Latest / Genuin Connections / Genuin Connections: Episode 5 -- Jennifer Kattula, GM and Global CMO, at Microsoft Ads

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Genuin Connections: Episode 5 -- Jennifer Kattula, GM and Global CMO, at Microsoft Ads · Genuin Connections

0:05
This is genuine connections featuring
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collaborative conversations about
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community, content, creativity,
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commerce, and the convergence of media
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and marketing.
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Welcome to the fifth episode of Genuine
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Connections, where we've been exploring
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the human side and the technology side
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of marketing with some of the most
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brilliant minds in our space. And
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today's guest is someone who truly lives
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at the intersection of precision and
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passion. engineering a more human future
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for marketing at one of the world's most
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iconic tech companies. Jennifer Cula is
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the GM and CMO of Microsoft advertising.
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It's a dual role that requires both
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strategic muscle and empathetic
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leadership. She's been a builder in
1:01
every sense of the word, shaping brands
1:03
and platforms and teams and the industry
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itself really with a rare combination of
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leftbrain engineering logic and
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rightbrain creative intuition. She's
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also my friend. Her journey from
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studying engineering at the University
1:18
of Michigan, go blue, to pushing the
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boundaries of web 3 and now leading
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global advertising at Microsoft. It's
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not just impressive, it's instructive.
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She's returned to Microsoft after a
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boomerang after several years with
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renewed perspective. She's driving
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momentum and reimagining what marketing
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means in a platform world. And in the
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conversation that we're about to jump
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into, we're going to ground ourselves in
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Jennifer's story, unpack the lessons
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she's learned navigating big tech, and
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hopefully explore how she applies the
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engineering principles that she's built
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her career on, as well as brand
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storytelling, team building, and
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community design. So, let's get into it
2:00
with the brilliant, grounded, and
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genuinely inspiring Jennifer Cula. Hi,
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Jennifer. Welcome to Genuine
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Connections. I am so I I I I'll say I'm
2:11
honored that you've made some time for
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us because yes, we've known each other
2:15
for many, many years, but you're a big
2:18
deal. So, I am uh most appreciative that
2:21
you took some time to talk with us and
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I'm excited to actually dig into some
2:25
things that maybe you and I have not
2:27
talked about. Does that sound Looking
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forward to it. I'm so happy to be here,
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too. All right. Well, I um I'm excited.
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I want to get in. I know your background
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but I want to bring you I want to bring
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our guest listeners together in a way
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because you've lived many lives across
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big tech marketing innovation web 3 all
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these things come together so when you
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now look back at your journey from where
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you were to where you are from
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engineering at Michigan go blue to now
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you know a big title at a big company
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are there things that have remained
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consistent and constant. Are there
3:07
things that have built over time as your
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narrative has progressed? Yeah, I think
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um it's such an interesting question
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because now I have like two plus decades
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to look back on to see what kind of
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trends there are and I think learning
3:26
for me has always been my constant
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driver. I am super motivated by learning
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new technology
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um learning how to do things. I really
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consider myself a practitioner and I was
3:41
an engineer. I was actually a chemical
3:42
engineer which I never did. I was very
3:46
good at coding. Um I probably should
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have been a computer science engineer
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but my first few jobs were coding and it
3:53
came really naturally to me. I think my
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brain kind of works in that logical way.
3:58
Um, but there's something very
4:00
empowering when you can cope because you
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can build things on your own. And you
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know, I did a brief stint at American
4:08
Express, kind of cut my teeth in
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marketing, but then I came to Microsoft
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the first time and learned all about
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digital marketing. I went to Meta. I was
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there for about 12 years and just saw
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this high growth and like very Silicon
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Valley
4:27
um vibe where you know everything you do
4:30
is kind of like 10xing the last thing
4:32
that you did and um and then I spent a
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couple years in web 3. We both did um
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and now I'm back now I'm back at
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Microsoft and I think for me learning
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has always been the motivator throughout
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it. I would say when I stop learning or
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my learning slows down, I will invent
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new things to do. I do this all the
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time. Like I I have ideas coming out of
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my ears. Well, or I will find a new job.
