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Episode 241: UFO Berkshire Incident · Strange Stuff Podcast

• Andy: And everyone I'm Andy and we're back with Strange Stuff Podcast and it's a beautiful sunny morning. Mark: Yeah, and I'm Mark. Indeed. It is. So sunny, in fact, are you aware that there is almost a critical water shortage across many areas of Sweden? Andy: That is nonsense. This country is basically built on water. Mark: No, it's built mainly on granite, surrounded by water. Andy: There's more lakes in Sweden than any other country in the world. Except Lakeland. Mark: Wrong. Except Finland. Doesn't Finland have more lakes or is it Norway that has more lakes? Andy: I don't know, I thought Sweden was number one. Mark: was it anyway it's number one or two for sure no there's ⁓ you can't have your tap running when you're brushing your teeth exactly you can only flush the loo once a day Andy: ⁓ I best go and turn it off. Well, I've already broken that. Mark: ⁓ dear. Yeah. So, so what's going on in the world, Andy? Let's go straight to the current band. Have you got the sun up? Andy: You know what? I've got the current bun because they've started doing this. Every time you change the story, you get a pop-up. Are you sure you don't want to subscribe and get rid of the ads? And every click you make this fucking thing comes up and you have to close it. And it's just like, ⁓ this is just such a bad childish tactic to make people pay. Mark: ⁓ no. Yeah. ⁓ It's obviously successful. I mean I don't I don't pay for anything. I don't upgrade my Whatever accounts I have what's the one I think Facebook you get these four second ads now? Come up Andy: ⁓ right, on the phone you do. I don't think that happens on the PC. Mark: I know, I never use my PC other than when I'm talking to you actually. Though, funnily enough, talking of PCs, I have ordered ⁓ my CD reader, whatever the hell it's called, and that arrives today. It's amazing. Doesn't mean anything to non-Swedish people, but we've got a company called Net On Net, is it called? I mean, I ordered it yesterday afternoon and it's going to arrive today. Andy: But, the room. Yep. Yeah, it can happen. Not in Gilef, though. Mark: so no you're a bit distant you're a bit distant from everybody apart from the arctic circle which you still haven't been to Andy: Yeah, we're very close to Santa Claus. Mark: Yes, but no, so other than that we've got it as I say a beautiful day everything's everything's going forward with my little project. I've now got six tons of gravel that I have to spread out. Andy: You're going to do that by hand? Get some family and friends involved. Mark: Yeah. Well, the thing is that, you know, it sounds like how stupid you've got a digger machine on site. But the thing is that these sort of one or two hours, if you keep using it for bits and pieces, you have to pay, obviously. And suddenly the price starts escalating. It's already expensive enough. But anyway, that's my little project. Still got a cold three and a half weeks after I was down in Gothenburg. Andy: Those kitty colds will kill you. Mark: Yeah, yeah, kiddie colds are not good. But... ⁓ yes, good. Yes. Andy: Anyway, back to the current bun. There was a story yesterday that annoyed me so fucking much. And it was basically the front page and it was saying the British army, exclusive this was by the way, the British army needs to double in size urgently in a bid to thwart the Russian invasion. which is imminent. It's like, no, it's not. You fucking liars. When are people going to be starting to take, take into account for printing this fucking filth, this nonsense that they come up with? are not, the UK is not going to be invaded by Russia. They can barely invade Ukraine. Mark: Why do you think it's nonsense? Andy: They're not going to start fighting on more fronts. And for what reason would Putin invade the UK? There's nothing there. Mark: Strategically, it's not a bad place to be, England. Andy: It's a load of bollocks, all you can reach is France. That doesn't belong to the UK, so you're fucked with that. Mark: North Sea oil. Yeah, but if we're invaded, it doesn't matter who's on the contract. You're invaded. So when this Russian, when the Russian submarines are knocking on the oil rigs door and they're going to say, oh, no, we own this oil with a nuclear submarine pointing missiles at you. Andy: Of course it does, because the people who own the North Sea oil will go, ⁓ no, no, no, no, no. And you've got problem with us as well, mate. Look, it is not, it is not going to happen. Russia invading the UK is just as unlikely as America invading Canada. It's fucking nonsense. Mark: Well, the simple fact is that we live in a more risky environment. Andy: Also, also, also, also, sorry. The other point is it doesn't matter how many men you've got. Wars are fought with drones. There's no, no soldiers running towards each other firing Tommy guns anymore. That's just bullshit. Mark: What do you think is happening in Ukraine for Christ's sake? Andy: Nothing, nothing has happened in Ukraine. Prince Harry was there yesterday saying, what a brave nation you all are. Mark: You sound like a lunatic. You sound like one of those specifically chosen idiot Trump supporters that don't know the arse from their elbow. Is that the expression? Andy: Look, all this bollocks is just fucking world stage posturing. It's just division, it's just diversion tactics. It's just bullshit. Fucking Ukraine. Mark: What are you talking about? There is a war going on in Iran. There's a war going on with Israel. Andy: There is not a war going on in Iran. Right? There is Trump pretending to be winning a war and there's Iran saying, just fucking give it up. You're losing. Nothing's happening. Mark: What? You are a bit dismissive this morning. Did you have a bad night's sleep or something? Andy: I'm just fed up with it. It's just such bullshit. mean, Mark: You're fed up with it. I'm bloody fed up with it. I've got a car. Multiple cars. Andy: How many deadlines has Trump issued and let pass in the last three weeks alone? Mark: That is ridiculous. That really is ridiculous. I mean to... Andy: The guy's dick is limper than limp biscuit. Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's all madness, but I mean, that is one element of the madness that he keep. And in fact, that idiot Hesketh sacked his navy chief of the navy yesterday. Andy: Because he kept getting his ships hit by Iranian missiles. Mark: Well, probably because he kept saying to Haysketh, you're an idiot. Leave it to the professionals. What the hell are you doing, you idiot? Did we talk about the fact that he did that pulp? We must have done the pulp fiction. And then Trump did another Bible reading the other day. It's just absurd. Andy: Yeah. pole pitch and quote as if it came straight from the Bible. They're just fucking... It's like a stand-up comedy routine with them. Mark: Yeah, but I'm paying the price at the petrol pumps. As is our all the American people. I can't understand why he gets any support. Andy: not just the petrol pump. It's not just the petrol pumps your groceries are going up as well. Mark: absolutely fertilizer prices going sky high. No, it's all pretty madness. There's got to be some good stuff going on in the world, surely. Andy: Well, I was looking and all I could find was a scaffolding collapse on a 13 story building in Benidorm where two guys died. Mark: That's not exactly good news, is it Andy? Andy: A third was left hanging on the 11th floor on a railing and he was actually rescued by a neighbour. Mark: All right, well thank God for that. Benny Dorn, wasn't that the, where you had that BBC television series that you were talking about not so long ago, El Dorado? Andy: I, that could have been my bayer or it could have been benidorm. don't know. Mark: ⁓ thought you said Benidorm. Have you ever been to Benidorm? Andy: I have been to Spain a few times, but I'm unsure. I mean, I flew into ⁓ Alicante, I think, to get to Gibraltar. Mark: With you actually Yeah No Not to get jib. Allicante is uh halfway halfway up Andy: ⁓ Maybe it was Mallorca. Maybe it was Mallorca. Mark: I can't see. I've been to Alicante a couple of times. Andy: I have been to Alicante. I've been to a few places in Spain, but they're all very blurry. Mark: It's quite a nice country actually, especially if you head away from the coast inland. There's some pretty nice places. Andy: I like Spain. I like Spain and with their attitude towards Trump, I think if I had to relocate somewhere nice and warm and I had the money, it would be Spain at the moment. I would like to live in a country that stands up for its... Si, si senor. Dos cerveza. Mark: Do you speak any Spanish? C- Exactly, that's what everybody knows, two beers, what if there's three of you? Andy: That's for me. That's just mine. Because they're only little bottles you get over there. Mark: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ dear. Yeah. So we got a shortage of water in Sweden. We got a shortage of brain power in the leadership in America. We've got a shortage of balls when it comes to British leadership. I actually think Keir Starmer might lose it. Not lose it. I think he might go. Andy: He's going to have to go, but it will be after the May elections because nobody wants a leadership fight prior to the May elections. ⁓ That reminds me when you said no one's got any balls. Mark: prior to May. in. Is this a joke? Andy: It's the joke that I was supposed to say on Monday and I forgot all about it. So here we go. Mark: ⁓ god. Give me a signal when it's time to laugh. Andy: What do the twin towers and gender have in common? Mark: I don't know, what do they have in common? Andy: When we were boys there were only two of each. Mark: When we were boys there was only two of each. Is that a joke? Andy: Well, now there's no twin towers and there's a thousand different genders. You see? Mark: ⁓ I see. Yeah. Andy: Hopefully someone in the big wide world will get that. Mark: Well, I think they get it. It's just whether they find it funny or not. Who is your joke writer? You need to employ a better individual. Andy: Unfortunately, with their financials the way they are, I can't afford them. Mark: You have to rely on your own comedic skills. Why don't you watch that one-liner fellow, what's his name, Gary Delaney or something? Andy: There's so many of them and you know what, won't even, when it comes on Netflix now, stand up special, I don't even bother because 90 % of them are fucking shite. They are really, really rubbish. Mark: I don't know if it's just because I'm getting old, but I'll tell you what. It takes a hell of a lot more to get me laughing. I'm miserable. It takes a lot more to get me laughing. And it's the same with TV and films. It takes a hell of a lot more to grab my attention. It's just all such nonsense out there. So such a load of old bollocks. Andy: I watched a really fucking bad film the other day and it was supposed to be, it started off with this disclaimer saying that they've changed some of the details of this particular operation due to government sensitivity. And it was, it was about this operation fucking chariot or something. think the film was called chariot. No, the premise was that these seven or eight. Mark: Yeah. In the Second World War was this. Andy: strangers woke up on a plane. And it turns out that they were kidnapped by government operatives, put on the plane and they were being flown to a safe place because World War III had kicked off and they'd been chosen as survivors. there was supposed to be a hundred and odd people on this plane. was one of many planes. But