Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E304: Jesus Has a Name For You and It Changes Everything w/Jamie Winship | Lila Rose Show

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E304: Jesus Has a Name For You and It Changes Everything w/Jamie Winship | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  Simply, our true identity is defined by who God says we are.
• 0:03
  When you're self protecting and self promoting, then you're
• 0:06
  never going to operate in the truth of who you really are.
• 0:09
  I was asking what would Jesus do to end drug problems in a
• 0:12
  neighborhood? He would go find the drug dealer
• 0:14
  and probably go eat dinner with him.
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  And so that's what I did. I was in uniform and I asked him
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  to spend the weekend. At your house.
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  He spent the weekend. I believe that God's inviting me
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  to hear. Why aren't you walking towards
• 0:24
  that? And I promise you, the reason
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  you're not here, you're afraid. When the enemy comes to Jesus,
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  the temptation is if you are the Son, it's an assault immediately
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  on the identity that God has given him.
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  When we believe the accusation and deception, we empower the
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  enemy. The enemy doesn't have the power
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  till we give. It we have this crisis today, I
• 0:43
  believe, of people not really living in their identity despite
• 0:48
  all the little tools out there that's.
• 0:49
  Right. We don't just.
• 0:51
  Get back. It seems like the modern world
• 0:52
  today often defines identity by superficial things like your
• 0:57
  sexuality, your job, your career.
• 1:01
  And I shouldn't say it's totally superficial that these things do
• 1:04
  matter. But what would you say our true
• 1:07
  identity is defined by? Well, I mean simply, our true
• 1:10
  identity is defined by who God says we are.
• 1:14
  That's simply it. Who does God say that I am?
• 1:17
  And that very powerful phrase of I am, when you ask God, God's
• 1:23
  identity, and God says I am that I am.
• 1:27
  He's the he's the core of existence and life itself.
• 1:30
  Then the question would be then to the Lord, who do you say that
• 1:35
  I am? Who do you say that I am not?
• 1:38
  What do I do? Not what did you make me for?
• 1:41
  But who? Who do you say that I am?
• 1:43
  Because being always informs, doing always, whether whether
• 1:48
  you agree with that or not, what you do is because of how you see
• 1:53
  yourself, what you believe, who you believe yourself to be.
• 1:57
  And it it can't be avoided that that is, you are going to give
• 2:00
  away what you believe yourself to be, who you believe yourself
• 2:04
  to be. If someone is listening right
• 2:05
  now, Jamie, who feels like they're not fully where they
• 2:08
  need to be in life, they're not fully there, what advice would
• 2:12
  you give to them? We call it the check in process.
• 2:15
  Really it's just the process from Scripture that we find
• 2:18
  which is, which is, yeah, I mean in sort of liturgical terms,
• 2:23
  it's confession, repentance, transformation.
• 2:27
  In another way to say it, confession is truth telling,
• 2:30
  repentance is mind change, and transformation is form change.
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  So confession, repentance, transformation.
• 2:38
  I was raised that that meant. I'm sorry.
• 2:41
  I'm really, really sorry, and I hope I never do that again.
• 2:45
  It's not effective. That's all willpower.
• 2:47
  That's all that is. And willpower doesn't work,
• 2:49
  especially in in trauma. Confession is truth telling.
• 2:53
  So truth telling. When I tell God the truth about
• 2:57
  what I believe about God, about myself and about others, the
• 3:01
  truth of what I really believe, that's confession.
• 3:04
  Confession, truth telling leads to freedom, always.
• 3:08
  So confession allows for mind change.
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  You're never going to, no one's ever going to change their mind
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  if they never tell the truth. I mean, This is why we're always
• 3:17
  stuck in these arguments that no one can get out of because no
• 3:20
  one will tell the truth. And I'll tell you what the truth
• 3:22
  is in a minute. But so you have to have truth
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  telling before you can have any sort of mind change.
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  You cannot have form change unless you have mind change.
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  So no matter what you do, you can go in and force form change.
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  You can do it. You can try it all day long.
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  Empires try this all the time in forced form change.
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  But nothing changes, nothing gets better.
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  And the old patterns will just start again with a new leader,
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  so to speak. So this is this is the ancient
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  way of the gospel truth tell mind change, form change.
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  So when a person says I'm stuck, first of all, that's never a
• 4:02
  true statement. No one has ever stuck.
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  That's just that's something, a conclusion they've come to based
• 4:08
  on external circumstances. But truth telling always begins
• 4:13
  in a human. Our question always to every
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  human is especially if they're frustrated or stuck, is tell me
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  what you're afraid of. That's what it is.
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  What are you afraid of? The fear.
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  Humans can only make decisions either out of fear or love.
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  That's the only two options we have, fear or love.
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  Ultimately it doesn't matter what your background is, what
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  religion you're from, what you believe about God or not.
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  You either. Your motivation is either love
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  or fear. And let's face it, 99% of us
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  make decisions solely out of fear.
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  Not necessarily. I'm a coward, but I'm self
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  protecting and self promoting all the time.
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  That's what I'm doing. And so when you're self
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  protecting and self promoting, right, then you're never going
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  to operate in the truth of who you really are because, because,
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  because you can't connect with other people really.
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  So we always ask people either just tell me straight out, tell
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  me what you're most afraid of in life or today, or what is the
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  main negative emotion that you're dealing with on a regular
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  basis. One of those two, they're
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  diagnostic questions. And all we're what we're getting
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  the person to do is just learn to tell the truth.
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  I'm afraid of those people. I'm afraid of them.
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  I'm afraid of having no money. I'm afraid of having these
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  people in charge of me, whoever they are, I'm afraid of it.
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  So, OK, so based on that fear, what do you believe about
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  yourself? What does that say about you?
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  I'm powerless, right? I'm powerless.
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  I have to find some way to self protect and self promote against
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  these fears. And when people are making those
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  sorts of decisions, the result is always conflict, unavoidable.
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  It results in conflict. So at the most human level,
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  that's, that's what I say to people, we're stuck.
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  We can't get out of this situation.
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  So what how does that make you feel?
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  Afraid. Afraid of what?
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  That I'm powerless. That's an identity statement.
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  I am powerless. That's an identity statement,
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  right? It's not a condition, it's an
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  identity statement. OK, What does a powerless person
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  do? Either they fight or they give
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  up in some form or fashion. That's their only two options,
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  right? What does a powerless group do?
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  They either fight or they give up and or they their expression
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  is either we're going to go, we're going to go prove that we
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  are powerful or we're going to destroy ourselves in some form
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  or fashion. We'll self medicate or whatever
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  and destroy us. I mean, it's that basic, it's
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  that simple. And we just complicate it with
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  more fear. So that's kind of how we
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  operate. All right, so there's so much to
• 7:05
  unpack there and I want to walk through how you approach people
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  truly listening for God's voice. And you, you help people with
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  this practice of better understanding God's voice and
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  their true identity and how to live in that freedom so they can
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  become, you know, The Who they are called to be.
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  I want to go back a few steps towards how you got into the
• 7:28
  identity business slash mission. What was it that first got you
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  even aware that this was a problem of people not
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  understanding their true identities and then seek to find
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  a solution for it? Right.
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  Yeah. So it's a bit of a process and
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  it's a bit of revisionist. Of course, you learn something
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  in your life and you go backwards and go, oh, that's
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  where that's why I believe that because you're not thinking
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  about it in the process, unfortunately, we, we could be
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  and we should be, but we're not. And we could teach kids how to
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  be doing it pretty regularly instead of when they're 50
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  deciding, wow, I don't even know what I'm doing.
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  And so for me though, I always wanted to be a police officer.
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  And so I was on my way to that. Even my experience in deciding
• 8:14
  that, and this is important, that that's what I wanted to be.
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  That's how I would say it. It isn't what I wanted to do,
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  it's what I wanted to be. This isn't really important when
• 8:23
  you're talking to kids, not what do you want to do because that
• 8:26
  sets them on the wrong path. What do you want to be or who do
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  you want to be? So anyway I had this experience
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  watching a movie like a lot of people do and I saw this movie
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  about a police officer and and it.
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  How old were you, Jamie? 1414 and I was raised in a
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  family where going to movies was ungodly, right?
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  So even the environment in my I'm in, I was taught externally
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  that this environment is a place where God can't speak, right?
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  So I have a notion already built into me that there are locations
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  on earth where God cannot work or be, which is, you know, can't
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  be true. But I know lots of people that
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  think this way anyway, so I'm 14, I know God can't go into a
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  theater. So for me to go in the theater
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  is an act of rebellion, right? So I'm in there, the movie comes
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  on and it's this beautiful movie.
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  It won the Academy Award that year.
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  And it's about a police officer and, and I, and this thing
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  happens inside of me that I'd never experienced before.
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  The beauty of the music, the skill of the acting.
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  It's like you're eating a really good meal.
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  You don't, you're not a chef. You don't know what it is
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  exactly, but wow, do you know it's there.
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  And so I, I've never experienced anything like this in the, this,
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  the story, the story arc, all of it is so beautiful to me that it
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  names me. That's, you know, the literary
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  term it call it calls me, which is very beautiful and very human
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  and very divine. Actually, it's very romantic and
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  so that's happening inside of me and I actually start crying, but
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  I don't know why. Like I don't know why because it
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  feels very spiritual to me, but I know spiritual is not allowed
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  in this location. This is what messes us up.
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  It's all been defined to me where these things can and
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  cannot occur and what it looks like.
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  So that's a very narrow view of it all.
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  So art has a very narrow view. Anyway, I feel a sense of
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  calling to this character more than anything else.
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  And so I, I, I, I do what I do in our religious tradition was
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  if you have a conviction, you have to go forward and make some
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  kind of commitment. I mean, that's all I know.
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  Like God can't do anything from the back row.
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  You got to go forward. And so at the end of the movie,
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  I went forward like I, it's what you do.
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  And so I went forward. At the end of the movie,
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  everyone left. I'm just standing there crying
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  at the front of the auditorium, looking up at the projector
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  saying that's what I want to be. That's what I want to be.
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  And I make a commitment to the sky be again, because I
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  couldn't, I didn't understand how God would be here.
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  He he's limited to places. And so and I just make a
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  commitment that I'm going to be a police officer and it's going
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  to look like that. That's a that was a metaphor
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  because we can only think in symbols and metaphors and
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  pictures. That's how humans think.
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  And so I see this picture, this police officer, and he loves
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  opera music, and he lives in New York City and he rides a
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  motorcycle. And so that for me is the
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  metaphor of what I want to be. So when I leave there, I'm going
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  to be a police officer. I'm going to be a police
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  officer. I'm going to be a police officer
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  who understands opera because the character did.
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  I'm going to be a police officer who rides a motorcycle because
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  it's been modeled to me in such beauty.
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  I want to be this So when I leave there 8th grade all the
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  way through high school, I I never I decide I'm not going to
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  commit any crimes. My friends start, you know,
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  committing larcenies, and so I'm not going to do it.
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  Why? Because I'm spiritual.
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  No, because my sense of who I am doesn't allow this right.
• 12:10
  I'm not trying to not sin. It's like if if I do this, I
• 12:15
  can't be this. This is that simple.
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• 13:59
  you go. You know on this explanation of
• 14:02
  this journey of you beginning to understand identity and your
• 14:04
  identity. You were raised with some kind
• 14:06
  of Christian faith because there was morality that they were
• 14:10
  trying to instruct you on. Can you just share briefly, did
• 14:13
  you have a belief that your family shared about, you know,
• 14:18
  Jesus Christ, the Son of God? Was that something that you had
• 14:20
  already assented to? So that so, so and at this point
• 14:24
  you were not fully, you hadn't fully integrated them with this
• 14:27
  sense of calling to be a police officer, but you still believe
• 14:30
  both to be true. God is real.
• 14:31
  Jesus is God. I want to follow him.
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  And also I have to be, I should be, I want to be a police
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  officer. As much as a 14 year old can
• 14:38
  understand, Jesus is God. Yeah, right.
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  I I prayed every night that I wouldn't go to hell, you know,
• 14:43
  that Jesus would save me from hell.
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  I had that drilled into me. That's why that's why I was
• 14:47
  afraid to go to a movie theater, right, because I had that God
• 14:51
  was very strict moral God. Yes, and Jesus died too because
• 14:58
  of the wrath of God. I mean, I I heard that every day
• 15:01
  of my life. What was interesting to me was
• 15:04
  how that wasn't beautiful to me that that that message wasn't
• 15:09
  beautiful to me. I was like, OK, that's a true
• 15:11
  you got to deal with that. This was beauty.
• 15:15
  This was like the best news I'd ever experienced in my life.
• 15:20
  If if you asked me which one of these two was good news, I would
• 15:23
  have said the movie theater. The other one was just a fact of
• 15:26
  life and you got to deal with it.
• 15:27
  And here's the way you deal with it.
• 15:29
  But it's not necessarily fun or anything.
• 15:31
  But I mean, I'll go. And that got identity too.
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  That'll come back to the identity.
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  So what? So if you asked me my identity
• 15:38
  before that movie, I would have said Sinner.
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  That's what I would have said. Even though I was saved, you
• 15:45
  know, I was still identified as Sinner.
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  That's what I would have called myself.
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  I am a Sinner. Did you ever growing up hear the
• 15:52
  language of you are a son of God adopted into his family most
• 15:57
  beloved you know called for great things destined for
• 16:00
  heaven. Like, was that any of the
• 16:02
  language of your childhood? Yeah, but once the fear is once
• 16:06
  the fear is planted in deep, it's very difficult to go to a,
• 16:11
  you know, it's like, it's like going to a God that you're
• 16:14
  terrified of and and saying, I want to receive all the good
• 16:17
  things you had for me because you're so fearful that you that
• 16:20
  you fall so short of it. It's very hard to receive love
• 16:24
  from someone that you're terrified of.
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  So you're saying you did hear you did grow up with the
• 16:30
  language of the true language of you are a son of God.
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  He saved you. He has plans for you.
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  There's big things, but in the back of your mind you were
• 16:39
  always little Jamie, terrified that God was going to smite you
• 16:43
  down and and damn you to hell. That's right.
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  If I if I stepped off the path, if I could stay on the path that
• 16:51
  he might do it, but he's pretty upset most of the time because I
• 16:56
  couldn't maintain the walk. I mean, I couldn't do it, you
• 17:01
  know, not at not to the standards that I heard you're
• 17:04
  supposed to, you know. And so I was all, I always felt
• 17:08
  guilty and I always felt shame. And I, and I mean, you know,
• 17:12
  most of the people, most of the people my age that I deal with
• 17:15
  are dying in guilt and shame, though they're quite religious,
• 17:19
  though. They're very religious.
• 17:22
  Again, it's, you know, it's like this is kind of harsh, but it's
• 17:25
  like, it's like if you tell someone Jesus loves them and
• 17:28
  then hit them, you know, it's like it gets mixed in their mind
• 17:32
  like which does he, what does he love me?
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  Or is he? Or Jesus loves you, but if you
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  make one mistake, no amount of love is going to save you from
• 17:41
  hell. That's right.
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  Or his love is very limited and very conditional.
• 17:45
  He loves you. As long as this is going on, you
• 17:48
  step out of that. You almost got to start over
• 17:51
  with him like that kind of that thing.
• 17:55
  It's so true. You have to re meet Jesus, the
• 17:59
  Jesus that you were told about as a child.
• 18:01
  If the Jesus is so characterized as the condemner, the accuser,
• 18:05
  which is by the way, Satan, that's who Satan is.
• 18:09
  Funny how we mix these things up.
• 18:11
  But if he that is who he God is as a child, even though you were
• 18:16
  told the name God, the name Jesus, all of these things and
• 18:19
  there were two things that were also said along with the things
• 18:21
  that were taken out of their really context, I would say is
• 18:25
  maybe the way to put it. You probably have a better, more
• 18:27
  artful way to say that. Then you need to rediscover who
• 18:30
  your God even is and how to how to relate to God your Father.
• 18:33
  Right. And so, so I knew I knew that
• 18:36
  part of it. What?
• 18:37
  So that's why when this happened to me, I didn't immediately
• 18:40
  associate it with God as I understood God at the time, I
• 18:44
  didn't know that that was the same thing.
• 18:46
  Imagine my joy when I found out that was the true God was the
• 18:51
  one that was in the theater and later I was like, that was you
• 18:55
  in the theater? Oh, wow, I didn't know that was
• 18:58
  you. It's like it's like Joseph, you
• 19:00
  know, when he wakes up from the dream and said God was in this
• 19:03
  place the whole time and I didn't know it you that you've
• 19:06
  been here the whole time and I didn't even know it.
• 19:08
  That's my greatest joy is watching people discover that
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  he's been with you your whole life.
• 19:14
  This isn't a new thing. He's loved you every day of your
• 19:17
  whole life. You just don't know how to hear
• 19:20
  him because you're so used to hearing this other voice, right?
• 19:25
  The other voice says, So I don't want to digress, but I was
• 19:30
  working with a bunch of school principals in our city, and I
• 19:33
  asked, you know, they're all PhDs, and we're talking about
• 19:37
  identity. And I just started with the
• 19:38
  group. And I said, how many of you
• 19:39
  driving in this morning could hear a voice in your head that
• 19:42
  said, you're no good as a principal, You're not good as a
• 19:44
  parent, You're not. Raise your hand.
• 19:45
  If you could hear that voice in your head, everybody in the room
• 19:48
  raises their hand and I said, so just we can all stay together.
• 19:52
  We all hear voices. So if I start talking about
• 19:55
  hearing a voice, none of us are going to say that's irrational
• 19:58
  or stupid or juvenile because you all were listening to voices
• 20:01
  driving here today. The difference is the voice I'm
• 20:05
  going to talk about is never going to say that to you.
• 20:08
  What that what this voice is going to say to you is I'd love
• 20:12
  to with an everlasting love. I always have.
• 20:15
  You just didn't know it. You didn't know you could relax.
• 20:18
  You didn't know you didn't have to fight.
• 20:20
  You didn't know you didn't have to self protect and self
• 20:22
  promote. You just didn't know it.
• 20:24
  So let's silence these and let's turn this one up.
