Latest / I Used To Be Crap At Sales / First time sales leader? The BIG lessons nobody tells you | EP15 | Alan Clark

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First time sales leader? The BIG lessons nobody tells you | EP15 | Alan Clark · I Used To Be Crap At Sales

• 0:00
  Mark Ackers: Welcome
• 0:00
  to the
• 0:00
  podcast.
• 0:01
  Here's a
• 0:01
  sneak peek
• 0:02
  of what's
• 0:02
  coming up
• 0:03
  in today's
• 0:03
  episode.
• 0:04
  Did you
• 0:04
  used to be
• 0:04
  crap at
• 0:05
  sales? Oh,
• 0:05
  yes, how
• 0:06
  crap were
• 0:06
  you
• 0:07
  talking I
• 0:07
  think
• 0:07
  Unknown: I
• 0:07
  didn't
• 0:08
  realize
• 0:08
  it. Back
• 0:09
  then, I
• 0:09
  was in the
• 0:10
  sort of
• 0:11
  twos and
• 0:12
  threes. I
• 0:12
  went from
• 0:13
  this whole
• 0:13
  sort of,
• 0:14
  you know,
• 0:14
  was on a
• 0:15
  sort of
• 0:16
  PIP to be
• 0:16
  marched
• 0:17
  out the
• 0:17
  door to
• 0:18
  then, oh,
• 0:19
  wow, you
• 0:19
  did
• 0:20
  everything
• 0:20
  right? How
• 0:21
  clever of
• 0:21
  you funny,
• 0:22
  because it
• 0:22
  was a
• 0:23
  nearly
• 0:23
  complete
• 0:24
  disaster,
• 0:24
  and then
• 0:24
  it was one
• 0:25
  of the
• 0:25
  biggest
• 0:26
  deals that
• 0:26
  we
• 0:26
  actually,
• 0:27
  we
• 0:27
  actually
• 0:27
  landed.
• 0:27
  What was
• 0:28
  Mark Ackers: the
• 0:28
  deal
• 0:28
  worth?
• 0:29
  845,000
• 0:31
  Nice. What
• 0:31
  percent
• 0:32
  commission
• 0:32
  were you
• 0:32
  on? Did I
• 0:33
  write out
• 0:33
  that one?
• 0:33
  I think
• 0:34
  people
• 0:34
  that are
• 0:35
  thinking
• 0:35
  about
• 0:36
  making the
• 0:36
  move into
• 0:37
  management
• 0:37
  or as
• 0:38
  their
• 0:38
  first gig,
• 0:39
  they might
• 0:39
  struggle,
• 0:40
  not
• 0:40
  thrive.
• 0:41
  You've got
• 0:42
  interesting
• 0:43
  experience
• 0:43
  in areas.
• 0:44
  Unknown: Yeah,
• 0:44
  I used
• 0:44
  another
• 0:45
  example of
• 0:46
  Alex
• 0:46
  Ferguson.
• 0:47
  Ferguson
• 0:47
  was famous
• 0:48
  for making
• 0:49
  sure that
• 0:50
  he was
• 0:51
  taking the
• 0:52
  heat out
• 0:53
  of the
• 0:54
  situation.
• 0:55
  So if a
• 0:55
  game went
• 0:56
  badly and
• 0:58
  he was
• 0:58
  being
• 0:59
  interviewed,
• 0:59
  it's
• 0:59
  because he
• 1:00
  put people
• 1:01
  in the
• 1:01
  wrong
• 1:01
  places. He
• 1:02
  had the
• 1:03
  wrong
• 1:03
  strategy,
• 1:04
  and it's
• 1:04
  down to
• 1:04
  him. If I
• 1:05
  said to
• 1:05
  you, list
• 1:06
  a few of
• 1:07
  the traits
• 1:08
  of a top
• 1:09
  performing
• 1:09
  IC mindset
• 1:11
  wise, what
• 1:11
  would you
• 1:12
  say
• 1:12
  individual
• 1:13
  contributors
• 1:13
  should be
• 1:14
  very, very
• 1:15
  focused.
• 1:15
  Got to be
• 1:16
  diligent
• 1:16
  and
• 1:17
  methodical
• 1:17
  about what
• 1:18
  they what
• 1:18
  they're
• 1:18
  actually
• 1:19
  doing,
• 1:19
  keep sort
• 1:20
  of zooming
• 1:21
  out of the
• 1:21
  weeds they
• 1:22
  might be
• 1:23
  in in a
• 1:23
  particular
• 1:23
  deal or
• 1:24
  account or
• 1:24
  something
• 1:25
  going on,
• 1:25
  and keep
• 1:26
  taking a
• 1:27
  check of
• 1:27
  the bigger
• 1:28
  picture of
• 1:29
  what's
• 1:29
  going on.
• 1:29
  One of my
• 1:30
  disasters
• 1:31
  early on
• 1:31
  was
• 1:31
  creating a
• 1:32
  team of
• 1:32
  mini me's.
• 1:33
  We hire
• 1:33
  great
• 1:34
  people,
• 1:34
  and then
• 1:34
  we tell
• 1:35
  them what
• 1:35
  to do. And
• 1:35
  that's
• 1:36
  what I was
• 1:36
  doing.
• 1:36
  That's
• 1:37
  completely
• 1:37
  wrong,
• 1:37
  because
• 1:38
  there's
• 1:38
  many
• 1:38
  different
• 1:39
  ways of
• 1:39
  completing
• 1:40
  what
• 1:40
  you're
• 1:41
  trying to
• 1:41
  achieve,
• 1:42
  and people
• 1:42
  would do
• 1:42
  it in
• 1:43
  different
• 1:43
  ways. So
• 1:44
  your job,
• 1:45
  from the
• 1:45
  manager
• 1:45
  point of
• 1:46
  view, is
• 1:46
  trying to
• 1:47
  understand.
• 1:53
  Mark Ackers: Hello
• 1:53
  and
• 1:53
  welcome to
• 1:54
  another
• 1:54
  episode of
• 1:55
  The I used
• 1:55
  to be crap
• 1:56
  at sales
• 1:56
  podcast.
• 1:57
  I'm your
• 1:57
  host, Mark
• 1:58
  Akers, the
• 1:59
  co founder
• 1:59
  and Head
• 2:00
  of Sales
• 2:00
  here at my
• 2:00
  sales
• 2:01
  coach, we
• 2:02
  called the
• 2:02
  podcast
• 2:03
  that
• 2:03
  because
• 2:03
  it's true
• 2:04
  and all of
• 2:05
  our guests
• 2:05
  say the
• 2:06
  same.
• 2:07
  Today's
• 2:07
  episode,
• 2:08
  we're
• 2:08
  going to
• 2:08
  focus on
• 2:09
  what it's
• 2:10
  like being
• 2:10
  a first
• 2:11
  time sales
• 2:11
  leader. So
• 2:12
  if you're
• 2:13
  thinking
• 2:13
  of making
• 2:14
  the move,
• 2:15
  or you are
• 2:16
  in a first
• 2:16
  time sales
• 2:17
  leadership
• 2:17
  role, this
• 2:18
  episode is
• 2:19
  for you,
• 2:20
  and here's
• 2:21
  who I'm
• 2:21
  joined by
• 2:23
  in the
• 2:23
  orange
• 2:23
  chair.
• 2:23
  Today, we
• 2:24
  have a man
• 2:25
  with a
• 2:25
  rich
• 2:25
  background,
• 2:26
  20 plus
• 2:27
  years
• 2:27
  experience
• 2:28
  working
• 2:29
  with
• 2:29
  global
• 2:30
  tech
• 2:30
  businesses,
• 2:31
  primarily
• 2:32
  cloud
• 2:32
  software,
• 2:33
  SaaS,
• 2:33
  Microsoft
• 2:34
  for four
• 2:35
  years, VP
• 2:35
  of Sales
• 2:36
  for SAP,
• 2:37
  the global
• 2:38
  VP of
• 2:38
  Sales for
• 2:39
  sage,
• 2:39
  which had
• 2:40
  a trade
• 2:40
  sale exit
• 2:41
  at over 10
• 2:41
  times ARR
• 2:43
  and during
• 2:43
  his time,
• 2:44
  he's built
• 2:44
  teams of
• 2:45
  account
• 2:46
  managers,
• 2:46
  new
• 2:46
  business
• 2:47
  sales, pre
• 2:48
  sales
• 2:48
  consultants
• 2:49
  and lead
• 2:50
  generation.
• 2:51
  And on top
• 2:52
  of all of
• 2:52
  that, he's
• 2:53
  a my sales
• 2:54
  coach,
• 2:54
  coach, and
• 2:55
  this
• 2:55
  episode is
• 2:56
  gonna be
• 2:56
  full of
• 2:57
  wisdom. I
• 2:57
  can tell
• 2:58
  my guest
• 2:59
  today is
• 2:59
  Alan
• 3:00
  Clark.
• 3:00
  Alan,
• 3:01
  welcome to
• 3:01
  orange
• 3:01
  chairs and
• 3:02
  to
• 3:02
  Newcastle.
• 3:03
  How are
• 3:03
  you?
• 3:03
  Unknown: I'm
• 3:03
  really
• 3:04
  good.
• 3:04
  Thank you.
• 3:04
  And these
• 3:05
  are, these
• 3:05
  are
• 3:05
  fantastically
• 3:06
  comfortable,
• 3:07
  if not a
• 3:07
  Mark Ackers: little
• 3:07
  warm, is a
• 3:08
  bit
• 3:08
  warmer,
• 3:08
  but you'd
• 3:09
  have to
• 3:09
  wear a
• 3:09
  jumper, so
• 3:10
  you're
• 3:10
  okay. In
• 3:11
  terms of
• 3:12
  this
• 3:13
  episode,
• 3:13
  we always
• 3:14
  start with
• 3:14
  a yes, no
• 3:15
  question,
• 3:15
  sure, did
• 3:16
  you, or
• 3:16
  did you
• 3:17
  not used
• 3:17
  to be crap
• 3:18
  at sales?
• 3:18
  Oh, yes.
• 3:19
  Unknown: Oh.
• 3:20
  I mean,
• 3:20
  that could
• 3:21
  be borne
• 3:21
  out by a
• 3:22
  couple of
• 3:23
  pips.
• 3:23
  Those that
• 3:24
  don't know
• 3:24
  what a pip
• 3:25
  is, is a
• 3:26
  hopefully
• 3:26
  you won't
• 3:27
  ever
• 3:27
  experience
• 3:28
  one. So
• 3:28
  yeah, I've
• 3:29
  been in
• 3:29
  crap at
• 3:29
  sales. And
• 3:31
  Mark Ackers: how
• 3:31
  crap were
• 3:31
  we talking
• 3:32
  on a scale
• 3:32
  of one to
• 3:33
  1010,
• 3:33
  being
• 3:34
  elite, one
• 3:35
  being
• 3:35
  crap. How
• 3:36
  crap were
• 3:36
  we
• 3:36
  talking?
• 3:37
  Pretty
• 3:37
  crap. I
• 3:38
  was in the
• 3:38
  sort of
• 3:39
  twos and
• 3:40
  threes?
• 3:41
  Yeah, it
• 3:41
  was pretty
• 3:41
  low to
• 3:41
  start
• 3:42
  with.
• 3:42
  Often
• 3:43
  guests
• 3:43
  have just
• 3:44
  a funny
• 3:45
  story how,
• 3:47
  like, a
• 3:47
  big
• 3:47
  mistake
• 3:48
  they've
• 3:48
  made in
• 3:48
  their
• 3:48
  career.
• 3:49
  Yeah,
• 3:49
  share one
• 3:50
  with us. I
• 3:51
  Unknown: was
• 3:52
  alluding
• 3:53
  to the
• 3:53
  fact that
• 3:53
  I've seen
• 3:54
  a lot of
• 3:54
  people
• 3:55
  fail in
• 3:56
  that
• 3:56
  because
• 3:56
  they've
• 3:57
  gone about
• 3:57
  it without
• 3:58
  realizing
• 3:59
  why they
• 4:00
  really
• 4:00
  want it,
• 4:01
  and they
• 4:01
  feel like
• 4:01
  it's just
• 4:02
  a natural
• 4:03
  progression
• 4:03
  step, it's
• 4:04
  kind of a
• 4:05
  promotion.
