Latest / Atomic Rambo Podcast / His Father's Decline Nearly Destroyed Him. The Arctic Saved Him. | James, The Wild Welshman

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His Father's Decline Nearly Destroyed Him. The Arctic Saved Him. | James, The Wild Welshman · Atomic Rambo Podcast

• Dan Holder: Yeah, yeah Sweet love it Right today on the atomic Rambo podcast is James the wild Welshman. Thanks for coming down mate. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, thanks for asking me. I absolute pleasure. I have read your ⁓ and ⁓ I ⁓ Relate a lot to my own life and that is one of the reasons so obviously I only just moved to Chester six months ago and someone said there's a guy in the gym and he does arctic stuff and my first instinct was I fucking need to talk to him. So here you are after six months in here. So I've read your book, first question. Where did the name Wild Welshman come from? That's a very good question. So it was only a few years back mate, only a few years ago. I'm enjoying one of these little Arctic episodes, mate. Yeah, which we'll go into a We'll go into a bit. Came from there. Just said, you know, because I was the only... There was two Welsh lads, actually. There was another lad there. Cracking lad. He was sporting the t-shirt, too. Yeah, of course, mate. Everywhere I go. Everywhere I go. Yeah. Sorry, we're going off a bit now already, but I'm in Ireland. They're all like, you from Liverpool? I said, no. Do I sound like... Calm down, lads. Calm down. And I have to show them that. You know? Yeah. Yeah. You're repping. You're repping for I suppose I do sound a bit scout sometimes, you know. But being in Chester, you do pick up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. It's a of It's right on that border. Yeah. Yeah. So it comes from, yeah, so they just said you're just wild, you know, and then they said, the wild Welshman. said, I like that. Stuck with it. Yep. And you've got the personality to fit it. Yeah. Hopefully. I'm not as as I used to be. As you read in the book. I've only just... When I was a youngster. Yeah, changed. Yeah. I've calmed down lot now. Yeah. Getting on a bit. Yeah, well good on you. So the question is then, before we get into your life a bit more, why did you decide to write the book? You know, the main reason is this, right? The main reason is like, you know, if you do some epic stuff in your life, years down the line, talking about your granddad this, great granddad that, it's good to have a little written down for proof that when you're, first of all, there's a number of reasons. This is one. Like a legacy, isn't it? Years later you can say, well, like yourself, you've done some epic shit, right? Am I allowed to swear on this or what? yeah. Comes out free. Fantastic. just comes out naturally. Especially living in island now, because just comes out and this and F that. yeah, just, know, okay. Years down the line, my sons, my daughter, their kids, they're gonna have something to read. You know, it's just one of those. But then also, the deeper meaning behind it is... When you've got things going on in your head, we all need an outlet. Okay? Whether it's, you know, from when I'm training people, especially on the box and the pads, people going through a lot of stuff, they're letting it out. I found that it helped me to get things out of my head by doing anything physical. I was always doing physical, always trying to push my limits in some way. Whether I was riding my BMX, which I was in end of a hospital with the scar down there and all the rest of it, all these crazy things. But pushing limits. I just felt like that is a way of getting out, locking out of compartmentalizing what was going on back at home and just channeling it into something radical. I've always had that. the book itself is, everyone's got something where they can tap into, whether it's going to the mountains, cold water dips. Training in the gym even. Just anything at all is an outlet. We all need that outlet, don't we? Yeah, and that's part of my business. Atomic Rambo coaching is helping people improve in different ways to help their mindset and physical health and definitely and Like you just said there is more ways than one to skin a cat. That's right. You can do park run Yeah, go down the gym. Yeah, you can do cold water therapy. Yeah, you can do saunas. Whatever makes you happy. Just get out You can climb mountains. Yeah, go in the Arctic. Yeah, but it starts off so small Yeah, which I love yeah, I do it as well. And yeah And that is one of the reasons I started this podcast was to get people like you on to tell people you can do all kinds of stuff. But it doesn't matter where you come from, it will help you whatever. It's a natural high. It's a natural high. better than any of the others. did he say in point break, Patrick Swayze? What did he say? He said, some people snort for it, some people jab a vein for it, and other people, you always got to do a jump, said, he? But it's the same sort of thing. jumping out on a plane but I'm doing something that's giving me that buzz. That's such good film. Isn't it? So taking it back then early so you called the book Broken Boy Unbreakable Man. Yeah. Let's go back to the broken boy bit then can you elaborate on that at all? I've been going for hours here but I'll try and break it down. Yeah, so, ⁓ Only if you want it. Yeah, I know we can dip into quite a lot of it, man. So, where do we start? Starting off with, ⁓ obviously my old man had MS, which I didn't really know about until I got to about maybe six years old. Seven. eight years old, yeah, and he'd have a stick for his balance. So he was in the forces and he came out with medical discharges. 20 years, was Long time, 20 plus years, yeah. That's a full career. Mate, honestly. ⁓ And I'll never forget, like, you know, his balance, was... I witnessed some scary stuff, like his whole nervous system was just shaking on the floor. It looked like he was more than a fit. The whole body was literally going and it was quite scary as a child. But then... ⁓ I was, you know, we're going through lots of things like ⁓ being unable to do things because my mum was looking after me 24-7. Yeah. So like, you know, I wrote down a bit like Christmas morning, my mum every day had to blow up that little, well, was a double-sized Lilo to sleep on every night. Then I shit that with no pump, like, you know, to sleep on that. We were coming down every morning for about 18 months of that before they got... enough to get an extension built. Exactly, yeah, so the whole house was then modified for my dad then because he couldn't climb the stairs. You know, he'd be driving sometimes and his foot stick on the accelerator. old was he then? He was 30 when he got it. No, he was 29 when he got it. 51. 51, yeah. Yeah, but back then there was no medication to slow it down and whatnot. I've got friends of MS and it's way different. say smoking bit of cannabis would help them out, right? So I remember in school a lot of them were smoking that. Had I known it would help, I could have got that off my mates. give it to my old man. He'd smoke some fag all the time. would have done some good. Looking back now, I would have got it. No problem. You know the lads in the village was all smoking it. It's mad, isn't it? Just a thing, I don't smoke because of my asthma. Yeah, it makes sense. mean it's not going to help your training. No, not at all. But I remember my old man, when he was able to drive, I'd constantly be going to hospital. like say seven eight nine ten. Ten was my last time I a real bad asthma attack and casualty all the time for the nebuliser and all that. Yeah real bad. ⁓ Best thing for training. Training. Get those lungs. 110 % yeah sport was a big thing with me yeah. Yeah, totally. And then obviously ice hockey later on in my teens. And I'm really passionate about ice hockey. then I couldn't, oh, it's such a good sport. Again, it's an outlet, isn't it? You know, tiny. I was getting smashed everywhere, mate. Doesn't matter, you got pads on. It's great. But then I couldn't get to the practice, couldn't get to the games, things like that. Yeah, because at home. Yeah, my just couldn't leave. And then, listen up, we're going to jump in the gun a bit here. But that's where we might even ask the question about it. I met somebody who was, ⁓ I'll take you here, I'll take you there. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, this guy's really helpful. But there's a reason why he's been really helpful. Yeah, not in the right way. That's further down the line, that's a bit of a head mess. going back to my childhood there, I never forget, I hope, because one of my friends, he's a friend now, but back in the early days we were big enemies, we were always fighting and he was an absolute c-u-n-t mate. And I never forget that, I can tell you that, this wasn't in the book, because I was scared he was going to read it, because we're mates now. ⁓ But I can say it, I remember witnessing ⁓ something that really traumatised me for years and what happened was ⁓ I was obviously into my BMXing and I'd be making ramps. homemade ramps as you do with bricks, know, clearing some good distance. I never forget this lad is a friend of mine, I mention his name now, but he constantly destroyed a ramp, kick it out the way as I'm coming down the hill. So my old man at the time was walking with a walking stick and I'd say, dad, can you just make sure he doesn't do that again? No problem. Dad being a bit aggressive now, picked him up and just shoved him out the way as he was about to do it. Not a good idea. Next thing you know, the mother comes over from the street, giving it large. But she said... It's kicking off. It's all kicking off. Couple of days later, she was saying that my dad hit her. ⁓ right, yeah. Complete bollocks. This is the problem. Just to get a reaction from the husband to come over. And I'll never forget, I was out there again on my BMX and my dad was talking to me. You just trying to jump jumps, Yeah, exactly. And he comes over. That was it. Yeah. But it wasn't good, mate. The outcome wasn't good, like, so I'm witnessing that, mate. And I'm just like, dad, dad, dad's screaming, ⁓ no, get off him, get off him, get off him, trying to get him off him. You know, I'm eight years old. Trying to get a fully grown man