4:59
Well, but you're you're a builder,
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right? Like everywhere you've been, it's
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been either directly or maybe a
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contributor to something that is being
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built. I love that this is a way that
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you describe yourself, right? Um but
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it's also about understanding who your
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customer is, right? That's part of
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marketing. It's part of building this
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community. Where does where does that
5:17
mindset come from? Was that something
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that you have always been attuned to or
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is that are those skills or receptors
5:26
that you've had to open up as you've
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grown in your career? Yeah, I haven't
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really thought about it that way. Um,
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but I think one of my superpowers has
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always been taking things that are
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pretty complicated and simplifying them
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and connecting them to human values.
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Really kind of getting into like what
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motivates people. And so earlier in my
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career, I think, you know, I I
5:52
completely bought into and followed the
5:55
rules of marketing, like the four Ps,
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right? like you know you're and then the
6:00
all of the rules of advertising you know
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reach and frequency etc and what I've
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realized over you know probably the last
6:08
10 years or so maybe 12 is that there's
6:13
so much information out there I mean we
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are all consuming it all day long so
6:19
what is going to connect to that person
6:22
that's going to get them to stop in
6:23
their feed or um you know actually start
6:27
to engage. And and I think there's a
6:30
huge responsibility put on marketers to
6:32
not talk about yourself. And I I do
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think that one of the skills that I had
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to learn in in technology marketing is
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like what's in it for the customer. I
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think technology marketing is notorious
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for sharing the features and benefits of
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the products, why they're so great. And
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uh and most people people even
6:55
businessto business buyers they are
6:57
people too. Um, so I I think you know
7:02
Microsoft advertising is a challenger
7:04
brand and I think we also have to work a
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lot harder um
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to stand out and so really putting
7:12
myself in the customer's shoes and um
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empathy I think empathy is a marketing
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superpower
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um and that's what I kind of hold true
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like would I stop my scroll to look at
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whatever this
7:29
And you mentioned this and you're a
7:31
Microsoft boomerang, right? Um you were
7:33
there, you've done many other things and
7:35
now you've you've come back, but the
7:37
landscape is obviously very different
7:39
now than it was during that first. So
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what pulled you back? How has your
7:45
perspective evolved? Um what are you
7:48
doing differently or the same this time?
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Um so the interesting thing is is that
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Microsoft's a huge company. I am
7:56
actually in roughly the same division
7:58
that I was the last time. So I came back
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the company feels totally different from
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when I left in 2010. I think Satia has
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really um created just a wonderful
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culture of um within like I think
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there's 200,000 plus people that work at
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Microsoft now. Um and so the culture has
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has really transformed. I think now the
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interesting thing for me about coming
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back to Microsoft was a couple of
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things. One, I love advertising. I love
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communication. I love the technology.
8:32
Two, Microsoft is leading in artificial
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intelligence and I'm so into it right
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now. I think it's one of the most
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empowering tools that exists. I think
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it's going to change um how all of us
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work. And I feel like it allows me to go
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back to my builder roots where I can get
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my hands on keyboard and create things.
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Um, and part of that is my own
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personality and who I am. Like I like to
9:01
do that, but also the empowerment that
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you have for um marketers on my team,
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for our customers. It's it's really
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exciting and I feel I pinch myself every
9:12
day, honestly. I get to work on this. I
9:14
get to work on it. Exactly. And
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honestly, if I had like more time, 28
9:19
hours in the day, I would probably be
9:22
making marketing agents.