• 4:06
  And I
• 4:06
  think too
• 4:06
  many
• 4:07
  people
• 4:08
  really go
• 4:09
  into it
• 4:09
  without
• 4:10
  understanding
• 4:11
  what's
• 4:12
  involved,
• 4:12
  and that
• 4:13
  it's that
• 4:13
  it's a
• 4:13
  completely
• 4:14
  different
• 4:14
  job. I
• 4:15
  really
• 4:16
  enjoy
• 4:16
  talking to
• 4:17
  aspiring
• 4:17
  managers,
• 4:18
  getting
• 4:18
  under the
• 4:19
  skin of
• 4:19
  why they
• 4:20
  really
• 4:20
  want to
• 4:20
  actually
• 4:21
  do it
• 4:21
  right? If
• 4:22
  you're
• 4:22
  going to
• 4:22
  do it for
• 4:23
  the money,
• 4:23
  or you're
• 4:24
  going to
• 4:24
  do it for
• 4:24
  the ego,
• 4:25
  you're
• 4:25
  doing it
• 4:26
  for the
• 4:26
  title,
• 4:27
  you're in
• 4:27
  all sorts
• 4:28
  of
• 4:29
  trouble.
• 4:29
  And so
• 4:29
  there's
• 4:30
  some
• 4:30
  interesting
• 4:31
  questions
• 4:32
  you need
• 4:32
  to ask
• 4:32
  yourself
• 4:33
  quietly,
• 4:34
  why you
• 4:35
  actually
• 4:35
  want to go
• 4:35
  and do
• 4:36
  that?
• 4:36
  Well, that
• 4:36
  was my
• 4:37
  Mark Ackers: first
• 4:37
  question
• 4:37
  for you,
• 4:38
  actually,
• 4:38
  when we
• 4:39
  think of
• 4:39
  aspiring
• 4:39
  sounds
• 4:40
  leaders,
• 4:41
  I've, you
• 4:41
  know, over
• 4:41
  the last
• 4:42
  15 years,
• 4:42
  spoke to
• 4:43
  many
• 4:43
  individual
• 4:44
  contributors,
• 4:44
  and they
• 4:45
  all talked
• 4:45
  about
• 4:46
  getting
• 4:46
  out of
• 4:47
  what they
• 4:47
  call,
• 4:47
  like, you
• 4:47
  know, the
• 4:48
  rat race,
• 4:48
  having a
• 4:49
  quota.
• 4:50
  They want
• 4:50
  to take
• 4:51
  that
• 4:51
  leadership
• 4:51
  step. And
• 4:53
  most
• 4:54
  people, I
• 4:54
  feel, want
• 4:55
  to be a
• 4:55
  sales
• 4:56
  leader.
• 4:56
  They say
• 4:56
  they do,
• 4:56
  right?
• 4:57
  They're
• 4:57
  individual
• 4:58
  companies
• 4:58
  right now.
• 4:58
  They want
• 4:59
  to be a
• 4:59
  sales
• 4:59
  leader.
• 5:00
  But should
• 5:00
  they be
• 5:01
  what
• 5:02
  questions
• 5:02
  should
• 5:03
  they ask
• 5:03
  themselves
• 5:04
  to help
• 5:04
  identify
• 5:05
  they
• 5:05
  should
• 5:05
  take that
• 5:06
  step.
• 5:06
  Unknown: It's
• 5:07
  the,
• 5:07
  probably
• 5:07
  the most
• 5:08
  important
• 5:08
  thing
• 5:09
  you'll
• 5:09
  you'll do.
• 5:12
  I'd
• 5:12
  suggest
• 5:13
  you
• 5:14
  surround
• 5:14
  yourself
• 5:15
  with a
• 5:15
  couple of
• 5:15
  people
• 5:16
  that can
• 5:17
  help you.
• 5:18
  Also be
• 5:18
  honest
• 5:19
  with
• 5:19
  yourself
• 5:19
  as well
• 5:21
  and ask,
• 5:22
  what is
• 5:23
  your true
• 5:23
  motivation
• 5:24
  behind it?
• 5:25
  I don't
• 5:26
  think
• 5:26
  there's
• 5:27
  anything
• 5:27
  wrong with
• 5:28
  wanting to
• 5:29
  do a sales
• 5:31
  job
• 5:31
  because of
• 5:32
  the money.
• 5:32
  People
• 5:33
  kind of
• 5:33
  think, you
• 5:34
  know, am I
• 5:35
  being
• 5:36
  Yeah, am
• 5:37
  I? Am I
• 5:38
  looking at
• 5:38
  in the
• 5:38
  wrong way?
• 5:39
  I don't
• 5:39
  think
• 5:39
  there's
• 5:39
  anything
• 5:40
  wrong with
• 5:40
  that at
• 5:41
  all, to be
• 5:41
  honest.
• 5:42
  But I
• 5:42
  think if
• 5:42
  you're
• 5:42
  going into
• 5:43
  sales
• 5:43
  leadership,
• 5:44
  you need
• 5:44
  to really
• 5:46
  have the
• 5:47
  right
• 5:47
  motivations
• 5:48
  behind it.
• 5:48
  So why?
• 5:49
  Why do you
• 5:49
  actually
• 5:50
  want to do
• 5:50
  it? And
• 5:52
  the big
• 5:52
  avoidance
• 5:53
  that I see
• 5:54
  time and
• 5:54
  time again
• 5:55
  is because
• 5:56
  you're
• 5:57
  really
• 5:57
  good at
• 5:57
  sales.
• 5:59
  Somebody
• 6:00
  spotted
• 6:00
  that and
• 6:00
  say, Hey,
• 6:01
  you're
• 6:01
  really
• 6:01
  good at
• 6:02
  sales. Can
• 6:02
  you lead
• 6:03
  the team?
• 6:04
  And that
• 6:05
  ends up as
• 6:06
  a
• 6:06
  disaster.
• 6:06
  A lot of a
• 6:07
  lot of the
• 6:07
  time
• 6:08
  watching
• 6:08
  that is,
• 6:09
  it's
• 6:09
  completely
• 6:10
  different
• 6:10
  job. It's
• 6:11
  totally
• 6:12
  different.
• 6:13
  I mean
• 6:13
  sales,
• 6:14
  sales
• 6:14
  leader
• 6:15
  that I
• 6:16
  don't, I
• 6:16
  don't even
• 6:17
  know why
• 6:17
  we
• 6:18
  actually
• 6:19
  make that
• 6:19
  an easy
• 6:20
  progression
• 6:21
  without it
• 6:22
  actually
• 6:22
  being
• 6:23
  looked at
• 6:23
  in a lot
• 6:24
  more
• 6:24
  detail.
• 6:25
  It's a
• 6:25
  different
• 6:26
  job. I
• 6:26
  think
• 6:27
  Mark Ackers: largely
• 6:27
  it comes
• 6:27
  down to
• 6:28
  wanting to
• 6:28
  retain
• 6:28
  talent.
• 6:29
  People
• 6:29
  want to
• 6:30
  take that
• 6:30
  step. If
• 6:31
  they're
• 6:31
  not going
• 6:31
  to get it
• 6:32
  here,
• 6:32
  they'll
• 6:32
  get it
• 6:32
  somewhere
• 6:33
  else. You
• 6:34
  lose that
• 6:34
  knowledge,
• 6:35
  that
• 6:35
  experience.
• 6:36
  I think
• 6:37
  that's
• 6:37
  largely
• 6:37
  what
• 6:38
  happens. I
• 6:39
  agree with
• 6:39
  you. It's
• 6:39
  totally
• 6:40
  different
• 6:40
  job. It's
• 6:41
  a totally
• 6:41
  different
• 6:41
  motion,
• 6:42
  mindset,
• 6:43
  etc. Can
• 6:45
  someone
• 6:46
  who's crap
• 6:47
  at sales
• 6:47
  be a good
• 6:47
  sales
• 6:48
  leader,
• 6:48
  though?
• 6:51
  Unknown: Well,
• 6:51
  controversially,
• 6:52
  I think
• 6:52
  they
• 6:52
  probably
• 6:53
  can. I
• 6:55
  think the
• 6:56
  problem
• 6:56
  there will
• 6:56
  be how
• 6:58
  they earn
• 6:58
  their
• 6:58
  respect
• 6:59
  and how
• 7:00
  they gain
• 7:01
  sort of
• 7:02
  trust with
• 7:03
  that, with
• 7:04
  their
• 7:04
  team,
• 7:05
  largely,
• 7:06
  people
• 7:08
  turn to
• 7:08
  people
• 7:08
  that they
• 7:09
  can see,
• 7:09
  that have
• 7:10
  gotten
• 7:10
  experience
• 7:11
  or
• 7:12
  something
• 7:12
  about
• 7:12
  them,
• 7:13
  that's,
• 7:13
  that's,
• 7:14
  that's
• 7:14
  done what
• 7:15
  they're
• 7:15
  doing, and
• 7:16
  they rely
• 7:16
  on that.
• 7:18
  But when
• 7:19
  you
• 7:19
  actually
• 7:20
  compare
• 7:21
  that to a
• 7:22
  lot of
• 7:23
  time. You
• 7:23
  know,
• 7:24
  sales guys
• 7:24
  always do
• 7:25
  this. We
• 7:25
  compare
• 7:25
  ourselves
• 7:26
  to sports
• 7:28
  coaches.
• 7:29
  Yeah, some
• 7:29
  of the
• 7:30
  best
• 7:30
  sports
• 7:30
  coaches
• 7:31
  weren't
• 7:31
  the best
• 7:32
  footballers
• 7:33
  or rugby
• 7:33
  players or
• 7:34
  tennis
• 7:35
  people
• 7:35
  themselves,
• 7:36
  but
• 7:36
  they've
• 7:37
  learned
• 7:37
  something
• 7:37
  else. So I
• 7:39
  think to
• 7:39
  answer
• 7:40
  your
• 7:40
  question,
• 7:40
  can you,
• 7:41
  can you be
• 7:41
  crap and
• 7:42
  be a good
• 7:43
  manager?
• 7:43
  Probably
• 7:44
  not, but
• 7:45
  you could
• 7:46
  get there.
• 7:46
  But you
• 7:47
  don't have
• 7:47
  to be
• 7:48
  amazing or
• 7:49
  an elite
• 7:50
  person to
• 7:50
  be able to
• 7:51
  do it. It
• 7:51
  feels like
• 7:52
  you need
• 7:52
  to usually
• 7:53
  play the
• 7:53
  sport,
• 7:54
  yeah, oh
• 7:55
  gosh,
• 7:55
  yeah,
• 7:55
  yeah. You
• 7:56
  need to
• 7:56
  have, you
• 7:57
  need to
• 7:57
  have done
• 7:57
  something
• 7:58
  in it, and
• 7:58
  you need
• 7:59
  to be able
• 7:59
  to carry
• 7:59
  some kind
• 8:00
  of
• 8:02
  Mark Ackers: experience
• 8:03
  and value
• 8:04
  and and,
• 8:06
  yeah, the
• 8:07
  big thing
• 8:08
  is about
• 8:08
  experience.
• 8:09
  People
• 8:10
  latch onto
• 8:10
  that
• 8:10
  because of
• 8:11
  the trust
• 8:11
  behind it.
• 8:12
  So here's
• 8:13
  something
• 8:13
  that's not
• 8:13
  It's not
• 8:14
  common,
• 8:14
  but it's
• 8:15
  not
• 8:15
  uncommon,
• 8:16
  and when I
• 8:16
  hear it on
• 8:18
  my
• 8:18
  discovery
• 8:18
  calls, I
• 8:19
  try to
• 8:20
  just hide
• 8:20
  my shock
• 8:23
  marketing
• 8:24
  managers
• 8:24
  being
• 8:25
  responsible
• 8:25
  for sales
• 8:26
  teams.
• 8:27
  What do
• 8:28
  you think
• 8:28
  are we
• 8:29
  still live
• 8:29
  set as it
• 8:30
  is?
• 8:30
  There's no
• 8:32
  nice, no,
• 8:33
  I agree.
• 8:34
  It's
• 8:35
  typically
• 8:35
  SDRs. SDRs
• 8:36
  feed into
• 8:37
  marketing
• 8:38
  because
• 8:38
  they're
• 8:38
  working on
• 8:39
  the leads,
• 8:39
  etc. But
• 8:40
  I've never
• 8:41
  understood
• 8:41
  that
• 8:41
  motion at
• 8:42
  all when I
• 8:42
  think it's
• 8:43
  crazy. And
• 8:44
  Unknown: no
• 8:44
  disrespect
• 8:45
  to
• 8:45
  marketeers,
• 8:46
  but again,
• 8:48
  it's a
• 8:48
  diff. It's
• 8:49
  a
• 8:49
  different
• 8:49
  kind of
• 8:49
  job.
• 8:50
  These,
• 8:50
  these jobs
• 8:50
  have got
• 8:51
  to gel
• 8:52
  together,
• 8:56
  Jigsaw
• 8:56
  into each
• 8:57
  other, if
• 8:57
  you like.
• 8:58
  But I
• 8:58
  think,
• 9:00
  yeah,
• 9:00
  yeah,
• 9:01
  sales is
• 9:02
  such a
• 9:03
  skill set.