off him. get off, you know, screaming. Fuck, it's terrible. But before that, a few days before, I never forget, the door was banging. He was on the door and he was saying, where is he? Where is he? I'm gonna fucking kill him. Where is he? And I'm like, fuck. This is not good. Like all the kids on the bikes wait to see a big thing go off, you Dad's got MS. He's not going to fight no one. I can never, I can always remember he tried to do a kick and it was fucking slow motion. was like, look at eight years old, don't do that. So was good. Traumatising, mate. Yeah. That's actual childhood trauma coming out. Like, bear in mind. It's terrible. Terrible, mate. Stuck with me for years mate. Yeah, it's the panic isn't it? Yeah. That you don't know what's going on. don't know how far it's gonna go. And there's no control. But to the point, he was a bit of a coward taking full advantage knowing. Of course yeah. Although now we're all friends now, the guy's in his 70s, my dad died years ago. And I'm good friends with that now. And young men a lot. I'm saying he was young but fucking blokes do all kinds of crazy shit. Yeah, yeah so. We both, I'm sure we both are. Yeah. So what about that now? We've forgiven it, we're good mates now. ⁓ good. You know? Yeah. Is this what goes on when you're a kid? Yes. It's not right though, is it? No. So seeing my old man like, you know, going like that and deteriorating when he was... My outlet was horrendous. I was just destroying things. I would be arguing with my brother. Like I said, I smashed a chair over it. I destroyed the doors. Anger needed that outlet. Needed boxing. Down the line, that was great. Martial arts, that was great. We'd have you take me to that. Eventually couldn't take me anywhere. ⁓ And then that was it when I got into my training and I started to get a little bit more calmer. 16 years old, then I started being nice and he had dementia at this time and he'd like, where's James gone? He's just gone out, good, he's a pain in the arse, keep him out, don't want him here. Five minutes before that, I was nice to him, but he's forgotten, he's remembering all the times I was a little bastard. Yeah, because it's hard for people, a lot of people live in the past. Totally. Even they live their present in the past. Yeah, yeah, that dementia and all the rest of it, he was just forgetting it. So it's pretty bad, I tried to get it going and make, know, eventually, I don't really know if he did or not, but... You I was a bit bad, almost got sent to children's homes and all sorts, mate, and we couldn't cope with it. Yeah, you just needed a more, you just needed an outlet that was good for you. Yeah, but in school, was different. In school, was like, I've seen all my mates and everything. Yeah, so you... taking it serious, but it was away from home, so I got away from home. know, when I go back, as soon as I'd be home, I'd get changed, I'd be schooled, I'd be out, I wouldn't go back in till late. Yeah, that was pretty similar Yeah, until you an apology. Where have you been? Should've been here, you know? I'm a mum and I'm the eldest of four. Yeah, she just busy. So I was just out. But it might have been that now you're out all the time, you're going out all the time doing what you do. It's a similar sort of thing. It's the same thing. It's just now we just do bigger things. Yeah, exactly. And get more trouble sometimes. Yeah, totally. So there you go mate, that's pretty much... And then when he died when I was 18. Yeah, which is a massive... Yeah, but he had no quality of life at all. Like the only thing that was working was his arm because he'd be flapping over in his chair like that right yeah and he'd have to pull himself back up all the time and that was the only arm that's 12 years you've had to that's 12 years you've been aware of and seen his decline yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thinking back you know when I was just angry because everyone else's dad was fine course yeah you needed you know you really you needed some proper support ⁓ Yeah, unfortunately a lot of people would say exactly the same. You know that's why you can see how gangs happen. 100 % because then you're part of on the streets are always, they're all friendly with you and all nice with you and all the rest of it and they're kind of like not grooming you in any way but like pulling you away because you know it's making you feel better. They're making you feel better. You've got a tribe then. Yeah you've got a little tribe. This is why I know you didn't go in the middle but that's why a lot of young guys especially troubled young guys going to military. ⁓ That would have been amazing for me and I tried 16 years old and it just wasn't happening. But that's just one of those things but you've managed to do plenty of stuff that's kind of kept you you know gyms and things are good places to be and if you're training people that want to improve you're around good people. That helps doesn't it? Yeah yeah definitely that's kind of like rewarding if you like. The gym is just to simmer away, you know what saying? It's just to keep me going, yeah. then doing big challenges and stuff is where it really is. Just keep me floating and just keep me bobbing over water with the gym, that's all it is. So training then was your outlet? Yeah. So training, boxing. Now it's Arctic Expeditions and things like that. But going back bit, you didn't start that till a bit later though, did you? No, do you know what? didn't start that. It's a good man old story. So I've been boxing in mold, in Denby, ⁓ Saltney. And I finally found a real good trainer. Alan. Alan Millett, fantastic. I went to meet Mike Tyson, was. Awesome. Yeah, got a photo with him all the rest of it. Got an ear-chopped photo with him and that, you know, classic, yeah. But I was at the table. Shouldn't laugh. Yeah, no, yeah. Class, mate. All my heroes, know, Tyson. I yeah, that guy was. And I said to myself, listen, I've tried to see a few times. You were in Wrexham, I said, and he remembered you, because you used to stay at the Lanky's. You know, and... I said, I've missed you a few times. He said, ⁓ no, tonight, today, you've met me now, this is great. And I said, listen, I said, one of my friends with me, Craig, he's had his tattoo of you here. And I asked his security if he can come in, if he could sign it. The security said no. He said, where is this lad? Where is this guy? I said, he's here, Craig, he's coming in after me. He said, bring him in. So we lifted up, had Tyson, great portrait of him here. And Tyson signed it. And the next day, mate, he got it tattooed, yeah, like it's fucking class. ⁓ Look at it. ⁓ So I met him and then we sat down afterwards and I was talking to a group of lads and one of them mentioned Alan. says he's really difficult. trainer. Yeah. And I said that's down the road. He wouldn't answer his calls, he wouldn't answer his texts and I know the guy said to me it's hard to get hold of him. He only trains certain people. He's picky. persevered, finally got with him. job. Ah mate, sessions were phenomenal, I learnt so much. that's kind of part of you, isn't it? Yeah. Just keep going until you get it. Yeah, totally. Okay, you can apply- out in the book, like you would, you know, I'm gonna do this regardless. Yeah. It's like the Arctic Heads of Spositions, you know. Yeah, just persevere. You start off with a crevasse. Oh mate, we'll get on to that one. But you see, Alan then said to me, at the end of the boxing session, now and a half in, he always finishes me off with a big beast in session whether it's hitting with a hammer, barrels, all that sort of stuff after loads of rounds on the pads. Technical, working hard, get a sweat up, do the big circuit and then finish me off on the treadmill walking at maximum with the backpack on, the old Bergen with dead weight in it, right, but punching the dumbbells. Mate that was brutal. Danny says you that. Yeah, he's like you loved that don't you? I said I love this. stay on there 20 minutes then fine. goes, you need to go up Snowdon. I said, what the hell? I've heard of Snowdon, but how do I get there? What do you do? He told me, he says, don't go up the pig. No, no, no. Don't go up any of the ones, but the lamb bearers, he said, because it's open to all the elements. You'll feel all the, he said, that's what you want. Don't be sheltered. He says, take this weight with you. So I took the dead weight, mate. That's water and dead weight, ah, that's horrendous. And he says, you've got to do it in under an hour 45. Yeah, good, yeah. Bang, did it. He said, what's next? He says, you did it. I said, I did it. What's next? So we just get up in the game. Yeah, so what he's doing is he's, yeah, he knows that you need. Yeah, he knows That's what you need. Totally. Bring on the next challenge. This will be good for you is basically what he's doing. Definitely, definitely. And that's when I decided I'm going to do it three times up Snowdon with the weight on. Yeah, I love it. for MS on Father's Day 2016 there, raised over five grand for it. Yeah. Did you do it a lot of people? Yeah, I had one of my clients and he was a top fan of Clarky and he actually, he come out while we doing it. Yes, Yes, yes, did two with me. as gay. He came out as gay, totally. I didn't even know it. Funny though, because he never talked about women. Most people do, don't they? But he didn't. But anyway, that was that. He came up with me twice, just for that little bit of motivation, and it worked, mate. So we smashed that in under 12 hours, mate, as target was. 27 miles in total. Yeah, it's a day. Oh, it's a great day. Well, it was pissing with rain all the rest of it. Both our phones were Totally broken, mate. We were there five minutes on the hairdryer. You know what? What were the redo path there? Yeah. It's finally like dry our phones out down there, you know, because it was soaked, mate, ruined. Never forget they were broken. I go... Snowden every year. you see that's what we've bought what do you take for that then? You walk-ins or something yeah? Mixture yeah. So last time I just did Pig Track up to the summit and back down. Now I normally do Crib Gock. Yeah. Or my favourite is the Watkins Path at the back. That's the most brutal one, innit, in terms of like, that is... Yeah, it's good. I really like it. It's tough