Latest / Atomic Rambo Podcast / Addiction Took Everything. The Mountains Gave It Back. | Andy Keavney

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Addiction Took Everything. The Mountains Gave It Back. | Andy Keavney · Atomic Rambo Podcast

• Dan Holder: I'm Dan and this is the Atomic Rambo podcast. And today we've got ⁓ Andy in. Hello, Dan. How are you, sir? Mate, I am And congratulations on being the first guest. Can I just say thank you? ⁓ I'm honoured to be the first guest on your mighty podcast. I'm sure it will be. It's great to be number one, man. Thank you. Mate, what a legend. And thanks for coming down. ⁓ It means a lot to me that people are willing to down. One, come and see me, because I like talking to people. It's best to see people in person, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And also, I think you get more out of people not having the screen. Although, with our work that we do, Zoom and stuff is actually pretty good. Yeah, mean, there was a suggestion of doing this by Zoom, but a lot of our work is done by Zoom. ⁓ That's got to be done because you the necessity of the logistics of the people that we deal with, they're all over the country which is fine but I'm much more open to having a face to face. You can see each other and we can just have a proper connection. 100 % mate. So let's, shall we reel back a little bit just so people understand who you are, where you come from. It can be as long or as short as you like. Cool. I'm Andy Keevney. Now, I was brought up in a little town called Lee, which is not too far from here. So I've traveled about 30 odd miles. So it's a little town in between Wigan and Bolton, but we don't talk about Wigan where we come from in Lee because it's a swear word. So just edit that out. So I was brought up in Lee, big rugby league town, mining town, cotton mill town, very, very Lancashire, know, lovely place to to live. lived there until I was about seven, been with mum dad split up. and then I moved to a town called Atherton, which is just going towards Manchester that way. It's a little town called Hagfold, was in his day, it was full of, it was great, it was community, but there was a lot of drugs, there was a lot of violence. Which is quite normal. Yeah, absolutely. those type of places. And I don't look back on that and think, ⁓ that was a terrible, because it was a brilliant time in my life. I bet you had a good time. It grins you, makes you know, the community. there was fantastic and I loved living there but there was a lot of fighting in between all the local towns and gangs and all that you you saw it going on but was just it was kids was playing out all day every day on our bikes on ramps just living the life you know and it was incredible so proper growing up proper growing up just getting covered in shit every day and just you know coming out the amount of times I ended up in hospital I cannot tell you I've broken nearly every bone in my body with that BMXing you know yeah as a kid loved it. I was the same BMXing down the woods I'd fall off rope swings regularly climb trees jump out the trees wear as many clothes as possible like double up on jeans yeah find biggest holly bush climb up an oak tree jump in the holly bush all that kind of shit. Staying out all day every day especially playing rock wars. at each other. It's just a great time you know and I look back on that now we didn't have phones it was absolutely brilliant you know we was just you look at it we were so much more present you know and these things that we carry around in our pockets are great but they've also got a negative side to them as well. Yeah 100 % I think it's difficult for young ones these days. Yeah absolutely. It's quite completely different. It comes so far so quickly as a species haven't we you know it's ridiculous how quickly things have moved. So from there, why after that? from there, was, I was just getting ready to leave school. It probably about a year before I was leaving school and I was, you you start thinking, what am I going to be doing? I'd done a course or I'd been done some work experience in like a local garage. So they sent me there and I, you know, that was an option. I was thinking, do I want to go and work with cars? And then we sat in my mum's front room and she just mentioned this advertisement in the paper about the army. Something pricked up and I like, that's not bad. And the only reason I did it really, if I'm being completely honest, was that I got a couple of days off school. ⁓ yeah, fair. Because I went to the Army Careers Office. So I did, and I went there, and then I ended up going, doing a few more of those meetings. Then I ended up going for doing like your pre sort of selection bit. Yeah. past that, don't know if I ever passed that. I was like 10 stone went through, was absolutely skinny, you know. But I passed it and I got through and they ended up putting me through into the Royal Corps of Transport. Sweet. At what age? That was junior leader, so was like straight from school pretty Super young, isn't it? Yeah, and that comes with its own problems. I don't know much about it because I didn't do that route but everyone that's, I mean it's super young isn't it Junior League? It's very young because you're literally fresh out of school. I think it was about a month. Because they can't do that now can they? I don't think so, no. Because obviously you can't sign until you're 18. So you've got that year gap and what they're doing with you in that 12 months was absolutely, sometimes it's barbaric, you look back and think, no wonder they can't do it. Crawling through the Absolutely, I've just battered for 12 months on getting beasted because we're in a little town called Chippenham or Cologne I think it's called, just outside of Bath. So it was surrounded by hills, beautiful part of the world, but not if you're a 17 year old lad. peak two, peak three, go. Running up and down these hills and just running across, because it was an old airfield, running across these airfields in brand new boots with, you've all got to do those as a squad, getting your blisters and running in the heat and all that, but they just pushed you to the extreme of what you could, you never did any of this in school. Pretty cool education when you're younger though. Yeah. And it's like a school about knocks and I didn't think I was going to get through that 12 months. know, many times I was on the phone to my mum in tears. I'm done with this. I'm this, but that's where it was. And that's where I think the problem, the first lesson of resilience really sort of struck home for me that you can do something. No matter what it is, if someone's telling you to do it and you've got the desire, you can push your body past something and you'll know more about this with what you've just done. Push your body past what you think is capable if you just convince yourself that you can do it. Yeah, and that's why I spend more time training my mind than I do my body. Yeah. Because that goes first. Yeah. It's always the first thing, isn't it? Yeah. And if you can train that to do, I mean, don't get me wrong, I can push myself sometimes too far and then you end up nearly dying on mountains and all kinds of things but if you train this before worrying about this, the legs, then you can get very far. I've always had a keen interest in like special forces and stuff and that's obviously the mentality that those guys are driven from is yes you've got to be fit but it's up there. ⁓ yeah, having it up here is more important than anything I think. Yeah, so that sort of 12 months was, it was testing, it was very, very challenging, but it made me go from like being a young 17 year old kid that really didn't know anything. He was just sort of pretty street wise, but outside of that, I'd never been anywhere. I'd never really traveled anywhere properly. So I started doing a bit of traveling. Were your eyes like, what's going on? Wow. It was like, can't even imagine that. Like I joined the Marines when I was at university. Wow. Yeah. So. So old was you then? 19. But there's a big difference between the age you're talking about and 19. Absolutely, then two years are massive I think because you're learning a lot about who you are. Yeah I was already quite happy living on my own and stuff like that whereas you've gone straight from home straight to that. Absolutely, I've been living with my mum for the last 17 years. Yeah I'm a mamma's boy as well. So you go from that into this environment where someone's absolutely kicking the shit out of you every single day and pushing you. And some of the things that we did were, you I mean back then things like regimental baths were still going. So you'd chucking people in a bath, and if anyone doesn't know what a regimental bath is, you basically get chucked in a bath with all kinds of bleach. all kinds of nastiness and you get washed down with a bass broom which was like you think about that now and it's just like is that really a thing did it happen and these were you know the old army days of bullying it was rife you know and then so after that it was like I did my driver training yep so obviously you need to your car license I did my bike part one part two and then off to home. It's the great thing about the RLC you come out with so many quals and I mean a lot of lads in the Marines do too but not everyone, whereas in the RLC, they really hammer that early, Absolutely. And I don't know if they still do that now so early, I think they probably will do. I think they do. But at 17 years old, I've got my bike license, my car license, and my HDV license, and it's like, wow, this is pretty good, this, you know? Yeah, because you could leave straight away and you can still get a half decent job straight after. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So then it was, in case of right, when we were getting posted too. And that was 5 Armoured Field Ambulance, which was in Munster. So we were on the same camp as the Grenadier Guards in Oxford Barracks, I think, if memory serves me right. And that was just right. You're at the real army now. is what you know. It's a bit of an eye-opener when you get there. the green machine then. Yeah, you're there and everybody's just on it. Everybody's getting pissed and it's like the drinking culture like I've never seen. Yeah. Obviously, when were growing up, I'd seen a lot of drinking. Did you drink much when you were younger? I drank, but I wouldn't say I was like a, you know, I was a young lad. So we went and got pissed. Yeah, pissing around, buying the free liquor bottles of White Lightning and sitting down the field. But it wasn't something that we were doing every single day, it more towards like you know probably 14, 15, 16 we started drinking a little bit but then when you join the army you realize what that culture is. Yeah just ramps up from there. Something like I'd seen. I got to Germany and I just couldn't believe how much of a culture that it was to and if you didn't join in you were shunned it was like you was one of the heads. Germany I've heard obviously coming from the Marines you don't go to Germany but my stepdad was in the Engineers, he also posted to Germany and he said exactly the same thing. It's just... Concerts, all kinds of things going on. Everything. Pretty loose. Getting into all kinds of trouble. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, and I fell into that because I was trying to keep up with the Jonesies, so to speak. And because I wasn't a big drinker, I was just having to throw myself in there. But then that was leading me to me getting into all kinds of trouble. know, I was getting into fights. I was going out. I was staying out later. there was incidents left, right and centre and you can just, I can think of just so many, but I don't want to incriminate myself in certain ones. I ended up once, and this is one of these stories where I'd been out, we'd been into the Tenner Bar, I think it was, which was like a big club in Munster, and I ended up, and I met this girl or this woman and we ended up, you know, I ended up sleeping with her and I woke up in the morning and I looked and there's a picture of a sergeant on the side on the bed stand and I was like... where am I? We're in the married quarters right, so in the the Pads area I didn't know, no idea. Well it all went a little bit here so... Not ideal. No no but this is the kind of trouble I was getting into and I then ended up two days after that I went out on another bender and I ended up driving around camp on the cobbles right so I'm in this one tonne ambulance or four tonne ambulance and I'm driving around the cobbles and it was very very slippy and I put my foot down and I've... sighted in towards the curb and I shaked myself because there's three women walking along with the prams I've had to try and slam on luckily I managed to stay in but she comes running over she's bashing the side of this ⁓ ambulance you could have killed us and I was like So yeah, you're right, I'm really, really sorry. I knew I was in trouble there. The guard from the side, from the... This is where it goes. So the guard comes and picks me up to march me down to double time, left, right, left, right, left, right. Turns out, who is it? It's the same guy that I've seen on the bed stand and I'm just like, ⁓ I'm in a predicament here. Turns out he never actually found out, but I was in there for like two days and I know that she was trying to get messages to me and it was just, this is the kind of chaos I was bringing into my life, right? Yeah. And it got to the point where- And you were only young, right? I was only young, I 18 years old, 18, just coming up to 19, so I was just informing who I am and I was just entering into this life of chaos. And the sergeant, he was a good lad actually, but he was on parade one morning and after a series of these events that just kept happening, was like, we need four volunteers this morning. This is something that we need. You're going to the Gulf War, Keevney you're one of them. And I was just like, I was on parade and I I was stood at the back, because think I've been in trouble to follow it the earlier night. I'm covering. my hand would have been like that anyway. Yeah, but he did it because he knew that it would help me out. So fair play to him. he was probably right. He was, because I needed to just dry out a little Any operation is going to help really, to give you a bit of purpose. So that was it. was transferred from 5 Armoured Field Ambulance across to 8 Regiments, 12 Squadron. What's 8 Regiment? I have no idea. Corps Transport. Okay, yeah. So they were the Royal Corps Transport boys in Munster. And so I left 5 Armand Field Ambulance. I've learned to be, I've trained as a medic, trained as a medic driver and I've done all the exercises with them. And then over to 12 Squadron. Yeah, and that's good job. It's a great job because they were driving these brand new wagons, the drops wagons. They'd only just been launched by Laila and Daff. So it's a brand new bit of kit, picked up its own load, dropped off its own load. It was pretty much unheard of really, so you could carry anything. You could carry ammunition, could carry food, water, whatever needed to be done. You just stuck it on a flat bed and you was off. So it gave you so much more flexibility as a division to transport stuff up. And that's what I spent the next six months doing. They flew us out there. Some got the boat out there and we met the ships. But essentially what our job was, we was picking everything up from Al-Jabal, which is the port in Saudi. the ships would unload everything and then we would then just be, we was constantly on the road for like four months. Like on mogs type of thing. Yeah. Just long sticks of loads and loads of wagons. We would drive that way for seven hours, turn left at a tyre, and then you're off into the desert then. And was just lot of nighttime operations where you're just following the convoy in front with the little white light on the rear differential. eyes going you know because you can't see properly and it was tough but it's that was like the making of you and there was war hadn't kicked off then we was just setting everything up. No you're just moving everything yeah. Yeah so we set up ammunition dumps, set up water dumps, we set up you know the whole logistics of that. whole I think people don't quite realize what goes into warfare and the logistics around it. Big operation. We used to talk about it quite a lot because obviously like my tour in afghan very different to iraq but i'm just point man out in the green zone, scrapping. That's it. I'm going out, coming in. But everything to support us has to get to where we were, which is a nightmare. That in itself must have been a hellish... But that's what I mean. mean, just for people to get the gear for us just to go out and scrap is a whole huge chain. Because they must have been on the fire when they were going in. Exactly. Like, where does it end? people realise how much goes into that end troop just going out having don't just turn up and then go out and have a scrap. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It's pretty wild. I mean, I suppose that's where we had the benefit because we didn't really, we wasn't really being Yeah, not at that time, but... But you've got to do all that in preparation just to enable them to have a fight, is just huge amounts of logistics. Even setting up a base is like wild. Well, was living at the beginning, but we was living in a tented city in Aldrabile, because that's where we were. But then obviously the further we was going out, it wasn't really realistic to stay there. So then we were just sleeping in the wagons and we were just on these massive, you know, some of them were like, you've been driving for 24 or 48 hours. On the go, on the go. And it was relentless, but it had to be done because you've got a time pressure, you've got a clock ticking, there's a war coming. And we was all aware of that, but I don't think you get it when you're You're an 18, 19 year old. Well, surely you're just like, this is what I'm doing, this is what I've got to do. It was a job that was... Can you really think that much outside of that when, to be honest, did they really know what was going to happen? No, nobody knew what was going to happen. I suppose the excitement of it could go off because there was all kinds of threats coming at us. No, I get when we was in the Tented City there was so many alerts because they had all these chemical warfare alarms. Yeah, NBC was big then. And the alarms went off so many times and they just kept telling us it was air fuel and we were like, you you get suspicious and think, are they just, You know, you was always putting your respirator on, just running about in that Blotting yourself. ⁓ my, just filling up with sweat and it's like, can we take this off? No, but you knew you had to do it, they're the drills, know, that's what we signed up for. Get that suit on. Yeah, I know it's around a little bit now, but they've pretty much done away with most of it, haven't they? Yeah. I think. Yeah. Yeah. The days that we did. I know you were before me, but I still, I think we were still doing the same drills when I joined. I can imagine you would have It's pretty minging. So that was, yeah, so it was like four or five months doing that. Yep. I got to train a guy up, a young lad called Jason. So we trained him up in the wagons. It was called a Battle Casualty Replacement. they basically took mine out of my core driver and took him out. And I got Jason in and just teach him how to use the wagons. And I think from memory, I think it was about two weeks that was with him. Might have been shorter. But on the day of the ground war starting, which was like January. What year, sorry? This was 91. 91, so the first golf, So we got there August, September 90, and come back sort of March 91. But then the ground war kicked off in... I should get this right, I should know. think it have been February. I forget dates all the time. And on the morning of this happening, this what happened was Jason got took back out of my cab and I got my original co-driver back and I was like, right. So Jason went two wagons behind me. We've been into Iraq. we dropped off the, we was driving multi-launch rocket systems. So we was dropping those off and it's like an armored vehicle that you just drop off. For whose systems were they? Yanks? No, they were ours. And you just watch them being fired off and it was incredible watching them at night. And what these things would do is, and I try and get this right, it's 60 bombs inside like a, it looked like a. It's just a pod, right? So you've got loads of these pods on the back of your wagon. I think there were 60 bombs in each pod. They would get shot out and then they would split into 644. And then they would land and they work on pressure and they explode and it takes out, I think from memory, a full kilometre square. So it's pretty intense what it does. ⁓ And we dropped off. It's mad when you think about it. We was carrying a shit ton of these and we even got driven into... ⁓ like a minefield as well, fully loaded. And it was just like, shit, what do we do? And at this point, there's like 10... Who's minefield? An old one or one that was laid? One that been laid. Yeah, that's what we'd been told. And we were like, right, what do we do here? We're pulling the trailer and there's 10 of us and we're all fully loaded. And this is like, we've got some serious kit on our backs here. If one of us goes, we're all gone. So we're literally, I think it was the corporal... one of you get out, walk in front of the wagon with a stick, you