9:26
Well, what I Microsoft advertising isn't
9:29
is not just a product, right? It's a
9:31
platform. It powers
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ecosystems, but you're wearing I think
9:37
based on what you're saying two
9:39
different hats, right, as GM and CMO,
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and you tell me what that exactly means,
9:44
but you're balancing, I think, leading a
9:46
business, but also shaping a brand. And
9:49
sometimes those things go together, and
9:51
sometimes there's a tension or a dynamic
9:54
with some of that, right? How do you
9:56
balance that in your in in in your
9:59
daytoday, week to week, monthto month?
10:01
Yes, it's so interesting because I when
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I started um you know I came into the
10:08
team and I sort of shared my vision with
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the leadership in Microsoft advertising
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and with my team and one of my core
10:16
beliefs in marketing is that marketing
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should be a demonstrable growth driver
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to the business. Um so I hold that very
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true and in order to say that statement
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you have to measure you have to have the
10:28
systems in place and um goals in place
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that you're going to drive business
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growth and business growth is increases
10:36
in revenue. It is more customers. It is
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happier customers that stay on the
10:42
platform longer. So I think you know
10:45
creating that environment where you know
10:47
we are really pushing towards growth um
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in service of our customers like we have
10:53
to deliver really great products and
10:55
then on the other side of that is our
10:57
brand do you have a question? No no no
10:59
no I'm I'm a I'm you're you're a great
11:03
storyteller so I'm just enthralled. Um,
11:06
and then on the other side of that is
11:08
the brand. And I think in advertising,
11:11
like there's so many options out there.
11:13
Obviously, there's the the big behemoths
11:15
like Google and Meta. Um, Microsoft, we
11:19
had to really kind of take a look at
11:21
Microsoft advertising. We had to take a
11:23
look at what are the assets that we
11:25
have. And the thing that we're really
11:28
proud of and where our company strategy
11:30
is going is copilot and generative AI.
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It is literally built into every single
11:36
thing that we're doing. So when we think
11:39
about where Microsoft can play,
11:41
Microsoft advertising can play, we're
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building AI into literally everything.
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And we believe that the future is
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conversational. We believe it's
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personalized. We believe it's agentic.
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Um, so, so that's the that's like the
11:55
emotional brand piece of what are you
11:59
and how are you different and unique
12:01
from other competitors out there. Um,
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but you know like speaking those two
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languages is you have to you do have to
12:10
balance it. When I'm talking to the
12:11
finance team, I talk about numbers.
12:14
Yeah, it's right. you you have to know
12:18
your audience and you have to know what
12:19
the broader outcomes need to be, right,
12:22
in terms of what you're driving. So
12:24
yeah. Okay. I want to come back to AI in
12:26
a second because clearly that is where
12:29
all worlds are colliding. But you've got
12:33
that background that I think is uniquely
12:35
equipped in in blending leftrain and
12:38
rightrain thinking, right? As well as
12:40
anyone I've met in this industry. So
12:42
that engineering background has shaped
12:44
the way you lead marketing which is kind
12:47
of fascinating to me as a
12:49
non-engineer. But how do you apply
12:51
engineering principles just generally?
12:53
Like are you thinking iteration,
12:56
simplification systems to build real
12:59
campaigns? Like does that actually
13:01
translate?
13:03
Yeah, I think it probably I I would love
13:06
to ask my team this question actually.
13:09
Where does the engineering brain show
13:11
up? Um, it comes it comes up in
13:15
experimentation. So, you know, not like
13:18
do not set it and forget it. Like I love
13:20
that that saying because it rolls off
13:24
the tongue, but experimentation is
13:27
really important and and a culture of
13:29
always learning. I started to do MBUs
13:33
with my team uh probably a little over a
13:35
year ago and the whole point of the MBU
13:38
is to learn what insights are we getting
13:42
from the campaigns that we're running
13:44
all the way down to like what content in
13:46
a blog post is performing and we talk
13:49
about it. So I think that the idea of
13:52
insights and learning is is important
13:54
like what's resonating with our
13:56
customers. How are we experimenting? How
13:58
are we moving faster? And then there's
14:01
another sense of the engineer brain and
14:03
me which is just workflow and
14:05
streamlining workflows. So um I know you
14:08
wanted to go to engine uh AI in a second
14:11
but one you can lead us there. you can
14:13
lead us that we're doing. Um because
14:16
like obviously we have access to a ton
14:18
of AI tools, but how do you think like
14:21
every leader is saying how do I actually
14:24
apply this to my business? Right. Right.
