Latest / Atomic Rambo Podcast / Paralysed, Then He Kayaked the Length of Britain | Darren Edwards
Transcript
- Atomic Rambo: So before we start today's podcast, I just wanted to explain something because I always knew this was going to happen, but had some technical issues. After 10 minutes on Darren's episode, one of the cameras malfunctions and we lose all video. The audio is all good, luckily, but I just wanted to explain that before. If you're watching this on YouTube, after 10 minutes it cuts out and we've got... pictures and videos of Darren doing all the amazing things he does around the world. The reason I started this podcast was exactly to showcase people like Darren and the work they do and the incredible things that they achieve. It was such a humbling experience. I haven't quite met someone like that before, to be honest. Dan Holder: I'm Dan Holder This is the Atomic Rambo podcast and today's guest fell 100 foot off a cliff, survived. ⁓ Then he's become ⁓ I would say of the most inspirational dudes, incredibly resilient and got an amazing commitment. ⁓ Sit skied, enormous distances in Antarctica. Today's guest is Darren Edwards. Hey Darren. Atomic Rambo: and I found him incredibly inspirational. I took a lot from the chat. So yeah, enjoy the podcast. I apologize about the video. I'm doing my best and learning as we go and trying to produce the best thing I can. Yeah, so take it as a learner and I'll adapt from there. Dan Holder: Thank you, buddy. No worries mate. Love the intro. yeah, well mate, you're just an inspirational dude, like genuinely. It's just, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're going to get into it, but do you want to give us a bit of a general synopsis? Of who I, yeah, yeah. you are, yeah. I go for the CV version. So I would now say I'm an adaptive adventurer. For a little while I was calling myself a disabled adventurer and then I was... having some conflict with that first word. You're trying to show people what is possible at the same time. Yeah, it's not quite on the positive spectrum. Whereas what I've learned post-injury is that when you adapt and you improvise, you can overcome. And that I think is probably like a military mindset kind of thing. Yeah, 100%. So now I've of have gone from where life was really clear in terms of who I wanted to be and where I wanted to go. and to do similar stuff to what you're doing and to keep climbing and to evolve as a mountaineer, then to have that life-changing accident and all of a sudden you're kind of faced with an uncertain future. And I'm really proud, and pride took quite a few years to come, but I'm really proud that I can now sit with you and we can have a hopefully an interesting conversation about some of the things that are possible regardless of spinal cord injury or disability. And actually, I've... probably done more because of my accident than I ever would have done without it. And that is that piece, obviously we've had a bit of a chat, we've been chatting since you got out of but that part of would you, because I get asked this a lot, do you regret anything or wish you could take it back and stuff like that and I always say no, my life is the life I'm living and I'm living it for a reason. Do you feel like that then? For me, four years. four years of life post-injury until I could hand on heart say to you I wouldn't go back and stand a foot to the left and not fall. For those first four years, I was very much ⁓ unsure about whether I loved this new life as much as I loved my old life. And as much as I was trying to look to the future, there was still that temptation to kind of look to the past and kind of think, have I already lived my peak years? Yeah, definitely. Life's a journey. I've met people that I went to rehab with, and I'm sure we can talk about it in more detail, but we're now eight, nine years later and they're still stuck. And that's really hard. Yeah, so my thoughts on what you just said is four years is actually really quick. I mean, with my own PTSD, what I call post-traumatic growth, it probably took six years for me to kind of come to terms with everything. I think four years is good going, which I think is testament to who you were beforehand, because I think a lot of that's carried over, isn't it? and we can get more into that but your mindset seems to be very, because I talk about having a flexible mindset, not a strong mindset, because I think a strong mindset is actually kind of a weakness. But I think you've clearly, you've got a mindset that's been able to adapt really well. Yeah, but I think that's what mountaineering teaches you. Yeah, 100 % of problems. Yeah, I think when before we put the cameras on and started recording, we knew that this would be an easy conversation because there's so much that we've had through shared experience. And I think for me, what Mountaineering taught me was patience, perseverance, resilience, all of those things that, you know, there's a book called Do Hard Things. like, is simple as those three words. Yeah, do hard things. Do hard things. Because I think, you know, if I hadn't done those things, if I hadn't, you know, climbed mountains and experienced like hardship and had to turn back from the summit because, you know, things hadn't gone to plan or whatever it was, that's building something in you. that if you took away all of those experiences, and I can talk about selection for the SAS Reserve, because that's another one, you take away all of those experiences and then you throw me into the same, I don't know, I get hit by a car and I break my back. I don't know what I would draw on. ⁓ you know, so say Hills, which is like the first six months of ⁓ SAS Reserve selection, where we went from 150 blokes to, I think, haven't passed in the end, like those six months down to 25. And that whole process, what they're trying to throw at you is uncertainty, unknowns, you don't know when it's going to end, you get to the top of, I don't know, Penofan, after five hours of hiking or whatever you want to call it, tabbing, and then they send you right back to where you just come from. Yeah, about time. Yeah, yeah, and then they bounce you from bit to bit to bit. And people quit because it's like the... It's just building resilience and mindset, isn't Yeah, so I think... I love that. So all of that and the mountaineering. all of that kind of stuff. think when my accident then happened, there was just enough in the tank to, because I talk about, as I say, my accident was at World's End, which is like a rock face in North Wales. Beautiful. I've been back and I think I went back not sure how I would feel about looking at it. And I just looked at it and I was like, you are like, it's a beautiful problem to look at. And like as a climber, you want to kind of like look at the lines and you're like, right, okay. and I went back and I could see where I was and where I fell. And you look at all of these like rocks that are strewn beneath it, which in history have at some point crumbled and fallen off. you know, I think I might be the only person to have been on one when it collapsed. Yeah. But there anyway. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So for me, all of those experiences prior meant that when, so me and my best mate are climbing World's End, beautiful summer's day. Just doing what you love, just chatting shit. He's going on a first date that night, we're just talking about that. And we're just climbing different routes, know, going from the sort of a 500 foot ⁓ limestone rock face. And we tried different routes and then we were kind of like one pitch from the end. And there's this one final pitch above and we're stood on this ledge which is like as wide as his carpet. So it's only six foot. And it's my turn to lead. So I walk away from that along this ledge. And there's this photo of me which is like really powerful for me because it's me walking away from that climbing harness on, you know, all of the kind of cams and nuts like hanging off my harness. And it's me just walking away from that on that little ledge just about to start. And it's like me walking away from the camera, blue sky. And I think for me it's really powerful because it's almost like walking into the future that you don't know. Like it's quite a physical representation. It's the unknown. Yeah. And then I start and it's this sort of final pitch, it's probably like an E1, so at the limit of what I was leading in trad. And then two or three minutes later grunted my way to the top. And you know what it's like when you get to the top or to the top of that section or to a mountain top and you just get that moment. And that's kind of like, that moment is what Especially on a nice day in North Wales. Yeah, exactly, yeah, a rarity, yeah. And then, you know... ⁓ I'm trying to protect Matt as he comes up to me, he's moved on, doing something a bit more interesting now, but he's a Navy mine clearance diver. Strong guy, bit bigger than me, I was like a scrawny runner and climber. And he tried a couple of times. He's like me coming up. Yeah, you're a strong bloke, you've got that sort rugby build. Yeah. Don't look technically great when I'm... going up a rock face sometimes. I don't think I did either, but it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's how it feels. And it's only when we make the decision that I will just abseil back down to him and walk off on this ledge, back down to the car. So you're gonna, yeah, so you're gonna come down and then... Yeah, and then I've set it up so then once I get back to the ledge I can run it out. so you've got the rope round a spike or something. ⁓ And it says I'm backing up to the drop, so the drop's kind of like immediately behind me. And I just always remember just taking one look over my shoulder, over my right shoulder, and I can just see Matt down below me. And I'm relaxed, because it's sort of like I was always scared of heights. I was always like, there's that healthy respect. But I was relaxed enough that my hand was loose on the rope because I hadn't committed. I was just sort like, yeah, you were just waiting. And then it's as I look over my shoulder and I look back. towards where my setup is and straight ahead to you. It's as I look forward that I hear this snap and I feel that theme park ride drop and the section I'm stood on, is probably four foot by two foot, just collapses by a foot and stops. And I was like, fuck that. I was like, fuck me. And I felt like I just lucked it. I stood on this flake and it had dropped just by a foot and it stopped. And it's as it dropped by that foot and then stopped for a fraction of a second when I thought I was safe, it then slowly peeled off. Yeah. And I was on it. I was stood on this thing. And all of a sudden, you you go from that position of like security and safety and relaxed to being thrown off the top. And I'm very conscious that there's 500 feet down to a scree slope at 45 degree angle. And I think the only chance I was going to survive was hitting the ledge that Matt was on and staying on it. that, you know, rock collapses, I go with it. Matt's beneath what's happening. So there's a very good chance he's just going to get hit by me or the boulder. And yeah, for the next couple of seconds, which felt like two or three minutes, because I think, you know, when you have these experiences, time seems to... ⁓ it strings out. Yeah. Yeah. Massively. Yeah. And for me, in those couple of seconds, like... It wasn't life flashing before my eyes, but I really remember thinking about all the people that I was never going to get saved by to. And it was like this, this roll call of who was most important in my life. My mum, my dad, my sister, Matt, you know, the guy beneath me, my girlfriend. And if it wasn't for what Matt did, I wouldn't have seen those people and said like, I love you or I'm sorry. So I hit the ledge that Matt's on by a land flat on my back. And what we don't know at the time is I hit the ledge. I break my back, I sever the spinal cord at T6, which is around kind of like your chest level. I just start to tumble. And there's a very short six foot between me and the next rock. Yeah, and you're off to the next bit. And rolling. And I remember trying to reach out and brace my body to stop myself. But obviously I don't know that. can't do anything apart from my arms. And I'm rolling, rolling, rolling, just about to slip. And Matt throws himself on top of me, hoping that his weight was enough to just stop me. and he got to me as I was just about to slip and then he pulls me back and it was that dust settle moment of like, what the fuck has just happened? And yeah, I think I was probably lying there for a minute, just kind of like come into terms with like, what did just happen? And like the, the I'm alive kind of moment. And then after a minute, I was like, that was crazy, right, I'm gonna stand up. And it says, I tried to stand up, but nothing happened. And I was like, that was weird. And we put it down to shock and Matt kind of went into probably like medic mode. Of course, Just keep it thing, let's just calm it situation down and let's give it minute. I gave it a minute and I was like, right, I'm good, I'm