Latest / Atomic Rambo Podcast / A British Army Sniper on What War Doesn't Let Go Of | Ted Shirley

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A British Army Sniper on What War Doesn't Let Go Of | Ted Shirley · Atomic Rambo Podcast

• Atomic Rambo: I'm Dan and this is the Atomic Rambo podcast and today's guest is Ted Shirley. ⁓ Hello everyone. And it's ⁓ it's a good thirty odd degrees outside. Yeah, cooking, cooking. I'm ⁓ I'm melting here. So if you see me doing this lots, that's why. Yeah. ⁓ so Ted, you are the author of Afghanistan Sniper. Amazing book. I audio booked it. Thank you. what I would say is that I've been go I went out yesterday in this heat. I finished your book a while back, but I absolutely destroyed myself yesterday. ⁓ did ya. Hot one, yes. Sweat sweat rates through the roof. Yeah. But your book was amazing and it really resonated with me because to be honest, we've had s not the same experiences in Afghanistan. kind of similar in some ways. Our jobs were very different. You were a sniper, I was a point man. Right. And but afterwards, PTSD, recovery, all the things that go with that were there were a lot of similarities in our existence. That's interesting. Yeah. That is good to hear. This is gonna make a good conversation. I mean it's gonna be interesting. Yeah. Because you've ⁓ you've got a lot about you. Charisma. I have, yeah. I've got a lot to say. So do you want to start? Well, start from where you want to start and give people a bit of a Yeah, a bit of a backstory of who I am. So I joined the army in 2006 initially. ⁓ I was in the Royal Wales Fusiliers. Completed my first tour of Afghan in 2008. Was based in Cyprus, which was amazing. What an introduction to your career. We were sort of like, yeah. Or bronze. ⁓ absolutely, mate, covered in gun oil all the time. Living in between Ironapur and Paphos. It was it was really good. ⁓ so I had a great start to my career. ⁓ completed my first tour, which was in Musakala in Afghan. ⁓ so a tasty place and we were part of a QRF there. ⁓ I was a rifleman then. So then came back from there and having sort of proved myself, I had decent head on my shoulders. I was then picked to go on sniper selection out sort of hundreds of people from all over the British Army and then you go through this pre-selection phase and then those that rise to the the top, the cream of the crop, get then sent away and you have a go. So it's a six month-long course starting in Scotland, three months up there, which is the sort of theoretical side of it, the ballistics, how to shoot, weapon system, kit, all that kind of thing. Pass that and then you're off down to Brecon then for three months. Never want to go brecking again. Yeah, we can all we can all say that. Yeah. Everyone knows it's got its own weather system early. Yeah. The just so people are aware, because I don't think people quite realise what goes into a snipers course. I think a lot of people think that you you is it an L ninety-eight? L ninety six. Yeah, that's what I started on. L ninety six, yeah. it it's a lot more about stalking. Yeah, the shooting side of it's probably the Yeah, the shooting side of it's not the biggest part, isn't it? No, it's not. It's you know, albeit it is sort of difficult and learning the sort of calculations that you need to make shots from like, you know, a thousand metres upwards. It's not easy to do, but once you've kind of locked into it, then you're off then. That's when you do the sort of second phase, the tactical bit. So like you said there, the stalking, how to move, read land, read maps, all on your own, moving day, night. No lights, no nothing. You are on your own. So there's only you t that's that's accountable really for Lot of Nightnabs. Lot of night navs, yeah. there's definitely one bit in the book that I know you've read when I I got lost in the mist. ⁓ my god. That was horrible. That was really horrible. Can you explain that for people? 'Cause I I've I ⁓ remember seeing other recruits and things during training. Yeah. Or like on my juniors, for example. Right. With silums on their back. Yeah. And seeing pe different people dotted around like the training area. Yeah. Can you explain what happened? Yeah, so when you're on your own in in the beacons, you've got these little tiny sort of two, three centimetre siloom glow sticks that you put in the back of your kit. And that's just for safety really, so that the S, the staff on the course can basically look through They're night visions and spot you easily, but I thought I saw one of these silums, thinking it was one of the blokes on the course, and ended up running after ⁓ thinking this is gonna be really funny to ⁓ to sort of jump on someone's back and the you know, when they're at least expecting it. And it turned out to be a bloody glow worm. Flying away. It was the worst feeling ever. And then all of a sudden I like, ⁓ shit, I'm lost. ⁓ shit, I'm lost and you're against the time. Yeah, my yeah, that was it, yeah. ⁓ my god. It was it was stressful. It was stressful. It's a very difficult course to pass. There's there's a lot to it 'cause you're constantly you're up early, you're working throughout the nights, you you know, you've got to got to take a lot on board and c and and and retain that information because there's no sort of like, ⁓ I need a bit of help No. And and what I would say from my perspective when it comes to military training is it does say something about you doing that. Because because it's a lot of soldiering in that course. Yeah. And you've got to be pretty proficient. Yeah. And not and not and I don't mean just walking around and being sneaky beaky. I mean all the tests and you know, like ⁓ identifying armour. Yeah. Or just just there's a lot of military knowledge that comes in with it and even even learning about mortars and like Yeah, your tactical mind has to be there. ⁓ i in a good place before you even attempt a course because you just you wouldn't have a clue. There's just too much to learn otherwise. And I think a bit of experience helped me as well where I could sort of apply what had already happened on my first tour to the the things that I was learning. ⁓ I think that really, really kinda helped. Which as well we were on orders as well, so not too long after that course was when we were going to be deploying. So I think it was all very much a case of we've got to learn this. Otherwise, you know, things are going to go wrong. Yeah, and you probably didn't want to be in a rifle. Well, yeah, that was it. Escaping that. If you've done one tour in a rifle troop. Yeah, this is it. I didn't I wanted to elevate myself, you know, I wanted to sort of keep pushing. It's something that I've always wanted to do, that I've always wanted to better myself and Good. I'm I'm easily bored, I think. Well, I mean that's yeah, I mean you've written a whole book about it and it but the the progression from that. It just shows. Cause ⁓ the other thing with being a sniper is you you're not left alone. I don't mean left alone, but you've got a bit more not freedom to do what you want. Yeah, that was it. A bit more say. Yeah, definitely. A bit more responsibility. Yeah. With that is pressure, but it also means you can do a bit more. Yeah, that's yeah, exactly that. Yeah. It was it was good, you know, we weren't sort of ironing kit and polishing boots and parading around and doing all that sort of stuff anymore. ⁓ we weren't doing the kind of mundane things that we'd already like map reading lessons for instance, we'd nailed it, we'd mastered it. So it was better that our time was spent on ranges, you know, in that sort of pre-deployment buildup where, you know, we could I ca I say this a lot, we'd glued ten pence pieces to targets at a thousand. Banging them through yeah every time they bang, bang, bang. So we were proficient in our in our shoes. yes. That or a UGL or GMG. I did a lot of I did a lot on the GMGS. Yeah, and I was ⁓ I was on top cover on the GMG. It was ⁓ I didn't get yeah, didn't get too familiar with it though, which is it was always a case of familiar with it, yeah. Ours was in P B defence. ⁓ really? Yeah. ⁓ right. Which was yeah. Taking walls down to get to people. Yeah. Tree lines down, all sorts. Anyway. Big toys. We'll get to that. Yeah. ⁓ so you've done your sniper course? Yes. Awesome. Good effort. And you were only young, you weren't old. You were young, weren't Twenty twenty when I did it. That's that's that's cool. Then deployed straight to Afghan again. So what Herrick was your first one? ⁓ first one was Eight. Herri eight and then this one was eleven. Eleven. Yeah. Yeah. So the one I I was no, sorry, I was on Herrick twelve. So the one before me. ⁓ okay. ⁓ 2010. Yeah, not summer twelve. Yeah, that was yeah, and ours ended. Ours ended just as summer was coming, yeah. Yeah. That's the one. Yeah, there you go. I wonder if we ever crossed paths. Who knows? I got a message you know, actually ⁓ on my Instagram a couple of weeks ago of some guy that remembers me from the Air Red in Kandahar. We just sat down and had a chat and he's I recognized your face on a podcast. ⁓ no way. That's cool. Yeah, it weird stuff like that happens a lot. Especially now, like you're you're all over the place now. I am, yeah, sorry everyone. No, it's good. It's good. So you should be. Yeah. so yeah, so Herak Eleven. Yeah. Go out on Herak Eleven. And am I right in saying that's when everything changed, shall we say? Mmm. Yeah, so we For me it all well, for for us as a sniper platoon, I'd say there was only five of us in our battalion that made up our sniper platoon. But before we'd deployed, so I was the first battalion, Royal Welsh, the 2nd Battalion. ⁓ three of their lads were on the sniper course with us. And one of them had been killed in the August before we'd got there. And I think that was the moment really that it all got real. You know, it was the first time I'd knew known anyone that had been As impersonally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, he was a he was a good friend. And it c it kind of rocked us all a little bit. We you know, I sort of go into his funeral and seeing loads of T V cameras there and hundreds of people in the streets kind of ⁓ like separating and letting us move through and it was just this crazy moment of wow, that could very well be our future that so it made everything really serious. So we got there with this mindset of right ready to to do the business, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure make yourself as safe as possible. Yeah with offence. Yeah, well that was it, yeah. Yeah, that was it, definitely. Yeah. We were we were absolutely ready to sort of take the fight to the Taliban and and we wanted to as well, which was something that, you know, you work so hard to do a job. Yeah. So you've lost your mate before you've deployed. Which obviously puts you in a certain mindset, right? Yeah. So then what was it like on the ground and whereabouts were you in Africa? On the ground, ⁓ so my first job, I was part of ⁓ something called the Mobile Reconnaissance Force. So there was I think it was eighteen vehicles that we had, all jackals. On the top of ⁓ was either GMG, so grenade machine guns or fifty car machine guns. Then all the snipers loads of GPMGs, we like we were well outfitted. ⁓ yeah, it was it was cool. ⁓ so my job was basically go out in the desert, disappear, strike positions, recce positions, and then go back and disappear. Yeah, it was a good job, yeah. And it was in the cooler months as well, which is, you know, quite good. Yeah. So like obviously being in the middle of the desert. But you know what got me? How cold it cold it is at night, yeah. Whoa, I wasn't expecting that. Like I'll on top cover and and sort of like in my sleeping bag. freezing what the hell was going on here. But yeah, it was it it was interesting. We were all over the place doing a lot of work with s Estonians and and obviously the Afghan police and Afghan armies. ⁓ so it was good. It was a good introduction. It was a bit of ⁓ it wasn't a crazy start. It wasn't kinetic as hell straight away. It was it it warmed up nicely but then when it warmed up that was it then. Yeah, it was it was a