going. Most arduous one, it says down there. That's the one I use for the training for Who Dares Wins the week out before I set myself. gonna load this up, £55. Yeah, this is why I've moved here. The mountains is what you need, innit. here to train, not the only reason, there's plenty of reasons. because obviously some of the races I do are massive and you've got to super strong legs so I'm just training in mountains exactly the same. Even if it's slow you can't beat that elevation. And then for the mountains... But like if you did it, if you start wearing a bit of a lightweight investment on the day that you do it without the weight, you'd be flying. I've always got the weight. Yeah, you always got the weight. Most things I do, I'm dragging something or carrying Good man, see? Makes a difference, don't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you've to do it that way. So what else with regards to training then has really helped you? Because I think that's what I want to get across to people because clearly you had what I would call a traumatic childhood. That's only a little bit of No, I know because I was going to say your brother... was 25, he was 22. For me, mom, that's the worst thing. That's the worst thing. It's not as bad for me. Worse for him, he was in a dark place for long time. You've still gone through that and you love him and this family thing. Yeah, I've got photos on my phone. I was going to put them in the book, but didn't want to do it in the end, but of the car. I'll have to show you later on the car, how we got out of that. I only caught up with my mate the other day, last night in fact, and we went out, know, I said, look at this, I was gonna put this to the book, because I'm gonna put our photos to the book now. And he said, oh yeah, we'll put that in. And I was like, well, but it's real life. It's real, man. yeah. So that, well, what I'm getting at is, that's a lot, like 25, were you? Yeah. It's a lot of family trauma and... So outlet wise, you've got your training, power lifting, running up Snowden, power lifting, There was no days off, mate. I was constantly in a huge auto immune response. Just terrible, terrible like cortisol from the roof. you know what? I tell people you can't always fly above the clouds. No, no, no. got dip below sometimes. But I never dip below. I say that, but I, you know, you're 110 % over. I can't help it. Until I get sick. Okay, and then... Yeah, then I have So you're burning a candle at all ends. basically yeah I just can't help it yeah I'm just like you know if I here's the thing if I don't train and beast myself if I don't do the boxing yeah not competitive anymore but they don't do that or anything out in the mountains I'm being on the mounts for a while I can't sleep yeah you know I know that you're like that too much maybe yeah I used to be yeah Pretty at peace. I have quite a quiet mind. I suppose because when you were in the Marines, you were allowed to be switched on. Yes. lot of the time, right? Yeah, I'm very calm. But that doesn't mean... No, that's a good thing to have. You need to show me how to... I do a lot of mindfulness work before I do big events or mountains. So a lot of like... Visualisation, like or...? Visualisations. I quiet my mind a lot. So I like purposely try and wind myself down. Like meditations, but I do it when I'm running. So I do lot of miles. Yeah, I just like to... So I don't... A lot of the time I don't listen to any music. Yeah. I just experience everything that's around me and just take it That's the thing when we're in the Arctic and you know yourself. Exactly. Miles and miles and miles of just pure silence. just... I was making music out the sound of the skis Yeah and poles. Yeah. You know you don't need any music. I'll be there mate. Yeah. Because thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking food. What would I be eating right now? I'm just thinking of food all the time or thinking of things. Well, back home, missing everybody back home. It's another story, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, but that... So, yeah, that's a really good point. And the ar... So, for me, the Arctic's, perfect environment. ⁓ yeah. People don't understand it, do they? Some people might, but I don't... No. I'd say... Yeah. It's a difficult place. And you get this across in the book, by the way. Right. It is a difficult place for people to understand why you'd even be doing it. Yeah. Okay, you get out of your comfort zone. Yes. Right? And in order to grow, you need to be out of your comfort zone. Yeah. So is that why you're doing the Arctic as you do? So how many expeditions have done? now. Four, yeah. Four. I do more, but there could be a fifth. Yeah, yeah. But as you get older and you've got family and like, of like... Responsibilities. Like when I found out Cravast in 2017, I just took my arms out like that. Was that day one? Day one, 45 minutes in. Here's the thing, you know yourself with the skins. By the way, skins are the belt that you put on the bottom of skis so that you can gain traction to move. Yeah. Do you do a full skin or do you do a half skin? I've got all. Do a full skin, top to bottom. five different types of Really? That's interesting. But the skins kept coming off. Half skins. Yeah, half skins. Most of time. Yeah. Full skins. I've got two different types and then I've got different types of You use the full skins to get up the right? I down my half skins so that I can... Glide? Yeah, a lot more, yeah. So if you're going uphill, would you add a bit more skin to it just to give you more traction for going uphill or not? Known as hills. It depends on the size of the hills. Yeah, you see, this is the thing. It's the bane of my life, those hills. hate them. But I could get up Heronbone half skins on quicker than what I would on full skins. Technique isn't it? genuinely need to get better. I need to train more because the winner of the Arctic spine that did had no full skins whatsoever. just had tiny skins and he was just light weight backpack. Was it flat a lot though? That's 13 and a half thousand meters of elevation. How does he do that then? Because he's a monster. He's heavy though. No, no he's a bit heavier than me. Right. But he's world-class skier. Yeah, he's got that technique down. He just heron bones everything so there's no, you he's not putting his Oh you tried that, you're going backwards, that's what happened. He took the skis off at the end. Yeah, it's And stupidly, didn't realise I was in a crevasse field. Yeah. And that was it, almost curtains. And that was your first one? Yeah, they pulled me out. They said you were lucky there, a guy died down there last year, same area. And his words were, he came out looking like an ice cube. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Stuck like that. So my only, I haven't had much to do with crevasses in the Arctic. All my crevasse works up the mountains. So huge ones on Denali. Big gaping holes, right? Big ones. I went to Kyrgyzstan years ago. 2019 there's some big crevasses there some big ones in Mont Blanc actually going up the three months up the back. Yeah I'm glad I didn't see any of them ⁓ Yeah So what else do you think you get out going to the Arctic then? ⁓ mate, there'll be people listening to this who are interested in Arctic stuff because that's kind of that's kind of what it's the whole survival mate. Okay. It's all about like admin ⁓ to kill you, but it doesn't want you to survive either. That's exactly it. Do you know what, when I had hypothermia in that, just on the board of hypothermia in that sleeping bag mate, because basically what happened was... Yeah, because you you get into your tent at night and you know, you're absolutely Baltic, but you want to warm it up. So you have that steam room effect. You got the cooker going, but you don't give enough ventilation. It's lovely and warm at the point. You've got it on, you turn it off and it all froze over, And it was just dripping in the night. Yeah. And you were sitting by, you're soaked. Which is normal. And freezes. Yeah. So all the down, mate, was just ruined. Okay. Mate. So have you managed to sort that? Yeah. You got on top of that admin. And that's part of it, isn't learning every time. that. What I did want to ask you was, because you were... you wear a Gore-Tex jacket over, so I don't do that. I have a Paramo jacket. I've used Paramo before now. vents, everything. Paramo's fantastic stuff. So I use Paramo in arctic conditions, because it really... I had the Paramo, I had Paramo air pants, they were fucking brilliant, Really, really good. they're well over 10 years old, they're gone. And the wind wouldn't get through. Yeah, they could. The wind, was so good. But I did wear Gore-Tex. did, because I had to, because I had ⁓ my merino wool bass layer then I had a wooly jumper on then I had me down jacket on, this is the sleep now. And then my Gore-Tex jacket on top of that because it was so wet. Because your sleeping bag was wet. Yeah, I had to wear the Gore-Tex. Because obviously everything gets wet again. But when I was skiing, it would be just a merino wool base layer and the Gore-Tex I'm guessing you run quite hot. Yeah, and that has to come off. Yeah, because you're sweating. Yeah, it has to come off, mate. And even sleeves are up and obviously the gloves are off. people don't understand they see photos of you in the article just one layer like what's going on you know I summited Denali in one single one one merino top and one really lightweight Patagonia down jacket with no gloves on. Yeah, can believe it. And that's one of the coldest mountains on the planet. I believe it. Because you just get hot. Mont Blanc was cold. We were up there and just went there. ⁓ Mont Blanc. And that was like, know, and get red on there. ⁓ that last bit though. Yeah, the outs. Yeah. But yeah, that was it. So I fully recommend like the Gatwick. But I only put it on when we stop usually. I start with it on the Gore-Tex. If it's snowing hard, you've got to it on, but you you vent it and everything. And pace yourself. Good, yeah. If you're doing that spine weight, you can't pace yourself. No, there's no such thing. But that's pacing yourself. is pacing yourself. You can, but you've still got to... And this is what a lot of people, I think, get wrong, is they do all the