would get points knocked off if you first didn't say
• 36:43
  to the pretend person, hey, when's your last medical checkup?
• 36:48
  That's crazy because I've been dealing with anxiety and depression since I was
• 36:51
  14 and I've never had a doctor say, let's check your hormone level. I know.
• 36:56
  Let's check something. thing so even just since you well yeah since you've had
• 37:00
  this happen i've learned about what is perimenopause and the and it's that's
• 37:04
  about hormones yeah and then the thyroid stuff and so
• 37:08
  real it's so it affects you or pmdd there's all kinds of okay that all and because
• 37:13
  i think they're they're kind of all hormone people did you see that you almost died okay that was,
• 37:22
  that okay please go watch the youtube video everybody that was
• 37:24
  a setup just so that people would watch the youtube video no no
• 37:30
  actually what's kind of cool is my adrenaline is not even there's your meditation
• 37:33
  for you i caught that because normally if a balloon pops you oh yeah balloons
• 37:38
  are still gonna freak me out yeah balloons and large dogs but boy microphones
• 37:43
  that was crazy though that was kind of a lot thank you please go we won't even
• 37:48
  tell you go Go watch the YouTube video.
• 37:50
  Hey. Is that what I'm talking about?
• 37:55
  Oh, doctor. Yeah. If you think something's
• 37:58
  wrong. Here. Can you hold my microphone? I'll put this back on.
• 38:04
  But I...
• 38:07
  Like I knew something was off, but I didn't really like even listen to myself,
• 38:12
  which sucks. So listen to yourself.
• 38:14
  Did you ever? I mean, no. How would you have known it would be anything like this?
• 38:17
  Hormones or. That's the thing. I seriously just assumed I wasn't doing the work
• 38:21
  right. Like that's what my that's where my mind went.
• 38:25
  Which is. Well, I think what's unfair, honestly, Mac, and I'm not trying to
• 38:28
  say that we would sit there, mom, and I'd be like, she's not really doing the
• 38:31
  work. But it's like you feel so bad that you want to even as a parent,
• 38:36
  you want to say something like, hey, are you for sure?
• 38:39
  Because it's like I see the work you're doing. So you must not be in the times
• 38:43
  that I don't see you. Right.
• 38:45
  And I was like, I'm doing it. I'm doing the things.
• 38:49
  So that was always frustrating. And I wanted to when I got diagnosed,
• 38:52
  I seriously wanted to like broadcast it to everyone.
• 38:55
  Yeah. In my life, even though nobody would actually it doesn't it doesn't matter.
• 38:59
  But I seriously want to be like, it made me want to go, you guys, it was my thyroid.
• 39:03
  I was doing the work. Like I told you that I was working out. I was eating good.
• 39:08
  Well, full transparency though. Weren't you saying though that you got to a
• 39:10
  point, like maybe as you got feeling worse that you would just like eat one
• 39:14
  meal a day and stuff like that. Okay. So like. Super unhealthy.
• 39:17
  But that was like after you already felt like I'm not, it doesn't matter what I do. Okay.
• 39:22
  Because for a long time you would start doing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 39:25
  Giving up and then trying hard yeah but when i was saying i was
• 39:28
  doing the work i was doing the work yeah and you kept exercising throughout
• 39:31
  the whole thing and it's funny because that's in my mind it's just well as
• 39:34
  long as you exercise you'll be fine right and so that's why i felt
• 39:36
  bad yeah for real yeah um okay
• 39:40
  how long did it take to get my diagnosis it i
• 39:43
  mean all in all it was probably like two months like
• 39:46
  being it was immediately like you have hypothyroidism but then it was a little
• 39:51
  little bit later more blood work that then was when the acid thing that thing
• 39:55
  you have is a whole different thing right possibly yeah i don't know okay i'm
• 40:00
  not sure um okay how is your life easier and how is it harder since getting your diagnosis.