know, and it's just like, shit. And you've never, that feeling of fear, you know, cause you just- It hits home pretty quick, doesn't it? I am this far away from something. I don't know how we got out of that. I really don't know. But that's just one of the incidents where it's sort of that really hit home. But anyway, this morning we've gone into Iraq, we've dropped off, we're coming back and we stop off for a piss. Everyone's having a piss stop. And I think we might've just crossed over back into Saudi at this point. And- Jason, God love him, he's two wagons behind me and we've jumped out the wagons and all I've heard is this massive explosion. I've been trained as a medic, so everyone's screaming for a medic, it just kicks into autopilot, just threw my rifle down and I picked what I had up, nearest case I had, and I just went running. And as I'm getting to the wagon, can see the wagon, the windscreen's been blown out. and you can just imagine what it's like. been blown out so something's gone off inside. Yeah, it's not actually gone. It's virtually been exploded. There's been some charge gone off. an explosion in the cab and what's gone on is he's jumped out of the cab for a piss, seen one of these bomblets, didn't know what it was and just thought he was going to keep it as a souvenir. As he's jumped back in the cab, it's exploded because it's worked on pressure so he's hit the desk. That's just... That's just a young person not thinking. And that's all it takes. That's It's just one thing that, you know, he probably thought he was just keeping a souvenir. He had no idea what it was. I'd never seen one. If I hadn't seen that, I wouldn't have known what it was. Yeah, what was it? It's one of the bumlets. Yeah, like a... Yeah, it dropped. So I've got there and the driver's holding onto the steering wheel for dear life. He's just in shock and none of this has hit him. And I'm like, the fuck, how has that happened? One. best way I can describe it. It's gone like angled away from him. everything. When you see someone throwing knives at a circus, it'll look like yeah. Directional. And I've gone in and it's all in the headlining, all the strap was in the headlining above him and he's just sat there in shock. And I'm trying to get his hands off the steering wheel because he obviously... All I can remember from that is the smell is the cordite, that smell. That HE smell, which is, they say smell is the thing that sticks with you forever. back. Yeah, never forget that. On a hot dusty day, I'm like, oh, Afghan. Absolutely. Just like that. So I've got him out of the cab, jumps in and Jason is in the passenger seat. and he's not in a good way. So I'm trying to do the best that I can with all the skills that have been taught, field dressings, patching up. But there's just a lot of damage that's gone on. So we've then ended up trying to get him out of the cab, him down, and then we're outside of the cabin, we're giving him, trying to keep him going with CPR. And it felt like I was there for a long time, know, trying to keep that going. We put an airway in, his lungs had filled with blood and unfortunately I was fighting a losing battle but I wasn't up for giving in, you know. No, no, you could just keep going. Just in that zone and it took one of the guys to... and I can't remember if I either got pulled off but I just remember somebody saying to me, Andy, he's gone. And at that point, everything, it just felt like everything had drained out of me. and I didn't want to accept it and I didn't want to... Where I saw that adrenaline. Yeah, it's still kicking off and it just, after that, everything went into a blur and I'm really, I struggle remembering things after that. For me, I just like, I can't remember what happened after that event for up until later on that night. I remember being sat on the back of this flat bed, looking out into the desert and I was just thinking about his mum and dad. How... Yeah, I mean, there's just shit situation there and absolutely nothing you can do. no, no, no. What was the, the only reason I asked this is because I've been through it loads of times. So what was the Casivac procedure from where you were or you proper middle of nowhere? We were in the middle of nowhere. So how, what did you just call it in and get a helo in? No, there was an helicopter. I remember it. That's what I mean. Yeah. At that point, think. It was either an ambulance turned up, an ambulance or a truck. But by then you probably called it in as a, as it's not priority then anyway. Yeah. Unless someone else was injured like the driver. Yeah. And at that point it was just like... I have this massive memory block for that next six hours. So I don't really know what happened. just, was this everything was on slow motion. even when I try and think back to what happened, I'm currently going through EMDR therapy, you know, to try and process I start my training in May. Do you really? Yeah. Fantastic. Well, it's something that I've always been keen on. And I know there's always been something there that has been stuck from that place. I had it years ago because I used to get flashbacks. and really bad night terrors and it really helped me. It didn't sort everything, I then had to improve and do stuff around myself after but it was a really fantastic tool and that's exactly why I decided to train in well I've done a lot of therapy and then when you come out of the army they try and know they'll give you therapy but it was all trauma focused it was all CBT. I was just like this isn't You're just going through the same thing over and over again. doesn't unpick it from the place. Cause the problem is, is that is a trauma, right? And it's in that part of your brain. need to take it and put it into a memory. And I've been running on that fight or flight system ever since. that, I mean, that adrenaline. It's a long time, Andy. It's a long time. So, and that's, that's probably what we'll talk about next is after that event, you know, I was 19 years old. How do you even begin to sort of put that together? And that was one thing we saw a lot of things over there that was as you would have done, but that was the one that is obviously closest to me. Yeah, it's just so personal, isn't it? And you also trained him. Yeah. Helped him out. Yeah. Young lad. Absolutely. It's not nice. So then it was like literally, right, the war's finished. We spent a bit of time unraveling everything, taking stuff back to the port and that. So we stayed there probably longer than most people did. And then it was like literally right back to Germany. Yeah. Big piss up. Yeah. Thank you very much. Well done. You've all done brilliantly. And then we was on it. We got put on a boat back to back to the UK and then a train up to Manchester. And it was just surreal that journey on the way home. Just yeah, let's let's get on it. It's like 19. 91 this so so yeah so my questions around this would be obviously a lot's changed in the military right even in the time from then to when I deployed I deployed in 2010 so we're talking that's a long time after you were doing that Even when I was in in 2010, we had trim. So trauma risk management, which kind of tried to address traumatic incidents. were in tried to didn't really do a great job. And I would say that the military delivering that probably wasn't the right idea. ⁓ Because they're just like, you were right on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking not right. I'm guessing there wasn't really any of that then? No, it was all very much... I remember one of the Sergeant Majors, because I got in quite a bit of trouble after all of this happened. not surprising. One of the Sergeant Majors said to me, and this was the kind of the culture of the army at the time, that wasn't a proper war. I went to the Falklands, that was a war. that was the mentality that he was dealing with, with these guys at the time. if you ever try coming out saying I've got a problem, you was just looked down on. How many... how many US soldiers had PTSD out the back of ⁓ Golf 1. tons just because the anticipation and what they were expecting to happen and you go through all that, you live it. You live as if you're fighting a war because they prepared you for it. It doesn't matter whether you did it or didn't. I know more guys in the Royal Marines who went to Afghan who didn't fire around, are a worse, not completely, but there are guys who never fired around who have more issues with that than with the guys that fought. Because you're prepared and you go for it or you... Well you're constantly in that mould aren't you? Yeah, and you go through all that and then to not do it and to put boots on the ground is as much of an issue as it is people Yeah, I've thought of that. Because it does, you change as an individual, you switch into a different mould. you've had to, you've had to leave your family, you have like a party, normally drinking, to leave. you've then gone through that whole process that's like trauma inducing already before you've even, whether you fired around or not, you've had to deal with. the emotional problems of leaving people behind. There's a whole host of things that happens that the military, especially back then, did not think, well, you didn't even fight a real war. Okay, but you've had to go through all the issues around family and stuff of leaving and then it's a lot. Coupled together with if you've got like... an awkward or hard childhood past which normally people that join the military young have anyway. and the whole thing's like a shit show really. Perfect storm, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So then you got in trouble after? Yeah, I sort of hit the drugs hard when I got home. Yeah. the rave scene had just started and I'd always had, was into that kind of music anyway, but I literally... What music was it then? So it was all very early. Not jungle and... No, was all... That was after, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like right at the birth of the rave scene. So 88, 89, 90, very early. like house. Piano, house music, very uplifting. A lot of the illegal raves were still happening. was part of all of that, going to Blackburn, to these clubs, Monroe's, Upfront, Revenge, and all the big... But I had a few quid, because I'd saved some money up from being abroad. I think we had five weeks leave, which was like, right, what am going to do for five weeks? And the answer was, I'm just going to get absolutely... And when you're going to the rave scene and you're... buying pills and not drinking as much all of sudden but having a wilder time. money goes a long way. me in a space where I didn't have to go and talk about what I'd been and what I'd seen and what I'd done. I was just with people that just wanted to talk to you because a lot of that... they are friendly. Yeah, going into pubs and stuff like that, a