14:27
You could have a just a an explosion of
14:31
AI usage that is disconnected. So we're
14:33
taking a little bit of a structured
14:35
approach where we're looking at our kind
14:37
of our workflows. Where do we feel that
14:40
and where do we think AI can streamline,
14:42
automate, have a big impact either for
14:44
productivity or quality? And we're
14:47
having a hackathon. And so we're getting
14:50
some folks in a room together to
14:52
actually build. And this is what I love
14:53
about AI is that it's empowering for a
14:56
marketer who may have used to h have to
14:58
ask a developer to help them do
15:00
something or an analyst to help them
15:02
analyze data. Now we have the tools at
15:05
our fingertips. And I think you know
15:07
there's two parts to this. One is
15:08
learning how to use it and then the
15:11
second is coming out with proof of
15:12
concepts that potentially we can turn
15:14
into products for our teams.
15:18
So I mean you've said that the best
15:20
communication right is human, it's
15:22
simple, it evokes emotion. Uh so in this
15:27
era of AI generated
15:29
everything how do we protect the human
15:34
in marketing in in business in society?
15:39
That's a big question I know. So let's
15:40
start with in marketing. Let's start
15:41
with marketing. Yeah. I've been thinking
15:43
about this a lot lately because my
15:45
LinkedIn feed is currently full of
15:47
plastic wrapped Barbie dolls. Um, and
15:51
the it's cool like to see what AI can
15:54
do, but then on the other hand, I think
15:57
like we're losing some
16:00
originality. So, I think where marketing
16:04
comes in
16:06
is AI can do many things like it can
16:09
help you concept, it can help you think,
16:11
it can allow you to get research out
16:14
there faster. You can create synthetic
16:17
focus groups so that you can understand
16:19
your customers and maybe you can message
16:20
test. But at the end of the day, I I
16:24
don't think AI is replacing originality.
16:28
I don't think it's replacing taste. Um I
16:31
don't think it's replacing uniqueness.
16:33
And so I think that is going to be the
16:36
most between what AI produces and what
16:40
like you know if you think that AI is
16:42
going to do all your creative it's all
16:44
going to start looking the same. So
16:48
there's a a big element there that I
16:50
think marketing teams need to think
16:51
about. The other thing that's really
16:54
been on my mind is IP infringement. And
16:57
the other thing I keep seeing in my feed
16:58
is the Studio Ghibli
17:01
reproductions. And and you know, I think
17:04
about these artists and the people who
17:08
have honed their craft for decades and
17:10
years or their lifetime
17:12
um and you can recreate that in like an
17:15
instant. So we I think we have a
17:18
responsibility to have a point of view
17:21
and take this art and the craft of
17:24
marketing very seriously. Um and and be
17:28
very responsible about it and you know I
17:30
think there's lots of points of view on
17:31
how to do that but do it with
17:33
intentionality.
17:38
Yeah. I mean and and again this comes
17:41
back to knowing what you're creating for
17:43
starting with your purpose and you can
17:47
adapt along the way which I do think AI
17:50
can help
17:51
accelerate but it is not going to the
17:55
creativity piece of it I think is
17:57
interesting but another piece when I
17:59
mean we are genuine right and genuine is
18:02
about more than just authenticity it's
18:04
community building which I think is one
18:06
of the hardest yet most valuable
18:08
challenge challenges in advertising. So,
18:11
what have you learned? I mean, you were
18:13
at Facebook, which was really one of the
18:15
first, if not the biggest and most
18:17
successful ever digital community
18:19
connecting platforms. Yes, it was a
18:21
media solution. Yes, it's a data play. I
18:24
understand that where Meta is in the
18:26
world, but cultivating trust and
18:29
connection in a platform ecosystem or
18:32
infrastructure depending on where it
18:34
lives is not easy. So wave the magic
18:38
wand and tell me how to do it.