training, but they don't know what it's like to go 30 mile plus every day, dragging everything. That's the thing. And unless you do it, that's the only way you're going to know. Yeah, you've got to do it one day. nine on the road. Every single day getting up at like 0600 or whatever. Yeah you were like you were getting three hours sleep weren't you? Yeah. turn the screw. Yeah, yeah. It's different. But that's why so many people DNF it is because of the admin. get, you know, say day one's all right, but then day two, you're a little bit wet. Day three, you get a little bit wetter, then you're cold. Then Then that's when the mental side comes in. Yeah. And that's, that's the You're either looking for the nearest road, So are you hallucinating much? Oh mate, yeah. I kind of find it funny at times, like, but it's quite sketchy. Yeah. Like the shapes of the, in the snow. Did you get that too? With the horizon? I saw on this last trip, every single shadow was a different type of wizard. It was bad. And every tree, because I was in the mountains in northern Sweden, so there's a lot of trees and they're covered in snow and there were different types of animals and some days it was like horror, some days it was like amazing and joyous and then like northern lights coming over but I was so sleep deprived that luckily legs just kept going. I think you got through that because of the Marines, I not. I think it's a mixture of things. reason I got through it is because to be honest with you, is because I lost a lot of good mates who don't get the opportunity to do these things and I have the power of it with me and that's part of my recovery and working myself out and stuff like that. was going ask you that later on, but you told me. What makes you tick? Everyone's different, right? Everyone is different. The biggest reason I also completed it was because I wasn't there to prove anything. Right anyone that was there to prove anything had no chance of finishing that I was there to show to myself I am who I think I am and and that I can suffer and accept that I'm gonna feel shit, except that I wanted to quit every day about 100 times. And that's just alright. Yeah, but listen, don't you agree that the pain that you're going through at that time, the discomfort, the agony, it lets you know you're alive, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. You're alive, you're feeling it. And I was definitely alive. Yeah, because you know that there's gonna be an end. So you'll be back home in your silk pyjamas sipping your cup of tea sooner or later. And one of the things I always tell myself is this will end. Yes. And it always does. That's exactly it. And then you look back and you're like, ⁓ bloody hell. But doing that, the quicker you do it, the quicker it's over, Racing, yes. When it comes to mountains, they're a different because mountains, a lot of my trips are... weeks, four weeks and it's a long old slog. And yes it's a bit of a race to the top I'm terrible at altitude so I have to go slower in order to not die. And I know you spent some time in the Andes yeah and we'll get to that in a minute. But yeah that is like an amazing playground for mountaineering. I went last year to Alpimaio and... What was that like? I got sick. got really bad. What's the altitude where you're feeling sick? Five and a half. Really? And I ended up having to, my mates basically had to evacuate me. Seriously? got hate really bad, the lungs filled up with fluid. Yeah, can't get out of there with that. Yeah, all it was was because the airline lost my bag, so I was a day behind the guys, then I had to catch up, and I'm already shit at altitude, and it just got me. Oh, mate. So for people that don't ⁓ know you were also in SAS Who Dares Wins. Yes. So I want to know, one, I've never ever seen it. That's interesting. Yeah, so it'd be nice to hear from someone who's actually been on it what it's like. OK. And two, why you went on it. Yeah, OK. Yeah, just a bit of insight. Great. OK, well, as you know, I tried seven times to get in the military. Yeah. The main reason would be asthma. Yeah. So. ⁓ applied for the second series. What year are we talking I think that was 2016. Okay so ⁓ ten years ago. and I went to, I think everyone gets the opportunity to go, I to Newcastle. do the physical test. Like a selection for the show. It's just to see whether you've got... See what your personality is like. Yeah, not just that. get interviewed until you pass the fitness. Okay. there was a number of... think there's a barrier to entry. Yeah. So you've got your bleep test. You've got your cyclists. You've got your jenny cans. Press ups, sit ups, all that sort of stuff, right? So the first time we did it... There was, it was a fire service who put us through the test, okay? So I think it was 10.2 on the bleep. So that's not difficult, right? Really. So did that. And I was running a lot at the time, right? So I found that one okay. Got through it. Anyway, what happened was they said, we haven't got time now to do your interview. Okay. Okay. So I did the interview a few days later or something. Anyway, they said, great, brilliant, we're gonna get in touch with you. I felt positive. And I got a phone call from them while I was training somebody. And I remember saying, ⁓ that's channel four. and minnow films are called. And she said, oh, answer it, answer it. I said, no, no, no, I'm doing your session. If it's important, they'll leave. I was wanting to say, yeah, we want you on the show. So I let, didn't answer. I trained her and then I got the voicemail, listen to it, can you call us back right away? Couldn't get through, couldn't get through, couldn't get through. Passed it on to somebody else apparently. Next one in line, I'm a-outrageous. So I was like, fuck that show. I fucked that up, I didn't watch it ever again, fucked that for two years. Something, I can't remember what happened, why I thought about again. you just had a realisation that Series 4 came about and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna go for it again. I don't know, can't remember whether someone said something like that, I can't remember, I normally can remember these things, but went for it. Anyway, same thing, Newcastle. Yeah. I'm gonna hear me again, This time it was the military who were taking the test, right? Nice. And there was this one from South Africa, yet female. She said to me, Anthony, because that's my first name, you're here again. You're going to get through this time, aren't you? I thought, how the fuck is she going to Yeah, I I'm gonna get through this time. I passed it last time if you remember. She said, yes you did. That's a nice bit of positive But I remember on the bleep test she stopped me on one. said, that was a bit too short that time, make sure the next one, otherwise you're out. I said, right, so I picked up the pace and I remember that. Anyway, so this time it was, they were, I feel that they kind of in a way, they know who they want and who they don't want. Yeah, they must Because there was people get through, set up a test, right? I think it was something like, what was it, 50? I can't remember if it was 50 something in a minute or something like, was it? And anyway, you're your sit ups. So I'm holding your feet. You're doing your reps, right? And then this fella's walking around, his PTI's walking around. And he'll say to me, he said, how many did he just do? And I said, yeah, he did 53. He says, nah, take four off. His hands came away. You're gone. I did it like spot on, there's no way, know, press up everything. Which is how things are normally done, like maroons in the gym. But there was some good potential, lads there, they got kicked out. Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, but surely the whole thing's not Yeah, I don't know. It kind of felt that way in a way, like, you know. ⁓ Anyway, so that... showed some NAS going back anyway, haven't you? And then they obviously noticed that. Yeah, and I was well prepared for it mate this year. Yeah, which is great. But then you see got through that, then I had the interview in... was in the Lake District. was climbing... Where was I? I went up some mountain. Anyway, I an interview on the phone. Yep. ⁓ forget it was a red hot day, the phone packed up. I had to get to the aircon on the phone in the middle of a freaking interview, it so important. Anyway, they were keen on the story. And then the next stage then was your medical. I was panicking, I had to go to the doctor. The asthma was mentioned but I still got on the show and then you have to go see a psychiatrist who I dealt with for two years after because of what happened with my son being born while I out there. And that messed my head up big time. anyway, and then there was different stages. There was another fitness test in Harley Street down there where they're checking how quickly you recover, all that. was great. I loved it all. And then obviously you're in. And then the point was to prove that I was fit enough. that I was good enough. you know, and I loved it though, because it was all like, you know, waking you up at like two, three in the morning, kicking the doors. Everyone get the fuck outside now. Oh, just got freaking to sleep. Like, you know, people snoring there and I'm a light sleeper mate. You know, in the end I was sleeping with my boots still on. I was just like waiting for it. Let's go, I'm ready. You know, I loved it. So you'd have, you only see 10 % on Tully. Remember it's 45 minutes. In your book you said about one thing you did as a team and it never made the cut. ⁓ man, yeah, that was a one. And I'm guessing that's kind of... So how many of you were there? 