• 40:07
  Easier because answers yeah it is good
• 40:10
  to have answers like i was i was able to say that even when i first got
• 40:12
  diagnosed yeah when i was like miserable and it was awful and i was so scared
• 40:15
  and i was like i don't know what to do with this information but and like just
• 40:19
  overwhelmed with all of it i was like okay there's an answer like that is why
• 40:24
  yeah these things are happening and easier because then it opened up this all
• 40:29
  these doors of like here are things you can actually do,
• 40:32
  about it yeah but in that
• 40:35
  same breath that is how it's gotten
• 40:38
  harder because i've been had to do the thing you did and you
• 40:40
  kept doing i can't not i can't tell you to do them like it's
• 40:43
  i've had to put in that work and so that because i know if i don't i like i
• 40:47
  know what will happen and so i have to put in the work i think about even just
• 40:51
  the simple thing like my favorite bar which they would sponsor is nugo bars
• 40:55
  and they're like they it seems like they're they're everything in them is wholesome
• 40:59
  and wonderful, and you eat the ones that don't have chocolate.
• 41:01
  And I know, I feel like every time I say, well, Mac, they're like so good, though, for you.
• 41:06
  I'm sure you could sneak one of these bad boys in, and you have resisted.
• 41:09
  Don't do it. You don't do chocolate.
• 41:11
  I can't. I'm not supposed to. Gosh, I don't get it.
• 41:15
  Okay, then how did you start? Did you just change and go cold turkey?
• 41:18
  Okay. So yeah, kind of, I did. Which I know is...
• 41:23
  Difficult because if you're not in a position where you're scared of
• 41:26
  like medical things for real man and you don't have that motivation
• 41:29
  it's like i i truthfully don't know what to say to
• 41:32
  be like yeah just do it like it's gonna be great do
• 41:35
  it but it's worth and i don't
• 41:37
  want to sound like i don't want to sound dismissive to anybody
• 41:40
  but i again from my therapist chair is
• 41:44
  i would call it like the scared straight theory so literally
• 41:47
  what it is yeah that's what and i think that's got a
• 41:50
  it's got a it's got a runway or shelf life like i'll have people get
• 41:53
  caught i mean honestly by police or something with stuff
• 41:56
  that they shouldn't or you name it and then
• 41:58
  all of a sudden it's like oh they they they say i will
• 42:01
  never do it again and they really mean it but then it's like
• 42:04
  once that like oh initial scared straight
• 42:07
  wears off so then i think one of the big keys is once you
• 42:09
  get once you're scared then you have to actually put in
• 42:12
  the work because if you just say i'll never do it again all you're doing
• 42:15
  is alleviating your discomfort but it's then taking uh the effort
• 42:18
  to change that is the key right and you jumped right in and did that
• 42:21
  and so i did i made like a lot of little changes
• 42:24
  right at the start because i was so overwhelmed with everything but
• 42:27
  i did like just started drinking more water i stopped drinking soda i changed
• 42:33
  my meals like immediately i stopped eating out for the most part like started
• 42:38
  cooking things started cooking a lot oh you baked how many things have you baked
• 42:42
  that you have not enjoyed honestly like you your trial
• 42:45
  and error is amazing that's i went gluten-free and so i've tried to make so many.
• 42:50
  Gluten-free things and it's i've been so impressed
• 42:53
  with you though you're doing that i've tried i just like immediately started
• 42:56
  trying things and i did try to like kind of make it fun yeah
• 42:59
  and make it like okay i get to like learn these things and i get to and you
• 43:02
  tried so many in the kitchen and i get to like do these things and
• 43:05
  that i think made a difference but so it's
• 43:09
  like yes i did go cold turkey but i know that that's not the most realistic thing
• 43:12
  but i do think the little changes are because it is
• 43:15
  making lifestyle changes like it's not just doing something for
• 43:18
  a month and then being done with it it's being so
• 43:21
  consistent okay okay and then i can't say this enough
• 43:24
  but that is the concept of if we're just do if
• 43:27
  you're just doing it to alleviate your discomfort it
• 43:30
  will not last no but if you're to be like
• 43:33
  this yeah it really does changes and
• 43:36
  feel better and so then even when you're doing it and now all of
• 43:39
  a sudden i don't want to do it anymore there's the the discomfort so now
• 43:42
  i have to a growth comes through that discomfort well because i've i've kind
• 43:45
  of hit a point the last like two weeks where i i do not want to work out i don't
• 43:49
  i don't want to do it i'm over it i hate it i'm like just in a little rut with
• 43:53
  it and i don't want to do it but i show up and i do it anyway you did we work
• 43:57
  we were gym buddies yesterday in the garage gym and you still did like an hour
• 44:00
  on the treadmill or whatever you know the five minute one.
• 44:04
  It's just this little thing. It's like you drop some on the ground.
• 44:07
  You have five minutes before you need it.