• 9:05
  And
• 9:05
  there's
• 9:06
  probably
• 9:06
  some
• 9:06
  people
• 9:06
  that will
• 9:07
  watch this
• 9:07
  that will
• 9:08
  love what
• 9:08
  I'm going
• 9:09
  to say
• 9:09
  now, which
• 9:10
  it and it
• 9:10
  is a
• 9:11
  complex
• 9:11
  profession.
• 9:13
  And
• 9:13
  there's,
• 9:13
  there's a
• 9:14
  lot of
• 9:14
  people
• 9:14
  say, Oh,
• 9:15
  it's not a
• 9:15
  profession.
• 9:16
  And, yeah,
• 9:18
  it is. You
• 9:19
  can
• 9:19
  professionalize
• 9:20
  it. And I
• 9:20
  think,
• 9:21
  yeah,
• 9:21
  marketing
• 9:22
  is
• 9:22
  professional.
• 9:23
  Sales is
• 9:23
  professional,
• 9:24
  customer
• 9:25
  success,
• 9:26
  support,
• 9:27
  all these
• 9:28
  things
• 9:28
  work, but
• 9:28
  you I
• 9:30
  think it's
• 9:30
  a
• 9:30
  different
• 9:31
  discipline,
• 9:31
  marketing
• 9:32
  to sales
• 9:32
  definitely,
• 9:33
  Mark Ackers: totally
• 9:34
  agree.
• 9:35
  What are
• 9:36
  some of
• 9:36
  the
• 9:36
  misconceptions
• 9:38
  aspiring
• 9:38
  sales
• 9:39
  leaders
• 9:39
  have about
• 9:40
  the role
• 9:40
  of a sales
• 9:41
  leader. I
• 9:41
  Unknown: think
• 9:41
  the first
• 9:42
  one that
• 9:42
  springs
• 9:43
  straight
• 9:43
  to mind is
• 9:43
  that
• 9:44
  you're
• 9:44
  going to
• 9:44
  be the
• 9:44
  boss.
• 9:45
  You're now
• 9:45
  running
• 9:46
  things.
• 9:46
  You're
• 9:46
  you're
• 9:47
  now,
• 9:48
  you're now
• 9:49
  the
• 9:50
  leader,
• 9:50
  the boss.
• 9:51
  You know
• 9:51
  you're
• 9:51
  going to
• 9:52
  control
• 9:52
  stuff. And
• 9:54
  it's
• 9:54
  actually
• 9:55
  the flip
• 9:55
  of that. I
• 9:57
  I even
• 9:58
  talk to
• 9:58
  people
• 9:59
  and. About
• 10:00
  this
• 10:00
  where, if
• 10:01
  that's one
• 10:02
  of the
• 10:02
  things you
• 10:03
  think is
• 10:03
  going to
• 10:03
  be you've
• 10:05
  got 180
• 10:06
  degrees
• 10:07
  wrong, and
• 10:08
  actually
• 10:08
  you need
• 10:09
  to to turn
• 10:10
  that on
• 10:10
  his head.
• 10:11
  You're
• 10:11
  suddenly
• 10:12
  the the
• 10:13
  support
• 10:13
  person for
• 10:14
  the team.
• 10:15
  You're the
• 10:16
  you're the
• 10:17
  individual
• 10:17
  that's
• 10:18
  going to
• 10:18
  help them
• 10:19
  to be
• 10:19
  successful.
• 10:20
  You're
• 10:21
  also the
• 10:21
  person
• 10:22
  that's
• 10:22
  going to
• 10:23
  protect
• 10:24
  them from
• 10:24
  what comes
• 10:25
  down the
• 10:26
  hill from
• 10:27
  the C
• 10:28
  suite and
• 10:29
  the execs
• 10:29
  in the
• 10:29
  business
• 10:30
  as
• 10:30
  Mark Ackers: well.
• 10:30
  So you've,
• 10:32
  you know,
• 10:33
  if you
• 10:33
  think
• 10:34
  you're
• 10:34
  suddenly
• 10:35
  the boss,
• 10:36
  you're
• 10:37
  not, in
• 10:38
  fact,
• 10:38
  you've
• 10:38
  just
• 10:39
  completely
• 10:39
  twisted
• 10:40
  that
• 10:40
  around.
• 10:40
  And you
• 10:41
  said to me
• 10:41
  that when
• 10:42
  people do
• 10:43
  make the
• 10:43
  move to
• 10:44
  sales
• 10:45
  leader,
• 10:45
  they don't
• 10:46
  always
• 10:46
  have all
• 10:46
  the
• 10:47
  details
• 10:47
  before
• 10:47
  signing
• 10:48
  up. Is
• 10:49
  that what
• 10:49
  you're
• 10:49
  referring
• 10:50
  to there,
• 10:50
  or is
• 10:50
  there more
• 10:51
  details
• 10:51
  that
• 10:52
  you're
• 10:52
  referring
• 10:52
  to? I
• 10:53
  Unknown: think
• 10:54
  that's
• 10:54
  that's the
• 10:54
  that's the
• 10:55
  main
• 10:55
  that's the
• 10:55
  main
• 10:56
  details
• 10:56
  behind it,
• 10:57
  but it's
• 10:57
  also how
• 10:58
  to how to
• 10:59
  act in
• 11:00
  that in
• 11:01
  that role
• 11:01
  as well, I
• 11:02
  use
• 11:03
  another
• 11:03
  example of
• 11:06
  Alex
• 11:06
  Ferguson,
• 11:07
  who I know
• 11:08
  I'm in
• 11:08
  Newcastle,
• 11:09
  but yeah,
• 11:09
  you're
• 11:10
  Mark Ackers: in
• 11:10
  good
• 11:10
  company
• 11:11
  here, the
• 11:11
  greatest
• 11:12
  football
• 11:12
  manager in
• 11:12
  the world,
• 11:13
  Unknown: so
• 11:13
  but
• 11:13
  Ferguson
• 11:14
  was famous
• 11:14
  for making
• 11:16
  sure that
• 11:17
  he was
• 11:20
  taking the
• 11:21
  heat out
• 11:22
  of the
• 11:22
  situation.
• 11:23
  So if, if
• 11:26
  a game
• 11:26
  went badly
• 11:28
  and he was
• 11:29
  being
• 11:29
  interviewed,
• 11:30
  it's
• 11:31
  because he
• 11:31
  put people
• 11:32
  in the
• 11:32
  wrong
• 11:32
  places, he
• 11:33
  had the
• 11:34
  wrong
• 11:34
  strategy.
• 11:35
  He
• 11:36
  shouldn't
• 11:36
  have put
• 11:36
  so and so
• 11:37
  in a
• 11:37
  certain
• 11:37
  position,
• 11:38
  and it's
• 11:39
  down to
• 11:39
  him, all
• 11:40
  the refs,
• 11:41
  all the
• 11:42
  riffs,
• 11:42
  yeah,
• 11:43
  that's
• 11:43
  another
• 11:43
  option.
• 11:44
  But the
• 11:45
  the flip
• 11:46
  is also
• 11:46
  true. So
• 11:47
  if they
• 11:47
  walk away
• 11:48
  from a
• 11:48
  from a
• 11:49
  game, I
• 11:50
  don't two,
• 11:51
  three nil
• 11:51
  up or
• 11:51
  whatever,
• 11:53
  he would
• 11:53
  never take
• 11:54
  that glory
• 11:55
  whoever
• 11:55
  scored or
• 11:56
  whatever
• 11:56
  it was, it
• 11:57
  was, it
• 11:57
  was the
• 11:57
  setup and
• 11:58
  how they
• 11:59
  played
• 11:59
  together,
• 12:00
  how they
• 12:00
  made space
• 12:01
  for each
• 12:01
  other, so
• 12:02
  it was put
• 12:02
  back on
• 12:03
  them. And
• 12:03
  I think
• 12:03
  that's a
• 12:04
  that's a
• 12:05
  really
• 12:05
  great way
• 12:06
  of of
• 12:08
  explaining
• 12:08
  how the
• 12:09
  sales
• 12:10
  management
• 12:10
  works.
• 12:11
  Mark Ackers: I'm
• 12:11
  guessing
• 12:11
  you may
• 12:12
  have read
• 12:12
  it,
• 12:12
  because
• 12:12
  obviously
• 12:13
  you've
• 12:13
  referenced
• 12:13
  Alex
• 12:14
  Ferguson.
• 12:14
  But I
• 12:14
  think one
• 12:15
  of the
• 12:15
  best
• 12:15
  leadership
• 12:16
  books I've
• 12:17
  read is
• 12:18
  Alex
• 12:18
  Ferguson's
• 12:19
  book
• 12:19
  called
• 12:20
  leading.
• 12:21
  Yeah. It
• 12:21
  was co
• 12:21
  written
• 12:22
  with a
• 12:22
  chat
• 12:22
  called
• 12:22
  Michael.
• 12:23
  He's last
• 12:23
  time the
• 12:24
  number k,
• 12:24
  but I read
• 12:25
  that book
• 12:26
  a long
• 12:26
  time ago,
• 12:27
  and it
• 12:27
  made me
• 12:27
  realize
• 12:28
  he's not
• 12:29
  just the
• 12:30
  greatest
• 12:30
  football
• 12:30
  manager
• 12:31
  that ever
• 12:31
  lived.
• 12:31
  He's one
• 12:33
  of the
• 12:33
  greatest
• 12:34
  managers
• 12:34
  of people
• 12:35
  that
• 12:35
  lived.
• 12:36
  Yeah. Have
• 12:37
  you read
• 12:37
  the
• 12:37
  Unknown: book?
• 12:37
  Yeah,
• 12:38
  again,
• 12:39
  also a
• 12:39
  long time
• 12:40
  and a long
• 12:41
  time ago,
• 12:41
  but
• 12:42
  there's
• 12:42
  some,
• 12:42
  there's
• 12:43
  some
• 12:44
  learnings
• 12:44
  from that
• 12:44
  as well.
• 12:45
  For me
• 12:45
  was, and
• 12:46
  this is
• 12:46
  one of the
• 12:47
  other
• 12:47
  things
• 12:48
  that I'd
• 12:48
  say about
• 12:49
  the
• 12:49
  leadership
• 12:50
  side, is
• 12:50
  that it's
• 12:53
  understanding
• 12:53
  your own
• 12:54
  team's
• 12:54
  motivations
• 12:55
  and what's
• 12:56
  going on
• 12:56
  with with
• 12:57
  them. And
• 12:58
  I think
• 12:59
  Fergus
• 12:59
  talked
• 12:59
  about
• 13:00
  skulls and
• 13:01
  BEC and
• 13:01
  back at
• 13:01
  the back
• 13:02
  of the
• 13:02
  time. And
• 13:02
  what was,
• 13:03
  what was
• 13:04
  motivating
• 13:05
  the
• 13:05
  individuals,
• 13:08
  so that he
• 13:08
  could get
• 13:08
  the best
• 13:09
  out of out
• 13:10
  of people.
• 13:11
  And, yeah,
• 13:12
  it could
• 13:12
  be, you
• 13:13
  know,
• 13:13
  people are
• 13:14
  going to
• 13:14
  default in
• 13:15
  a sales
• 13:16
  role is
• 13:16
  going to
• 13:16
  be money.
• 13:17
  But is it?
• 13:18
  You know,
• 13:18
  what does
• 13:18
  the money
• 13:19
  do? What
• 13:19
  does the
• 13:20
  money
• 13:20
  bring I
• 13:22
  was, I was
• 13:22
  recently
• 13:23
  on, on a
• 13:24
  call with
• 13:24
  somebody
• 13:25
  who was
• 13:25
  talking
• 13:26
  about his
• 13:27
  own team,
• 13:27
  and one of
• 13:28
  the things
• 13:28
  I asked
• 13:29
  was, how
• 13:30
  much does
• 13:31
  he know
• 13:31
  about the
• 13:33
  team?
• 13:33
  He's,
• 13:33
  he's, he's
• 13:35
  leading.
• 13:35
  And we
• 13:36
  actually
• 13:36
  got that
• 13:37
  got to a
• 13:37
  point, and
• 13:37
  he was a
• 13:38
  little bit
• 13:38
  embarrassed
• 13:39
  by it, but
• 13:39
  I said,
• 13:39
  Well,
• 13:40
  look,
• 13:40
  don't be
• 13:40
  because
• 13:41
  I've seen
• 13:41
  this many
• 13:41
  times, but
• 13:42
  you've now
• 13:42
  got
• 13:42
  something
• 13:43
  to work
• 13:43
  on, where
• 13:45
  he didn't
• 13:45
  know he
• 13:46
  wasn't
• 13:46
  quite sure
• 13:47
  people's
• 13:47
  ages, he
• 13:48
  wasn't
• 13:48
  quite sure
• 13:49
  exactly
• 13:49
  where they
• 13:50
  lived, he
• 13:50
  wasn't
• 13:50
  sure who
• 13:51
  was
• 13:52
  married
• 13:52
  and who
• 13:52
  not, who
• 13:53
  had kids
• 13:53
  who
• 13:53
  didn't.