lot of people just wanted to, right, let's talk about war. And I get that because... If you've been sat there watching it for six months then if someone's... So I totally understand but I didn't... That's the last thing I wanted to be talking about. So an escape for me was going out and getting absolutely off the garden and then I'd sleep for a day and then I'd just be repeating that process. But in that time of that five weeks, got quite not, I wasn't addicted to drugs, but I was taking a lot of amphetamine, which was really strong amphetamine and ecstasy and all of that. And I thought, well, when I'm going back, what am going to do here? Am I going to get back? When I get back to Germany, I'm... So I made the decision to take some back with me, which... Do you not think you could have just got some in Germany? Not to the sort of level I was getting in Manchester and where I got it from. Because I didn't live it. I mean, looking back, no, you probably think that would have been a good idea, but I didn't have any connections or anything like that. No, it's not. And I just thought to myself, no, I'm taking some back. And I made the decision, I bought half an ounce, which is like 14 grams, and I put it in the fold-out hood in my ski jacket and we're driving back. gets to Venlo and just as we get there there's never any normally there's no border police on we were just a straight crossing through but this day fucking police there weren't they on the border police and we've got there and it ended up I think I've been set up but there's a long story because I told someone beforehand it sounds a bit like that and when we got there it was a case of right out so we all gets out the car there's three or four of us in there And I think it on my feet, I thought, right, it's a bit cold. Do mind if I just get my jacket? I thought, if I keep it on me, chances are I'm not going to get done here. So I put my That's a big ping for him, isn't it? Maybe. He's like, why did he grab his But they've searched all the car, they've ripped the car to bits, know, the seats, they had all, was just so they know, there's definitely a tip-off. And the last thing that he did is he come round to me and he unpicked these presto's at the back of my jacket and I was like, ⁓ shit. And I knew then, was like, I'm done. drugs in the army, it just wasn't a thing. I mean it's definitely still not right. No, no, no, it was becoming a bit of a thing because of the rave scene so it was creeping in. No, yeah, people are doing it but it's not. But if you get caught, rightly so because you're dealing with ammunition and stuff like that. as he gets his bag out and he waves it in front of me face, he's like cocaine, cocaine and I just laugh. He yeah I'm okay and he just grabbed hold of me and I'm on the deck and I'm ⁓ shit, I'm in the shit here. Military police got sent for and that... period then probably that lasted maybe six months before I actually got court-martialed. Okay. But in the meantime, I was just like, I was going off like a bottle of pop. So it was like, was going to... may as well then, yeah. I'm done here. So was going to Rotterdam. I was going pretty much every weekend. There's a massive rave club there called the Parkzicht, which was legendary in old rave terms. We'd go there on a Friday night. Parkzicht five o'clock in the evening till seven o'clock in the morning. There was a bar straight facing it. We'd come out the Parkzicht, go into this bar, straight into that bar, spend all day in it, back into the park for Saturday night and then just crash and burn. So you were hitting it hard basically? We were going mental. And that just kept going on and going on until they got to a point where it was like right you're risking yourself and you're I think I've been back we were supposed to be back on parade and it was three days late and it was like right you are and I told him this is how this panned out so we turned up on I think it was Wednesday when we got back. and he gets me in the office, the Sergeant Major, and I spilled everything. I was just like, right, this is what we've done, blah, blah, blah. We've been to Rotterdam, we took that many drugs, we run out of money and we couldn't afford to get back. And the whole story come out and he said, you just wait there. And I was like, sat there in his office, this is a bit weird. Next thing, walked back in with his Sergeant, and I was like, oh, right. So I instantly conned on that he needed a witness and I changed the story completely. I was like, we was trying to get all the evidence in, and in three days we'd run out of money. Well, you could see the steam coming out of his ears. He wasn't happy then. No, no, no. So I ended up getting 56 days solitary confinement for that. I got chucked in a cell on a bed. In Germany. On an angle. Yeah, in a cell in the guard room. Wow. on a bed that was on an angle like that. you had your little tiny mattress. many days? 56 days. 56 days in solitary confinement? Well, they let me, they'd take me out once a day to take me to where they I didn't even know that shit happened. Oh mate, it was ridiculous. And the only thing that they had was like, they gave me crayons and pens and stuff. How long was this after getting back from Iraq? This would have been probably three, maybe four or five months. So of all that time going on and just causing chaos. You're not even lying. That's, ah. This is wild. Yeah. So it was, I was literally, and they gave me these pencils and crayons. So I just made, I did a load of drawings and I've still got them at home. I've still got, there's about 20 drawings and they are so anti-army. I've got one of them tattooed on me arm there. So that was a picture that I drew when I was in solitary confinement, which is like a guy that's really tormented. I get it. Yeah. And I've got- Is he got double eyes? Yeah. Well, it's got like a, a spin in it. it. Yeah. So I'll show you the pictures. They're incredible. I look back at them. I'm interested in all stuff like that. But that was it. So at that point I was waiting for court martial. I was in doing this solider confinement and then they actually gave me, I got court martial then. I got like, I think I got six months sent to Colchester to be discharged. But because I'd served some of my time already. probably ended up doing maybe two months I think in Colchester and then I was discharged. That was 18th of March, 92. I got out. and then I'm guessing then comes a period of feeling sorry for yourself. Yeah. I was gutted because although I know I'd caused a bit of trouble in the army, I was still really good at my job and I took pride in everything. Yeah, of course. Yeah, there were a couple of incidents that I'd gone out and I'd found myself in bits and bobs of trouble. But 90 % of my career, especially like when I was in the Gulf, I was... worked so hard to such a high standard because you've got to do, you know, it was always there for me teammates. I was always there for, you know, to do what you were supposed to do. And then I was just, it was as if it was just like, right, get out. We want to know. decompression or, no, or any understanding. was no understanding at all. So can you correlate any of that? Would you say the behavior beforehand enabled the behavior after, or would you say that the Iraq? what happened in Iraq then also shaped what happened after that. Yeah, it definitely shaped what happened after that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I was using, and I look back on this now, when I've It's easy now. It's easy now. And I could see the victim mindset where it started. And it started very early on from when I first got out the army, because that seed had been planted that actually they don't give a, why have they done this? And it was like, that's where it started. And that just bred. And over the years it got bigger and it sort swelled into my relationships and it into other areas in my life, work, this, that and the other. And don't get me wrong, I've made a decent living for myself. I've done all right. It's not as if I'd sat about on my ass after that. I've grafted, but I still had this victimised set. And because I wasn't aware of it, it just kept going. I mean, you look at what happened. was like the nineties. I spent pretty much doing the same thing. I got involved in with a dance music band from Manchester called 808 state. I got very lucky to be involved in what are the, you so it's all over the world with these guys and because they were like the biggest dance band from Manchester. So I was in with this crowd and I co-presented their radio show with them, you know, just on the back of a phone call. So I did all of that in the nineties. That was like just continuing going, getting off my head and doing stuff. You're still only young though. Still only young, yeah. mean, what was it then? was 20, 21 when I got out, 22. Yeah. So was still, you know, 30 years old. But then I just carried on and that lasted up until when I was about 50, really. So about 30 years of strong drugs. But you still managed to work and do and all that stuff, which is similar to me, apart from I was never really into drugs. You're just drinking. But I ran a tree surgery company basically, drunk the whole time to mask the PTSD because then it just quietened my brain down. Well, I just get blackout junk basically. But yeah same thing I just you know but I've managed to stop drinking when I was 34. Yeah, so yeah, I think that thing is burning the candle at both ends. It catches up in here. Yeah. But at the time you feel like it's necessary and you don't even see what maybe it Who knows what's right or wrong. Maybe that was the right timeline for you. But then you've gone on to do you're doing fantastic stuff and maybe that will happen for a reason and you need I think you see what I mean. Keep going down that route because I pushed it so far. learned a lot though. I've so much about myself and looking back now I just I've got so much compassion for that guy because he's got me to where I am now and I wouldn't be doing what I did what I'm doing now if it wasn't for what he put himself through you know and that makes me relate to other people and those struggles because I've known what it's like to to do that much drugs that could almost, know, so many times I thought I'm dead here because I've that much. coming back from this one. Yeah, drinking, like you said, drinking, but drinking then turned into a thing for me where I'd go out and I'd start drinking, that would then lead onto drugs. Yeah. You know, so it was coming at me from all angles. Yeah, and then it's like into the days and it's not. It's literally, four days, five days. Five days was the most I ever did without sleep and it's like, how can you even think about that? It's ridiculous. Have you done an ultramarathon yet? No. There's this correlation. Right of