• 44:09
  That was seconds, but okay. We've changed it to five minutes.
• 44:12
  Okay. No, it's just, if there's ever anything you don't want to do,
• 44:14
  just commit to five minutes.
• 44:16
  Oh, I like that. Like just get on the treadmill for five minutes.
• 44:18
  And genuinely, if after five minutes you are so done, you can get off.
• 44:22
  But 90% of the time, you're going to keep going. You know, back in my ultra
• 44:28
  running days, you had like a just one more mile rule.
• 44:31
  Okay. Yeah. And it was like, even if you had to walk another mile,
• 44:33
  then before you know it, you're five, six, seven more down the road.
• 44:37
  Yeah. So that's been. That's interesting.
• 44:39
  Even like cooking things too. Like just to be like, just start.
• 44:43
  And probably in five minutes, you'll be like, fine. That's a great rule.
• 44:47
  It's a great rule. It's really helpful when you don't have motivation.
• 44:51
  You don't want to do things.
• 44:52
  Okay. Best way to bring down inflammation in the body. Where to start losing weight.
• 44:57
  Hashimoto's is all about inflammation. your whole body is inflamed basically
• 45:00
  and that's a big part of the why you're supposed to cut out gluten and why i
• 45:03
  have cut out gluten you've said that that alone you think is this game changer
• 45:07
  bodies like don't know how to process i've heard of that but dairy why is it so yummy though.
• 45:14
  I can't have ideas i know but so
• 45:18
  that cutting out gluten seriously like i mean within two
• 45:22
  weeks of doing that like my face had changed like mine like
• 45:25
  my wasn't bloated i wasn't like all these these things i
• 45:28
  just felt a lot better that bloated thing i mean i know that
• 45:31
  feeling yes and that for me gluten and dairy 100 so
• 45:34
  cutting those things out is great for
• 45:37
  that and just even if you do that initially so you start feeling better and
• 45:42
  then you're a little bit more motivated i think to keep doing the things and
• 45:44
  then you start to lose the weight and then you're like this is kind of fun seeing
• 45:47
  the results and then you want to keep going yeah um i don't know where to start
• 45:53
  losing I don't know if that means literally where,
• 45:56
  because if you mean literally where you can't, you cannot spot reduce,
• 45:59
  which I do think is important.
• 46:01
  If you're trying to like make changes in your body, it's important to know you can't pick and choose.
• 46:07
  Yeah i was saying i know that i've heard that that is frustrating
• 46:10
  for some people because you want you're like i want my arms to be
• 46:12
  smaller yeah you know yeah just my butt's disappearing
• 46:15
  a bit kind of a bummer but oh yeah you're
• 46:18
  you just start and it falls off where it wants to um because you use a certain
• 46:24
  program for exercise and eating peloton through and through we are peloton we
• 46:28
  are we have the treadmill the rower and the bike and then we do the outdoor
• 46:33
  or we do all the workouts on the apps. You don't even need the thing.
• 46:35
  I do the meditation through it.
• 46:37
  That has changed my life. I literally use Peloton every single day. Yeah.
• 46:42
  That has been the most motivating thing as far as like exercising goes.
• 46:45
  Are you friends on Peloton? I don't think we are. Why is that?
• 46:49
  I don't think we are. I think I've probably tried to friend you like a thousand
• 46:52
  times. That's so not true. Don't trust me right now.
• 46:56
  But then eating, no. I didn't do anything. Do you do the weight tracker?
• 47:00
  Do you do the calorie app thing?
• 47:02
  Kind of against that. Okay. I think it's unhealthy. I had a fun new bit with
• 47:06
  that with, because, you know, moms does it every single day.
• 47:09
  And I, I got, I do have like, I did it for a little bit and I do feel like I
• 47:13
  got a good idea of like, this is how many calories these things are.
• 47:16
  Yeah. And then moving forward, I just was like mindful of that, but I don't log them.
• 47:20
  Yeah. I do use that app that I use it just to track my weight.
• 47:25
  Okay. It gives you fun graphics every time you lose five pounds.
• 47:28
  Oh, I do not know that about the app. It's where I said I lost five bowling
• 47:31
  balls. Oh, no, I'm saying I've never experienced that. Thank you.
• 47:35
  And every time I started up again, every couple of weeks, it's like you again.
• 47:38
  It does. And it's funny because it kind of sent my change.