• 13:55
  And I
• 13:55
  think that
• 13:56
  you don't
• 13:57
  want to be
• 13:57
  intrusive
• 13:58
  into
• 13:58
  people's
• 13:59
  lives, but
• 14:00
  getting to
• 14:00
  know
• 14:01
  people,
• 14:02
  getting to
• 14:02
  know their
• 14:02
  motivations,
• 14:03
  understanding
• 14:04
  them as
• 14:06
  Alex
• 14:07
  Fergus,
• 14:08
  enables
• 14:08
  you to
• 14:09
  support
• 14:09
  people in
• 14:10
  the best
• 14:10
  possible
• 14:11
  way,
• 14:11
  through
• 14:11
  motivation.
• 14:12
  Yeah,
• 14:12
  absolutely.
• 14:13
  Mark Ackers: I
• 14:13
  always
• 14:13
  remember,
• 14:13
  actually,
• 14:14
  one of the
• 14:14
  things he
• 14:15
  would do
• 14:15
  is you'd
• 14:15
  understand
• 14:16
  not just
• 14:16
  who their
• 14:17
  parents
• 14:17
  were and
• 14:17
  where they
• 14:18
  lived, but
• 14:18
  who their
• 14:19
  grandparents
• 14:19
  were where
• 14:20
  they
• 14:20
  worked.
• 14:21
  And you
• 14:21
  talk a lot
• 14:22
  about
• 14:22
  that, but,
• 14:23
  you know,
• 14:23
  it's a
• 14:23
  fantastic
• 14:24
  book. I
• 14:24
  actually
• 14:24
  wrote a
• 14:25
  LinkedIn
• 14:25
  article
• 14:26
  many moons
• 14:26
  ago about
• 14:26
  like, five
• 14:27
  or six
• 14:27
  things I
• 14:28
  learned
• 14:28
  from their
• 14:28
  book.
• 14:29
  Okay, on
• 14:29
  leadership.
• 14:30
  I'll show
• 14:30
  you after
• 14:31
  this. But
• 14:31
  it was
• 14:31
  like
• 14:32
  pipeline
• 14:32
  generation.
• 14:33
  You always
• 14:33
  worked in
• 14:34
  four year
• 14:34
  cycles.
• 14:34
  Yeah. It
• 14:35
  was about
• 14:35
  motivation
• 14:36
  like that.
• 14:36
  Yeah,
• 14:36
  understanding
• 14:37
  is the the
• 14:38
  team, the
• 14:39
  family,
• 14:39
  motivates
• 14:39
  them. It
• 14:40
  was about
• 14:40
  recruitment.
• 14:41
  It was
• 14:41
  about the
• 14:42
  training.
• 14:43
  And I
• 14:43
  remember
• 14:44
  he had
• 14:44
  like, you
• 14:44
  know,
• 14:45
  someone
• 14:45
  dedicated
• 14:45
  just
• 14:46
  watching
• 14:46
  videos and
• 14:47
  just
• 14:47
  creating
• 14:47
  video
• 14:47
  clips. It
• 14:48
  was some
• 14:48
  really
• 14:49
  good book.
• 14:49
  Hello. I'm
• 14:50
  Mark the
• 14:50
  host of
• 14:51
  the I used
• 14:51
  to be crap
• 14:52
  at sales
• 14:52
  podcast.
• 14:53
  Thank you
• 14:53
  for
• 14:53
  listening.
• 14:54
  As a sales
• 14:54
  leader,
• 14:55
  you're
• 14:55
  responsible
• 14:56
  for the
• 14:56
  success of
• 14:56
  your sales
• 14:57
  team. That
• 14:57
  means you
• 14:58
  need to
• 14:58
  spend time
• 14:59
  coaching.
• 15:00
  And
• 15:00
  developing
• 15:00
  them,
• 15:00
  helping
• 15:01
  them fine
• 15:01
  tune the
• 15:02
  skill that
• 15:02
  is sales.
• 15:03
  Of course,
• 15:03
  the
• 15:04
  challenge
• 15:04
  is that
• 15:04
  can always
• 15:05
  wait till
• 15:05
  tomorrow.
• 15:06
  There's
• 15:06
  competing
• 15:07
  priorities,
• 15:07
  always
• 15:08
  taking you
• 15:08
  away from
• 15:09
  developing
• 15:10
  and
• 15:10
  coaching
• 15:10
  your sales
• 15:11
  team.
• 15:11
  That's
• 15:11
  where we
• 15:11
  come in.
• 15:12
  We can
• 15:12
  accelerate
• 15:13
  your
• 15:13
  team's
• 15:13
  development
• 15:14
  and
• 15:14
  performance
• 15:15
  by giving
• 15:15
  them
• 15:16
  access to
• 15:16
  one of our
• 15:17
  expert
• 15:18
  coaches.
• 15:18
  So what
• 15:19
  are some
• 15:19
  of the
• 15:19
  skills or
• 15:20
  knowledge
• 15:21
  areas that
• 15:22
  most first
• 15:23
  time
• 15:23
  sounds
• 15:23
  leaders
• 15:24
  lack, but
• 15:24
  are
• 15:24
  crucial
• 15:25
  for
• 15:25
  success in
• 15:26
  the role.
• 15:26
  Unknown: I
• 15:26
  think the
• 15:27
  the key
• 15:27
  thing I've
• 15:30
  proven to
• 15:30
  myself
• 15:31
  that makes
• 15:32
  a big
• 15:32
  impact is
• 15:34
  being able
• 15:35
  to really
• 15:36
  dig into
• 15:37
  details
• 15:38
  through
• 15:39
  through
• 15:39
  listening
• 15:40
  understanding
• 15:40
  situations.
• 15:42
  Yeah,
• 15:42
  well, that
• 15:42
  our whole
• 15:43
  sort of
• 15:43
  really
• 15:43
  being a
• 15:44
  good
• 15:44
  listener.
• 15:44
  You know,
• 15:45
  we talk
• 15:45
  about
• 15:46
  active
• 15:46
  listening
• 15:47
  now and
• 15:47
  paying
• 15:48
  attention
• 15:48
  to the to
• 15:49
  the
• 15:49
  detail.
• 15:50
  And
• 15:51
  everybody
• 15:52
  in the
• 15:52
  team will
• 15:52
  be very
• 15:53
  different.
• 15:54
  And so you
• 15:55
  need to
• 15:55
  peel back
• 15:56
  the layers
• 15:56
  of the
• 15:56
  onion, if
• 15:57
  you like,
• 15:57
  and get
• 15:58
  into the
• 15:58
  details
• 15:58
  things,
• 15:59
  but
• 15:59
  constantly
• 16:00
  listen.
• 16:01
  And, you
• 16:02
  know, be
• 16:03
  aware of
• 16:04
  what's
• 16:04
  going on.
• 16:05
  So I when
• 16:08
  I when I'm
• 16:09
  hearing
• 16:09
  other
• 16:10
  people,
• 16:10
  I'm
• 16:10
  reviewing
• 16:11
  those kind
• 16:11
  of one to
• 16:12
  one calls.
• 16:13
  Sometimes
• 16:13
  I feel
• 16:15
  like
• 16:15
  people are
• 16:15
  just going
• 16:16
  through
• 16:16
  the
• 16:16
  motions of
• 16:16
  a one to
• 16:17
  one, or
• 16:18
  they're
• 16:19
  just doing
• 16:20
  a check
• 16:20
  and
• 16:20
  balance of
• 16:21
  a deal
• 16:23
  with you
• 16:23
  or
• 16:23
  whatever,
• 16:23
  without
• 16:24
  really
• 16:24
  trying to
• 16:25
  get under
• 16:25
  the
• 16:25
  details of
• 16:26
  it, people
• 16:27
  skills.
• 16:27
  Then it's,
• 16:27
  only feels
• 16:28
  nice, it's
• 16:29
  people
• 16:29
  skills,
• 16:29
  but it's
• 16:30
  kind of,
• 16:31
  it's being
• 16:32
  prepared
• 16:33
  to go to
• 16:34
  the extra
• 16:35
  levels of
• 16:35
  detail on
• 16:36
  your
• 16:36
  questioning
• 16:37
  that
• 16:37
  really
• 16:38
  unpack
• 16:39
  what's
• 16:39
  going on,
• 16:40
  and
• 16:40
  therefore,
• 16:41
  then how
• 16:41
  you can
• 16:42
  help, how
• 16:43
  you can
• 16:43
  coach, how
• 16:43
  you can
• 16:44
  work with
• 16:45
  them on
• 16:45
  that
• 16:45
  basis.
• 16:46
  Because if
• 16:47
  it's too
• 16:47
  superficial,
• 16:49
  then
• 16:49
  you're
• 16:49
  really
• 16:49
  going to
• 16:50
  struggle.
• 16:50
  You won't
• 16:51
  really get
• 16:51
  Sure. Can
• 16:51
  you give
• 16:52
  Mark Ackers: me
• 16:52
  an example
• 16:53
  of where
• 16:53
  perhaps a
• 16:54
  conversation
• 16:54
  might take
• 16:55
  place,
• 16:55
  where it's
• 16:55
  superficial,
• 16:56
  an example
• 16:57
  of where a
• 16:57
  sales
• 16:58
  leader can
• 16:59
  dig deeper
• 16:59
  and get to
• 17:00
  the truth,
• 17:00
  and we can
• 17:00
  role play
• 17:01
  if you
• 17:01
  want.
• 17:01
  Well,
• 17:02
  Unknown: I
• 17:02
  think it's
• 17:03
  something.
• 17:03
  The other
• 17:03
  day,
• 17:04
  actually,
• 17:04
  I had a
• 17:04
  conversation
• 17:05
  with
• 17:05
  somebody
• 17:05
  where they
• 17:07
  were
• 17:07
  talking
• 17:07
  about a
• 17:08
  particular
• 17:09
  deal that
• 17:09
  was going
• 17:10
  going
• 17:10
  well, I
• 17:11
  and they
• 17:12
  were using
• 17:13
  language,
• 17:14
  and I
• 17:14
  reviewed
• 17:14
  the call
• 17:15
  with them,
• 17:15
  and it's
• 17:17
  like,
• 17:17
  yeah, they
• 17:17
  they said,
• 17:18
  everything's
• 17:18
  great,
• 17:19
  yeah, it's
• 17:19
  really,
• 17:19
  really
• 17:20
  good. And
• 17:21
  I said,
• 17:21
  Okay, and
• 17:22
  that's
• 17:22
  what
• 17:23
  you're
• 17:23
  saying,
• 17:23
  yeah,
• 17:23
  yeah. It's
• 17:24
  really,
• 17:24
  yeah. This
• 17:24
  deals
• 17:25
  brilliant.
• 17:25
  It's Yes,
• 17:26
  really,
• 17:26
  really
• 17:26
  good. And
• 17:28
  the guy
• 17:28
  was
• 17:28
  saying,
• 17:28
  okay, so
• 17:29
  it's on
• 17:30
  track and
• 17:30
  everything.
• 17:31
  Yep, it's
• 17:31
  on track,
• 17:32
  whatever.
• 17:33
  And then
• 17:33
  when, when
• 17:34
  we
• 17:34
  reviewed
• 17:34
  it
• 17:34
  afterwards,
• 17:35
  I was
• 17:35
  saying,
• 17:35
  Well,
• 17:36
  what? What
• 17:37
  does great
• 17:37
  mean? What
• 17:38
  does on
• 17:38
  track
• 17:39
  mean? And
• 17:40
  he said,
• 17:40
  well, that
• 17:40
  that means
• 17:41
  that,
• 17:41
  yeah, the
• 17:42
  pricing is
• 17:42
  good, the
• 17:43
  dates we
• 17:43
  put
• 17:43
  together
• 17:44
  is great.
• 17:45
  Everything's
• 17:45
  gonna work
• 17:46
  out. I
• 17:46
  said, does
• 17:48
  it? Yeah?
• 17:49
  Because
• 17:49
  you
• 17:49
  didn't,
• 17:50
  none of
• 17:50
  that was
• 17:50
  said. You
• 17:52
  assumed
• 17:52
  that,
• 17:53
  because
• 17:53
  they said
• 17:54
  to you,
• 17:54
  it's going
• 17:54
  great, but
• 17:56
  you didn't
• 17:57
  go any
• 17:57
  further
• 17:57
  with that.
• 17:58
  So and he
• 17:59
  said,
• 17:59
  Well, they
• 18:01
  said it
• 18:02
  was going
• 18:02
  great. I
• 18:02
  said,
• 18:03
  Yeah, but
• 18:03
  that's
• 18:03
  your DEF,
• 18:03
  his
• 18:04
  definition,
• 18:05
  and you've
• 18:05
  made an
• 18:06
  assumption.