these people had no idea what they were doing there. Mark: What, seven people? Yeah. Andy: All I remember is what they were doing before they woke up on the plane. It was fucking awful. And at the end they said, um, it's a real thing, but I didn't even bother checking on Google because no way, no way are you going to kidnap people with certain skill sets and put them on a plane against their will or knowledge. Leaving their families behind to burn in the nuclear hell. Mark: What was it? Alright, well come- Very nice. Here's one. And I don't know if it's it's a British production. Contrary to what I was just saying, there is a very good series on TV at the moment called The Capture. It's an English production about a soldier who an ex-soldier who is accused of murder. But it's very current. It's all to do with AI manipulation and stuff. Andy: at that. I have to say Arabella is getting very, very realistic. Mark: Yes. What are you talking about? She's so unrealistic she doesn't realise that I'm the senior partner in this collaboration. Andy: I mean, the last one that I did when she was a rocket scientist, her facial expressions are just fucking spot on. Mark: Especially when she said, Andy decides Mark, what was it? Mark does what he's told. Andy: That was a bit so hoot. Mark: I mean, obviously, your self-confidence in this relationship is pretty borderline if you have to resort to such weak commentary to support your position as boss man. Andy: Thank I don't know what you mean. I don't tell her what to say. She's absolutely an independent young lady. I would marry her. Mark: It was what she was doing with her screwdriver that amused me. Can't you give her instructions to actually shoot it? Yeah, exactly. Andy: She's a rocket scientist. That was a great little joke, wasn't it? It doesn't take a rocket scientist. ⁓ wait. Mark: ⁓ Anyway, so, so yeah It's still bloody cold here though. It was like two degrees when I got up this morning Andy: Alexa, what's the temperature? Right now it's five degrees celsius. Today, expect a high of 12 degrees. I'm gonna go to 12. Mark: out five. Yeah, no, because I want to start pruning my roses. Andy: Tim Roses. Mark: Yeah, pruning my roses. And then I've got to start spraying everything with anti-deer spray to keep the deer from eating everything. Andy: You should be encouraging dear to visit your garden. You should do some wilding. Mark: I don't know what that is, but you are joking. Andy: That means let your garden go nuts. Stop pruning and tending. Just let it go back to nature. Mark: Er... Ilva, she feeds the deer. And... No. It's not right. Andy: Is there like a herd waiting outside at 6.30pm every evening? Mark: No, in the winter there's between six and eight. And they're waiting there for a feed twice a day. It's not good. Because it upsets the natural balance and they lose the ability to go and forage for bloody food because they know that she's going to put out. She actually buys food that's called wildlife... Basically, it is. That's exactly what it is. Wildlife feed. Andy: That's right. Well that's good. You should be. Why not? Dear food. Mark: aimed at dear. It's not cheap, it's about a 30 quid a sack and she buys a sack probably every week or two. Andy: Bloody hell. My idea is same as cat food. Mark: I've counted 34 deer that I was able to look at simultaneously from my back window. 34 individual deer at one time. Andy: or individuals. Well then perhaps you should take your hunting license. Mark: Yeah, I don't think people shoot them. Andy: Well, of you should, dear. Mark: Not these little things. No, they're not. They're not big, you know, but they got antlers and things, but they're not the big ones. Do think I could get away with getting our bloody great big shotgun or whatever you shoot deer with a rifle? A rifle? Having said that, most people do have guns here. Most people, most people, 50 % of people have. Andy: We don't have to tell anyone, just shoot a few and... ⁓ No, you can't use a shotgun. Don't know. Mark: hunting rifles here. Andy: and they have more than one. Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Andy: They usually have a shotgun, a couple of rifles and for funsies they have a pistol or two. Yeah, they do. Yeah. Cause after you've had your hunting license for a year, you're allowed to apply for a pistol. Yeah. And a couple of people that I know who took their licenses while I knew them, they couldn't wait for that year to be up so they could start packing heat. Mark: Nah. No. Is that right? ⁓ my god. Yeah. Anyway, so other than that, we've done a summary of nothing in terms of what's going on in the world. Andy: It's fucking true. It's fucking true. ⁓ nothing is happening. mean, it's basically status quo. Mark: Yep, all right. And I don't even have the Formula One to enjoy at the moment. Andy: Okay. Oh, that's another thing. Your, your favourite driver who's allegedly dating Kim Kardashian. That's a relationship of convenience if I ever heard of one. Mark: Lewis. Yeah, what is that? But why does Lewis Hamilton need a relationship of convenience? Andy: Well, because he doesn't want everyone to that he's gay. Mark: I don't know why you think he's gay. Andy: It'll come out one day, mate. Have you seen the way he dresses? Hmm, that's right. He's a friend of Dorothy, no mistake. Mark: Fashionably. What does that mean? He's a friend of Dorothy? Andy: That's what they used to refer to each other as when they were checking out whether someone else was gay in the 70s, 60s and 70s. And it's a Wizard of Oz reference. Are you a friend of Dorothy's? Because Wizard of Oz was obviously a gay film. Mark: Mm-hmm. Wizard of Oz was a gay film. Andy: It's one of those films that... I might get into trouble for this, but it's one of those films that gay people love. Mark: Yeah, but, err... I dunno