• 47:41
  It's like, so do you want to try anything new? Are you going to pretend that
• 47:44
  like the other stuff will work?
• 47:46
  And I was like, no, I think the other stuff will still work. gosh yeah
• 47:49
  but yeah it said you lost five bowling balls
• 47:52
  bowling balls it gives you fun little things like that which is
• 47:55
  crazy like think about running i think about that all the time with
• 47:58
  you because your times are kind of getting back down to 55 pound
• 48:01
  backpack on no that was my life isn't
• 48:04
  that crazy it really is i think i told you um one
• 48:07
  of my friends who is a doctor and i was talking about losing
• 48:10
  weight to help my meniscus problem yeah and
• 48:13
  he had said that every pound was was at four pounds of pressure yeah
• 48:16
  so yeah so like when you and you were at 50 at that point
• 48:19
  and so it was like 200 pounds of pressure per don't really
• 48:23
  bother me anymore that's pretty wild for
• 48:26
  real because you used to have some of that pain so i was i would limp around
• 48:29
  after yeah and i was just like oh she's making that up you know no you're making
• 48:34
  yours up okay okay start that i wasn't really oh my gosh okay uh did you find
• 48:39
  meditation helpful 100 i don't do it enough actually this This could be a whole episode probably.
• 48:46
  But I realized something with meditation that I need you to therapize me. I will.
• 48:51
  I'm really bad at being consistent. I'm really bad at meditating when I feel
• 48:54
  good. I typically only meditate when I'm in full-blown panic mode.
• 48:57
  So I think I've associated it with being panicked. And so if I feel good and
• 49:02
  I meditate, I get scared.
• 49:03
  That is so, it's normal. So it will, shockingly, just to do it every day.
• 49:08
  You keep doing it. Yeah. And it's funny that meditation app,
• 49:11
  when I look on the Peloton app or not meditation app, the Peloton app,
• 49:14
  it was wild how quickly that went.
• 49:17
  And if I look, I think I'm at now 400, uh, meditations and that was within a
• 49:23
  year because once you really start doing it, I mean, if I have five extra minutes,
• 49:27
  I want to do it when I'm feeling good.
• 49:28
  And so that's why, so we, we, we form these like relational frames.
• 49:32
  So it's like anxiety, meditate, feel good. Don't. And that is,
• 49:36
  that is the time to do it because that's what I was saying earlier of when, yeah.
• 49:39
  Cause when we feel like when I feel bad and I want to alleviate my discomfort, then I will meditate.
• 49:44
  That's great. but then once my my discomfort is
• 49:47
  gone then i'm like no i'm good i don't need to worry about it and
• 49:50
  that is when i i have my men's group tonight that we
• 49:53
  did this uh wednesday nights and that's for people that are struggling with turning
• 49:56
  to unhealthy coping mechanisms and and i will often say that it's that story
• 50:00
  of you know this is the last time i'm ever going to do it act out or whatever
• 50:03
  and the person i believe in that moment believes it so then they feel like okay
• 50:07
  no i'm good and so then they wake up the next day and like i don't have to do
• 50:11
  anything different because is I get it now. Like I'm good.
• 50:14
  And I do that. And, you know, people do that over and over and over again.
• 50:18
  And people do it in couples relationships as a couples therapist where they fight, they withdraw.
• 50:23
  Somebody pops their head back out and says, hey, are we good?
• 50:27
  And everyone's like, yeah, because we want to alleviate our discomfort.
• 50:30
  And then once they're like, OK, cool.
• 50:31
  And then they come in and say to me in therapy, no, we're good.
• 50:34
  We're OK now. And that's where I started saying the absence of bad does not mean good. Right.
• 50:38
  And so that that concept is when we feel better, we think, no,
• 50:42
  I'm I'm really and we believe it like I'm good.
• 50:44
  So so that's where I think the meditation, even if and the Peloton has a little five minute ones.
• 50:49
  So it's like even if you just do that every day because you're trying to create
• 50:53
  a new relational frame that it's like I do it daily.
• 50:56
  I mean, this morning I get back from my run and the first thing I do is I,
• 50:59
  you know, I just I go out there and I meditate outside, which has been phenomenal.
• 51:03
  Yeah. And then I'll usually try to throw a little one in the middle of the day.
