Latest / Atomic Rambo Podcast / A Grenade Nearly Killed Him. Grief Nearly Finished the Job. Then He Started Running. | Dave Coleman

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A Grenade Nearly Killed Him. Grief Nearly Finished the Job. Then He Started Running. | Dave Coleman · Atomic Rambo Podcast

• Dan: My guest today is someone known for turning civilians into commandos. But you have been being humbled on the ultra circuit recently. Today's guest is Dave. Nice to meet you, Dan. Yeah, Andrew. Thank you for me. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolute pleasure. There's one thing though that I want to do before we properly start. I... Sean Ryan podcast, you ever watch that? Yeah. Yeah, so... You know he always has a mate at Sig who they give gifts. I also have a mate at Sig. Fuck off! Yeah, so he's not the only one. ⁓ Sig have sent me stuff for you. So it's only a hat and a t-shirt, no pistol, and some stickers. look at that! I don't think you'd be allowed to give out pistols in England on podcast. No, no, but you know, maybe I'm working towards that in the future. That's cool as fuck. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's alright, man. It's pleasure. So let's start off. you just want to... We have spoken obviously before this and made a point of, and you didn't want to, just crack war dits the whole time. I'm on fucking the same page. Yeah. I want to talk about what's going on now, what's going on for you, ultras, all the challenges and shit you're doing. So do you just want to say what your job is though and what you do and what your business is? Yeah, that's cool. ⁓ My name is DC, Dave Coleman. am a former Royal Marine. I joined straight from school at 16 and then I left. I basically moved over to Australia. I was doing some bits and bobs there, just really pissing up to be honest. Came home and just before Covid I was like, you know, what can I do? I want to make a business. And I had the idea of making training programmes for people joining the Royal Marines and to help prepare them. So made a business called Civita Commando, Civilian 2 Commando, and then it's basically grown arms and legs and tentacles and all sorts and it's programmed camps, this, that. I don't even know what I do anymore to be honest. It's just a bit of everything. But yeah, it's been good mate. And it's nice to be able to help people recreate those moments that you had when you went and passed the PRMC or you went and passed this and you know, all those special times you get to see it in other people. It's nice, it's full circle. Yeah, and I know we'll get a bit more into mindset around that stuff and things and probably, I'm guessing from when you started in the Marines to now, lot's changed, hasn't it? A lot has changed mate, it makes me feel old. Really, really old. All the names have changed, the PRMC is not called that anymore, it's now the CPC. So it used to be the potential Royal Marines course, now it's the candidate preparation course. They now do a four week little block of training at the start of training, the recruit orientation phase. which like a four week induction to Limston basically. So much has changed, wars changing, bringing in drone training, everything like that. So things have moved on, which is good that we're moving on. It's hard to keep up with it all. IEDs in the sky. Doesn't look great, does it? As if they weren't bad enough anyway, now they fly at you. Yeah, I'm not into it at all. Okay, so... So you're running Civvy to Commando. I love it, by the way. Thank you. I love a business, and I'm terrible at this, but I love a business that says exactly what it does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Couldn't be any clearer, could it? No, that's true. Yeah, yeah. what's the... Only because I'm a little bit interested, because people ask me all the time, oh, I want to join the Marines. What's the general vibe like with lads joining at the moment? Yeah, so the sort of differences I noticed from when I was joining back then... is it's a lot less coming through the door. How I remembered it was there was a troop every two weeks of about 60-odd blokes. Now it's a troop every four weeks. for example, guy that I have been coaching recently has said his troop has gone down to Limston and they're so low on numbers, they're going to have to wait another four weeks for the next troop to come so they can amalgamate and make just to make enough blokes. Yeah, because there was like 20 or 30 lads in it. Really small numbers. And then if you think lads are getting injured and Hunter and then, yeah, Finn on the ground, isn't it? Seems low. Why do I think that is nowadays? I think social media massively. So when I was younger, I do sound fucking old now. I hope you can swear on this because it's happened a lot. You can do what you want, I think Facebook had just come out and no one knew what it was. Yes. Yeah, I had a BlackBerry. You know what mean? This is back then when we were on BBM, Blackberry Messenger. You remember that? You remember all that? Yeah, so you didn't have any comparison. one was comparing their lives. But now you go on Instagram and you see someone your age with an eight pack Louie the Tom bag, fucking Ferrari that's doing this and that. And you're like, why would I join the Marines and risk my life for 12 and a a month or blah, blah, blah? It's probably what people think. There's a lot of external influence. There's a lot of government, political things going on and everything like that. think people can get blinded, whereas I was young and wanted to do something. There was no distraction. I didn't even have a phone to play on at home. I just went out and ran and trained and played rugby and cycled and went for it. It was so less complicated back then. I'd agree, simplified. Yeah. Yeah, there's just so much going on now, isn't there? From all over the place. So your military career, we may as well quickly give a little bit of a buzz on it just so people are aware. So Royal Marines from what age? So I applied at 15 and 9 months. The youngest age you could pretty much do it. I joined up at 16, passed training at 17. So I was the youngest in my troop to pass. There was a couple of people my age, one of which you know, of our good mutuals, who ended up winning the King's badge in our troop. So I didn't even... I hate him for that. because I didn't even have the excuse of being young for being rubbish because he was young and he was the best. He was so good. But no, he was awesome. just for clarity, this guy is an absolute monster. Psychopath, like he was fizz and everything. He was just good at everything. It wasn't fair. I had a dit during training, right? I have no lies in saying I was kind of near the bottom for pretty much everything. and he was obviously first at everything and one day it was Pace to be a winner. Anyone that doesn't know, whoever comes first doesn't have to go again. Now, we've been doing sprints in this direction. He was near the front and I was near the back and they said, take cover and turn around. So now I was at the front and he was at the back and they were like, Pace to be a winner, go. And I thought, I'm first. I'm here. I can win. And I've gone and I've given it my all. And out of nowhere he caught me. I was like, please don't. I was like, please don't, I've given it, I've emptied my load on Yeah, you know the next round's are screwed. And he just sort of bimbo passed, no emotion. was like, and he won. I was second, just second, and that was made last for every single one then. I was like, never forgive you. Yeah. He was so fit. But yeah, I went through young. I was too young to go and do the driver training straight from basic training. You had to be 18. Where was that? Leckensfield. Yeah, in Ul. Yeah. No H in Ul, is that? So when I went straight to Four Five Commando, which was my first choice of unit, my corporal that had taken me through training, a guy called John Platt, really good guy, I look up to him so much, he'd done Four Five Commando and so would our other corporal John Riddle, another fucking legend. And I just wanted to go where they'd been. So I put in for it, they'd sold me the dream, I got there, our broth, and I was like, oh, what have I done? Sorry if you're from our broth, but it's true. And yeah, I got straight up there, X-Ray Company, went to Canada. Nice. On this like six week. It wasn't. It was lovely weather. And then it snowed like nothing you've ever seen. And then the sun came back out. So everything melted. It was sludge. It slop. It was mud for six weeks. You were covered. But it was good. I got back and they were asking for volunteers to do BCR for Herrick 12. Yep. Being a few more lads volunteered. and we went down to Portsmouth, BTR for anyone doesn't know, Battle Casualty Replacement. So they were taking casualties on Harry 12. They, you were, and they wanted people to backfill those spaces. So a few of us volunteered, went down to Portsmouth, did this two week sort of beat up, OPTAG, know, learning to confirm IEDs, used the violin, and then it was kind of like some got sent and some didn't. Yeah, luck of the draw kind of thing and that's how I met Ramsey. That's how you met him. Battle casualty repression. And probably a hard thing to do, right, because you don't know anyone, you're just going out there by yourself. May we were, we're super kinetic. He'd come into a troop that's lost like a corporal, know, lads, all sorts and to fill those shoes was pretty difficult. And that was for someone who was the top of the top. I think it takes real balls to go and do that. Yeah. I think it takes real balls to go and do that. Oh yeah, yeah. That's a hard ask for anyone. But I didn't get sent on that. basically Herrick 14 was coming up for 4.5. So we like trained for that, prepared for that. And then February or March 2011, got sent straight out on Herrick 14 to the Naddalli Green Zone, Helmand Province with 4.5, with Yankee Company. Flown from like Camp Bastion to our little PB. size of a football pitch, sandbags and all that. No Netflix or anything going on there. It was very, very fucking minimal. man rations. Ten man rations, mate. Boiling a bottle of juice and chicken. Oh God, it's horrendous, isn't it? Real soldiering. Proper, Ten litres of water a day per person. But you need to be drinking at least, what is it, twelve or something stupid in that heat. So you can't wash. Can't wash your clothes. Can't wash anything. It's just you're hungry. We were very lucky where we were just because we had the river. Which it got so kinetic that we weren't allowed to use a river and the little PBR was in eventually. But early on it was like you could actually get a doby. Yeah. You were there doing like tubing like in Lyle weren't you? You're like a little marine just sailing down river. Yeah that's exactly what it was like. Yeah was fine. was fine. Yeah and then what happened on your tour? You got f***ed. Fragged? Yeah, the first week of being in the PB, we went out on a company op. It was a bit of a show of force. We've taken over from the Irish, we want to go out and put all of our wagons out, all of our air, all of our people and this is ours. Show of force. Yes, exactly that. And we'd been out a long time. It was hot, no shit. Carrying the kit. Were you sweating? Just a little bit. All that the white comes through your kit, sweat. We've been out for ages, were stacked up next to this compound wall, the atmospherics were good, there was loads of kids, loads of everyone playing, and then there wasn't, everyone was gone. So you're like, fuck, something's gonna fucking happen here. Because they get told, don't they? They know. So we're like, right, let's fuck it off. And as we've gone to stand up to walk out, we've got this PB wall next to us here. Our point man said he saw someone put their head out and then sort of come back in. There's a bit of a come on, we get taught don't go after them. But he started following and we like, no, no, stop, stop, stop. And then boom, like that. And I thought, fuck, he's hitting IED. And I'm like, what's going on? I'm trying look for him and I'm like, where am