25. Yeah, one quick within an you do loads of stuff, but they obviously just cut it for the show. Yeah. Yeah, they you're doing so this is a thing. I haven't seen it. Yeah, I have no idea but I'm guessing you're through like a normal day Are you doing quite a lot of a lot of tasks a lot of fears? Yeah a lot of tasks and the days were shown differently because the boxing was on day four and I thought on TV boxing's on day one or two Okay, a week one or week two and I'm like, where's the boxer? When's it coming out? Reven to go it already? Yeah, and it was day four and they've already done two tasks that day. We're all exhausted and we walk into this warehouse and we're like ⁓ there's the gloves. Now it's on, I'm thinking I'm fucking knackered, this is mad. So I'd line up against the wall and it'd pair you up. Now the lad I wanted was Cameron, he did MMA, right? Yes, he wanted a proper scramp. wanted, yeah. Same size as me, I thought it'd great anyway. You didn't get that though, did you? No, no, I got a woman, typically. Because I had to go with her. The cameras are on you everywhere all the time, remember? course, yeah, yeah. And she's the coolest of the beast. It sounds like it's a stressful kind of she was jaffling joking. She was doing a, we're doing the rat run down this 200 meter, know, rock face, I love that. You know you're safe, mate, because you're all clipped on and that. I'm trying to run, you know yourself, and it was pulling me back. I couldn't get the speed up. You see Olly Ollerton, like run down it. I'm like, I won't do that. I was like doing slow motion. I couldn't get going. It was falling over and everything, mate, because it's too tight. Anyway, she was laughing and joking because she was panicking before she did it. She was like, D-D-A-A. We were all like, yeah, well done. Aunt Middleton was there, right? You're all going to pay for it now. That's when we got humongous beast in me. Yeah. Up and down the snow by carrying each other until one quit. Yeah. One of the girls who had pneumonia. So when you had a beast in, yeah. Cause obviously I've had some beast in my course. I also trained, I also trained recruits for a few years. So I used to deliver the beast. love that. Um, yeah. So was it always one, I'm guessing you played, you did pays to be a winner or they told you pays to be winner. It's bollocks. Then I was pretty yeah one during training it did pay to be a winner ⁓ And then two did they just beast you until people quit? Yeah, okay. That's cool. I like yeah, I like I like the fact the first few days no one wants to go so everyone's just it goes on and on going in the end they're like okay we want some sleep so we fuck off back now to bed but it will end but the next day there's always someone who goes but like the women weren't taking their bras off when they went to the cold water they kept their bras on because the camera crew were in the freaking room you see while the women were getting changed no wonder they kept them on I understand that then they were wet, they got pneumonia. Yeah, course, You know, were Especially on the chest if it's cold. Yeah, within days of crackling, you should have heard the lungs crackling. Actually, before, do you wear a cold weather mask when you're in the Arctic? Yes, both, let me tell you something, it's good question. Sorry to go back to that. You hate it. Yeah. Do you know why I hate They do. They do. I think put tape over your nose is good, but the beard mate, it's all good. it freezes up. that this one thing I haven't written down, beards is an issue. It really is because of the moisture mate. Yeah. the pain of it, beard. Mine was like yours mate. It works when you got that headwind. But then it doesn't work. It's kind of like... No, it's... So if I was to do that race again, the Arctic spine, I would have it a lot shorter because it welded to my top. ⁓ I actually figured it out later on. I actually doubled up on different layers and I was fine. But, you know, I could have not dealt with that. Yeah, it looks good and all that, but it's not. But you see, the buffer got wet. Your pictures. Yeah. Yeah, mate. I've got plenty of pictures. Yeah, I know you well, know. But like, you know, the mask is good. The mask is definitely good. But again, it turns into ice. Yeah. I don't know, I took it off an awful lot. keeping that cold air off your lungs is imperative. head down. I've had some issues. Always head down, Where crackling like that. ⁓ yeah. as soon as I develop a cough, call it like mounting cough. And that's not altitude related, it's the air you breathe, the dry air and stuff like that. Once I start going, that's it. I may as well give up now because the lungs just get worse and worse. I think I'm quite susceptible. So I used a cold air mask on the last race. And you found it? Absolutely golden. Was it plastic or was it like neoprene? I've got like, it's like polystyrene. Yeah, okay, With a white, like it's blue, with a white filter in the middle. Right, so it's not an open hole like So mountaineers, know, some really good mountaineers wear them and I was like, I'll just get one Yeah. anyway we digress so S.A.S. who does win so getting beasted which I enjoyed yeah yeah you had to enjoy that it is fun yeah you don't know how long it's gonna go on for things are good I always enjoyed beast you say enjoy but at the time you're like oh my god but you know what I was just thinking like you know about Foxy you know he's he's he gives it he's very how would I say he's kind of a sarcastic in many ways a lot like most of time. He's got classic military humor. Yeah, yeah. Like I was like, when I'm going to fight that number 13, I said, I'm not going to tune in a woman, I said. He said, shut the fuck up, go show them now. Okay, staff. Yes, staff. You know. But then we were doing a beast in a parade square where you know where you're carrying your dragon and all the rest of it. And then we'd run around, run around and then... I don't know how it was but I came in first in and I'm on the spot jog and I said what do want me to do? He said just jump. So I'm doing like high tuck jumps. said no no no no no. He said just jump. Just on your toes. He's letting me off here. Yeah but he's not silly. knows the game. Yeah but I'm thinking if he's making it easy on me now he's gonna be beasting me later on a bit more. But it wasn't that, it was just... He just wants you to keep moving. Yeah. Yeah, so when... Cos you were in the lead, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, so what you do Cut me in, won the first game, Yeah, and in the military, guys that come in first, you'd say, don't stand still, but just mark time. Right. So you just keep your legs moving so that it shows that you're not staying still. That's all he is doing. Do know that? He was different to Wally Ollerton. Because after we got ambushed... Yeah. I think I wrote this in the book, did I? We got ambushed, the bus... got you know what they call it the flames come out and everything like ⁓ they come in, balaclavas on, drag you off, get into the know like on your knees and heart, stress positions and then made to folly, to DS, all the odds and go off into the distance right we're legging it then down jacket on still everything like you know going and turning around looking I don't want to be in the back you got this thing about not being last like then Mark who ⁓ he basically he was a top, I call him the T-1000 from Terminator 2. I've never met anyone like him, And he is by the way, just to go off a little bit, he's just broken for the second time now, the world record running a marathon with the whole fire, fireman. ⁓ yes, I saw Mark. at London Marathon. Yeah, that's him. On the Arctic spine. Right. The guy that had the record before was on that. ⁓ Irish guy. Right, so Mark's basically... He beat his time, both good. Totally, I couldn't understand that. Mark though, he was like this machine and he overtook Olly Ollerton. And Olly was like, don't you bug overtake me! I've got 50 press ups now, so I run him past Mark and I'm like, what are doing? He goes, I overtook the PS mate. I'm like, aw fuck. ⁓ So when he gets to the top, right, and there's Olly, yeah, he's ready quick mate. honestly I was like you're on EPO you're on something. No you just get run over. But he had size mate, was big. I've seen him do 165 kilo bench press, who does that? He's a cyborg mate. They exist though. I'll tell you something now which I didn't write in the book or not. The why he was the way he was, that was in the April he lost his wife to suicide. And he saw everything, mate. And this was in September, we filmed it. Now here's, he's still going through that. And this, what year was this in? 2018. 2018, so yeah, so eight years ago. good on him for still doing stuff Yeah, Because you kids as well. No, mate, no. mean, yeah, anyone losing there. But just to see that, anyway, so that's why he was on the show. Yeah, I'm not surprised. to do his release, to get it, you Yeah, to do something out of his comfort zone and push himself. Obviously he was going to get to the end. But anyway, at the top of this hill, we're waiting and I'm up there, happy to be in the middle and all he's like, right, everyone jog on the spot, right? Keep moving. because we've got to wait for the rest of the slow arses to come up, right? Yeah. So I'm literally taking my time stamping, trying to catch my breath. He's turned around, so I'm like, okay, get me down jacket off. I can put it around my waist now, like, yeah, just step, just step. Everyone's doing high knees. I'm I'm pacing. He turned around and he's like, you, get out here now. He says, everyone here, make everyone here do burpees until the rest of them come up and count them. So start off making a few mistakes. He start again. They're all going mad at me now, aren't they? Oh, they're making me do burpees. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. Whatever, you know. It's not you. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, later on, we crack on, we do the further distance, and that's where we get into the barracks, know, like the parade square and all that, whatever. Yeah, like a parade square. Yeah, that's it. And then I thought when Foxy said to me that day, do these tuck jumps, I thought he was going to say something in the lines of give me more of a beast and at this point I'm already working at 100%, like, you know, I don't be out there getting any more beast and I'm not going to quit on this, but you know, this is only like day three. Yeah. You know, so it's kind of playing with your head a lot and that's what they're doing. But that is what all that type of work is. Yeah, and that one that wasn't on the show was when we had to... I was with Mark, Petra the Mole. Swedish Special Forces, was a, when I saw that come down that rat run, was like, she's done that before, and I said that, you've done that before, never done it, I said you have so done that. So is that what you said was a mole? Yeah, she was. Because I've never seen it, do they put people who are in the military in Yeah, but I was wondering why there was this woman, she was Swedish. That's funny. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Maybe I'll start watching it, so I was quite interested. stronger by it, every day she said, every day I'm like, ⁓ thanks so much, you know. Because Al Middleton said that morning, he says, number three, you're in charge of this team, if you fuck this up you're all gone. You're gone, the team stay, you're gone. I'm like, ⁓ man, I don't want to go yet. We had to basically get them over this building in the snow, there was three of them at the fastest time. And it was just a case of like, how am going to do this? And there's Billy being like, come on, get, you know, motivate your fucking team, get them like, I'm trying to motivate myself sitting at the top, pulling them all up mate. Sketchy, like, you fall off there, you're going to break something, you know? Yeah. But we did it in the fastest time. Good. I was well happy. Congratulations, I fuck off from him, right? But at least I stayed in. That's not what you're there for. But he was only playing on my head. In their mind though, they're, you know, I know what it's like. They're trying to motivate you in a sense, aren't they? Yeah. And obviously this is... This is like a competition, would you call it a competition? Yeah, anyway, is. Team effort, of course. It if you were team player. We had a strong team that day, no wonder we won it. I enjoyed it. wish it was on telly that, but you know. so. So then what happens after that then? So you ended up leaving because you're. So A-Don, he should have been born about four days before, three or four days before I went out there. And then he was born a week into the show. ⁓ I was, see I said to stupid, this is weird, like you know, I was on the plane next to a midwife, she was a midwife on the show. Yeah, I read that. Yeah, and why'd they put me next to her? you know. As soon as she said she was a midwife, I was like, alright, I said, listen there, you got a secret for you, I'm expecting a baby, but don't say nothing, said, because I don't want anybody knowing. Using it against you. She fucking used it against me, didn't she, later on, Part of game, innit? It did get into my head, So I was thinking, alright, here we go. Everyone's like, what, you got a baby? Do you when? And I'm like, now. And then they're thinking about it. You're lying in bed thinking, is he born, is she born, who is it, a boy or a girl? Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, and in the end I was like, I know. What the fuck am I doing here? I like, I'm gonna hand in the band, right? Find out, and then go back in. and then it didn't work. I was like, nah, you've done the right thing. Go be with your family. I'm like. No, you don't understand. I just wanted to find out, like. And I think, should I have waited for them to mention it to them and all this sort of stuff? I didn't go into the mirror room, you see, because I said to them, why weren't I asking them to the mirror room where you get interrogated or not? You get asked questions, why are here? What's this and that? Because he said I was just cracking on. I wasn't drawing any attention to myself. I was just getting on with it. Because I tried to be the middle man. You tried to play the Grey Man. Yeah, the Grey Man. That's him. The Grey Man. The Grey Man. Yeah. And there's a time and a place for a Grey Man. Yeah. So in like Royal Marine training, it's good to be Grey Man in phase one. So there's two phases. Right. And then in phase two, it's good to come out a bit of your shell. Really? Yeah, because then you want to show the DS what you can do, who you are. Right. bit more personality yeah you start being if you carry on being the gray man in phase two then it's like you're you're then pinged then really interesting yeah because then it becomes tactical the real job like soldiering yeah it's not just beastings of it like that side of it's kind of gone but then it becomes a thing of like you know becoming an actual soldier because they were Marines weren't they so they may have been having that sort of like that concept and put it into the show then right? Yeah probably. I don't have no idea. we all come from the same place. So it would have you know. And then you see then it was the interrogation and a few days later which is what I really wanted to go on. Yeah. and then luckily Olly Olson did his, had his break point denied using the same interrogators So is that like a thing that he runs that Yeah, on the side. Yeah, nice, nice. Just to give the civvies Yeah, he's supposed to be really nice guy. Top fella, mate, yeah. Yeah, he's doing big things out there in Dubai or something now. He wrote the foreword for me in my book. Yeah, yeah, that's all that. Which is great, you know, I'm very grateful. You know, you can message him and he'll... you know he gets back to me. He's a decent guy. So DS wise then? Yeah. How did you get on with everyone and what did you do? DS ways. Right. Okay. And is there any of that that didn't get in the book? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ Yeah, there's some personalities there. Yeah, at Middleton like, you know, I met him once after the show, seven months later, it was great. I did a show in Blackpool, great to meet him, got me photo, got me book signed, everything else, chatting for about five minutes, whatever, it was great. I just wanted to know, was I going to the end? And he was like, yeah, you know, you got through to the end, but you went, he said, but you did the right thing. I'm like, yeah, but what have I, he says, well, we don't know, you know, but you got to the end, but you didn't get to the end. interrogation, I just wanted to, you know, it doesn't matter now, does it? And you did the thing after the, yeah, yeah. So he was like, it was quite funny. We got this, you know where you do, ⁓ it's like rescue, ⁓ evacuation and whatnot. We got shot with paintballs up there, this way. We had to jump up this mountain, Obviously with our Bergens on, with our sandbags in to give the extra weight. And then I'm cracking on going up there. I'm literally swinging my arms, getting that pace going, right? So I don't want to be at the back. And I'm at Milton standing right next to me. And I said to him, you're blowing hair. said, you've got no way to look at the little, little farty back. It's what you call a Bloomberg. And he was like, yeah. And he was like, I already remember that. said, I'm like, okay. I'm thinking, oh, what am going to get now? And then later on, we got shot with paint balls, mate. He's opening up on me. yeah, yeah, Let's just get a bit of humour, like, you know. But yeah, he's a, that was pretty much, when you're thinking off camera. And then, because I was like the, what do call it, recruit that day, one of the days where you have to report if anyone's got an illnesses or injuries. Yeah, you're like in charge. Yeah, you're in charge of that. Yeah, what is the name? Like you're in charge of the recruiting charge. Like the IC. Yeah. So I had to go to him and shout, yes, he comes out. And I said, listen, this number. this and whatever and all that report back you know where he says okay right he said yes yes what I said yeah that's it yes and I said yes what I'm like yeah that's it I said ⁓ yes stuff he said yeah now fuck off jog on so I runs in there later on and I'm like fucking hell I said not even on the camera as I said and he's making me say anyway next thing you know it's like yeah they're listening to it all aren't they? Like him, I... Yeah, I find him interesting. Yeah, he's done some good stuff, but you know what? He's done some epic stuff because of, you know... If it wasn't for the show, where would he be? wouldn't be able to do Everest. He wouldn't have been able to do all those amazing things he's done. but even being completely honest, even like his Everest documentary, was just like, you've acted like an absolute dick. Like, just find it difficult to gel with. Yeah, I don't know whether it's been exaggerated and certain things. It's TV, It's TV, yeah. He knows how to play the cameras, of course. I'll tell you something. Yeah, you don't see this on telly, right? So the gates open up, right, in the morning. all in like single file, two lanes, like you know you're going out and there's probably 16 of us left or whatever and then he says you know he sets off quick, quick. We're all behind him John, we don't know how far we're going. I'm thinking in my mind it's a three mile, it's one pace and we're all there and it's only about half a mile mate. The drolls are there and he's made it look like he's literally left us for dust. And that's not like, I mean, I've never watched it because it's just, He knows how to play the camera. Simple as that. Like, yeah. But that's part of the game. And also all those guys there. they got earn money, the same as everyone else. It's a job and I get that, and I do get that side of it. It changes a bit when guys like that start getting into politics and start saying stuff. that's where it's going now. Yeah. But didn't you see like, ⁓ if I was to send a message now and DM. Oli, Billy, Foxy, they'll always reply. That's my point. We'll see it. Yeah, I mean they seem like really decent blokes. Totally. know, when I am going back to when I was 39 or 40, I wanted to get out the PT game. I was going to give one more shot. I wanted to try. What were you going to give one more shot? I was going to try and merge one more shot. Oh yes. was going to try. Sass Reserves. Yes, Sass Reserves. So 2, 1, 2, 3, correct. So I said to Billy, can you give me some information, give me some help on this? He said, yeah, you want to go direct through You just want to go straight through, but the Royal Welsh were trying to get me to go through the Royal Welsh, do all the basic training stuff. Yeah, and then load onto the course. Yeah. And then I was, so I rang them up and I was talking to them. I think they were in Scotland, I think. Would that be two, one up there in Scotland? I don't know. Two ones. Down south, two, three up there. I was talking to them and they were saying, and I said, listen, I'm going to be honest with you now. I said, I've been, you know, partners in Ireland. I've been firing a few AR-15s