18:41
I think you're doing a great job of it,
18:43
Matt, already because you're putting
18:45
yourself out there. Like I see you every
18:47
single day putting yourself out there on
18:49
LinkedIn and having a having a point of
18:52
view and having a story to share. Not to
18:54
flip the script at all. Um but I think
18:57
community building is honestly I think
19:00
web 3 taught me so much about community
19:03
building. Probably more than meta. like
19:05
that is really interesting because you
19:08
have your social graph and that data is
19:10
really powerful. Um I have probably 2500
19:13
friends on Facebook. Um I you know these
19:16
are friends and acquaintances and people
19:18
I've known my whole life. Uh but
19:21
community building to me is is so
19:25
authentic because there's you have skin
19:29
in the game and that's the web 3 version
19:31
of community building. like you're
19:33
contributing to the betterment of the
19:35
community. You're not just a bystander.
19:39
And I I've been putting a I don't have a
19:41
a a point of view on this yet, but like
19:44
how does that web 3 community building
19:46
translate into non-web 3 communities
19:49
where the incentive structures are
19:52
different? You know, like are can you
19:54
create different kinds of incentive
19:56
structures outside of web 3 where you're
19:58
not giving away tokens or NFTTS or
20:01
something like that? Um, but there's
20:03
something to be said there and it it's
20:05
it really is. It's authentic. It's
20:07
genuine. There's um there's a real
20:09
motivation people have to contribute.
20:14
So, okay. So, web 3 is not going away.
20:17
It's actually had a resurgence, right?
20:20
And you had this deep stint and deep
20:22
dive into blockchain as you were
20:24
exploring the edges of and really
20:26
getting into these as you've said the
20:27
fundamentals of community and connection
20:29
and also decentralization and value
20:33
exchange. Mhm. What else from that world
20:36
now as you move into and see where AI
20:40
can help us and and u the automation of
20:44
ads to deliver the right message on the
20:46
right platform to the right people?
20:48
That's been the holy grail. But are
20:50
there things that marketers should be
20:52
carrying forward or going back to with
20:56
respect to some of those maybe initial
20:58
learnings, lessons, mistakes that have
21:01
become
21:03
uh learning experiences?
21:06
Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing on
21:08
my mind like if you compare or if you
21:11
look at web 3 learnings to what's
21:13
happening with AI is just speed. So like
21:17
web free is very decentralized. You can
21:20
spin something up very quickly. You can
21:23
um there's not necessarily a playbook or
21:27
a rulebook. So there's a lot of um scams
21:30
out there. Now with AI, I don't think
21:33
it's the same like risks involved. But
21:36
the risks are you can build this
21:38
technology and if you don't understand
21:40
it, you can damage your brand. You can
21:45
damage your experience with customers.
21:47
You can there there's a lot of like
21:49
negative potential out there because of
21:53
the the scale of the technology and the
21:56
proliferation of it. So I I think those
21:58
are like really similar things and I saw
22:00
it at Meta too like you know it it it
22:03
was it was up and to the right growth
22:06
and um you know you didn't know what
22:10
impact having three and a half billion
22:11
people on the platform was going to have
22:14
like down the line. So like I think the
22:18
responsibility on business leaders and
22:20
builders is to think through like
22:23
negative
22:24
consequences up front which some are
22:27
doing and hopefully we do more of um and
22:30
I think just as leaders and connectors
22:33
in the space that is it's important that
22:35
we talk about it. It's important that we
22:37
think about it. It's important that we
22:38
do it as well. Um, but I think given the
22:43
your platform, the company that you work
22:45
at that is a massive leader and
22:49
connector in the space as well, right?