I? And I'm on the floor, my trousers are like shredded blood. My sharpshooter's gone, I don't even know where it's gone. I'm like, what's going on? And everyone's running to me or like coming to me, Val and I'm like, fuck. And... Hey, why are you coming to me? Yeah, why are you coming to me? It's him. And he was just stood there like that. You all right, mate? was like, fucking hell. Fuck. A grenade had come over the wall. rolled by my feet. I didn't even know this had happened, but the medic behind me saw it and she said afterwards, she said like, it was on the hard standing track and then it just went into the mud. just rolled, yeah. If was on the hard track, we probably would have yeah. Yeah, you would have taken it. Vaporised, Do know what it was? I didn't stop to ask, but I think it was the HE, just like a frag, yeah. idea. But it hit the mud, bump, and I took frag in like my side here, my quad. piece stuck in my shin bone, a bit of my neck, a of my face, a bit of my arse, my arse caught it up. Story of my life. And basically had to get out of there. We can cut that bit can't we? I like it. We had to get out of there. And the river, well the stream, the little body, the medic was like, you've got to get over that and your leg can't go in it. Like, if your wounds go in that, because they all use it as a toilet, don't they? Yeah, that is their... So she's like, you need to run and jump and don't land on your bad leg. And I'm like, I'm hanging out, got this thing stuck out of my shin, I'm like, I can't help this fucking kit and I'm like... And like, a lad that got four GCSEs from Manchester, you don't land on your bad leg, and I'm like... Ran, jump, landed, bad leg. Fuck! The thing's moved a bit. I'm like... And I'm like... sort of gone down and fucking hell, I've got all the kit, the ECM, and I'm like, I need to get out of here. Got to the track, Sergeant Major in a quad bike with like the sort of bin attached to the back. He's like, fucking throw him in. And he's like, I haven't had time to valent this, so we're just going to hope for the best. I'll cover the front, you cover the rear and we're just going to send it. was like, like, wah! And I'm like, fucking The amount of guys that come off the back of those quads, like, casualities, it's ridiculous. I know it sounds shab, but... You know in the back of a quad, sat like that with your iPhone, I was like, this feels like a fucking PlayStation game or something. I'm what the fuck's going on here? It's mental. Got back to the PB, a blackhawk picked us up, took us back to the hospital. American hospital, got scanned through. And the doctor's like, hey man, I got some good news, I got some bad news. And he's like, the good news is, your legs are fine, it's just frag, we can take it out. The bad news is, we need to cut one of your testicles off. And I was like... Say again over. What? And he's like, show me the scan. And he goes, as you can see here, there's the testicle. There's frag. We're going to cut it out. Loads of options. He's like, we can put metal on him. We can do nothing. You can be a cyclops. You can be this. You can be that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm like, I'm 18. How about we just sort of fuck down? said, it feels fine to me. And he's like, yeah, yeah, you would say that, but you know, we're going to cut it off anyway. I'm like, no, right. Let me have a go. So I'm like, feels good, feels good, feels good. And I'm like, can we get a second? Opinion. Maybe a third, maybe a tenth. And it just seemed like every nurse that came in was just female, female, female. And I'm just getting more more retracted and shy as this goes on. like, ⁓ you know, no. And they all came to the same conclusion. There was nothing there. good. Nothing there that shouldn't have been there. I'd never worn them Kevlar undershorts. You them like frag pants? Yes. I'd never worn them ever. And on that day, sh- shit you not. We definitely didn't have them. My mate Sam was like, erm... You're taking the piss, not wearing them, mate. You should wear them. I was like, they're too hot. I've got these thin Nike ones, that's what I wear them. He went, mate, wear them. You're taking the piss. I was like, alright, sweet, I wear them, but I wear them for you. You know, was like a joke. And he went, were you scanned wearing them? I said, yeah. He went, right, take them off, let's rescan you. Rescanned me, the frag was in them, and it saved my nut. He was there with a scalpel going, let's go, boy. Let's get that testicle off. I didn't know they had them. That's good. We had them and then we had them thick nappies he was supposed to wear over the front, the really padded ones, but we only put them on the valen then. We said, everyone else should be all right. Do you know what mean? Yeah, he'll get in first. Yeah, we should be all right. Yeah, in the right world. So we saved my ball. Went back out to the PB after a month, they had five bits of surgery and that. And then three months after went on my R &R came back, something wasn't right. I was like my fucking lower back. Something was killing me. And I was on sanga at night. It was like a low down when you got to crouch. I was like this, was like, ah, ah. Yeah, whilst trying to be combat effective. Like crying in pain, crying in pain. I couldn't sleep. I didn't want to tell anyone. I was having a beef, you know. And I said to the medic, Kate Nesbit. She won the military cross, think I'm... Yeah, I know who you mean. Who, Finn? Said to her, not being weird, but can you look at my arse? was like, something don't feel right. I pulled my pants down and she went, oh! I was like, what? She was like, oh, yeah, you are getting out of here today. I was like, what? There was a hole all the way to my tailbone. You see my tailbone. I'd caught a flesh-eating disease. Ah, fucking hell. It had rotted holes all over me. And I couldn't see this one, but it stunk. And you could see the bone. You could see my tailbone down this hole. How does this shit get... and there were lumps were forming on me, all these lumps, I've got load of scars down here and they were like if it gets to your chest it'll rot hole in your lung and you'll fucking die. Yeah you need to be on some shit quick time. Flown back to the UK for this emergency, you need to see someone right now and from my PB to Bastion, from Bastion all the way to Bries, from Bries to Edinburgh, picked up at Edinburgh, driven to Arbroath Thursday and I was like, I don't know what I was expecting. red carpet, the Royal Marines bands pipe me in, know. My purple heart, but I don't know what I was expecting, but it wasn't what I was grep with. And what I was grep with was, ⁓ the MO, the medical officers on long weekenders, can you wait till Tuesday? Brilliant. And I was like, no. I've just bombed out. Yeah. I was in a PB 24 hours ago and he was like, sorry mate, Tuesday. So I just went straight home. went out to- With your flesh eating disease. Yeah. Went out to a nightclub in Manchester. That's when I started boozing bad. A lot of consequences came from that. Mental health plummeted. But I ended up going through the NHS to get this sorted. The thing is, none of them knew what the fuck it was. They thought I had an like an MRSA type thing? It was like a staph. STAPH kind of thing. Basically, if that's your skin layer, it rots a hole like that. So if you stitch it, it forms an air pocket. Yeah, it got you. So every day... And then rots out from there. So then that's why it goes, it just keeps going. It like an ulcer underneath. Like an ingrown hair on steroids kind of thing. know what mean? Jesus. Every day you had to go to the thing. Like laughing gas while someone packed it with their thumbs with fucking gauze and then put a thing over it and they're like, you alright? I'm like, yeah I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm like, a fucking dream. So I was just getting my arse thumbed. With two thumbs as well. Did you contract that in hospital, do you think? They think so. They said it's like a one in whatever stupid number chance of catching that in the UK. But in Afghanistan it's more common, but in old people. In the hospital I was in though, there was a Taliban bloke next to me and someone else there that were all armed. It could have been anything, do you know what mean? As in we had armed people watching them, sorry they weren't. So it could have been anything. But you just can't keep clean out there, can you? It's super difficult. Not to the standard we want to. no, no. To Pongo standard you're immaculate, but not to our standard, mate. Yeah, I couldn't have five showers a day, that's for sure. Hell no. Yeah, that was... And then, so then from there... From there, Was it a slow decline? It was a pretty rapid fucking decline, to be honest. I went out on that night out and it was a pound a drink. If anyone knows Manchester, I went to Factory. It's a student club. I a drink and I went straight to the bar, was like, what, 100 Jägerbombs? No. And this woman was like, what? I was like, I want 100 Jägerbombs. I've got a photo of it, they're all lined out. And this is how bad I was at talking to women or anything like that. These girls came over, oh my God, can we have one? I was like, no. No. Stand back, this is no place for women. You don't want to see this. These are my Jägers. Me and my mate were doing it. It wasn't even Jäger, it was like Messerschmitt. You know, some honking. It was just like that, solidly. All my mates were students. So I was bounced around Freshers thing to Freshers thing. I was meant to go back to camp. I just, I didn't. So I was off doing that for three or four months. Oh right, jeez. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, that's snaggy. And then I was just, I was out. So you were basically disabled? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't think, I still don't think anyone knew about me. No, no, no one rang me. It wasn't like I was blaggy. I was just, that was it. No, you just weren't on a, you weren't on a chit anywhere. No. And they're like. It was until the medals ceremony. And I'll be honest, I don't even know if I went to that. I can't remember. It is a blur, but I can't even remember. I think I didn't have to go back for it for some reason, or I didn't go to it. I think I was off for a long time. ⁓ Do you think some of that, because you probably would have been off for that time anyway, some of that was just lack of communication. Probably, mate, yeah. But you know, like, if someone gets injured in Afghan, they're... I've let this go in terms of this makes sense. But theoretically it doesn't make sense, right? But it has to happen. If someone gets injured, they have to go back to the UK quickly. Yes. Yeah, they have to. You don't have time to decompress in Cyprus. You No, you don't get any of that. Not that I would say decompression was any good. that's another You've been blown up. You don't have time to go to Ionappa, mate. We're getting you back to the UK for this emergency medical treatment. Well, I missed decompression, didn't get the medical treatment. Yeah. Could have probably gone and done the decompression. Really? Yeah, of course you could. Yeah. But I didn't. And then my mental health went down the pan. Really bad. And you're not around the guys talking and all the things, you're just on your own. I was just out with all my mates that were students pissing up and like, lads. So really, someone should have thought about it. And I was just... You know, like lads go out at nights out. yeah. Young lads that age go on nights out to try and pull girls, try and speak to girls. I was just going out to fight. Yeah, same. I was like excited about it. I was hope someone bumps into me tonight. we go. Yeah, pull the pin and roll me Any excuse. And it was bad, mate. It got really bad. It got really bad. I really, really hurt someone in town. Bad. And I was like, this is so out fucking control. And it was like, yeah, I was a really angry person. I just felt plugged into me. I felt so like, ready to, you know, ready to go. Yeah. And it was just not healthy. had no... release. Like you said, you've done no decompression