like addicts and people that used to drink hard and being able to like turn the screw in big ultra marathons because they used to do. Like my last race, know sleep deprivation was big and I can push through. I didn't actually do benders like that that often but there was a few. But yeah, there's just some of the world's best ultra athletes are like ex-addicts. total sense, is. Yeah, yeah. It's mad, isn't it? Yeah. But it's because they built the resilience. Of course it is, yeah. mean, you put yourself through it, you've been and done it, all right, it probably wasn't pleasant at the time. But when I was doing that, I thought that was pleasure. And I look back on it now and think, wow, I was torturing myself. I was paranoid, especially coming up towards the end of it. I'd been taking drugs and I'd be instantly paranoid. thinking, what am I doing here? And I couldn't, but I was scared of what was the other side of not taking it because I've taken it for so long, it become the norm, all my friends were doing it so I'm then thinking well it becomes very insular because you're seeing it from your point of view and your friends point of view which is a very small circle but you're convinced that the whole world lives like that and it's weird. Yeah and they definitely do. And as soon as you remove yourself from it which luckily I managed to do, you then start saying shit, the world doesn't operate like this, there's much more going on. this little circle of staying up in someone's kitchen till six o'clock in the morning. One of the big things was me with the realization was that when I stopped drinking, not right at the beginning but like a while in, say three, four months after I've stopped drinking properly. Then, and this is what I explain to my clients, is that it's just not fucking easy. All of sudden you're getting all these feelings that you're used to suppressing. And then they are actually coming up and then you've got to deal with them. Because the alcohol is like the medicine, So you're using it to stop yourself from dealing with the things that are the real problem. And then all of a sudden all these things come up and you're like, oh shit. And then it's easier to go down to the pub or go and get some beers. but it gets way better. And once you have accepted that it's okay to feel those things, then all of a sudden it's fucking magical after. Yeah. And it takes a bit of time to get used to that. took me over a year. Well, when I first stopped, so I've stopped drinking in 2023. I'm coming up, first of May this year, it'll be three years, which is great. And I think, when I first stopped, it was... Like you said, I had to remove myself from all of what I knew, which was one of the hardest things I'd ever done in my life. just changed. me completely, I just had to decide, right, I'm just going to have to white-knuckle this and just do it the way I can get through it. And I've put myself through some really shitty times. So you know what you can do and what you can't do. I can do this. I just need to figure out what's going to be my coping mechanism. What do I need to do something to all that time that I spent partying and no need to put something in place where I'm doing something and that's where hiking came in. Yeah. I, so I set myself a goal, which was to do a triathlon. So I quit drinking. I wanted to quit drinking for a long time, but it's really difficult because there's always an excuse to carry on. Whereas I knew if I made a goal, I would stick to the goal. And then that got the ball rolling. And then did a triathlon and then I booked an Ironman and then do the Ironman. then I'm like, ⁓ there's no reason to drink now. Yeah. But I needed that thing and everyone needs that thing. And I think going outside, hiking and stuff like that is just fantastic. Yeah. It gave me that then that sort of high that I would not because I've got ADHD as well, so I'm constantly chasing that dopamine fix and that's probably where I was went. Well that's why you went so nuts on the So nuts on the drugs because it was just constant. And not necessarily alcohol, the drugs and the thing that give you the dopamine quick fix and that's why I'd always be the last guy standing, I always want more and because I didn't understand what was happening at the time. Well and also the army didn't understand that either. No. Hence why you ended up Absolutely. Because and you get that a lot. I think it's better now. I don't know because I'm not in the military but There's a lot of people in the military of ADHD who are fantastic. Like you're saying, I was really good at my job. You were. Like that, that is it. But you also needed help on the other side of it, which just wasn't there. If you'd have said back then, I mean, I know it wasn't the thing back then, people weren't looking at ADHD, but even the smallest things, you would get criticised and you was lambasted for pretty much anything. If you spoke out of turn and it didn't fit in with what they wanted, then... you might as well just keep your most shots. Yeah, and the irony is at war, you're the guys you want. Absolutely. And also, if you're toeing the line in the military and just being squeaky clean, when it comes to warfare, that's the opposite of what you want. You need guys who are on the edge of okay and not okay. Absolutely. You need a bit of everything, obviously, but... Yeah, if you just totally line, do what everyone says. Yeah. Okay, when you come to like real combat and stuff like that, they're the guys you need. I've seen it time and time again with guys with ADHD who, who... with a guy who would go that extra mile. You know, like they are those guys. Absolutely. Yeah. There's probably a correlation of guys with ADHD and bravery medals too, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. They're just willing to go. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like you said, like with that CPR, you know, you will not stop. no, no. And I think that filters into so many things that I've done in my life. I will keep going and that resilience. And I think like we're going back to the earlier bit, 17 to 19 year old me where that resilience was formed. Because the things they did to us back then were just, I'm talking not nasty things, I'm talking about pushing yourself past the actual running, the doing, you know, the map reading for like 12, 24, 48 hours, and you just constantly, and we went, we did one exercise once, and I'll never forget it, where it was a trench digging exercise. So they put us out in the Brecon Beacons, I think it was, and it was freezing cold. And we was literally, you would dig a trench, you would map it all out, you'd have your cover over the top of it, you'd sheet it, you'd do everything so you could sleep in it, it'd be perfect. And then within 12 hours, one of the guys, was probably SAS, I think they were bringing them in, they were just shooting flares off and we had to bug out. Right, we're moving. So you get contacted. Yeah, you're contacted and you're off again, but you was doing that, I was doing that for two weeks. And it was like, at the end of that, are physically broken. You've had no sleep. But these are the things that build you and make you realise that actually, if I want to do something, I can push myself through it and I'll fucking do it. Yeah, 100%. I take a lot from that earlier, you know, and I take a lot from the military. There's a lot of negatives that I look back and but when I look back at them now, I don't see them as negatives because it happened to me. you reframed it. Yeah. And like we said, all this has led to who you are now. the purpose. So with my, I'm constantly telling people, not just clients, everyone get outside, do some hard things. And that is essentially what you're doing. I don't know that much about what you're doing mountain wise and stuff like that, but you look like you're out doing it all the time, which is great. That was like my route to get out of drinking. So I just, I literally put a backpack on one and I just had, the story was I'd come back from bed. home from one of the trips away with the guys that we go away once a year they're going away next weekend actually so all the guys that went to the Gulf with still got a really good bond with massive piss up yeah but it was like that for years and so 2023 it was the last time I drunk and we went away for five days I kicked the arse out of it same script soon as we got there I went and saw the Romanians bought a shitload of cocaine and it was like right that was me for five days and I came back from that thinking ⁓ I was just a shout of the person. I'd had a shoulder operation booked in for some an arthritis thing. Have you had the same? he said to me, it's only a keyhole operation. said that you'll be in and It's killer, isn't it? Scrape it said to my boss, I'm going on Wednesday, I'll be back in on Friday. No chance. Two weeks I was like, I couldn't move. Painful, isn't it? And it made me really, that two weeks, was perfect timing, you know, it was like, cause I've come back off a massive bender, two days, and then I'm in under the, I'm on the table. And then I'm sat there really feeling sorry for myself now, two weeks on my own thinking shit, evaluated everything in my life. And I was like, this cannot go on. There has to be a seismic shift here. And yeah, as look at it that at the end of that two week period, one of my friends were getting married. and I decided, was still in really strong pain killers, still had my arms trussed up, I thought I'll just go and I'll go for like five o'clock, they'd been there all day, I'll go at tea time, really sunny day, and I just show my face, I'll drive and then I know I'll not be drinking, so jobs are good. And when I got there, they'd been at it for like five hours. And I was just like, shit man. Looking at it and seeing the way they all myself. That was the important bit. I saw who I was and didn't like what I was seeing. Not in a judgmental way because everybody does their own thing at their own time. But for me, at that point in my life, it was what I needed to see. And I drove home from that that night and I got in bed. the minute that changed my life was when I woke up in the morning. and I knew what they would be going through, experiencing, feeling. Yeah, because you've been through it so And I was just, and I went and got a coffee and I sat in bed. God, this And it was just like, everything just changed in that moment. And I just thought, this is what I want for the rest of my life. I don't want to feel that anymore. And then I decided the week after that, I just picked up a backpack and I thought, I'm going to go to Lady Street. set off at this shitty little backpack on. No kit, no nothing. Luckily the weather stayed on me side. no preparation whatsoever. No preparation at all. But I just got up on the top of what I was doing, one of the horseshoe routes and as I got up on the top I was like, ⁓ my god. And it hit me. It was like a spiritual awakening. This is incredible. and I just got hooked and it was like obviously the ADHD was like right I want more of this you know so I set up a little page on Instagram which was Keevo up a mountain it was me just telling me story I well I can just incorporate a bit of sobriety and bit of And you're funny too. The best thing is that you're like, yeah, you're great. I don't take this seriously. Yeah, but that's great. I love it. There's too many guys preaching shit about walking in mountains. The thing is with social media, people compare themselves against other people. I'm like, I'm not going to make this into a highlight video. I'm going to show you when I'm pissed off, I'm going to show you when I'm in a good mood. Reality. Cause we all do it. know, life's like that. It's not a brilliant the reasons, because my missus called me out on it recently, where you haven't showed on social media, fair enough, you haven't showed some of the things that have happened to you recently that have been quite challenging and stuff and I'm like, yeah, fair enough. Only because I'm trying to deal with it all and I can't be arsed to make those videos and I get it, but that was one of the reasons I thought a podcast would be quite good because I can quite thankfully say my life is not amazing all the time ⁓ and it really isn't, like I go through shit all the time, same as everyone else. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm obviously massively into mountaineering. Yes. It's one of my hobbies. Above my level. Well, no, it's different, isn't it? Of course it is. Yeah. But I want to know what's your favourite area? What's the best mountain you've been on, you think? You do mainly UK? Yeah, I've done sort of Wales and the majority of it has been in the Lake District. Yeah, sweet. Yeah. Yeah. So, so where's your favourite area? It's got to be the Lake District. I spend that much time there. It's phenomenal. I'm working my way slowly through the Wainwrights and I've 110 out of 214. So I'm ticking them off nicely. I just love the... the feeling of being out there and spending all day. And the way I feel is when I get there, I just feel a connection. Yeah. And as soon as I get out of the car, it's like, oh, now you've linked it with sobriety and change and everything as well. So then it makes it even more powerful, isn't it? And then you've got a why. And then because you've got a why, then you want to do more of it. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm trying to explain to people. I'm talking to a few people about trying to complete 100 mile ultra races. they're because like I said earlier, unless you've built the mind, like it's and they're like, Oh, I just can't get past that extra bit. And I'm like, well, why are you doing it? Well, I'm doing it because I want to. And you're like, whoa. You're doing it because you just want to do it and it's part of you, not for any external reason. And there's always this thing, I want to prove to this person that I'm going to prove. strong and like if you're doing it like that it just doesn't happen and that's why when you've got a why and I had a big why for the race I've just done yeah and because I did I could get through it because everything gets hard but if you've got that reason it makes it that going to drive you through. Exactly yeah which is why you'll just wane right. Yeah and become part of who I am now you know. exactly yeah I mean that to me that's who you are because that's how I met you as this guy yeah you know I didn't meet you as yeah as The record. Yeah, the record. Same as you didn't meet me. So yeah, that's it's the latest treat and I'll keep going doing them till I do the 214. I've done some in Wales and I love the places around Wales. You know, I've done Cribb Gawk and I like doing some of the ridges. Yeah, I love the ridges. I thought I was terrified of heights and then I went and did Cribb Gawk and it was just like, but you've seen it from a fisheye lens on YouTube and it looks like that. And it's nothing like that. It's just great. I love that. I'd like to go and do some of the ones up in Scotland because they look proper hurried like Anok. can't remember the weights ⁓ yeah some amazing ones up there. There's some really good ones on the Isle of Skye. I've done done a few. Yeah. ⁓ Cribcock makes me laugh because I see people on social media doing Cribcock and I haven't run it. I run it. And I always tell this story of years ago, I was running up Cribcock and people like running up Cribcock to scramble, but you can, you can like trot along. And this lady who was about 60 come past me and honestly, she must've been going, just set a pole, set a poles. And yeah. And I was like, you're all right. She's like, yeah, good, good. Just like hammered past me and I'm not a bad runner. And then you're just like, humble. ⁓ Well, the day we did it, they must have had one of these races on. think that was a 100 mile one and it was the middle of the summer. These guys that were doing it, is it nonstop that they do it? Yeah, it's just A to B. They were just like mountain goats. was phenomenal how they were operating. And I was absolutely drenched. Obviously we were carrying backpacks and stuff and they were just doing what But you could just tell they were loving it. know so yeah that's for me is getting out there going doing those things is just second nature now and I love it I love getting up in the mountains and just feeling that connection yeah and I think if anyone's in a in like a in a constant state of, oh, what's life about? I recommend just getting out in the mountains. Going on a little walking holiday. can be as simple making that decision to get yourself out the house, even if it's just getting outside, because I still struggle with my mental health to these days, but I know if I stay in a room and I know what's going to happen, so I have to really force myself to either go into movement is always the key for me. Yeah, same. It matter whether it's a run or whether it's getting up a mountain. or just walking around my local nature reserve where I live, I'm lucky I live right next to one, just doing that instantly it changes you know so having that it's like a strategy isn't it that you need to become part of who you are to then, but it's having these tools. We're a bit lucky because we've done the coaching side of things and we know, but it still doesn't make you unfallible. You can still fall down a hole, you know? No, but that's that realism piece, isn't it? Yeah. We're not all like... No, not perfect. I don't want to be perfect. Even Tony Robbins would say that he has bad size now and then. you know, we've done the same qualification with the coaching with Andy Ravage. It's great. And I love doing that because I think he's such an ethical guy and his training was brilliant. Agreed. But I think the lived experience is much more powerful than anything that you can get taught on in any qualification, know, even and qualifications are important because ethical is right to do it the right way. Yeah. And it was one of the questions I wanted to ask you about about the coaching industry. Yeah. But we'll get into that. Yeah. But that's the way I see it. think that our you you've done a massive lived experience I have and coming at it from the angle that we've come at it for me that leans much more heavily into this is why I'm doing it, know, instead of, I've done it because I've got a qualification, you know. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with, I mean, everyone's got a story and an angle and stuff like that. it's exactly why I wanted to also do... an aspect of therapy because I care about it because I've seen what it did for me. makes total sense. And it was pretty debilitating. I'd be up a tree, cutting a tree down. And then if there was like a field and then like a bun line at the back. I'd just be transported back to Afghanistan and I'd be in a firefight for half hour. And my boss at the time, this was early, I was climbing for someone. luckily he was really, the guy's a legend. ⁓ that he would understand what was going on. I'm very good at, so even if I was using a chainsaw, I was very good at turning it off, putting it down. And I was good at body control whilst it was happening. And I'd just be there for 15 minutes. Just know what's going on. And eventually it would fade out and I'd be back and I'd be like, oh bloody hell, yeah. It's lucky to have that, because a lot of guys don't have No, I know they don't. But the EMDR got rid of that. And it did, and it really made such a huge difference. So I don't think it's right for everything. I think there's also other applications that it can be used for. think it's good for addiction as well, drinking, cocaine, all that type of stuff. But yeah, sorry, I've on the tangent there. that's what this is about, isn't it? But coaching, VARCME, there's some drossy people doing stuff, isn't there? Yeah. And you see it... With no training. Yeah, there's a lot of people that are just going out there that are seeing coaches and think, I can earn a shit ton of money out of this, but they don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand how it works. they've never really done it, they've not been trained by anybody ethically and they're just going out calling them a coach. And that's where it gets really sketchy because at the minute there's no regulations around it in regards to you're not going to get pulled up. No, because obviously we're part of, I don't know, I don't know that much about it, but it's the Association of Coaching. Yeah, ours was triple accredited, so it's the International Coaching Federation, the Association for Coaching and the European... Yeah. At the EMCC. Yeah, which as doing a coaching course goes, that's... pretty good. guy's been doing it for a long long time. Andy's fantastic. phenomenal in it. That's what really got me into looking at him because it's the only reason I went. He was on the Rich Roll podcast and he's the only person I listened to about quitting drinking stuff that resonated with me. And I was like, I'm just going to find, and he said I've run courses for people who want to coach people on how to quit drinking and stuff like that. I was like, I'm just going to go down the road. Cause he's the only person I listened to and I tried to find him. people but I just didn't believe it. It was the perfect time for me so this was like 2024 I've been working as early as the sales manager for a number of years and it was a rocky ship at that time so we working for a company they were good company but there was a lot of change happening we've been bought out by this big American company they were squeezing the life out of it because it wasn't making as