• 18:07
  And I bet
• 18:08
  between
• 18:08
  you, him
• 18:10
  and the
• 18:11
  prospect,
• 18:11
  if I ask
• 18:12
  all three
• 18:12
  of you
• 18:12
  separately,
• 18:14
  you know,
• 18:14
  have
• 18:14
  different
• 18:15
  opinions.
• 18:15
  So that's
• 18:16
  kind of
• 18:16
  what I
• 18:16
  mean. I
• 18:17
  think you
• 18:17
  you'd need
• 18:18
  to dig
• 18:18
  deeper to
• 18:19
  make sure
• 18:20
  you can
• 18:21
  help
• 18:21
  support
• 18:21
  coach
• 18:22
  better.
• 18:23
  How
• 18:23
  Mark Ackers: can
• 18:23
  someone
• 18:24
  that right
• 18:25
  now isn't
• 18:26
  the first
• 18:26
  time
• 18:26
  leader, or
• 18:27
  someone
• 18:27
  that's
• 18:28
  just got
• 18:28
  in the
• 18:28
  rock how
• 18:29
  can they
• 18:29
  get that
• 18:30
  skill and
• 18:31
  experience?
• 18:31
  What are
• 18:31
  some of
• 18:32
  the things
• 18:32
  they can
• 18:32
  do to work
• 18:33
  on that?
• 18:33
  Unknown: That's
• 18:34
  a really
• 18:34
  good
• 18:34
  question,
• 18:34
  because I
• 18:35
  think the
• 18:35
  the
• 18:36
  opportunities
• 18:37
  are
• 18:38
  limited,
• 18:39
  but they
• 18:40
  are there.
• 18:40
  I think
• 18:41
  you need
• 18:41
  to make it
• 18:42
  happen
• 18:42
  yourself
• 18:43
  is one of
• 18:43
  the first
• 18:43
  things put
• 18:44
  yourself
• 18:45
  forward
• 18:47
  Mark Ackers: to
• 18:47
  your own
• 18:47
  manager.
• 18:48
  Maybe
• 18:48
  there's
• 18:49
  the maybe
• 18:50
  they're
• 18:50
  aware on a
• 18:50
  holiday or
• 18:51
  something,
• 18:52
  or they've
• 18:52
  got
• 18:52
  something
• 18:53
  else on
• 18:53
  and you
• 18:53
  could run
• 18:54
  a you
• 18:55
  could run
• 18:55
  a meeting
• 18:55
  yourself.
• 18:56
  Maybe
• 18:57
  there's
• 18:58
  opportunities
• 18:59
  for you to
• 19:00
  support
• 19:00
  your peers
• 19:01
  or
• 19:01
  somebody
• 19:01
  that's new
• 19:02
  into the
• 19:02
  group, but
• 19:04
  yeah, I
• 19:04
  would try
• 19:05
  to take
• 19:05
  opportunities
• 19:06
  to to sort
• 19:07
  of
• 19:07
  practice
• 19:08
  ahead of
• 19:08
  actually
• 19:09
  doing it
• 19:09
  for real,
• 19:10
  for sure.
• 19:10
  I think
• 19:11
  that's
• 19:11
  important.
• 19:12
  I've
• 19:12
  before had
• 19:13
  people
• 19:14
  that are
• 19:14
  SDRs want
• 19:15
  to be SDR
• 19:15
  managers,
• 19:16
  and we
• 19:16
  said,
• 19:16
  like, this
• 19:17
  is going
• 19:17
  to a long
• 19:18
  time, but
• 19:18
  like, a
• 19:19
  year long
• 19:19
  audition,
• 19:20
  yeah, and
• 19:20
  every
• 19:20
  quarter,
• 19:21
  they sort
• 19:22
  of almost
• 19:22
  unlock new
• 19:23
  responsibilities
• 19:24
  from me.
• 19:25
  Yeah. And
• 19:26
  I found
• 19:26
  that it
• 19:26
  starts off
• 19:27
  with, why
• 19:27
  did you
• 19:28
  lead some
• 19:28
  cool
• 19:28
  coaching?
• 19:29
  Um, got
• 19:30
  someone
• 19:30
  new
• 19:30
  joining.
• 19:31
  Can you
• 19:32
  shadow and
• 19:32
  help them
• 19:33
  and be
• 19:33
  their sort
• 19:34
  of buddy?
• 19:34
  And then
• 19:35
  it's, can
• 19:35
  you run a
• 19:36
  couple of
• 19:36
  one to
• 19:36
  ones for
• 19:37
  me? And
• 19:37
  then it's,
• 19:38
  could you
• 19:38
  get these
• 19:38
  reports
• 19:39
  for me?
• 19:39
  And then
• 19:40
  say you
• 19:40
  slowly get
• 19:41
  to the
• 19:41
  point
• 19:41
  where
• 19:42
  three
• 19:42
  months
• 19:42
  before the
• 19:43
  end of the
• 19:43
  year, it's
• 19:44
  like
• 19:45
  they're
• 19:45
  yours now,
• 19:45
  yeah, and
• 19:46
  so you get
• 19:47
  on, I
• 19:47
  think it
• 19:47
  has to be
• 19:48
  that soft
• 19:49
  launch,
• 19:50
  yeah,
• 19:50
  definitely
• 19:50
  don't do
• 19:51
  that. Do
• 19:51
  they
• 19:51
  normally
• 19:52
  just
• 19:52
  Unknown: promote
• 19:52
  it's
• 19:52
  incumbent
• 19:53
  on the
• 19:53
  individual
• 19:54
  themselves
• 19:55
  to to put
• 19:56
  themselves
• 19:56
  in that
• 19:57
  position
• 19:57
  in the
• 19:58
  first
• 19:58
  place. Um.
• 20:00
  Uh,
• 20:00
  personally,
• 20:01
  I've liked
• 20:01
  it when
• 20:03
  you know
• 20:04
  reports of
• 20:04
  mine have
• 20:05
  come
• 20:05
  forward
• 20:05
  and said
• 20:06
  they
• 20:06
  actually
• 20:06
  want that
• 20:07
  responsibility
• 20:08
  as well.
• 20:08
  So what I
• 20:09
  would say
• 20:10
  to people
• 20:10
  is, if you
• 20:12
  if you are
• 20:13
  considering
• 20:14
  that path,
• 20:15
  and again,
• 20:15
  check your
• 20:16
  reasons
• 20:16
  first of
• 20:17
  all. But
• 20:17
  if you are
• 20:17
  considering
• 20:18
  that path,
• 20:19
  then you
• 20:20
  know, put
• 20:22
  yourself
• 20:22
  forward
• 20:22
  for those
• 20:23
  sort of
• 20:23
  sort of
• 20:23
  opportunities.
• 20:25
  Make sure
• 20:26
  that your
• 20:27
  own
• 20:27
  manager is
• 20:27
  is aware
• 20:28
  of that,
• 20:29
  and I
• 20:29
  think that
• 20:30
  they would
• 20:31
  appreciate
• 20:31
  that as
• 20:32
  well, and
• 20:33
  it makes
• 20:33
  their life
• 20:34
  a little
• 20:34
  bit more
• 20:35
  interesting
• 20:35
  and maybe
• 20:36
  even
• 20:36
  easier.
• 20:36
  You've
• 20:37
  just taken
• 20:37
  a burden
• 20:38
  off
• 20:38
  somebody.
• 20:38
  Mark Ackers: That's
• 20:38
  always a
• 20:39
  great
• 20:39
  question
• 20:39
  that I've
• 20:40
  coached
• 20:41
  people
• 20:41
  myself to
• 20:41
  ask their
• 20:42
  manager,
• 20:42
  is there
• 20:43
  anything I
• 20:43
  can do to
• 20:44
  help you?
• 20:44
  Yeah, what
• 20:45
  can I take
• 20:45
  off your
• 20:46
  plate? And
• 20:47
  you start
• 20:47
  off with,
• 20:49
  I know
• 20:50
  when
• 20:50
  people
• 20:50
  have asked
• 20:50
  me this
• 20:51
  question,
• 20:51
  you start
• 20:52
  off by
• 20:52
  giving
• 20:52
  them the
• 20:53
  shit
• 20:53
  stuff,
• 20:53
  right? But
• 20:54
  when they
• 20:55
  start
• 20:55
  doing the
• 20:55
  job, you
• 20:56
  start
• 20:56
  giving
• 20:56
  them more
• 20:57
  and more
• 20:57
  and more
• 20:58
  and before
• 20:58
  they
• 20:58
  realize it
• 20:59
  that go to
• 20:59
  person.
• 21:00
  And I
• 21:00
  think
• 21:01
  that's a
• 21:01
  great
• 21:01
  question
• 21:01
  for
• 21:02
  anybody
• 21:02
  who asked
• 21:02
  their
• 21:03
  manager in
• 21:03
  a one to
• 21:03
  one, how's
• 21:04
  your day
• 21:05
  going?
• 21:05
  How's your
• 21:05
  week
• 21:05
  going?
• 21:06
  What's
• 21:06
  keeping
• 21:06
  you busy?
• 21:07
  Is there
• 21:07
  anything I
• 21:07
  can take
• 21:08
  off your
• 21:08
  plate,
• 21:09
  even if
• 21:09
  you're
• 21:09
  terrified
• 21:10
  there, say
• 21:10
  yes,
• 21:11
  because
• 21:11
  you won't
• 21:11
  know how
• 21:12
  to do it.
• 21:12
  I haven't
• 21:13
  asked you
• 21:13
  to do it.
• 21:13
  You need
• 21:14
  some help,
• 21:14
  and that's
• 21:15
  a great
• 21:15
  way to
• 21:16
  learn. I
• 21:16
  Unknown: think
• 21:16
  you could
• 21:17
  also not
• 21:18
  just ask
• 21:18
  them what.
• 21:20
  I think
• 21:20
  you could
• 21:21
  also offer
• 21:21
  up your
• 21:23
  opinion
• 21:23
  and a
• 21:24
  specific a
• 21:26
  specific
• 21:26
  offer. So
• 21:28
  rather
• 21:29
  than
• 21:29
  saying, Is
• 21:30
  there
• 21:30
  anything I
• 21:30
  can help
• 21:31
  with? Say,
• 21:32
  look, I
• 21:32
  know
• 21:32
  you've got
• 21:33
  a lot on
• 21:34
  your plate
• 21:34
  at the
• 21:35
  moment.
• 21:35
  You've got
• 21:36
  those
• 21:37
  reports
• 21:37
  you're
• 21:37
  trying to
• 21:38
  do for the
• 21:39
  for the
• 21:39
  exec,
• 21:40
  we've got
• 21:41
  a pipeline
• 21:41
  review
• 21:42
  meeting. I
• 21:43
  could run
• 21:43
  that for
• 21:43
  you if you
• 21:44
  want. I
• 21:44
  could try
• 21:44
  and help
• 21:45
  with that.
• 21:45
  Would that
• 21:46
  be useful?
• 21:46
  Yeah, be
• 21:47
  specific.
• 21:48
  Be be
• 21:49
  pushy. And
• 21:49
  that same
• 21:50
  tactic
• 21:50
  works at
• 21:50
  any level,
• 21:51
  you know,
• 21:52
  if you're
• 21:52
  even a
• 21:53
  first time
• 21:53
  manager.
• 21:53
  Now, that
• 21:54
  works if
• 21:55
  you want
• 21:55
  to go to
• 21:56
  the next
• 21:56
  show,
• 21:56
  absolutely.
• 21:57
  Um, talk
• 21:58
  about
• 21:58
  mindsets.
• 21:59
  If I said
• 22:00
  to you
• 22:00
  list a few
• 22:02
  of the
• 22:02
  traits of
• 22:03
  a top
• 22:04
  performing
• 22:04
  IC mindset
• 22:06
  wise, what
• 22:06
  would you
• 22:07
  say
• 22:07
  individual
• 22:08
  contributors
• 22:08
  should be
• 22:10
  very, very
• 22:11
  focused.
• 22:12
  Okay, so
• 22:13
  very
• 22:13
  focused.
• 22:14
  It's got
• 22:14
  to be
• 22:15
  diligent
• 22:16
  and
• 22:16
  methodical
• 22:17
  about what
• 22:17
  they what
• 22:18
  they're
• 22:18
  actually
• 22:18
  doing,
• 22:19
  okay? And
• 22:21
  I think
• 22:22
  also keep
• 22:24
  keep sort
• 22:25
  of zooming
• 22:26
  out of the
• 22:27
  the sort
• 22:28
  of the
• 22:28
  weeds they
• 22:29
  might be
• 22:29
  in in a
• 22:29
  particular
• 22:31
  deal or
• 22:31
  account or
• 22:32
  something
• 22:32
  going on,
• 22:32
  and keep
• 22:33
  taking a
• 22:34
  check of
• 22:34
  the bigger
• 22:35
  picture of
• 22:36
  what's
• 22:36
  going on.