why. Andy: Or perhaps it was just, who was it you played, Dorothy? Mark: Er, the one who had a sad end. Liza Minnelli's mum. Andy: Yeah. Liza Minnelli's mommy. But apparently she was a gay icon. So. Mark: I wonder how you become a gay icon. wonder why. Because she wasn't gay was she? She had a pretty horrible life but... Andy: No, it doesn't matter. mean, Abba are gay icons. Kylie Minogue is a gay icon. Mark: Hmm. And funny enough, would the village people be described as gay icons even though they were obviously gay? Andy: No. No, they were just a gay band. Mark: Yeah, I used to, I remember, no, yeah, but I remember why YMCA wasn't that big one, that big hit. Andy: dancers and village people. Did you used to do the YMCA? Yeah. And then of course they had the, in the Navy, which the American government decided would be great to use as an advert for recruitment for the Navy without realizing that the song was all about shagging sailors. Mark: But it can't be against the rules. You're to be gay in the army in America, can't you? Andy: Not in those days, certainly. No, no, no, that was an immediate dismissal. Yeah. Same as in the British army. It was illegal. Not just against the rules, but actually illegal. Mark: Mm. Was it? ⁓ I can't even remember the name of Liza Maneli's mum. Andy: No, it's terrible isn't it? Mark: She... I can't remember if she actually committed suicide in the end, didn't she? I'll Google it. The only thing is I might have to ask you how to spell Minnelli. Andy: No, just Google Wizard of Oz. That'll be the easiest way. Mark: ⁓ yes, Internet Movie Database, Wizard of Oz, good thinking. Andy: That's why I'm the brains of the operation. Mark: talking about brains, so I ordered my CD reader and I realised they've got three old laptops sitting here that are all redundant with CD draws. Andy: How did you not know that? Mark: Well, it's just I don't, I don't, that's how my brain doesn't, Julie Garland, Judy Garland, that my brain doesn't work. So funny enough, I actually plugged one in this morning and it wouldn't take charge, but it's 25 years old. It's an old Dell. Andy: Judy Garland. ⁓ Mark: So anyway. Andy: They are set with an internal clock to go absolutely dead after six years. Mark: ⁓ yes, well it is, I think it is literally, it's one I brought across from England so it's more than 20 years old. Andy: Well, talking of 20 years old or more than 20 years old. Mark: ⁓ dear. Yes, was that a segue into supposedly a subject? Andy: We could have used Arabella as a rocket scientist because we're going to talk about rockets, sort of, but we're going to talk about UFOs in particular. No, but I mean, there's plenty of UFO stories. We're going to talk about the Berkshire sighting, but this is Berkshire in Massachusetts, unfortunately. But to get there. Mark: Well, we haven't done that before. ⁓ Berkshire in England. ⁓ god. Andy: The reason I thought of UFOs for this week was another story that I read, was pertaining to a secret diary that was kept by someone who was involved in the Roswell incident. Mark: what has come to light. Andy: that's been discovered or handed in by the family recently. yeah, the Dead Sea Scrolls. But anyway, first a little recap, 1947, when an unidentified craft reportedly crashed not far from the US military base in Roswell, New Mexico. Mark: What, like the Red Sea Scroll discovery type thing? Or even the Dead Sea Scrolls? Andy: And there was a Roswell Army Air Force intelligence officer called Jesse Marcel. And he was dispatched to the scene to determine what had happened. And when news of the crash became public and the military issued an initial press release stating that they had uncovered a flying disc, sparking rumors of an alien encounter. Not long afterwards, of course, the military backtracked. and claimed the debris had actually come from a weather balloon. But not everyone was convinced, of course. And the episode became known as the Roswell Incident and spawned conspiracy theories of a government cover-up over an alien encounter. Anyway, recently uncovered is Marcel's diary belonging to Officer Marcel, which may hold the key to what happened. So according... Well... Mark: May. It may hold the key. It may not hold the key to what happened. Andy: You'll see. According to Live Science, Officer Marcel's family revealed the existence of a secret journal that he had kept during investigations into the Roswell crash. Mark: So do we not know what rank he was? Andy: I did tell you, I did tell you in the beginning, but I'm not going to go back. Mark: You call him officer. Can't you just scroll up a bit? Andy: ⁓ The crash landing of the Roswell UFO was first discovered on the morning of July 3rd, 1947 by a rancher, Mack Brazel. Brazel found the strange debris scattered across 200 square yards near a service road where he worked. Brazel's first description of the object in the press was that it was made of paper-y material layered with shiny foil. He also described pieces of lat-weight wood and plastic. Which to me sounds a little bit like balsa wood and polythene but... Mark: So is it indisputable that there was some sort of crash in Roswell in 1947? Andy: It depends. I mean if- If the military have like flapped and gone straight to the press and said, found a spaceship. I would rather believe that than when they backtrack and go, ⁓ no, it was a balloon. I would say that there was definitely a crash. Mark: of some description. But it could have been an aircraft, could have been anything. Andy: Yes. No, no. Some of the debris had weird symbols etched onto it and spongy bits of rubber. Brazel reported the discovery to the Sheriff who passed on that information to the nearby airbase. Mark: So you see this is where all these sort of stories fall apart at the first, sorry to spoil the fun Andy, but he's literally