hell of a tour to be fair. Yeah. So how long were you doing the mobile reconnaissance for? Before you then got tasked somewhere else? I think it's about four weeks we were doing that for Okay, so yeah. So that was a nice yeah, that's a Yeah, it was a chance. I know what you mean, yeah, 'cause I've I've been on quite a few MOGs and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. So we it was by the time we'd done that, we come back, all the rifle companies have been off and done various bits and bobs. and then there was a sort of set plan that we had really all leading up yeah, all leading up to this big operation, Operation Mosterak. Yeah. Which is the the huge one. I think it was like fifteen down. Yeah, do you wanna explain a bit about that? Yeah. Mosterac was well, it was the biggest air assault that Britain have been a part of since the Second World War. So it was 82 helicopters, the British ones and American ones, all kind if it could fly, we were getting on it and and they were just doing wave after wave, dropping us right into the sort of Taliban helicopter. Kind of like strike ops. Yeah. But on a larger scale. Huge scale. It was like I I I remember being in this black hawk and just looking at this line of choppers, just ⁓ it there should have been a theme cheese. Yeah, exactly like that. It was like that. But obviously in the book there's a bit I'll talk about where I nearly fell out of that chopper. Yeah, it does happen. ⁓ scary. That was really scary. Obviously the the doors were open for a for a quick get out. So that area was Taliban stronghold, right? Yeah. So the plan was to dominate the ground so that you could so that then you could influence the area, I'm guessing. Yeah, pretty much, yes. That was that that was that was the end of the tour really, five four, five months in. ⁓ so at this point we'd done loads of strike ops. ⁓ getting intel from here, there and everywhere, finding out right there's a bunch of teleban there, let's go. ⁓ which was quite tasty quite a lot at the time. But this one was it all kind of built up to this one, yeah. This so the idea was that we'd go there, we knew there were training in the area, we knew there was I D factories, it w it there was huge caches of weapons, drugs and IDs found. It was it was yeah. Good with the Royal Welsh at the spearhead. That's nice to see. Yeah, yeah. I like that. It was good. There was a lot of pride in us for that. There was a lot. Yeah, it was ⁓ it was exciting with me right in the front of it. To today isn't I know we discussed this before, but yeah. We ain't gonna go crazy into shooting people, no stuff like that. Although you can do it you can give a little idea just so people understand. Yeah, you know, there's plenty of what happened. why what happened afterwards happened and then we're gonna go more into PTSD dealing with stuff because I think that's really important. Yeah, that's more important than have spoken load and spinning bits. Yeah, this is it. You know, if anyone wants to hear ⁓ just get the book. Get books the book's fantastic, really descriptive and you do a really good job. And I listened to the audio book and and you already know this, but you you you you're good at narrating. I was scared. Yeah, I'm sure you were. It was out of comfort zone, didn't they? Yeah, massively and It w it was ri I'd never read a full book in my life. So it was really difficult the sort of build up to that. And I f and the emotion that was there as I was doing it. 'Cause it took four days in the studio to record the audiobook. It affected me listening to it. Did it? Yeah, I had to check in with myself after. I'd done long runs with it and I've had to stop a few times and be like, fucking hell. Well, 'cause it's it's pretty ⁓ Sorry mate. No, no. No, that's a good thing for me, 'cause like in my Company, yeah. My first pillar is awareness. Yeah. So being aware. Yeah, very simple. Awareness, resilience, commitment. Yeah. Awareness. When I know that I'm having some kind of physiological response, I check in with myself, I work it out, and then I work out why it is, and it's pretty obvious why. I bet that ⁓ must have been really weird listening to the It was interesting because so much resonated with me. ⁓ And it and it is just quite it's great to listen to 'cause I I'm sitting here with you on the other side. Yeah. But but but you've been through some shit. Yeah, and it was a tough at least ten stories. Yeah. Yeah. It was real bad, man. It was ⁓ it was a journey. But yeah, you're not the first person to say that. I've I've had messages of people that have had to pull over on the motorway and stuff 'cause In floods of tears. Yeah. And kinda like that was my point. I wanted to get that bit across. I wanted to get the emotion across of just what it means. Yeah. And another thing is it I wanted people to understand as well, like what it means to send British troops somewhere to do that job. Yeah. Like the implications of what that means, you know, and it's something that ⁓ that we will get into, I'm sure. Yeah. So w one thing that's happened to me a lot is people say ⁓ damn what ⁓ yeah, I'm sure you don't want to talk about it. And I'm like, no, I'm happy to talk about it. Yeah. Because ⁓ how are people gonna understand what it was like unless we talk about it? That's it. And that doesn't mean because I couldn't talk about it years ago because ⁓ I had a physiological response to it. Yeah. You know, like a somatic response, I'd go red, flustered, couldn't talk, like you know, you know exactly what that feeling's like. But now it it's not It is my duty. Like today's the anniversary of my corporal Steve Curley's death sixteen years ago. Right. And that's today. And he had a wife and a kid then as well. And you know, like the it's always gonna be there. The anniversaries are one of the hardest things that I found. I wouldn't sometimes even know what it was until sort of the end of the day and I go, ⁓ that's what it is. I get that. Like this calendar in your brain that just knows Yeah, this period now is all the All you know, they're just consecutive we've That makes so much sense, mate, because I've just been through that. Exactly. Yeah, because on the lead up we took over. Yeah, you took over our tour, yeah. That's it. So just to take it back then to Afghan. Yeah. So obviously you're a sniper in Afghan. Yes. And you're going on strike ops and you're trying to take over a Taliban stronghold. Mm-hmm. So you're basically Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. You know, it it was I was busy. We were all busy to be a fair as snipers. ⁓ but I can I can only really talk for myself. But yeah, we there's all sorts of stories, like one of them where we're surrounded by two hundred Taliban and that was a hell of a day that involved me taking multiple lives after being on a roof for thirteen hours. It's you know, if people want to hear that story, get the audio book. Yeah, that's what I mean. And you know that's what I didn't want this to be. Yeah. Because because I don't think it's important. We've got too much of an important conversation to have at that point. That's it. So if you do want to listen to 10 stories ⁓ which you know are epic. ⁓ they're good. Then get the book right. It's it's it's a good listen. Even if I say so myself, it is I I enjoyed listening back to it. Yeah. But yeah, so that is what led multiple operations Multiple shots taken that led to the demise of my mental health, which happened, started on the front line in Afghanistan. So I was gonna ask you, what were the first signs then? First signs, it was this anger. Yeah, anger. This overwhelming feeling of anger, and then this feeling like it was all I wanted to do. All I wanted to do was squeeze that trigger. ⁓ and that is not me. That's not me. That was such a big I bet you can't even imagine it now, can you? No. Like you bet you don't even recognise that person. No, I don't recognise myself who I was then either. Honestly, I had mice in my house a few weeks ago and I couldn't kill them. I couldn't kill ⁓ I'm like, I'm no way, I am done with that. Not a chance. Yeah. It's so so foreign the feeling, which led something to say. So it's disassociation. That's it, yeah. Cognitive, what is dissonance, is it? Yeah. That's the one which led to my moral injury. Which is something which is Which is another part, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so first signs were anger. That was whilst you were still there. Yeah. So then you're obviously wanting to put yourself in situations where you're getting a confirm, right? Yeah, that was it, and it I'd be angry as hell if I didn't, you know, and I'd I was I found myself putting myself in positions, really risky positions, yeah, in order to do that. Like, you know, one of the stories in the book where I sort of run in in mid undies and my flip flops. Yeah, trying to get to a fire. Yeah. You know, that's not normal. My mum went apeshit when she irved about that. I just couldn't believe I'd done it. But to me and the other lad that did it with me, it was just how it was. See mine were the same but it was saving people. Really? Yeah. So I put myself in many, many really dodgy situations in order to save people. Yeah. Which is why I got the medal. But it come at a cost too, because You weren't able to save people a lot of the time. Yeah. Yeah, big big way. Because people always thought I had like survivor's guilt and I've never had survivors' guilt whatsoever. Right. I had the the lack of control of being able to do anything for them. ⁓ that makes so much sense. know when you're that guy who ends up in the shit. Mm-hmm. That was guy. Yeah. ⁓ It's addictive. It it's ⁓ I feel like it's simple. Yeah, yeah, it is. I th yeah. It makes you feel like you're doing job. Like I I wanted to s I wanted to be a sniper. Yeah. I wanted to push myself and I wanted to I didn't just wanna I didn't want to be a shit soldier, that's for sure, you know. I wanted to do my best and I had hopes and dreams for my career. So yeah, I very much got stuck in. And again on that second tour proved myself. I was Yeah, a hundred percent. I wasn't there to mess about. No, and you didn't? No, no, I didn't, no. And in the end it bit me in the ass. It's sort of the anger became a constant on tour and then I'd be waking up screaming in the middle of the night. Yeah. And sort of, you know, not understanding what the hell is going on and having this thing playing over and over in the back of my mind. Like a video that constantly played shot after shot, which was difficult and I didn't want to talk about it because I didn't want first of all, the stigma. The stigma, you know, if you sort of go back sixteen, seventeen years and so, you know, it was it was powerful. It wasn't talked about ment I'd never heard of PTSD before. I'd ne I'd never heard the term mental health. Yeah. I had, but ⁓ Marines but I've got you know, trim comes from the Royal Marines, doesn't it? And I think the Royal Marines are ⁓ ahead of the game. They are definitely leading ⁓ in terms of of regiments. Mm That doesn't mean it get it they get it all right, but then yeah, the Marines are also involved in a lot of especially in Afghan, we're just involved in a lot of stuff too. So Yeah, that's it, yeah. Disp I'd say not disproportionately, but w you know, like on everyone had lots of that's not even fair to say. A lot of every regiment has you know, you rem it happened everyone had a s a a slap in somewhere. Yeah, yeah. I think yeah. And w I think it's Funny to think about that from maybe like an outside perspective, is you don't people don't really think of troops as individuals, they see it as a group of people that go and do some stuff, and no one actually really sits to think about the individual experience of these guys that are coming back. Like I remember coming back from Afghan and Chester, for instance, was lined with people screaming, cheering as we marched through. Yeah, the Queen came. Giving out medals and stuff, and it was this huge whoa. Okay. I was mad as a hatter by then, and I'm sort of like in my own wide-eyed world, kind of just observing from inside of my own head what's going on. And now suddenly we've got lads in wheelchairs and you know, missing bits and things like that, and people not there anymore. And it was kind of this whoa, this that's when it really, really hit me that after I'd come home, yeah. It was. That was really difficult 'cause there was no more firefights. There was no more adrenaline dumps, there was no more I suppose normal life snags instead. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Exactly that. Getting speeding tickets and s you know and getting counsel tax. Yeah, that's it, yeah. The bills are back and all all of a sudden everything just turned into drink. But it's just overwhelming, isn't it? And then and then the the and he you just hit the nail on the head. What what do you do when shit's going wrong? Yeah. Hit that ball. That's it. It's just the easiest way to get I suppose get away with some of the things I was doing was to blame it on the drink. You know, getting spiked, getting in trouble, stuff like that. Just punching people and going, ⁓ sorry about that, mate, I was pissed. No why? I did it 'cause couldn't control myself. Yeah, the drinks are sticking plaster for the actual issue. Yeah. Which yeah. Yeah, that's it, yeah. Not a very good one either. No, no, agreed. okay, so you've come home. Then ⁓ how did it escalate from there? So from that point, ⁓ we'd got home, ⁓ like I just said, we we were marching around cities and things like that, and it was all very much heroes welcome home. And that I worked for a little bit, kept my mind occupied, but once that died out and it was back to work, then it was back to normal, it was back to prepping for the following year's tour and things like that, it just the depression really, really hit me hard. And I c I j I couldn't I couldn't understand what was happening in my head. I couldn't understand why I was tired all the time and I I I was struggling to speak. ⁓ like like I had slurred speech or rrr because I just didn't have the I didn't have any energy. I had nothing in my head and then I was getting extremely stressed over the simplest of things. Yeah, like I just couldn't handle anything. We were you know, I I was still kept my mouth shut at this point. So I'd come back from Afghan, although I'd seen a psychiatric nurse out there and there'd been this whole hoo-haw about me bring you know, coming back from the front line and eventually blagging my way to be able to get back out on the last one. Yeah, that's it, yeah. Of course I'm fine. Yeah, you were right. I was tired. Let's go. Well, like you said, the stigma it's not even just the stigma, it's the it's what you think it might do to your career. That was it. That w that was the big one for me. That was the really scary one. I've you know, I've never been one that cared too much about what other people think about me. I do a bit, but not no not in not in a way it's affecting me. But if it's gonna affect this career that I've wanted since I was a child, then I'm gonna stay quiet. So that's what I did. Continue to deploy on exercises, all that sort of stuff, and I was just this ghost. Like there there was nothing in me. It I had no it was like I couldn't think properly because I was constantly battling with the reality of the present moment and this video that was going on and on in my head that was getting louder. So just to be clear, yeah, were was would you say the video that was going round in your head was basically flashbacks? Or was it ⁓ like an internal monologue? Yeah, it was like was going over. Going over and over and over and come out randomly. Yeah, completely well it it was almost constant. So I'd sort of be able to hold a conversation and I'd be looking you in the eye and having this conversation and then suddenly this thing had come and then you'd get a thousand yards there and I'd h do my best to be polite. Yeah yeah, exactly that. Yeah, and I and I've I've gone, you know. And then a lot of the times if that would happen and say it was a hot day for instance and it's a bit dusty. Yeah. Dusty. Yeah, boom off I'd go. Used to be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, ⁓ Jesus. It's a tricky one, innit? Dust. Really tricky one. I struggled when me and my wife bought our house, doing it up. Doing it up and it was warm and it was yeah, and it was dusty. And all of a sudden this dust's in my nostrils and I can't get it out number. And I'd be in the sick going crazy, trying to fish out all this stuff that wasn't even in my nose, but I could smell that Afghan dust. That sort of mouldy, dusty smell. Yeah, the Afghan dust is one of the I think one of the biggest triggers and what I've heard people talk about the most. Yeah. Out of Yeah, it's common in it. It's just that smell. Yeah. Strange smell. Yeah, it is. And it's like that weird fi like it's such fine. Yeah. It got in everything. So you were constantly in it like some of my gear from then is in my container which is down south. There's stuff that's still got dust on it. Like it's that like Yeah, it's it's there. Yeah, it's horrible, innit? It just gets in every crevice. Yeah. And then you sort of just can't I would yeah, it'd throw me, it'd massively throw me the triggers. So dust was a trigger, what other triggers? Noises. Noises were massive. So bangs and Yeah, bang like the things you'd think. So like bangs and balloon pop in, that sort of thing. But other times it would be I'd find my brain doing this thing where I'd hear something and it wouldn't wouldn't sound like a gunshot or an explosion, but then my brain would convert it into this, ⁓ that almost sounded like a gunshot. And then off I go. Yeah. That was it, that's that would be all it'd take. I'd be off on this tangent and then before you know it, I'm on the floor in a pile of snot and tears, not knowing what the hell's going on. And the the physical effects as well. This so my flashbacks would always start with this burning sensation on the back of my neck. Okay. ⁓ and then that's your Semantic response. Yeah, my neck would burn, and then my eyes would start darkening around the edges, and I'd kind of have a few seconds at first of it would be what the hell is going on, and then I'm gone. And then after a while, it'd be a few seconds of panic of going, ⁓ no, I'm gonna, I'm about to go into a flat boom, and I'm gone. Try and maybe tell someone around me what's going on. And then after a while, I kind of got used to having them in a way. My responses were more. Say learn rather than sort of react to Yeah, 'cause you're you're just responding to what your experience and I think. Yeah, the only thing I could do would be like do what I've been told by your therapist or, you know, what have you. And it so there'd be them one ⁓ what ⁓ this wanted throw me all the time. So in my parents' house on the upstairs toilet was one of those locks to the bathroom that you lift up and put across. You know what I mean? Like an old gate. I know exactly what you mean. That was the bolt action of eye weapon. I'd lift it up, I'd go and boom, I'm I'm gone. And then I'm in a world of pain, lock locked in the bathroom. It was I was a tree surgeon after, and ⁓ the first guy I worked for, Dave, absolute legend, used to we had a stump grinder. Right. And he used to backfire it when he turned it off. And the first time he did it, I hit the deck. And he found it funny. ⁓ no. And he and he all we always talk about it 'cause he he didn't mean it like anyway at all. But he didn't quite realise ⁓ what I had actually been through. Yeah. You know, 'cause why would you? 'Cause we don't to be honest, we don't really No, there's no point. And anyway, yeah, I was just like and all the lads at work are just like, What's going on here? And I'm like Yeah, I was validing cars, mate, a few years ago in this garage and right near the the tyre bay where they're fitting new tires and pff Once that bang went fitting the tires to the rims, ⁓ loads of times. And I I have to pull everyone to one side and sort of tell ⁓ all, look, this is what's happening when you're doing that. So if you're gonna do it, let me know. Give me a shout. If you know it's not so bad. Yeah, I can ex you know, that th that would be fine if I'm expecting it. ⁓ it wouldn't throw me as much. It'd still throw me, but but not as badly. But sometimes they'd just knock me to my knees. That's probably not the best place for you to work. ⁓ god no, it's horrendous. Worst, worst work environment ever. Yeah. So from there then, so things just got worse basically. So then how did you was this b you weren't diagnosed with? No, so at this point I'm just going through this ⁓ and kind of tr still trying to keep it as quiet as possible and and not let people know. ⁓ and then it was getting to a point where the lads I was sharing rooms with in camp were noticing stuff. I was I was gripping people by the throat like in millisecond outburst. Mr. Flash. Yeah. And I'd be going, whoa. I'm sorry man. ⁓ and I and I I'd have no excuse, I wouldn't know what had happened. ⁓ and then all I started to think about was the coming upcoming tour the following year. And then that kind of addiction to squeezing the trigger came back. Yeah. Where it's because you're mentally preparing yourself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's when my my mind melted. That was it then. ⁓ So it all kind of come to a head. This was summer two thousand and ten we came home. So summer two thousand and eleven was I was at home at my parents' house, mum, dad, sister at a dinner table on a Sunday afternoon, and all of a sudden I just flew into this blackout rage. Had no idea what I'd done. Were you boozing? No, sober, so cold sober. ⁓ it was it I tell you, I'll tell you exactly what happened, actually. Me and my sister was squabbling, as you do, and she got a can of coke and poured it over my dinner. Bang, off I went. Next thing I know, I've got my dad by the neck on the floor. And I kinda went, Whoa, what the hell? Yeah, once you've woken up and out the black. Yeah, it I thought that was bullshit about that. That's a similar thing. Yeah, well you don't know what you've done. Mine's boozing but I remembered coming round and being like, What am I doing? Whoa shit. Yeah. So that moment for me was right as I say this. Not that I didn't mind doing it to strangers, but it wasn't the end of the my world. But I've just done it to my family. That I cannot I cannot deal with. So regardless of, you know, what it did to my career, ⁓ it was time for me to speak up. It's kinda pointless by then though, isn't it? 'Cause Yeah. This is it, why I left. Yeah. Mm. Just 'cause I knew who I'd become by the age of forty. Yeah. Yeah. I I knew I could Definitely be a very good soldier for a very long time. Yeah. But who I would have become out the back of it would have would have not been alright. That's it. In my picture, for some people that are fine with it or whatever, but yeah I definitely wouldn't have. You don't want to be that nasty bastard. Nah it's like what you said. Well it's just not me either. Yeah. And that's the point with you. It's not you. It is not me at all. Some guys are are wired like that, I definitely wasn't. Yeah. Yeah, some people do the job, don't get me wrong, and I was good at it. That's it, there's a difference, isn't there? There's difference. Is that my authentic self? 100% not. Yeah, nah, not at all. Like some people have no problem with taking lives and like fucking great stuff, you know. ⁓ that I stand by the best sold genuinely the best soldiers I've ever known are the ones that left. Yeah. They didn't stay. Yeah. I don't mean that because I know a lot of guys who fantastic soldiers are still in. Yeah, then and they're great, but but I think a lot of them would also agree that some of the best soldiers we knew were guys that went, Do you know what, this isn't me and they've left. And yeah, you know, there's there's arguments for and against. But a lot of good guys have left. It was so that that's kind of what it did to to me. It was it was like a slap in the face of if this continues, first of all, I'm gonna go jail. ⁓ now I was looking at some serious jail time for something that happened. And then So I've gone back to camp that evening. Following morning, went into the platoon office, spoke to the Sarge and he was like, Okay, ⁓ you know, I thought I'd have to told him just a little bit about what was going on. He said, Right, wait there, mate, run the med centre. There was a psychiatric nursing camp that day, luckily. Yeah, I couldn't ⁓ and then within a within an hour I was I was there talking to this guy about what was going on. But that that fucked me up because I went Why he's a cyclist? Why is there one here? Yeah. Like It's not all about you, Ted. Yeah. Well this is it. I was like who's who's talking to this guy that he's got a full day booked out of appointments? Like what what? And it and it just blew my mind 'cause I didn't know anyone that was struggling. There was there was one or two people that were kind of everyone knew they're a bit mad. But not to the point where you were psychic. No, I think I was. Looking back, do you know what? I think I think that was me walking the dog around with no No, it was it was from that point on scary. Yeah. But frustrating, really frustrating. Because was talking to this guy that had no experience of what I'd been through. He'd never been on the front line, he'd never been shot at. It like I was having to explain what certain terminology meant and it was just sort of this stop start thing where it was just incredibly frustrating and never getting to the end of a story and kind of for weeks just sitting there in front of this guy telling half stories and walking away going, What was the point in that? you know. It was it it was difficult. 