good. Well, I say I'm good. I've got a scar that runs up my right arm to my shoulder. So as I fell, my arm like, not good. My arm ripped through the rock. So as far as I'm aware, the pain in my arm. you got a big laceration. Yeah, I'm just like, okay. just tore my arm open, I'm all right. And then I was like, right, I'll get up, get up. And as I tried to get up for the second time, my chest and up kind of like came up and then my legs were lifeless beneath me. And I was like, then I was just trying to flick a toe, move a knee. And I think that was the moment that Matt got his phone out, called 999 Mountain Rescue. They're there after an hour. And I think by that point, I'd come to terms with the fact that I was. in a bad way. And as soon as they're there, we spoke about control before we started recording. Control as the patient or the person in need, it feels like your control has slipped away. Yeah, you're at the mercy of everyone else now. And suddenly you're being told where you're going to be taken and what's suddenly happened. Did they airlift you off or lay They did. So Coast Guard was there another hour later, so two hours. Lois Winchman flies off to refuel. And I'm looking at what I thought was my rescue fly away. And psychologically I was like, what's happening. I remember being a bit panicked in that moment. I'd like held on mentally. I was like, keep your head above water, keep your head above water, be okay. And then that helicopter comes. I'm like, I'm being taken to safety and it flies away. And I remember just looking at the winchman and being like, what's happening? And he's like, it's just going to refuel. It's going to come back. And then it's three hours by the time I'm then airlifted up. But I always remember I'm just about to be airlifted up. I'm in this like cocoon that they're going to inflate. and Matt is like knelt down right next to me. I remember grabbing him and I'll be like, whatever happens next, promise me that you won't let me give up. And I think it was me. This is what I was going to ask you. Yeah, I think it was me trying to take a bit of ownership in chaos and it was me leaning on my best mate and being like, I need you to hold me. Yes, accountable. Yeah, because accountability is massive. Yeah. So I was going to ask you, did you, it's an affirmation, isn't it? Yeah. So I have. and now you know because we've never met. Obviously I've been in quite a few bad situations before where people that survived and they've been talking and especially labs in the marines, they've got a lot about them, same as you and a lot of the time they would say stuff like that and I wondered whether you did say something like that and it sounds like you did and you lived by it. Fair play. And Matt did both sounds of as well. He later told me that because I've been hit with two bits of morphine, he wasn't quite sure what I said. Yes. And like a couple weeks later, yeah, yeah, so it was more slur than it was like, kind of like, you know. But what's important is you've made that for yourself already. So you've already implanted that in your mind. Yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if just that little, mean, just shows incredible resilience at the time, doesn't it? I think it shows. commitment to yourself. mindset that you can create by doing hardship, by mountaineering or going for the military, but you don't have to do stuff like that. think it's just you are the sum of your experiences. Yeah, 100%. And I think all of those experiences had reaffirmed that the foundation of your ability to overcome is the ownership test. Do you pass the ownership test of like, this happened, I'm gonna take, you know, like I just hated in those three hours feeling like my life was not being dictated by me. Yeah, or this is it. This is, this you know. And I don't want to be defined by, if anything about that day was gonna define my future, I didn't want it to be the moment the rock collapsed. I wanted it to be the moment that I grabbed my best mate and said, whatever happens, just don't let me give up. Yeah. You know. So what a guy Matt is then, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a funny story behind the first date that never happened. So I'll tell you the next couple of hours. So I'm flown off to Stoke Major Trauma Unit. I'm taken into intensive care. That evening, I was conscious for the whole thing, not for the surgery, but the whole accident, being flown to hospital, being in the ambulance. I remember sort of coming in and out of consciousness. you know, waking up and you're going through the hospital corridor and just looking at the ceiling of those fluorescent lights and stuff. Taken into surgery, I think it was like a nine hour surgery. So as I'd landed, the force of the impact had snapped my spine in two, it complete sever and had severed the spinal cord. And the surgery was to kind of bolt it back together, put the Wolverine titanium on it. And I remember coming around in intensive care the next morning. And the surgeon who operated on me was kind of like doing the rounds and kind of came and sort of said, look, I'm really sorry, but the force of the impact did this, it means this. And obviously I think your question and my question to him in that moment would be the same. And that is like, am I ever going to walk again? And I asked him, he didn't hesitate, didn't emotionally react to He didn't beat around the bush. And he was like, no. And I said, you know, can I do anything? And in my head, I'm like, if I train hard enough, if I rehab hard enough, anything is possible. And he said, I can tell you with complete certainty that no matter how hard you try, the connection is not there. So he was like, so can I give you a few words of advice? And I remember kind of like, not sure I wanted, you know, anything. I was sort of reeling from the first bit of what he said. And he was like, look, you know, I've seen... many people go through these kind of life-changing injuries. And the thing that makes the biggest difference isn't what happened to them, it's their ability to look to the future and not to the past. Look forward, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not just dwell on what you were. I we'll probably get onto identity at some point, because I have questions around what you were doing before when you were younger. But that's the important thing, isn't it? Is not attaching yourself so heavily to what you were before. which I know a lot of guys who are in the military struggle with and a lot of not just people in the military, all sorts. I speak to people who were, for me, I was a good runner when I was younger. I called myself a runner for a long time and I wasn't running. Do you see what I mean? People would be like, oh yeah, I'm running. I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm a good runner. Like 10 years ago. Now I've started doing it again, but that identity piece, you need to be aware that you are who you are. and not all these things that we attach to ourselves. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think it's scary because like you, my identity was wrapped up in my physicality. Yes. And the ability to do stuff. Yes. And also, I don't know, maybe that knowledge that... You're a young man too. Yeah, exactly. So there's a bit of bravado there, but the whole process of intensive care and then rehabilitation for five months, that was all a humbling experience. I bet. For the first time in 27 years, I realised how much I needed people. And I realised that isn't a weakness. Whereas before, so much of my mindset was, if you pointed to the top of that mountain and said, can you run up it, I'd give it a good go and I'd do it on my own. And then all of a sudden you're in an environment where you've been humbled, where you need that physio, you need that OT, you need that nurse, you need that doctor. And like... it levels you, takes away the bravado and the ego and it just strips you back to who you are underneath. And for me, I think... The real you. Yeah, And for me, think that made me realise that the real me wasn't intrinsically linked to a mountain or to the ability to run or the ability to do this. It's kind of like underneath all of that, who are you at your core? And for me, I think I was somebody who didn't want to be defined by... their injury, know, wanted to kind of like return to a world that really mattered to me, that world of sort of challenge and adventure, even if I had to adapt the way I did it. You know, and I remember just rehab was a little bit like mountaineering or the selection process because you were constantly being asked to go one more, one bit higher, you know, and every day you would... Another bit. Yeah. Or can you go that one bit further? And it's so self-led, like you could see in rehab that you had 30 people going through at the same time and you could see the people that wanted to take charge of their future and you could see the people that had kind of given up. know, and it is... must be really hard to watch though, especially if you're around similar people all Yeah, there's a guy who's sort of similar age to me, know, similar injury to me and like I wanted to bring him on the journey with us. and as a two, as two people that are through it together. But he struggled mentally and it's like what you do with your work now and supporting people, and why I kind of got into speaking, is that you're trying to share your... Yeah, just that little bit of positivity and insight into your mind and how your mind has helped you to then progress out of it, which is the really important thing. It's the reframing of something negative that can then propel you forward. And as you've already said, propel you to probably do more than what you would have done if it hadn't have happened, which isn't crazy. It's what's actually achievable for people, isn't it? A perspective is huge, Massively, massively. I think it's just having that ability to pause. when things are getting a bit, you you're in that kind of emotional overwhelmed state, just to pause, take a step back and look at life with that slightly wider lens. And for me, that was coming back to the very simple fact that in those couple of seconds of falling, everything I cared about was about to be lost. And every time I got to see them again, whether that was my mum, my girlfriend, Matt, my sister, you know, I was thankful. So gratitude as well, perspective of gratitude, kind of like this. this duo that can really help you to reset and move forward. And I remember Kate, one of my physios, saying to me, look, it's not about what happened to you, it's about the person you want to become. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you become a fantastic person. Yeah. Like it's not rare. For me, it's quite, like I know a lot of guys who obviously lost limbs. Do you know John White? Yes, I know. So I was there when he got blown up and he's obviously a triple amputee. He's a legend. He's an absolute legend. What he does is... I can see a lot of you in him. His mindset and everything is just unbelievable. Exactly the same as you. I just see guys like that and I think your point of doing hard things beforehand... has aided you, it's the same for him, know, he was a mountain leader in the Marines, he was a great officer, just a good bloke, and that's shown the other side. so. Yeah man, in discomfort there is, in discomfort there's kind of like growth I think, and that's the challenge that we've got with the next generation of kids coming up, and that next generation of men is... when we grew up in such a comfortable society, where probably increasingly people are inside, on screens. It's that getting outside. Yeah, it's not a resilience build to do in that. I say this to people all the time, just get out and do something even if it's a park run. Go and do your park run or if it's raining, get out in the rain. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at, but go and do it. Even that will change your life. you're used to, your bar's up here like it is and some people's bar is going and doing a park run or something and just engaging with people who are doing hard things just makes such a difference. Did you... Because obviously this is incredibly hard, And were you five months in hospital, was it, rehabbing? yeah, yeah. Then was there some times though where you were like, this is rock bottom? Uh-huh. So two weeks before my discharge, the woman that I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with, you know, the person that I, when I looked at my future and I had this image in my head, it was me and her doing stuff and other couples, able-bodied couples. looking at this couple with the girl next to the guy in the wheelchair at the top of a hill or on top of a mountain, know, like people would be like, that's love, know, unconditional, doesn't matter. And then I think now I look back, I can see that that person that I thought was the one was steadily showing up less, steadily more disengaged. And then two weeks before my discharge, and this is me going home to our home together, two weeks before. She comes to hospital and she's really like, I could just see something was wrong. And she sat down next to my bed that I was just sat up in after doing a physio session. And she just looked at me and she looked so defeated. And she just said, I just can't do it. And I was like, that work? You know, like she was a doctor. I was like, is it work? And she was like, it's us. And she just said, like, I don't think I'm the person to be with you for this journey and I'm really sorry. And she burst into tears. She stood up. walked away from me, walked out of the double doors to the spinal unit and I never saw her again. Didn't answer a phone call, didn't answer a text and for her I think she struggled to see how our relationship was going to adapt and for me in the aftermath of that... She didn't have the mindset you've got. Yeah, that was rock bottom for me. Yeah, fair enough. because just to imagine that you're... girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, husband, suddenly says to you, I can't love you like this. You know, for me, that was the first moment that in four and a half months, that promise I made on the ledge at world's end went. I was like, never thought I'd have to, whenever I said whatever happens next, I never thought I'd lose the person I loved most. And watching her walk out was just devastating. And that is when Kate gave me those words of advice, you know. She came up to me, I had that blue curtain, everyone knows around your bed, had that pulled around, so I was just shutting the world out. I didn't want to be here, I was done. In your own bubble. Yeah, my own bubble of despair and heartbreak, know? And then Kate kind of like, you know, comes in through that blue curtain and she was like, look, I know there's nothing I can say that's gonna kind of like flick that switch. But she was like, but just do one thing for me, just, instead of, you know, being led by how you feel. be led by who you want to be. she was like, so your future self is what I call it. Yeah. She was like, an image in your head of where you are four years from now, what you've got on to achieve. And when you've got that image, retrace his steps to right here, right now. And whenever, when I leave this little, you know, bubble, yeah, play it forward, play it forward. So she leaves, I get this image in my head because I had enough respect for Kate, that humility piece. Like I'd lent on her for four and a half months. And she took me from this guy that was so weak and could barely push a wheelchair, you know, had lost all of his muscle from being in bed for the first six weeks, which you have to do. And I was like, right, okay, four years from now, this is the guy I want to be. So I called up Matt and I was like, look, will you pick me up from hospital and will you take me somewhere? And he was like, yeah, sure. And I was like, just whatever you do, don't question it. And he was like, all right, dude. So he turns up the next day, give him the postcode for a kayak and a canoe shop in Manchester. We drive two hours from where I'm going through rehab. And I just go up to the guy behind the counter and I'm like, want to buy a sea kayak. He's like, brilliant. How much kayaking have you done? And I was like, absolutely none. And I was like, I bought a sea kayak, a paddle, a buoyancy aid. stood next to me went, well, if you're doing it, mate, I'm doing it. So he did the same. Like all good bros. Yeah, yeah, all good bros. And we turned it back at hospital. I found Kate, got her to come out to the car park and I genuinely thought she would be overflowing with pride. And I pointed to this kayak and she looked at me really deadpan and was like, please tell me that's not yours. But for me, that was the start of this journey. Yeah, but you're like, I'm playing it forward now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the next step was to get into a swimming pool with it and to be completely shit. Well, how are you going to get any better? Because I've got no, you think about where my injury is. Yeah. I've got no core muscle or leg muscle. Yeah, so I think this is really important point so people understand. Yeah. So do you want to explain just what you can do and what you can't do? Because as we go on in this chat, the things that you now do... Which is what's mind-blowing for me because the admin side of it and everything is just wild. Do you want to explain for people what you can and can't do? Yeah, so I can't move or feel anything below the bottom of my ribs which means from a kayaking perspective there's no core muscle, there's no hip function, I knew so little about kayaking that I thought it didn't matter. It does. is quite important. So I can't do that. you know pee or you know bladder and bowels the way that a normal person would so to use catheters and stuff. Yeah so that's kind of like the limit physically there's loads of other stuff that come with it. that's like I'm sure part of the course is like so there were lots of reasons for me that leaving hospital you know I was discharged on 23rd of December and on Christmas Eve I was in a swimming pool with that kayak with loads of my mates around me in the water as like safety divers. Just ready to... Where Matt was a good guy or so. Yeah, so I had the right... You got the right guys. And I think that goes back to what you do and why I'm so passionate about what I do now. It's that sense of community. And I think when you go through something and you lose your identity, and like you said about blokes that have left the military or lost that kind of identity, you have to lean on the people that are around you and have the kind of like humility to... to be open and honest about. know what mate, like in the aftermath of losing that person, you know, that girlfriend, it was like double, was like the life changing injury and a heartbreak rolled into one. Yeah. So my mates probably saw me at my weakest emotionally and vulnerability at its highest and that was okay. Yeah. You know. And it's all right to, I mean, I you should feel those things when they're happening. I think a lot of people think, ⁓ no, I need to be either tougher than this or put it to the side or mask it with drink or, ⁓ I did that for a long time. But you actually want to feel it ⁓ in order to, and that's probably why, what I wanted to say is you've got some really, it sounds like you had some very good people around you, ⁓ physio wise and doctors and then your friends. and then family, would you say that your upbringing's helped? Yeah, yeah, I think. I had two very good role models in my parents. I had a grafter over dad. Old school, we'll come on to my dad later. Cockney, of all things. Apples and pears, stairs, all of that kind of jazz. But great grafter, work ethic, problem solver, could build things. I had a mum that was always sort of like, and still is, always there. You know what mean? Like the rock. Yeah, the rock. Yeah, amazing. I remember when I was in intensive care and I saw her for the first time after my accident, I held out a hand and said, I'm so sorry. And I thought my accident was going to break my mum because no parent should lose a child or see a child with a serious injury. And she was not broken by it. was still the rock. And happy you're still there. Yeah. And she probably felt it when she was at home on her own. Whenever she was with me, she was this kind of like quite stoic figure. Fair play. Good mum. Good man. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so then you've got your canoe. Yeah. Where do you go from here? ⁓ I rock up three months later at the British Paralympic kayaking team. Of course you do. So I was total, total shit in the kayaks. That first time I think I capsized 27 times, but then it was from a swimming pool to a canal to a river. to a lake, you know, I kind of lived near you, so we had the River Severn, we had North Wales on the doorstep, and it was always with my mates. We turn up at places and we park up, there'd be a locked farm gate, river the other side, and next thing I know, my mates are literally like throwing me over this, you know, one and be on one side. Park gate. Yeah, one and be on the other, and I'd just be lifted over like, sort of like some sort of goods that would be in transition. So I was surrounded by people that kind of didn't see the barriers. I was surrounded by people that were like... Right, okay, that's a challenge. How are we gonna command task, problem solve it, get through it? So I was just kind of like surrounded by this adaptive mindset of people, me included, but the people around me. So I rock up at the, I see a flyer for like, are you the next athlete for Tokyo 2020? And it was a picture of a woman in a kayak. And I was like, maybe I could do that. So I like email in, I'm like, right, can I come and try it out? So I rock up three months after my accident. And the guy's like, when were you injured? And I was like, ⁓ three months ago. And he was like, okay. And I was told later that it was the highest level of injury they'd ever assessed. I'm not surprised. Because most people would think, I haven't got any core muscles, I probably shouldn't. Because my sea kayak is relatively stable. The boats you're racing for 200 metres are ⁓ tippy as hell. So I remember getting in, he's like, right, Darren, when you're ready, push off, just do a warm up, and then we'll take it from there. And I pushed off from this pontoon. and within about half a metre I'm upside down. And the guy who's assessing me, who's like a multi-Olympian, is like, right, okay, do you wanna get out? it's a cold March morning, so get in the shower and you can head home. And I was like, do mind if I try one more time? I'm just nervous. And then second time around I get a metre fall in. And he's like, do you wanna get out? And I'm like, do mind if I try one more time? And we did this for an hour and a half. And every time I'd get maybe a half a metre further, and an hour and a half later I'm like, I've a warm up, I'm mildly like hypothermic by this point. And he shouts to kind of like the middle of the lake where I'd managed to reach. He was like, just come over, get out, meet me in my office. So he wasn't sort of like, he was more definitive. And I'm sat in his office 20 minutes later and he was like, look, you've got no talent. You've got no ability, but I love the way that you think. You don't give up, bro. So do you want to come back? And I was like, so I've been told on one hand I was total shit, but on the other hand that there was something in it. So I turned up again and again and again and before I know it I'm spending two days a week there, three days a week there and all of a sudden that image I had in my head of like four years on doing something that really was impressive and meant something to me that I was proud of was kind of insight and I was you know doing what I could to qualify for Tokyo that would have been four years what was the time frame? So from my accident to the Games was four years. Okay, yeah, so you've got four years to get good enough, but obviously the selection's way before that, it? so it's like half a season. And am I right in thinking there isn't many places? It's like one. Yeah. Yeah, so Olympics, you've got a lot more depth. More, yeah. So three and a half years later, which is a very quick summary of what was a very interesting three and a half years ago. Yeah, if you graph stuff wrong and falling out of my chair and making an idiot out of myself. getting back into the world of dating at some point when I felt like I risk trusting someone again, which is ultimately how I my now wife. Lucky woman. Yeah, Lucky guy. She's... We'll go on to what she's supporting me. But the short, long story short, is that I was second and I missed out on that slot. And I've come so far... There's a whole lot of learning. Yeah, yeah, but not far enough. And at the time, I really felt like I'd like... Yeah, bet. I was like... It's because you committed to that one thing. Yeah, yeah. For this one... Yeah. And then, something like COVID happened and the Paralympics gets pushed back and the Olympics to 2021, a year later. Yeah. And I was like, right, in a year and a bit's time, who do I want to be? I was kind of revisiting the Kate thing of like, reset and let's go again. And I was like, right, well, when the Paralympics are on TV, I don't want to be sat at home feeling sorry for myself. So I'm gonna do something when that's on. So I came up with the idea of like, could you kayak from Land's End to John O'Groats? Fuck knows why I thought that was a logical next step when I just failed to qualify for an Olympic Games. I mean, yeah. Sounds good to me. So I called up four guys I've met through one of the military sort of like para snow sports charities. Yep. And I just pitched them the idea. Which one was that? AFPST, ⁓ Forces Para Snow Sports Team. Cool. Brilliant. alpine skiing, Nordic I'm just interested in anything like that, I think it's amazing. spoke about Adaptive Grand Slam, who I met on Denali, who just seem like great initiatives. And it's part of that, like, why the military community is so valuable. You've got that charity, this charity, everybody is trying to build that identity and community. So I pitched it to four guys. One had had a stroke, one