whatsoever. No. Yeah. mean, yeah. My thoughts on decompression are that the decompression was us flipping tables in a couple of cans and like, woo, getting naked. heard similar. It's not decompression, but. No. But I had a similar thing when I got back. Because I was RMR, we got back and then we're thinned out. See you later, Yeah. Cheers. You're just gone. And then next minute I'm just in the pub on my own. Yeah, now what? And lads will come and see me. Obviously they're working during the week. They'll come and see me and be like, oh, how was it then? I'm like, yeah, yeah, all right. It's crazy. No idea what's happened. No idea. It's only when I've got the medal that everyone's like, what the fuck are you being up to? But there's no like... And then RMR lads are like, oh, how was the tour, Dan? Yeah, all right, yeah, no one really talks about it. And then it escalates, doesn't it? How I can compare that to is like, right, I this might sound a bit far out, but you go out there for six months, we didn't have phones, you haven't got a phone, you got WhatsApp, you haven't got Instagram, you've got nothing. So you are plugged into these people 24-7 a day. You know everything about them, you live together, you're walking around naked, everything, right? But people might not understand how that feels to have that taken away, because they've never done that. So let's say I took your phone away from you for six months. You'd be like, ⁓ where's my, that's what it feels like. Yeah. your connection's gone. Yeah, you're just out of the people that you live and breathe with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is nuts. It's mad, isn't it? Yeah. So go for him. It's like, at the time, was like having your family taken away, Yeah. I said that, like, you do 32 weeks of training to become this thing. And then when you leave, you do no training. So you're still this thing in the big wide world. Yeah. And it's similar with Afghan. You've done six months with these people. And then it's just like, all right, well, go, yeah. Yeah. How, no one's going to react well to that. Yeah. Agreed. So, when did you leave then? I left in 2016. After Afghan, I got diagnosed with severe anxiety, depression, PTSD and I tried to kill myself. So my mental health had been bad for years but I hadn't really told anyone. It had been going on and going on. I'd been trying therapy, anti-depressants, all this stuff. I wasn't in a great spot. But towards the end of my career, I got better. OK, you started coming out of it. But I was like, I'm done here. Yeah, you fredders with it. I was. During the time I was medically downgraded for being suicidal, I wasn't allowed to handle weapons. I got pinged for a job that I didn't want to do. I was stuck in it, it was miserable. Shit feeling. The only escape was going to play rugby for the core. Yeah, which... I loved. But then it's just like, you're a truck sweep soldier. I'm like, here we go, you can't win. So it's the only thing that was making me happy. And that's how you met my Stripey. Yes, correct. he helped me so much. He great guy. He was my Sergeant Major towards the end. In that part where I was happy and he was like, mate, you go and play rugby. Make sure you take me with you because we were together. was like, just you sort the hire car out, let's fucking go. And he was like, anything you want, go. We've got this trip coming up for migrant crisis for two months on ship. Do you want it? Go. Anything. Like how it should be. He's a good bloke. Really good bloke. Danny Smith, shout out. Yeah, good boy. Top boy, yeah. And then, yeah, 2016, I was like, I am done here. Like, nothing else was happening. I was like, do I stay, do I go? Well, if I'd have stayed for them 10 years, nothing happened. So I've not missed anything. Yeah, it was my point of leaving was, I... And also, my concern was when I get, like, hit the age I am now, and I've done a full career doing whatever I would have done, who would I have been? And that worried me. I was worried, I was already in a bit of a shit state off one tour. How would I have been rolling on doing different things and stuff like that? And you compare yourself, don't you? think, well, if I'm this bad after one, well, there's lads here who's done three tours and they're not that bad, so I must be really bad. So maybe I'm not as mentally strong as them, blah, blah. But you don't know what's going on in their heads. You have no idea. You just imagine and you're projecting this thing, this made up story, fantasy in your head of... what everyone's life's like. It's all bollocks. You've made it up yourself. I had Ted here the other week, Ted Schoen. Yeah, yeah, see your vocal guy. And he said, he was like, oh, I went and spoke to the boss and the boss was like, well, there's a psychiatric nurse here, so go and see her. And he was like, why is there a psychiatric nurse here? I thought it was just me. He didn't realise half the camp's hanging out with mental health issues. Yeah. And that's the reality. I got dragged by my two IC to the dock. found me I had this breakdown, was sobbing and he threw me in and I was like this is me getting thrown out, the doctor was talking and like I'm gonna get thrown out, is it, fucked. finally like he was trying to get me to admit how I felt and I finally just said it I was like that's it, this is how I feel and I was like I thought it was only me and he said during this conversation said three people have walked past that window who have the same thing I was like fuck off you're just saying that, said I swear to God and I would have I would have eyebrows to it, I was the only one. Because everyone else looked so strong. believe that? Strap me up to a heli-detector test, I'd pass. You know, I believed it. I was ready to go by that point. So I left and I'd been to Australia twice. I'd played rugby for the corps there and I went straight after Afghan by myself for a month and I loved it. I've always played rugby and it's a rugby country. So was like, right, I'm going to move there and that'll sort me out. So I needed a reason. Grass is always greener. Always greener, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your problems won't follow you? No. No. The most of them did get left at fucking Heathrow Terminal 3 to be fair, but a couple came along. But basically I needed a trade to get there. Something they were short of was telecoms engineers, so like fiber slices. did this course with Maurice Settlement, a good friend of mine, Adam Taylor from the Core Rugby team, his dad. had a company over in Wallasee doing it and he said, if you get this course, you can come in, we'll train you up and blah blah blah. I did that for two years. I got my CV up, applied for a job in Sydney, got it straight away. I went and worked for them for three months and then quickly realised I could do quite a lot more here. So I made my own business doing it and went around all over. I was doing 10 hour drives here, nine hour drives here, doing everything, sleeping in the van. all this crazy stuff, which was really, really cool. I loved it. And I was living in Bondi Beach and playing rugby and just cruising. Sounds terrible. It was fucking awesome. I would say the best country on earth. Hand on heart. Yeah, I still haven't been. I'm going to Oh, man. You would love it. Someone like you going in like cracking fizz. Yeah, I love surfing too. I love surfing. We went down to Newquay. with like four or five when I first passed training, all them giant foamy boards. I stood up once in a straight line, I was like, I can surf. Surfing's not easy. No! It's one of the hardest sports around, I think. I thought that was it. I thought, I'm now qualified. So I landed in Sydney, I went and rented this surfboard. Oh dear. The bloke was like, do you need lessons? I'm like, nah, I've it before mate. You know, like him from The Inbetweeners. He's gonna know. I got in, nearly drowned. Got thrown out, humbled. many guys in. sat like that watching these nine-year-old girls just rip it. Just ripping down the line. I was like, you have to have been doing this your whole life. was like, there's no fucking point, me learning now. Quick selfie with the board. Yeah, bang, I'm out. That's me, surfing tick. That's my surfing career over, you know, like. Yeah, surfing's an art, So hard. Like, so much harder than it looks. And I'm a gash swimmer. So it just wasn't. that, yeah. Yeah, it's all adding up. And if you've ever watched Bondi Rescue Mate, it was almost an episode from that. But maybe it was the life, it was so good. I went to this rugby club, Waverley Rugby Club. So that's that Bondi's rugby team. There was two teams down there. One that was like elite, the Eastern Suburbs and then Waverley that was like a good standard. You were good player, weren't you? I was alright. I wasn't going to get You were what I would call a really good And Waverley, the first team and the second team were probably still a... a decent standard, similar to like core rugby. But it was more about having fun and know, beers after and everything. I thought, I sent my rugby cover letter to each club, Eastern Southern steering reply, was like, fuck off mate. And then Waverley were like, oh my God, get down here, Royal Marine. We've got a- You're exactly what we want. Yeah, yeah, you're on the mate. We've got a former paratrooper here too and all that. I was like, excellent. And then- They had something like people from, was something crazy, like 15 different- amounts of countries. 15 different nationalities. Playing for this club, I couldn't believe it. They had seven teams. So the six fives, fours, threes, twos, ones, and the cults. And you would play every game back to back, and then the first team play. And it was so good, mate, like the atmosphere. Yeah, good community. Yeah, so good. Went down to my first session, and I got an intro to this para, a lad called- Scott Sarson and he was like, you're this fucking Marine, are ya? Scott, yeah. Yeah, you're this fucking Marine. And I was like, yeah, I am, yeah. goes, I'm this fucking Parra. I was like, oh, sorry to hear that, you fucking crap-hat. And blah, blah, blah. We were the nugget mates. you know, like, we just got called the two angry I've got exactly the same thing with my mate John, who did tree work with me for a long time. He's a great runner as well and he's Parra as well. And the first time we met, it was just like, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. It is that. He was the sort of bloke you like. He wouldn't eat fruit, wouldn't eat vegetables. If it wasn't a full English, he didn't want it. It was just like full English or beans. That was it. But like serious rugby player. Played for like GB in the military, for the army. Serious player. was like... And there's some pedigree in those teams too. So to get in... Hard as fuck. Yeah. you know, coming up to the end of my time in Australia. Yep. So, ⁓ and that leads us into ultras, doesn't it? Yeah, pretty much. your first run, why did you do your first run? Yeah, so ⁓ left Australia, moved home. ⁓ And ⁓ I'd been, ⁓ you we were saving towards house everything like ⁓ and ⁓ saved the money, bought my house, ⁓ first house, like moved in. ⁓ And I heard that Scott was having a bit of a bad time in ours and like we'd spoken before on a night having drinks about how we both suffered with mental health. But it was like a, I've told you, you tell me blah, blah, blah and all that. Between you type thing. And so I said, if you ever need someone call me, if I ever need someone call you. And I heard that. I was like, I need to reach out to him. But everyone was like, ah, you know, maybe just leave him to it. But I was like, okay. And then... A days later, I'd moved into my house. I'd taken a month's holiday from my job to do at my house. On the first morning of it, during COVID, so we're all, ⁓ you can't travel. I woke up like 17 missed calls and Scott had killed himself. it was horrendous, mate. Yeah, it was bad. And it ⁓ was really bad because he was such a big character. was like the first, he was like a first team player. The club, like... like sort of coach and everything like that. was just so popular. So everyone loved him. Yeah, he was the thing. Yeah. But everyone in Australia knew this. But I was now back in England after not long, trying to see the odd group of mates during Covid when you can't see anyone. Yeah. 11 hour time difference to speak to the people that knew him. And you can't travel over there to go and do anything. So I'm like isolated, feel pretty helpless, plunged into this rut. All my mental health that I'd blocked out for so long. Yeah, it was all straight back. It was back. And I was back at that level down here on the minus eight fucking underground level. And all that picked up again. I was into bad habits and all of that really, really quickly again every night of the week at home on my own. To just block out the feelings? I think so. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to know at the time, isn't it? You just want to have a... You know when people get on it and it's like, it started off like a party for me. I was a celebrator, a partier. But this was literally like I was sat home by myself playing sad music on loop. It was fucking sad. I was depressed, but I was like a moth to a flame to depression. I wanted to be. It was fucking so weird. Self-deprecating. You're just like on a cycle that repeats, you? I was pissed up the next day, driving to work, crying my eyes out. I'd sit there, cry my eyes out and just go, I can't do this, drive home. And that was it, on loop. And I was suicidal. I was writing a note. I couldn't do anything to help. I felt isolated and I was just fucked. And then one night I sat there boozing at home, scrolling through fucking Facebook. And I saw a group of Scots mates from England had made this page called Scots Ultra. And they were going to run 43 miles from his army barracks, Myrville barracks, where the Paras do their training. to his rugby club, old Cooperians around West Ham and basically run the match ball to the Scots Awesome Memorial game, pass it to the players and they would kick off. So I'm like, shite us. Sign me up. haven't ran in a long time. And I woke up the next day, I'm like, all these messages, mate, like, so glad you signed up. We could use a Royal Marine to help him. And you were like, oh fuck, what have I done? It was like 12 weeks away and I hadn't ran. I mean, I hadn't ran for years. Apart from playing rugby, probably haven't run for Yeah, just food and booze. was it. I'd just been boozing solid for like a month. So was like, what have I done? But I had like a really strong why. Like similar to before the 30 mile going for that green lid why, like nothing was going to... So I was like, right, I know this nine mile route, I'll crack that and see where I'm at. And I got six miles not to walk home for three miles. I was like, I'm fucked here. Big time. We've all been there. Yeah, it's bad, isn't it? Yeah. And that's the thoughts of like, can't do this, but I'm going to make myself be able to do this. I remember like one day I woke up at 3am to run a 20-miler before work, go to work, do my day's work and then come out and I was doing that. I ran four marathons in four weeks to prepare, but they weren't even... Which is good. weren't even events, it was just from my house. No, just doing the mileage. Just fucking going cuffing, you know what mean? I've never ran a marathon. I've never ran a race, ever, apart from cross country, when I was about 10, that came last in. So was like, this is a bit of a step up from that. And we were raising money for Rock To Recovery, raised over 20 grand, and it was the most they'd ever taken in one thing. That shows who Scott was. Everyone was fucking, I'll donate, I'll donate. His personality. Which says something about people with big personalities who you think have got everything squared and sorted. Even the people who you think, wow that guy's fucking rock solid, are quite in my experience as some of the guys that need to talk. Look at Tyson Fury, Robin Williams, know all them kinds. Shows you don't it? Big characters, the funniest guys, it can be anyone. I'd like trained for this and the day before it I'd done my, I reckon you're old school so you'll laugh at this, I'd done like a cryo chamber, a spa day, a fucking massage, I'd done everything. I'm old school yeah. Yeah, I'd done all this stuff and I was like I'm ready. ⁓ I'm not against it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm really not against it and you know I've got niggles and things that I want to sort out and I've been having a sauna. Yeah, lovely. Once a week. That's my heat trainer. Yeah, that's good. But yeah, yeah, I get what you mean. you go and do the race. Yeah. How is it? How's 43 miles when you... I mean, it sounds like you did do some good training, be fair. I did. I trained, I recovered well and I came out of there and there was a message saying it's off. ⁓ It was the last rugby game before Christmas and they didn't want Covid to spread because of it. right decision probably because probably yeah yeah get it. people's Christmases were like ruined so we had to postpone it but I said like I can't I can't do anymore I can't I'm done I'm ready to run it tomorrow yeah so I drove a route from my house in a 43 mile loop making notes and all of that and I set off the next morning at 5am ⁓ great self-supported and I said you know like don't contact me I want to block it out for the first marathon no one speak to me And I'm getting this message, like phone call, like five, I'm like, what, what, what? And I'm like, just leave me alone, leave me alone. And I finally answered it go, what? And we're tracking you, you've already gone the wrong way. This is a common theme for me doing ultras, by the way, you'll find out. first marathon felt good. I had podcast in, I was just away, I was sound, was like, this is sweet. So. Your training can feel so much worse than the actual day, I think, because you rested, you've done it. Yeah, well really the training should be the hardest bit. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, don't get me wrong. It never is. Well, was like, yeah, marathon done. I was like, cool, feel sweet. And then a few mates met me at little points to let's run a leg with you. So the headphones out and I was like almost hosting them and to say, all mate, how's things? It's hard, isn't it? And then I just- I'm much better on my own. Plummeted then. Yeah, people think that running with you- Sometimes it can aid you, don't get me wrong. But a lot of the time you need them to be quiet and just pace you and sort out nutrition, water, things like that. Actually chatting the whole time is just blowing you up. Takes it out of you, it? Yeah, I DNF'd 100 mile last year. I DNF'd 200 mile last year. I had bad back and I just shouldn't have been racing. But I did one with a lad. I didn't know he was there and he turned up at the beginning, we were just chatting the whole time and it fucking out. I got to 50 miles and I was like, I'm out here. I just needed to get in my own head and get going and get a good pace. The exact same. Impossible when someone's trying to chat to you the whole time. And they've got the best intentions at heart. Yeah, no, it's not his fault. Yeah, but yeah, that was good. I was coming towards the end. I was like, I was happy, you know, I was just like smiling, laughing away. You're doing something hard and good. Yeah, got to the end which finished at a local pub, like crossed the line, FaceTimed his dad and that and text people and all that, we raised the money, I was done. But in the back of my mind in terms of running ultra, I was like, I thought 43 miles was impossible back then because I'd never done anything like it. was like, I'll never, I don't think I'll be able to do this. But I did, and I didn't crawl over the line, I just jumped and left and went, alright done. You got it done. Yeah, I was like, I could do more now, I'm not going to, because I'm it's over. But I could. I sat there afterwards and I was like, know, like, what could I do then? How far could I go? And it was just there in the back of my mind. But I was like, I'm done for now, I'm over it, do know what mean? Did you feel a bit of that Royal Marine side of you come back? 100 % mate, and I said this to someone when I signed up to that challenge, I said when I left the Marines, I felt like I lost my Marine a bit. like, doing hard stuff. I just wanted to look massive. I just wanted to do beach fizz and I was happy. was happy. doesn't help you for... Absolutely not. was the worst prep ever. It was the worst prep ever. I was just a bodybuilder. I wanted to do a big run. And I lost it. I wasn't ever coming out of a gym going... ⁓ my God, that was hard. was just like, all right, shake and go home. I'm like, this isn't hard. You know? It's just normal fizz that you do. Yeah. And I wanted that again. I wanted that. I don't know if I can do this. I wanted that again. That uncertainty of whether you're going to finish, even though you're going You know you can finish a one hour weight session. No challenge. You just put the weight up a bit. No, all that is is just a habit. You're just forming a habit, which isn't a bad habit. Keeping fit and being strong, but. I wanted to scare myself again. And that's what led after that, suppose, straight after that, about a month after I was thinking about, I want the next challenge and that's how I made Civita Commando. was then. Brilliant. That's when I made it. So your company was basically formed out the back of that. And would you say that a lot of that was to do with dealing with the loss of him as well? I was probably, I'm a very addictive person. and ADHD and I'd probably had the biggest high of my life so far and I wanted the next thing. I was probably quickly looking at that but I wanted to keep busy. Yeah, I to keep busy. I had no intention of making a business but I was listening to all the secret, the this, the that, the that and it was like, you know, all these business podcasts and it was like, what do you know that no one else does? And I was like, fucking not a lot. But there's 60 million people in the UK and there's only 6,000 Marines. It's not a point, one. I was like... How can you monetise that? How can you do it? And was reading my training plan, that's what had made for me for this whole training, I was like, ⁓ my God, I'll just change that to how's your application going, where are you up to, blah, blah, blah. was like, ⁓ my God, I can do that. And that's where that came from. And then it grew. Yeah, yeah, it's fantastic. And I think about what you do. I've had a good think about it. I just went and did. It wasn't even a question of whether I would pass it. Yeah. It's interesting that now people are looking for some structure to pass it and things because they're worried about it and I didn't even think about it. Yeah. Things just change though, don't they? I didn't think about it. No, I'm sure you didn't. Not at all. I always knew I was going to pass, but I wasn't one of the best. But I just went there going, I've got to do this and then I'm a Marine and that's it. But I guarantee there was someone in there, fitter than me, who had the worries. Definitely. It's weird. Yeah, no, it's definitely a thing. I guess it just depends what background you come from. think so. think so. And look, if you want to be overly prepared, that's not a bad thing. But that's led me down a bit of a path of fundraising, raising money for charities, doing this stuff and all of this. And sort of like wanting to... Not wanting to just talk the talk, wanting to walk the walk too. And I'll be honest, when I started being a coach, I was like, right, I've got to look a certain way here. People have got to think, God, look at the shape of him. I want to be like him. And I went down that negative... thing for about a year of I've got to look the fucking part here. But it's not true. A coach isn't someone who looks a certain way. No. But I had to go through that to realise that. Yeah. You should lead by example, I believe. But that doesn't mean getting on Op Massive and look a certain way. But I didn't know that. Of course, yeah. Well, you're just learning. Yeah. And