• 22:36
  And that
• 22:38
  one, the
• 22:38
  last one
• 22:39
  of the
• 22:39
  last
• 22:39
  things I'd
• 22:40
  say as
• 22:40
  well, is
• 22:40
  just keep
• 22:43
  on
• 22:43
  qualifying.
• 22:43
  That's one
• 22:44
  of my
• 22:44
  little
• 22:44
  mantras to
• 22:45
  people
• 22:46
  I've
• 22:46
  worked
• 22:46
  with is,
• 22:48
  you know,
• 22:48
  right?
• 22:48
  I've moved
• 22:49
  from the
• 22:50
  ABC of
• 22:51
  always be
• 22:51
  closing to
• 22:52
  always be
• 22:52
  qualifying.
• 22:53
  I think
• 22:54
  it's
• 22:54
  important
• 22:55
  to just
• 22:55
  check
• 22:56
  yourself
• 22:56
  all the
• 22:57
  way
• 22:57
  through.
• 22:57
  And that's
• 22:58
  what I've
• 22:58
  seen, that
• 22:58
  the top
• 22:59
  guys do, I
• 23:00
  don't know
• 23:00
  the
• 23:00
  Mark Ackers: word
• 23:00
  selfish.
• 23:01
  No,
• 23:02
  they've
• 23:02
  got to be
• 23:03
  sort of
• 23:03
  focused on
• 23:04
  themselves
• 23:04
  and their
• 23:04
  opportunities,
• 23:05
  etc, to
• 23:07
  close on
• 23:07
  BEC,
• 23:07
  that's
• 23:07
  what you
• 23:08
  typically
• 23:08
  see top
• 23:09
  people do,
• 23:09
  like they
• 23:10
  don't mess
• 23:10
  around
• 23:11
  with other
• 23:11
  things.
• 23:12
  They're
• 23:12
  focused on
• 23:13
  themselves.
• 23:13
  Yeah,
• 23:14
  Unknown: I
• 23:14
  think I
• 23:14
  would not
• 23:15
  necessarily
• 23:16
  focus on
• 23:17
  themselves,
• 23:17
  but
• 23:17
  they're,
• 23:18
  they're
• 23:18
  myopic in
• 23:19
  the sense
• 23:19
  of needing
• 23:21
  to get
• 23:21
  something
• 23:22
  to a
• 23:22
  conclusion,
• 23:23
  yeah, and
• 23:24
  I think
• 23:24
  that it's
• 23:25
  also how
• 23:26
  you define
• 23:27
  that as
• 23:27
  well. So
• 23:28
  one of the
• 23:29
  other
• 23:31
  pieces of
• 23:32
  advice, or
• 23:32
  something
• 23:32
  I
• 23:32
  sometimes
• 23:33
  work with
• 23:33
  people on,
• 23:34
  is is make
• 23:36
  sure you
• 23:36
  get to an
• 23:37
  absolute
• 23:38
  on
• 23:38
  something
• 23:39
  so in a
• 23:41
  deal is
• 23:41
  either
• 23:41
  going to
• 23:42
  close or
• 23:42
  not, or
• 23:44
  the next
• 23:44
  meeting is
• 23:45
  either
• 23:45
  going to
• 23:45
  happen or
• 23:46
  not, or
• 23:47
  the
• 23:47
  proposal
• 23:48
  was either
• 23:48
  accepted
• 23:49
  or it
• 23:49
  wasn't, I
• 23:50
  think
• 23:51
  really
• 23:51
  good. Top
• 23:53
  sales
• 23:53
  people
• 23:54
  make sure
• 23:54
  they got
• 23:54
  to an
• 23:55
  absolute
• 23:55
  rather
• 23:55
  than Yeah,
• 23:56
  they
• 23:56
  thought it
• 23:56
  was okay,
• 23:57
  and we're
• 23:57
  going to
• 23:58
  review it
• 23:58
  next week,
• 23:58
  and it
• 23:59
  just you
• 23:59
  had that
• 23:59
  continuousness
• 24:00
  going on.
• 24:01
  So
• 24:01
  Mark Ackers: we've
• 24:01
  got the
• 24:02
  traits of
• 24:02
  an IC now,
• 24:03
  yeah, what
• 24:04
  are the
• 24:04
  traits of
• 24:04
  a
• 24:05
  successful
• 24:05
  manager?
• 24:06
  Yeah, I
• 24:06
  want to
• 24:07
  see how
• 24:07
  many
• 24:07
  overlap
• 24:08
  you see,
• 24:08
  Unknown: yeah,
• 24:08
  so, so a
• 24:09
  few of
• 24:09
  those
• 24:10
  overlap,
• 24:10
  but it's
• 24:10
  more, for
• 24:11
  me, I
• 24:12
  think it's
• 24:12
  more the
• 24:12
  understanding
• 24:13
  of those.
• 24:14
  So you've
• 24:15
  got a team
• 24:16
  of
• 24:16
  different
• 24:16
  individuals,
• 24:17
  and again,
• 24:19
  a quick a
• 24:19
  side
• 24:19
  story. I
• 24:20
  one of my
• 24:21
  disasters
• 24:21
  early on
• 24:22
  was
• 24:23
  creating a
• 24:24
  team of
• 24:24
  mini me's.
• 24:25
  It was an
• 24:26
  absolute
• 24:26
  nightmare.
• 24:27
  I thought,
• 24:28
  I do I do
• 24:29
  it. Okay?
• 24:30
  I do it
• 24:30
  well, so I
• 24:31
  just get
• 24:32
  everybody
• 24:32
  to do it
• 24:32
  my way.
• 24:33
  And I said
• 24:34
  to you off
• 24:35
  camera,
• 24:35
  one of my
• 24:35
  favorite
• 24:36
  quotes is,
• 24:37
  you know,
• 24:38
  one of
• 24:38
  Branson's,
• 24:39
  which is,
• 24:40
  you know,
• 24:40
  we hire
• 24:40
  great
• 24:41
  people,
• 24:41
  and then
• 24:41
  we tell
• 24:42
  them what
• 24:42
  to do, and
• 24:42
  that's
• 24:43
  what I was
• 24:43
  doing, and
• 24:45
  that's
• 24:46
  that's
• 24:46
  completely
• 24:46
  wrong,
• 24:47
  because
• 24:47
  there's
• 24:47
  many
• 24:47
  different
• 24:48
  ways of of
• 24:49
  completing
• 24:50
  what
• 24:51
  you're
• 24:51
  trying to
• 24:52
  achieve,
• 24:52
  and people
• 24:53
  would do
• 24:53
  it in
• 24:53
  different
• 24:53
  ways. So
• 24:55
  your job,
• 24:55
  from the
• 24:56
  manager
• 24:56
  point of
• 24:57
  view, is,
• 24:57
  is trying
• 24:57
  to
• 24:57
  understand
• 24:59
  specifically.
• 25:00
  Where
• 25:00
  people's
• 25:01
  strengths
• 25:02
  and
• 25:02
  weaknesses
• 25:04
  opportunities
• 25:04
  are, and
• 25:06
  supporting
• 25:06
  those
• 25:07
  specifically
• 25:08
  in those
• 25:09
  opportunities
• 25:09
  with those
• 25:10
  individuals,
• 25:11
  rather
• 25:11
  than just
• 25:12
  being
• 25:14
  Mark Ackers: focused
• 25:14
  on it,
• 25:14
  doing it
• 25:15
  one
• 25:15
  particular
• 25:16
  way. So
• 25:16
  you
• 25:16
  mentioned
• 25:16
  a lot of
• 25:17
  interesting
• 25:17
  things
• 25:18
  there. I
• 25:18
  definitely
• 25:18
  want to
• 25:19
  get on to
• 25:20
  the
• 25:20
  mistake of
• 25:20
  hiring
• 25:21
  your words
• 25:22
  many use,
• 25:22
  yeah,
• 25:23
  don't do
• 25:23
  that,
• 25:24
  because I
• 25:24
  want to
• 25:25
  talk
• 25:25
  about,
• 25:25
  like,
• 25:25
  leading
• 25:26
  diverse
• 25:26
  teams. But
• 25:27
  before we
• 25:27
  get to
• 25:27
  that, I
• 25:29
  feel like
• 25:29
  I've still
• 25:29
  not got
• 25:30
  the answer
• 25:30
  that I'm
• 25:31
  looking
• 25:31
  for in the
• 25:32
  sense of
• 25:34
  the
• 25:34
  different
• 25:35
  personality
• 25:35
  traits of
• 25:37
  a
• 25:37
  successful
• 25:38
  IC, okay,
• 25:39
  and a
• 25:39
  sales
• 25:39
  manager,
• 25:40
  because
• 25:41
  that is
• 25:41
  often who
• 25:42
  becomes a
• 25:42
  sales
• 25:42
  manager, a
• 25:43
  successful
• 25:44
  IC. And I
• 25:45
  know that
• 25:46
  it's
• 25:46
  totally
• 25:47
  new
• 25:47
  personality
• 25:48
  traits
• 25:48
  that are
• 25:49
  needed,
• 25:49
  and that's
• 25:50
  where it
• 25:50
  sort of
• 25:50
  falls
• 25:51
  down.
• 25:51
  What? So
• 25:51
  we've
• 25:52
  covered
• 25:52
  the traits
• 25:52
  to an
• 25:53
  individual
• 25:53
  I see that
• 25:54
  successful,
• 25:55
  yeah, what
• 25:55
  are the
• 25:55
  traits
• 25:56
  needed to
• 25:56
  be a
• 25:57
  successful
• 25:57
  sales
• 25:57
  leader? To
• 25:58
  build
• 25:59
  Unknown: on
• 25:59
  your one
• 26:00
  you didn't
• 26:00
  want to
• 26:00
  use the
• 26:01
  selfishness.
• 26:02
  It's not a
• 26:03
  complete
• 26:04
  opposite
• 26:04
  to it, but
• 26:05
  empathy
• 26:06
  and
• 26:06
  understanding
• 26:07
  and
• 26:07
  support is
• 26:08
  kind of,
• 26:10
  you know,
• 26:10
  strong
• 26:11
  values
• 26:12
  that and
• 26:14
  traits, if
• 26:14
  you like,
• 26:15
  that
• 26:15
  somebody
• 26:15
  in the
• 26:16
  management
• 26:16
  position
• 26:17
  needs to
• 26:17
  have. I
• 26:17
  feel, and
• 26:20
  and I
• 26:20
  don't mean
• 26:21
  that in a
• 26:21
  sort of
• 26:22
  soft way,
• 26:23
  as though
• 26:23
  you got
• 26:23
  to, you
• 26:24
  know that
• 26:24
  can be
• 26:25
  tough love
• 26:26
  as well,
• 26:26
  but you've
• 26:27
  got to be
• 26:27
  the person
• 26:28
  that is,
• 26:30
  is
• 26:30
  supportive
• 26:31
  and
• 26:32
  empathizes
• 26:32
  with
• 26:33
  positions,
• 26:34
  digs in to
• 26:35
  understand
• 26:36
  things,
• 26:36
  can see
• 26:38
  the bigger
• 26:38
  picture,
• 26:39
  and Can
• 26:39
  and work
• 26:40
  in a way,
• 26:41
  to coach
• 26:42
  the people
• 26:43
  that
• 26:44
  you're
• 26:44
  working
• 26:45
  with that
• 26:45
  are in
• 26:45
  there, in
• 26:46
  your team.
• 26:47
  And so I
• 26:48
  think
• 26:48
  you've
• 26:49
  got,
• 26:49
  rather the
• 26:50
  ICs are
• 26:51
  completely
• 26:53
  myopically
• 26:54
  focused,
• 26:55
  and let's
• 26:56
  use it
• 26:57
  selfish on
• 26:58
  what
• 26:58
  they're
• 26:58
  doing. But
• 26:59
  as a as a
• 27:01
  leader.
• 27:01
  You can't,
• 27:01
  you can't
• 27:02
  be you've
• 27:03
  you've got
• 27:03
  a you're
• 27:04
  looking at
• 27:04
  them, not
• 27:05
  the deal.
• 27:05
  You're
• 27:05
  looking at
• 27:06
  the team.
• 27:06
  You're
• 27:06
  looking at
• 27:07
  what the
• 27:07
  company is
• 27:07
  doing.
• 27:08
  You've got
• 27:09
  a wider
• 27:09
  set of
• 27:09
  responsibilities.
• 27:11
  Mark Ackers: Here's
• 27:11
  here's the
• 27:12
  difficulty
• 27:12
  that I'm
• 27:12
  seeing,
• 27:13
  and it's
• 27:13
  just a
• 27:13
  good
• 27:14
  conversation.