had been shot seven times on an operation. One has stood on an IED in Afghanistan, one had an incomplete spinal injury so could stand and walk. And I just sort of said, look, I've got this idea, Le Jog, you know, the classic, but by kayak. And at this point, only one bloke had done it. And he was like a high level paddler. And I was like, look, we've got a year and a bit to plan, prepare, train, do everything we can. Are you in? And the four guys were like, yes, so Ben, Carl, Johnny, Luke and myself. And then a year and a half later, we're on the start line, stood beneath that signpost at Land's End. looking down at these like 300 foot cliffs with these crashing waves against the thing. Yeah, it's big there. And in my head I was like it's going to be like a golden sandy beach in Cornwall and it would just be this beautiful, you know. And then the next morning we're dropped off at our start point so we've got like a rib, you know, kind of, yeah. So the rib is our support boat. We get to our start point two kilometres offshore so we're trying to stay away from those big... Big rollers, yeah. It's a high energy coastline. it's a shipwrecked coastline. And the route would take us through Cornwall Dev and the Bristol Channel, second biggest tidal range in the world, Irish Sea, wild, we had a really hairy moment there. And then up to the North Sea. And everybody wrote us off. And I think in many ways we were like, we may get a day, we may get a week, but however far we get, we'll be proud of what we achieve. And it's a big step for five blokes with disabilities. Yeah, and may I add a big step for you in organising those type of things. Yeah, yeah. probably then helped going forward with all the other things you Yeah, and we talk about leadership and authentic leadership. For me, being the expedition leader on that one, I learned the hard way that my leadership style would be kind of, you lead by example, even if that example is that you are finding it the toughest of the group. being honest. Yeah, yeah. But still, you know, was the dude and we restarted and I'm like in the boat for the first time and I'm like, right, this is how we're going to do it. Five minutes in, I'm upside down, big wave, I crash in and then in the water I'm like, right, I'm going to get back up and I'm going to get in this boat and I'm going to pick the paddle up and carry on. And we'd never trained for that. Like, how do you get a bloke who's paralysed below the chest back into a boat? And then three times I'm pulling myself up, dragging myself on like a dead seal. another wave comes knocks me straight back in and it was the fourth time we got it. And I was like, you know, my example might just be perseverance, but that's fine. But it's just so hard to engage like without any core. The only way I can describe it. don't think people... Medicine ball on a medicine ball. So if I put you on a medicine ball, you would have that same sense of right, I've got to find the balance. And then the waves are effectively another medicine ball underneath. So you're like just all over the place. And all the weights up here. Yeah, so you're quite top heavy. to summarise the expedition, 26 days later, and we can talk about the bits in between, there's some funny moments and hair-raising moments, 26 days later we reach John O'Groats, 1,400 kilometres later, and we are all astounded we've done it. The other four guys are quite stripped out lean, probably got a good six-pack on show. I finished with a really thick neck. Because what I realised is I do so much of my balancing with my head. all I did was increase the size of my like necks and up front over 26 days. But it was on that expedition, we got three weeks in, 1000K in, and we're on the locks of South West Scotland. And it's a day where there is literally no wind. So you're coming up through the Hebrides type. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was the anniversary of my accident. So like... for the first three years that they had come around. And I remember like the first year I went up to the top of a hill with my family and had a picnic. And we all just reflected on like what a year it had been. You know, we were still all together and that was most important thing. But every day, every time that day came around, there's nothing I wouldn't give to go back and to change what happened. And then four years on, we're paddling through, you know, Southwest Scotland and I'm like almost on my way to achieving the best thing I'd ever achieved in my life. There's no wind, no waves. And I just feel so at peace with the journey that those four years have been. And I shit you not, paddling along and then this dolphin jumps out of the water, of course, and like dives back in. And before we know it, we have a pod of dolphins swimming beneath our support boat under the kayak. And I was paddling along and I was like, ⁓ my God, you know that, I'm an idiot. Everything I need is here. Yeah, everything. You've got everything. I just hadn't realised it. Yeah, yeah. I had camaraderie, friendship, love, purpose, challenge, adventure. I was like, you're an idiot. You've had it. You're not an idiot. You just had to deal with extremely hard stuff. But unless you did the hard things, then that's my point of people doing hard stuff. And it doesn't have to be that mad. Yeah, exactly. doing hard things. Being around people just gives you so much. It's hard to replicate. It's why it's important people find your tribe. Over the course of those 26 days, I'd have a great day whilst Johnny had a low day. I remember for the first four or five days, Johnny was untouchable. You'd be watching him kayak on these huge waves and he'd be like, he's good. And I remember he capsized four days in and you could just see it dented his confidence a little bit, that like impenetrable armour had taken a dink. And I just remember going up to him and we were back in the harbour and I just sort of like nudged him and I was like, mate, you're gonna be all right, look at me, sort of thing. And it is just that, you know, life isn't a linear line of like, it's the journey. Yeah, it's the journey. We're gonna have a good day. hopefully like that. Yes, general trend. But there's peaks and troughs all the time. Yeah, and you've just got to... lean on your mates and lean on your network and be honest. Yeah. So what happened in the Irish sea? So we looked at the map and we're like, we were looking at the map and we had five days of kind of like following the coastline. It kind of comes inward and then, you know, back outwards towards like Northern Ireland sort of direction. And we remember we were just looking at a map in a pub when we were having dinner one evening. So we came back into harbour, went to get something to eat and someone was like, what if we just straight lined it? and it was straight lining it from Whitehaven in Cumbria straight across to what's called Strandra or something like that. And it was like an 80K Irish sea crossing that would save us five days. And we were like, this is genius. And we were looking at what the risks are and stuff and we were like, well, the safety boat be with us. That'll mitigate some of those risks of being so exposed. So anyway, so we start and for the first two or three hours, beautiful, no wind, no waves. We were like this. was this was the right decision. And we get about three hours in and the visibility starts to drop and you just see that clag coming in, the mist coming in. And eventually it was really down to a hundred meters. And the safety boat, the way we were doing it was normally behind the kayaks because it could just see what was going on and react. But because we were having to navigate across a featureless terrain, prep for Antarctica perhaps, the boat was in front. and the boat was on a bearing and we were just following the boat. And I remember that because we obviously had two boats, five paddlers, we were rotating, I'm on the safety boat and we were having a chat about like, with this weather, what are we going to do? Are we going to drop a pin and call it a day and we'll bug out? And it's as we're looking at the GPS map, remember we're like, know, involved in the cockpit of this rib. And then I turn around and can't see the can't see anything behind us. ⁓ And you just see the mist, that grey kind of like, you know, and we're all kind of like, fuck, kill the engine, just wait. And just thought, well, like, they're not going to be that far behind, so they're just going to catch up and come into the rear and- Depends on what the, what the, what are called? Yeah, we know like the old- current side. We know the old adage of if you're in a desert, you walk in a big curved line because you always have a dominant side. Same as paddling. After a couple of minutes. there's no one there and we were like maybe they're capsized so we turn the rib around and we go directly back on the course, nothing and we've gone probably a K back and that's probably too far and then it's the how do we respond now so we've got the guy on the boat who's like our risk advisor he's like we're gonna need to call this in and then we're like right we'll just track our line again one more time it says we're tracking a line again and we get into the end of the line we're like this is a dial in for help moment we get a glimpse of like an orange buoyancy aid and bomb it over and it's the boys and effectively what happened, they'd lost sight of the back of the rib and they'd done that kind of like dominant side turn. Because they can't see anything, they're going all the way And we saw their Strava that night, we were sat in our accommodation that night and we looked at their Strava and they'd done a full circle. It's only because they come back to full circle that we'd intercepted them. And otherwise, in every direction, 40k, nothing, you know. Would it help? This is just, if you're all on a bearing, wouldn't it help to have the bearing? The benefit of hindsight, Yeah, of course, yeah. It's just instantly in my mind, it's like, if you're on a bearing, you need something to measure there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, wild. So yeah, the seas can like that. Yeah, and you you didn't belong out there, these two little boats with a little rib. Yeah, especially with all the injuries as well. Yeah, know, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like the cap size and everything, it's just like the risk levels. but that was the thing, when we looked at the start line of Land's End and you tried to list all of the reasons we weren't gonna make it, there were tonnes. Yeah, so you gotta do it. Yeah, and the list of why this was gonna work was so small, but that little list was the most important bit. Yeah. And that's ultimately why we did it. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, what an achievement. Then you did seven marathons on seven continents. Is that the world? World Marathon Challenge. World Marathon Challenge. So I just did the Arctic Spine and one of the competitors was the winner of that last year. ⁓ Guy called Paul. ⁓ Good runner. Yeah, yeah, great runner. ⁓ How did you get on with that? And that must have been, I mean, it's just bad. The thing is I know people that done this stuff as able bodied people. To do it, to do it. The joke I always use is it was the worst seven days of my life bar intensive care. Just because it was so like, so we got back from John O'Groats and I had this kind of like, which direction am I taking here? Am I like taking the more known route which would be to try and go back into Paralympic sport? Or has this adventure thing opened up what I always wanted to do? Yeah, which is your adventurous It's exciting, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the answer was in the form of a phone call. And was the guy that runs the World Marathon Challenge, an Irish guy called Richard. And he was like, look, 180 people have done this in history, so not many. But we really need to show that from a disability point of view, it can be done. So I won't charge you to take part in it. And it's expensive. 