I'm glad that I went through that because I was like, this doesn't fucking mean anything. You know, this doesn't mean anything. This is actually toxic. to the point this is having a detriment on my happiness, my everything, I'm just too obsessive about this. And I was like, I want another challenge again. I want something fucking hard again. I've slipped back, I've done exactly the same, I've relapsed. I've gone exactly back into what I didn't like last time and then I'm here again. So I've just diverted back to my old habits, just old patterns. Exactly. So I was like, what can I do that's a challenge? So last year I thought, do know what I could do? I went to a... Again, I hadn't run for years and my mate said, do you want to come to this 5k run club? And I was like, they're measuring k's, that's crap. I was like, why do they do that? Why do do that now to make it sound further? I was like, you're joking. I was like, all right, let's fucking do it then. And I came, had a flat white, did this run, had a cake. And I was like, crap time. I was just like, oh, I might start running again, you know? And I was like, well, I did a 43 miler. I wonder if I could do a 50 miler. Could I do it? And even though it's 87 miles further, was like, I might not be able to do that. So I was like, all right, let's sign up for one and let's raise money for charity. So I signed up for the Manchester to Liverpool, 50 mile left from my home. I thought, yeah, yeah, great. And then that fucking crazy thing that I was like, why don't you do five ultras? I like, why don't you do, I was just signing up. You know when you've not spent money for ages and then you buy a t-shirt and then you walk out and buy a coat and trainers and this and that. I did that, but for ultras. So I signed up for that. I signed up for the M2L GV ultras. And then I was like, I like Scotland, I like mountains, I like lakes. Ultra-X Scotland, 110. if you still like them. 110k, thought like, yeah, Scotland's pretty, let's sign up for that one. I didn't even look at the elevation, didn't look at anything, just signed up. I was like, yeah, done. And then I was like, ⁓ there's a Cheshire, there's a Cheshire Ultra. The new one. Yeah. The Cheshire Ring. I'm in Cheshire, yeah, great. How far is it? 100 miles. I was like, ⁓ that's like a life bucket list one, that one. I said, let's sign up for that. And then I was looking for a hot one because I like hot fizz. And there was the Ultra-X Morocco in the Sahara Desert. Awesome. And that's like halfway in camp. I thought that'd be a fun one. And I like the sun. And I was like, I'm just thinking like holidays. I'm like, I like Moroccan food. I'm like, yeah, that one will do. And then I'll do a fifth one. And that's five, which I've now signed up to Ultra Four charity, Albania. I'm running that on behalf of Veterans for Veterans. Yeah, brilliant. So five. What is the, what's the Bulgaria race though, distance? Albania. It's hundred kilometres through the Albanian mountains. I actually have done no research on this. Okay, so you don't know what No, I've just said yeah. I mean, I think it's a half split one. Let's be honest, it doesn't really matter at this point because how many are you in now? You two in? Two in. Yeah. M2L got done. Yeah, so talk to me about M2L. Yeah, so. Because I know the female winner. Do ya? I would have seen her go... She is quick. because there's a part on it... She did a sub-three hour marathon two weeks before. Then went and did it. And yeah, she wasn't far off just dabbling that. That's serious, that. There's a part on it where you run down this canal and you bank left, go around Choughton Water Park and come back on yourself. So you see the first blazers come past you and I was like, no way they're on the same race as me. ⁓ I can't run that fast, ever. Ever. Ever and they're doing it now on a 50 mile. I was like, no way. It's impressive to see, isn't it? I was just like, fuck, there's levels here. And when, yeah, there are levels and it's a point I like to make with lots of people. Like, obviously I like to race. I do quite long stuff. And I normally come, I would say I'm like, I'm normally in the top third. I'm not normally first. I'm normally like, I don't know. Eight four, ten four, something like that. Not bad, but this level at the top, I'm getting spanked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's serious. It doesn't matter how good you think you are, there's always someone who's gonna absolutely dominate you. It's a real deal, innit? And when it comes to these races, there are some people that are so impressive. That is impressive, and the fact how they don't, and I mean no disrespect to him, but they don't look impressive. So as in like, I didn't go down to In your mind, yeah. Correct, I didn't go to the start line and go, I bet he's fucking. They're just in the normal clothes, not his special. you know. was like, motherfucker, he hasn't got the whole kit list and the whole list and all that. Why has he not got a six pack? I was like, oh my God, these people are serious. Real serious. And it's so good. So good to see. It humbles you. It really does. And I don't feel like it's an elitist environment in terms of, there's no like, I'm too good to talk to you. Everyone's just so sound. Ultra community, I found really good. People are amazing. I love talking to people. There's bits of races I don't want to talk. But the people you meet, I said this about Ironman as well. Ironman's very different, but there are just fucking amazing people doing it. You get people with bellies like that going past you and you're like, what? It's like bodden through shared hardship. Yeah, it's amazing. So M2L, how did it go? Yeah, I prepared well for this and... the night before I'm packing all the newbie. My vest must have been 10, 15 kilo, mate. Yeah, I have something to say to you about your vest and weight. Because you're recording a lot. Your recording gear is a lot of extra weight that I would not be happy carrying. That vest was so heavy. I thought you had to... Yeah, anyway. I you had to... I get it. Let's keep that. And then I got to start lying. And I was like, I need go for a shit. And obviously there's a massive queue because everyone else does. No toilet roll left, so you're the sandpaper thing. And I got to start like, errr, and it started. was like, ⁓ my God, fucking hell. It comes to chafe. Yeah, yeah, comes to chafe. Pitch black. But I've done most of the route. I've done the first half of it in prep. Yeah. The rest was... Yeah, you knew, you kind of know the area as well, don't you? Yeah. And it was mint mate. And it's all flat, it's all canal tracks. It's good, speedy one. Yeah. But I was very inexperienced. had all this stuff. Yeah, it's your first. I was self-sustainable. It's not your first, but it's the first race environment, ultra, which is very different to going out and just... My mind was, I don't need the checkpoints, anything like that. I'm going to carry everything for 50 miles and I've got everything and I don't need to stop and that's it. Royal Marine. Yeah, exactly that. I was like, I'll be self-sustainable. I'll carry everything. I'll carry spares. And I'm like, what are we doing? This is men's... I've got spare batteries. I've got spare nuts. I've spare Harry Bowers. ⁓ And I was like, ditch that, ditch that, ditch that. Yeah. I felt fine. I had ankle surgery years ago. It's completely fucked and it's healed wrong. I've got a postural deformity. Yeah, so you're running bit off. Not playing the Will Smollett violin, but over a long period. Yeah, it makes a difference all across your body, I guess. With a 15 kg lunch box on as well, it fucking starts to toss up. 15? Oh, fucking hell. And then about 23 mile point, my knee went... Now all the way through my prep for this, six month prep, whatever. It's been the other one. The other me, and I've done all this stuff on it, all my strength work, and then the other one went on the day. No troubles during my whole training, nothing. I was like, you're fucking joking, mate. No way. I'm not even at the marathon point yet. I'm not even halfway. Yeah, I watched you do it. Yeah, follow it. Yeah. I follow all your races. Thanks, man. It's what I'm interested in. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I can't fucking believe this. So I've gone painkillers. I've gone knee brace, knee strap, I've gone gel, I've gone everything. And I'm like, ah, I'm like, fuck, I'm like, no. And then within three miles of like walking, jogging, walking, I mean jogging 100 metres then pain. It was okay. So I was like, right, I know what's smart. I've lost her, I'm gonna send it now, I'm gonna really, and I went for it all in. And then about 20, I can't remember what it was, 28, 30 mile, no, further down the race actually. It fully blew, fully gone. Couldn't even jog one step, it was gone. Yeah, just walking. I had to walk the last 10 miles in. And all these people that had gone past, just coming past, coming past. And that's what you learn from ultras, start off slow. I rang a guy, he's still serving in the corps now. He's an RSM and he does a lot of ultras. I rang him when I was walking, was like, because he was giving me tips. I said, May, I'm walking it in now. And he was saying like, at that point. should have backed off, you know, and just been a bit smarter. Sustainability, but I was just inexperienced. But you know what? I'm sending it, bro. Now I've got to make up time. But we said in the car park there, didn't we, that like, just finishing that counts. I don't care about my average pace. I about that. For a lot of these races, even getting to the start line. Yeah. Like the last big one I did, just fucking starting that was an epic, let alone finishing it. like I said to you, up to 100k. I'm racing. After that, you're just going against yourself, finishing it. There's always issues happening. Things go wrong. It's all a learning experience. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing them for. I'm not surprised, but you haven't DNF'd yet, have you? No. No, like, it will happen. I don't know one guy that races, especially if you carry on doing them, I don't know whether you're going to or whatever after doing it. But if you do... Like I don't know one guy races properly who hasn't DNF'd. People DNF more than they finish races. Yeah. And that's the, that's to come. And my, yeah, you don't like it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's uncomfortable. My mind's going, not me. I'm not that guy. We're so stupid, aren't we? Same, same. And last year I DNF'd 200 milers in a row and you're like, fucking hell. And then I go and do 293 miles. Yeah, so he doesn't lose. He's my mate. Yeah, but this is my point. injury. But I learnt, yeah, I learnt. I was like, why did I do it? There wasn't a good enough why. I was just doing it because I wanted to do the miles. There was no fucking reason. Whereas for the last race I did, I had a good why. I made sure I was injury free before doing it and I wouldn't have done it if I had injuries and that's what you learn from doing ultras. It is, mate. And I think that's helped me with this one. I've been raising money for three charities that have all Yeah, what are the three charities? Rock To Recovery, who I've used their services for mental health on, and they're really good. The Royal Marines charity, and I got a bit of help from them when I got blown up, they sent out a little pack. And Scotty's Little Soldiers, who look after the children of bereaved soldiers. And I was in a really bad spot the other year, and I was like, I was bad again. And if I had have done whatever, when my little boy was just born, he'd probably be using their services. Yeah, so he's kind of like, we're on our own time. And I know guys that died on my tour who have Amazing charity that. It's a really nice charity that. Yeah. I've been raising money for them, so that's helped keeping me going. So I finished that All 4 X. Finished M2L. Yeah, the next one. Yeah, the next one. All 4 X Scotland. So my plan was, and I know this is not a plan, but I've not been on a mountain at all in like a year. I went