• 20:29
  It's really all it is. So the so it's a start with a
• 20:33
  notion of how do you get people to listen to God?
• 20:34
  They're already listening to voices all the time.
• 20:38
  Like they're doing that. Humans do that all the time.
• 20:41
  And so anyway, so when I came out of out of all of that and I
• 20:45
  went into high school, I just was committed.
• 20:47
  I was going to be this kind of police officer.
• 20:50
  And when I I injured my leg in a wrestling accident in high
• 20:53
  school, I was afraid I couldn't pass the police physical.
• 20:56
  I had emergency surgery. I wake up the next day in the
• 20:59
  hospital and I'm devastated. And I asked the doctor, am I
• 21:03
  going to pass the police physical when I'm 21?
• 21:04
  I'm now going on into 18. And he said, I don't know.
• 21:07
  I'm so I'm devastated. And I'm then now I can blame God
• 21:11
  for something that's candy to have God so you can blame him
• 21:14
  for stuff. So I was mad at him because he
• 21:16
  hurt my leg. And this amazing nurse comes in
• 21:19
  the room. This physical therapist comes in
• 21:21
  and sits next to me. She was a single mom from West
• 21:24
  Virginia. That's the only thing I know
• 21:25
  about her. And she starts talking.
• 21:27
  She says to me, hey, listen, your body will heal.
• 21:30
  I'm here to help you get well. The thing that's going to ruin
• 21:34
  you is the bitterness that you feel, the anger inside of you.
• 21:38
  This is what's going to ruin you.
• 21:40
  Wow. And she said, let's work on
• 21:42
  that. And I knew that she was going to
• 21:46
  talk to me about Jesus or something like it.
• 21:49
  And so I was so mad. I was so mad.
• 21:52
  I just cussed her out. I mean, I just wouldn't even let
• 21:55
  her talk. I just cussed her out.
• 21:57
  I said everything I could think of about her to insult her.
• 22:00
  And she finally stood up and walked to the door.
• 22:02
  And then she looked back at me and she smiled and she said, OK,
• 22:05
  I'll see you tomorrow. And she came back the next day
• 22:08
  like she'd never met me. And I did it again to her.
• 22:11
  I cussed her out. I wouldn't work with her.
• 22:14
  And she forgave me again. She did it every day for five
• 22:17
  days and then she would work with me, but she just would
• 22:21
  smile at me and she goes, we got to work on this anger.
• 22:24
  And I never have seen forgiveness like that ever in my
• 22:27
  life. And I realized that now 17 going
• 22:32
  into 18, that if I was going to be a police officer like I had
• 22:37
  in my heart, I would have to be like her.
• 22:41
  I and I, this is what I prayed. I said, God, can you make me a
• 22:45
  police officer like she's a nurse?
• 22:48
  And I realized that her identity wasn't coming from her vocation.
• 22:53
  She was bringing her identity into her vocation and giving her
• 22:58
  not just her vocation to me, but her identity as a gift to me.
• 23:03
  Like her identity. I wish I'd never been able to
• 23:05
  find her. I wish I could find her.
• 23:07
  But because as far as she's concerned, that was a waste of
• 23:10
  time. But it was because of her that I
• 23:12
  had a model in my mind of if I walked into a domestic or
• 23:17
  neighborhood or something and they start cussing me out,
• 23:20
  that's exactly how I want to respond to them, just like she
• 23:23
  responded to me. I think that's how Jesus would
• 23:26
  have responded to me like she did.
• 23:29
  She didn't give up on me. She didn't come in and say, you
• 23:31
  better shut your mouth or I'm never going to.
• 23:33
  She just kept coming back like I'd like.
• 23:36
  We never met. And to me, especially now in my
• 23:39
  life, that's how forgiveness works.
• 23:42
  It doesn't keep a list. It doesn't keep a list of
• 23:46
  wrongs. It comes back in like, here we
• 23:47
  go, we're starting again. And I thought, wow, if humans
• 23:51
  could be like that with people that are combing against them,
• 23:56
  what could we do? So, so now and that she's the
• 23:59
  one, that woman, that amazing, beautiful person is the one that
• 24:05
  caused me to come to God and say, if this is who you are, if
• 24:10
  this is what you offer, I receive everything you have for
• 24:13
  me. I want everything you have for
• 24:16
  me because Jesus said I didn't come to be served.
• 24:19
  I came to serve like and I'm like, if you came to serve me
• 24:26
  for me to be like that in order that I could turn around and
• 24:29
  serve other people like she just did me, then Jesus, would you
• 24:33
  serve me like that? Like like he says to the
• 24:35
  Samaritan woman, if you drink from me, from you will flow the
• 24:39
  rivers of living order. Let let me serve you first and
• 24:43
  then you serve others. And so that was the model.
• 24:46
  And then I knew in my, when I went to university and all those
• 24:50
  are the kind of people I wanted to find people like her.
• 24:54
  If, if someone was going to mentor me, I needed to find
• 24:56
  people like her because I they're not, they're hard to
• 24:59
  find people like that. Most people are quick to the
• 25:02
  battle, quick to the fight. And she wasn't, but she come,
• 25:07
  she was so much more powerful than me.
• 25:09
  I knew it. I was throwing all this rage at
• 25:13
  her and she was just, it realized she would just take it
• 25:15
  right out of the room. And since then, I say all the
• 25:18
  time, the person in the room who's in the position to forgive
• 25:23
  owns the room. They own the room.
• 25:27
  So the best position to be in is to be in the position of the one
• 25:32
  who who, who has the power to forgive or who has been
• 25:35
  offended. Sometimes if we're in situations
• 25:38
  where, like God, would you put us in a position to forgive
• 25:41
  these people? Because we need the power of
• 25:44
  forgiveness to work here, and unless they offend us or hurt
• 25:48
  us, we're not going to be able to forgive them.
• 25:50
  It's a risky prayer, but it's an amazing prayer.
• 25:54
  Hey everybody, thanks so much for listening to this
• 25:56
  conversation with me. And Jamie, if you're enjoying
• 25:58
  it, please hit that subscribe button.
• 26:01
  And if you like this video, give it a like and leave a comment.
• 26:04
  We read all the comments. Thanks so much.
• 26:06
  So that's when I would say I really began to understand
• 26:11
  Christ as the Scripture talks about.
• 26:14
  The good news was from her. And then all the other stuff I
• 26:18
  learned growing up and all, you know, all started to come
• 26:20
  together in the centrality of Jesus and the message of Christ
• 26:24
  then. So then I went into university
• 26:25
  and I found the wrestling coach was very similar to her.
• 26:28
  And I just attached myself to him.
• 26:31
  And he was a disciplinarian, but he was like that.
• 26:34
  He was he, he, he loved people. He loved them, but he, he was
• 26:39
  the number two in the nation wrestler.
• 26:42
  But his, his love was so great. And yeah.
• 26:46
  And so then, then that and then when I graduated, met my wife in
• 26:50
  university and when I graduated, went to the police Academy, went
• 26:52
  on the street. I and, you know, didn't take
• 26:56
  long on the street to realize what I learned in the police
• 27:00
  Academy is not going to change anything out here.
• 27:03
  It's going to change because if it could, it would have already
• 27:06
  changed something. And nothing's changed.
• 27:08
  Nothing. In terms of all the evils even,
• 27:10
  it's not solving the problem of evil.
• 27:12
  Even on my own squad, it didn't work.
• 27:14
  On my own squad or in my own precinct among the cops, it
• 27:18
  didn't work. It wasn't happening there.
• 27:20
  How's it going to? How's it going to happen?
• 27:22
  You can't give away what you don't have, right?
• 27:25
  You, you, you're going to give away who you are to people.
• 27:29
  And so you can go to every tolerance training thing in the
• 27:33
  world, but I still don't like you and I'm still afraid of you.
• 27:37
  That only, as far as I know, only an interaction with Christ
• 27:40
  can alter that. And so if you don't have that
• 27:43
  going on, you know, a lot of times I felt like, you know, I
• 27:50
  mean, I worked cases that involved other officers off
• 27:54
  duty, right? Do you know, it's not like
• 27:57
  there's some special breed of people that are this vocation.
• 28:01
  They're just human beings like everybody else.
• 28:03
  They get put in that position sometimes wrongfully.
• 28:06
  I, I feel bad like they're humans, give them a chance to be
• 28:09
  human. They're not.
• 28:11
  But so, but so then when I would go out on the street and someone
• 28:15
  would hate my guts, I would walk into a situation and they hate
• 28:18
  my guts. I would say, why do they hate
• 28:21
  me? That they don't know me?
• 28:23
  What do they hate? What do they hate?
• 28:25
  They hate my uniform, what it represents.
• 28:26
  They hate the color of my skin, what it represents.
• 28:28
  They hate my gender, what it represents.
• 28:30
  Like the hatred is already all built in, But it's not me they
• 28:33
  hate. It's what it's what I represent.
• 28:36
  They're afraid. It's they're afraid of it.
• 28:39
  And the fear creates conflict. Take away that fear and
• 28:44
  everything changes. But we if so, if you if you go
• 28:47
  into a fearful situation and you use fear on fear, it just
• 28:51
  escalates. It just escalates and you can't
• 28:54
  de escalate fear with fear. And so the way that nurse de
• 28:59
  escalated my hostility and my really my fear, my fear of I'm
• 29:03
  not I don't have the future I was hoping for.
• 29:04
  It's gone and you're going to come in here and try and help
• 29:06
  me. I'm going to fight you in every
• 29:08
  way. The way she deal de escalated
• 29:10
  and it's a really good actually interviewing technique.
• 29:13
  Now they call it when when the person goes T Rex, you go mouse.
• 29:18
  That's the best interview style. You take away the violence
• 29:21
  quick. You don't match it because then
• 29:25
  it'll keep escalating. You take it away immediately
• 29:28
  When I'm in a situation and I would say, OK, in the Police
• 29:31
  Department, they trained us how to like break up a, you know,
• 29:34
  domestic dispute. It's super dangerous for cops in
• 29:37
  a domestic dispute because your people turn on you really quick.
• 29:40
  Either you come in to resolve it and then this person turns on
• 29:42
  you and all that. People get shot in those things,
• 29:47
  but so my thing was I don't know what to actually do to help this
• 29:52
  person. So then my next question was as
• 29:55
  a as a person who believes in God, who trusts Christ, The
• 29:59
  Bible says if it's right, if it's true, we say we believe it.
• 30:03
  The Bible says you have every spiritual gift in the heavenly
• 30:06
  realms right now. That's what it says.
• 30:08
  It says you have everything you need to pertain to life and
• 30:10
  godliness right now. What you don't have is wisdom,
• 30:14
  so you need to ask for wisdom. So I'm in a high tension
• 30:17
  situation. I'm going to ask for wisdom.
• 30:19
  How is God going to give me wisdom right now?
• 30:22
  Think if I ask him for wisdom, I need wisdom.
• 30:24
  I don't know what to say to this person right now.
• 30:25
  I need to know right now. Does can God communicate a new
• 30:31
  idea, a way to talk, a way to think that I don't know yet?
• 30:35
  Can he do it in the moment? And if he does, and if he can't,
• 30:38
  how does he do it? And how would I know?
• 30:41
  And I just started asking these questions like I think any good
• 30:45
  person trying to figure anything out would ask.
• 30:48
  And then I carried a notebook and I started writing down
• 30:51
  things that would come to my mind.
• 30:53
  Whatever you want to call that, contemplation, prayer, hearing
• 30:56
  from God, a great idea, the mind of Christ, the Spirit of the
• 31:00
  living God, all those beautiful words in Scripture.
• 31:03
  Jesus says it's better that I go, so I leave my spirit with
• 31:05
  you. Why?
• 31:06
  Why is that better than having him physically standing there?
• 31:09
  Why is it better that he's inside of me?
• 31:12
  It cuts down the time it takes for him to talk, to get to hear
• 31:14
  from he's inside there talking. And so then I just carried a
• 31:18
  notebook and I said, and I would say in this situation, Lord, I
• 31:21
  know what to do training, Why I know, but that's not going to
• 31:24
  work here. And all I'm going to do is do
• 31:26
  the same thing. That doesn't work.
• 31:28
  And we're going to be back here again and we're going to do this
• 31:31
  again and again my whole career. And this neighborhood is not
• 31:35
  going to get better unless we kill everyone in here, arrest
• 31:38
  everyone in here, we're bulldoze the thing and build another
• 31:41
  neighborhood. That's our only options.
• 31:43
  Or people are going to get transformed.
• 31:45
  But I don't ever see people getting transformed.
• 31:47
  So how do you do it? We don't know how to do it.
• 31:50
  And so I would just write down ideas and I would just try them.
• 31:54
  I would say thing, I would have this idea come to my mind and I
• 31:57
  would say it, or I would have an idea of what to do.
• 32:01
  And then I would do it. And what I learned in that
• 32:03
  process is the Lord is quite good at communicating to humans.
• 32:09
  It's kind of what the Bible's all about.
• 32:11
  And he communicates to us in the truth of who we are, in the
• 32:16
  truth of who we are. So you're made very unique by
• 32:20
  God. You're a very distinct, unique
• 32:21
  human being. And just like your parents might
• 32:24
  have others, I have three sons. They're all sons of winship.
• 32:28
  They're all inheritance, inheritors of everything that I
• 32:32
  have. They're all loved by me, but I
• 32:34
  don't call them Winship 1, Winship 2, and Winship 3.
• 32:38
  They're incredibly distinct identity.
• 32:40
  Are they all my sons? Yes.
• 32:42
  Do I love them all? Yes.
• 32:44
  Are they all get the inheritance?
• 32:45
  Yes. But they're so different.
• 32:48
  And so I talked to each one of them differently.
• 32:51
  I treat them differently. And so that's how God is with
• 32:55
  us. So he knit you together very
• 32:58
  beautifully and distinctly and He is not going to treat you and
• 33:01
  talk to you like He does some other person because then that's
• 33:05
  to deny your uniqueness. He knows everything you're most
• 33:08
  afraid of. You're afraid of things I'm not
• 33:11
  afraid of. I'm afraid of things you're not
• 33:13
  afraid of. So he talks to you need
• 33:15
  encouragement in areas I don't. I need it in areas you don't.
• 33:18
  So we have this amazing God that loves us at that level and he
• 33:23
  understands. Where were you wounded in your
• 33:25
  life? I'll speak to.
• 33:26
  I know that about you, even your closest spouse may not know the
• 33:32
  depth of those things in you, but I do and I will speak to
• 33:35
  them. That's why you can't get your
• 33:37
  identity from another human. We try to all the time, which
• 33:41
  leads to breakdown in relationship.
• 33:44
  But because you can't get that from another person, we try all
• 33:48
  the time and which and then we, we try and get identity from
• 33:52
  them. They try and get identity from
• 33:54
  us and it doesn't work. So that's what I would do.
• 33:57
  I would just ask the Lord, and then I would.
• 33:59
  And then I would say, what would you do here?
• 34:01
  How would I do this? And then I would write down and
• 34:04
  I would just try it. And I found out this is like
• 34:09
  really smart. Like this is a really smart way
• 34:13
  to be a police officer. Yeah.
• 34:15
  I mean, I can do everything. I'm trained, but there's another
• 34:18
  level too. And I can just live like I'm
• 34:21
  trained or I can go to this next level, which we would say if I'm
• 34:25
  going to, you know, you can't innovate.
• 34:27
  No human can innovate without contemplation.
• 34:30
  No human can innovate without contemplation.
• 34:32
  I don't care if you're an atheist.
• 34:33
  I don't care. Human minds cannot innovate
• 34:36
  without contemplation first, which means if you're going to
• 34:38
  be an expert in something, you need to be an expert in
• 34:41
  contemplation. What is contemplation?
• 34:44
  An inner spiritual life. And that that's why we do it in
• 34:48
  places that are considered secular because there's no such
• 34:51
  thing as that either. But I'm like, do you all want to
• 34:53
  innovate in this vocation? If you're going to, if you're
• 34:56
  going to innovate, the human brain can't innovate without
• 34:59
  contemplation. Otherwise you'll just imitate,
• 35:01
  which is the only thing we ever do is imitate.
• 35:04
  That's why nothing changes. We can't stop school shootings.
• 35:07
  We haven't figured that out there.
• 35:08
  There are more all the time. We could stop them though.
• 35:11
  We could completely stop them. I know we of course we can, but
• 35:15
  now we think we can't. Now we've kind of given up.
• 35:18
  Now it's just we're going to fight, which is what we always
• 35:21
  end up doing. We're just going to fight the
• 35:22
  bad guys. We could end this whole thing.
• 35:25
  We could totally do it, but we're going to have to innovate
• 35:28
  to do it. And to innovate, we're going to
• 35:30
  have to have deep contemplation and we're going to have to do
• 35:33
  things that we wouldn't just come up with in our own strength
• 35:36
  and power. And so to me, you're back to
• 35:38
  you, but you probably better have a relationship with a God
• 35:41
  who loves you in order to get to that kind of level of
• 35:44
  contemplation. Otherwise, I always say this, it
• 35:47
  doesn't take any creativity to lock someone up or kill them.
• 35:50
  Zero thinking, no creativity. We can all do that.
• 35:53
  That's always an option. Is there any others?
• 35:56
  Are there any others? Because we can always end up on
• 35:58
  that one. My frustration is we always end
• 36:01
  up on that one. That's the one we always end up
• 36:04
  on. Why?
• 36:06
  Why? Why?
• 36:08
  So that's how. So I did that, got recruited by
• 36:12
  the State Department because of what I was doing in the Police
• 36:14
  Department. They called me.
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• 37:57
  When you were doing this, you were praying on the job, you
• 38:01
  were praying through your work, you were inviting the Holy
• 38:03
  Spirit into your work, and you were asking for special wisdom
• 38:06
  for how to be a Christian police officer, a Jesus follower police
• 38:11
  officer, which is going to transform not just how you do
• 38:14
  your job, but the lives of the people that you encounter.
• 38:17
  Can you share any stories about what that what, what kind of
• 38:21
  impact you saw that have? Maybe you didn't see much
• 38:23
  because that's God's, you know, God does the fruit.