describing an aircraft. Shiny metal, wood, tissue. I mean, he's describing an aeroplane. Andy: But don't forget there were other witness statements. was, because I think it was Bezel who took a piece home and this shiny metal was actually, you could literally fold it and it would unfold itself and go back to its normal natural shape. It was really weird. It was of course confiscated by the air force. Marcel's grandson, Jesse, told the Daily Mail, good source, that Mark: Not the Daily Mail in England. Andy: I would imagine it's the Daily Mail in New Mexico, that he had examined the debris in the field and determined that it was not made by human hands. So this is the grandson of Marcel, who was the field commander in the Air Force. And he decided that it was not made by human hands. Mark: Alright. This is the grandson. And the grandson was what? Four years old at the time? Three or four. Andy: No, no, no. The Air Force, the Air Force superintendent major was determined it was not made by human hands and it's his grandson who's relaying that information. Mark: ⁓ It wasn't that his grandson when he was three years old determined that it wasn't. Andy: No, he's going to something insane. fucking aliens made that. That's a fucking alien, mate. That's not made by human hands, that's fucking alien. You see? So if Marcel's secret journal is authentic, it could be one of the first real clues behind the Roswell mystery, which has essentially become law, even among former members of the intelligence community. The government claimed that they had recovered a UFO and they had a press release about it, said Ben Smith, a former CIA operative and the lead investigator on the History Channel's show Roswell, the First Witness. I didn't see that one, but I should have to look it up. Mark: nor me. Andy: No other government in the world has said we have a spacecraft. And then the next day there's another press release that says, ⁓ nevermind. It was just a balloon. So Marcel's alleged Roswell journal is the centerpiece of a history channel show. Interestingly enough, Marcel's journal was written in a coded language that only he understood. Mark: ⁓ god. Andy: signalling that he must have had sensitive inflammation in it. Decades after the incident, Marcel told an interviewer that he believed the UFO they uncovered definitely had extraterrestrial origins. To make matters more suspicious, there had been another UFO sighting weeks before. Kenneth Arnold, a fighter pilot, recorded an encounter with more than one mysterious object, which he described as white spheres that skipped like flying saucers through the air. And when we covered that, you'll remember that that was where they actually coined the phrase flying saucers. While the Roswell incident has become canon among alien hunting sleuths, Arnold's encounter was the earliest recorded UFO sighting in the US. But still, why was Roswell such a big deal and why are people still enamored by the legend? It all starts in Roswell, Smith contends, it's the origin story of the UFO, the prospect of a government cover up for alien contact. Science fiction already existed, but things that passed to us through pop culture found their origins in government secrecy surrounding this strange sequence of events in 1947. We're still waiting for the contents of Marcel's secret diary. Mark: ⁓ what? The premise of this bloody production is so paper thin so we don't even know what's in the diaries. I thought that's what the story was about. Andy: Well, because he wrote it in a coded language that only he understood, we really need him to decipher it. Aha. Mark: He's dead! But is he? Andy: Aha, perhaps he's actually touring the galaxy on one of his UFOs. Anyway, on to Berkshire. So on, yeah, this is the story we came here for. Mark: This is ridiculous. What? What was all of this preamble then? Andy: Well, it was just a reference because I said that I spotted this story about this secret diary on Roswell. Mark: that we don't know what the content, what it contains. Andy: Well, I didn't want to ruin the whole story. Think about how excited you were halfway through that story, waiting for the... Mark: You're bloody right, but it turns out it could have been a shopping list. Andy: Yeah, yeah, or it could have been like a to-do list around the house. Mark: Well I hope it goes up from here this bloody story. So what is this UFO in Berkshire not England? Andy: Just don't hold your fucking breath. So on September the 1st, 1969, about 40 people in Berkshire County, Massachusetts reported seeing a UFO. And one boy named Thomas Reed claimed that he and his family were taken aboard. So in 1969, residents of Berkshire County, Massachusetts went into a panic after multiple people reported seeing this UFO. And the furore of the sighting reached far beyond the area and captivated people all over America. In Roswell, New Mexico, a replica of the alleged vessel was even displayed at the International UFO Museum, which now stands there. I didn't even know they had a UFO museum in Roswell. But I suppose why not? Mark: And what does it look like? Well it's going to be there if anywhere, isn't it? Andy: Yeah. So this extraterrestrial episode will be one of the most bizarre cases dissected on the Unsolved Mysteries series on Netflix. And here's the strange story behind the incident. On the evening of September the first, strange lights descended upon the town of Sheffield, located in the southern Berkshires. And many who saw these lights said that they were attached to a UFO. Heather Bellow. ⁓ who was a member of the Berkshire, Edgyelm, I can't even say that word. But anyway, she eventually ended up raising funds to build a monument for it, but we'll get into that. According to witness accounts, the UFO in question was a disc shaped craft that performed acrobatic maneuvers