to Penifan for this little charity thing and walked up... Up and down it, right? I ran it on Saturday. Nice. Nice. Friday. Nice route. And I thought, right, between MSUL and Scotland, all I'm going to do is buy some poles, learn to use them, and just go up and down hills, because it's 3,500 meters. I didn't even know there was an elevation when I signed up. Then I thought, oh my god, it's 3,500 feet. And my mate went, it's meters, mate. No, no, no. I was like, oh my god, fuck yeah. That's 3,500 Snowdon's. Over. nearly three marathons. So I was like, fuck, I need to do this, but my knee, I didn't run again from end to end until Scotland. Didn't do one run, not one. What was the time this? A month. A month, yeah. mean, like I've said to you, I know you, I said to you, Dave, the trainings are relevant now. You're not going to improve, anything. You're better off being in better nick because of the pace you're going. And you were right. Yeah. Drove up to Scotland, me and my mate Nathan. a former para road trip, swam in a lot loaming, up, the sun was out, it was sick, mate. Yeah, super nice. It looked amazing. Oh, mate. You're along the locks and... We went the long way through Glencoe, commandeer That's an amazing route, isn't it? So good, man. And the night before, I've got an ingrown toenail, I've had it in my whole life, but it was infected, it was bad, it was pussing. I've been doing everything, savel on, boiling water, all of it to try and sort it. And the night before, Nathan went to bed, I was watching Family Guy and I was like, I need to sort this out now, like right now. So I've gone kitchen knife, needle, I'm gonna get this out. And I've made it fucking 10 times worse. I shattered it, splinted this nail. So I had shards of ingrown nail, shards like spikes in my toe, in my big toe the night before. I was like, well, Is that your ADHD? I think so, mate, yeah. A lot of it. Like, what's the best thing you can do before a race? How can I hurt myself more? Start fucking with my feet. I've rested for a month, but the night before, what I'm going to do is... Fuck. Unreal. And, every downhill, was like glass. Yeah, smash, smash, smash, yeah. And then about the... I think again... No, it might have earlier. It might have been around the 15, 16 mile point. My knee went about 60 miles to go. I was like, this is fucking bad, yeah. But they had physio and strapping at the aid stations and I sort of got there like this I was like my knee and whatever she did she did this like strapping she went round and then twisted the tape yeah twisted the tape good in it patella tendon yeah that's my problem yeah and she put it on I was like I feel nothing like yeah what what's this about I'm a pretty dead inside her anyway but I now really feel nothing my toe feels something but I feel nothing and it was sweet it's going quite well yep I was seeing Nathan at all of the checkpoints. He came to support me and like, I went for that, amazing. And then around the time, so it's a two stage race normally at the halfway point. Some people do it in one go, don't they? Very small amount. 110k. 110k. It was actually a further because I got lost. Yeah. You basically run through the finish line. and you see everyone camping and celebrating and then I was like, I'm to have a small physio and then you've got to go back out and it had been vest weather till then, it had been great and then I went and it got dark and then the clouds came and it fucking hosed it down and I was like, oh my God and you had gone from seeing people talking, running with people, I didn't see anyone else at the whole time, that was it, you were just by yourself, got dark, rain came in, I was like, oh this is bad, this is pretty, it just took a bump. You know that part? no, I fully understand. Going up through these forests, it was dark and everything like that. And I just remember, was like, I'm starting to feel sorry for myself now. know, was just rubbish in it. was like, you know, trying to like keep tops up and just feeling a bit sorry for myself. Remember my Yeah, I'm why am I doing this? And I got to, I was in the hill and the rain was coming in and Nathan was supporting me with Kit along the way. I obviously I had all my kit on me at all times. Obviously. But Nathan was supporting me with kit along the way. And I really needed this specific bit of kit quickly because it was getting dark. And I was like, mate, where are you? I was like, I can't get parked. I'll see you at checkpoint 11. I was like, mate, no go. I was like, I haven't got my nightmares. No, I did and I had my spare. For whatever it was I needed, didn't have. Yeah, yeah. You know. And I was like, mate, no go, find a way. I was like, you need to meet me in the mountain. So he came up and met me, fish and chips and my thing that I'd... My carrots to see in the dark. So it probably a movie, mate. And like, experience again. Yeah. And I was like, fucking hell. And I was like, we were laughing, proper laughing. I like, what the fuck have we done here? And the rain was so bad, You couldn't even see the sideways. It was just grey. It was fucked. Like, oh, you'll get picturesque views of just grey, nothing. I was like, brilliant. And then from there, I started just, oh, I was doing my plan. was eating, but I hadn't, I should have had a real meal. Now I had the fish and chips from him, but I shouldn't had more. I struggled to eat that and I needed more. And at the next checkpoint, I came in and saw him and he went, you were nonverbal, mate. He said, everyone was like, you all right? was like, yeah. this thing round me trying to eat this pot noodle. The support staff bloke. And fair play, he's like a volunteer and he's there, know, really nice guy. But he was like, are you making pot noodles? And I was like, ⁓ god. He was like the guy I've train spotted and I just couldn't. was like, all right. I was like, ⁓ I can't talk here. Calm down. I was like, please, I'm dying. And I remember hobbling off from there being like shuffle, shuffle. And I was like, I can't have far left. can't. About 20 miles. I was like, this is fucking bad, this. I had my headphones in and I was listening to ⁓ one of the Sean Ryan shows and went up into this forest and it was just hoes in it down there. And I was going a bit delirious now. was like, I've explained this people. You know when you get in petrol and you know when you can see the hose and you can see the haze coming off it. I could see that on the floor. Yeah, just coming off. Yeah, you were starting to trip. I was like... Can I feel it? Can I touch it? I was like, I can't touch it. I was trying to feel through it. I was like, I'm fucked here. I love that stage. I'm all about it. I was listening to the Sean Ryan show and I could hear someone. I was like, pause it. Is it the podcaster? it out there? And I was trying to like, are there bears in Scotland? You like this? Yeah, was like, someone's going to get me. I thought it was going be like a giant spider from Harry Potter. was just like, ⁓ all of it. I had my polls out by this point and I was going like, it went from, you know... and I was really doing well on the hills to pole, pole. Yeah, just left foot, right foot. Lean on my poles, check how far I've gone. Yeah, every hundred metres. very far. And I was going like this a bit. And then I realised, because you can see bit of orange tape every hundred metres. Oh, is that how they, like, mind tape? And I realised I hadn't seen more for about an hour. I was like, oh fuck. And I was like... Were you nabbing off your, off a watch or...? And I was just... Mind tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Inexperience. No cuff too tough. So I was just sort of going for it and I was like, what the fuck? I was like, this is, I can't see. And I was like, it must be around the corner. I went further and I was like, so convinced. I wouldn't have gone the wrong way. I'm going to go a bit further. And I was like, I have gone the wrong way, yeah. Big time. So I had to go. How can I cheat? You know, how can I cheat and make this work? I'm like checking the map. I've got it loaded up, yeah, on the GPX. I'm like, right, I'm here. Wow, I've come off. How can I get there? There must be like a hill like that. I'm like, there's got to be a road. There's got to be a tunnel. There's got to be some... And you know when you realise I can't outsmart on this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've just got The route's the route for a reason. I've just got to And you've just come off, yeah. So I turned round How many miles? I think in total it was about three or four miles. That's there and back. It's painful when you're hanging out. Bad. And I finally got my contract. Were you angry with yourself? I did it on the spine. I was angry and then I just laughed. When I accepted it, I laughed. I was like, you dickhead. I didn't go wrong at all. was just there were two options. And I took this one option and the snow and the ice, was just like growth everywhere. was trying to drag my polk through and everything. In the end, ended up about, I only went about a mile when I turned around and came back and I was like, were you? You know that's the better route. You should be better at than this. Like really kicking my arse. And then afterwards I was like, f***ing hell Dan. You're 200 odd miles in and you're giving yourself shit for going down, for being on route and my NAV was spot on. But I'm still annoyed with myself. When you've accepted it, can almost be one of the lads watching you going, you dickhead. You know what I mean? can be like... That's it, yeah. I can hear the missus going, why the fuck did you go down there? Yeah, you're like, I'm stupid. And you're like, you're right, I am stupid. Yeah, yeah, I am. That's why I'm here. And I got up to the top of this hill in this forest and I felt myself, I was spinning and I was like panicking like, I'm going to faint, I'm going to faint, I'm going to faint, I'm going to faint. But I was, no, sorry, this was when I was off track. I was off track and I was like... If I go down here, the rain's about like, I could go down here if I faint and I'm off course. So I'm thinking no one's going to see me. You've got a tracker though, right? Yeah, but like, are you going to know? Yeah, it'd be a long time. Like it needs to be now. And I'm like, I was holding it going, if I faint, press it. Like, you know, I'm thinking like, yeah, as you go down. Yeah. I thought there was bears. I thought it was everything at this point. So I'm like, right, I need to eat everything. I need to get energy. And I couldn't get my hand to do it. I was like, Come on, you fucking bitch. I was like, come on. I've got everything, eaten everything that I could, drank the water, and I'm leaning on my poles, I'm spinning. I was holding it going, if you faint, press it. And I sort of came back and then managed to get back in and I was like, thank God. It's amazing what just throwing a load of food down a drink will do. It's crazy, it? But my one bad thing I've never had until this Ultra, I'd never had asshole chaffage before. fuck, I had the shit in it. trying to work out the balance. was like... Sounds crazy. Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's... Why was she even practising? But I see now. I got to the A station and it was so bad. I said to this woman, I said like, do you have, you know, one of women working, I said, do you have any Vaseline at all? And she was like, I've got like a stick version. I went, you do not want me to put that on my arsehole. Trust me, you don't. She was like, ⁓ it's for that. She was like, no, sorry. So... At one point, I put my poles away. It was that bad, it bleeding. I was running with my fingers up my arse, holding my arse cheeks apart, running like this, like that, to hold my arse cheeks apart. And I was like, if anyone comes behind me now, they're going to see the flag of Japan. You know, like this red circle. Me running like that, like, ⁓ like it was so bad. This is, it's not the only reason I wanted you on, Dave, but I wanted... I wanted your level of realism when it comes to ultras because I don't think people hear it enough and I think it's fantastic. You're so true, you're just like, this is what happens, this is how bad it is. You can't play at this. For me, sat in my computer room that day, sat up to these, I was like, yeah, it looks cool, looks cool, looks cool. I can crack that, I can crack anything. I fucking got this. Yeah, fucking boot net. That one. So Manchester, I Paul, I was Fredders because... I ran the last 10 miles and I was like, sorry, I walked the last 10 miles and was like, I don't feel like I've accomplished anything, I just feel pissed off really. This was 11 out of 10, white hot pain, Davy Jones' locker, like fucking hell. Yeah, you've done something, you know you've been through something. Yeah, and they said to me at the final checkpoint, went, oh, lucky you, you're gonna get to see the sunrise over Loch Ness. I went, no I'm not, because a fucking track GPT said I'm gonna finish at one, they're like. You ain't finished it in one go. And like the last bit I was like, right I'm going to send it for the last bit. I'm going to send it. And I got halfway and then by the end I was just walking like, uh, uh. And then the final bit, it felt like I wasn't getting any closer. I got lost three times in the final leg. I was so like, it's got to be, it's got to close. And the final part, you come out of this forest down this hill. Cross the road into the farmer's field and you run straight down the farmer's field, all flagged, all marked through the tunnel. Whereas I'd come out, I got to the road, turned down the road and started going that way and someone's like, you've gone the wrong way, you've gone the wrong way. And I look back, 200 metres back to where it was, I was like, I don't care, fucking disqualify me. I was like, I'm fucking going this way. I don't care, I don't care. And I'm can't, can't. So I fucking climbed over the farmer's gate, beeline through the field. picked up the course and there was like a guy that had been hunting me down for ages and I kept going the wrong way and he was getting closer so was like, you ain't fucking crossing this line before me. I was there's no chance. I was like, ah, ah, trying to get to the finish and crossed, mate. And I broke down fucking crying. At the end I was like, fuck it, everything, fair play to you, came out of me, Nathan was there waiting for me, he's like clapping, he had my lid and everything and my flag and... They're like, right mate, come over here, we're gonna get some pictures. I went, Nathan, fire the car up, we're fucking going, mate. I was like, we're done, we're done. Do you not wanna? was like, no, I'm mate, I'm done. no, Communication has gone past. Half six in the morning. I was gonna say, how long were you out for? Because I remember, I watched you and I was tracking and I remember being like, hoo. Yeah, this has got slow. Hoo, hoo, this is a big outing. 23 and a half hours. Oh yeah, 23 and half hours, yeah. That's a day out. It's bad. It's really bad. ⁓ it's great. But it's great. It shows that you can push through. It's good. It's good. We got... This is the worst part. I thought we'd be done by midnight. It's half six in the morning. So we get back to the Airbnb at seven. We've got to be out by ten. So I've got in bed at seven, vibrated for like an hour, finally slept. And then for like an hour later Nathan's like, mate, we've got to pack. We've got to go. And I'm like... Then it's like what, an hour drive home? I was like, can we just go and get some travel sickness tablets? I was like, can't, I'm not going be to do this mate. And we went three different places trying to get these quells, because I get so bad. And I just felt awful. Finally Adam, and bless him, he drove all way back. He said, what was your plan if I didn't come? I was like, don't know, drive home. He was like, mate, like what? It is the boot neck in you. Yeah, you just think It's just like, ⁓ I'll just cuff it. I'll just drive on. I'll find a way through. And you did. you know, luck happens for a reason, doesn't it? I finished that and I thought, I can do anything. If I can do that, can do anything. Fair play. ⁓ I'm hoping that's as bad as it gets. Well, so we'll talk about the 100 mile, because a lot of people talk, you know, a lot of people want to do 100 mile, don't they? It's like, it seems to be like a bucket list. Like a bucket list tick. that people want to do. So how's the prep going for that? I've not ran in six weeks. Because of the operation? Yeah, I had surgery on the toe straight after, they pulled out all the ingrown stuff, all of that. That was horrific. Which I do think will be the reason that you do alright. Yeah. Solving that now, getting it solved. And the rest. Really? Yeah. So what do you think about that? I think that people over train, they do too many miles and don't realise what it's going to take on the legs to do 100. I think you are better off in the timeframes you've got having rest over notional phys that's going to make no difference to your 100 mile performance. Me two months later, sat there, Dunn said rest. Yeah, Dunn said rest. And I, yeah, I mean, it's a good one, isn't it? Yeah. I know what I need to do more of. Yeah. A bit more durability around the, around the knees. One of the coaches we have working, Earth Safety Commando George, he's building this whole knee plan for me. Knee and ankle, everything to try and bomb proof them bits because it keeps on going. A bit more leg strength, a bit more calfs. I'm going to do more back to back runs. That's what I do. Yeah. So I do back to back. So it'd be like marathon, marathon, marathon, marathon. I just, all I focus on is getting the legs as strong as possible, even when they're tired. That's what I need. That's it. So for the Arctic spine. I was doing big days out with weight just over and over and over again and that came through. There was no point me doing my 13 mile run at five and a half minute K pace or five minute, it doesn't help you. I train nutrition, so the things that are actually gonna... Practice what you're gonna ...fuck you up. Nutrition, so getting enough sodium in is a big thing for me. Working out for me for races that are over 200 miles you're eating solid food working out what that's gonna be just things like that The hundred miler for me is something that sounds like it's now when I fought before the 43 that sounds impossible. That's how this feels to me now, but after Scotland it feels possible. So I'm getting closer to like believe in it, do you know what mean? I mean, I definitely think you've got it. What do you think Scott would think about it? He hates running. He'd be like, what are you doing that for? He'd be like, what the fuck are you doing that for? You're an idiot. He'd be like, mate, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, but he'd be proud, know, like, yeah. one thing, because I use that, like I suffered with grief for a long time. And now I use that as part of my... That's like part of my makeup essentially and when I'm doing really hard things like in the locker like you were in Scotland. And like I was many times over and over, I use that as part of my, you know, why am I here? This is why I'm here. They didn't get to do it. I can. Like it's kind of part of that. So do you find a bit of that and how does that link to your like anxiety, depression, PTSD? Cheerfulness in the face of adversity at the core. So people go like, ah. I really like, people are like, what are you thinking during them bad times? And I'm just making myself laugh. I'm just being like, you're a fucking idiot, what are doing here? This is fucking ridiculous. was like, we were at like the... What are we here? What are we doing here? Who's weak? Guys, who's that? I was ringing people during it, going, mate, this is fucking wild. I'm like, what the fuck's going on here? just having a chat and just having a laugh. I think when I started flapping in that moment where I thought I was going to faint, that's why you're no good. You know, like, you need to be like, on, you You need some composure. You know, good. You've got to get past that. Yeah. So I'm glad, I've not experienced that, that panic, probably since basic training. Yeah. Probably haven't, seriously. So I was like, oh, I like that again. Yeah, I'm back here again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I'm so much stronger now. That's what I got out of the Arctic spine, because it was so long and so hard. Giggity. Giggity, giggity. Giggity, giggity. that you went through all those things over and over and over again. So like the tripping balls, the I'm a failure, like there was one section that I went for one kilometre and it took three hours and I was breaking trail up to my knees. Like, how you did that that is insane. it was minus 30 odd and I'm just like, ugh, ugh. ⁓ Viking. Yeah, and just like, don't fucking give up. And I'm like, right, I'm gonna ring that. I'm gonna try and message the missus, I'm gonna press the button, and I was like, no man. Wilson! Yeah, yeah. Like you've come all the way to Northern Sweden, like just fucking keep going. And you go through all these cycles, don't you? It's amazing, isn't it? That's what I yeah, it is amazing. I think that's why everyone's so nice there, because they know you're going through something amazing together. Horrible, but amazing. Yeah, Everyone's just happy to be going through it. Yeah. Yeah. The 100 miler that I'm going to do, the Cheshire Ring, so part of it that was special is I think the 92 to 98 mile point or something like that, I sum it, don't quote me, don't know the exact fucking numbers. If you do, you're sad. But it's something like that, is the strip of canal that I started running on when I was 13. That's where I prepared for the Marines. That bit of canal is where I ran from my dad's house and ran up and down that. That's cool. All the way. My mile and a half practices were there. And that's going to be the end, that's like the coming home. Yeah, that'd be so nice. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a really good 100 miler to do. for your first one is pretty flat. ⁓ conditions are gonna, what trainers are you running in? So I have, I was using Hawkers for the canal one last time. I used the, I think I used my trail ones in Scotland. don't know if I, depends what the weather's saying. Drop bag. Yeah. Drop bag. another set. Have both. Yeah, because it only takes a bit of rain to change that course along the canal. It can go from super solid and nice in your hawkers or whatever you're running in to really slick and pretty shitty. So I would just have the option. Yeah, bring options. Bring me a few options. Bring me a options. ⁓ I'm going to get some food dropped off, think a big dominoes at some point or something like that would go down a tree. And what's the goal for it? Just get it done. Get it done, I don't care. Yeah, good. Yeah. And I think that's the right answer because so many people DNF because they're hunting for 24 hours or they're, we need to do this time. They get to halfway and they're like, fucking hell, this is savage. And I was sat in that computer room, standing up for him. went, I'm going to do a hundred mile run. 24 hours. That's the worst thing you can do. I just did a 74 in 23. It's obviously not going to happen. But now I feel better. Yeah, the pressure's off and now all you need to do is just go there and do it and enjoy it. I've got a walk, the last marathon, Whatever. great. Whatever. But it doesn't matter because there'll be people... are people... Fuck it out. The people who are just ahead of the cut-offs are fucking unreal. They've got that pressure of the cut-off and they're just ahead of it. and they're going for days and days and I've done a race, come home and then the next day, like looked at the tracker and people are still like, and you're like, fuck, like it's horrendous. I didn't have any more time left, I'm out of this. I think just getting it done at all costs. You're like a car, aren't you? As long as your tires don't burst and you don't run out of fuel. So as long as you don't get injured and you don't starve, know, just keep putting it in, keep strapping up. fingers