• 38:25
  We do the sewing sometimes. But did you do you have any
• 38:28
  stories about what would happen when you would say, Lord inspire
• 38:32
  me here? You maybe took down a note.
• 38:34
  Maybe you're in the middle of a domestic dispute.
• 38:35
  The wife and the husband are about to kill each other and you
• 38:38
  all of a sudden say, let's go out for pancakes.
• 38:40
  You know, I don't know, I'm just making something up, you know,
• 38:42
  Holy Spirit. But can you share any, any
• 38:44
  anecdotes from that time? For example, so we were working
• 38:47
  in a low income neighborhood and, you know, trying to stop
• 38:50
  the drug problems in these neighborhoods and you're just
• 38:52
  never going to do it. You just can't do it.
• 38:54
  And so I was asking, God, what would you, how would you stop
• 39:00
  drugs in a neighborhood? What would you do to end drug
• 39:02
  problems in a neighborhood? And I mean, as soon as like you
• 39:06
  have the idea, it's like, well, of course, that's what you would
• 39:09
  of course that what would Jesus do to, to end the drug problem?
• 39:14
  He would go find the drug dealer right high up as he can find and
• 39:20
  probably go eat dinner with him. And so that's what I did.
• 39:23
  I went and I located the highest level guy I could find that we
• 39:27
  knew was doing it. And I just found him.
• 39:29
  I was in uniform and I said, listen, I'm I would love to have
• 39:34
  you come eat there at my house. I'm inviting you.
• 39:37
  And in fact, I'd like you at your house.
• 39:38
  Yeah. I asked him to spend the
• 39:39
  weekend. He spent the weekend.
• 39:42
  And I said, would you come spend the?
• 39:43
  Did you have kids at this point? No, but now my, yeah, my kids
• 39:47
  are experts at the because they then they, my kids grew up in
• 39:50
  the Muslim world doing this. This is just me in a
• 39:52
  neighborhood in the US doing it. They could do it in an Islamic
• 39:55
  neighborhood. But I did this was the practice
• 39:59
  was the Police Department. And I just, and he said to me,
• 40:02
  I've never, no police officer has ever invited me to their
• 40:05
  house for dinner. And I said, and I've never
• 40:08
  invited a drug dealer to my house for dinner.
• 40:10
  So well, this will be a first time for both of us.
• 40:12
  We'll see what happens. But why is it the first time?
• 40:15
  Why have we never thought of this?
• 40:17
  Like we have a Bible? What would Jesus do?
• 40:21
  It's kind of the thing he does. So, but but the guy has to be
• 40:24
  willing and I have to go try and and could he murder my family?
• 40:28
  There's the fear he comes and Donna makes feeds, you know,
• 40:31
  feeds them and and hit, we call it getting their fists down.
• 40:36
  His fists are like this. His whole life, his fists have
• 40:39
  been like this. And when we come to him, our
• 40:41
  fists are up. That's how we start.
• 40:43
  It's like how, where, where are we going to go from there?
• 40:46
  And so his fists are down and I, mine are down.
• 40:48
  And I said to him, look, and this is when I started to think
• 40:52
  about identity. We're in these years.
• 40:54
  Like I said, how do you like identify yourself?
• 40:57
  Like how do, what do you call yourself?
• 40:59
  You know, and he said the name of his gang.
• 41:01
  He said, I'm the leader of the gang.
• 41:03
  And, you know, and he didn't call himself a drug dealer that
• 41:06
  he, that's not the name he called himself.
• 41:08
  He was the, he was the leader of a gang there.
• 41:11
  He was very proud of it and he said, what do you call me?
• 41:15
  And I said, I think you're like an unbelievably good
• 41:18
  entrepreneur because you've got a, you've got a thriving
• 41:23
  business and we're trying to put you out of business every day
• 41:26
  and we haven't been, We will, we're going to eventually and
• 41:29
  you're going to lose. But to date, you're making a
• 41:31
  profit in a market that the whole government's trying to put
• 41:35
  you out of business and you, and you're still doing it.
• 41:38
  You're successful and you're incredibly brave.
• 41:41
  Like how much courage does it take to do what you're doing?
• 41:44
  Like, because you know you're going to end up in prison
• 41:47
  eventually and yet you'll still do it, you know, like, and so I
• 41:50
  said, so if you're brave and you're courageous and you're
• 41:53
  obviously smart, you know how to, you know how to employ
• 41:57
  people. You too, you have hiring
• 41:59
  practices, you have, you have a kind of fraternity going.
• 42:02
  You have an enforcement program. And I said, you can do all that.
• 42:06
  Why don't you do it in a world where you're not going to go to
• 42:08
  prison? Why don't you come out and do it
• 42:10
  with us in our world? Come out in our world and do it
• 42:13
  and stop doing it in the shadows?
• 42:15
  Why are you afraid to come out into our world, the world, and
• 42:18
  do it? Do you know why he's afraid to
• 42:20
  do it? I'm not smart enough.
• 42:22
  That's his identity. I'm too dumb.
• 42:24
  I can't do it. I can't do it in the real world.
• 42:26
  I'm not smart enough. And my question is, who told
• 42:29
  you? When did you learn you're not
• 42:30
  smart enough? Who told you that?
• 42:32
  No human is born thinking they're not smart enough.
• 42:34
  They're told they're not smart enough.
• 42:37
  They're told they're not pretty. They're told they're not a good
• 42:39
  singer. They're told they're ugly.
• 42:41
  Sooner or later they're told that, and that's when they start
• 42:45
  pulling identity. Oh, and here are the facts to
• 42:48
  prove that you're not smart enough.
• 42:50
  You're out of the school and it and and it's not true.
• 42:55
  It's not it's never been true. And so I walked him through
• 43:01
  like, look, you already do everything that a person whose
• 43:04
  identity is a good entrepreneur, dude, all it is is you're
• 43:09
  afraid. You're afraid to go out there
• 43:11
  and fail. Do you know how many humans are
• 43:14
  afraid to fail every day? All of us, all of us and and how
• 43:20
  many of us are egomaniacs trying to prove how powerful and
• 43:23
  successful we are, All of us, all of us telling everyone how
• 43:27
  great we are and trying to, you know, show all of our accolades
• 43:29
  and everything. It's our whole culture.
• 43:32
  And so when a person can't make it in that wouldn't they either
• 43:35
  they either go to war or they shoot themselves.
• 43:38
  One of the two self destruct. And so when I, I said, listen,
• 43:42
  here's what you lack connection. You don't have, you don't have
• 43:46
  connect. You're, you're, you're separated
• 43:48
  from what's true and real in the world.
• 43:50
  I will be your connection. I will be your community come
• 43:54
  out. I will, I will walk with you in
• 43:57
  this because it's going to take a lot of courage and I will walk
• 44:01
  in you. And he said, why?
• 44:02
  He said, why? You know what I said?
• 44:04
  Because I had a nurse that kept coming back to me and forgive me
• 44:09
  every day because I was afraid when she came in the room and I
• 44:13
  said I'm going to pay her back. I'm going to thank her for doing
• 44:16
  that. And that's how.
• 44:17
  And he ended the drugs in the neighborhood.
• 44:20
  He did it. He and he stopped after that
• 44:24
  dinner. Because he took all the guys out
• 44:25
  of it and got him into legitimate business.
• 44:29
  You're kidding. What?
• 44:31
  Why not? Why wouldn't he?
• 44:33
  He's like, I got a way to make money.
• 44:34
  It's it's an amazing story. It's an amazing story.
• 44:38
  What's sad is it's amazing. It should be the norm.
• 44:41
  I'll tell you right now and I can't name.
• 44:43
  It should be the norm. It should be believers ought to
• 44:45
  be leading this all the time. This is this is, this is our man
• 44:50
  Jamie. This is our gift of the world.
• 44:52
  But we're exactly like the rest of the world.
• 44:55
  We're self protecting, we're self promoting.
• 44:57
  We're in our gangs, we're in our groups and we're at war.
• 45:00
  We're just at war all the time. I follow the Prince of Peace.
• 45:04
  Let me give you another example. So I mean, I once I saw that
• 45:08
  work, I couldn't wait to go on the job.
• 45:11
  I couldn't wait. It wasn't like how many people
• 45:12
  could I arrest? It was like how many times, how
• 45:15
  many times can the city pay me to do this?
• 45:18
  Like this is I'm the motto on our car is serve and protect.
• 45:22
  That's our motto. Serve and protect.
• 45:24
  We're not serving anybody, and we're our There's a difference
• 45:28
  in law enforcement between serve and protect and law enforcement.
• 45:31
  We have to decide, are we law enforcers?
• 45:33
  Are we servers and protectors? Servers and protectors can
• 45:37
  transform an entire city. Law enforcers are going to be at
• 45:40
  war every shift, every day, because they don't care about
• 45:44
  people. They care about enforcing the
• 45:46
  law, which has nothing to do with humanity or community.
• 45:49
  Servers and protectors can end crime because the people they're
• 45:53
  serving and protecting are the cause of the crime.
• 45:57
  And so you, you win them, the crime stops.
• 46:00
  So I did, I started doing that and it, I developed a reputation
• 46:04
  for it. And, and so, you know, one case
• 46:10
  I worked where there was a kidnapped kid, a missing kid.
• 46:15
  And I just, I was working the case and I just asked God, do
• 46:20
  you, can you find people? Like, do you do that anymore?
• 46:23
  I, I read that you could in the Bible, like, did you go out of
• 46:26
  that business? Because somebody told me you
• 46:29
  did. I mean, somebody told me you
• 46:30
  went out of that business. Did you?
• 46:31
  I mean, I've never asked you God.
• 46:33
  I've always just listened to what this person says or this
• 46:35
  person says, can you find people?
• 46:38
  And if you can, how would we know?
• 46:41
  Like would you, would we hear a voice?
• 46:42
  Would you, would we have a feeling inside?
• 46:44
  Any kind of any normal human being would experiment.
• 46:47
  Trying to figure out something new is all I'm doing.
• 46:50
  That's all I'm doing. The amazing thing that I didn't
• 46:54
  know is how much God loves that and responds to it.
• 46:57
  It's like he says ask, seek, knock, ask, seek.
• 47:01
  And we don't. We just, we don't do it.
• 47:03
  It's, I mean, what you're saying is such a, it's resonates so
• 47:07
  deeply with me because in my life, every single time I've
• 47:11
  asked, seeked or knocked with faith, of course, saying Lord
• 47:15
  here, you know, here I am in my, even in my disbelief, my little
• 47:18
  mustard seed, whatever it is, right?
• 47:19
  The Lord, he's a he, he, he always shows up in mysterious
• 47:24
  ways. But how often we just don't ask
• 47:27
  secret knock. We'll ask secret knock maybe in
• 47:29
  a moment of desperation, but even then we're not really
• 47:32
  inviting the Lord in often because we're doing it out of
• 47:35
  fear. And just like, you know, take
• 47:36
  this immediate pain away or whatever The thing is, but it's
• 47:39
  just amazing what the Holy Spirit will do for his people if
• 47:42
  we're willing to ask, seek and knock.
• 47:44
  So anyways, you're, you're sharing this story, the kids
• 47:46
  kidnapped. There's a there how old was the
• 47:48
  child? Do we Do we know how old the kid
• 47:49
  was? 3rd grade from a bus stop.
• 47:52
  So abducted from a bus stop. That is so terrified.
• 47:55
  This is in the 80s like, so it never happened.
• 47:57
  I mean, we didn't have this stuff happening in the 80s and
• 47:59
  we don't have computers and any of that stuff.
• 48:01
  It's just so random, you know, and, and that we find out from
• 48:05
  the school, which is like 2 hours after it's happened.
• 48:08
  So it's like you don't really have a chance.
• 48:10
  You make sure it's not a domestic dispute, it's not a
• 48:12
  domestic dispute, that kind of thing.
• 48:14
  And then it's like, what are we going to do?
• 48:19
  And so I had been talking to the father and I was super
• 48:22
  frustrated and, and I said, I know we can find this kid.
• 48:25
  I said that to the father and he's like, I hope.
• 48:27
  And then I got in trouble because you don't say that
• 48:29
  you're not allowed to say that stuff, obviously.
• 48:32
  And then I just, I drove away from the scene and I was sitting
• 48:35
  on a side road and I was like, I can you find kids?
• 48:40
  I don't know, can you find kids? Because this doesn't seem right.
• 48:43
  Like this doesn't seem right. And, and I was, I had little
• 48:47
  kids at the time and I was like, I'll be heartbroken over this.
• 48:50
  God, like, can you find kids? And how do we know if you do?
• 48:55
  And and I this car came down the street by me on the side street
• 49:00
  driving slow and I looked over and here's the thing about
• 49:03
  prayer. When you ask God a question,
• 49:06
  wait for an answer like don't ask him.
• 49:09
  Walk away. Wait, look, search.
• 49:12
  We just ask him. Walk away.
• 49:14
  Look, pay attention when you ask him.
• 49:16
  Pay attention to everything around you.
• 49:18
  Don't expect him how he's going to answer like he can.
• 49:21
  He's God. He loves to wow you.
• 49:24
  He loves to show you a million ways that he can love you and
• 49:26
  talk to you and and use all your different faculties.
• 49:29
  It's so beautiful. So you can't put him in a
• 49:33
  formulaic box. He won't do it.
• 49:35
  He won't get in that he's the mysterious free God.
• 49:38
  That's why Israel had such a hard time with him because they
• 49:41
  couldn't control him like an idol like we, we'll make our own
• 49:44
  God so we can control him and he's always on our team.
• 49:47
  This God doesn't seem to always be on our team, even he's not on
• 49:51
  your team. He's not on anybody's team.
• 49:53
  He's the team. And so that frustrates us.
• 49:56
  And so I look over in this car and it's just a guy driving.
• 49:59
  But when he looks back at me, I'd get really sick to my
• 50:02
  stomach, really nauseous. Like someone punched me.
• 50:05
  And I was like, Oh my gosh, is that it?
• 50:09
  Is that how you? And so I stopped the car and
• 50:13
  made him open his trunk. And the kid was in the trunk of
• 50:16
  the car of that car. What?
• 50:20
  And so, yeah. The kidnapped child, the 3rd
• 50:23
  grade, was in the trunk of this car that you got a sick stomach
• 50:27
  over. Yeah, and this was, you know, 40
• 50:29
  years ago or whatever. It was long, long ago.
• 50:32
  And And so like I got Office of the Year for that.
• 50:35
  What's crazy is like, so when the detectives came up on the
• 50:37
  scene, I mean, the guy driving the car was freaked out.
• 50:40
  He we kept going. How do you know?
• 50:41
  How did you know? Who?
• 50:43
  How did you know? Who was the guy who was the?
• 50:46
  Kidnapper, I don't know like a serial whatever drifter kind of
• 50:50
  guy. He just kidnapped the kid and
• 50:51
  held him in the in the area and just waited till we all.
• 50:54
  Was the kid tied up? How did he keep him in the car?
• 50:57
  In the in the trunk? He.
• 50:58
  Was like holding him somewhere and just got him to get in the
• 51:00
  trunk and drove kind of like it was a game kind of thing.
• 51:03
  Wow, yeah. The kid was so sweet.
• 51:06
  I mean, he's. And Jamie, he was just driving
• 51:09
  because this had been a few hours after the kidnapping.
• 51:12
  The kidnapper was just driving the streets.
• 51:15
  Or what was the kidnapper? He was waiting a location
• 51:18
  hidden, you know, I don't know, a house or somewhere he pled, I
• 51:21
  don't know. He and he knew that we would
• 51:23
  search like crazy for a while, but we couldn't stay there
• 51:27
  forever and we would get frustrated and he just was
• 51:30
  waiting and we didn't have a description of a vehicle.
• 51:34
  And so he was just waiting till everything kind of calmed down.
• 51:36
  He just was slowly just driving out of the area.
• 51:39
  I didn't see anything that dramatic for a long time after
• 51:42
  that. It was just like the Lord saying
• 51:44
  this is what is possible. Don't, don't tell me.
• 51:47
  Don't say what I can and can't do.
• 51:49
  I don't care what another person teaches you that I can and can't
• 51:53
  do. You ask me what I can and can't
• 51:54
  do. Because honestly, a lot of our
• 51:56
  information about God comes from other people telling us what God
• 52:00
  can and can't. Most of our information about
• 52:02
  even who we are comes. All of it comes from what other
• 52:05
  people say about us. That's what hurts us instead of
• 52:08
  well, what does God say about you?
• 52:09
  I don't know. I've never asked him.
• 52:12
  I only know what these people say.
• 52:13
  He probably thinks about me based on these things in my
• 52:16
  life. And I'm like, well, then that's
• 52:18
  not him. Ask him if I, if I'm with a
• 52:21
  group of men and I say, do do we all believe that Jesus is right
• 52:24
  here with his right now? Oh, yeah, we all believe it.
• 52:26
  He's right. OK, so right, He's right here.
• 52:27
  Look right in his face right now.
• 52:29
  Look in his eyes and go tell me exactly, truthfully, what kind
• 52:33
  of dad do you think I am? And they don't want to do it.
• 52:38
  Why? They're afraid.
• 52:40
  Why? Because they know he'll condemn
• 52:43
  them. That's why.
• 52:45
  And I'm like, who said he would condemn you?
• 52:47
  Who said? And because they think he will,
• 52:50
  they will not go to him. We love him because he first
• 52:54
  loved us. This is the good news.
• 52:57
  We didn't love him first. He loved us first.
• 52:59
  And then he demonstrated his love to us.
• 53:02
  While we were his enemies, He died for us.
• 53:05
  This is all wow. We don't like him.
• 53:08
  He's doing all this wow. We're his enemy.
• 53:11
  Now you're coming to him and saying, I just want to know what
• 53:14
  you really think about me. What do you think he's going to
• 53:16
  say now that you're trying to be his friend, Right?
• 53:20
  How much more now that we call him friend?
• 53:22
  Like, Yeah, but I'm his worst enemy.
• 53:25
  That's when he died for you. That's when he demonstrated his
• 53:29
  love for you. When you were his spitting on
• 53:31
  his name, when you would have joined the crowd to kill him.