22:51
Like I'm glad to hear you talking about
22:53
that. But for so for Microsoft
22:55
advertising specifically then uh what
22:58
are you most excited about right now in
23:01
this in this ecosystem? any uh signals
23:04
that you think are being missed by the
23:06
broader industry or things that you want
23:07
to lean into more maybe that are just
23:10
we're just starting to scratch the
23:12
surface with? Yeah. Okay. So,
23:16
um I I I truly think that the
23:20
conversational interface is going to be
23:24
the future. For example, I have
23:27
rearranged the home screen on my phone
23:30
and my entry point to the internet is
23:32
co-pilot.
23:35
Now, think about that for a
23:37
minute. What happens
23:39
to websites? What happens to shopping?
23:44
What happens to search? I'm not saying
23:47
that I don't search. I'm not saying I
23:49
don't go to a website to like go deep on
23:52
anything. But what I'm saying is is like
23:55
there's this beautiful
23:58
simplification of my experience. And
24:02
even when I'm in say a a Microsoft 365
24:06
application, I can use Copilot to do
24:09
things that are on the ribbon. There's
24:11
like a hundred things you can do on the
24:13
ribbon. And now it's like the human
24:15
brain, right? We only use the human
24:17
brain to like 5% of its capacity. I feel
24:20
like that's true with my Microsoft suite
24:22
of tools. I don't even know what half
24:23
these buttons do. There's a lot of
24:25
features for sure. Yeah. Um but I I
24:28
think there's going to be sort of a
24:29
reordering of how we interface with
24:32
technology and then there's going to
24:34
have we'll have different modalities.
24:36
Obviously there's voice and you know
24:38
there's vision. One thing I do often is
24:41
I'll like take voice notes and plop them
24:43
into co-pilot and turn that into like
24:47
you know I don't know a memo or a blog
24:48
or whatever. That's a good tip. Okay.
24:50
Good. Good tip. But I I think the meta
24:53
point that I'm making is is that the
24:55
conversational interface
24:57
is I I think in a couple years like
25:00
that's how we're going to interface with
25:02
technology.
25:03
[Music]
25:05
That's I'm I'm writing this down just
25:08
because I want to remember that these
25:10
tips, these ideas, these these the
25:12
conversational interface. I'm curious
25:13
about your I'm curious about your
25:16
thoughts on that.
25:18
I you know this isn't about me. it's
25:21
about you, but we're a community here,
25:22
right? So, we can share. Um, I I
25:26
approach this from two directions as
25:28
well, but it's ultimately understanding
25:31
that there's this macro narrative that's
25:33
taking place, which is the ways in which
25:36
we interact are changing, who is going
25:39
to own it, if that's ownable, who is
25:42
going to make it easier, who's going to
25:44
make it better, like the quality of
25:46
this. And at the same time, so that's a
25:48
product, that's a marketing, that's a
25:50
messaging set of challenges. And there's
25:52
different stakeholders within that,
25:53
right? You and I are in in the
25:55
marketing, but also technology and
25:58
creative worlds that converge. Are we
26:00
talking to marketers? Are we talking to
26:02
product people? Are we talking to
26:03
revenue drivers? Yes. Yes. And yes, but
26:06
they also sometimes have different goals
26:08
and objectives within their
26:09
organizations. And then there's the end
26:11
consumer. Let's not forget about her or
26:13
him. So right now it's like where do we
26:17
start and I almost want to use AI to
26:20
tell me where to start but that could
26:22
also be wrong. So that's one side of it.