in the sky above the Berkshires. And it's unclear how long this actually went on for, but many witnesses have alleged UFO encounters often describe losing track of time. So it's a bit up in the air ambiguous. The Berkshires themselves is a region of rural highlands in Western Massachusetts, and it encompasses large swathes of wilderness, making it a popular tourist destination for hikers and nature lovers during the summer. The barges are also made up of mostly small towns, which in the case of curious extraterrestrial beings makes it a pretty ideal spot to visit. Jimmy Emerson, at Flickr Sheffield, where many of the witnesses resided, has a population of a little over 3,000 people. However, the seemingly brief UFO encounter was apparently powerful enough to leave a lingering sense of mass confusion in its wake. Schoolchildren were drawing UFOs in class, while adults called into local radio stations to explain what they had seen. We had listeners called a radio station that evening said David Icy, general manager of radio station WSBS. At the time, they didn't know it was a UFO. They just, you know, called the station to say something bizarre has happened. Many people who saw the strange lights on the vessel that night were left bewildered. Nobody seemed to know really what they saw, but they knew that they saw something. The incident has since been dubbed the very catchy 1969 Berkshire UFO. And as we said, it was estimated about 40 people reported seeing the UFO. And some of them who were children at the time still live in the area today. The children were coming into school talking about the event said Robert Crowell, who is the director of the Great Barrington Historical Society. An old student of mine, one is a local shop owner whose father was the police chief in town. So these are reliable people. These are not self-promoters. The witness accounts were so plentiful and compelling that the local Great Barrington Historical Society recognised the encounter as the first off-world UFO case in US history, about 45 years later. But did the 1969 Berkshire Mark: I can see this story is going to end up. was a... You know it's a weather balloon and all of this is just... Andy: Well, no, whether or not you believe the witness stories, the Barcher News folks... Mark: What so far all we've had is they saw lights in the sky. Andy: That is technically a witness story. So whether or not you believe these witness stories, the marching UFO was no doubt a remarkable event for the townspeople of Sheffield. And while many have admitted to seeing the UFO vessel or its strange lights, the most prominent eyewitness is by far Thomas Reed. According to his account, he saw the UFO when he was nine years old on that September 1st, while he was in the car with his mother. Mark: What the? Andy: grandmother and brother. As Reed recalled, the family was heading home from their restaurant village on the green and he was busy giving his brother a little fireball candy. Suddenly they noticed a mass of glowing lights peeking out from behind the lush trees on the empty road. The strange lights continued to spill out from behind the trees as the family crossed the covered Sheffield bridge, but they didn't know what to make of it. We all looked at it because it was kind of a self-contained glow, Thomas Reed said. It rose up a little bit. It looked like it followed the dirt road, which I'm sure it probably didn't, but it appeared that way because we could see it through the trees. The light started to bleed through once we broke into a little bit of a clearing. We could see inside the car, so the light was flooding inside the car. After an amber glow emerged on both sides of the road, Reed recalled being taken to a hangar-like area that was bigger than a football field. We encountered something, Reed said. It was definitely not of this world. We had a black and white television at the time, and the imagery that we saw on this thing was unbelievable. There were lights that looked like fluorescent tubing inside this hangar. The hallway that we had seen was circular with a wire configuration, almost to control the flow of traffic. This one room had a bowed in wall that was rounded, and this wasn't something that you would have seen in 1969 anywhere else. I have no idea where I was, but I know that what I saw was very different than anything I've seen even today, 50 years later. Mark: But hang on a second. How did he transition from being in the back of his car giving his brother some sweetie and suddenly he's in this...hangar? Andy: That's the way abductions happen. Mark: What do mean? No! Andy: Have you never been abducted? ⁓ well, basically that's what happens. One minute you're making toast and deciding whether or not to have honey or jam on said toast. And the next thing is you've got something stuck up your bum with ET looking down on you with either lust or... Mark: But if he's the nine-year-old in the car, what happened to the adults in the car and their recollection of this hangar-like illuminated extraterrestrial facility? Andy: The nine-year-old was the... you see the problem is with adults is they tend to clam up and won't say anything in case people think they belong in the booby hatch. Mark: So you're saying if you were abducted by aliens, the thing you'd be worried about is reporting it because people would think you're mad. Andy: I wouldn't report being abducted by aliens. Mark: Don't be ridiculous, of course you would you tell me for a start. Andy: ⁓ I might tell you, but I certainly wouldn't report it to any authorities. Mark: What, if you had disappeared off with a bloody blue velour suited men probing your nether regions, you wouldn't report it? Andy: full utility belts. I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't report it. Why would I report it? What