• 53:35
  That's when he loved you. That's how he was showing his
• 53:38
  love for you. Why do you think now he doesn't
• 53:40
  like you? Because you, whatever you did,
• 53:43
  whatever you did, it's the best. I don't know better news than
• 53:46
  this stuff. The part that you speak to so
• 53:49
  beautifully is that he died for you, he rose for you, and then
• 53:53
  he gave you his spirit and said, you know, live life in full and
• 53:57
  go out and make disciples of all nations and you're going to see
• 53:59
  greater works. You know, then you even saw with
• 54:02
  me. I mean, it was like, now it's
• 54:04
  on, you know, it's not like he died for you.
• 54:06
  And then like you miserable worm still, you know, like he died
• 54:09
  for you and he rose for you and he gave you the spirit and you
• 54:12
  know, now it's the Kingdom of heaven is here.
• 54:14
  You know, it's, it's wild and we can't even comprehend it because
• 54:18
  we're always thinking. We're always thinking in our
• 54:21
  worldly way and we lose the heavenly reality that we should
• 54:27
  be walking in every day. That's.
• 54:28
  Right. Yeah, It's like, I, I mean, a
• 54:31
  book I just wrote is on worldviews because this is what
• 54:33
  hurt kills us is our worldview. Even as Christians, our
• 54:36
  worldview is wrong and which is another topic, but it's this.
• 54:42
  We're looking at the world through a lens of separation.
• 54:45
  Like that's how we look at the world.
• 54:46
  Whether we grow up in a Christian home or not, we're
• 54:48
  still looking at the world through a certain worldview.
• 54:51
  This is what Moses is trying to explain to the Israelites in
• 54:54
  Genesis and Exodus and Deuteronomy and all of them.
• 54:57
  He's saying we can't build a new nation with an empire worldview.
• 55:03
  And that's all they had. That's all they knew was empire
• 55:05
  worldview. He's saying there is a whole
• 55:08
  nother worldview that's built on connection, not separation.
• 55:13
  And they had it. That's what going through the
• 55:15
  wilderness was to wean them of the separation worldview and to
• 55:18
  introduce them into the connection worldview, which is
• 55:22
  like God is in front of you, He's behind you, He can feed
• 55:26
  you, He can protect you. You don't have to go out there
• 55:30
  and fight everyone that you know.
• 55:32
  It's not like how fast can I self protect and self promote?
• 55:36
  It's like, no, no, it's like we're going to be, we're going
• 55:39
  to be a nation that's different from anything that's ever
• 55:42
  existed. And when people look at this
• 55:44
  nation, they're going to go, wow, there's a whole another way
• 55:45
  to do this whole thing. We don't have to rule the world.
• 55:49
  We can influence the world. It's very different.
• 55:52
  We can, you know, we can law enforce or we can be servers and
• 55:55
  protectors in the world. It's what Jesus didn't come to
• 55:58
  rule the world. He came to serve and protect the
• 56:01
  world by by bringing absolute spiritual transformation and
• 56:05
  taken away our fear #1 exhortation, scripture.
• 56:08
  Don't be afraid. I ask people all the time, what
• 56:11
  would the world look like if we weren't afraid of anybody?
• 56:16
  What if we just weren't afraid of each other?
• 56:18
  We would probably share stuff. But we can't.
• 56:20
  We can't. We're not, we can't because if
• 56:22
  we give it to them, then we don't have it.
• 56:23
  And there's not. And scarcity dominates us.
• 56:26
  And it's what you said earlier then a falsehood.
• 56:29
  Scarcity doesn't exist in the real world.
• 56:31
  Scarcity does not exist anywhere in reality.
• 56:35
  It's a it's a human. What does that mean?
• 56:37
  So. So in nature, there's no such
• 56:40
  thing as scarcity. There's no such thing.
• 56:42
  The whole system runs without this fear.
• 56:44
  Like, Oh no, I'm a lion. I better kill every single
• 56:48
  antelope for five years so I can store up a bunch of antelopes in
• 56:51
  case there's a bad year. You kill one, that's enough.
• 56:55
  That's it. That's the end, right?
• 56:57
  Even though there's 3000 antelope out there, you kill one
• 57:00
  and the next time you kill one is the next time it's necessary
• 57:03
  to do that. There's no scarce there's no
• 57:05
  sense of scarcity even in a predator, there's no sense of
• 57:08
  scarcity. But in in all of nature, there's
• 57:11
  no sense of like man, we oak trees better get together
• 57:13
  because these pine trees are going to take this place.
• 57:16
  It it doesn't exist. Scarcity only exists where
• 57:20
  humans create it. Humans create scarcity.
• 57:23
  We do. And so when Israel's taken out
• 57:26
  out of the Egyptian Empire mentality into the wilderness,
• 57:30
  God is showing them there's tell me what's scarce out here.
• 57:33
  Food, No, it's not. Water, No, it's not.
• 57:36
  There is no scarcity. There is no scarcity.
• 57:40
  But if you if you create scarcity, you're going to war,
• 57:43
  you're going to war. And so, So what happens is so we
• 57:47
  create scarcity and then we say it's the reality.
• 57:51
  This is the great lie that we live in.
• 57:54
  We create these conditions and then we say it's real and we
• 57:58
  have God's reality, which we say is dreamland, fairy tale world.
• 58:03
  And so The thing is upside down. And so it's just incredible when
• 58:07
  you're watching Jesus moving around and the disciples wake
• 58:09
  him up in the storm at sea and they'll go, Don't you see the
• 58:13
  reality of this situation? Here's the reality.
• 58:16
  You don't, you don't care that we're going to die.
• 58:20
  Here's the scarcity level. Your love is scarce, apparently
• 58:24
  because you don't love me enough to protect me.
• 58:26
  So even the love of God is scarce.
• 58:29
  He loves certain people, but not me because I sinned and I'm not
• 58:31
  worthy. And we're going to you don't
• 58:34
  care that we're going to die like you don't care.
• 58:37
  And, and the reality is this is going to kill us.
• 58:40
  And none of it's true. Everything they just said is
• 58:42
  false. But in their brain, it's all
• 58:46
  real. And So what is the reality
• 58:48
  producing them? Absolute self protection and
• 58:51
  self promotion. Absolute like we got to do
• 58:52
  whatever we got to do to save ourselves in this situation.
• 58:55
  And Jesus wakes up. He's not, he's not freaked out,
• 58:59
  He's not like, oh gosh, why didn't you wake me up earlier?
• 59:00
  Oh my gosh, it's like he wakes up and then he's, he just shuts
• 59:04
  the storm down. And then then it says they're
• 59:07
  afraid of him. Then their fear shifts from who?
• 59:11
  Wow, who the heck is this? Like, who is this person?
• 59:14
  And so that's the thing that the problem is I, this is in my
• 59:18
  book. I ask people all the time, tell
• 59:20
  me what there's not enough of in the world.
• 59:21
  Tell me what there's not enough of time.
• 59:25
  Time is time is of absolute, a construct of measurement, of
• 59:28
  movement. It has no power. 0 power.
• 59:31
  It's not a living thing. We've made it into a God.
• 59:35
  We did time. We make we make time the God of
• 59:40
  our whole life. It's not a God.
• 59:44
  It it, it doesn't even have any power.
• 59:46
  We do. There's none.
• 59:48
  How can there not be enough time?
• 59:49
  Because we made time schedules and enslaved ourselves too.
• 59:54
  That's how idols work. They have no power.
• 59:56
  They can't talk. But man, are we terrified of
• 59:59
  them, what they might do, right? We don't have enough time.
• 1:00:01
  We don't have enough money. We don't have enough food.
• 1:00:03
  Can I explore, explore that time question a little more?
• 1:00:06
  I think that's extremely powerful, what you just said,
• 1:00:09
  this idea that there's not enough time.
• 1:00:11
  There are so many people who think, well, I can't do X,
• 1:00:15
  whether it's love my child or accomplish this thing for the
• 1:00:19
  Kingdom of God or serve or help this person because they don't
• 1:00:21
  have enough time. So they might feel an
• 1:00:22
  inspiration towards something good, maybe a good work or
• 1:00:26
  something, and they feel they don't have enough time, right?
• 1:00:28
  Or they're just generally lamenting that they don't have
• 1:00:31
  enough time to pray, you know, to be with their own kids, to be
• 1:00:36
  with their spouse, to be with family, whatever, right?
• 1:00:39
  Can you explain more what you mean by that is and idol
• 1:00:44
  actually, and we're totally missing how God shows up in our
• 1:00:48
  life and how he would show up in our life if we let him.
• 1:00:51
  So like the way scripture talks about time is there's Kronos
• 1:00:53
  time Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and there's Cairo's time, right?
• 1:00:58
  And so Kairos time is like time. These times when God just
• 1:01:01
  interacts, intersects with Kronos time.
• 1:01:03
  Like beautiful moments in your life.
• 1:01:05
  They could be seem insignificant, but they're
• 1:01:07
  really beautiful. Or you know, I came to faith in
• 1:01:09
  Christ where I met my spouse or these amazing moments.
• 1:01:13
  And so if you think of your life as a Kronos line, you're walking
• 1:01:16
  on, you're walking into Kairos moments.
• 1:01:19
  The Kairos moments don't. Time doesn't pass.
• 1:01:23
  Time doesn't move. It can't move.
• 1:01:26
  So when we say time is passing, that's not true.
• 1:01:29
  It can't. You're moving forward in time,
• 1:01:33
  but time is is set. So all time is measuring is how
• 1:01:38
  long did it take me to go from here to here?
• 1:01:40
  That took an hour. So Israel's going to walk across
• 1:01:43
  this piece of land into the promised land.
• 1:01:45
  How long is it going to take? It could take them 11 days,
• 1:01:47
  which it could, or 40 years. But nothing moved.
• 1:01:51
  Nothing. Time didn't move.
• 1:01:52
  They did this. So when a person says I'm
• 1:01:56
  running out of time, I'm like, no, you're not.
• 1:01:59
  Tell me what the where, where are you walking to?
• 1:02:01
  Where in your life? Well, I have, I want, I believe
• 1:02:03
  that God's inviting me to hear. OK, why aren't you walking
• 1:02:07
  towards that? What do you mean you're running
• 1:02:10
  out of time? That means you're not moving
• 1:02:11
  towards it. Like what are you doing?
• 1:02:13
  You're walking in a circle. You're walking that way.
• 1:02:16
  You're not walking towards it. Why are you not walking towards
• 1:02:18
  it? And I promise you, the reason
• 1:02:20
  you're not is 'cause you're here, you're afraid.
• 1:02:24
  And it's and so we blame we blame time, we blame money, we
• 1:02:29
  blame resources, we blame other people, probably worst of all,
• 1:02:34
  right. They're the problem for the
• 1:02:36
  reason why we can't ultimately, I mean, ultimately it's love.
• 1:02:41
  That's what it is. You know, these are all comes
• 1:02:44
  down to living a life of love, right?
• 1:02:47
  And and we give it, we have excuses endlessly for why these
• 1:02:51
  things are not possible. We're actually the the Holy
• 1:02:53
  Spirit could be inspiring us and urging us to become who were
• 1:02:57
  created to be, But we're just like, I can't.
• 1:03:00
  I just, I just can't. And then we rationalize
• 1:03:03
  endlessly. Right.
• 1:03:04
  And that's a wrong view of God, a wrong view of yourself that
• 1:03:08
  leads to a wrong action. Like God can't do it.
• 1:03:12
  So I'm not even going to try and I'm going to run out of time.
• 1:03:15
  He's not with me. He won't be with me.
• 1:03:17
  I'm not smart enough. I don't have the resources.
• 1:03:19
  Well, he'll supply him. No, I don't think he will.
• 1:03:21
  All the reasons you're just going to stand stuck, but you're
• 1:03:25
  not stuck. And so Israel walks 40 years in
• 1:03:29
  all these circles. They get all the way to the
• 1:03:31
  location to walk in and they go, we can't walk in.
• 1:03:36
  Why? Why?
• 1:03:38
  Because we're grasshoppers in our eyes.
• 1:03:40
  There's the identity statement. We're grasshoppers in our own
• 1:03:43
  eyes. Not even in the enemy's eyes,
• 1:03:45
  our eyes, not in God's eyes, our and.
• 1:03:47
  We're scared. And because we look in the
• 1:03:50
  mirror and see grasshopper, we quit.
• 1:03:53
  And so did they run out of time? No, the Lord's like, well, we
• 1:03:57
  can't go in as grasshoppers. So they walk.
• 1:03:59
  They go walk in a circle. After 10 years of walking in a
• 1:04:03
  circle, they could have said, you know what?
• 1:04:05
  We change our minds, we repent, we truth tell we're getting rid
• 1:04:08
  of the grasshopper thing. We're back to we're more than
• 1:04:11
  conquerors. Let's go.
• 1:04:12
  And the Lord said, let's go 10 years.
• 1:04:14
  You want to go now? Nope.
• 1:04:15
  The Lord will never not go with you.
• 1:04:19
  He's always walking beside you, going, do you want to go now?
• 1:04:21
  Do you want to go today? No, 20 years, 30 years.
• 1:04:25
  And then they start to die. Those guys died.
• 1:04:27
  Do you want to go now? The whole generation dies.
• 1:04:30
  But Caleb and Joshua never sit around going.
• 1:04:32
  We're running out of time. We're going to lose time At 80.
• 1:04:35
  It's like you ready? Here we go.
• 1:04:37
  And so why? Why?
• 1:04:38
  Because they don't. They're not afraid of losing
• 1:04:41
  time. Time doesn't decide whether they
• 1:04:43
  go in or out. God it does.
• 1:04:45
  But if we make time the God, you're not going to make it.
• 1:04:50
  This idea of you have no time or we don't have enough time.
• 1:04:53
  Are you dead? If you're not dead, you've got
• 1:04:56
  the time, you know. So that's just like, like until
• 1:04:59
  you're dead, then you're, you know, eternity.
• 1:05:02
  But until then, you've got the time.
• 1:05:03
  I tell people like, it's like you're standing on a beach and
• 1:05:06
  there's a hotel a mile away and you go like, let's walk to the
• 1:05:08
  hotel. OK, Great Lord.
• 1:05:09
  Do you want us to go to that hotel?
• 1:05:10
  Jack, let's go to that hotel. And you start walking and one
• 1:05:13
  mile in, you've it. It's 2 miles away.
• 1:05:15
  One mile in, you find a six pack of beer and you decide to drink
• 1:05:17
  it. OK, well, that's going to slow
• 1:05:19
  us down probably for a while. And then, boy, I really love
• 1:05:22
  this alcohol. And so I I'm gonna just drink
• 1:05:25
  for a while. And then you wander off the road
• 1:05:27
  for 20 years. We go get you.
• 1:05:30
  We bring you back sober, put you back on the trail.
• 1:05:33
  The hotel is still there. Let's go, let's go.
• 1:05:36
  And the Lord says it like this. Ask me and I will restore unto
• 1:05:40
  you the years the locusts have eaten away.
• 1:05:42
  I will give you the time back. I've prayed that with so many
• 1:05:47
  guys in their 50s and 60s who are like, dude, let's start,
• 1:05:51
  let's go asked for the year. How many years did you space
• 1:05:55
  waste in addiction or whatever you were in?
• 1:05:57
  35 Lord will you give me 35 years back and watch him do it?
• 1:06:02
  What happens? They get they, it's oh man, I
• 1:06:05
  have so many stories, guys. Like one guy that I met that was
• 1:06:10
  crazy alcoholic. He's in my first book and just
• 1:06:12
  super violent. He was going to be a big
• 1:06:14
  football player and he got hurt in college and couldn't play,
• 1:06:16
  but he's this giant and he learned to be mad because his
• 1:06:18
  identity was football. And so he learned his identity
• 1:06:22
  as football and you better be mean.
• 1:06:23
  So from a little kid, his dad made him mean and he went to
• 1:06:26
  play and he was mean and he was successful and got rewarded for
• 1:06:29
  being mean. And then he hurts himself and he
• 1:06:31
  loses a scholarship, never passed the class.
• 1:06:33
  He's out of college. And so he, he starts drinking
• 1:06:37
  and he gets one marriage and then two marriages and he's
• 1:06:39
  super violent and all this and I need him.
• 1:06:42
  I meet him, he's like 45 now and he's violent as heck.
• 1:06:45
  And so I meet him. We start working together.
• 1:06:47
  Like, what are you dude? What are you afraid of?
• 1:06:49
  I'm just mad. You're mad because you're
• 1:06:51
  afraid. Mad is a secondary emotion to
• 1:06:53
  fear. All mad people are just the
• 1:06:55
  madder you are, the more afraid you are anyway.
• 1:06:58
  And so I start meeting with him and we work through and what is
• 1:07:01
  he? He hates himself, he hates
• 1:07:04
  himself. He's an embarrassment.
• 1:07:05
  He failed. He bought all this stuff.
• 1:07:07
  Yeah, but that God. When?
• 1:07:09
  When did? When did God doesn't call you a
• 1:07:10
  failure? When did?
• 1:07:11
  Who calls you a failure first? His dad to his father.
• 1:07:14
  OK, let's go back to that day. Jesus was with you on that day.
• 1:07:16
  Jesus was there the day your father first said that to you.
• 1:07:19
  What did he say to you on that? This is contemplation.
• 1:07:22
  What did he, what did he call you on that day when your dad
• 1:07:24
  said that to you? He told me that he was proud of
• 1:07:27
  me, right? He still is.
• 1:07:30
  He's been proud of you the whole time because he's proud of you,
• 1:07:33
  not because of that. You play football.
• 1:07:34
  He's proud of you because he made you.
• 1:07:37
  This is my beloved son and whom I'm well pleased.
• 1:07:39
  Why? Because he's my beloved son and
• 1:07:41
  whom I'm well pleased. Why?
• 1:07:42
  What did he do? Nothing.
• 1:07:44
  He's my beloved son. He that he's proud of you
• 1:07:48
  because he made you and gave you this identity.
• 1:07:51
  What does he call you? And he said, I think he calls me
• 1:07:53
  counselor. And I'm like, OK, well, in that
• 1:07:57
  identity, you're not a football player.