38 grand. Yeah. I think about a lot more If you can commit to training and I was like, yeah, yeah, 100%. It was in 10 months time and I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do what I need to do. And he was like, brilliant, how many marathons have you done? And then there was like a really awkward like moment where I was like, right, how do I, how do I, what do I say here? Yeah, I'll do one tomorrow. Yeah, do I come clean and say, I've never done one? I did one on two legs, but that was before my accident. Or do I just say, I've not done one, but I'll do everything I can. So I went with a second option. Good. And he was like, all right, I'll, I'll. I'll speak to you soon. And so credit to him for kind of having faith He committed, yeah. Yeah, fair play. And then 10 months later, we're on this. But you've only got to talk to you. Well, I would say you've only got to talk to you to know that you're there for it. Yeah. I would say. But my missus thought I was nuts. I got off the phone and I found her and I was like, you'll never guess. And she was like, you don't do marathons. I was like, I know. So like 10 months later. And the one sort of rule he had for me was that. whatever you use for one marathon, you use for them all. like the Okay, to keep it the same. But the big obvious like, how are you going to do it one was Antarctica. Antarctica, yeah. Because I know that in all my experiences with snow, a wheelchair, even with like a mountain bike wheel setup, you get stuck within like 100 metres. Yeah, on some strategy. So we came up with this sort of like custom designed hybrid of a mountain bike with a... Like fat wheel type. Yeah, kind of, yeah, yeah. And then before we know it, you're on an Aleutian 76, which is this huge Russian cargo plane landing into Camp Novo, a Russian scientific research base in northern Antarctica. Doors opened, minus 30 floods in. And after a bit of FAF time, 10, 15 minutes later, me and the 20-something runners were on the start line. And Richard was like, you've got six hours because we've got to, we've got to, this whole... operations, logistical... Is on with the flights because the flights are awkward there aren't many and there's only one person doing it and they charge a lot. so Antarctica was by far the toughest. I finished five hours 50, so I had a 10 minute window before I was going to be... So there were three or four people behind me that just got pulled off the course. They're like, we have to go, we are really sorry. So you've just done that one marathon, you're knackered. and you get on that plane and they're like, right, we'll try and get as much sleep as you can because we're going to in Cape Town in six hours and we're going to start the next one, you know, tomorrow morning straight away. So like a 12 hour rest from minus 30 to plus 30. know, you've got all of the kind of like fatigue from day one and you're so far from the end. did you start there? Yeah. So you have to start in Antarctica because you could do all six. No, but logistically. And then you can't fly into Antarctica because of the weather. So you started there to get that bit out of the way. Crack on with the rest. So one then two finish marathon two and then the plan goes completely like tits up flight gets cancelled and Everybody is in this hotel in a lobby Gathered like waiting for Richard to come with like some plan and he turns up and he's like look There's nothing we can do about this plane being cancelled. So we've rebooked for the next flight It means that we're gonna now do five and four days So five continents in four days. that kind of whistle stop tour of the world was about to get a little bit wilder. So you go from Cape Town to Perth to Dubai to Madrid, ⁓ to Fortaleza in Brazil. And then seven days later, it's like 3 a.m. and you've landed in Miami and you're just like hanging on the edge of what's deprivation got wild. And it's just the final 26.2 miles. It's like three in the morning in South Beach, Miami, so everybody is wasted. Which made for a really fun, like American, wild end to this thing. And I just remember rolling across the finish line and just being, I thought I'd be like really proud, but I was just so exhausted. And then there's Richard giving me a medal that says World Marathon Challenge, and I genuinely don't think I knew who he was. I was so tired, I was like, Rango. So. Yeah, I've been there at the end of. Yeah, but yeah, you know what it's like. Yeah, yeah, the last one. Yeah, after just under nine days, you know, lot of that on my last 150 miles I was on my own. Yeah. And then to see like, I talk about this with the missus regularly, but I'm like, I had to get all my five personalities that had just been created through the race all together and have a conflab and be like, look. We're about to enter civilisation, we're about to meet real people. So we're have to get a grip of this, like all talking to ourselves. yeah, just when you, I got there and I was just like, my eyes are on stalks and I'm sleep deprived to hell, I've been tripping. Yeah, was just a wild experience. And same thing, get the medal and you're just like, Yeah, because I you expect that you're going to feel a certain way. I was expecting more emotion. I was expecting to get to the end, know, give a nice speech, you know, all this and all they got was, yeah, that was hard. Don't ever ask me to do that again. And that was kind of it. And then I got like marched off to the hotel. Yeah, it's a, I completely understand when you get to the end of something really hard and you just, it's never quite what you expect, but then you reflect on it in time. think on the flight home I was like, ⁓ my God. Yeah, I actually did that. Yeah, it's surreal. yeah, incredible. And it was like, for me, another lesson in how disability isn't a limitation. Obviously it has its physical impact. And it does. this lovely office is on the first floor. the first thing we did was team building where me and you were like shuffling up the stairs. you're like, Dan, this is what needs to So I think for me, like John O'Groats, Miami, it was all like this continual like confidence builder and self-belief builder. And like all of that had come from the failure to qualify for the Paralympics. So I'd lost the fear of falling flat on my face a little bit. because I learned that beyond that is something. Yes, and you could have seen that as a failure and you could have allowed that to then dictate who you are, who is the para-athlete who didn't make the Olympics and that's your identity, and then you could have let that snowball and become the thing. But you didn't. And that's what I want people to understand, especially from this conversation, this more than any, is that... Failure normally is a springboard for something amazing. Yeah, I mean like Antarctica is probably the best Chronologically, we're gonna talk about it. Anyway, yes follows. Yeah, we're heading into that, know that Didn't go to plan. No, no, but off the back of it has come something that will hopefully change more people's lives then me reaching the South Pole ever would have Yeah, if it yeah, there's You you kind of need the failure. Yeah in order to succeed going forward. Yeah, so I was in the main logistical hub called Union in Antarctica and I was speaking to someone who I've had such admiration for called Lou Rudd, who's like a former SAS, he was the RSM for 2-3 SAS, the reserves. So I'd met him through that world but then he's gone on to ski across Antarctica to do incredible things. And we're in this kind of, know, like main logistical base after we'd been exfil'd from our end point of our expedition. And I was so deflated. And he kind of like came up to me in the mess hall and he was like that, you know, a true expedition has more chance of failure than it does success. And he was like, remember that well done, you know. Yeah, but it's true. Like mountaineering. Yeah. Like we all know if you're doing mountaineering and I don't mean paying for a guide and I don't mean that, I mean if you're going on an expedition and you're doing everything and you're carrying everything, the chance of you succeeding are so low. Like really Especially on routes that aren't trod out or fixed lines and things like that. There's so much to go wrong with. The same as, and we spoke a little bit about this before, but we'll talk about it, your next expedition. the one in Antarctica, you're pushing the boundaries of what's ever been done. So you're working it out. It narrows the gap on success even more. Yeah, that's why I think the title of the expedition was Redefining Impossible. Yeah, Redefining And I think that kind of captured the spirit of... So we could have, so like, let's give the grand history of adaptive polar. Two people had skied what we call the last degree. So the last 111k, so you get dropped off here, you ski 111k to the south pole, I'm making it sound easy, it's not. And you know, it's been done, you know it is possible, the route's there, the framework blueprint is there. Yeah, logistics. So I could have, on one level, just gone, I'm going to be the first, so it was an American and then a Swedish guy who had done it in the previous 10 years. And I could have just gone for, I'm going to be the first British guy to sit, ski, the last degree. And it would have been like a big achievement, you know, hadn't been done by a Brit before. Yes. So from a marketing point of view, it's still quite interesting to sponsors and stuff. But that wouldn't have achieved your why, would it? It wouldn't have. Yeah. And it wouldn't have pushed the boundary. Like what you want to do and what like, you know, elite sport does in the 100 metre sprint is it's that continual, let's see that time try and drop as low as it can. And with expeditions and exploring, it's kind of like, how can you push the line further back? and you start there and then you go. So our initial idea was we are going to ski the last three degrees, get 300 and 30 K from drop off point to the South Pole. And we start planning and prepping. And then we're told that because of the way that Sestrugi, which is kind of like, you can imagine the Sahara Desert, but white and it's like that wave like pattern of. Yeah, they're lumps like of ice and... Yeah, and these lumps can be a foot high or they can be as tall as a vehicle and we were told that because of the the Sastrugi we can't drop you off here so we're gonna have to drop you off at two degrees from the south pole so 222k, okay fine. Classic shift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we had to kind of adjust to that. So it's me, Matthew, one of my closest friends who's like a photographer, videographer, high-level CrossFit athlete, Lucy Shepherd. Yep, who I know. Tim, know, incredible. This is Tim's picture by the way, in my office. waiting And I was in the Marines with Tim and obviously Lucy's his girlfriend so I've known both of them for So Lucy's a force of nature. She's an explorer who's done loads to redefine impossible for a female explorer. And then we had Dwayne Fields to finish the four who's the chief scout for the UK, is an explorer of colour. who has challenged the status quo. upper middle class blokes doing all the fun stuff. So that was our four. And they say, right, we're gonna drop you to 222K and we're on our flight on this little twin otter, twin prop plane to our start point. And we get to two degrees from the South Pole and we're all looking out the little circular windows, looking down and all you see is like that Sahara like pattern. Like the waves, yeah. And I'm like thinking in my head, where is this guy gonna land? Like I can't see anything that resembles flat. and the pilot radios through and he's like, look, we haven't really got anywhere to land so we're going to push it further out because they didn't want to come closer to the South Pole and take away from what we were doing. So suddenly we're like 40k's closer than we should have been. So they dropped us further away and the pilot's like, think I've found a spot and I'm still looking out the window like I don't know what he's seeing because all I'm seeing is not landable stuff. He's getting lower and lower, 100 foot, 50 foot, 20 foot and he was like, just brace for a hard landing. And that landing was hard, like everything came up in the back. Everybody was relieved when we just sort of like came to a stop. What about taking off? Doors open. Well that's the thing, so the doors open, kit's out the back. basically a lot lighter but not that much lighter. Yeah, four people's worth of kit, so he'd probably be four people, a hundred kilos. Yeah. A good chunk of weight lighter. And they've got the skids as opposed to wheels. Kits out, it's about minus 25, and then all of sudden the pilot's hanging out the window being like, good luck, I'm Cheers. And he's off. And then you suddenly get that sense of, are very alone right now. Yes. And it is just us four versus what is in front of us. the first night we dropped to elevation about 8,000 foot, so you have a night to settle in to get, you know what it's like, if you've gone from sea level to 8,000 foot, you're just going to feel a little bit more fatigued doing basic stuff. Yep. So we have a night and then we're like, right, day one, we'll have a shorter day just to get on the skis and then break ourselves in, but it'll be fine. And next day, know, temperature's probably hovering around minus 30 and we start. And I remember taking the first proper push of this expedition and the way that a sit ski works, it's kind of like a wheelchair without the wheels, but two skis, two ski poles. You kind of lean forward. So I would like use my head to bring my torso forward. you plant those poles and you're almost doing like a tricep extension. Like, yeah, like a lat pull down into a tricep extension to mush, to go forward. Anywhere else in the world, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, you push, you slide and you slide and you have a recovery period a bit like a rower does as they bring the oars forward. Yeah. Even if you get six inches or something, you're making progress. Yeah. And you get into like a flow state of that. And I remember taking that first push and we've been told by lots of people that the snow on the Antarctic polar