26:24
The other side as you talked about is
26:27
the creativity like the right brain of
26:29
this. I am excited for what can be
26:33
created and inspired and help and put
26:36
and inspire but I'm also nervous that
26:39
it's going to dull our senses. Mhm. So
26:43
what can help us rise above the noise in
26:46
this sea of clutter? What can help us um
26:50
discern real from fake, fact from
26:53
fiction? You know, all those things. So
26:56
yeah, I I this is why we are doing what
26:59
we're doing at genuine, which is
27:01
product, which is marketing. It's why
27:02
you're doing what you're doing, which is
27:04
about, you know, connecting and ensuring
27:06
that the right messages get to um, you
27:09
know, the right audiences efficiently
27:10
and successfully. But that's that's what
27:14
excites me. Uh, but I know, look, I
27:18
think this is something we have in
27:19
common. You and I are people who lead
27:20
with empathy and hopefully clarity. So
27:26
putting a plan in place is great, but
27:29
you also have to be able to adapt. So
27:31
2025 is 1 and a plus quarters old. So
27:36
I'll turn it back to you. Yeah. What
27:38
what should organizations be thinking
27:41
about? What is the modern marketing
27:44
structure look like? How does it
27:46
interface with product? Are they two
27:48
sides of the same coin? Are they
27:50
partners? Are they frenemies? How is
27:54
this how is this evolving?
27:57
the the modern marketing organization.
28:00
That's a big question.
28:03
So I think there's a bunch of pieces to
28:06
this. So one is going to be your
28:10
martekch and the data that you have your
28:13
first party data who you're reaching
28:16
where you're reaching them your brand's
28:18
a big part of it your
28:22
um point of view on how you're breaking
28:24
down your workflows with AI and I said I
28:28
said that before but you know AI has a
28:30
role to play in some of these things.
28:33
Um, and when it comes to product, I I
28:37
work with our engineering team all the
28:39
time because I look at sales, marketing,
28:44
and product as like three legs of the
28:47
stool. So when we're building our
28:50
martekch stack, we're thinking about how
28:52
do we have marketing messages in
28:56
product that help the customer do the
28:58
next best action, for example, or how do
29:01
we take the next best action from
29:03
product and bring it into our marketing
29:05
communications. And I think that we have
29:08
to as leaders, we have to think about
29:11
all those levers and how can I help the
29:13
product team be more successful and give
29:15
them insight? how can I be help sales be
29:18
more successful, give them insights. Um,
29:21
so I I think it's a very for me at least
29:24
it feels very collaborative
29:27
uh because it like we all help each
29:29
other. So let me just drill down one
29:33
degree deeper into that because your
29:35
your background is somewhat unique in
29:37
that engineering marketing um
29:40
convergence that we've talked about. Not
29:42
everyone has that. So it tactically or
29:47
strategically what advice or what are
29:49
things that people can do who are
29:51
marketers today who are trying to get
29:53
more technical right like reading up on
29:55
things is helpful but only to the point
29:58
of being able to potentially understand
30:00
it at the level that they're reading it
30:02
at. Right? So how can people become
30:05
better communicators when it comes to
30:08
this? Yes. Yes. It's a really good
30:10
question. I think the biggest thing is
30:14
to learn how to speak engineering
30:16
language.
30:18
So engineering I was afraid you'd say
30:20
that. Okay. All right.
30:21
Well, challenge like
30:25
um data driven, experimentation driven,
30:29
um like I always walk into the room with
30:32
the engineering team with data and like
30:38
fact and when my when I give
30:41
insights, they are organized in a
30:44
factual way like here's what we're
30:45
hearing. Yeah. The other thing that I
30:47
think is really powerful is um is making
30:51
sure that your engineering team has
30:52
access to your customers. So for
30:54
example, we have forums where we bring
30:57
customers together like executives and
31:00
we bring our engineers into that. We
31:02
bring our engineers into our events that
31:04
are sort of closed door so they can they
31:06
can get the vibe of like what other
31:10
marketers talk about because when I'm
31:12
the sometimes when I'm the translation
31:14
layer it's not as powerful as when
31:17
they're actually hearing a pain point or
31:19
an insight from a customer. So I think
31:23
like it's a little balance of you know
31:26
tug at their heartstrings but also show
31:28
them a bunch of data and um and I think
31:31
that's why I love working with
31:32
engineers. This is what I like I I love
31:34
with working with finance too because
31:36
it's like all data show me the money.