• 1:07:59
  You're not even really me. You're a counselor.
• 1:08:02
  Who does he want you to counsel? Families.
• 1:08:04
  He's got 2 divorces and his he doesn't even know where his kids
• 1:08:07
  are. He's like would God take someone
• 1:08:10
  like me and call me a counselor? I would say you wouldn't believe
• 1:08:13
  the people in the Bible that he comes brings into redemption and
• 1:08:17
  calls amazing. Like this is more accurate to
• 1:08:19
  what he would do. And you'll see it when we start
• 1:08:22
  reading the violins together. But like he takes rich traitors
• 1:08:24
  to the people of Israel and makes them the most generous
• 1:08:27
  people on the planet. Do you know why?
• 1:08:28
  Because they were always generous.
• 1:08:30
  They became they became hoarders out of fear.
• 1:08:34
  I said, OK, beautiful. OK, so today, what do we need to
• 1:08:37
  do for you to become a counselor to people?
• 1:08:39
  And he goes, I guess I need a degree going back to college.
• 1:08:42
  Let's go back to college. I can't go back to college.
• 1:08:44
  I'm 40, whatever. I'm like, So what?
• 1:08:47
  So what you got to go back? Why don't you want to go back to
• 1:08:50
  college? Because I'll look stupid.
• 1:08:52
  Here we go. Here's the fear.
• 1:08:53
  Here we go again. Me So me and another guy, we
• 1:08:57
  would go sit. He's this big giant guy and
• 1:08:59
  walking into a Community College classroom with a bunch of little
• 1:09:03
  17 years taking English one O 1 because he can't even write a
• 1:09:07
  freaking sentence. But we went with him.
• 1:09:10
  Like that's what the that's what community is for.
• 1:09:14
  Like we'll sit with you. What happened to this guy?
• 1:09:16
  He's a family counselor. He's going to graduate from a
• 1:09:19
  master's degree in the university that kicked him out.
• 1:09:22
  He went back. This is how the Lord does it.
• 1:09:24
  He takes him back and go, let's do it again.
• 1:09:28
  And he's practicing family therapy now.
• 1:09:31
  Out of a church, his wife's a believer.
• 1:09:35
  It's amazing. That's, but that's the.
• 1:09:37
  It's amazing but that. But that's the story of God.
• 1:09:39
  If we open our lives to the graces of God, we will see
• 1:09:44
  transformations everywhere in our own lives and in others.
• 1:09:48
  And we should consider that normal, not unusual.
• 1:09:51
  It shouldn't be like, oh, this one guy one time was this crazy,
• 1:09:55
  you know, rage filled alcoholic and had broken marriages and
• 1:09:58
  then just God. For just him there was a special
• 1:10:01
  miracle. And for just this one guy, he
• 1:10:04
  got this new start and now look what God has done.
• 1:10:06
  No, no, no. What you just described is
• 1:10:08
  supposed to be in the life of God's people.
• 1:10:11
  Normal. That's right.
• 1:10:13
  So and and that's right. And it should just be normal.
• 1:10:16
  And we as like, if you're a well person, you should be out
• 1:10:19
  finding the sick people and helping them walk into this.
• 1:10:22
  This is what this is what This is why what what Moses is
• 1:10:26
  talking to people, he's saying to them.
• 1:10:28
  We've started believing that separation is the way the world
• 1:10:31
  works. The way the world works is
• 1:10:33
  connection. Everything in the universe is
• 1:10:36
  connected. There's in also in our reality.
• 1:10:38
  There's no empty space. There's no such thing as empty
• 1:10:41
  space in our reality. So any time we're creating
• 1:10:44
  separation, it's like creating scarcity.
• 1:10:46
  We're creating a lie. We're creating something that
• 1:10:49
  goes against the order of the universe that God put together
• 1:10:53
  and we and then we start calling it normal or real.
• 1:10:57
  So when we start calling the lie reality, that's when we're in
• 1:11:01
  serious trouble because we've took line and sinker bought the
• 1:11:05
  lie as if it's real. And so when I'm talking to
• 1:11:08
  people, I don't say like, well, let's do it again.
• 1:11:10
  Well, you don't understand reality.
• 1:11:11
  I'm like, no, you don't understand reality.
• 1:11:14
  You're buying this lie that you're in like it's reality.
• 1:11:17
  Like you're not enough. Like there's not enough.
• 1:11:20
  It's never been true. It's never been true.
• 1:11:23
  There's there's nothing in nature going around going,
• 1:11:26
  there's not enough of time, nothing except humans saying
• 1:11:30
  that stuff because it's nobody else.
• 1:11:33
  Nobody else believes the lie except humans.
• 1:11:36
  And and you know, in the story of the Eve in the garden, you
• 1:11:40
  know, in that in the story of creation, the word sin is not
• 1:11:43
  used there. That's the word sin doesn't
• 1:11:45
  appear till the story of Cain and Abel.
• 1:11:48
  The word that what she does is she starts believing a lie about
• 1:11:52
  herself and about God. She's that God that God
• 1:11:57
  withheld, and she's not enough, and she doesn't have enough, and
• 1:12:00
  he ain't going to give it to her.
• 1:12:02
  And if you want it, you got to go get it yourself.
• 1:12:03
  There's the lie. What's her lie?
• 1:12:05
  Scarcity. The God is scarce.
• 1:12:09
  Where's he? What's he doing?
• 1:12:10
  Why didn't he give you that? Because he doesn't want you to
• 1:12:12
  be like him, that's why. Why?
• 1:12:15
  Why doesn't he want me to be like?
• 1:12:16
  Him that God is not good and generous.
• 1:12:19
  I mean, that's that's part of that lie.
• 1:12:21
  I mean, it's amazing to me to think about people that never
• 1:12:25
  step out in faith, whether it's to love someone in a special way
• 1:12:28
  or to try something new or open oneself up to something all out
• 1:12:32
  of love. It all come has to come back to
• 1:12:34
  love is the motivation, right? That's correct.
• 1:12:36
  But we don't because we're too old, we're too fat, we're too
• 1:12:40
  poor, we're not pretty enough, we're not smart enough.
• 1:12:42
  We're not, you know, God doesn't speak to me.
• 1:12:45
  I'm not special. I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:12:48
  right? There's going to be like, you
• 1:12:49
  know, 1,000,000 reasons. But but how do you recommend
• 1:12:52
  people discern? Because let's say somebody's
• 1:12:54
  like, well, I, I don't know, maybe does God want me to do
• 1:12:57
  this thing or does God want me to try this thing?
• 1:12:59
  And they're not sure how to determine.
• 1:13:02
  Is this my just idea? Someone else's idea might kind
• 1:13:05
  of sound good. It sounds scary as heck, but
• 1:13:07
  should I try? Yeah, so I so real quick process
• 1:13:10
  simple. I mean this is you can even try
• 1:13:12
  this yourself. I do this all the time.
• 1:13:13
  We all do this is take a piece of paper.
• 1:13:16
  All of your viewers can do this. Take a piece of paper and this
• 1:13:19
  is just a good practice to do. Our teams do it before team
• 1:13:23
  meetings, before business meetings.
• 1:13:25
  We do this with groups of police officers.
• 1:13:27
  Like take a piece of paper and just just, you know, breathe,
• 1:13:32
  try and calm yourself down and just do this.
• 1:13:35
  Write down all the names you believe about yourself that hurt
• 1:13:38
  you. Just write down all the names
• 1:13:41
  you believe about yourself that hurt you.
• 1:13:44
  Just try and write them down. I'm ugly.
• 1:13:45
  I'm all the things you just said.
• 1:13:47
  I'm not smart enough. I'm not lovable.
• 1:13:51
  I'm I'm, I'm too much. Just write.
• 1:13:54
  It'll come to your mind. They'll come to your mind.
• 1:13:56
  Don't dig for them. It's we're not psychoanalyzing.
• 1:13:58
  It's just like, what do you believe?
• 1:13:59
  I'm a disappointment. That's my big one.
• 1:14:00
  I'm a disappointment. I'm going to be and people are
• 1:14:02
  going to be disappointed in what I say or do.
• 1:14:05
  Just write those. Those are identity statements.
• 1:14:08
  I am a disappointment. I am fat, I am ugly, I am
• 1:14:11
  unlovable, I'm poor. Those are all identity
• 1:14:14
  statements that are not true. So you write them down.
• 1:14:19
  This, this is, that's truth telling.
• 1:14:20
  That's what confession is God. This is what I believe and you
• 1:14:23
  ask God, search me and know me and reveal to me anyway in me.
• 1:14:26
  That's offensive in you. What's offensive to God is that
• 1:14:29
  you call yourself things He doesn't call you that's offend
• 1:14:33
  that offends him. He has a name he calls you and
• 1:14:36
  you don't call yourself that. You call yourself a name the
• 1:14:38
  enemy calls you and you live by it.
• 1:14:40
  That offends him that a good parent who names their kid and
• 1:14:43
  they go get a name of some person that's destroying them
• 1:14:46
  and use that instead of the name you gave them.
• 1:14:47
  That's offensive. He's not looking for you
• 1:14:50
  committed this sin. It's like what do you believe
• 1:14:53
  about yourself that I didn't ever said right and so write
• 1:14:57
  those down. That's confession and then
• 1:15:00
  imagine, be in prayer with Christ and hand him the list and
• 1:15:06
  say Jesus. I give to Jesus because he's the
• 1:15:08
  exact representation of the invisible God.
• 1:15:10
  So we fix our eyes on Jesus, we imagined.
• 1:15:12
  Give him the list, what it watch what he does with that list of
• 1:15:16
  all those names. Watch what he does with it.
• 1:15:18
  I'm not good, I'm unworthy. Give him the name, Write down
• 1:15:21
  the name, I'm unworthy and hand it to him and watch what he does
• 1:15:24
  with that piece of paper. It's really beautiful in a group
• 1:15:27
  of people, the things they see Jesus do with that piece of
• 1:15:31
  paper is the most liberating thing they'll ever see.
• 1:15:34
  Because one thing he's not going to do is go, Yep, that's right.
• 1:15:37
  He's not going to, he doesn't do it.
• 1:15:39
  He, he died to take that list away forever.
• 1:15:43
  Why do we keep taking it back? So you give him that list, give
• 1:15:47
  it to him, and then we go around, what do you do?
• 1:15:50
  We do this in public schools. It's incredible what kids say.
• 1:15:53
  What did he do with the list? He ate it, he burned it, he
• 1:15:55
  turned it into birds. He I mean, it's so everything
• 1:15:58
  that's important to that person, he does it with that list puts
• 1:16:03
  it in his wounds. It's incredible.
• 1:16:05
  We've done this all over the Middle East because he, he talks
• 1:16:09
  to all people. And so and then, OK, it's gone.
• 1:16:13
  OK, now the house is swept clean.
• 1:16:14
  But if you don't fill that house with truth, those names will
• 1:16:17
  come right back. They'll be back here in 20
• 1:16:20
  minutes, stronger than before. So we sweep it, but we tear up
• 1:16:23
  those pieces of paper, whatever blank piece of paper.
• 1:16:25
  OK, Jesus, I give you those names.
• 1:16:29
  I reject those names in the name of Jesus.
• 1:16:30
  What do you say about me? What do you say about me?
• 1:16:33
  Get your pen ready. And you write down what comes
• 1:16:36
  into your mind. This is how you learn to listen
• 1:16:39
  to the voice of God and you and you have to learn and discipline
• 1:16:44
  yourself the way he talks to you because he talks to you
• 1:16:48
  distinctly. It could be in pictures, it
• 1:16:50
  could be in words, it could be in Bible verses.
• 1:16:53
  And you start to practice hearing the voice of the one who
• 1:16:56
  loves you and the one who knows you and you write down what you
• 1:17:00
  sense here feel see, you start practicing like this, receiving
• 1:17:04
  from God, receiving from God. And then you share it with the
• 1:17:07
  group. Now, if someone reads out like
• 1:17:10
  he said that I'm close but not close enough to the community
• 1:17:15
  will say, well, and that doesn't line up with scripture at all.
• 1:17:18
  What he says to you will line up with how God talks to people in
• 1:17:22
  the Bible. Is it profitable?
• 1:17:24
  Is it good and pure and beautiful?
• 1:17:26
  Is it does it fill you with joy? Does it energize you?
• 1:17:29
  Does it does it make you feel closer to him?
• 1:17:31
  These these beautiful? Is it Lovejoy, peace, patience,
• 1:17:35
  goodness? Does it promote that inside of
• 1:17:37
  you? What is I'm ugly?
• 1:17:38
  What does that do to you? That's the word of the enemy.
• 1:17:41
  What does his word do when you hear it?
• 1:17:43
  Does it make you feel like, Oh my gosh, that's so much more
• 1:17:45
  than me. That's him.
• 1:17:47
  This is the this is a person hearing what the enemy says
• 1:17:50
  about him. And they go, you're not a you're
• 1:17:54
  not a good husband. Here's when Jesus talks and this
• 1:17:56
  is what they do. You're you're a mighty man of
• 1:18:00
  valor. You're the deliverer of a
• 1:18:04
  nation. Who who me?
• 1:18:05
  You're kidding. Because what he says to us takes
• 1:18:09
  faith to believe. What the enemy says to us takes
• 1:18:13
  no faith to believe. But when he says what he thinks
• 1:18:15
  about you, it's going to take you faith to believe it, because
• 1:18:19
  you won't believe how highly he thinks of you, right?
• 1:18:24
  He's going to look up at Zacchaeus in the tree and go
• 1:18:27
  come down. I want to be at your house.
• 1:18:29
  I don't hate you like all these people.
• 1:18:31
  I want to be at your house even though these people don't like
• 1:18:34
  you. I want to be at your house.
• 1:18:36
  It's hard to believe. Do you know who I am?
• 1:18:38
  Do you know what I do? Yes.
• 1:18:40
  That's why I want to be at your house.
• 1:18:42
  So you write down those identities, those names, and as
• 1:18:47
  you learn how he refers to you and talks to you, then our next
• 1:18:50
  question is, that's your being. What does that do?
• 1:18:55
  So my identity is militant Peacemaker.
• 1:18:59
  What does a militant peacemaker do vocationally in the world?
• 1:19:03
  Lots of things. But whatever I do, there needs
• 1:19:06
  to be conflict that's being resolved in that location.
• 1:19:09
  Wherever I go, where there's peaceful stuff going on, I I
• 1:19:12
  don't know what to do. My identity was created to go to
• 1:19:16
  conflict situations and I thrive there.
• 1:19:19
  If you take me and put me in another situation, I won't
• 1:19:22
  thrive. So my identity being informed,
• 1:19:27
  doing so once the people start to work on identity, like I'm a
• 1:19:31
  healer of the nations, OK, that could be a doctor, that could be
• 1:19:34
  a philosopher, that could be a diplomat.
• 1:19:36
  Then you start looking where, where does that go to give to
• 1:19:39
  the world? Where do you give that to the
• 1:19:40
  world? And when that identity gets in
• 1:19:43
  that vocation, there's, they're excellent at it and they'll be
• 1:19:47
  the highest performers in that vocation.
• 1:19:50
  You don't have to compete. It's, it's your gift to the
• 1:19:53
  world. And no one has to say, please
• 1:19:55
  work harder there. You're, It's, it's, it makes you
• 1:19:57
  alive, right? So, so put me in a domestic
• 1:20:02
  dispute. It's the greatest joy of my life
• 1:20:05
  because I can give them the gift of my identity, right?
• 1:20:08
  And while you're doing that, you stay in community with people
• 1:20:12
  who love you and know you, and you can keep bouncing it off
• 1:20:17
  other people, bounce it off the scriptures, bounce it off the
• 1:20:19
  community. To make sure that you just don't
• 1:20:21
  go off the rails and that's how you do it.
• 1:20:24
  It's so gorgeous. So it sounds like you're saying
• 1:20:27
  that in addition to, of course, being beloved sons and daughters
• 1:20:31
  of God who were created to help build his beautiful Kingdom of
• 1:20:37
  love, you know, like and for eternity, right, and get souls
• 1:20:40
  to heaven on this journey that we're on in the continuum of
• 1:20:43
  time, right? You're saying that there's
• 1:20:45
  specific gifts, specific gifts that God has given and entrusted
• 1:20:50
  each soul with in this life to use.
• 1:20:54
  And I, I think about the parable of the talents, which it's very
• 1:20:57
  crystal clear. This is what the Lord is saying.
• 1:20:59
  You're given certain things and don't be afraid and trust in me
• 1:21:04
  and use them in service of me and others.
• 1:21:08
  And I will do amazing things. And, and I think a lot of times
• 1:21:12
  people don't know their gifts, they don't understand their own
• 1:21:16
  gifts or they are fearful that, you know, they can't fully use
• 1:21:19
  them or they think they have gifts that are just aren't going
• 1:21:21
  to be used. Can you speak more to the gifts
• 1:21:25
  that God gives us in our identity and how we can
• 1:21:30
  determine that we're fully utilizing our gifts instead of
• 1:21:33
  having some remain latent? So when you think about gifts
• 1:21:38
  when you're reading Scripture, there's a limited number of
• 1:21:40
  gifts in Scripture. Like there's, you know,
• 1:21:43
  depending on what list you're going by, there's a limited
• 1:21:45
  number of gifts, gifts and there's an unlimited number of
• 1:21:48
  people. So the gifts are going to be
• 1:21:50
  common among people. Identities are all distinct,
• 1:21:55
  right? So the identity is to understand
• 1:21:58
  your identity is what you are going to do with whatever gifts
• 1:22:03
  you have, right? So, so Gideon, he's a great
• 1:22:06
  example. So Gideon's hiding in a cave.
• 1:22:08
  If you ask Gideon his identity, he would say, I am, I'm of I'm
• 1:22:12
  of the tribe of the least of the least of the tribes of the
• 1:22:17
  people. And he and the way he's
• 1:22:19
  demonstrating his identity is he's hiding in a cave, right?
• 1:22:24
  So he's living. So now he has gifts.
• 1:22:27
  He has gifts, but those gifts are never going to come into
• 1:22:30
  play because of how he identifies himself as he.