• 51:06
  And then last night i did one before i went to bed i mean it's it's amazing
• 51:09
  mac yeah i really do think it helps and
• 51:12
  not even obviously i'm not great at it but i do it sometimes
• 51:15
  but even just like i will just do little breathing that
• 51:18
  like yeah okay it's on the live list where i just do
• 51:20
  my in for four hold oh yeah yeah and i'll do that
• 51:23
  even if it's just for like a minute yeah but just trying to
• 51:26
  ground myself a little bit um and i
• 51:29
  just think i think lowering your stress levels and
• 51:32
  your anxiety levels not fixes
• 51:35
  but it gives you the pause and allows you to yes yeah
• 51:38
  and we talked about that better yeah other ways on the live I think we were
• 51:43
  talking about by the way um Mackie joined me on a tiktok live to 10,000 of our
• 51:48
  friends uh and we'll be doing that again probably this won't go out until after
• 51:52
  we've done it again but then we'll do another one I think maybe Sunday night
• 51:55
  when people get this maybe.
• 51:57
  Um, but, but I just, I think give me 30 seconds to say that meditation,
• 52:01
  I want to say this every single time is not about stopping your thoughts.
• 52:04
  It's not about clearing your mind. It's about changing your relationship with thoughts.
• 52:07
  So when you are, you are thinking and ruminating and worrying and wondering,
• 52:10
  and then you do some in through the nose, out through the mouth breathing.
• 52:14
  And then at that point, then when you stop doing that, your brain will go right
• 52:18
  back to thinking and ruminating and worrying.
• 52:19
  And then you come back to the breathing and the present. And it is that doing
• 52:24
  that over and over again, your brain starts to, because your emotions travel,
• 52:30
  some believe, two and a half times faster than your logic.
• 52:32
  So you're having this emotional reaction, and then you're thinking about things.
• 52:37
  So what you're doing with meditation is you're learning to lower your resting
• 52:41
  heart rate, which allows you to have more of a pause before your heart rate elevates.
• 52:46
  If your heart rate elevates, your cortisol levels spike, and then you get into
• 52:49
  that amygdala hijack. And so if you aren't meditating, you aren't sleeping,
• 52:53
  you aren't hydrating, you aren't exercising, then your startle response,
• 52:56
  so to speak, is like right on the edge.
• 52:58
  So then it can be the smallest thing and your heart rate just elevates and your
• 53:02
  cortisol floods your brain and you go right into fight or flight.
• 53:05
  So the daily meditation, the daily mindfulness practice is absolutely about
• 53:09
  over time, lowering your resting heart rate and then training your body that
• 53:14
  as soon as your heart rate starts to elevate, you're going to,
• 53:16
  I mean, you square off your shoulders, you get grounded.
• 53:20
  And it's like you will do that without even knowing you're doing it.
• 53:23
  So that's the goal, if that makes sense.
• 53:25
  Well, side note, my heart rate a couple months ago was sitting steady between
• 53:30
  70 and 80 all the time because I was so anxious and so on edge.
• 53:33
  And so not well, and now I sit at about a 55. Okay, I'm about 56, 57.
• 53:40
  And then when I'm doing the meditating, yeah, that's the ultimate goal.
• 53:44
  This morning I got back from a run, and so I was like, oh, because it was 100
• 53:47
  million degrees here at eight, or is it four in the morning?
• 53:50
  And so my goal now has been to
• 53:52
  try to see how low I can get my heart rate right after a run in the heat.
• 53:55
  And so that's a fun game to play versus the should I meditate, you know?
• 54:00
  Yeah yeah so there's little the little things and like you're saying where it
• 54:03
  is like it's your sleep and it's yeah like your water
• 54:06
  intake and like all these little things they
• 54:09
  do make a big difference and it's hard to see that initially but if you stick
• 54:13
  with it you will notice yeah that like you are feeling better and things are
• 54:17
  okay and all that um okay i feel like already how did you find motivation to
• 54:22
  start fear fear absolutely terrified um did you have help to To lose the weight,
• 54:27
  like a shot or a pill, anything like that. Oh, no. I see. Your dad's motivation.
• 54:31
  My dad motivated me. Did you think about that? I mean, I remember wanting to
• 54:35
  even bring up to you some of those.
• 54:37
  I was about at the point where I was like, I need intervention here.
• 54:41
  Like, I need something to happen here because nothing's changing.
• 54:45
  I will say, though, I do need to give credit to my thyroid medication because
• 54:48
  I do think that's what's helped my metabolism be more normal.