much money as what they thought it was going to make. So you was getting receptionist laid off, was getting admin staff laid off. So you got like three people trying to do 20 people's job. I worked in the sales department, so there was four managers in that sales department. They cut one of those managers, which was the one that worked on my department. So I was left with just me. And it was like, they still wanted the same result. as it panned out that year, I got took to a disciplinary because I was the used car manager. So they took me to disciplinary saying you use car departments not hitting his budget. Yeah. And I was like, well, really is that fair because you've just cut 50 % of me manpower and really how are you supposed to leverage that budget was written for four. We've now got three. So they took me to a disciplinary anyway. then got this woman that was really, really good in HR. She looked at it and said, that's completely wrong. So we put an appeal in this took six months, you know, two and a throwing and all that. that stress of like, I'm gonna lose my job. Because you realize at that point, I've got all my eggs in this basket. And that's horrible stress too. Of course it is. Yeah, it's not nice. That's, yeah. So, put me appeal in. It's unethical. And I won me appeal too. was a case of- obviously. But it was the scars that it sort of left me with. And I just thought, hang on, I've worked for this company and given me all for a long, time. And I just thought I made a decision. not think you might related that to the army a bit? Possibly, yeah. There's a link isn't there? Yeah, absolutely. But then I just decided actually this is not the way that I want to go. realised I was a number instead of... Yeah, yeah. And it just didn't sit right. So the boss said to me, who took me to this disciplinary, he said to me one day, said, are you all right? Because when I go quiet people notice because I'm quite vocal. And I was like, no, can we go and have a word? So I went into his office and I just put my cards down on the table and I said... want to walk away from here with my head held high. I want to look at you in the eye, shake your hand. And don't want to leave on bad terms, but for me, I feel like I'm done. So I would do me structure this. So we come up with an agreement and this was just at the time when I was finishing my diploma. So this would have been like April, May. We weren't on the one together, we? But I remember being on a session when you were there and I think it was like crossed over. Yeah, it must have I started in October 24 for the Andy Rammage thing and I finished in May. So that was it, I just thought, well if I don't do this now... I might as well just start a coaching business and see what happens. And I just, that's what I did. I just threw it out to the universe and thought, I'll finish that and I'll start my coaching business. And yeah, that's what I've been doing for the last 12 months. And what's a business called Andy? So it's called Your Comeback Coach. Your Comeback Coach. Which I thought fitted in really with what I'm all about. So resilience is massive in my life. It's how I've got myself to where I am. So I understand the resilience bit, you know, understanding your beliefs. Because for me, I believed for many, many years that I that I wasn't good enough for, was stuck in this job or I was a drinker, I was taking drugs, that my belief system was... you were identifying yourself as that person? 100 % and when I started realising through coaching that your belief system could be changed I was like, you what? Why are you telling me It's funny because you saying that about yourself was I wouldn't see you as that too. Yeah, well I completely identified Because it's not true. Yeah, but then that's what kept me stuck in that Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I was just like... started realizing that you can unpick that and replace that belief with a new belief and I was like really? that sort of lit me up and then you start having these coaching conversations you you're doing it all through your diploma anyway aren't you but you realise all the hours of having a conversation with someone and watching the lightbulb moments going off in the red then they realise something about themselves. It's quite mad when you do that with people and you realise because you've been taught a way of actually doing it that works and they're like ⁓ that was really useful and you're like Jesus! what a question, you're like, fuck did I say that? Especially in beginning it was mad. That power, when you see it in them, it gives you a nice little feeling, like, it really helps someone today. And also doing it with, I found all the people that we did it with, who were all learning. same time because you're all talking to each other about not problems but things you need to solve, you realise that everyone's it's all the same. Everybody's doing the Absolutely, we're all carrying around the same sort of luggage but just in a different bag. Yeah, 100 % yeah and that you'll have the answers and you'll know if you're honest with yourself. So that was it, I've resigned from Audi, I've finished there. ⁓ and then I signed up to write a Amazing. So it's a book series called Start Over which is It's all about turning a loss into a sensational comeback and essentially the premise of it is there is 14 authors in each book. It's only a short story, 5,000 word stories. So it's like an accumulation of lots of different... From all kinds of backgrounds, from all over the world. And this is what I love about the project because you meet all these people as well. So there's 10 books in the first series which has now just been completed so they're on book 10 currently. They're releasing one a month. Mine is in book one of season two, which is probably going to be out in a month or so. So I'm genuinely, but for me that writing that down then, because obviously I'm two years sober at this point and I've never really sat and wrote what I feel down. But then I had to go back and read all the letters that I wrote to my mum when I was in the Gulf. So all that. Last year, I'd spend a week trying to write a page. I'd fall to bits and not realise why I was falling to bits. I'd get really sad and depressed and pissed off. And then I was thinking, I'm going to minute this is you're bringing up stuff. I'm working my way through this. And it's like, so I did it and I've worked my way through it. But that has took a toll last year, you know, because I've worked my way through it and I'm proud of doing that because the times were I would have dipped me toe in that and then thought, ⁓ and I did that for 20. 30 years. It just shows your progress doesn't Yeah I'd run away and I'd get drunk you know. I didn't get any of those. I learned skills about just right the mountain so when I felt that negative energy I've got to get myself out there and do something healthy that works for you. So that's I've done that and then I've been doing the one-to-one coaching all last year which has been fantastic I've learned so much about so many different people. This year I'm going to carry on doing my one-to-one coaching. I'm moving into doing some group coaching, some workshops. Yeah, we spoke about that before. I did a workshop up in Scotland last month and I'm going do it this week. How do you find that? Brilliant. I loved the way that, because just connecting with different people. You've got more access to more people. Yeah, but you're connecting with people and everybody's got the same, it doesn't matter who or where or what. the audience in front of you might be, they've all got the same beliefs, they've all got the same struggles going on, and the stuff that we talk about is just transferable across everybody, that's why I love it because... And it is different doing it a group setting because you're not individualizing, you're not talking about an individual issue or goal or whatever it might No, but even if someone... But they're going to be able to get something from it, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. I know individually you can really tailor stuff to work for someone particularly, like working out their strengths and beliefs and things like that for an individual. but the general premise is still the same, so you're still gonna help. The feedback from that from the last session was great in the workshop that I did because I started off on the first session I did around beliefs and then I followed, so I did like an hour and half on that and then went into growth mindset because I thought they did the term perfectly. Right, this is what your beliefs are and what you can do to change it. Once you've changed it, look at what you can do with adopting a growth mindset because I was stuck in a fixed mindset for 20, 30 years. and I read the power of You were telling yourself a story weren't you? Of course, yeah. And when you realise that you can separate yourself from that story and... Adopting that growth mindset again. I didn't know what that was till I started coaching, but it all made perfect sense I believe our lives are mapped out for us. Anyway, you know the way that things happen. Yeah, I actually So yeah, so I'm doing that and I've just stumbled into something that is really so I didn't think I'd end up doing this but I'm going meeting someone tomorrow, which is a partnership in between me and a company called ⁓ Sports for Champions cool what they do is they put elite athletes into schools to do motivational talks. Now I'm not saying I'm an elite athlete, let's get that right, but they've just started working with veterans. So they reached out to me, seen what you're doing on social media, we'd like to have a chat. Now this has been going on for like six months and I didn't think anything was going to materialise and as of last week they contacted me and say... come in next week, do your onboarding. So I'm gonna go maybe do one or two days a week for them in between seven and 11 year old kids, going to schools, talking about mindset and talking about the army. you've got to obviously watch the kind of language that you use. You can't be saying anything graphic in regards to both. But good for them and good for you. Good for them, it gives you, yeah, because to angle it for that. And one, it's with the youth, is brilliant. For me, opening them up at an early stage about mindset and beliefs and all the good things that we talk about. The you get introduced into that, the better because you can understand what you're capable of. Yeah and also the best thing about coaching is that you're teaching someone to coach themselves. Yes. And if you can do that for a kid early, that's why like Bear Grylls for example, the reason Bear Grylls was so successful was because his mum took him to stuff the whole time he was younger including Tony