31:38
Yeah. And and the outcome is as
31:40
measurable as anything. You either
31:42
either worked or it didn't with Yeah.
31:45
But I mean as a marketer like sometimes
31:48
I think about it like oh you're just
31:50
another customer set that I have to
31:52
understand. You're another audience that
31:54
I have to understand what is driving and
31:56
motivating
31:57
you. The engineering team is usually
32:00
trying to drive product adoption. How
32:02
can I make them drive product adoption?
32:03
Finance is trying to drive revenue. So
32:06
um I think marketers can can get really
32:09
good at this actually. Yeah. And
32:11
ultimately they end up at the same
32:12
place, right? There's different outputs
32:14
that each of those stakeholders or
32:15
constituents can drive, but they're
32:17
driving what should be a
32:19
predefined set of outcomes. Mhm. That
32:23
everyone's that's the north star, right?
32:27
So, okay. So, as we come close to
32:30
wrapping up here, I would be remiss if I
32:33
didn't ask you the following two
32:35
questions.
32:36
one is a technology that you think is
32:40
maybe overhyped right now. I think
32:44
something that is
32:46
overhyped and I'm and I might be an
32:49
outlier is is voice in your
32:53
home. So, I'm talking about like an
32:55
Alexa or something like that because to
32:59
me, I just want people in my house that
33:02
are gonna interact and talk with me and
33:06
I don't want to have a technology
33:09
listening and keep stay up to date with
33:12
the privacy policies that go with it
33:14
because that's the other thing like I'm
33:16
I am most people I'm probably like most
33:18
people I'm not staying up to date with
33:20
those private policies. Um, and I I do
33:22
think my home is is private and I want
33:25
to stay private in my home. Or you
33:27
should at least be able to control it as
33:28
the default.
33:31
Well, right. I think it's the, you know,
33:34
potential changes like I might miss a
33:36
privacy policy and all of a sudden like,
33:40
you know, it's always on. So, last
33:43
question. How do you think about define
33:48
and personify connection in your life
33:50
and in your work today?
33:53
I I think it's
33:55
presence. I think it's
33:59
like it it's it's it's presence with no
34:03
distraction. So, I think about this a
34:05
lot with my kids and I dedicate like,
34:09
you know, the 45 minutes before school.
34:12
It's a little crazy, but as soon as
34:14
they're home from school and whatever
34:17
they're doing from 5 to 8, it is like
34:19
that is family time that is
34:22
non-negotiable with like no we're doing
34:25
something together, no devices. And I
34:28
notice myself when I am like, you know,
34:32
looking at my phone when I'm with other
34:35
people. So, if I'm going to commit to be
34:38
in a communication with someone, whether
34:40
it's a one-on-one or a meeting or
34:42
whatever, I want to be present because I
34:45
think that builds connection and that
34:48
way I can listen and not just not just
34:52
listen to reply and say what I want to
34:54
think, but really genuinely listen. Um,
34:57
and I'm always looking to learn as well.
35:00
But I I think that's that's how I would
35:02
define it is project. So genuinely
35:06
listening and learning is underpinning
35:09
your connection. Well, I can't think of
35:11
a better way to wrap that up as we're
35:13
talking about genuine connections.
35:14
Genuine. So, exactly, Jennifer. Thank
35:17
you for this. This was really
35:21
insightful, but also actionable. I mean,
35:24
I wrote I wrote things down. So, and
35:26
then I'll have to have my co-pilot
35:27
obviously tell me how to prioritize and
35:29
and actually make it work. But um no,
35:33
your your your background, your
35:35
experience, but also what you're
35:37
building and and driving to is is really
35:40
exciting, but also really important. So,
35:42
thank you for sharing this with us.
35:44
Thanks for having me. This is awesome.