'Cause that that started to then make me think, What's the point? Maybe like is this all nonsense? Which is my point of what I'm doing in work now ⁓ is is to be someone who actually has experience. That's it. And be trained. Yeah. In order to actually help people in a way where they're actually ca like not not for everything, like but at but at least they know I've been through stuff. Yeah, been out the other side, worked it out as best I can, as best as we all can. And actually have a positive spin on it and look to the future. Whereas I've ⁓ you know, I've got people that've come to me after having therapy for years who've just been like, yeah, it's like, you know, the therapist was great, but not relatable in any way at all. That is important. And that's not the therapist's fault. No. I don't I don't wish it on anyone. No, that was it. But there's a difference between sitting, say and you sitting in a room together and having a chat when you know. understand some things a little bit more than what someone else would definitely, definitely. I think so my my therapist that I ended up working with after all this had gone down. He works for a thing called NHS Veterans Wales. Yeah. ⁓ and he'd had a lot of experience with all sorts of people, you know, all the way up to up to S F guys and that really helped me that he'd heard all of this stuff. Yeah it wasn't gonna surprise me. He understands a bit more about it. Yeah, that was it. So and you only get that by years and years and years of doing it. You either get it by being in it. Yeah. Or you get it by you know, 'cause he would have he would have had to start he would have had to have started with a soldier one day. Yeah. And not had any. Yeah. That's You see what I mean? Yeah. and I just didn't trust that she would be able to handle what I was gonna talk about. That's fair. ⁓ yeah. And to be fair, it worked out the way I thought it was gonna work out as well. So I ended up going into a flashback in a session and smashing this room to pieces with her coming around her sort of in the corner of the room, like, ⁓ my god. And that was it. I was like, I I can't see you anymore. I I went to ⁓ the NHS to s not to start with, I went to combat stress first, lasted a few days and left. Then I went to the NHS and I got C B T with the NHS and the lady said it was too upsetting for her to do. Right. ⁓ which is fair fair enough. Which is basically what you're saying. So yeah and we w we went kind of went through the programme, but she was being completely honest. She's like, I can't she's cry she was crying the whole time. Yeah, so that's hard in it when you're talking to a third load of it. ⁓ my god, what the fuck and in and then and then in the end I just I I just really all I needed to really do was sort the flashbacks out. It's just why I went private, yeah, EMDR. And that sorted out that and then I could work on myself. Yeah. And sort out a few other things, childhood trauma, stuff like that. Yeah. Through different ways of therapy. That's interesting. And we'll get on to alternative ways, holistic ways of of later. But yeah, I just need to get the ball rolling. And that was the that was the thing. See, for me it was the opposite way round. So the C B T was what I needed first to chill my reaction out to stuff because I couldn't get round this anger. Couldn't no matter what I was doing, I was just so angry. And I needed to figure out why. And you know, and there was a lot of reasons. A a lot. I was angry at why we were there 'cause I didn't fully understand it. And then all of a sudden I've got this huge consequence now that I've been doing some stuff and taking some lives and I'm not even sure what the hell was going on. It's that realisation that you're basically fighting a load of guys that are the same as you, just the other way looking back. Mm-hmm. Exactly that. That that it's it's really hard to explain to people. To the point where I've not said this publicly yet. Sorry, to I was like, I'm writing another book. Good. I'm writing another book from the perspective of the opposite side. Nice. But yeah, you know, it ties into so you know, the enemy sniper in my book. It's his story. Because I want to I want to show people that it's not just like ⁓ they're the bad guy and it it's either you or them. No it's not. What would you do if somebody come to your country and like like every now and then I get shit on the internet and people are like how you know how's it feel to invade a foreign country and kill innocent people? And I'm like Yeah, terrible mate, to be honest. Yeah, like I done Yeah, I'm just honest as well. I don't disagree with what you're saying, so last week I had Andy Williams on and he we we were basically saying the same thing. Like you you like I had a lot of respect for them. It doesn't mean I liked them. Yeah. ⁓ but had a lot of respect for w how they did things. I also said I would have done exactly the same. Like my ID threat was massive where I was and we you know, we're getting blown up, get in firefights all the time. It was very kinetic and we got blown up a lot. Yeah. I would have done exactly the same thing. And i there has to be a level of respect for that to work out what they're gonna do. So that you can survive. Yeah, yeah, very much that. That was what I was trying to do. Yeah. What would I what how would I fuck fuck these British soldiers over? This is what I'd do. Yeah. I'd put an ID there where they're gonna take cover. Yeah, well, this is it, yeah, exactly. Yeah. That that in the end, the ID and the thing we were made of so difficult, didn't yeah. Yeah, ever innit. Like look like a Jackie, for instance, that's a fucking prime example of that, innit? But yeah, I think the idea that You know, we grew up for me, nine eleven was a big influence, for instance. I thought I already wanted to go in the military, but when that happened I kinda went, Whoa, there's some real bad guys that need to be sorted out and I'm in a position where, you know, I'm young, fit, healthy. I'll do that. Yeah, I think I had a needing to scrap. Yeah. Which is crazy. But yeah. There. Yeah. Which I would say is the same for the other side too. Yeah. A lot a lot of young lads one hour scrap and the yeah the time you join the army, the marines, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a reason to go into a fighting unit, isn't there? There was a you know, that's a way you're gonna do it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Unfortunately you find out the hard way works lots. I've explained it a few times that imagine you're in high school and there's someone getting bullied, would you bang the bully? For me, yeah, is the answer. So that was kind of my version of that. But then the sort of news, the way that my mind that was being influenced by British tabloids. Yeah, it's medium. The the fight against, you know, terrorism and all this sort of stuff. And you kinda go, yeah, and you take it what they say for gospel. Yeah. You don't know though, do you? No. That's lived experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Growing up. Yeah, that's it. Starting to think for yourself. It's interesting. It is interesting that at the age You know, I signed up and you signed up, our prefrontal cortex wasn't even developed. So Yeah. Yeah. It's it yeah, it's a tricky one. But saying that I don't regret a thing. I would do it again. ⁓ you know, it's it's not something I'll put someone else off doing 'cause it it's a great career. It just fracked my brain up for a bit. there's ⁓ there's a I don't know what your childhood was like to be fair. Good. But there's a there's a s yeah. There's a there's a strong link with a lot of guys I've spoken to with childhood trauma and then wanting to do it and then getting bad PTSD out the wall. Which which makes sense. Yeah, it does. There's just watching that. That was just gone blank. ⁓ you're back. Yeah. Anyway. Interesting. There's a guy called Chris Frall. Chris Frell, yeah, I who you mean. ⁓ currently Zap Everest. Yeah, currently and he he talks a lot about that, yeah. the sort of link between childhood trauma and Yeah, I mean it's well it's a well known thing inside like therapy and Yeah. It's just not everyone's having therapy, are they? Well no, this is it, yeah. They should. W The Americans seem to have this nailed down. Like they'll just go and see a therapist once a month and just talk shit. And I don't see why it's so different here. Like, I think it's healthy to go and talk to someone like about your problems. Well in America it's treated differently, right? So Like you go down the gym, a lot of people have therapists because they put an importance on their mental health. Yeah. The same as going down the gym. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of them are like almost in that cycle from an earlier age. Mm. Whereas for us it's like, ⁓ you doing fair and a lot it it's different now. It has changed a lot. Yeah. A lot is changed. A lot more people are in therapy. But There's the we're we're ten years behind. We're probably more than that. Breaking point and now we'll go therapy rather than doing it in the first place. But yeah. Is it again the stigma? The stigma attached to that and I was so part of this book that I wrote, I wanted to find out where that stigma came from. And what I read was that it comes from the First World War. Yep. ⁓ and troops with Shell shock or what not. Yeah, well yeah, they were shooting them, yeah. But saying that they had hysteria, which was known as a woman's illness. So that that is literally where this fucking stigma comes from. It's just snowballed into this thing that's now ingrained in us and it needs smashing. It is getting smashed though, I think. People like about it. People are listening as well. W which is great. Like I love getting a message off someone that is resonating what I've with what I've just said in a podcast. Yeah, I mean as soon as I read the book up or listened to the book, sorry, I messaged you straight away saying that's a book it's a good book, Teddy. Yeah. So so where does it go from here then? So from there that that's where So you had the bad thing with the family. Yeah. Then you've gone to the military, they've sent you to the psychiatric nurse. Mm-hmm. Then I've started having these weekly sessions then where nothing was getting done. They were learning they weren't expecting first of all the influx I don't think that they got from the Afghan conflict. There's more going on than the African. Yeah. ⁓ and there I that's it's it I don't know, it doesn't feel right to say, but it seems true that what they were learning from their pamphlets were well old. You know, they