• 1:22:34
  And so when the Angel of the Lord comes to him and says calls
• 1:22:38
  him mighty man of valor, not it's not activating gifts, it's
• 1:22:42
  activating his identity, his the Angel of the Lord's question is
• 1:22:46
  why is my mighty man of valor hiding in a cave?
• 1:22:51
  Why is this incredible identity hiding in a cave with Moses?
• 1:22:56
  Why is my deliverer of nations a shepherd in the backside of
• 1:23:02
  nowhere? I did.
• 1:23:03
  That's not the I didn't give you the identity of goat herder.
• 1:23:07
  I gave you the identity of deliverer of nations.
• 1:23:10
  You have all the gifts, but they're buried over here.
• 1:23:13
  As a goat herder, you have all the gifts, but you're never
• 1:23:17
  going to know 'cause you're living in a cave, right?
• 1:23:19
  You have all the gifts, but you've resigned yourself to some
• 1:23:22
  nine to five job. That's meaningless, where the
• 1:23:26
  gifts don't matter. Or you could even be using them
• 1:23:29
  to a degree, but it's 'cause you don't know who you are for those
• 1:23:33
  gifts to come alive, whatever the gifts are.
• 1:23:35
  And so once Gideon steps out of The Cave and he debates it, he
• 1:23:39
  has that like, what do you believe about yourself?
• 1:23:41
  I, I, I think I'm the least and we're the least.
• 1:23:43
  And God's forsaken us. That's what he says.
• 1:23:45
  You've, God has left us here. He's doing confession.
• 1:23:49
  And then the Angel of the Lord is saying, no, I left a mighty
• 1:23:53
  man of valor here. The problem is not did I leave
• 1:23:56
  you. The problem is why aren't you
• 1:23:57
  walking in the identity that I didn't knit together in your
• 1:24:00
  mother's room? And he's not saying now that I'm
• 1:24:02
  here magically, you're becoming a mighty man of valor.
• 1:24:06
  You've always been this. And when Gideon debates, the
• 1:24:09
  Lord says, go in the strength you've always possessed, go in
• 1:24:13
  the strength you. It's not new.
• 1:24:15
  You've always had it. You just don't know who you are.
• 1:24:19
  And it's, and this is the beauty of a relationship with Christ.
• 1:24:22
  Only Christ can tell you who you are.
• 1:24:25
  That's why we need him. And in him we are reborn, born
• 1:24:29
  again. We're saved.
• 1:24:30
  This is what he's doing. That's what he's doing.
• 1:24:33
  You're, you're born again. Into what?
• 1:24:35
  Into your mother's room again? No, into the reality and truth
• 1:24:37
  of who you are and who I am. Now in that identity.
• 1:24:42
  Now what gifts come into play in that?
• 1:24:45
  The identity being informs what gifts come into play.
• 1:24:49
  Then you want to explore the gifts.
• 1:24:51
  If you have a person who's trying to figure out gifts that
• 1:24:53
  don't know their identity, it doesn't really function.
• 1:24:57
  Identity is the essence of who you are.
• 1:24:59
  It's the truest thing about you. It's grounded and rooted in
• 1:25:03
  love, and it's only created by God in you.
• 1:25:06
  That's what identity is. So would you say that the only
• 1:25:10
  the only way to determine your identity is to listen for the
• 1:25:14
  voice of God? Is isn't it?
• 1:25:16
  Is to have an experiential encounter with the living God?
• 1:25:18
  Yeah, that's what we would. That's why we have to, the
• 1:25:21
  terminology that we use. Get saved to get born again.
• 1:25:24
  Yeah. There's no one in scripture that
• 1:25:26
  knows who they are that don't have an experiential encounter
• 1:25:29
  with God. What we have are people living
• 1:25:32
  out a kind of religion with no real experiential encounter with
• 1:25:37
  God on a regular basis. And and this is because the
• 1:25:40
  human person is not a robot meant to just be given inputs by
• 1:25:45
  other people, even by faith that we know to be true objectively,
• 1:25:48
  right, or we believe we've been given the gift of faith to
• 1:25:50
  believe it's true and they just then program us and then we just
• 1:25:53
  did it right. Like we're meant to be Co
• 1:25:56
  creators with God. That's part of the human
• 1:25:58
  identity is creation. Creativity is essential to the
• 1:26:01
  human identity. And so we have to talk to our
• 1:26:05
  Father, we have to talk to our Lord, we have to talk to the
• 1:26:08
  Holy Spirit. And this is what I think a lot
• 1:26:11
  of Christians, certainly non Christians too, but Christians
• 1:26:14
  get kind of weirded out by they don't know what to do with.
• 1:26:16
  And let's say they do the exercise you just offered, which
• 1:26:20
  you pray, you ask God, what are my false beliefs, the false
• 1:26:23
  names you call me. We had Father John Ricardo on
• 1:26:26
  the show recently, actually this beautiful Catholic priest of
• 1:26:29
  this ministry and he very similar.
• 1:26:31
  Pray ask the Lord, you know, what do you say about me?
• 1:26:34
  I mean it it you have to ask that question.
• 1:26:37
  OK, so let's say that you write down and and let's just there's
• 1:26:39
  a gal and she says, OK, the Lord says that I am AI am a great
• 1:26:43
  helper, you know, to to the lost or something like this, right?
• 1:26:48
  She's given them this beautiful thing that really resonates with
• 1:26:51
  her soul. She's a mom of three, let's say,
• 1:26:54
  or, you know, a few kids. She's maybe got some part time
• 1:26:57
  jobs. She's got, you know, a husband,
• 1:26:58
  her own issues, whatever. Let's just say she's OK.
• 1:27:01
  What does that mean? How do I, how do I do that?
• 1:27:05
  Is this for my kids? Like what are the next steps?
• 1:27:08
  Once you start to you feel like you're starting to hear the
• 1:27:11
  voice of God, you're getting you're getting these
• 1:27:12
  inspirations. What are the next steps to then
• 1:27:15
  actually activate on the inspirations?
• 1:27:17
  Yeah, so once the Lord again, if you just watch in Scripture what
• 1:27:20
  happens. So once Gideon has that
• 1:27:22
  identity, once he understands I'm a mighty man, then the Lord
• 1:27:26
  starts to lead him through a process of actions.
• 1:27:30
  And the first one is go tear down the gods in your own house.
• 1:27:34
  Like it's not go deliver a nation.
• 1:27:35
  It's like you have the idols are in your house.
• 1:27:38
  That's step number one. Wow, we wouldn't think to do
• 1:27:41
  that. We're like, OK, I'm a I'm a
• 1:27:42
  helper of the nations. I'm going to go out into the
• 1:27:44
  nations. No, no, no, no, no Jerusalem,
• 1:27:48
  Judea, Samaria. Then like start right here,
• 1:27:51
  right now. OK, Helper of the nations needs
• 1:27:54
  to know how, what does God want to do in you?
• 1:27:57
  How does he want to help you? First you have to receive his
• 1:28:02
  help in order for you to become the helper.
• 1:28:05
  So you have to become an expert in how he helps you.
• 1:28:08
  So, so one of my distinctive identities is I'm an untire of
• 1:28:11
  knots. So like I, one of my gifts is
• 1:28:14
  like to go into a situation where a person's knotted up and
• 1:28:16
  just like help him unravel it. But I have to be an expert in
• 1:28:20
  God doing that in me first. That's why a lot of counselors
• 1:28:24
  are counseling. But they or people running peace
• 1:28:27
  negotiation have no peace. They don't have any peace.
• 1:28:30
  How are you going to lead a peace negotiation?
• 1:28:32
  That's why we peace negotiations don't work because no one at the
• 1:28:35
  table has inner peace. So again, you can't give away.
• 1:28:39
  So if, if, if you have a stay at home mom and God says you're a
• 1:28:42
  helper of the nations, OK #1 how do you receive help from God?
• 1:28:45
  You before you start helping them understand how to receive
• 1:28:48
  help from God, you have to be the expert in receiving help
• 1:28:51
  from God. So let's say your identity is
• 1:28:54
  something like, you know, connector or communicator of the
• 1:28:58
  spirit or something like that. That means you have to be the
• 1:29:01
  expert in how the spirit communicates to you, because
• 1:29:04
  what you're going to do, your gift to the world is to give
• 1:29:07
  that capacity to communicate to other people.
• 1:29:10
  Now they're going to do different things with it, but
• 1:29:12
  that's what you bring. So if you and I go to work in a
• 1:29:15
  wherever and we hit a situation like, man, there's zero
• 1:29:18
  communication in here. Boom, you're up.
• 1:29:21
  Your identity's up like a good team, like a good basketball
• 1:29:24
  team or, or special apps team. It's like we don't compete
• 1:29:28
  because I'm not, I'm not the gift of I don't have the
• 1:29:31
  identity of communicator. So when we need that gift,
• 1:29:34
  there's no competition. It's like you're up and then you
• 1:29:38
  start teaching them how to communicate.
• 1:29:39
  And you said, wow, we hit a knot here.
• 1:29:41
  OK, I'm up, right? OK, now we're back to you're up.
• 1:29:46
  And our teams don't compete with one another.
• 1:29:48
  They rotate. They rotate in when the
• 1:29:51
  identities are needed. So and so we don't have
• 1:29:54
  jealousy. We don't have conflict because I
• 1:29:57
  can't I'm not who the other people are like that.
• 1:30:01
  So that stay at home mom what she wants to become an expert in
• 1:30:03
  is OK. How does God help you?
• 1:30:05
  It's all the ways he helps you study the word helper in
• 1:30:08
  scripture into the ground. Become an expert in the word
• 1:30:11
  helper. What does it mean?
• 1:30:13
  What does it mean in literature, Lord, what do you want me to
• 1:30:16
  know more about Helper? Helper to specifically helper to
• 1:30:20
  who? What kind of help?
• 1:30:22
  Like it's just this beautiful journey of like forever because
• 1:30:26
  there's a thousand ways to help people.
• 1:30:29
  What's which nations? How do I help this nation as
• 1:30:32
  compared to that nation? It's just this endless mystery
• 1:30:37
  that you keep exploring and you keep discovering deeper, deeper
• 1:30:41
  levels of yourself so that when you look in the mirror, you say,
• 1:30:44
  Lord, I love what you did when you made me.
• 1:30:47
  I had no idea what you did when you put me together.
• 1:30:50
  I thought I was just this, the more I walk with you.
• 1:30:54
  And what it does is it makes you worship him more.
• 1:30:58
  And then it makes you look at another person and go, how many
• 1:31:01
  levels are in that person, right?
• 1:31:03
  It makes you love the others because you realize, wow.
• 1:31:07
  And they don't even know who they are.
• 1:31:09
  I wish they knew who they were. And then so then you start to
• 1:31:11
  have this compassion on other people.
• 1:31:14
  And this person's so afraid they're just going to fight all
• 1:31:16
  the time. Like, I feel bad for them.
• 1:31:18
  I have mercy on that. Like that.
• 1:31:21
  Does that make sense? It it of course makes sense.
• 1:31:24
  I think the project I'm so interested in, and it's partly
• 1:31:28
  the project of this show, we've had on a lot of different people
• 1:31:32
  talking about tools that you can use to discover your identity,
• 1:31:37
  to discover your gifts, to discern how the evil 1 might be
• 1:31:42
  trying to scare you or tempt you to hear God's voice, you know,
• 1:31:48
  to be a follower of Jesus, right?
• 1:31:52
  And I hear a lot of different lenses that people have used
• 1:31:57
  beautifully to do pieces of this or maybe do all of it.
• 1:32:01
  And many of them, if not all of them are, are compatible,
• 1:32:06
  compatible with each other. I think for example, you know,
• 1:32:09
  we had Father John Ricardo on this lines up very beautifully,
• 1:32:13
  you know, with what you're saying.
• 1:32:14
  I think about the life plan. I don't know if you've heard of
• 1:32:17
  this process that some people, Christians and non Christians
• 1:32:19
  can use. We had, you know, my coach Laura
• 1:32:21
  Brasov on one of my coaches who did this life plan, working
• 1:32:24
  backwards, listening for the voice of God.
• 1:32:27
  I think there's a lot of beauty in that strategy you've, you've
• 1:32:30
  met, you've probably heard of Pat Lencione, you know, Cody
• 1:32:32
  Thompson, amazing guys. And he has all these tools to
• 1:32:35
  ascertain your talents and your weaknesses and your strengths
• 1:32:38
  and the work environment. And I see this constellation of
• 1:32:41
  all of, you know, there's temperaments and personalities
• 1:32:43
  and discovering the temperament God gave you and what that
• 1:32:45
  means, blah, blah, blah, right? There's this whole constellation
• 1:32:48
  of tools. There's beauty to that, but
• 1:32:50
  there's a danger to that because I think people are like, well, I
• 1:32:52
  can pick and choose and you know, this one kind of works for
• 1:32:55
  me. This one doesn't.
• 1:32:56
  And this one's more secular world.
• 1:32:58
  This is more for Christianese and blah, blah.
• 1:33:00
  And my concern is we have this crisis today.
• 1:33:03
  I believe in and outside of the Church of people not really
• 1:33:07
  living in their identity, despite all the little tools out
• 1:33:11
  there. That's right.
• 1:33:12
  We we don't just get back. We call it the primer.
• 1:33:15
  It's like you can put all this expensive paint on a wall, it's
• 1:33:18
  going to peel off unless that wall is primed.
• 1:33:21
  And identity is the primer of everything that comes to us.
• 1:33:26
  And a false identity can't hold it.
• 1:33:29
  The false identity, the training will peel off all the, you know,
• 1:33:33
  the Christian props, they'll all break down because deep down
• 1:33:37
  inside my identity is I'm unworthy.
• 1:33:40
  I'm unworthy, not smart enough. I'm I'm alone and you can you,
• 1:33:46
  you know, you can try and cover that with everything, but it
• 1:33:49
  doesn't work. That's why.
• 1:33:50
  So when Jesus gets baptized, the very first thing the Father says
• 1:33:55
  to him is this is my son in whom I'm he.
• 1:33:59
  He speaks identity into Jesus as the number one action before
• 1:34:04
  Jesus goes out into ministry. And then when he meets the
• 1:34:09
  enemy, which is super strategic, that Jesus is sent immediately
• 1:34:12
  by the Spirit to the enemy, not afraid of the enemy, out to face
• 1:34:17
  the enemy. That's very strategic.
• 1:34:19
  That's another thing we should be very good at doing.
• 1:34:22
  But when the enemy comes to Jesus, the temp the the
• 1:34:25
  temptation is if you are the Son, it's an assault immediately
• 1:34:29
  on the identity that God has given him.
• 1:34:32
  Because if that identity of son cracks, the rest of it won't
• 1:34:36
  matter. If he started to see himself as
• 1:34:40
  anything other than Son and loved and and beloved and
• 1:34:45
  pleased in Son, the rest of it will fall apart.
• 1:34:48
  It's his vocation is Messiah, but his identity is Son.
• 1:34:54
  And that's the foundation. Because when he's in the garden
• 1:34:57
  and he's facing the cross, it's, it's his relation as son, that
• 1:35:02
  identity as son that carries him through.
• 1:35:05
  And it is challenged. It is challenged to the core.
• 1:35:09
  Hebrews, Hebrews 5 says he prayed with loud tears and
• 1:35:12
  crying to the one who was able to deliver him out from death
• 1:35:15
  because he was horrified at being separated from the bright
• 1:35:18
  presence of the Father. The Son didn't never, never
• 1:35:22
  wanted to be separated from the Father, the Messiah vocation,
• 1:35:26
  but the sun is the the sun is the primer.
• 1:35:29
  And so when you go into any community to try and bring
• 1:35:32
  transformation to that community, you can do change
• 1:35:34
  beliefs, values, environment, all of it.
• 1:35:38
  It won't last but you but they that identity's changed the
• 1:35:42
  whole all of them. Everything will change, right,
• 1:35:45
  when the drug dealer stops calling himself a dirtbag
• 1:35:48
  scumbag drug dealer to wow, actually, I'm a child of God,
• 1:35:53
  but more than that, I'm a Redeemer of a people.
• 1:35:56
  OK, well what is a Redeemer of a people do in your neighborhood?
• 1:36:01
  He stops the drugs, right? OK, now how do we do that?
• 1:36:05
  We need a community to do that. Who do we need?
• 1:36:08
  And then the community starts to come together.
• 1:36:10
  That identity drives it. And so when Jesus is accused by
• 1:36:14
  the Pharisees and everyone else, they are always calling him
• 1:36:18
  false names. You're Satan, you're a lie.
• 1:36:22
  They're always cursing him with false identities.
• 1:36:25
  And that's how the lie works in US.
• 1:36:29
  Satan doesn't care what you know, whether you know your
• 1:36:32
  gifts or not, or whether you know you're a working genius.
• 1:36:35
  He doesn't care about that. If you think you're unworthy,
• 1:36:37
  none of that's going to matter. None of it will matter in the
• 1:36:40
  end. You can even be a billionaire.
• 1:36:43
  Doesn't matter. You're not going to bring
• 1:36:44
  transformation of one thing in this world and that the enemy
• 1:36:48
  doesn't care what you do as long as nobody's experiencing
• 1:36:51
  transformation. So it sounds like the primer the
• 1:36:53
  primer on the wall like you're saying of your identity before
• 1:36:57
  you you paint on all the the tools and the you know processes
• 1:37:02
  you can explore to kind of better understand what God's
• 1:37:05
  calling of you and how to use your unique gifts.
• 1:37:08
  You know, and on and on is first son or daughter of God, Jesus as
• 1:37:12
  our example, who is the Son of God.
• 1:37:15
  But we are adopted into the family of God as his children.
• 1:37:17
  We are sons and daughters of God.
• 1:37:18
  We are all designed and destined for that.
• 1:37:20
  And then #2 is the unique really missions and then the gifts that
• 1:37:27
  accompany those missions that are for that are given to every
• 1:37:31
  human person, that no one doesn't have a mission, no one
• 1:37:35
  doesn't have a vocation or, you know, special gifts, everyone
• 1:37:38
  has them. And so once you've got your
• 1:37:40
  foundation firm and you know that God is your Father, He
• 1:37:44
  loves you as you. He created you for his love and
• 1:37:48
  you are good. He created you to be good.