Robbins, all kinds of things. Really? He learnt how to coach himself from a really young And that's why that's not the only reason but that's why he's so successful because when everyone was doing what we were doing Yeah, he was going to things like that and learning how you could better yourself Yeah, I listen to I mean, yeah, some people love him so he's a bit Marmite isn't he but he was doing coaching from a very young age and that clearly shows. He's always got a positive message. Yeah, I think so. yeah, yeah, yeah. He's an interesting bloke. Yeah. So that's one thing I was going to say was I also, I told myself a story because when I left the military, They sent me to combat stress for PTSD. and I went to combat stress and I didn't last very long. I didn't get on with the people there. The other outpatients or inpatients, shall we call them. Anyway, I left and I ended up going private to sort myself out. So I spent a load of money having EMDR therapy, different types of therapy, things like that. But the doctor I saw said to me, you are stuffed. Not stuffed, but he was like, you're gonna have PTSD for the rest of your life and it's always gonna be a struggle and blah, blah, So then you tell yourself a story until I realized actually Actually, let's look at this again, but it took me it took me You know to be told that and then just believe it and then you just tell yourself a story. Oh, well, went to war Yeah, I was wrong. Yeah. I got blown up. Yeah. Yeah, I tried to save people but I didn't well I did in some cases but didn't in others. Yeah, my friends died now I'm now I'm be a bit like this forever. Yeah, and you just tell yourself that all because someone said one thing. Crazy isn't it that? Yeah and then eventually I woke up and I was like actually. Lucky you did because that's something that can stay with you. It's my concern that if people are getting, not every doctor would say that and I don't mean it like that but it only took one person to say one negative thing to me, well what I perceived as negative, to almost set me on a course for rest of my life of feeling sorry for myself and I've got PTSD and you know and some people it really does hammer them forever. course it does. But that can be transferred into so many different parts of your life where you get told something and you don't know. And most of our beliefs have come from before we was 10 years old anyway. So you never really, I suppose you could go back and find out where it comes from. 100%. And that's a lot of the work I did was working out why I did certain things. know, my dad left before I was born. I was basically looking for approval from male figures all the way through. And that meant me doing some pretty extreme things. And now I understand it. I'm like, well, don't do that, Dan, because you're just doing it this reason but then it all and that's the problem with hindsight is that it all makes sense now but it just took a fucking long time to get there. That's part of the journey though isn't it? Yes and that's why if you are doing EMDR and stuff like that it'll probably flag up some things and you'll be like shit. No doubt it's gonna flag up a lot of stuff but I'm open to it now you know. No of course you will be but now's the right time and that's the difference because you were doing drugs for a reason. Yeah I actually went one of the therapies that I did have was there was a guy called called Rob Paxman, XSAS, and he started a charity called Talking to Minds. I think this was back in 2011. And it was a five day course that you went and stayed there all day from sort of nine till five. it was called spectrum therapy. And essentially what they did is every day they would work on one emotion. So it would be that anger, fear, guilt. But they would associate it with the colour. And it was phenomenal. So I got a really good reaction from that. And what they did is they would... At the morning, the morning of the session, so I had one facilitator that was with me all day, Dino, guy that did all my tattoos, right? Brilliant guy. He was madly troubled as well with it. I'm still in contact with him now, but they would sit you in the morning and they would, you'd spend 10 minutes getting into this zone where you would imagine that you could see a tennis ball in your mind. You close your eyes and you wouldn't be able to move on until you could see this tennis ball in your head. And then it'd be, right, can you see it? Yes. Turn it pink, put a number seven on it, spin it. And it was like, you'd literally, you can see a and then what they do is they make you visualize it coming round to the side of your head and that unlocks your subconscious and then when they're asking you the questions, because essentially what they were trying to do was get to the root cause of each emotion and when they did it, was surprising what comes out. What comes out, Wow, and that was really, really powerful but it was 2011, I was still drinking, was still, so I came out of that, I probably had maybe a month or two off drinking and then I was bang at it again but. That's one thing with therapy, I wouldn't say there's like a right tool for everything. A lot of it is whether you're ready for it. And then to... ⁓ is the person who's doing it with you right. That seems to be a massive thing because if you don't, a lot of people I hear, there's some fantastic therapists but if you don't believe in them or you feel that they're not right for you, that's a big issue that people contact me about. They're just not relatable. You've got to trust them and you've got to be honest. Yeah and that's why I always tell people you've to be patient with therapy because there's a whole process. process going on there that everything kind of has to align for it to be really effective so it could take some time. It's interesting that you're doing that because obviously the two modalities you know the coaching is all about positive psychology and looking at the emotions from zero to plus ten and the therapies yeah minus ten. Yeah just the reality is that a lot of people that come my way A lot of people have asked me, Dan, can you just do some work in that? And that's fine and I want to, so it's fine. But it's just getting it all done whilst you're working. Like we said, we all have issues, same as everyone else. It's trying to make money and train and do something new at the same time and provide proper service to clients that we currently have. So what other plans for the future then, Andy? Apart from the Wainwrights? get the wave rights done, there's so much stuff that I want to do but the way I look at things now is that I don't try and plan six months down the line, look at because over these 12 months since I made my decision to leave and put myself into this different space of being self-employed So many different openings have just turned up at the right time. And I'm a massive believer in how this, how the universe, yeah, aligns gives you what you need at that time. Yeah. You know, I believe that the path is no matter how painful it is, it's going to be lessons. There's going to be great blessings. But I'm just very, very open to new opportunities, new things that come into my life. don't say, you know, I'm not taking everything on board, but I've been spinning a lot of plates over this last 12 months. I'm just going to continue to be in that sort of vein of being open to things. want to create. big difference we're coaching I've got a men's mental health walk that I do every Wednesday called MAST which is Men Are Stronger Together and where's that so that's in Lee which is where I live. And essentially what I want to do with that is we are just tied to these phones. We are tied to being, I think there's a big problem and epidemic of loneliness. think there's guys sat in on their own because I've there, done it. And I want to give guys a safe space where they can just get out the house and just come for a walk and have a chat. And I know there's quite a few places doing it and it's good. Yeah, so if anyone's listening and you're not from this area, you a quick Google, I think there is plenty in different places. Yeah, there's lots of groups cropping up. And people that are open to helping people in wild ways. the Arctic spine I did, I did for a... Men's, it's not Men's anymore, but it was a Men's mental health charity called Coffee and Coping in Hartford. So like near Essex way. What Hartfordshire. And same thing. They're providing immense amount of stuff for people. And it's mainly to do with loneliness, drug use, alcohol, all sorts of stuff. So I want to grow that. I want it to be a walking group initially. But my plan is to maybe just go and do something where you're going twice to the lakes, doing a retreat, we just get rid of our phones and we just connect. Maybe do some healing, maybe go and do some cold water dipping, just some good stuff that takes us away from normal life. For me, connections, the most one of the most important things because that loneliness thing is massive. And I've been there because I've had to remove myself from people for the last three years. Yeah, to get to where I am now. understand. But how many people are doing that? Because I went at the latter end of my drug taking career. I was alone and I was depressed. that was a dangerous place to be. And there's a lot of suicides just so it scares me of how many people are actually in that position. And if I can help. corny thing to say but if can help a person to get out of that frame of mind to come to one of these to see that actually there's more to life than what I'm actually currently living in then we'll be doing something good. Yeah amazing well well done Andy and thanks for coming on. Thank you very much. Anything else you want to say? No. I have one more question which I forgot to ask you. is the one thing you've changed in your life I think I already know the answer what's the one thing you've changed in your life that's made the biggest difference? stopping taking drugs and stopping drinking. Yeah, I knew it was going to be. It was alcohol for me. Those two things combined was toxic and it made me into a person that I didn't like. And when you're living in that hamster wheel of not liking yourself, that catches up with you, you know, and... It takes a long time to start unpicking that, but it's a pleasurable, it's not a pleasurable experience. It's an experience that I've learned to sit and be uncomfortable with those feelings now. yeah, stopping taking drugs, stopping drinking, stopping any toxic behaviour and being accountability. Yeah. That for me is when I started being accountable to who I am and to what I'm doing. And instead of being a victim, realising that actually everything is my decision. and when you realise how powerful that is, that's the big change. Amazing mate, thank you. Andy, thanks mate. Legend.