• 27:15
  Is empathy
• 27:15
  something
• 27:16
  that you
• 27:16
  either
• 27:16
  have or
• 27:17
  don't
• 27:17
  have, or
• 27:17
  is it
• 27:18
  something
• 27:18
  you can
• 27:18
  learn? Can
• 27:19
  Unknown: you
• 27:19
  learn
• 27:20
  empathy?
• 27:20
  That's a
• 27:21
  that's a
• 27:21
  great one.
• 27:22
  I'm not
• 27:22
  sure. I'm
• 27:23
  not sure.
• 27:24
  I think, I
• 27:26
  think you
• 27:26
  can become
• 27:27
  more
• 27:27
  empathetic
• 27:29
  over time,
• 27:31
  and I
• 27:31
  think you
• 27:31
  realize
• 27:32
  and
• 27:32
  understand
• 27:34
  the the
• 27:34
  importance
• 27:35
  of that.
• 27:36
  But I
• 27:36
  would also
• 27:37
  say,
• 27:37
  actually,
• 27:38
  you know,
• 27:38
  you
• 27:39
  probably
• 27:39
  need to be
• 27:40
  a little
• 27:40
  bit hard
• 27:41
  and nose
• 27:41
  when
• 27:41
  you're
• 27:42
  when
• 27:42
  you're an
• 27:43
  IC
• 27:43
  yourself.
• 27:44
  And maybe
• 27:46
  there
• 27:46
  isn't as
• 27:47
  much
• 27:47
  empathy in
• 27:48
  in that,
• 27:49
  in that as
• 27:50
  a trait of
• 27:51
  an
• 27:51
  individual.
• 27:52
  But
• 27:53
  definitely
• 27:54
  you need
• 27:54
  to have
• 27:54
  that. And
• 27:55
  can you
• 27:55
  learn it?
• 27:56
  I think, I
• 27:57
  think
• 27:57
  you'll
• 27:58
  get,
• 27:58
  you'll
• 27:58
  become
• 27:59
  more
• 27:59
  empathetic
• 27:59
  as you get
• 28:00
  more
• 28:01
  experienced
• 28:01
  or older,
• 28:02
  if I'm
• 28:02
  allowed to
• 28:03
  say older,
• 28:05
  because
• 28:05
  that
• 28:05
  that's
• 28:05
  how,
• 28:06
  that's how
• 28:06
  I think
• 28:07
  people
• 28:07
  naturally
• 28:07
  develop.
• 28:08
  They're
• 28:09
  more
• 28:09
  understanding
• 28:10
  of their
• 28:10
  environments,
• 28:11
  that
• 28:11
  they're
• 28:11
  more
• 28:12
  empathetic
• 28:13
  about
• 28:13
  what's
• 28:13
  going on.
• 28:15
  Mark Ackers: It's
• 28:15
  just in
• 28:16
  sales
• 28:17
  every
• 28:18
  month,
• 28:18
  every
• 28:19
  quarter,
• 28:20
  there's
• 28:20
  targets to
• 28:20
  be here.
• 28:21
  Yeah,
• 28:21
  there's
• 28:21
  pressure
• 28:22
  from every
• 28:22
  direction.
• 28:23
  Sure, not
• 28:24
  only you
• 28:24
  trying to
• 28:25
  bring in
• 28:25
  new logos.
• 28:26
  You're
• 28:26
  sometimes
• 28:27
  having to
• 28:27
  pick up
• 28:28
  the slack
• 28:28
  from
• 28:29
  churn,
• 28:30
  right? And
• 28:30
  that gets
• 28:31
  added to
• 28:31
  your
• 28:31
  target. It
• 28:32
  can be a
• 28:33
  hard time
• 28:35
  to have
• 28:35
  empathy
• 28:36
  when you
• 28:36
  feel like
• 28:37
  everything's
• 28:38
  against
• 28:38
  you and
• 28:39
  you're
• 28:39
  just
• 28:39
  living on
• 28:40
  their
• 28:40
  hamster
• 28:40
  every
• 28:41
  month,
• 28:41
  every
• 28:41
  quarter.
• 28:43
  And
• 28:43
  empathy
• 28:43
  doesn't
• 28:44
  help you
• 28:44
  when
• 28:44
  you're
• 28:45
  forecasting
• 28:46
  deals and
• 28:47
  putting
• 28:48
  numbers
• 28:48
  across to
• 28:49
  the people
• 28:49
  above you,
• 28:50
  I can see
• 28:50
  why sales
• 28:51
  do the
• 28:51
  struggle
• 28:51
  with
• 28:52
  Unknown: that.
• 28:52
  Yeah, no,
• 28:52
  I do too,
• 28:53
  but so
• 28:54
  don't,
• 28:55
  don't
• 28:55
  make,
• 28:55
  don't make
• 28:55
  this sort
• 28:56
  of leap
• 28:58
  between
• 28:59
  empathy
• 28:59
  and being
• 29:00
  soft on
• 29:01
  this or,
• 29:02
  or just
• 29:03
  saying,
• 29:03
  Oh, well,
• 29:03
  that, you
• 29:04
  know,
• 29:04
  never
• 29:04
  mind. Is
• 29:05
  really,
• 29:05
  really
• 29:05
  tough. I'm
• 29:05
  not saying
• 29:06
  that kind
• 29:07
  of
• 29:07
  empathy,
• 29:07
  being
• 29:07
  empathetic
• 29:08
  in that
• 29:08
  is, is
• 29:09
  understanding
• 29:10
  somebody's
• 29:10
  situation,
• 29:11
  is
• 29:11
  understanding
• 29:12
  how
• 29:12
  they're
• 29:12
  doing it,
• 29:13
  is
• 29:13
  understanding
• 29:14
  the
• 29:15
  pressures
• 29:16
  and maybe
• 29:16
  the the
• 29:18
  the
• 29:18
  different
• 29:19
  ways they
• 29:19
  need to
• 29:20
  work in a
• 29:20
  certain
• 29:20
  situation,
• 29:21
  so by
• 29:23
  being more
• 29:23
  empathetic
• 29:24
  your
• 29:24
  understanding
• 29:25
  of the
• 29:25
  situation,
• 29:26
  and
• 29:26
  therefore
• 29:27
  you're
• 29:28
  then
• 29:28
  better
• 29:28
  positioned
• 29:29
  to help,
• 29:30
  support,
• 29:31
  coach,
• 29:31
  advise,
• 29:32
  whatever
• 29:32
  you need
• 29:32
  to do. But
• 29:33
  you can't
• 29:34
  do that
• 29:35
  unless
• 29:36
  you've
• 29:36
  really
• 29:37
  understood
• 29:37
  them at a
• 29:38
  at a
• 29:39
  pretty
• 29:39
  decent,
• 29:40
  detailed
• 29:41
  level,
• 29:41
  Mark Ackers: and
• 29:42
  that's
• 29:42
  only
• 29:43
  harder
• 29:43
  when you
• 29:44
  imagine
• 29:44
  remote
• 29:45
  teams.
• 29:45
  What do
• 29:45
  you think
• 29:46
  would
• 29:46
  happen if
• 29:46
  your sales
• 29:47
  team had
• 29:48
  on demand
• 29:48
  access to
• 29:49
  a sales
• 29:50
  expert,
• 29:50
  someone
• 29:50
  that
• 29:51
  wasn't
• 29:51
  their
• 29:51
  boss,
• 29:51
  someone
• 29:52
  that
• 29:52
  wasn't
• 29:52
  connected
• 29:53
  to the
• 29:53
  company
• 29:53
  goal,
• 29:54
  someone
• 29:54
  that was
• 29:54
  simply
• 29:55
  there to
• 29:55
  help them
• 29:56
  grow and
• 29:57
  develop
• 29:57
  their
• 29:57
  skill set.
• 29:58
  What do
• 29:58
  you think
• 29:58
  would
• 29:58
  happen to
• 29:59
  your sales
• 29:59
  team?
• 30:00
  Team, if
• 30:00
  they could
• 30:00
  have that
• 30:01
  time with
• 30:01
  a sales
• 30:01
  expert
• 30:02
  whenever
• 30:02
  they
• 30:02
  needed it.
• 30:03
  What
• 30:03
  results do
• 30:04
  you think
• 30:04
  you would
• 30:04
  see? Why
• 30:05
  not find
• 30:06
  out? Speak
• 30:06
  to my
• 30:06
  sales
• 30:07
  coach, and
• 30:07
  we'll
• 30:07
  share how
• 30:08
  we can
• 30:08
  help.
• 30:08
  Unknown: Yeah,
• 30:09
  I struggle
• 30:10
  with the
• 30:10
  whole
• 30:10
  thing
• 30:10
  about
• 30:12
  remote
• 30:12
  teams,
• 30:13
  maybe
• 30:13
  because I
• 30:14
  don't
• 30:14
  know. I'm
• 30:15
  a Gen Xer
• 30:16
  and I like
• 30:16
  being out
• 30:16
  in front
• 30:17
  of people
• 30:17
  more, and
• 30:18
  everything's
• 30:19
  moving to
• 30:20
  zoom. I've
• 30:21
  managed to
• 30:21
  adjust my
• 30:22
  own kind
• 30:22
  of work,
• 30:23
  but I do
• 30:25
  find that
• 30:26
  being in
• 30:26
  front of
• 30:27
  people,
• 30:28
  trying to
• 30:28
  make those
• 30:29
  trying to
• 30:30
  have that
• 30:30
  opportunity,
• 30:31
  is really,
• 30:32
  really
• 30:32
  important.
• 30:32
  So
• 30:33
  actually,
• 30:33
  it's good
• 30:33
  that you
• 30:34
  mentioned
• 30:34
  that. I
• 30:34
  think that
• 30:35
  you know
• 30:36
  where you
• 30:36
  can just
• 30:37
  get out in
• 30:38
  front of
• 30:38
  people and
• 30:40
  talk to
• 30:40
  people I
• 30:41
  was, I was
• 30:41
  actually
• 30:42
  talking to
• 30:42
  my son
• 30:44
  yesterday
• 30:44
  about
• 30:45
  this. He's
• 30:46
  He's 25
• 30:47
  he's in a
• 30:47
  sales role
• 30:48
  himself
• 30:48
  now. And
• 30:52
  one of the
• 30:52
  things he
• 30:53
  one of the
• 30:53
  things he
• 30:53
  said to me
• 30:54
  was about
• 30:56
  different
• 30:57
  communication
• 30:57
  channels,
• 30:58
  and there
• 30:59
  was a
• 30:59
  situation
• 31:00
  which is
• 31:00
  going back
• 31:01
  and forth
• 31:01
  over email
• 31:03
  three or
• 31:03
  four
• 31:03
  times,
• 31:04
  just pick
• 31:04
  up the
• 31:04
  phone. And
• 31:05
  he picked
• 31:05
  up the
• 31:06
  phone. And
• 31:06
  I was
• 31:06
  thinking
• 31:07
  like, Oh,
• 31:07
  hallelujah.
• 31:07
  He just,
• 31:08
  you know,
• 31:08
  and he
• 31:09
  said,
• 31:09
  yeah, just
• 31:09
  pick up
• 31:09
  the phone.
• 31:10
  Just talk
• 31:10
  to I went,
• 31:11
  Yes. And I
• 31:12
  think
• 31:12
  that, you
• 31:13
  know, talk
• 31:13
  to people,
• 31:14
  meet with
• 31:14
  people,
• 31:15
  get in
• 31:15
  front of
• 31:15
  people.
• 31:16
  That's,
• 31:16
  that's
• 31:16
  when that
• 31:16
  happens.
• 31:17
  And the
• 31:18
  story you
• 31:18
  told was
• 31:19
  the the
• 31:20
  individual
• 31:22
  in the
• 31:22
  email was
• 31:23
  really
• 31:23
  cross
• 31:23
  about
• 31:24
  something
• 31:24
  that had
• 31:25
  happened
• 31:25
  in the
• 31:25
  business.
• 31:26
  Nothing to
• 31:26
  do with
• 31:26
  him. It
• 31:27
  was a it
• 31:28
  was a
• 31:28
  support
• 31:28
  call or
• 31:29
  something.
• 31:30
  And the
• 31:30
  support
• 31:30
  guy said,
• 31:31
  well, I
• 31:31
  need this
• 31:31
  information.
• 31:32
  And he
• 31:33
  said,
• 31:33
  Well,
• 31:33
  you've
• 31:33
  already
• 31:33
  got it.
• 31:34
  This is
• 31:34
  going back
• 31:35
  and forth.
• 31:36
  And Oscar,
• 31:39
  my son,
• 31:39
  phone,
• 31:39
  phoned him
• 31:40
  up and
• 31:42
  said, Hey,
• 31:45
  are you
• 31:45
  having a
• 31:46
  problem
• 31:46
  with this?
• 31:46
  Do you
• 31:47
  know what
• 31:47
  the first
• 31:48
  thing this
• 31:48
  guy said?