• 54:53
  Gotcha. where then obviously i'm working out more and i've changed my diet completely but i do think,
• 54:58
  part like i feel like i have to say that to
• 55:01
  anyone that because i'm like it's not like yes you can
• 55:03
  do the things and turns out if you're if the
• 55:06
  things in your body are balanced it really is less calories
• 55:09
  yeah yeah that really is the formula like genuinely
• 55:13
  that's it's as simple as that even though you don't
• 55:16
  it's hard to say that when you're doing that it feels like nothing's happening yeah but
• 55:19
  if the other things are balanced so it's like once i got my thyroid a little bit more
• 55:22
  balance it really did come down to calorie in
• 55:25
  calorie out and some movement literally yeah it's like that's as simple as it
• 55:30
  was um okay we already kind of talked about food relationship changing we're
• 55:34
  basically genuinely food to me now is like it's fuel i would love that yeah
• 55:39
  there's still times i'm like i would really want that and i really and i let
• 55:41
  myself have certain things like.
• 55:44
  Moderation leverage but i do think you shouldn't restrict things i think that yes where i've had
• 55:49
  to make gluten-free options and do silly things like that but i think
• 55:53
  you should eat what you want to eat still um any advice
• 55:56
  for someone consistently working out but not disciplined with diet which
• 56:00
  unfortunately i feel like you have
• 56:03
  to be disciplined i know i was gonna say i will tell this person the good
• 56:06
  news is you're working out but the reality is there
• 56:09
  has to be an acceptance that okay now that i have this base of working
• 56:12
  out that now i need to slowly move into diet and i'm
• 56:15
  not one that is good at this that's i'm an ultra runner for 25 years
• 56:18
  so as long as you run on a dozen miles a day you can eat whatever you
• 56:21
  want but now that i'm not running in a dozen miles yeah after
• 56:24
  20 years i ate a bowl ice cream every single night oh
• 56:27
  and some nights they would double down if i did like 15 miles or so or 20 on
• 56:31
  a saturday then but it's like i think that that one's one where i think it just
• 56:35
  give yourself grace continue to give yourself props for exercise and then slowly
• 56:41
  start to add in the diet yeah it's hard it is hard but i do think there is the
• 56:46
  stupid, it's kind of the 80-20,
• 56:49
  80-diet-20 working out thing. And that there is truth to that, unfortunately.
• 56:53
  Yeah, there is. The way they say abs are created in the kitchen.
• 56:56
  I hate that. I hate that. Yeah, it sucks so bad, but there really is truth to that.
• 57:00
  So I do think that, but there are so many benefits to working out where it's
• 57:06
  like, that's still a good thing.
• 57:06
  And you should still be proud of yourself or even if that's all you're doing.
• 57:10
  Um, okay. We're almost done.
• 57:13
  How, oh, that just more, how do you stay motivated?
• 57:16
  I feel like I do well for a while and then fizzle out, which that's what I was
• 57:19
  in a cycle of doing for so long.
• 57:20
  And I do feel like there's this, I've reached this level of like,
• 57:24
  there is a self love thing in there that maybe we can even do a whole other type of thing on.
• 57:30
  On no for real but i think that when you really look
• 57:33
  inward and and view your worth and your
• 57:36
  value and like love your soul
• 57:40
  and who you are you realize that you are so worth the effort yeah and i think
• 57:45
  that's a huge part of it where again like i'm saying where it's like even when
• 57:48
  i don't want to show up i show up because i do care about myself yeah you know
• 57:52
  and that does kind of help i think that was the thing you should listen to your
• 57:54
  body and there are days that i don't work out like If there are days where I'm
• 57:57
  like, today's, it's not a big day and that's okay.
• 57:59
  I remember we were having a conversation when we were just hanging out at the
• 58:01
  pool that one day about like, I was talking to you about the concept of being
• 58:05
  differentiated too, is that once I recognize that I don't need someone else to tell me I'm okay.
• 58:10
  Yeah. It's also a lot easier to stay grounded when people are maybe not treating
• 58:15
  you as kindly or people are trying to criticize you.
• 58:17
  And if you're good with yourself, then you're not even reacting saying you can't say that or whatever.
• 58:23
  It's like, okay, those are words you're saying because I'm good.
• 58:25
  Yeah. And so I think that self-love thing is really important.
• 58:28
  Yeah. And so I do feel like I've through this whole thing.