plateau is really different to anywhere else in the world. And I thought it was like an inside joke. And I take that first push and as soon as my poles are out of the ice, my six key stops. It doesn't glide a fraction. So I reckon per push I was getting six or seven inches. And I was like, this is going to be insane. I was like, this is going to be like so much harder. So Mike Tyson, everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face. I think that first day I was like, we did 10 hours of skiing. We skied once we, because obviously the distance we're trying to do is straight line, but we couldn't do straight line. We're navigating around, you know that. So once we straight lined our distance, we did 9K in 10 hours. So we did less than kilometre an That's it was still impressive. A reality check of like, how hard you think it's gonna be, how hard it really is. And like after that 10 hours and putting the tent up and start going through the admin of melting. And like you said, you know the admin that comes with something like this. There's a lot. Yeah, and it's not that you get your tent up and you get your head down and you relax. You've got to start melting these huge blocks of snow for your food, for your water. You're preparing yourself, recovering from the day and prepping for the next day. And it's just like a routine that you get into. But the routine that the landscape was throwing at us was that as we're climbing towards the South Pole, which is at 9,000 feet, the temperature gauge was dropping. So minus 25, minus 30, minus 35. The Sastrugi was, you know, I think the thing I struggled with was that as far as the eye could see in every direction, it didn't look like it was improving. So you knew that you were battling through the same No, it's just a never ending, you can just see for a long, long way, can't you? And then you'll know. Yeah, and I was a desolate. You know, if you were taking on a mountain ridge line or you were on a run through your town centre, in moments where I was struggling, I would always pick a point. Yeah, pick a point. Get to the tree. Get to the lamppost. Get to the good lap rock. And in Antarctica, you cannot do it. No, you have to do it on time. Yeah. So we were doing 55 minute shifts with five minutes of break. And I think it's fair to say that by 55 minutes, everybody was ready for the break. And you could just see across the team of four, it's not just So that's what I was going to ask. What I was going to ask was, it must have been interesting for you because I'm very sure they were finding it super tough. They quite a lot of weight, didn't they? Yeah, everyone was carrying weight. Yeah. And when you see able-bodied people on skis barely making any progress, then... Because I've watched it. I watched you do it and I've seen them skiing and I was like... That's, there is no glide. You're dragging big loads. And you could hear it. Yeah, friction. And obviously there were lots of times where on my own I couldn't have overcome some of the lifts and elevations. You think of a plateau, and in your childish brain, plateau means flat, right? Whereas you would just climb for a couple hundred metres, and suddenly you're going into this of almost like valley in the middle of Antarctic wilderness. And where we'd been dropped, we'd been dropped on a non-traditional line because what they were most concerned about was that on the traditional route, it's a headwind predominantly. And they were like, your feet are going to be really... So for me, like I can't... They were worried about the cold. Yeah. The massive risks for me were like frostbite. That's a really good point. if my feet start developing frostbite, I could not tell you. If I broke a toe, I would not know. And that's mad to think. But their biggest risk was that... with a, you you get something called polar thigh, which is where, you know, the- Because where you sit, how you're sitting. Well, no, no, no. So as you're skiing, you, so you as an over-body person, if you're skiing into a headwind and that headwind is 10 hours of hitting the same spot, it'll, you know, kind of like almost a frostbite on your thigh. For me, they were really worried that my whole, you know, front of my feet, front of my shins, my knees would be so exposed to a headwind the whole time. So what they did was they dropped us on a different line where it was more of a crosswind. where there was a bit more shelter from immediate frostbite. But it meant that we were kind of being dropped into the relative unknown. Yes. ⁓ And also that the features that you're skiing into are at a funny angle, which then makes it even tougher. And the sit ski, soon as the land Because everything's wind. Yeah. Wind created. As soon as you're on a camber, that's what I That sit ski would want to lean and I'm there trying to struggle with my balance to push myself back up. So I'd be clipping into like Matthew or to Dwayne or to Lucy to kind of get that assistance over a lip or to, you know, cause I'll admit it was the hardest physical thing I've ever done. I just, mentally I was struggling mentally. I was like, this is so much harder than I thought, you know, and it was the fear of like, you know, I always said that it was never about the South Pole. It was about the message it sent. It's about doing what you could. Yeah. And encouraging other people to like redefine impossible in their lives. And then after a week, you know, we've made fraction of the progress we should. The whole plan was 20 days, 20. So had 25 days worth and we thought 20 days we're going to do this. After seven days we sat down as a team and reflected on the calculator and every day we were averaging 10 or 11k as opposed to 20 and we were like right well there's a couple of decisions here. We're not going to make it with what we've got. So do we call for resupply and get some more supply so we can keep going for longer? Yeah we called up. $28,000. And we were like, I was going to... So that was a no. Option two was we just carry on knowing that at some point we're just going to run out and fail anyway. Or option three was like, know, do we make the decision that we stepped into the unknown and we gave this a good go? And, you know, you could see after a week that physically everybody in the team had started to deteriorate. And... That was a really hard decision to make and I remember when we made the decision, I was like, I just need a bit of time. So I got out on my sit ski, pushed off about 20 metres from the camp and got my phone out because we were using Starlink and I just recorded a message and it was the one time that I only did like, every other day I was like, this is day one and I do like five takes because every take I was like, you look like a right knob. And I'm so like, I'm so, what's the word? Yeah, like self-debate, like I could pick holes in myself left, and centre. So I'd record things multiple times. On that final day, I was like, this is a one take thing. I remember just getting that camera out and almost like Because you weren't rehearsing it, it was coming from the I was fighting back tears to say, like, I'm really sorry that we're not going to make it. And I was sort of like apologetic to myself, but also to, I felt like we'd let people down. that you definitely didn't. that's how it felt. was like, course. Yeah. But you know that now. Yeah. And then I got back to the tent, I posted it and I didn't look at my phone. You know, we had two days before the flight could come in and pick us up. And in that two day window, like the messages we were getting through was like, you know, do not think you fail. Yeah. My son is currently in hospital and he's followed your journey. Thank you so much. And two days later, this flight picks us up. and we were meant to be getting taken back to base camp and suddenly we were like flown forward to the South Pole. Amazing, And it's because the organisation that had done all of the logistics were like, we want to give you that. Yeah, take you there. Yeah, because, you know. Which is great. And it was. And nice for you guys as well little bit bittersweet to be like, we're here but we didn't get here as we thought. But at the same time I was like, bloody hell, like the version of me back in hospital who had just lost his sense of identity and just lost the love of his life. That's what he thought was love his life. However many years later we'd be sat at the South Pole. You know, I never would have believed you. And I think it shows. No, and am I right in thinking, because a lot of people think this, the able-bodied version of you probably wouldn't have thought you would have belonged there anyway. No. Because it's a... No offence to anyone. It's a posh person's thing. Yeah. Seen as that, it can be. It's like, yeah, it's so... It's thing you pay huge amounts of money for. 300k. That expedition cost 300k. And it's only because of the disability element that I stood a chance. If AbleBodyMe had gone to the same sponsors and said, I want to ski to the South Pole, they'd have been like, you're just like everyone else that's skied to the South Pole. Whereas suddenly there's a bloke with a spinal injury saying, I want to do something that's never been done before. And suddenly these companies are like, yeah, we want to... But the good it's doing... If it helps one kid in hospital, like who's suffered an injury or ill or anything, it's worth it. Because money gets wasted here, there and everywhere and all sorts of things. Wars, business, like silly spending, all kinds of crazy things. so how important it is that you go and do those things way outstrips anything else. Like even if it was one. And a question I had and we may as well do it now. for you later was do you get messages from people saying you've changed my life or you've made me think about this in a different way and make things, because you must get. I get, so like, know, for a job now, I fell into being a speaker. Yeah. Not because of ⁓ a desire to be on stage or have attention. or for money. No, to help people. was to help people. Yeah, it's clear as day. You know, you wouldn't be doing any this. And for me, like, there's nothing better, you know, getting a nice testimonial from whoever saying, Darren was fantastic, blah, blah. It's always nice to see. And you put that on your website and it's like a little bit of like a, you know, hire me type thing. And that's great. But what means more to me is getting like a message on Instagram or Facebook or whatever from somebody that was in the audience who will say like, I... I didn't put my hand up to say it, but I just want to say, and the amount of people that send those messages that have just been diagnosed with cancer, have just lost a partner, have just had a life-changing injury, you know, and I can empathise with them and they know that I understand that and vice versa. And that is... You have the lived experience. And that's why it's important that you do do things. Yeah, and one of the first sort of bigger talks I gave was for Huel, you know, the sort of like drinks brand. And a guy, as I was leaving to go out to my car, a guy like ran up and sort of like tapped me on the shoulder. And he was like, I just wanted to say thank you. And I was like, dude, no worries. And he was like, if you hadn't been here today, I decided to take my life tonight. This is what I mean. And he was like, you. I was like, I just want to say thank you. Now he's like, I've got nothing to moan about. but before I could sort of like... process what he just said, he'd like gone back in and I was just in this cut like in a lobby of Huel just like emotionally, am I gonna cry? Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? Yeah. But that's why you do what you do, that's why I do what I do. 100 % yeah. Yeah, it's the same as you saying I didn't start talking until this happened, it's the same as me, I didn't start talking until I started helping people and... because there's a purpose to do it. I wouldn't say you would pick to do this. I can't think of any other reason you would pick to do this. never thought I'd be sitting here talking to you. Yeah, it's quite exposing. To be the host. See, I think with the podcast, your job is harder than my job. I think it's more pressure in a way to not be the guest, to be the person. I think I feel a... I'm not going to call it pressure. I feel like I have a duty to make sure that's why I decided to do it as well as I could to start. And you know, I'll constantly improve and evolve and, ⁓ but I want to do you justice. Do see what I mean? I want you to come in today and to say exactly what you want to say and get across for the people you help. ⁓ so yes, I would agree it is difficult, but then I've had people sit in sit where you're sitting who haven't done as much public speaking as you and stuff like that and they find that really difficult and that's exactly what I find difficult. I find public speaking horrendous but I make myself do it because I know later down the line if it's one person a month who goes ⁓ yeah that's really helped me then it was worth it. And you may never know. That's the reality of it. No, you may never know. But the amount of messages I'll get a year later from someone going, ⁓ that thing you did, years ago, really helped me. I'm like, bloody hell, where did that come from? Yeah, amazing. So you didn't make it. Didn't make it. You didn't make it. Then you got to go to the South Pole. that, did you have fear of failure before it? Pressure, I think, yeah. I think I felt pressure because it was the biggest financial thing I'd ever done. Yeah, it's a lot. And you've gone to British Airways, you've gone to Canada Goose and gone, we're going to do this. And you've got to believe it. I think you've got to believe it. But also, I really did appreciate the fact that the impossible element was a strong possibility. Yes. But that doesn't mean that it didn't hurt when it didn't go to plan because You build that image, where do want to be? A year from now and you get this image of you at the South Pole having just done something incredible. So it was hard to process the fact that it hadn't gone to plan, but I think it reaffirmed to me, I think it was so hard, it was so exposed, landscape, physically, psychologically, you were kind of like, every minute was a battle, every push, every six or seven inches of a push was a battle. And every push, the only reason that I kept going was the greater purpose behind it. I think if I was doing that expedition just purely for me, for ego, for a world record that I genuinely couldn't give a shit about, I would have given up. But for me, every push was like, come on, remember the people you're doing it for. And for me, it was the people that are on journeys that have faced trauma that have... almost lost hope because I remember being in Normally because they got a bigger why. Yeah. Or they've got a why. And even in those seven days, I was thinking of like, why aren't you like, you're here to help people. So what's come off the back of this whole expedition and it not going to plan is probably the thing that will have the biggest impact on other people's lives. I got on the flight home from from Chile and in my head I was like, I know what I'm doing when I get home. So we set up. we have set up the redefining impossible foundation. Because I went to all of our sponsors and I wrote this really apologetic email saying I'm so sorry that I let you down. Almost like I'm sorry I let you down. But you know what? To me it reaffirmed the why behind the expedition and that is to help people that have faced trauma to overcome it and to do that through adventure and community. So we set up the foundation to do just that. we'll run our first two trips this year. all of those sponsors that were on the South Pole, when I emailed them, were kind of like, how can we support you in this new endeavour? Yeah, of course, because it wasn't about the outcome. It's what I always say about mountaineering, it's what I always say about races. The journey is the important The outcome is, if you get a summit, it's the icing on the cake. Great. If you don't, you still try. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ Yeah, for me, it's taken the evolution of the story. which is kind of like, think it's so, you can fall into the trap of being like, look at me, I went to Antarctica, you should be inspired by this, you're in hospital right now. But it doesn't appreciate the fact that the guy or girl in hospital watching that on Instagram might not have the friends that me and you have or the network that me and you have. The people that take you from that vulnerable spot and help to rebuild you, the capes of the world, the mats of this world. So the foundation, Like, I couldn't think of anything I'd be prouder to do than to go into hospital and meet a young person, guy or girl, and say to them, look, you know what, I know how this feels, you know, I can talk with you about this journey and what's ahead, but when you're ready, there is an opportunity for you here to go and do something that will reaffirm to you how capable you still So is that the big purpose behind the foundation? Yeah. Is to basically have something where people can come and do... do not just extraordinary but great activities outside, pushing out the comfort zone. Yeah, I mean that's just going to be incredible for anyone that gets part I think you want to take them, first two years post-injury are so critical. Define your life. It can define your life. Whether you become the guy that you said, is, I used to be the paraperson but it didn't quite work out, or I used to be a runner then I had an accident and now... I'm just seeing out the rest of my kind of time. You can take them from that critical point of which direction are you taking and you can just show them how capable they still are. And if you can go and... There's just a bit of light, isn't there? Yeah, yeah, for sure. In a dark period where there's light. actually, yeah, which is great. know, I think the problem, the challenge of rehab is you kind of don't know what you're rehabbing for. Yeah, yeah, where are you going? Yeah. Whereas I think if you go in and say, Dan, 12 months from now, me and you are going to be on... kayaks in Norway below a thousand foot waterfalls and I need you to be ready. You you've got that thing and suddenly when you're balance practice in physio where they're throwing a ball at you and you're like why am I doing this? You're like right yeah this is for Darren in the kayak kind of thing. Yeah amazing. Awesome. Yeah man. Yeah. You're gonna get involved. Yeah yeah I definitely am mate. I would happily get involved in anything I just think it's ridiculously inspirational. Yeah. I mean, so what are the things you've got coming up? Busy being a dad now. So dad of two, we adopted two beautiful children. Mac who's two, Isla who's now five months old. She arrived five days after I got home from Antarctica. Wow. And so if we'd taken the option to extend the expedition, if we'd had $28,000, I wouldn't have been home for when she came home us. And how has... being a dad changed your risk management? Very good point. I think my accident changed the calculus a little bit. there's less, I think the old me was far less risk conscious. Whereas everything we've done since, think risk has been something that I flagged before we do it. It was before I think. You just do it, yeah. From the outside looking, it seems like you've been, having watched the Antarctica one, it looks like you managed it really well. I think, know, overall. And it sounds like the Lands End to John the Great was as well. Yeah, apart from maybe the Irish Sea Crossing. Apart from the Irish Sea Crossing. But you had things there. At the boats were there. Yeah, exactly. Some guys would just be like, So you're obviously managing things really well. Which is why I think you're going to be able to build something big. Because you need that. You need the reason and the why. But you also need the management skills and making sure things don't go... You can only manage it so much but you're a really good job. Okay, so personally... So one thing that I wanted to talk to you about before I met you today was your family. Because I see in front of me a guy who clearly had good people around him. But then we came in here today and then you told me something that I knew nothing about and I wondered if you wanted to touch on that. Because I think that's a really important point. also defining as well, especially now you're a dad. Yeah, so this is also Mental Health Week I think that we're recording this. My dad took his own life four years ago and he fell into the category of the probably don't show it, bottle it up sort of thing. So from the outside world if you'd met him you would not think anything was wrong. And underneath the surface and this exterior was somebody who was struggling with depression, struggling with, you know, my mom and dad separating, struggling with his son being injured. And then obviously like we all get thrown into COVID and everyone locks down and suddenly isolated as well. And I think it was in that isolation that he, you know, really struggled to find the hope and the light. And yeah, and one day my sister calls me and it's that kind of classic, you know, you know, all right, sis, yeah. what's up and she just said those two words it's dad and for some reason I just felt like I knew what was coming next and she was like I think I need to come over and tell you something and I was like no you just tell me now and she said what you had happened that he'd taken an overdose and he was found in his apartment he hadn't turned up for work and yeah that was fucking shit that was horrible yeah because and I was so thankful that the last time I saw my dad we were very we're not we weren't like the I love you types, know, kind of like unspoken. Yeah. And the last time I saw my dad was the day before he took his life and he'd looked after my dog for me, border collie, nuts called Murphy. And I picked him up from my dad's and he put Murphy in the car and he just went to turn and walk straight back in without really being, he was like at night. And I remember just feeling compelled to, to like wind down my window and shout at my dad and be like, ⁓ and he turned around and I was like, you know, I love you. And he was like, I love you too, son. and then he walked in and I never saw him again. So there was something that compelled me in that moment to say to my dad that I loved him. But also there's now the regret that, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, I would have been like, don't go in, come and stay with me tonight, sort of thing. And you know what that's like. But you had no idea. Yeah. so what, you know, what you're supposed to do. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? If people don't talk at all. Yeah. you know, sometimes it's very easy and especially for old school guys like it sounds like he was to just mask everything. Yeah. I mean, I lost some Marines who you just, you knew they had snags, but you on the face of it, they're just like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm Clearly not. And now I work with people. at summertime, a lot in crisis, ⁓ I hear it all the time. And it's just, yeah, it's just super difficult, isn't it? Then what? The way I look at these things, especially grief, is that you have to learn something from it, So then, I suppose for you with your own kids now, it's being more open, making sure you communicate really well, all those things. And it's all like the little I love yous. It's just saying. Yeah, just so that they know even if they're having the worst day ever, they've got you. And I struggle to, I think this is the thing with mental health, it? I think when you're coming at it from a good, healthy place, when you're in a good spot in your life, you struggle to understand. was walking, I was walking a dog and, know, Mac is only two, so he doesn't walk great distances. He sat on my lap and I'm wheeling along. And I was just like, you know, all the things that my dad missed, like me getting married, me having kids. And I was looking at my two year old son and I was like, can't imagine not being around for those things. And how, you know. Yeah, and I struggle to understand why dad couldn't see the positives that were out. But that's because I'm coming at it from a healthy state, whereas the challenge of mental health is that when you're struggling, not much makes sense. No, it's a really confusing place to be. And if you've never been equipped with any form of tools or anything to bring yourself back around, hard to get out of it. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, but you know, from losing dad came speaking, you know, I... Was that the catalyst Yeah, yeah, 100%. 