in the garden of her family, And somebody saw it, one of the family members saw it and said, you'd only be doing that. They said, they thought I was in the essay and I wasn't, I was on the show. But he said, you can't be doing that because do you realise that there's bodies still in the bog only a few miles down the road from where you are? And I'm like, okay, that's a bit heavy. I got it off Facebook, that was that. It was like fucking firing targets and shooting the bog. looks diplomatically not brilliant. Yeah. So I had a word on the phone and I said, listen, there's a possibility I might be moving to Ireland in the next four years or three, four years. Would you say I should go for it or not? And he said, if it was me, I wouldn't do it. Yeah, not ideal. It's probably what his question was. Is it Northern Ireland or Southern? And I said, I'm down South, Southern. And he still said no. I thought I thought all the troubles in the north. What difference does it make? said to him, he says, no, he says, I wouldn't recommend it. So I thought, you know what? It's probably not a great way to start. Yeah, like later on, it probably wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. But I think as you're into it, if you're trying to enter and that's what you're cut there like, it's just. Yeah. They'll probably see potential problems. Yeah, so I was like, you know what? just got to, like that was, that was current sport then for me then. And I thought like, there's fine. Anyway, it turns out it was like six years before I moved to Wyandam. Yeah, but you know. And then I got... If you lived your whole life thinking, oh, I wish I'd done this, I wish I'd done that, I mean, what have you really got to... I mean, I've got in again, so, you know, but they were keen, was keen, I was going for it 100%. But then you see, then I thought 2020, still want to get out the PT game, just before 2019. And I went to Hereford for the clothes protection, again. Ronin. Ronin. And... They do an amazing med course. Yeah, Freq 4. ⁓ It used to be in Johannesburg. Right. things like that. Loads of mates done similar stuff. was class. You to pass that though first before you got to the next though. Yes, yeah. That was demanding. was in depth, tourniquets, everything you could think of, mate. I really enjoyed that. I've learnt a lot from that. Whether I do it, if anything, you know... So you did the Ronin close protection course in order to kind of get into that world a little bit. Definitely. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do. Hard gig though, isn't it? Very hard. And you know what? They were like, yeah, you're part of the WhatsApp group. You've got, we get contacts here, there and that. The jobs are coming up and it always be, you've got to be ex-military. That's the problem. And my argument was like, well, first of all, you said I'd get load of work because I've done the course. They're doing the course too. Okay. We're not going around with firearms. So the training we've done is the same training that the ex-military would have done, right? Through Ronin. But they just wanted that, we want ex-military. I'm like, ⁓ come on, like, the big juicy jobs. I mean, they're not that big of a GC anyway. No, and then I was like, you know what? And then some of them were coming up, yeah, you're getting an 85 pound for the day, but you've got to fight your accommodation. You're better off being a PT. I was like, oh, forget it. I know so many people that do it. And some guys might get an amazing gig, but majority won't. And it's basically like, in the military, sometimes you have to do like sentry, right? At war, we would have to be on sentry because we're in like a small unit of guys and we've got to like protect the base. Are you fucking, that's basically like doing that job again. ⁓ Outside, that's last thing I wanted to do. Unless it's okay, could maybe be politician or something. might get the odd. clothes protection job that might be amazing. But do know something I learned a lot from it? Yeah exactly. And you can put it into your everyday life. Simple things like when you go out to the pub or the restaurant or whatever you always face the door. When you go in you're looking for the exit straight away. I'm doing all these things and I go into a restaurant and I say to my partner, you know where I'm sitting. It's always the comfy seat isn't it? Have you noticed that? Yeah that is true. we had this discussion on a of I think that I spent more time being a tree surgeon than I have been a soldier. And since I left the Royal Marines, I haven't touched. I did one little go at clay pigeon shooting. And that is it. I haven't touched a rifle, not even interested. I probably will have a go now and then, in the future maybe. You don't fancy going to Poland or anything in future. But you've done it though haven't you? So that's what I mean. Yeah you've done it. There's none of that like, I don't need to wear like clothes that make me look like I was in the military. What they call them the ones who do What do you mean? Yes Yes, yes, yeah, yeah a lot a lot of people wear Sometimes they just like the gear So with regards to the military thing because I find it quite interesting. Do you think that you, has that been a problem for you because you didn't do it? Yeah, I just feel like it's something that I just, I know I would have done well writing that. Yeah, definitely. I know I would have done well. That's a given, I'd say. I mean, let's go to you now, what you've achieved. mean, people listening now, what's that then? What you've achieved? But you just showed me by reading what you've achieved, Saving lives. Yeah, I feel like I could do something. Yeah, 100%. But I would also argue that you have by helping people doing PT, bringing people, like helping with their mindset and like that. And there's different ways to do things. Do I think in my early 20s, that was really good for me? No. Did I save people? Yes. Did I lose a lot of people? Also. I always say to people, just be careful what you wish for. Because a lot of the veterans I've helped, a lot of them have got problems because they never fired around. Not because they fired around. Yeah, because you train for that job and you build up to do the thing. You go and you're on patrol and no one ever shoots at you. ⁓ And that happens to a lot of guys and they really struggle with that and then they hit the booze, they hit the thing and that's why I trained. in order to help people quit the drinking because you can't sort your issues out if your boo isn't heavy. All the other things now you've been sober for so many years now. Yeah, same, know, I haven't drunk. Don't get me wrong, I can drink a Guinness or whatever, can be free in the Irish culture, mate. You've never been No, you see, when I had alcohol poisoning, didn't I? You know, it's all all this stuff, right? know? So when I was 16 to 20, I was totally clean, touch anything and everyone's, I'm training with powerlifters, I'm training with bodybuilders. shape you know in a bodybuilding culture right and I want to go on holiday or to get at least get a bit of size while I'm dieting down I don't go skinny so what do I do wasn't hit the Diana ball with a Diana ball they were like a pig hexagon sort of shape tablets they talk to call the liver Okay. Yeah. It was then. All right. Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it worked. Right. But it amplified everything though. Mentally. Okay. Aggression. Focus when you're training. Yeah. But listen, so I'm going over on holiday. and I'm binging, I don't drink. My liver's already almost freaking pickled from nose and I'm smashing the alcohol on top. Four days in bed, pissing and shitting blood mate. Sleeping upright, I couldn't lie down. Agony mate. That was it, bang, tea total. mean I drank. such a drop of alcohol then or nothing. Nothing that's gonna affect me for years. I mean I... If I was doing steroids at the same time I'd probably be dead. yeah. Luckily I've never been, I've never lifted weights, I've never done anything like No, you've got the natural shape. If you did by the way, just go on into my work zone now. I know exactly what to do with you. Thanks mate. Mate, I can see it right now. I'm I'm not. But you could do. And it's amazing that you do all the mountains. I find if you're a bit lighter, you wrap it on your feet, climbing or the rest of it, great. However, going to the Arctic, the extra body weight makes a huge difference, Yeah, dragging. Oh, mate. So I'm strong. I was dragging 40 kilos for 300 miles. What are you weighing now? What were you weighing then? I was 84 when I went out. I came back as 73. Yeah, well, I can believe that mate. I lost 11 pound out there. Yeah, I was churning some gears. So I can get in a big, like I've got a big engine. I can go and go. But yeah, that's interesting you say and thank you. My granddad, my granddad said he used to power lift and he was like, don't touch it. Really? It just ruined him a bit and he was big on the bike, his big time. trailer right he could turn yeah boy serious fast switch muscle fibers mate from the training he did it with the power look and he can really be like having dish on a bike yeah yeah so so I never touched it and I just ran but I am slightly chunkier than I probably should be yeah but yeah but you've got that farmer look I'm not joking farmers mate seriously my mate Dave Shaw he had a great shape back in the days he was stocky things you know like yourself right and I looked at him and thought I'd love to be stocky like you mate I'd that skinny you know just abs but skinny but he was like anyway I was dead lifting big weight under 84 reps just a chalk like I said in the book you know yeah and I said listen come train with me you know when we were training he loved the bench everyone loved the bench don't I do some deadlifts what's the deadlift like you know I said show you And he was like, how many did you do? I said, I five, he did six. But his back was like that, mate. know, terrible technique. I thought he was going to slip a disc right now, mate. But he did it. Farmer strength, mate. Yeah, farmer strength. Insane. that's, I was tree-sirting for long time too. And you're just carrying stuff and pulling on ropes all day. That's that's bread and butter. Yeah, you're pulling, that's that. and you