• 1:37:50
  And you have that as your foundation that comes with the
• 1:37:53
  trust and the peace and all those those beautiful
• 1:37:55
  consolations. Then you can, you know, advance
• 1:37:58
  out under the water and do the great things that God is calling
• 1:38:02
  you to. That's right.
• 1:38:03
  That's right. So I like we have a baby, we
• 1:38:05
  have a son. The son comes into the world,
• 1:38:07
  our baby and he's he's a winship.
• 1:38:11
  He's a winship. He's a son of ours.
• 1:38:12
  He's a child of ours. He has everything.
• 1:38:15
  So we have that and he's he's imbued with these and then we
• 1:38:18
  name him. He already is in our family.
• 1:38:21
  He's part of our family's beloved son, but then we
• 1:38:24
  specifically name him and then he he.
• 1:38:27
  So he's he and he's distinct from his brothers in the same
• 1:38:31
  family and sisters he's named. And he knows he's distinct.
• 1:38:35
  So he doesn't think, well, I'm just one of the group here.
• 1:38:37
  No, you are. But you're distinct.
• 1:38:40
  And, and we don't want you to be like the other siblings.
• 1:38:44
  We're against it. We don't want you following him
• 1:38:47
  around. And when one parent says to you,
• 1:38:49
  you should be like your brother, it's wrong to say it's a curse.
• 1:38:54
  You are to be who you're supposed to be.
• 1:38:56
  Raise a child up in a way they're already bent and in the
• 1:38:59
  end they won't depart from it, but you try and bend them into
• 1:39:02
  an identity that you want to make them into.
• 1:39:04
  That's dangerous. Identify, help them understand
• 1:39:08
  who God says they are and raise them to be that.
• 1:39:12
  Those kids will not leave the faith, no matter who's talking
• 1:39:16
  to them in what university, anywhere in the world.
• 1:39:19
  If they can be swayed by a university professor, they don't
• 1:39:23
  know who they are anyway, right? And so then if that's the case,
• 1:39:27
  we have to keep hiding them from the world.
• 1:39:30
  We can't put them out in the world because we're afraid.
• 1:39:32
  Well, they'll be swept away by that.
• 1:39:33
  Then they don't know who they are.
• 1:39:35
  If they only knew that who they are because I'm standing there
• 1:39:37
  protecting them. They don't know who they are,
• 1:39:40
  but we got to keep building our own private places for them so
• 1:39:43
  they can only encounter what we want them to account.
• 1:39:46
  Then they're of no use in the world.
• 1:39:48
  We we want kids who understand their identity so distinctly and
• 1:39:54
  and is so foundational in knowing that it's in their
• 1:39:57
  relationship with Christ that they know it and walk in it,
• 1:40:00
  that we could send them anywhere in the world like Daniel.
• 1:40:04
  And they're not victims of the world.
• 1:40:06
  They influence the world. Even when they're sold into
• 1:40:10
  those countries, even if they're human trafficked into those
• 1:40:13
  countries, they end up influencing the whole place.
• 1:40:16
  That's what we want our kids to be like, not afraid of the world
• 1:40:21
  saying, saying, here we are, send us.
• 1:40:24
  We're going to go. But we're not going to fight
• 1:40:25
  them. We're going to win them.
• 1:40:28
  We're not going to beat them. We're going to win them.
• 1:40:32
  That's a whole different, way more powerful game and it's it's
• 1:40:35
  incredible and it does work. It is incredible and it's the,
• 1:40:39
  it's the, it's the life of the of the Christ follower.
• 1:40:44
  I know we're going to wrap here in just a couple minutes, but is
• 1:40:48
  there anything that you would say to people listening for how
• 1:40:52
  to discern the temptations of the Evil 1 to get them not
• 1:41:00
  living in their identity and not hearing the voice of God?
• 1:41:04
  Yeah, the enemy. The enemy, as far as I'm
• 1:41:06
  concerned, only has two weapons, accusation and deception.
• 1:41:11
  Accusation and deception. That's all the enemy has.
• 1:41:14
  When we believe the accusation and deception, we empower the
• 1:41:18
  enemy. We give the enemy all kinds of
• 1:41:20
  power, but the enemy doesn't have the power till we give it.
• 1:41:24
  So. So when I start to entertain
• 1:41:27
  thoughts that are accusatory or deceptive counter to what
• 1:41:32
  scripture would say or the Spirit would say, or they're
• 1:41:34
  just straight out accusatory is not God.
• 1:41:38
  It's not God. God's voice is Lovejoy, peace,
• 1:41:42
  patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness,
• 1:41:44
  self-control. It's his kindness that leads us
• 1:41:47
  to repentance. God never accuses humanity.
• 1:41:50
  You said that earlier. So when you have a voice in your
• 1:41:53
  head accusing you and you start to think that's God, you're in
• 1:41:56
  trouble. You're in trouble because what
• 1:41:58
  it produces in you is fear, guilt and shame.
• 1:42:02
  And from the very beginning of Scripture, when God says to
• 1:42:04
  Adam, who told you to be ashamed?
• 1:42:06
  I didn't. I didn't tell you to be ashamed
• 1:42:10
  When you start believing that God's the one to come to make
• 1:42:13
  you ashamed of yourself, you're a deep in enemy territory.
• 1:42:17
  So yeah, so that's what I'm saying.
• 1:42:18
  Listen for the voice, the shepherd who knows who knows
• 1:42:22
  you're who calls you by name. And we recognize his voice.
• 1:42:26
  He came to make you alive. He came to make you alive.
• 1:42:30
  He didn't come to kill you or destroy you.
• 1:42:32
  He came to make you alive. And so the deception of the
• 1:42:35
  enemy is when people are having these ideas and I say, how does
• 1:42:39
  that make you feel? It makes me feel stupid, Not
• 1:42:42
  God. When when Peter denies him
• 1:42:47
  publicly, he never goes to him and says, you better apologize
• 1:42:49
  right now publicly to me. Never even asked him to say
• 1:42:52
  sorry. Never.
• 1:42:54
  All he says is, do you love me? Like that's how he talks.
• 1:42:58
  Even if you deny him publicly in front of everyone, the next time
• 1:43:01
  you're with him, if you go to him, which you have to, you want
• 1:43:03
  to run back to him, he's going to say, do you love me?
• 1:43:06
  Do you love me and just tell the truth?
• 1:43:09
  And he says to Peter, do you unconditionally love me?
• 1:43:11
  And Peter says, no, I don't. I love you like a brother and
• 1:43:13
  Jesus is like great, finally you're telling the truth.
• 1:43:14
  Go lead my sheep. Do you?
• 1:43:16
  Do you unconditionally love me a second time?
• 1:43:18
  No, I love you like a brother. That's all.
• 1:43:20
  I'm sorry. I only love you like a brother.
• 1:43:21
  Great. Go leave my sheep because you've
• 1:43:23
  always been going around telling everyone you're the greatest and
• 1:43:25
  you're never going to leave me and you're never going to.
• 1:43:26
  You never know none of that was true.
• 1:43:29
  Do you really then just love me like a brother?
• 1:43:31
  He says the third time. And Peter's like I do, you know
• 1:43:34
  my heart, you know my heart, you know I love you like a brother.
• 1:43:37
  Now go lead. Because for you to love me
• 1:43:40
  unconditionally, I will lead you to that.
• 1:43:43
  You don't have to come up with it.
• 1:43:44
  I told you at the beginning, follow me and I will make you to
• 1:43:47
  become. I am not here to accuse you that
• 1:43:50
  you don't love me enough. You love me as much as you can
• 1:43:54
  and stay with me and I will bring the increase and I so I
• 1:43:57
  think just recognize his voice. Just learn to recognize the
• 1:44:02
  voice of the Good Shepherd and stay away from the thief who
• 1:44:05
  comes to kill, steal and destroy.
• 1:44:06
  We know it. We can feel it down here.
• 1:44:09
  Humans know it. That's not true.
• 1:44:11
  It's it's it's this is here to hurt me.
• 1:44:13
  This is here to let. It'll scare me, but he's here to
• 1:44:15
  love you so. I've noticed today especially, I
• 1:44:18
  think this is especially made possible by social media
• 1:44:24
  technology. There is a tendency, and this
• 1:44:28
  has always been a human woundedness, right?
• 1:44:31
  The the the sin that we are able to commit, right, of labeling
• 1:44:36
  other people of accusing other people of distrusting other
• 1:44:40
  people. And I think Christians can sadly
• 1:44:44
  fall into this in a sense of we are, we are better because we
• 1:44:48
  are now, you know, baptized. We're people of God, whatever
• 1:44:52
  this label like we are the chosen people.
• 1:44:55
  You know, we're set apart and these other people, they are
• 1:44:58
  basically bad. I believe it's a diabolical, you
• 1:45:02
  know, plot. Instead of the accuser accusing
• 1:45:05
  about yourself in a way, he's boosting you up with a false
• 1:45:08
  identity of, of, of a hierarchy that you're somehow more special
• 1:45:12
  than these other creatures of God.
• 1:45:15
  And then you get to accuse the other.
• 1:45:16
  What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:45:19
  I mean, I think that's so right. Again, this is, this is, we call
• 1:45:22
  this the language of separation. God is a God of reconciliation.
• 1:45:26
  He's not he, God creates boundaries.
• 1:45:29
  He doesn't separate. He doesn't create separation.
• 1:45:31
  He creates boundaries between things.
• 1:45:34
  That's based on identity, right? He gives boundary, identity's
• 1:45:38
  boundary. The water's here, the Land's
• 1:45:40
  here. That's what he's doing.
• 1:45:41
  He's not separating them. So they don't ever have any
• 1:45:43
  contact with each other anymore. That's what humans do.
• 1:45:47
  And so, yeah, the, the I think of like we give this example.
• 1:45:52
  So you again back to Peter. Peter, you know, goes through
• 1:45:56
  the whole walk with Jesus, the denial, the restoration, He
• 1:45:59
  seized all the miracles, the upper room, the falling of the
• 1:46:03
  Spirit, all of that, all of that.
• 1:46:06
  He witnesses all of that and then you watch Him in Acts when
• 1:46:11
  you have Cornelius over here who's not doesn't know Jesus.
• 1:46:15
  He's a Roman. He's like probably considered at
• 1:46:17
  least in some way an enemy of the Christians.
• 1:46:20
  He's a Roman over here that's trying to seek out God in the
• 1:46:23
  way he knows how to do it. He doesn't have Christ, but he's
• 1:46:25
  trying. And he has this vision to invite
• 1:46:29
  Peter, the Jewish guy over and he immediately obeys it.
• 1:46:34
  He immediately responds to it. Then you have Peter who
• 1:46:37
  represents the believer, I mean the solid know Jesus guy.
• 1:46:42
  And he has a vision to eat this certain kind of food and to
• 1:46:48
  eventually go to the House of a Gentile and he won't go because
• 1:46:52
  they're unclean. So, so after he's been through
• 1:46:56
  all of this, Peter still believes that there's people
• 1:47:01
  that are unclean that he can't go to, even if God tells him to
• 1:47:04
  go there. And so I just say that as a
• 1:47:07
  warning to myself. Like we're never above the
• 1:47:11
  tendency to believe that I'm better than someone else.
• 1:47:15
  And so when he finally goes over there, you know, after three
• 1:47:18
  times of God's sin, you God, don't don't you tell me what's
• 1:47:21
  unclean. Stop telling me what's unclean.
• 1:47:24
  I made nobody makes a human. Satan doesn't make other people
• 1:47:27
  only God makes them. So when we say that person's
• 1:47:30
  unclean or that person's an animal or they're animals,
• 1:47:33
  you're, you're saying a person that God made, you're calling
• 1:47:37
  something God made that name. And, and, and so when he finally
• 1:47:41
  goes over there and Peter says, I now know, I now understand
• 1:47:45
  that God shows no favoritism between people.
• 1:47:49
  Like that's how far into his walk with God does before he
• 1:47:52
  gets that in his mind. And so I think you're exactly
• 1:47:55
  right. And I think we have to keep
• 1:47:57
  saying this to believers. I'm never I, I kind of get when
• 1:48:02
  a lost person calls people names because they're so lost and
• 1:48:06
  fearful. And but when someone that knows
• 1:48:08
  Christ is doing that, it's heartbreaking because like
• 1:48:12
  you're, you're operating in as much fear as a person that
• 1:48:15
  doesn't know Christ to say those kinds of, you know, to, to, to
• 1:48:18
  say they're not as good as us or we're better than them or we're
• 1:48:21
  the chosen and they're not. And so to me, again, it all
• 1:48:23
  keeps coming back to fear, but to fear God is the beginning of
• 1:48:27
  wisdom. And my fear with God is that I
• 1:48:30
  would ever think that I'm above that kind of thing.
• 1:48:34
  I, I mean, you know, we've, we've had, you know, our whole
• 1:48:39
  team was killed in, in the Middle East.
• 1:48:41
  And when you know the people in your neighborhood kill your
• 1:48:43
  team, it's very hard not to think you're better than them,
• 1:48:48
  especially when you have to keep working with that neighborhood
• 1:48:51
  even after notifying the families of the people that are
• 1:48:54
  dead. Then you got to go back and work
• 1:48:56
  with those same people where that happened.
• 1:48:58
  Then, then, then when Jesus says to you, I need, I'm commanding
• 1:49:02
  you to love those people. You're right.
• 1:49:03
  I'm commanding you to love them. I'm not commanding you to go
• 1:49:06
  take vengeance on them. That is my job.
• 1:49:09
  That is not your job, your job. For that, for this killing to
• 1:49:13
  end, those people need to be spiritually transformed.
• 1:49:16
  That means you have to view him the same way that you view
• 1:49:19
  yourself and and that's a challenge.
• 1:49:21
  And I think it's a high calling and I love that that's something
• 1:49:24
  that you brought up because we have to stop doing this.
• 1:49:27
  We have to. And I every day, it's like,
• 1:49:30
  Lord, help me to see, as Paul said, a right view of myself.
• 1:49:35
  Just a right view of myself before I start jumping.
• 1:49:41
  I wouldn't. I mean, social media is just a
• 1:49:42
  hotbed to do that kind of stuff, so.
• 1:49:44
  And it goes back to what you were saying earlier, Jamie,
• 1:49:47
  about the power and importance of contemplation, of prayer, of
• 1:49:50
  listening for the voice of God, of confessing to him.
• 1:49:53
  You know, the lies you're believing about yourself and
• 1:49:56
  about other people. That's right.
• 1:49:58
  Because that identity process that you shared so beautifully,
• 1:50:00
  which I think is such a powerful tool for every Christian to use,
• 1:50:04
  every Christ follower to use however you want to, you know,
• 1:50:06
  say it. It's also when you can use about
• 1:50:09
  other people, other people that you have trouble forgiving,
• 1:50:12
  other people that you're of anger towards, other people that
• 1:50:15
  you judge, you look down on, ask the Lord, what do you say about
• 1:50:18
  them? And you'll be surprised to hear
• 1:50:22
  what he may say. That's right.
• 1:50:23
  You know, I did. And finally on that, I was
• 1:50:25
  talking to these wealthy people and they were asking me like,
• 1:50:29
  why do I think that we have all this money in the Christian West
• 1:50:32
  and really nothing's changing crime wise and school shootings.
• 1:50:35
  And like we're not really affecting these things with all
• 1:50:38
  of this wealth that we have. And, and I and human trafficking
• 1:50:41
  is just continuing and all that. And I said, I think it's
• 1:50:44
  because, I think it's because we won't go take our wealth to
• 1:50:47
  Jesus and lay it down in front of him and say, give it wherever
• 1:50:49
  you want because we're afraid he'll give it to our rounds.
• 1:50:53
  We're afraid he'll give it to our enemies, which he probably
• 1:50:55
  will. So what we end up doing is just
• 1:50:58
  financing Christian causes that are agendas that we want to see
• 1:51:01
  happen, which isn't giving it to God.
• 1:51:04
  Very different things. So there's these all these deep
• 1:51:07
  things in our own heart that we were so you we've so figured out
• 1:51:10
  how to say them the right way and manipulate them.
• 1:51:14
  But to your point, we man, if you keep coming back and sitting
• 1:51:18
  with Christ, you know, in the, in the spirit and asking him,
• 1:51:21
  what do you want me to know and what do you want me to do?
• 1:51:24
  What a life. I mean, he just says the most
• 1:51:26
  amazing things and, and then you start, and then you investigate
• 1:51:29
  it in the scriptures and it's like, wow, they're, they're,
• 1:51:31
  they're doing it. That's what they're doing.
• 1:51:32
  And that's what they, that's what she did.
• 1:51:34
  And, and the scriptures come alive and, you know, just the
• 1:51:38
  whole thing is such beautiful good news.
• 1:51:41
  Such beautiful good news. I I think about to the the
• 1:51:44
  crisis of abortion and these are babies, these are children of
• 1:51:47
  God and the lies that women and men believe to think that this
• 1:51:51
  is the right way to go. And then I think the solution,
• 1:51:55
  you know, people who follow Christ to try to heal and bring
• 1:51:57
  freedom, you know, an openness of heart to not just adopt, but
• 1:52:02
  to Foster and to accompany families that are often repeat
• 1:52:06
  offenders. You know, for abortion, a single
• 1:52:08
  mom who then has an abortion of the next child because she can't
• 1:52:11
  bear it. What would the church look like
• 1:52:14
  if we were more willing to walk into places that maybe we fear
• 1:52:18
  or are foreign to us? That's right.
• 1:52:20
  In order to see and and to help bring the transformation.
• 1:52:23
  That's right. Yeah, I think, I think all the
• 1:52:25
  way back to what if. What if we just weren't afraid?
• 1:52:27
  What if the, the mom is not afraid of having that child,
• 1:52:32
  right? What if that the whole thought
• 1:52:33
  of having that child isn't just packed with panic and fear of
• 1:52:36
  the future And, and, and same on the other side.
• 1:52:40
  What if we weren't afraid to go in there and love that person?