w it wasn't up to date information, it wasn't as good as it could have been. Yep. Training and and techniques weren't there. Like so I wasn't being told what a flashback was or a panic attack or any of these things. I was just in the dark about it all, not and it wasn't until like years later that I started to actually educate myself on what is a flashback, what's happening there, that I was able to then understand it and kind of go, right, I can combat that because I can do this or that and blah blah blah. So it's just it was this big frustration game ⁓ that just ended with me feeling like this is an unwinnable battle. This is something that's gonna kill me. And then I was sent on sick at home leave. I was on about fifteen, fourteen, fifteen pills a day, antipsychotics, sleeping pills, antidepressants, various types of antidepressants, and it was just this concoction for a nightmare. So which come with a lot of side effects, right? Yeah, the side effects. ⁓ my god, so I mean I can't even fit like f yeah, f that's a lot of pills. Yeah, it was. It it felt like I or I felt like they had no idea how to deal with this, so the answer was just give him more meds. Give him more meds, sedate him. It w I think it was on six hundred and maybe six hundred and fifty milligrams of surtraline at one point. Mm-hmm. That's huge amount. Yeah, I know. As well as metazopine. Yeah I know. Zopiclone. where it was like two fifty. Really? So app apparently nine hundred you can go up to, but there's risk of heart failure. Mm. Yeah. So I was quite scared. ⁓ that I'm right reaching this like maximum dosage and nothing it's not touching me. Wasn't doing a thing, wasn't fixing anything. I was as sad as I was at the start. Because it's not fixing anything, it's masking stuff. Yeah, that's ex exactly it. So I then felt trapped in this cocoon of hurt this But but no way of expressing it. I was just zombie driven. You're like on a baseline all the time. Yeah. I was I was completely on autopilot, except for my brain was still going a thousand miles an hour and I couldn't do anything about it. I was I was like being trapped in a coma. It was it was horrible. And that just every day got worse and worse and worse. The sadness was just ⁓ my god. Unbearable. Unbearable the sadness. I couldn't string a sentence together after a while. I'd sort of be talking and I'd ⁓ and then I'd stop and then bang, tears. For no no reason, no apparent reason, just just pure sadness. And then that led to me then thinking Which is when the suicidal thoughts came in. They were around for a while. It's interesting that the suicidal thoughts came when you were on the pills. Mm. Yeah. I only say that because I've changed I've not changed my mind. I lived in Brighton a long time. And pills and you know, the not agreeing with the medical establishment is quite a a pre prominent thing around there. And anyway, so I always thought I know you don't need pills, but then I've met so many people now and when they're suicidal mm, I'm like, actually a small dose for a period of time can be really beneficial. Yeah. I learned it could in the end. Yes, definitely. Small dose for a short period of time can get you over that half but then knowing that it's not a fix is important. Yes, and knowing that there is some work you're gonna have to do afterwards to then get off them. I sort of think is the important thing. That you know, if you're the dicky leg, that that crutch is gonna help you out for a period and then you've got to do the rehab. You know, that was that was kind of the way I'd that's a good way of looking at it. Yeah. That's it was yeah. It was kind of like I always say this to people 'cause I'm constantly on the phone to people now who are going through stuff. And I say like, see it as if you're on a course, you're going on a course and this course is really hard, but once you've finished it, you get the best qualification going, like you get life back. That's why I call it post traumatic growth. Yeah. So the only reason I do the things I do now, not just work wise events like mountains, running, all kinds of things, is because of the experiences I went through. Now that doesn't mean I wasn't able to do it before because I was able to do it before, but not to the level I do it now. Did you do it before? I was a runner before the military, a good runner. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ but then when I struggled with all with with everything. I just stopped completely for a long period of time and then the last three years or so I started running again and I've been doing mountains quite a while. Yeah. But you know, I went from starting running again to you know my last race was two hundred and ninety three miles. Yeah. Like quite quickly. I've told so many people about that lately. Like two hundred and ninety three but the and I've said this openly many times, the reason I got through it is because I got a massive Y. And it's linked to the lads who were in my troop who died. Mm. And you know, for me, having been through everything I've been through, I've got that extra power and yeah energy and a bit of their strengths with me in order to push me through. So when it gets stupid hard, which it does. Yeah, you've got to get recorded. I can't even imagine it's possible because of the experiences I've had. And that's why I try to explain to people, yes, this is horrific for you. Mm. But who you will become through this journey will be amazing out the other side. And that's the thing I'm trying to get across to people. Yeah, it is. If it's so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you're in that tunnel in a of course it is. ⁓ I couldn't you know and then that's why I did what I did in the end. But being able to sort of write that book That was kinda I drew on that. So my I drew on a lot of people that I know that took their own lives. And that I couldn't bear the thought of another one doing it. Really couldn't. Like and I'd get upset about the idea of it. You know, a mate of mine told me he had some issues with substances and stuff not too long ago and it fucking broke me that I was like, ⁓ my god, man, not another one. I can't I can't bear the idea of it because Is that 'cause you're associating problems with suicide? Yeah. Maybe bit too much. Yeah, yeah. It's yeah. In a way the conversations that had been had ⁓ and things that it'd been mentioned, you know, the ideologies of it and stuff like that. So it that sparked me to write this book because I thought I can't help people. I'm not a qualified therapist and I'm not gonna start acting like I am one and and you know, I'm always saying that to people, I'm not a therapist, like I've just I can only tell you my experiences. This is what very perspective. Yeah, it's great. I suggest you go and get into it. That's all I can do. You know, I I don't mind giving people tips on that, but even exercises and meditation, that kind of thing. But when it comes to real stuff, I think it's definitely taught in a clinical sense for a reason. Yeah, that's it. Which is what I'm learning at the moment. Yeah. That's it. That's so good. It's intended. It's going to help so many people. EMDR is great. Yeah, it is. but also there's there's so many different types of therapy and as you've probably learnt the really there isn't one answer for everything. Yeah it's a whole cycle of things that That's it. I I was saying this earlier on today to somebody that a lot of stars had to align for me to get better, but did that didn't happen by accident. Like, you know, it was I set those stars up. In a certain way that that I had to do that. Like no all right, not everyone can drop everything in code traveling the world on their own. You know, ⁓ people have got commitments, but for me that was a way of me getting out of my comfort zone. That was that was the most scary thing that I could really think of. So travelling in Australia, wasn't it? Yeah, Australia, local. So you went out there, you got some life experience. Yeah. That wasn't shaved a few sheep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ horrendous. Horrendous job. But yeah, that w that was it. For me, it was kind of my biggest worry was what if I have a massive, massive breakdown and I'm the other side of the world, what am I gonna do? But I suppose we've got to rewind a little bit there. So th that sadness I was talking about, that then led to me slitting my wrists in a car. ⁓ and spending the next three months in a psychiatric ward on the other side of the country with no contact from anyone. People didn't know where I was. Mm most of the blokes in my company didn't know where I was. And no people didn't have a clue. My parents knew where I was, but I'd said I don't want any contact, you know, I need to do this on my own. I can't have any any influence whatsoever. Going back to the 'cause I'm asked this a lot, i as long as you don't mind me asking you, was it to kill yourself or was it a cry for help? Yeah, no. So we asked it all the time. Yeah, yeah. You can see why cry for help's happen. I can. This was This was that I needed to end this. But immediately, as soon as soon as you'd done it. Yeah, a few seconds. It it I was without being too graphic, I was g I was having a bloody good go with a knife. And once that sort of blood had soaked my pants and soaked my hoodie, then I realised, whoa, ⁓ my god, I've done this. If I if I sit here. Gonna die. Yeah, what we doing here, dude. Yeah, and it was immediately I just kept saying, I'm so sorry, mate, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm s to myself and crying my eyes out while listening to Johnny Cash hurt on repeat. Bloody hell. Bloody hell, that was powerful. ⁓ and then I had to act. I had to I had to save my life, I had to get out of that car and go and ask for help. And then the next day I was in the nut house. That was it for me. Yeah. And it was very quick. And then I'm guessing off the back of that an MD. Yeah, so it wasn't until months later. Medically discharged. Yeah. So I did three months on the psychiatric ward and then got out eventually discharged. Well, I was discharged halfway through that, went home and then tried to take my life again. Ended up back. And then about a month four or two after being discharged from psychiatric service I was then medically discharged from the army. Yeah. Which fucking blew my mind. I fet it felt insulting, to be honest. I felt like how f fucking dare you take that away from me? Alright, granted, I was useless at that point. I was useless. But it ripped my identity away from me. Yeah, and identity's a big thing. I was lost then. I w that was that was me. I had no idea who I was. I never had any idea of a career that I wanted apart from being in the military. So I was lost. Massively, massively lost. And then a few months later Australia came up. Again, Asia and all these different places I went and that that's when I started to see different side of the world. The happy side of the world. Happy people, not. Which is similar to me. Yeah. Cause in the army, you or the military, your life revolves round war. Yeah. Jeremy Carr. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Becoming a ninja on FIFA. But then I started to see like hang on a minute. The world's actually really nice. A lot of good there's a lot of good people out there. Yeah, there is. That was that was one of the most heartwarming things for me. Being in like places like Thailand or Vietnam and being alone and needing help and complete strangers in foreign languages helping me in extreme ways and I just went, Wow, okay, this is this is doable, this I can I can get over this. And as time went on, as years went on of travelling and experiencing all these different things, I started to feel better, like and I started to feel like I was better, but I wasn't. But Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So guessing you're still boozing a lot? Every day. Yeah. Every day. Any other drugs? All of them. All of them, yeah. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. so then you're basically using that to master reality. Yeah. That was it. Yeah. It it it introduced me though to like sort of hippies and that. Has got something to be said. There's a there's a lifestyle there that people are having, and there is benefits from it. Absolutely. And I learnt from the people I was with. Elaborate on that then. So I suppose the meditation side of things. I completely agree, by the way. Yeah. I I I think there is that softer side to life, ⁓ that caring, compassionate side is is soint of beauty. Obviously, there's a lot of Sort of alternative things there. Now we're talking about sort of cannabis and magic mushrooms and DMT, ayahuasca, all these sort of things that now people initially in my world were like, ⁓ drugs, drugs are bad. Why are they? Because you've been taught that in school. Open your mind. That was that was the first thing. But then the yoga, the stretching, the breathing exercises, the meditation that all came from that side. All those types of people that are. a spiritual mentor for about six months who was living in Austria and would call me up most days and we'd have these conversations for hours on end about self-love and self-compassion which was foreign to me. What? What do you mean you don't fight your way through this? And that because that was my it was all I knew. It was hard, fast, aggressive. If you get anything done in the military, it's done that way. Being angry and aggressive kept me alive on those tours and I had a lot to hold, you know, anger and aggression up to. It it got me out of a lot of situations where I'd probably be dead without it, but it wasn't gonna fix PTSD. One of the soldiers who was like a mentor for me, ⁓ I was only him for seven years, but he'd he's still someone I talk to regularly. He was, you know, he was a Marine and he was an SB. And he's like he's a Buddhist basically. Right. He's he was constantly when I was coming up through ranks and things and all my Afghan Tory sent me stuff all the time and and a lot of it was geared towards breathing, meditating and I could never I wasn't although I I I do think like that, I was never fully on board with it. Yeah. But I always wondered, I'm like, why is he like like that and he's not like the others? Yeah. And now I'm like, ugh. You are so dumb. Yeah. It's it's hard to see, innit? Yeah you have to sort of all And it's so rough control. Like he's so calm, everything's about breathing, everything's Buddhist culture is that was probably the biggest one for me was was Thailand. Yeah. Seeing the way the people were. People who were skinned had absolutely nothing, always had a smile on their face, always h more than willing to help. And just their way of life being slower and not about material things and you know Just grateful. And that was the biggest lesson I got. Gratitude. Gratitude, yeah. Be grateful. Which then led into a lot of things down the line like gratitude journey. And what it does is it opens up your basically your neural pathways. Yeah. You start noticing positive things more. You start realizing that, ⁓ my life's not that bad. Yeah. You start realising that there's good things going on in the world all the time. It's normal like You know, like you watch the news and it's just like ⁓ Yeah. Whereas the reality is there's so much good stuff going on all the time all around us, it just doesn't make good press. Exactly, yeah. I think the quicker people start ignoring the news, the better. If you want to sort of get a better quality of your life. Yeah. I I avoid it if it comes on the radio or turn it off. I don't want to hear it. Some people might think that's ignorant or arrogant, but whatever. I'm happy. Yeah, well, that is what matters. Yeah. And obviously, if you can't help yourself, how are you gonna help anyone else? Yeah, this is it. The so from there, then, how do we get to where you are now, Ted? Which is the important thing. Yes, it is. So I came back from travelling. ⁓ landed back in the UK from Mexico, and at first things were okay for a few weeks, and then The shit hit the fan. I was a unhinged lunatic ball of angry violence and the drink. The drink had been fine while I was travelling because it was part of the travelling experience. Yeah. But then when I look back, we'd go to like CVS in America, which is like a pharmacy, and get a two gallon bottle of rum or whiskey, and do that in a day, and then go out. And you're kind of going, hang on, what? That's a lot of booze that. That is a lot of booze. Too much booze. Why was I doing that? I would stay up for like three, four days. And I wouldn't enjoy day two. Or three. Shocker. Or four. Yeah. But you want to keep the train going. Yeah, that's it, yeah. Don't want to stop it. Fuck no, can't afford to. But got back. And the flashbacks and the panic attacks, they absolutely beasted me. They come back tenfold after. couldn't couldn't handle it. The big, big instigator for my flashbacks when I came back was all the kickoff that was happening in Afghan again at the time, the extraction and all that sort of stuff. ⁓ okay. Yeah. But Radio One, so hopefully someone from Radio One is listening to this. That'd be nice, wouldn't it? Stop playing gunfire and explosions on the radio. Cause the amount of times that I would be driving, that would happen. And I'd almost crash my car, 'cause a fucking flashback had happened, or I'd turn into a crying mess that could hardly breathe, because all of a sudden the radio has gone to the news and gone b-ba-ba-ba-bang-ba-bang. And next in Afghanistan, I'm fucking hell, too late, mate. I'm already there now. Yeah. It happened all the time. All the time. That was one of the reasons I stopped listening to the news, because the triggers were they were just too much and there's no point for what more. Yeah, I mean you look at it now and there's just So either bombing or Yeah, that's it. There's nothing good coming from that news. Not from not from my brain. No way. Battle dodgy politicians. Yeah, that's it, yeah. Well this is it. As getting older, I wouldn't trust one of these fuckwits that are in charge of our country now to send me to war. No way. I wouldn't be behind them. Not I did at the time. I it's proven now, isn't it? Mm yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that started happening and then I kinda went, right, I need help, because I know where this is gonna go. This is gonna go down to me not wanting to be here anymore. Yeah. So I got in touch with the therapist again. ⁓ but and from NHS. From NHS Fitchens Wales, yeah. ⁓ unfortunately though, there was no appointments for twelve months. That was that was difficult to hear. 'Cause I'd sort of I'd reached the end of my rope and then rung them. So I've kind of gone, What the fuck? What am I gonna do now? And that is when this holistic side of things came into play. 'Cause I'd n I had no other options. I didn't know. I had no money to pay for a therapist. I I didn't understand what was going on in my brain at this point. I hadn't been taught any of this stuff. I'm still going off, you know, what the military psych teams were were giving me. Yeah. Decent box. Which wasn't enough. Yeah, yeah. Well not even that, mate. Box brain production quite good. Honestly, I sit there and I think, What did what what did I get out of You just basically had some low level talking therapy. Mm, yeah, really probably. I d I don't know. Yeah, that's what it was. It was talking it was a one-way conversation, yeah, of me just talk. Yeah, and then at the end of the session. See you next time. Nice one, yeah. ⁓ okay, bye. Yeah, you need some resources around it. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Some fucking information would have been hugely appreciated. But then I started working with this spiritualist mentor on the phone every day and introduced this idea of cannabis. Yep. How cannabis has been used for thousands of years and isn't this big bad thing that has been it's been made out to be. You know, it it isn't. A lot of people will hear that, probably, you know, especially if they're serving, still serving a good fucking smack it or you know, whatever. It's not true. Whatever. You'll learn one day. Yeah. But there there is there is method to it. I mean there's a reason, there's medical Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So I've I've now done a diploma in medical cannabis and CBT, ⁓ CBD, sorry, and ⁓ it was fascinating the the the impact that it can have on your life. And not not just THC, so the psychoactive bit, but the So what was it doing for you? Instantly, for the first time ever, I didn't have a nightmare that night. That was the first thing I noticed. I had a nightmare every single night. I woke up the following day and went, whoa, what the f What? I didn't have a nightmare. I slept through the entire night and woke up already feeling better because I've had a full night's sleep for the first time in years. And then I was right, okay. So the next thing was, how does this work against anger? So I waited until this anger built up inside of me like it did every single day, and then whoa. It's just gone. It's turned and it's gone from a ten to a one. So right, this can be used. Don't want to turn into someone that smokes it all day every day. I don't want to become useless. No, I get I want to be proactive. But this, there's something to this massively. Yeah, I think so. I think it made me realise that not everything or everything I've been told so far from psychiatrists and things like that, that wasn't the only way. It's not the bill and then the wheel. No, it's not. It's it's great and it's very useful. But it's a And that was my point earlier of that there's so many different avenues to go. Avenues. Yeah, definitely. It's not just Yeah. They're all important and they all do their own thing, but there there isn't just one avenue. Yeah. That says there is there isn't like cannabis worked a thousand times better than any pill I took. It instant I suppose now Xanax is a thing for Americans. I suppose that's the only way I could imagine it. Like I needed help instantly in them moments. Otherwise if I didn't get help in those very moments that would snowball out of control. I didn't have the knowledge to You needed something that were like did something immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm about to lose my That's the problem with therapy is you gotta sit there with it and it's and it's a long process. Yeah. Yeah. Just saying the word therapy is a problem in itself because there's so many different types and they all do different things and different reasons, so it's not that simple. But Yeah, but they but you're right, I needed something that'd help there. And it can get worse before it gets better. Yeah. Be in the other. Mm. Yeah. A lot worse minded. Definitely. ⁓ it was like opening a can of worms that I've sort of buried a lot of it. Yeah. And then went It's like throwing all the washing on the floor and then being like Yeah. So we did that. And then the next thing was was DMT. That was so alongside all the sort of breathing exercises, meditations, guided meditations, this sort of very softer side of life influence, yep, 12 months. DMT, so dimethylate tryptamine. Is for those that have never heard it before, it's the chemical compound that works in ayahuasca, in the Peruvian jungles. It is the only compound that is in every living thing on earth. It is released when you're born and when you die. Some so some scary s impactful stuff there. Wow. Is yeah, I don't really talk about it too much because I don't wanna promote drug use. No, but at the same time, it we only call it a drug. Otherw elsewhere it's called a medicine. It and it is a medicine. It was one of the most profound experiences of my life and it ch it did change my life. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent it changed my life. It changed my outlook on everything. It changed my outlook on what I'd done, most importantly. It made me realize why I'd done the things that I'd done and and how it had all happened. And it allowed me to forgive myself, which was really, really important. Yeah. I felt so much guilt and shame for what I'd done and not just taking lives but the manner in which I'd taken lives. So the idea that in that mindset I was in on that tour in Afghan, I wanted to inflict fear and pain and suffering because it was revenge. Which is difficult, but you know, if you've been there you can imagine it. You've been in that mindset. No, I know. You have it's not just we're not doing a job and playing a game. It becomes fucking personal when your mates are now dead or your mates are now missing bits. It is tough. And I struggled with how dark I went with that and how deep. Like there was bits in the book where I talk about, you know, shooting the guy in the throat on purpose. Like, fuck it, no. Every time I say it, it the image flashes in my head like just now, it's just flashed there. Well, it won't affect me because I've done the work, I've processed it, it it's gone, the emotions aren't attached to that. But the idea of wow, that's how fucking far I went with that. I was willing to do that and wanted to do that. So the DMT relieved me of that in a way. it made me feel this kind of connection to Yeah. That was it, yeah. It was I was just n it I was one with nature and I needed to be. And it started making me go out in nature a lot more and spend a lot more time just in forests, sitting, just not doing anything, you know, not doing anything you like you're doing, running crazy stuff. I'd just sit and I'd just be happy in the Sounds good. Yeah. It was lovely. I do a lot of that too. So it's not. It's good for you, isn't it? It is so good for you. And I had a similar thing. I did a big dose of mushrooms. Yeah. And that just allowed me to let go and and and allowed me to that like space to then move on to the next bit of my life. Yeah. That's it, yeah. It was it was worthwhile. Absolutely worthwhile. And then the next thing then is is the mushrooms. So I I was microdosing psilocybin so magic mushrooms, very small. point one of a gram every other day and that had a great effect as well to the point where a psychiatrist who was sort of overseeing my therapy, we had a little hush hush sort of sort of like a report thing going on really where it'd be like on your levels of your scores. Yeah, yeah. And and seeing how it would impact me. And now, you there's there's clinical trials and stuff doing it now, isn't there? And I know for a fact that's gonna help people. Hundred per cent. It's a powerful thing. There's a reason it's been used for thousands of years. But same again in America. Yeah. Depending on what state you're in. You can go and get psychedelic therapy already. Yeah. Look at that. So it's already so far. We're we're just way behind. Yeah, it's it's why that's why people are travelling a lot, you know. You you g and go to Portugal, everything's legal in Portugal. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ so a lot of people go to Portugal, you've already spoken about Mexico, same thing for me into Mexico. Mm-hmm. And then America is already dependent on the states. It was partly the reason I was reading all this stuff about what troops and veterans in America were getting with this stuff and the help they'd be available. Yeah. I've not done that. But I would almost get pissed off. Like, why? Why can we not do it when all these people are helping themselves over there? with this natural stuff and here you go jail for it and like people are you know people getting injected in the neck to turn off their emotions because of how bad their PTSD is. Like that was a genuine treatment. I'm like fucking hell that's that's not too far off. Shock therapy in my mind, that like it's i that is extreme. Turn all your emotions off. You'll never be happy again but you won't be sad again either. Yeah. So you've So you started basically experimenting with different compounds, and then and then where did you go from there? Because you did have some EMDR as well, didn't you? Yeah. So that was that twelve month period of me waiting to get into therapy. Now that time passed and then it was therapy time. So then it was a case of right two and a half years of weekly sessions on a Tuesday. Was that what it was? Two and a half years of weekly sessions. Yeah. That was a strong in-in. Yeah. It was ⁓ it it I was I was very lucky. I think that getting that on the NHS is sort of unheard of. Yeah, well what I got was was was I think four sets I think I got four sessions of a crime therapist. Yeah and that was it. That's cheers. Thanks very much. ⁓ lovely lovely lady may ⁓ Yeah, well it's just way over her head, like I shouldn't be doing one of this. Yeah. It's a lot, innit? You know, when you start talking about fucking the things that go on in your head as you're squeezing that trigger or being in those situations where there's blood and guts everywhere, ⁓ it's it's a lot. ⁓ but my therapist was was great. He listened compassionately. ⁓ at first it was slow, he didn't Interrupt me, he didn't try and make me make sense of my thoughts or feedings, he just let me talk with absolutely zero judgment. And for the first time I kind of went, Wow, I can I can say whatever I want here. I can be really, really honest. And I that is so important, I think, when you're in therapy. Would you say that it's important who your therapist is, then depending on who you are? Yeah, I think it is. I think that I'd I've seen a few a few of ⁓ I really didn't like I didn't like ⁓ and I wasn't gonna open up to ⁓ No matter what. It I it I wasn't gonna be able to do it. I wasn't gonna be able go deep enough. A lot of the times it might just be like the look on their face or little things. So what I wanna try and do is out of the back of this podcast is is for people to learn something. Because yeah, because I think it's really important. There's a lot of podcasts out there of people just chatting shit. Yeah. But the the point of trying to get across is is sometimes if you try therapy and the person doesn't work for you, it's probably not their fault or your it's no one's fault. No, it's just you just didn't click. Yeah. So it's not to give up. Like a dating thing. Yeah. It needs to be a bit of chemistry. Yeah. so don't just give up if if you go to a therapist and you're like, ⁓ that was terrible. Therapy's terrible. It's not that. It's normally and not always, but it's normally because you haven't found someone that you click with and work with. It's a really good really good point, especially for men, because they'll go once and if they have a bad experience, they never going again. Yeah. And it's normally because they haven't found the person that they click with. Yeah. It's i it is important to have a rapport. It it really is. I think being able to feel comfortable and relaxed enough to open up and be honest. 'Cause like, you know, there's no point doing it if you're not going to be completely honest. I don't think Like you can't lie to a therapist and then walk away and go, Well that didn't work. Well of course it didn't 'cause you know, they need to get in your brain to do the work and in order to do that you need to relax and let them do their job. But what I will say is Most if not well yeah, most of the stuff that had a huge impact on my life came out of my mouth but while sat in front of a therapist. Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. It was That is the point though. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose it is. It's what people don't realise. Yeah. The whole point of and this is maybe giving away stuff a little bit. It's called tra and then. It's called tran it's called transference, right? Yeah. So they want you to get to a point where you go, I don't need them. This is all from me. I'm the one doing the work. That is part of it. Yeah, yeah. But the how did that make you feel? ⁓ bloody hell. ⁓ well, but yeah, it's it's very much like, yeah, realising that, you know, nobody else can do this work for you. You can sit in front of a thousand pounds an hour therapist and they still can't do that work for you. But ultimately what they want is you to to finish Yeah. And have the tools. Yeah. Now that's the difference of some therapists 'cause some you didn't get any tools. But they want you to be equipped to be able to deal with it themselves and look back at them w you know, with the gob complex you thought that they had. Yeah. And go, actually, they were just a normal human being as well. Yeah. But they just asked the right questions. That's it. And I think sort of having the ability now to do that and like like you were talking about earlier, going through runs, listening to my book and having to Sort of check in with yourself. I think being able to do that, or why am I feeling irritated and agitated now or you know, that kind of thing is is really important. Yeah. Why am I triggered right now? Yeah, that's it, yeah. And it and it'll normally be something minuscule. Most of the time for me it'll be I d I don't get triggered too much now, to be honest. Like I I just don't like knob ads. what I was saying early on about the awareness, resilience and commitment. So two and a half years of therapy, you've committed to it, haven't you? Yeah. And it's and I would say that commitment was probably what now makes you Yeah. It g it gives me the Ted that sits in front of me, the guy that could write the book, the guy that could do everything because you committed to the process. Yeah. And it's it's not just I didn't realise at first that just turning up on a Tuesday, doing the stuff for an hour and then buggering off until next week That isn't gonna do it. That's not gonna fix it. You need to do the work through the week. So he would give me tasks like Thought Diaries, for instance. That was such a big one for me. So that helped me really learn what was getting on my tits and why and why I was so angry about stuff. You know, and a lot of the time it'd be this feeling of disrespect that not like one to know what I'd done or Show me any other and th I didn't want it. I but if someone looked at me in a funny way, that would have implications on my life for weeks, for weeks on end. That why did they look at me that? Yeah, whereas if you can just write a bit down about that and then go, ⁓ there's a correlation here or a pattern. Yeah. Then you then you're aware that's the difference. That's it. And it's just learning about yourself, isn't it? Yeah. Starting to write down Yeah. Really important. Yeah. And that and then do you know what that is another thing that the the psilocybin did for me is obviously now science is backing the fact that you can build new neuropathways through it. Yes. That helped. That helped. Being in therapy and microdosing at the same time, that did some shit. That that really did do some stuff. That's what it felt like for me. It put all the it put everything together. Yeah. I'd already done a lot of the work. Yeah. It just cemented It just all of a sudden it was like clear. Yeah. Like, ⁓ this is why this happened. ⁓ this is what relates from my childhood to why I did this. Yeah. And it just put everything together and made it clear as day. That's it. It's quite funny. I I look I often look back and just think, all of this could have been so different. Like so different if I'd have just spoken and like nipping it in the bud. That is always my advice now to people when they've you know, if anyone's starting to notice these things, talk about it now. Well that was so one of my questions is what was the what was the thing you'd say to people who are starting to suffer or thinking they might be suffering? Talk instantly. 