100%. I was getting asked to do talks after John O'Groats and I was saying no. And my dad happened between John O'Groats and the seven marathons. And like, I remember losing dad. And then the next time that something came in, I was just like, say yes. So I said yes. And I kind of just, I think in my first talk, I was like, I think I got on stage and I was like... I don't know, because I hadn't spoken about my own journey out loud. So think my intro was like, hi, I'm Darren, and I genuinely don't know whether I'm going to up in tears on this stage or not. And I've never really spoken about my dad on stage because I feel like he deserves his own 45-minute keynote. It's not like a little part of my story, it's a huge part. So I tend not to touch on it. I always start... Maybe it's not the right time yet. Yeah. And maybe that will come later. Yeah. That's part of this journey that we're all on, it? It's reframing of grief, essentially. And normally there's a right time. And it's the same with me. All my issues stemmed from grief. It took me 16 years this year since the lads died on Herrick 12 in Afghanistan. And I only started talking about it last year. You know, like it's a long time, isn't it? Yeah. So, So when there was something I wanted to say about this whole thing is that change takes time and it takes patience. And if you're having a terrible time and you've started working on yourself, that patience and time is like, it's the thing you've got to understand. Yeah. Because, you know, Today's been one of those days. I went and had a coffee with a guy in a local, just literally round the corner, local coffee shop. And I've spoken to him once and he now knows my name. And he was like, oh Dan, I want to talk to you about something. And I was like, okay. And this is what's strange about today. And he was like, oh well, I just wanted to ask you, my wife's daughter died, oh she killed herself. three months ago and he was like, and she's always struggled with mental health but there's nothing we could do. So I just wanted to talk you about that and I was like, and then you come in and it's just like, it's all around us. And it was the same with them. There's no one's fault whatsoever, but he was like, we just had no idea. And it's the same thing, that communication thing, like checking in with people regularly. Just. Ring your mum, ring your dad, ring your mates. Just have a chat with them now and then see how you're doing. Yeah, no, I'm a big believer in that. And I think only when you go through some experiences like suicide or miscarriage, me and my wife went through IVF five times, miscarriages, adoption. It's only once you start talking about this stuff that people are like, oh no, I'm adopted. oh yeah. like TJ's friends, like some of her friends had had miscarriages and she had no idea. No, a lot of people don't talk about Yeah, she ran the London Marathon a couple of years ago for Tommy's charity for people that had lost children. And was only once she put that up on Facebook and she was like, look, I'm trying to raise money for this. She was getting messages from her mates being like, yeah, I had a miscarriage a year ago, so I'm going to give you 50 quid. TG was like, I didn't know you had a miscarriage. Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? So I think you've just got to talk openly about stuff. Yes. And the clinical psychologist that I had in rehab, she was like, the one thing you do not do is bottle this up. No. Yeah. Just... She was like, get out a pen and paper and write about it. If you don't want to talk to me, you'll come and talk to me. So he asked me... I try not to do too much advice giving. One, that this particular situation sounds so raw, but I said, because he's just looking for help for his wife. I said, eventually you want to get to a place of service, right? Which is what you're doing. Because in grief, you need to reframe that grief, right? So I said, eventually once she's come to terms with it and it's going to take time, like I said, time and patience, eventually maybe she should look at something, you know, help young people, you know, who want to commit suicide or have health problems and things, do some volunteering and things like that. Because service... Not only does it make you feel good, it also brings you back to reality. And it's that thing of, and this is why think podcasts like this are so important, because someone can be having the worst day ever, but you go and like, and I'm in the fortunate position, I talk to people all time, so I know the reality. But some people are so bottled up in themselves that they think the whole world's on top of them and that it's, the... nothing else could go wrong type of thing and then they end their lives. But the reality is, everyone out there has got problems. There's things going on for everyone. It's just understanding you're not the only person having problems. That's why it's important to talk. I think respecting the fact that how you feel right now is not how you will always feel. No, no. This too shall pass. Yeah. And if it's too good, that'll end too. The journey is a roller coaster, man. It's up and down. I just think if people had a few more tools and people to reach out to, then life would be a bit easier. I think it would be unfair if we didn't talk about your wife, because she's clearly an absolute legend. She is. The love story behind that is when I was 17, she was 17. My first job and her first job was at Pizza Hut. And I was a waiter, she was a waitress and she was the waitress that like, if I saw her name on the shift board, I was like TJ's in today. And she had like, the outfit was like black trousers, black top. I will happily admit that she had a great bum in those black trousers. But as a 17 year old, I had no confidence or game and no self belief that if I said to her, do you want to go out on a date? She would actually say yes. So. then all of a sudden I'm off to uni, she's off to uni and then she's the kind of like the what if girl. Like what if I just said, I fancy you, could we go out? And then 10 years later, you know, she's gone to musical theatre and she's got loads of talent. She's the talented one of the two of us, I would say. And my accident's happened, it's two years after the breakup that was in hospital and that wrecked me, like romantically. And then I'm just ready. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna get on Tinder, I'm ready to open myself up and I go down to visit a mate who lives in Oxford. So nowhere near where I actually live. And I get up Tinder, so like, who's in Oxford type thing. I shit you not, one of the first people that comes up is TJ. And I was like, show him my mate. was like, oh, this guy, used to really fancy her, but like, I think she was into bad boys. Turns out I was completely wrong. And I swiped and nothing. And I was like, ah, there you go. reaffirms my suspicion I'm not her type. You're not bad boy enough. She hadn't seen me. The next day my profile comes up on her phone she swipes and she messages me and she says like fancy seeing you here blah blah blah blah blah start messaging and then we're like right well you live down in where was she like West London I'm in Shrewsbury so let's meet halfway for a date and we met halfway for a date and for me it was like yep you are still the person that I remember and then we just did this long distance bit for a thing for a bit And then when COVID hit, it was like, right, do you want to come up here and be with me? And we did. it was trial by fire. You're like, course. Yeah. Yeah. Dropped in. And dude, it's like this. That's the rest is history kind of thing. She's so supportive. She knows that these things mean a lot to me more than just like selfish desire to like go and do things. that there's always a bigger purpose, service behind it. love that service though. Yeah, service is so important. It's also the end of recovery. Yeah. So for anything. Yeah. So grief, alcoholism, drugs, all sorts. Service is normally the last piece where you kind of put all the puzzle together. Yeah. No, I love that. That's so true. So true. And then in her, she's someone who, you know, like every bloke listening to this, woman has probably been affected in some way by like miscarriage or something like that and In her I saw this really I didn't respect or appreciate how Mentally strong she was you know like because her body was like she her body was letting her down you know like she wanted nothing more than to to have a baby inside her and I you know you both feel it when it was on the the bad news side of things but all I saw in her was a woman that was like, right, I won't forget what I want and that is to be a mum. And I remember after our fifth round, she was like, if this one doesn't happen, we're gonna put those adoption paperwork straight in. And we did and that's how we got our two kids who, I said to you before we started recording, I could not love anymore or any less. No, and you know my feelings on that. I've brought up kid who wasn't my own. My father left before I was born. I don't see it like that. see it as, it doesn't need to be. It's amazing and good on her as well. Yeah, she's incredible. I love the moment where I'll be like, I've had an idea. And she just, see the very, yeah, yeah, yeah, see the very James O'Lier role. And she'd be like, go on then. And she, you know, I think in my old partner, what I would have had, had she stayed with me, was somebody that probably tried to take away from the spirit of who I wanted to be. And in TJ, I found someone who loves that spirit and like allows the flame to build. Yeah, and for me, with my girlfriend Hannah, she supports me as well. And she supports me in everything that I do. And some of it's very extreme. There's a financial hit to doing this life as well. I could be, you know, I ran businesses before, made good money, and I could just go and do that. But I don't because I believe in what I'm doing and I want to help people. But that comes at a knock for us as well. So it's... Having someone on your side is massive. You can't put a price on it. me it was such an important thing. We've been together a while now but at the beginning it was important to be with someone who understands me and knows why I do what I do and doesn't just see it as bit of a hindrance. I mean even more so for you. But you're also an amazing guy. I always say that my story without the people around me wouldn't be much to tell. would mine. Yeah. that's... Neither would anyone's. Yeah. And that's what makes it... It's a team sport. Exactly. Success is never like a solo endeavour. You know. ⁓ So what would you say to a young person who's struggling? It's a list of things I would say to do. I think as a starting point, push yourself out of your comfort zone. I know that you might already be struggling, but the most important way to grow that sense of... mental toughness and resilience is to push yourself out of your comfort zone, do the uncomfortable thing. Because I think you want to show yourself what you're capable of achieving. I think if you're struggling, it's important to open up, not to bol it up, let people know because like your support network are there. And if you've got the right friends around you, they're the friends that will listen to you and they've got your back. And I think that's important. And there's an element of finding your tribe there. I think you and I have found our tribe. whether that was in the military or the mountains or our networks now, you've got to surround yourself by like-minded people that have got the same ambition. I always remember, like the clinical psychologist, I wasn't ready to talk to anybody. So I got out a pen, I got out a paper and I started to write. That's why I make people journal. So I think if you're already struggling, probably the right way of starting is to get out pen, get out a paper and... and express those emotions if you're not ready to do it to others. And just remember to pause, take a moment to reflect on what you should be grateful for, because it's so easy when we're busy, when we're stressed, when we're up against it, when life isn't going the way that we wanted it to, when we faced failure or setback, to just see that and we're so blinkered to what's either side. And it's when you lower the blinker that you, and for me, there's an image, I to send it to you, which is the day of my accident. Yeah, please do. And someone took it from the roadside below and you see World's End, these red mountain rescue jackets and I'm somewhere on in that. And that photo became something that really helped me reset perspective whenever I felt like I was at my lowest point. I'd be like, you know, look at that. Be grateful for how lucky you are in an unfortunate circumstance. Mine's over there. Yeah. I'll let you read it. Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's there. I'll read it. It's a citation of the medal I got. But that for me is my lowest point in my life. Super hard, couldn't deal with it, couldn't even look at it for years. It's only recently that I can... But now it's like... Now it's purposely in front of my face. Yeah man. Yeah. Because for exactly the same reason you're saying, because I need that reminder of where I've come from. And that is where I've come from. But also that's the gratitude for also being here because the people in that story are not here. That's part of it as well. Anywhere can people find you? Darren Edwards on Instagram, Facebook. I don't do TikTok. That's about it really. I downloaded TikTok and I was like, am I ready to do another thing? And I was like, I'm not. I don't think you need to. So just on those two probably. Yeah, amazing. Anything else you want to add? No, thank you for having me dude. It's It's absolute pleasure. Genuinely, absolute inspiration. No, likewise mate. Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. It's not about this, not about the accident. It's your mindset around everything that I find is genuinely incredible. Getting up and staying same on the way in. Yeah, just the way we met. You wait till the way down. This is a fun one. Yeah, this will be the good one. Yeah, it's just... Yeah, I just find it incredibly inspirational. Yeah, man. Well, you've got your marine dagger behind me up here. And I think to use the analogy of a dagger and a knife, life's experiences should sharpen the blade. Yes, I agree with Those moments of adversity, we should use them to make that dagger even deadlier. Not that we want to kill anybody, but like... Yeah, commando daggers already. But yeah, I like that. No, thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks, dude. Legend. Thanks Darren. Pleasure man.