• 1:52:42
  And you know, like we're going to have to help, you know, we've
• 1:52:46
  got to go in there. It's like you got to go invite
• 1:52:48
  the drug dealer to your house. If you're going to see something
• 1:52:50
  happen, you can't just sit back in your house and ask God to
• 1:52:53
  stop drugs. This doesn't work that way.
• 1:52:55
  That's not real. It's the false world and you got
• 1:53:00
  to get in there and, you know, like the Christians did in the
• 1:53:02
  early plagues, they moved into the plague ridden areas.
• 1:53:05
  That's what they did. And they died there with the
• 1:53:07
  people, with the plague. But that's how they won the
• 1:53:09
  world by doing that. We want a Christianity where
• 1:53:12
  none of that's involved, where we just can kind of do it
• 1:53:16
  vicariously somehow. But I mean, Jesus got his hands
• 1:53:20
  bloody and dirty for on our behalf.
• 1:53:22
  And so he's our model, he's our paradigm.
• 1:53:25
  So it's, but I mean, it's a glorious thing.
• 1:53:27
  It's not like drudgery. It's a glorious thing.
• 1:53:30
  And, and, and you know, when we're in places where, you know,
• 1:53:34
  my wife and I have been abducted together before and, and in
• 1:53:37
  those situations where those things happen, that's it.
• 1:53:40
  That's not something that happened to us because we're
• 1:53:42
  it's it was an invitation by God to be in a situation.
• 1:53:46
  But you, you and your wife were abducted, yeah.
• 1:53:49
  Yeah, it briefly. I know we're going long, but now
• 1:53:51
  you got to share, Jamie, You can't just drop that and not
• 1:53:53
  share what happened. Yeah.
• 1:53:55
  And we were, we were working, I'll just say in the Middle East
• 1:53:58
  and we were driving in a region that we thought was probably
• 1:54:01
  pretty safe and it wasn't. And we were driving across this
• 1:54:05
  bridge and these, these two pickup trucks with guys in black
• 1:54:09
  masks and everything cut us, cut us off and stopped us.
• 1:54:13
  We were in one car, my wife and I and A national guy and, and
• 1:54:17
  two of our kids and these guys jump out with AK-40 sevens and
• 1:54:21
  everything and screaming and yelling.
• 1:54:23
  And they take me and the driver of the car into one vehicle and
• 1:54:28
  they get in the car with my wife and two kids in the other.
• 1:54:32
  And so Donna, who she's incredibly, she's a very
• 1:54:35
  courageous woman. Her thing has always been
• 1:54:37
  whenever something bad happens, we've been in a lot of
• 1:54:40
  interesting situations. She's always says as long as I'm
• 1:54:43
  not separated from you, I can do it.
• 1:54:44
  Whatever it is, I can do it for. And so she was, she was saying
• 1:54:48
  to me when they were coming up to the car, she said don't let
• 1:54:51
  them, don't let them separate us.
• 1:54:53
  And I said, I'll try, but it's not, it's not like they're going
• 1:54:56
  to ask me my opinion of how this is going to go, right?
• 1:54:58
  I'm not going to make suggestions on how to do this.
• 1:55:02
  I tried. But anyway, they separated us.
• 1:55:04
  And so that was going into her worst fear.
• 1:55:06
  I know as to be and they just took me and the driver took off
• 1:55:10
  and left and I left and they got in the car with her and they
• 1:55:13
  drove. And so the me and the driver
• 1:55:20
  were like pretty calm because it wasn't super violent.
• 1:55:23
  It was we didn't know who, who what was happening, but it
• 1:55:26
  wasn't we've been in another situation with just immediate
• 1:55:29
  violence. And, and so this was, but I was
• 1:55:34
  more thinking about her and our, our sons were one was 17 and one
• 1:55:38
  was 14, eighth grade and 11th grade.
• 1:55:42
  And it was interesting. So they had grown up in the
• 1:55:45
  Muslim world, the 2 cell. I mean, they, our kids grew up
• 1:55:47
  in the Muslim, but they're Jewish.
• 1:55:49
  It's kind of odd. And they're Christ followers.
• 1:55:51
  So they had this really fascinating identity.
• 1:55:54
  Anyway, So they're so they told me later after we kind of, we
• 1:55:59
  kind of talked our way out of the whole thing eventually.
• 1:56:01
  But when they were in the car and Donna has Donna was afraid,
• 1:56:05
  then they drove us under the bridge.
• 1:56:08
  That's when I was like, uh, oh, they drove us down underneath
• 1:56:11
  the bridge. I was like, oh, boy, they're not
• 1:56:13
  taking us to a location. They're just going to take us
• 1:56:15
  under this bridge. And and there was like this
• 1:56:19
  little like like a little mobile home kind of thing.
• 1:56:24
  And they took me out and the driver out took us inside.
• 1:56:27
  And Donna was terrified that they were going to assault her.
• 1:56:31
  That's what she was afraid of that they were going to, you
• 1:56:33
  know, sexually assault her and that her two sons were there.
• 1:56:37
  That's what she was thinking in her mind.
• 1:56:39
  And so she she was she was tells people like you want.
• 1:56:44
  I want to say that I was filled with peace and grace and God
• 1:56:47
  over. She said I was terrified.
• 1:56:49
  And so she started singing a Christian song.
• 1:56:54
  But our sons, because they've grown up in this they've they
• 1:56:58
  lived through the collapse of the Indonesian government.
• 1:57:00
  We lived through all the riots and all of that was happening
• 1:57:02
  where there was no anyway, all that they didn't live through
• 1:57:04
  all of this stuff. What they do is they go to joy.
• 1:57:09
  That's their big thing. They go to what gives them joy
• 1:57:12
  in those situations. And so she started singing and
• 1:57:15
  they started laughing at her and teasing her about that she
• 1:57:20
  wasn't a good singer. Like that's how they countered
• 1:57:23
  her fear. And they're like, mom, please,
• 1:57:25
  you're we're getting abducted and you're making it worse by
• 1:57:28
  because you're singing a song and you don't even really know
• 1:57:30
  the words to. That's how they talk to her to
• 1:57:32
  get her to calm down. And they started laughing
• 1:57:36
  because the joy of the Lord is our strength.
• 1:57:38
  That is our strength. And so they, they also did that
• 1:57:41
  for themselves. So that's like, so they had
• 1:57:46
  learned how to do, we, we taught them how to do this kind of
• 1:57:49
  stuff because they, we knew they were going to live in this part
• 1:57:51
  of the world their whole life. They still live there.
• 1:57:53
  They went, moved back there after they got, they went back
• 1:57:55
  to that world there. So is their world.
• 1:57:58
  And and so they, so I would, I trained them how to like, here's
• 1:58:02
  what happens if you get abducted.
• 1:58:03
  Here's what happens if they break into or I just taught them
• 1:58:05
  all the time. But like a game, it was a game.
• 1:58:07
  I taught them how to play and I'm not to be afraid of it.
• 1:58:11
  Once you take the fear out of it, they can now you can
• 1:58:13
  navigate stuff and the Lord's with you, you know, and if it's
• 1:58:16
  time to go, it's going to be time to go and it'll be so
• 1:58:18
  quick, you won't even know. But if we're not, if he's not
• 1:58:20
  going to take you, then we can, we can do this.
• 1:58:24
  Like, and so I taught him how to hide, I taught him how to fight
• 1:58:26
  all that stuff. But I always did it as a game
• 1:58:29
  with them. So they were pretty skilled at.
• 1:58:31
  So that's what they were doing. They were laughing.
• 1:58:33
  And the, and the guys in the car, it does it has an effect on
• 1:58:38
  the people in the car. Because when I was taken by
• 1:58:40
  myself one time with four guys, another time when I did, I just
• 1:58:46
  kept asking like, what do you want me to know?
• 1:58:47
  And what do you want me to do? What do you want me to know?
• 1:58:49
  What do you want me to do? And not let the situation inform
• 1:58:52
  me, but just keep asking him and take every thought captive and
• 1:58:55
  stay in the present. Take it.
• 1:58:56
  Don't get one second ahead. Don't, don't jump 60 seconds
• 1:58:59
  ahead. Stay right in the present and
• 1:59:02
  just ask Lord where I'm not dead yet.
• 1:59:03
  I'm not thinking 6 I'm right here right now.
• 1:59:06
  What do you want me to know right now?
• 1:59:07
  And he just taught he can only talk to you in the present.
• 1:59:10
  He can't talk to you from the future.
• 1:59:13
  So when you jump into the future, he's not there, He's in
• 1:59:16
  the present. It's a great thing to remember.
• 1:59:19
  It's like, Lord, if I die, like you're not dead, it's just
• 1:59:21
  you're not dead. If they cut my, they haven't
• 1:59:24
  done that. Stop asking about that.
• 1:59:26
  We're not talking about, we're talking about this.
• 1:59:28
  And so, and it's a funny though, the effect that kind of thing
• 1:59:31
  when you're doing that has on because everything's connected.
• 1:59:35
  I'm connected to those people, whether they like it or not.
• 1:59:39
  Human, we're all connected and they can feel what I can feel.
• 1:59:45
  And so it's because I can feel what they can feel.
• 1:59:48
  I can feel their hostility. Can that go out like this stuff?
• 1:59:51
  Yes, it can't. Weak.
• 1:59:52
  But most of the time we just collapse to this, we just caved
• 1:59:56
  to it. But it's like, no, no, no, no,
• 1:59:58
  let's go out. Like let's bring the light out
• 2:00:00
  this way. Anyway.
• 2:00:01
  So that's what they were doing. So it turned out what happened
• 2:00:05
  was that we were driving in an area and they were, they were a
• 2:00:08
  militia working in that area. And they didn't know who we
• 2:00:11
  were. And so when we crossed over this
• 2:00:13
  bridge, they didn't, they had no idea what we were doing.
• 2:00:16
  And one of my sons was holding a video camera out the window and
• 2:00:20
  they thought we were some counter terrorist group.
• 2:00:23
  Videoing the bridge to bomb it. And so they were taking us to
• 2:00:28
  interrogate us and and do whatever they would do once they
• 2:00:31
  found out we were photographing the bridge to hurt to do
• 2:00:35
  something. And then they took the video
• 2:00:37
  camera from us and and they took it in and they watched it and
• 2:00:42
  then what Then they brought they came to me and they're like what
• 2:00:45
  is this that's on this video camera?
• 2:00:46
  And I'm like, I don't know it's my son's.
• 2:00:48
  I don't know. It's his.
• 2:00:49
  I don't know what's on it. And they said, they said, we're
• 2:00:52
  going to show you what's on it. You tell us what this is.
• 2:00:55
  And so he showed it to me. And they had been making a
• 2:00:57
  martial arts movie, our kids. And so they were filling these.
• 2:01:01
  Oh, gosh. And these guys thought it was
• 2:01:03
  the funniest thing. And they were, they all started
• 2:01:05
  laughing at what was on the video.
• 2:01:08
  And I'm like, oh, yeah, they're making a movie.
• 2:01:09
  They passed it all around. All the guys took off their
• 2:01:11
  masks in there. They passed it around.
• 2:01:13
  They all laughed at it, gave us the camera back and let us go.
• 2:01:16
  It's amazing. So.
• 2:01:18
  But you didn't show hostility or fear to them.
• 2:01:21
  And that helped, I'm sure, calm them because if you had seized
• 2:01:25
  up like fight or flight, they're like, yeah, these guys are up to
• 2:01:28
  no good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 2:01:30
  They're an enemy, enemy. I'm not saying it couldn't have
• 2:01:33
  ended favorably even if that had happened.
• 2:01:34
  But the the peace of the Lord is, is our strength.
• 2:01:39
  And it was your strength and it helped deliver you in that
• 2:01:42
  situation. I'm trained, I'm trained to
• 2:01:44
  disarm in that situation like I have.
• 2:01:46
  That's all my training is to fight in the I don't know how to
• 2:01:49
  do it. I, I could have got out of that
• 2:01:50
  car. The thing is, is that the right
• 2:01:53
  thing to do? So you're always asking the
• 2:01:54
  Lord, what do you want me to know and what do you want me to
• 2:01:57
  do? This is wisdom.
• 2:01:58
  Just give me wisdom because I can do what I was trained to do.
• 2:02:01
  Is that the right thing to do? And so the Lord was just in that
• 2:02:05
  situation. And in the other one, he just
• 2:02:06
  kept saying, I want you to stay calm and I want you to stay with
• 2:02:10
  them, stay with them, don't fight them, stay with them.
• 2:02:13
  But if I would have like grabbed one of those guys arms out there
• 2:02:16
  on the street when they were when they were separating me and
• 2:02:18
  Donna, if I would have grabbed one of them, that whole thing
• 2:02:21
  would have been over. If I'd have put one hand on one
• 2:02:24
  of them, that whole thing would have been over.
• 2:02:26
  You know, someone was going to get killed.
• 2:02:28
  And that was the Lord's like, don't do, don't do this.
• 2:02:31
  That's not the way to handle this.
• 2:02:32
  I'm not saying I'm not telling anyone what to do in a situation
• 2:02:35
  like that. All I'm saying is ask the Lord
• 2:02:38
  before you do it. That's all I'm saying.
• 2:02:40
  Ask him. Wow, before you go to violence,
• 2:02:44
  ask him. Is there another way we could do
• 2:02:46
  this? And the Prince of Peace
• 2:02:47
  typically has another way to do. It What was your name again?
• 2:02:51
  Militant What? So I have I'll show you Militant
• 2:02:54
  Peacemaker was the first time anyone ever did this with me was
• 2:02:57
  I was overseas and someone told me you don't know who you are
• 2:03:00
  and they. And when I asked the Lord what
• 2:03:02
  who do you say that I am? He said militant Peacemaker And
• 2:03:04
  I just cried my eyes out because it spoke to so much about myself
• 2:03:08
  that I didn't like. That's what it's so beautiful
• 2:03:11
  and it spoke to so many lies I believed about myself my whole
• 2:03:14
  life, even though I was very successful in everything I did,
• 2:03:18
  but that doesn't do anything inside right?
• 2:03:21
  And so I prayed that and, and then then later, a couple of
• 2:03:26
  years later, I was like, I was like zeroing out like, OK, what
• 2:03:29
  kind of militant peacemaker? And there's a verse in Mark in
• 2:03:32
  the passion that it talks about Jesus and it it says he, he told
• 2:03:36
  them many stories and united their knots.
• 2:03:39
  And the Lord said, that's what you do.
• 2:03:41
  You untie knots. And so I had this brass knot on
• 2:03:44
  my desk that reminds me that that my gift to the world is to
• 2:03:49
  untie people's knots. And so whenever I'm listening to
• 2:03:52
  them, even when I'm talking to you, I'm asking the Lord, would
• 2:03:55
  you please give to her if there's any knots in her life,
• 2:04:00
  Big little, just as we're talking, would you just allow
• 2:04:04
  the gift of my identity to go and just untie whatever can be
• 2:04:09
  united? Like that's the greatest thing I
• 2:04:11
  could give to you is that and as a parent, if you ask my kids,
• 2:04:15
  like what kind of dad did you have, they would say he united
• 2:04:18
  our knots. The greatest gift a parent can
• 2:04:21
  give to their kids is their own identity.
• 2:04:24
  That's and that means that's how you know to be a good parent is
• 2:04:28
  give them the give them the gift of the identity that God gave
• 2:04:31
  you. The greatest gift I give Don is
• 2:04:33
  I'm an entire of her knots. That's what I do and I can't
• 2:04:38
  it's comes out of me organically.
• 2:04:40
  So and that's it's so beautiful to her that I would do that for
• 2:04:45
  she's a timeless life giver and and that's what she constantly
• 2:04:50
  gives me life, right. So that we could go to 1000
• 2:04:54
  marriage seminars. They're never going to tell me
• 2:04:56
  untie or knots. That's what she needs.
• 2:04:58
  And it's in her particular life. It's the great, it's why we fell
• 2:05:02
  in love because I can untie or knots and she knows how to give
• 2:05:04
  me life. And that kind of relationship is
• 2:05:07
  hard to break. And that's why you're with a
• 2:05:10
  person that's very hard to separate that relationship.
• 2:05:13
  You can kidnap them. You can.
• 2:05:15
  But hey, that dude unties my knot.
• 2:05:16
  I can't really lose them, even though he's a jerk sometimes,
• 2:05:20
  you know? It's so beautiful and I'm so
• 2:05:22
  excited to see what God is doing through your ministry, Jamie,
• 2:05:26
  and I'm so grateful for you. And you're yes to who God says
• 2:05:32
  you are and what he's calling you to.
• 2:05:34
  How can people find you and your work?
• 2:05:38
  Well, they can come to our house.
• 2:05:39
  We live right in. I tell people all the time
• 2:05:43
  driving down our street like we do, we do have a doorbell and
• 2:05:47
  like, I don't know why people think you can't come to
• 2:05:49
  somebody's house. But anyway, if you're ever in
• 2:05:51
  Northeast. Tennessee, are you going to are
• 2:05:52
  you going to announce your address on the podcast for
• 2:05:55
  inviting every listener to dinner?
• 2:05:57
  I would I would do that except of who my wife is sitting right
• 2:06:00
  there. She would kill me if I did that.
• 2:06:02
  But, but I, I mean to me, I, that's sad.
• 2:06:05
  I, I have, you know, I forget who it is Bob golf or someone
• 2:06:09
  puts his phone number in his book, you know, kind of thing.
• 2:06:11
  But we need to do more of that. We really do need to like if
• 2:06:16
  we're ever speaking in a place and someone asked me for my
• 2:06:19
  phone or I'll 100% give it to you and they're like, when can
• 2:06:21
  we call you? And I'm like if my phone rings I
• 2:06:24
  answer it. Whenever.
• 2:06:26
  That's what it's for. I answer it like, what else do
• 2:06:28
  you do? Our websites
• 2:06:30
  identityexchange.com so you can find all of our stuff there AT
• 2:06:36
  and there's I'm sure there's other branches off of it, so.
• 2:06:40
  Jamie, thank you so much for joining the podcast.
• 2:06:42
  My pleasure says it's a pleasure to meet you.
• 2:06:45
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• 2:06:47
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• 2:06:52
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• 2:06:55
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