'Cause like we've just said there, it'll come out their own mouth. Even if you're talking to your mate, you know, if your mate holds a silence for a a couple of seconds longer than normal, you're gonna say something and all of a sudden you're gonna have them aha moment where you go God, what? And you learn e each time you talk to someone whether they know what you're talking about. Like so for instance, you know, someone that's done our kind of job, has been in the military as a veteran or still serving, you're gonna be able to have those conversations with each other. Now I find this quite difficult with the serving people still. People that are still serving soldiers. are not as open to the idea. Yeah, some definitely are, but but yeah, majority no, but then they're in the system. Mm I found that unfortunately they are silenced still. what is really shocking to Well the military still has a job to do as well. Very much so. You've still got to create warfighters Yeah, my point of i of that though is this guy, for instance, so say f say me, say I I went and and I was broken or really, really struggling. If I'd have got the help I needed, I'd have been on that next door. And that guy who's now got two tours under his belt and the world of experience is gonna come back. And that is another weapon in the fight. Whereas I know there's serious senior blokes in various outfits in the army that have been to the med centre and told to shut up, otherwise you're not gonna deploy. And they kinda go, ⁓ right, well just shut up and and I'm I'm struggling with that one, knowing that that's happening. I I think a l a lot's changed since we were in. Yeah. I also think 'cause I think the same thing. I think when I when I left, I was a corporal, training recruits. Right. There's a load of guys who're super experienced. We all left in a similar time, all disgruntled, all got issues and things. Yeah. And that wealth of experience left the the Royal Marines in this case. Yeah. And all of a sudden you've got a massive void of of guys who all all done operational tours, cheeky operational tours as well, without any of that experience being put into new recruits or bringing anyone. Not like they used to be, and that's naturally gonna happen because there isn't as much theatre. But it's has a big knock on effect and I don't think that was understood enough. No, I don't I d I don't think so. It's I'm striving to come up with these different ideas of ways that I can sort of help people indirectly if you like. By one doing these talks, two like McColourin book that I mentioned, you know, that that seems to be helping a lot of people. ⁓ you want to explain a bit more about that, Ted? The colouring book, yeah. So it's it's first of all the idea came where me and my wife got some water paints and just started painting when we were camping one weekend and we're like n before I knew it, like two hours had passed and I've gone, Whoa, I've not sort of thought about a single thing here and I felt completely relaxed and rejuvenated. So then I kind of implemented that into the plan of right, let's make a colouring book. So it's 90 pages. Each page has got a drawing or that you know, colour in, paint, whatever, that will then relate to another page, which will be a lesson. So for instance, ⁓ stress bucket. A lot of people have heard about it, some people haven't. So if you haven't imagined all your life stresses, go into a bucket and then eventually it's gonna overflow. You need to find ways of emptying that bucket. So this is one of those ways. Sit there and paint or colour in one of these pictures for an hour. And your bucket won't as be useful as it was. It's simple but it makes sense. I always talk about having a pint glass and you're topping it up with trauma until it's overfilling and you want to take a bit out and similar similar things. Yeah. Exactly the same, yeah. Or like the the the clerk that lives in your brain, for instance, that trauma is meant to be filed away and all these things, but traumatic memories can't be 'cause they're too traumatic to think about. So they yeah, they're not they're not connected. Or in the right part of the brain. Yeah, that's it, yeah. So it's all the best bits really that I found most useful and not just most useful, but realistically I was able to do when I had zero motivation and getting out of bed was hard. This is go right back to basics. and hence this course that I've made a life past trauma. So this is the introduction into a number that I Do but it builds on the idea of breathing exercises and being able to centre yourself and ground yourself in the present moment, but also so more PTSD and C PTSD related is being able to settle your nervous system, yeah. Because that was that that was the hardest bit for me. It was exhausting. I just constantly felt like I was vibrating. My nervous system was absolutely knackered, and then that then leads on to sort of physical stuff. So I ended up getting chronic pain then all over the bloody place. For no like real injury. It was just all in there. It was it it's in my head. Yeah, you so really what you're talking about is a load of tools to kind of get you get you ready. Yeah, yeah. And and not just ready but also just just to fucking calm you down. Yeah, yeah. That was exactly that. For a lot of people is is 'cause the anger and the frustration that I used to feel was overwhelming and I'd be so Angry that I'd just cry because I couldn't do anything about it, or I'd go to the pub at eleven o'clock in the morning, start getting pissed, and then once I was pissed enough, then I'd start being a dick. Yeah. And that's not the way it go. Well, it's not a good it's a short term solution but not a long term. Yeah. Exactly. Because it it ends up rearing its head at some point anyway, doesn't it? Yeah. So you got your course, you got your colouring book. Yes. The book. The book. The other book. Janice Dan Sniper. Yeah, and then ⁓ and then one that you're gonna write in the future, but what yeah. What else does it look like for Ted in the future? I think another book as well, ⁓ that is gonna be more mental health oriented. Okay, brilliant. There's so much that I've you know, that I've learnt over these years that I feel I need to pass it on. In a in a in a way that isn't coming from a therapist or someone. It's almost You'd be a fantastic therapist, so Ted. Maybe maybe if I find the time I'll get into it. I'm just saying Yeah, I would be very good. You're I would like to do it. Cheers, man. I I would like to do it in in the end. What what I found originally, so again back to why I wrote the book in the first place, was I was trying to sort of help other people in my situation from my unit that was struggling and sort of we had this like WhatsApp group and and it just started biting me the arse. It I was suddenly in the centre of this world of loads of lads going through some stuff, yeah. And I was like, Whoa, I'm not qualified for this and that's how I knew I'd be alright doing it because I also had a group and I could maintain it and I could do it. But I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Because shit blows up quick and you end up with a lot of shit on the plate. Yeah. When you are not No I wasn't equipped for it. I wasn't equipped I was only t I was going through it with them. And and it was really hard. All making all your traumas all worse for each other. Yeah, yeah, that was that's that's the danger. Yeah, it was kinda I'd have a good day and then next minute you got a text off someone that wants to die and you're like, ⁓ fuck. Yeah, which happens which happens all the time. All the time, all the time. That's w that that is a big one for me, that that whole suicide thing. The idea of having been there myself, how easy it is to get to that point and almost how easy it is for it to happen. as well. No, I've had friends that I've talked to one day, the next day they're dead, they've ugh them off and you're like Whoa. So don't do that. Which is why little techniques and tools can actually bring you off the edge of doing something silly. It can be so simple. Yeah. You know, have you heard of five four three two one, five five things you can see, four things you can see. But but simple stuff like that, yeah. Someone goes, ⁓ my god, I'm feeling terrible, I'm feeling terrible, right? Do it and they'll go, ⁓ right. Yeah. Just brings you back to where you are. Yeah. Where you think we are all living in this actual moment. That's and when you have a flashback, it isn't you back there, it's you now. It's your response to that. Yeah, that is it. That w once I figured out what flashbacks were and and learnt that it's just my survival response to my nervous thing mur nervous system thinking that that shit's happening again right now. Once I could sort of go, No, it's not, and then do the five things you can see, four things you can hear, all of a sudden that flashback has stopped and you go. Ooh. Yeah. But then but then you're working it out and then you're in that awareness piece and things start moving. Yeah. Just getting out of that initial I want to kill myself. Yeah you need to there's there's two of either got some tools or have spoken to someone, otherwise it's gonna be really hard. And that's that's the problem. That was it. There and I figured out the way that I ended up getting to that point was it was like almost the only thing that I was now Of was that master off switch. I could turn it all off if I want. And for so long I was having that argument of why don't you just do it? Why don't you? And it would be you know, friends, family, the impact it's gonna have, that kind of thing. But then after a while when you're exhausted and you've got nothing left, then things don't seem to matter as much, you know. And ⁓ what a horrible, horrible position to be in. And I can't help but feel empathy towards people that are in that position now. When I see it it f breaks my heart a bit. But also it lights a fire under my arse where I'm like, I'm not gonna show up. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep turning up to all these podcasts day in, day out, and gonna I'm gonna get I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get this message across. Yeah. Yeah. Like it it's doable. And anyone that watches this and is in that extremely dark, sad place, it fucking gets better, mate. It does. And also understanding the sort of peaks and troughs bit of it, that that helps. The rolling poster, I call it. Yeah. So when I'd be having them terrible, terrible times and I'm right at the pit of it, knowing that at some point it's gonna go back up. This too shall pass. Yeah. It will, it will. And then after a while it evens out, doesn't it? And then before you know that way, yeah. Yeah. Unstoppable. I always ask one I try to always ask if I remember, but what's the one thing in your life that you've done that's made the biggest difference? To me. Yeah. So ⁓ so I'll give you an example. Mine was quitting drink. As soon as I quit drink my life completely transformed. Right, okay. so it could be whatever you want for my thing. It was the way that I felt about myself. Changing the way I felt about myself made me kind of realise, right, I'm not that individual that did that stuff. I'm me. Yeah, you're you the idea of a sort of inner child thing that was extremely powerful for me. The idea that, you know, anyone that doesn't know that pretend you've got a toddler version of you inside and it's been through your life with you. And the idea that I could go, right, you're okay now, mate, that changed it all for me. The the idea that I didn't hate myself because of what I'd done 'cause I did so long. Really, really, really, really hated myself. I f I w I was terrified for a long time that I was a serial killer. That scared the shit out of me. I was really So compassion for yourself. Yeah. That's that's the thing that changed my world I think. Good man. Yeah. Anything else you want to add? ⁓ banner book. Banner book. It is good. It is bloody good. It's worth it. It's all good. It it's cheers. ⁓ what's a mile look like for a scope when you're hitting something small? Bloody hell. What what does the thing look like? it is extremely small. I know I know the answer. It's j just for everyone else, 'cause people ask that all the time. When you do a mile shot. Yeah. Well what what does that target look like in the scope at a mile? Have I put this in my book? No, you haven't put it in your book. It's a question I'm asking. fucking hell. What does it look like? A human being? Yeah. ⁓ it looks like. A bit of a blob with a human shape. Silhouette. Yeah. And over there, especially Mirage. The sort of, you know, when it's hot and the ground's going like that. That's cast me back there, that. Yeah. Cast me back to that. Sorry. Vision. No, it's alright. It's interesting. It's interesting. Yeah. Purple there. ⁓ Ted, thank thank you very much, Jen. My absolute pleasure, man. Thank you for having me, mate. Yeah, mate. It's