crossed. can keep going can't you? I think you can keep going forever. know like as long as you're fueled up, as long you don't get injured you can keep going. I said at the end of the spine I could have done that for a month. Yeah how nuts is that? Yeah. To say that how nuts is that? Like but it's true I fully believe it. Yeah no I definitely could if I once but it takes my body a couple of days once the engines purring I'm all right and then it's just keep stuff in and I still lost 11 kilos. It's so cool though, isn't it? stuff, this is stuff that people never fucking fathom or believe in doing. I wouldn't have even fathomed that possible, like, you know, years ago. And then, like, but you know what's annoying is after that 43, I always knew there was more there and I was itching to find out, but just too scared. No, not too scared. Too, can't be bothered putting myself through all of it. All it is is prep. If you do the prep and build up, you're not special. I think ultras are really good at making people look really special. But you're just someone who's done your homework a lot. Admin job. Basically. Yeah. you've just done... Good admin goes a long way. I never did homework. Same. Same. And it's like... But now it's just, as long as you've done the prep, you will do it. Yeah. And it's just bothering yourself for nine months, six months, whatever, to do all that work and then sign up and just go and have a go. But I think it's so inclusive. think anyone... There's people that just walk, then. Definitely. More people should go and have a go. Yeah, it's growing. if someone is definitely growing. So if someone who suffers with their mental health and wants to do one, but they're like, I don't run. What would you say to someone like I'd say go and get, just, you know, go and what the outdoors and physical exercise sorts my mental health every time. Now granted it's not a permanent cure, but it helps. It does help. During the time having a goal to aim towards helps. Even if you said, I'm going to sign up for this one, which has a massive cut of time so you can walk it. and just get out walking down the canal tracks. You're out every day pretty much walking to train for it. So that's good for you. And then you've got this real goal to aim towards. And when you finish, it's a real sense of achievement around good people. you finish it and go, what's the next one? And it's just, you've replaced whatever you were doing that maybe got you with something better. And what would you, with regards to your training, so for the... calling and recruits for the civvies, what has doing ultras changed in your coaching? Or has anything changed? That's good. I think... I've always said this, I probably believe it more now is you are capable of far more than you may fucking realize. And the scariest bit, the hardest bit is putting yourself at the start line. That was the worst bit. It's so scary because you're like, I can't do this. can't, what if I fail? What if I this? Fuck it. know, people love a trier. Just try and like go and try something that you're too scared to do. Do the homework, do the prep, do everything. You'll be able to do it with, you'll be able to do anything with the right prep. Granted if you're like, can only do 5k, signing up to an ultra seems too much. Yeah, you're not ready for it right now. But if you sign up for one in a year and use that, I got from 5k to a 50 miler in about six months. Yeah, like, which is mad. And I'm not special, no way, and that's not like, fucking look at me, but I mean, it is doable if you do the work. Yeah, doable. And you don't come from a running background. I'm a lump. I'm not a runner, like. Yeah. Because people have said that to me, like how the hell, because I started running about three years ago, and from 5k to 200, 300, nearly 300 miles in three years. But I do come from a pretty solid running background, but fucking years ago. But the muscle memory definitely can kick in. you see what I mean? If I go the first five, I went and did a part run. Same, I went and did 5k, I did 19 minutes. That's lightning. I did not do that. But that's what I mean. And I wasn't fit and okay, but I can still suffer and I know how to run and I know how to push and I know what it feels like. So there was that. But from someone like you, I think it's really impressive because you've, like you said, five months. five, six months, you've gone from 5k to, that's great. Yeah. I think it's more mind. For me personally, I'm not, you wouldn't look at him and go runner. I weighed in before the M2L at 94 kilo. You know, like I was heavy and then had a 50 and Yeah, you 10 kilos more than me. Yeah. And then I had the best one that was probably 10 15 more. Yeah, you're carrying a house. Yeah, I was heavy, you know, but like, yeah, I think you can do it if you sit your mind to it. I think not drinking helps me as well. Yeah. So my next question, which is leading us into the end, shall we say. What's one thing you've changed in your life that's had the biggest impact? Yeah, yeah, that. So not drinking? I went fully tea total everything 21 months ago now. Amazing. And I, so I started smoking when I was 11. I started getting on it down the parks around that age, everything like that. And it's been over 20 years of my life. It's more, it's two thirds of my life have been on it. And then through rugby, through the Marines, on it hard. You you're not messing about. No, yeah, same for me. University, Royal Marines. I was pissing up when I was young as well. And for me, exactly the same. As soon as I quit alcohol, I seemed to achieve all the things I wanted to do. It's 100 % weird, isn't it? And what happened was like, because I'd been sober for three months, I was like, right, I should have all this stuff that I should be... And trying to, like, come to me, come to me. And then the second that I let it go, was like, let go of, stop trying to force things, let go of everything. Get well, get sober first. And when I became well, all these things and more came into my life without me trying to bring them in. Yeah, you're not forcing it. It comes if you're sober. Yes. I think it's an important, the important point that I'm always trying to talk to people about is just quit and drink. It doesn't just magically make your life immediately better. It's that you still have problems and things. You just deal with the problem slightly differently. It's not quite as stressful. The edge is taking off. Do know what mean? But then when you're training and doing what you're doing now, all of sudden, the recovery is a little bit better. There's not the big knock-on effect, you know, I don't know how old you are now. 34. 34 hangovers. They start to get a little bit longer. chance, I would, I'd go out. like midday on a Saturday until midday Sunday, I would get on it for 24 hours. Hard. Real fucking hard. I was ending up in hospital. All of it, mate. It bad. like, just couldn't stop once I'd started, right? And then I never would have thought I was that sort of person who would ever end up sober. Because my identity was around being the person who did the most. Yeah, the Marines, the rugby, drinking and everything. bang, bang. Getting on it hard, going to parties, doing all that. And to stop that... to work hard at fucking stopping that as well. I do a lot on that. ⁓ Everything in my life and more has come into it. In that ultra, in that Scotland one, when the sun came up, right, and the birds were cheaping, 20 odd hours in, I was like, what I've just achieved now is like, it's the same time and everything equivalent of what a session used to be for me. I'm 20 odd hours in, the sun's coming up, the birds are cheaping. and I've achieved nothing and spent hundreds of pounds and fucking I feel disgusted. I want to get in bed for five days. Now I've achieved something. Yeah, I want to get in bed for five days, but I've achieved the biggest thing of my whole life. I've just swapped it and it's so much better. And an off day for me used to be, I'd been on the sash for 24 hours. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm row off. Thursday, I'm just getting back to it. Friday, let's go again. Because I've fucking forgot the pain. And now an off day is I wake up at 7am, not 6am. That's it. Could be It's light years apart, isn't it? Yeah, fair play, So, I think there's a massive correlation, right, between people not drinking or being addicted before and doing ultras. So obviously that's something that you're taking into it and that's why I think you'll do well and I think it's why you can suffer properly. I do. Just from all your experience, because you line up in that start line, reckon 70 to 80 % of people have all got a story really similar. It seems to be a vibe, doesn't it? Anything you want to add? No, I think there's definitely correlations there between addiction and ultras and mental health and ultras. You know, someone who's been battling themselves or battling addiction for their whole life for years. They've been fighting against something forever. So this is just another run through of what they do on a daily basis anyway. Some really mentally strong people at those start and finish lines. I think with what's going on at the minute and what happened last week, it'd be nice to mention about the three armed forces personnel that unfortunately lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I didn't know two of them, but I knew Lily Mae Fisherwell, she was really special person, Incredible accomplishments. all of them, not to take away, but I only knew her. And she had a big impact on my life. I thought, what an impressive, amazing human being. Yeah, unreal. And it's just a good show to the world of, she never gave up trying to be a pilot, never gave up trying to be the first female All Arms Commando. Navy Commando, sorry, not All Arms. ⁓ And it's just like what you can do if you don't give up. I she'll have inspired a lot of women. just think, yeah, I just think she's an incredibly inspirational person, even outside the military. Like, you know, she was mountaineering, running, doing all kinds of things outside the military. But then inside the military, just yeah, powerhouse for women. It's a serious loss. I bumped into her on Crib Gotk. That's the first time I've met her on Crib. Like, I know you, I know you. You know, like, what the hell? Don't look scared, don't look scared. And it was really nice. Yeah, and I hope, mean, yeah, it's early days in it, but hopefully people that didn't know who she was, especially women, learn about her off the back of that and see what you can actually achieve because she really fucking achieved a lot. Lovely girl from a lovely family and just thoughts to her family and her close friends and partners and everything like that. And to the others too. Yeah, for sure. Where can people find you, Dave? on the canal late at night, running very slowly. With the fish and chips apparently. Civita Commando, spelled C-I-V-V-Y, the number two commando, all of them, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, blah, blah, website. Yeah, that's it. I'm excited to see what you're doing in the future, because you're doing a lot. I feel like you might be spinning a lot of plates. A lot of people say that. Yeah. Looking for some big ones next year. Maybe we should go and do something together. Let's do something. You'll be finished, washed, showered, fed. No, no. Yeah, I'm up for all sorts of stuff. the only reason I do ultras is to help with mountaineering to make me stronger. That's literally it. It's just I also happen to like competing as well. And that's just part of it. We're not too far away from it. We're going to some training ones. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, I'm all about eating up the miles. I don't care about pace, same to you. Time is irrelevant. I think it's an unnecessary burden people put on themselves. So yeah, thanks mate. It was genuinely a pleasure to meet you. I've loved that top one. Thank you Dan. Appreciate it. I hope you like your SIG gear. Mate, that's as cool as fuck. I love this. Come on son. I this is size quadruple XL for my head.