• 58:31
  Yeah. It's like, I have had to look inward a lot and I have had to put in the
• 58:34
  time and spend a lot of time with myself in doing that.
• 58:38
  And so I do just think that, but also freaking Peloton, the Peloton instructors.
• 58:43
  I love it. Yeah. They're, they're good. They're good.
• 58:47
  They just say things that like a lot of that.
• 58:51
  Yes, you can. But they do, They say so many things like that and about like,
• 58:55
  you are worth this effort.
• 58:57
  Yeah, I know. I love it too. I do. I think it's so great. I do.
• 59:01
  I feel like that has, I've heard it so many times now because of how many classes
• 59:05
  I've taken that I just, it's kind of, I'm like, yeah, I am.
• 59:09
  It's always like, if you think you can't, you can. Yeah, I can.
• 59:13
  And sometimes they go, you can. And I'm like, no, I can't. Right.
• 59:17
  And start crying. Okay. Last question was, how do you keep staying positive
• 59:20
  with your diagnosis? Is this the part you're talking about your dad?
• 59:23
  Yeah. I want to see. Back when I was a kid.
• 59:27
  No, I think just, I kind of said something about this in that post that I did,
• 59:32
  but just the, like embracing,
• 59:35
  which is a lot of your acceptance stuff here, embracing the fact that you really,
• 59:38
  you cannot control what life makes at you. Life's lifing all over you, Mac. It will.
• 59:43
  It's going to life crap out of you. Yeah. And like that can suck in a lot of ways, but it just is.
• 59:50
  And I think if you can accept that, then it's like,
• 59:53
  I don't have a say in what life's going to throw at me. I didn't have a say
• 59:56
  in getting this autoimmune disease. Yeah.
• 59:59
  But I have a say in how I'm going to react.
• 1:00:04
  Yeah, exact words. And what's I'm going to take and what's going to come next.
• 1:00:07
  And that's what I've done.
• 1:00:08
  I have taken that because there is the thing where I feel like mom is the one
• 1:00:13
  that says or has talked to me about this.
• 1:00:16
  But if you quit and you
• 1:00:18
  give up and you decide to just be negative and
• 1:00:21
  go in the corner and whatever you know exactly what the outcome is yep
• 1:00:24
  every time you know exactly what that's going to look like
• 1:00:27
  and feel like and it sucks but if you try
• 1:00:30
  if you even try to like do something good with the situation you open up all
• 1:00:36
  these doors and then there's room for all these possible outcomes that could
• 1:00:39
  be so good and they're uncertain and you don't know but it's better than the
• 1:00:43
  one you know well it's funny and you're right mom's i don't now it's not like well i said.
• 1:00:48
  Right oh no no i'm not but i just i remember when when your
• 1:00:51
  uh cousin connor was here and we were sitting around on a saturday and it
• 1:00:54
  was actually mom saying okay let's go visit this uh like ghost town
• 1:00:57
  or whatever remember that yeah and then and then yeah because we
• 1:01:00
  were saying that if you if we sit here even if
• 1:01:03
  we're not not enjoying it we know what
• 1:01:06
  sitting around another saturday at our house is going to
• 1:01:09
  feel like but we didn't know what going to a cool ghost
• 1:01:12
  town and doing in the zip line and it was dope it was
• 1:01:14
  so fun it really was yeah but yeah
• 1:01:17
  so i just think like we i think i've been able to
• 1:01:20
  obviously i had my moments like we didn't go i need to find that
• 1:01:23
  episode we recorded because we talked more about the interesting
• 1:01:26
  parts of it and how awful the actual diagnosis was
• 1:01:29
  and how scary it was and how it was like actually horrible
• 1:01:33
  but i think just yeah
• 1:01:36
  except it like kind of in that acceptance that it is what it is
• 1:01:39
  basically and i get to choose if I want to
• 1:01:41
  be that person that hides behind it and lets it
• 1:01:44
  be my identity or if I want to live the life I
• 1:01:47
  want to live regardless yeah and so it's like I think that we
• 1:01:50
  can take those take the setbacks that are thrown at us and we can let them crush
• 1:01:55
  us and we can be miserable or we can just try and it's better to try yeah I
• 1:02:00
  don't want to sound mean with it but it's like you do have that's where you
• 1:02:03
  have the choice yeah that is the choice right there um but yeah so then to kind of circle back,
• 1:02:08
  I guess, back to your body is the least interesting thing about you.