are the authorities going to do except try and shoot something down? That's their answer to everything. Mark: But the f- But... But there's the mother, there's the grandmother, and there's the brother. Where are their stories? Andy: Grandmother probably got a good probing. She was just grateful. bit of a while. Anyway, glimpses of this strange place muddied his brain until he realized they were back inside the car. And his grandmother and his mother had switched seats. More astonishingly, there were no more glowing lights, Thomas Reed said. The 1969 Barcha UFO incident will also be the subject of an episode on Mark: ⁓ Andy: unsolved mysteries. Everything got really calm. It was like being in the middle of a hurricane. There was like a barometric change in pressure. It was just like a dead silence. Then there was an eruption of crickets and frogs and it got really loud. And that was it, Reed said, adding that it was all quite confusing. Mark: So it couldn't possibly be the most obvious explanation is that this kid fell asleep in the back of the car and had a dream. Andy: Well no, because he remembers the fire candy. You don't go to sleep when you're eating candy. Mark: No, he gave the fire candy to his brother. Andy: Which in itself is suspicious because kids do not share candy. But anyway, Reed has been the most vocal witness to the 1969 Berkshire UFO incident and he helped convince other witnesses to pool money together to erect a £5,000 concrete monument, which was built by the covered Sheffield Bridge where he saw the UFO with his family. Benching and lighting decorations were also placed around the monument after it was erected. Now I've seen pictures of this and it basically looks like a garage. I think it might well have been. But later, Reid formed the non-profit UFO Monument Park Incorporated, or yeah, Corporation II, to maintain the plot of land where the monument stood. Now, there was a bit of a small town controversy because the Berkshire UFO monument was the subject of growing tensions in Sheffield before it was actually removed in 2019. Word of the 1969 Berkshire UFO reached beyond Sheffield. In Roswell, as I said, the International UFO Museum put up a display of the alleged Berkshire craft. Although the town of Sheffield seemed to embrace the Berkshire UFO at first, the novelty of the story has worn off among some residents over recent years. Disagreements between those who believe the UFO monument marked a significant event in the town's history and those who saw the monument as basically an eyesore began to boil over. So in 2019, just about four years after it was erected, The town removed the monument. And the town attorney's assessment was that the monument had been erected on town property, ⁓ which quickly paved the way for lawful removal. Reid said that he would fight the town's decision. According to him, there were no issues with the town officials during the plans to build the monument, but officials painted a different story. It's kind of on-town property and no one decided it could go there, said the town administrator, Ronda Labomba. The town has bylaws and if we let one person put something up, then why can't somebody else? I don't want that to happen. Mark: You see, so this whole bloody story is based on some nine-year-old kid having a dream in the back of his car, and now we're talking about bloody town planning applications being ill. What I don't understand is how on the thinnest, and I'm talking thinnest down to nanometers of thin, of evidence, Andy: and 40 other witnesses. 40 other witnesses. Mark: you're all gung-ho about bloody alien activity in Berkshire, whatever the hell it is, and yet you actually see a rocket leaving the earth and shooting up into the sky, bloody photographs of the earth, you can literally see the rocket going up and you say, ⁓ no, but that's all bollocks, it was all done in a film studio. So how is it you believe the UFO stories and yet you don't believe the evidence of your own eyes when it comes to rockets and such like? It's just ridiculous. Your brain is completely upside down. You know, we spend our time criticizing Trump. You would be the Trump supporter in America. Andy: Good. strapped for time you idiot. They're strapped for time here. have to move this on. Mark: What do you mean, move it on? hasn't come from anywhere and it's not going anywhere. Andy: Now, we need to find out more about the land survey. according, well, I'm going to tell you. Mark: Whatland Survey. Where the monument's going? Who's interested? Andy: I am. According to a town land survey, the monument's location was on a town right of way and had to be removed. Mark: But we're not interested! Andy: But we are, if you were one of the neighbors, you would be very interested. So there's at least one person. Mark: But I'm not, am I? I don't know any neighbours. I'm never going to go there and I'm not interested in town planning applications. Andy: To add insult to injury, other parties withdrew their public support for the monument as well. In 2018, a spokesperson for Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker, whose signature was sealed onto the UFO monument, told the Boston Globe that the signature had actually been issued in error. And the Great Barrington Historical Society which described the UFO site in a significant and true in 2015 backpedaled on its support as well. Mark: So we're developing into literally a non-story. We've been talking for 25-30 minutes about a non-story. What's interesting to me is this fellow, Reid, do you know how old he is? Andy: Well, he was nine in 67, so he'd be 65, 66 maybe. Mark: So he's 66. He's still around, he's 66 years old. Andy: Yeah. Mark: Why can't people just question him? Get him to do a polygraph? Andy: Look, you couldn't tell us what happened to you last week. Mark: Precisely. So why are we listening to this bloke if something happened to him bloody 59 years ago? Andy: Back to the Great Barrington Historical Society. I think the historical society regrets that our words or our decision has been taken out of context, said Kroll, who added that the incident was significant to the town, but the organization shouldn't have focused on one individual, an obvious reference to read. In 2019, After there were no efforts by Thomas Reed and his colleagues to remove the structure, the town hauled away the monument for good. The monument was removed at considerable expense to the town, said Selectman Martin Mitsoff, who couldn't give the precise cost of the removal for some reason. Mark: What do you think this fellow Mitzoff had for lunch on that day? Andy: He probably went to the local burger joint. Mark: because that is about as interesting as the culmination of this story. Whether he had a sandwich for lunch or whether he went full out on burgers and chips. Andy: Unfortunately, the party responsible was not responsive. Meanwhile, Reid said, Mark: I'm almost non-responsive, for God's sake! Andy: Meanwhile, Reed said that he and his colleagues would fight the removal, but it was too late. So despite the human drama surrounding the event, the Barcher UFO sighting continues to fascinate UFO enthusiasts from all over the world, including me and you. Mark: No, no it doesn't. Andy: Perhaps the Unsolved Mysteries episode could bring you just a little bit closer to answers and of a time resolution. Mark: You are joking that Netflix is doing a program about this? It's just absurd. I mean really? They must be so desperate for stories on Netflix that some poor kid fell asleep, maybe choked on his sweetie. Had a bit of a nightmare. Andy: How do you think I feel when I'm trying to find subjects to talk about? Mark: ⁓ god, dear. Andy: No, that's, I mean, that's quite a famous UFO incident and it's well regarded worldwide. Mark: Yeah, but it just establishes the level of bollocks that all these UFO sightings are. If this is a well-known one that's based on nothing... Andy: I wouldn't say nothing. Mark: ⁓ my god. Andy: 40 independent witnesses saw lights in the sky. Anyway, that brings us to the end of that story of the Barcher UFO. Mark: That is it, is it? Can't you find another planning application that went haywire that we can talk about in Berkshire? Somewhere I'm never going to go. Andy: Funnily enough, there was a resolution being tabled by the governor. but that's interesting stuff. Mark: I wonder how many Trump monuments are going to end up in court in some some what's this arc arc de trump Andy: Can you imagine the removal cost of all Trump's little statues and memorabilia to himself? Mark: Well, it's the ballroom that's going to cost a bloody fortune. Andy: Are they actually building that? Mark: Yeah, it's back on. It's back on. But what I'm waiting to see go up is this arc to triumph, to trump. Have you heard about this? Andy: I'm leaving. Octi Trump. No. Are they not? mean, the guy's ego knows no bounds. Mark: Anyway, ⁓ well that was a good one Andy. Well done. Yep. Good research. Well researched. Fascinating story. Andy: Trumpingham Palace. Trumpingham Palace. That will be the next one. Mark: Yes Exactly. Yeah, is the king still going there? Andy: He's been. ⁓ And Trump, I think, was trying to steer him towards an Oval Office Press interview thing, but the King refused and said he would do private tea. And that was the limit of his cooperation. Mark: The King hasn't been to America. Andy: Yes he has. Mark: No he hasn't. Andy: Yes. Mark: Why was there absolutely no public? No, no. Andy: Because it wouldn't let Trump capitalize on the fact that they were sitting together having fucking tiffin. He didn't give Trump the opportunity to use him as propaganda. Mark: No. Andy: Yes. Mark: when is king ⁓ ling that was funny do you know the ⁓ the woman senator who's a bit nutty bo bart or whatever her name is she kept referring to him as king george she didn't know his name was king charles she thought it was king george Andy: or one of them. So. That's kind of the limit of most Americans per view of the United Kingdom. Mark: going to visit America. This must be thrilling for visit visit America. When is King Charles going to visit America? 27th to the 30th of April. It hasn't happened yet. Andy: Well, I read that it had already happened, who knows what to believe. Mark: Well, this is where I don't know what this is some AI generated thing Wikipedia. Andy: ⁓ well, Wikipedia is written by you and me, so who knows? Mark: No, but that's what it is anyway. They can't get something as basic as that wrong. Andy: Anyway, that brings us to the end of this week's thrilling episode. I hope you enjoyed it at home. I know Mark enjoyed it. Mark: We hope. All right. Yeah, yeah, it was thoroughly entertaining. That was a perfect way to spend the first hour of my Thursday morning. Andy: Come. You can't wait for the next thrilling episode. Mark: No, literally. Andy: So, ⁓ have yourselves a strange. yeah. Listen. I've had no feedback on the mug. seems like apathy out there. Nobody cares. So I'm just going to continue using it unless I get some feedback. But don't forget to follow us, like us, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, etc. And spread the word to all your friends. Get us out there. And also don't forget to become a Patreon. Mark: Alright. Andy: If you're not one already, we've got so many more episodes and we are approaching our 250th episode and I will have something special for that particular episode. Mark: Yeah, I'm sure. I can't wait. Andy: In the meantime have yourselves a strange week. Don't go getting abducted, don't get probed, but if you do, picks please and let me have the exclusive. Bye for now. Mark: Cheerio!