know. Yeah, lats and arms. They never get tired. Yeah. I said you'd be a strong man, mate. You should be entering competition. I no, no, no. I've said I'll stay away from it. I'm doing it. doing it. And I like my long distance races. Yeah, yeah, course. I know I'm not the shape for it. I used to be a fast runner when I was younger. I knew, even when I was younger, knew I size to be fast fast like I was I reckon a fast switch fibre. I was quick yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you don't get out the short distances no chance it's all long distance no but I've got race in August, 220 miles across Scotland. Do that. And then I would like to get back to doing a bit faster stuff. I'm going to train on a track. Yeah, yeah, technique. yeah. Yeah. Get some muscles back. shape, You've a one sprinting, that's for sure. Right, so. Yeah. This is great. So the book, right? Who's it for then? It's for anyone to motivate anybody who are going through dark times. Anyone who's going through dark times. ⁓ You hear it all the time, ⁓ there's light at the end of the tunnel. But you've got those dark times and my mum always says to me like... You know, every day it'll get better, you know, it's just temporary, you know, right in that moment you might think it's gone forever. It may have been going on for years, but it will improve. just got in like, yeah, my brother, he was in a dark, dark place. He's loved the book, he's read it twice now. Legend. But you know. feel saying everything happens for a reason. Maybe so maybe I couldn't get in the military because I may have ended up in a bad way Yeah, you know, but that's what I mean by be careful what you wish for. I totally agree there. So that's all you've got Say to yourself fine. I agree with that now, know, my mom's been through a lot. She wouldn't want anything else But you know, he met the girl he's with now and she's in a wheelchair also, know, and now he's happy He's out of the dark times, but you know, he tried to his own life at one stage but like He was drinking but he wasn't on any drugs, he smoking and drinking. I would just go to the house and there be cans everywhere and whatever. Now he's like that, now he's great, life is good. So even though he didn't read my book back then, but anyone's going through that... right now it's a good it's a motivator journey in it from yeah from what I would personally class as quite a traumatic upbringing to someone who's driven and doing things that you know are helping you mentally yeah yeah you got a good you may not know right now what it could be and I think the identity piece for me is really important a lot of people I work with have identity issues and I used I had a bit you know when I left the military I still class myself as Dan the Marine yeah I'm not and I haven't been for a long time you know I'm just me that's just who I am the same as when I was a runner when I was younger always class I'm a runner yeah I'm a runner I fucking had like a 10-year break yeah yeah I would I would say I'm a runner you enjoy it's athlete now though yeah I'm an endurance athlete but but I'm also I'm not really pigeonholed in anything I'm just I don't need to label myself with anything and I don't wish I'd done this. that's why it's important to be diverse with what you do as well. Don't just do one thing. Do whatever makes you feel good. Just get out of what you're to get out of that. You know, that negative cloudy dark times just get out of that, you know, and just go and do something that takes your mind away from it. Even yoga mate, even when I was doing a bit of yoga, you're focusing on those positions and those holding that balance or whatever. You're not thinking anything else bar that or what you're on mat. 100%. I love that. So I always ask, one, I want to read out one of the quotes that you put in the book. I'll do that at the end because I think it's really good. But I have a question. What is the one thing in your life that you have changed that's had the biggest impact? One thing in my life that I have changed? Yeah. I think maybe I'm still going through it right now Yeah. ⁓ Very defensive mate. Yeah. Very defensive. The two D's mate. Defensive and destructive. Destructive on myself but destructive on anything around me. Okay. I didn't mention it the book, I destroy whatever's in the... I never forget I smashed a mayonnaise jar in the kitchen, my mum was having a go and I just bang punched it and it went everywhere, there's mayonnaise all over the walls. She said, you're gonna clean up every single bit off that wall right now. I just calmed down, I was like, oh what the fuck have I done? I no joke mate, mayonnaise everywhere and all over the place. I'm just... and quick to react very bad yeah and I want to mention that on who dares wins by the way yeah I wanted them to give me some help yeah well you well okay so so you're quick to react right yeah the first step to you understanding that is awareness yeah at least you're aware of it I am I'm a lot better these days I'm calmer than what and that's why I'm always, every single time I'm training, I'm lifting weights, I'm always challenging, I sit down and I'm just thinking about the weight when I lift and thinking about what's going on, what's going through. So in my company, I make it super simple, Awareness, resilience, and commitment. So you're aware of what you've done. The resilience is you doing the hard things. And then you're committing to it by writing a book, being honest. And it's therapy writing the book, And it's a process. but this is what you're doing. You're on a journey and whether you're at the end of it. out the end of it. just a constantly evolving journey. and you you're getting older as well, start to mellow out a little bit. Like years ago, a party said, you need help. You need to control that anger. But what's going on? I didn't have anyone to sort me out when I was a child. Yeah, 100%. You to learn the I almost kept it going. You imagine what was like when I was younger. Yeah, I can imagine. But now, as I got older, just see it as just a complete waste of energy, complete waste of time, it's very dangerous. Listen, you see how people get sent down for murder or get sent down for doing something because they've got the similar sort of thing but they just don't control it. Yeah, 100%. And when you're drinking, you're taking drugs, you can't never control it. Yeah, they don't have the tools to be able to Yeah, it's all about identifying it and being aware of it. Yeah, 100%. I think they are aware of it but I don't know why they... don't know why, they just maybe need someone like yourself to... Yeah, it's channeling... ...kind of nurture them a little bit. It's the awareness, because it's working out why you do certain things, and normally that's tailored to your past or your upbringing. So, punishing myself makes me feel a lot better. Yeah, and that's what I've had to... I know why I did lots of things, because I've done loads of work. I know why I went in the military. I went in the military because my stepdad... who was in the military got together with my mum and I wanted to show him what I could do. It was the same old thing. I wanted to run really well when I was younger because my granddad used to run and he wanted to see me run. Yeah, but it paid off. This is what I'm saying, but I'm aware of why I did certain things and running really helped. Going in the military has helped me become the person I am today, but it was fucking hard. Hard to deal with loss and grief and things like that, but it's just part of the journey. Does it get better though, it as the years go by? The days, weeks, the months, the years go by? does it constantly stay with because I've been working on it. Do you ever find that you've got something that keeps going on in your mind? you ever find that No, no, no, not at all. And if it does, I'll happily just let it happen and then I'll think about it after. Yeah, because I still think about friends I've lost over the years. Yeah, yeah. It's all right to like it's it you should miss people. Yeah, you should also you should also think those good things about them, like the things you miss are the great things you know about them. Yeah. hold that with you. You don't need to forget about it because they're a part of your life. It's just acceptance. And that's what I do. That's why I do big things. one, they didn't get the opportunity to do it. And two, I've got all their strengths with me all the time. It just enables me to get that extra gear, go that bit harder. Yeah, that's actually 20 % of whatever it is. Normally it from people that have had PTSD. But I call it post-traumatic growth. anything else you want to say about the book and yourself nothing really about myself now but the book yeah a lot of good feedback from it yeah it's really good in that sense and I think it would help a lot of people out there but also there's the adventure side there's a yeah you know Listen, it's just a normal person, you know? It's not like I said at the beginning, I've not got any medals, like you, mate. Yeah? I've not got any of that sort of stuff. Just a normal person, like you know? But you don't have to be, you could be anybody, you know? And go out there and achieve something before it's too fucking late. Yeah, exactly, and I think that's the point. So, well, first of all, thank you. Genuinely, it's been genuine pleasure. Yeah, it's gone quick, it? Yeah, it's gone quick, but you've done loads of cool stuff. You've had a hard time and that's the thing. didn't cover everything but that's fine. No, no, no. That's in the book though, right? A of it's in the book. It's in the book, mate. If anyone wants it, where can they find the book? It's all on Amazon. The Wild Welshman. Wild Welshman, Broken Boy, Unbreakable Man is the title. And I found this one quote that I loved. So this story isn't just mine. It's proof that no matter where you begin, you hold the power to rewrite the ending. The journey to strength, to peace, to purpose is waiting. Not in some distant place, but in the first small step you choose to Yeah. Very good. Right though, isn't it mate? Thanks so much mate. so much. Yeah. You're a legend. Thanks for reading the book. ⁓ mate, mate, it was great. Genuinely. And I actually agree with you. I think it will help people.