• 1:02:12
  Our bodies are so capable of changing and adjusting.
• 1:02:17
  And I think like as humans, we are so resilient, like by nature.
• 1:02:20
  Real. That's just how we work. We are made to adapt in our brain.
• 1:02:24
  I was going to say the brain, I was saying the same thing, Mac.
• 1:02:26
  And that's so real. And so it's like we are resilient and we bounce back in all the things.
• 1:02:32
  And so even though our bodies are the least interesting things about us and
• 1:02:35
  about who we are, they are really cool.
• 1:02:38
  Yeah. And they do a lot for us. And so it's okay to want to value that.
• 1:02:43
  And it's okay to put the time in to yourself to work on that.
• 1:02:47
  And work on yourself and be who you want to be. Taking care of yourself, both mind and body.
• 1:02:54
  Because you are worth the changes and you are worth the effort.
• 1:02:57
  You are enough. You are enough. Can I ask you one more quick question?
• 1:03:00
  Yeah. So I remember having a friend of mine that had the weight loss surgery
• 1:03:05
  and he lost a ton of weight.
• 1:03:06
  And I told him he looked good. And he's one of the first people that ever said, I appreciate that.
• 1:03:10
  But he said, it makes me think that people didn't think I look good.
• 1:03:13
  Have you had any of those feet? Like when people say, okay, yeah.
• 1:03:17
  Mostly, mostly I'm just like, thank you for noticing. Okay. That feels good.
• 1:03:20
  Yeah. But there is still part of it. I was telling mom about this.
• 1:03:24
  People are so shallow and gross because I'm not even kidding.
• 1:03:28
  For two years people like didn't pay to like stop i was gonna
• 1:03:31
  say mac i get like oh the grocery store and
• 1:03:34
  i got checked out by like mom was like no you did a cafe real last night did
• 1:03:38
  you notice that by all the firemen in front of you look at me and you didn't
• 1:03:41
  when i wait i noticed that too yeah it's just so wild because it's true i wondered
• 1:03:46
  if you were noticing that and people are nicer to me now than they like just
• 1:03:50
  strangers yeah wild that's a whole other thing in itself But anyways,
• 1:03:54
  your worth is still there, regardless. Thank you. It's the bottom line, Tony.
• 1:03:59
  And nobody else. Thank you.
• 1:04:02
  But your body's least interesting about you, but it's still really cool.
• 1:04:05
  Okay. I was proud of you anyway, but I'm very proud of you now.
• 1:04:08
  More, but not more proud of you, but the same pride of you.
• 1:04:11
  More proud of you, but I was kind of. And you look the exact same and you're
• 1:04:15
  normal. I don't see. I'm all right.
• 1:04:19
  Okay. But are we back? Are we recording now forever, every single day again for the next few years?
• 1:04:23
  We've never done that in our entire life. How about weekly or every other week? Yeah, we can do that.
• 1:04:29
  We did it. Hey, check us out on TikTok. Mackie's still fun and Sid's in Switzerland for a month.
• 1:04:36
  So, but then when she comes back, you know, you're taking her job, right? No.
• 1:04:40
  No. We also go to the virtual couch. Yeah. On TikTok.
• 1:04:43
  At virtual couch on TikTok and at virtual.couch on the Instagram because we
• 1:04:48
  want to start doing some more lives there too. And Beauty by Mackie.
• 1:04:52
  And, okay, have you seen this one? Okay, for those watching,
• 1:04:55
  do you know I know a new one on Zoom? Watch this. Get ready.
• 1:05:01
  It's a rave. Oh my God. Isn't that funny with a smoke machine and everything?
• 1:05:05
  Okay. I hope that happens to you one time in therapy when you're having a crazy.
• 1:05:09
  That one hasn't. That one hasn't. Today I did another one where.
• 1:05:12
  That could be good. Yeah. But today I did another. I was doing something like
• 1:05:14
  this and I got the fireworks again.
• 1:05:16
  And that was really funny. You know, because I mean, it was like with a guy
• 1:05:19
  that was ready for it. There's the fireworks.
• 1:05:21
  But the best, the best ever though. I know they are.
• 1:05:24
  The best ever is like this one is so subtle. So subtle with this one right there.
• 1:05:28
  But i think it's so good the balloons good stuff okay mackie you're awesome
• 1:05:34
  you you are good okay love you bye everybody okay,
• 1:05:43
  i don't even know.