• 31:49
  He said,
• 31:50
  Oscar, I'm
• 31:51
  so I'm so
• 31:51
  sorry. I
• 31:51
  probably
• 31:52
  was just,
• 31:52
  you know,
• 31:52
  ranting
• 31:53
  that poor
• 31:54
  guy. I
• 31:54
  didn't, I
• 31:54
  didn't
• 31:54
  mean to do
• 31:55
  that.
• 31:55
  Thank
• 31:55
  Thanks for
• 31:56
  calling.
• 31:56
  Yeah, we
• 31:56
  got a
• 31:57
  problem
• 31:57
  with so
• 31:57
  and so he
• 31:58
  apologized
• 31:59
  straight
• 32:00
  away,
• 32:00
  because he
• 32:01
  knew as
• 32:01
  well. So I
• 32:01
  think, you
• 32:03
  know,
• 32:03
  empathy
• 32:04
  can go a
• 32:04
  long way
• 32:05
  when you
• 32:05
  actually
• 32:06
  have a
• 32:06
  conversation,
• 32:07
  or you're
• 32:07
  in front
• 32:07
  of
• 32:08
  somebody,
• 32:08
  or you're
• 32:08
  talking to
• 32:09
  Mark Ackers: I
• 32:10
  totally
• 32:10
  agree. I
• 32:11
  always use
• 32:11
  the same
• 32:11
  example.
• 32:12
  You might
• 32:12
  have heard
• 32:13
  it, but
• 32:13
  just how
• 32:14
  the
• 32:14
  written
• 32:14
  word could
• 32:15
  be lost.
• 32:15
  Oh yeah.
• 32:16
  So the
• 32:17
  sentence
• 32:18
  if you
• 32:18
  heard is,
• 32:19
  I didn't
• 32:19
  say she
• 32:20
  stole the
• 32:20
  money.
• 32:20
  Have you
• 32:21
  heard of
• 32:21
  this
• 32:21
  example? I
• 32:22
  think I
• 32:22
  know where
• 32:23
  you're
• 32:23
  going with
• 32:23
  it. So
• 32:24
  basically,
• 32:24
  that
• 32:24
  sentence,
• 32:25
  I didn't
• 32:25
  say she
• 32:26
  stole the
• 32:26
  money. You
• 32:27
  can
• 32:27
  emphasize
• 32:28
  any word,
• 32:29
  and the
• 32:29
  sentence
• 32:30
  completely
• 32:30
  changes
• 32:31
  the
• 32:31
  meaning.
• 32:31
  Yeah, it's
• 32:32
  a pick up
• 32:32
  random
• 32:33
  word about
• 32:33
  that
• 32:33
  sentence,
• 32:34
  money. I
• 32:35
  didn't say
• 32:35
  she stole
• 32:36
  the money,
• 32:37
  right? We
• 32:38
  know what
• 32:38
  I mean.
• 32:38
  Now, pick
• 32:38
  a
• 32:39
  different
• 32:39
  word, say,
• 32:42
  I didn't
• 32:42
  say if you
• 32:44
  stole the
• 32:44
  money.
• 32:44
  Totally
• 32:45
  different,
• 32:45
  interesting.
• 32:46
  I reckon
• 32:47
  I've asked
• 32:47
  people to
• 32:48
  pick a
• 32:48
  word
• 32:49
  couple 100
• 32:50
  times.
• 32:50
  Everyone
• 32:51
  always
• 32:51
  picks the
• 32:51
  word
• 32:52
  stole, but
• 32:52
  you went
• 32:52
  for money.
• 32:53
  No,
• 32:53
  because I
• 32:54
  knew that
• 32:54
  you
• 32:55
  probably
• 32:55
  knew that
• 32:55
  you wanted
• 32:56
  me to say
• 32:56
  stole,
• 32:57
  yeah, but
• 32:57
  that's my
• 32:58
  point.
• 32:58
  When
• 32:58
  you're
• 32:58
  reading an
• 32:59
  email,
• 32:59
  yeah, you
• 33:00
  read it
• 33:01
  how you
• 33:02
  want to
• 33:02
  read it,
• 33:03
  not
• 33:03
  necessarily
• 33:04
  how it's
• 33:04
  been
• 33:04
  written.
• 33:05
  This comes
• 33:06
  back down
• 33:06
  to being
• 33:06
  under
• 33:06
  pressure.
• 33:07
  Yeah,
• 33:07
  Unknown: it
• 33:07
  does. And
• 33:08
  I think
• 33:10
  you raise
• 33:10
  a good
• 33:10
  point on
• 33:11
  that, and
• 33:11
  it's also
• 33:12
  true with
• 33:13
  I mean, I
• 33:14
  don't work
• 33:14
  with a lot
• 33:15
  of SDR
• 33:17
  outbound
• 33:18
  team,
• 33:18
  because I
• 33:18
  know that
• 33:18
  we've got
• 33:19
  some
• 33:19
  people
• 33:19
  that do a
• 33:20
  brilliant
• 33:20
  job of
• 33:20
  that, much
• 33:21
  better
• 33:21
  than I
• 33:21
  would ever
• 33:22
  do. But I
• 33:23
  one of the
• 33:24
  things
• 33:24
  that comes
• 33:25
  across
• 33:25
  when I
• 33:25
  have seen
• 33:27
  and
• 33:27
  listened
• 33:27
  to those
• 33:27
  conversations
• 33:28
  is also
• 33:29
  the
• 33:30
  tonality
• 33:30
  in what
• 33:31
  people do.
• 33:32
  So you
• 33:33
  know, one
• 33:33
  that I
• 33:33
  think, one
• 33:34
  of the
• 33:34
  worst
• 33:34
  things
• 33:34
  that I've
• 33:35
  I can, I
• 33:36
  still hear
• 33:37
  and see,
• 33:38
  is when
• 33:38
  people are
• 33:38
  given
• 33:39
  scripts,
• 33:40
  unless you
• 33:41
  can get
• 33:42
  into a way
• 33:44
  of
• 33:44
  talking,
• 33:45
  get your
• 33:45
  tonality
• 33:46
  right,
• 33:46
  your pace,
• 33:47
  your
• 33:48
  cadence,
• 33:48
  everything's
• 33:49
  going on,
• 33:50
  you could
• 33:50
  come
• 33:51
  across
• 33:51
  really,
• 33:52
  really
• 33:52
  awkward.
• 33:53
  You can
• 33:53
  Mark Ackers: tell
• 33:53
  when
• 33:53
  someone's
• 33:54
  reading
• 33:54
  from a
• 33:55
  script.
• 33:55
  Yeah, I
• 33:56
  believe
• 33:56
  you should
• 33:56
  have a
• 33:56
  script,
• 33:57
  but it's
• 33:57
  more how I
• 33:58
  would
• 33:58
  describe
• 33:59
  if I was
• 34:00
  gonna get
• 34:00
  in the car
• 34:01
  now, yeah,
• 34:01
  with you
• 34:02
  and drive
• 34:02
  to
• 34:02
  Manchester,
• 34:03
  I could
• 34:04
  get you
• 34:04
  there. No
• 34:04
  bother.
• 34:05
  I've done
• 34:05
  that drive
• 34:06
  hundreds
• 34:06
  of times.
• 34:07
  I still
• 34:07
  have a sat
• 34:08
  nav on. I
• 34:09
  don't
• 34:09
  stare at
• 34:10
  it because
• 34:10
  I'd crash,
• 34:11
  sure,
• 34:11
  because
• 34:12
  we'd be
• 34:12
  deep in
• 34:12
  conversation.
• 34:14
  I know I'd
• 34:14
  miss the
• 34:15
  exit
• 34:15
  because
• 34:16
  I'm just,
• 34:16
  I'm not so
• 34:17
  I sort of
• 34:18
  feel like
• 34:18
  script
• 34:19
  should be
• 34:19
  just that
• 34:20
  safety
• 34:20
  net, that
• 34:21
  checkpoint
• 34:22
  that you
• 34:22
  sort of
• 34:22
  just
• 34:23
  glance at
• 34:23
  when you
• 34:23
  need it.
• 34:24
  But yeah,
• 34:25
  when
• 34:25
  someone
• 34:25
  SAT
• 34:26
  reading
• 34:26
  from a
• 34:27
  script,
• 34:27
  kind of
• 34:27
  like this.
• 34:28
  Now I've
• 34:28
  got stuff
• 34:29
  in front
• 34:29
  of me, but
• 34:30
  I'm not
• 34:31
  word for
• 34:31
  word you.
• 34:32
  It's kind
• 34:32
  of makes
• 34:33
  me feel
• 34:33
  good,
• 34:33
  yeah,
• 34:33
  sure, but
• 34:34
  yeah, I
• 34:35
  see a
• 34:35
  point and
• 34:37
  what, what
• 34:38
  are some
• 34:38
  of the
• 34:38
  common
• 34:38
  challenges
• 34:39
  then that
• 34:39
  first time
• 34:40
  sales
• 34:40
  leader
• 34:41
  face
• 34:41
  depends
• 34:42
  Unknown: on
• 34:42
  the
• 34:42
  situation.
• 34:43
  I was
• 34:43
  working
• 34:43
  with
• 34:44
  somebody
• 34:44
  recently
• 34:45
  who moved
• 34:46
  into a
• 34:47
  leadership
• 34:47
  role where
• 34:49
  it was his
• 34:50
  peers that
• 34:51
  he was he
• 34:52
  was
• 34:52
  working
• 34:52
  with, and
• 34:54
  we're
• 34:54
  going
• 34:54
  through
• 34:55
  some
• 34:57
  conversations
• 34:58
  and
• 34:58
  exploring
• 34:59
  some ways.
• 35:00
  Of of
• 35:01
  working
• 35:01
  that out,
• 35:02
  because
• 35:03
  one
• 35:03
  minute,
• 35:04
  he's one
• 35:05
  of the
• 35:05
  boys and
• 35:05
  one of the
• 35:06
  gang and
• 35:06
  having
• 35:07
  some fun
• 35:07
  and
• 35:07
  whatever.
• 35:08
  Now, you
• 35:09
  know, now
• 35:09
  he's the
• 35:09
  boss. And
• 35:10
  actually,
• 35:11
  first time
• 35:11
  we went to
• 35:11
  he said,
• 35:12
  Well,
• 35:12
  you're not
• 35:12
  the boss.
• 35:13
  You've now
• 35:13
  just got a
• 35:14
  different
• 35:14
  job. But
• 35:15
  the I
• 35:16
  think it's
• 35:16
  whether
• 35:17
  you're
• 35:17
  inheriting
• 35:18
  a team,
• 35:18
  whether
• 35:19
  you're
• 35:19
  growing a
• 35:19
  team,
• 35:20
  whether
• 35:20
  you you've
• 35:21
  moved into
• 35:21
  a role in
• 35:22
  a
• 35:22
  different
• 35:22
  organization,
• 35:24
  there is a
• 35:24
  situational
• 35:25
  thing. So
• 35:27
  Mark Ackers: happy
• 35:28
  to talk
• 35:28
  about any
• 35:28
  of those,
• 35:29
  but I
• 35:29
  think
• 35:29
  they've
• 35:29
  all,
• 35:30
  they're
• 35:30
  all very
• 35:30
  different,
• 35:31
  yeah? So I
• 35:31
  was just
• 35:32
  thinking,
• 35:32
  we
• 35:32
  recently
• 35:33
  had Carly
• 35:34
  pledge on,
• 35:34
  right? And
• 35:35
  she spoke
• 35:35
  about
• 35:36
  inheriting
• 35:36
  a team,
• 35:37
  yeah,
• 35:37
  okay. And
• 35:38
  the
• 35:38
  reality
• 35:38
  is, when
• 35:39
  you take a
• 35:39
  first time
• 35:40
  manager
• 35:40
  role. It's
• 35:41
  normally
• 35:41
  one of the
• 35:41
  other you
• 35:42
  either
• 35:42
  inherit a
• 35:42
  team
• 35:43
  because
• 35:43
  you've not
• 35:43
  been
• 35:43
  promoted
• 35:44
  internally,
• 35:44
  yeah,
• 35:45
  you've
• 35:45
  gone and
• 35:45
  taken the
• 35:46
  first time
• 35:46
  manager
• 35:46
  job
• 35:47
  somewhere
• 35:47
  else, and
• 35:47
  the team
• 35:48
  exists.
• 35:48
  Obviously,
• 35:49
  it could
• 35:49
  be you're
• 35:49
  the first
• 35:50
  higher
• 35:50
  boots in
• 35:50
  the ground
• 35:51
  or that.
• 35:51
  But
• 35:51
  typically
• 35:51
  inherited,
• 35:52
  or you go
• 35:54
  from being
• 35:55
  one of the
• 35:55
  team to
• 35:56
  managing
• 35:57
  the team.
• 35:58
  Let's talk
• 35:58
  about
• 35:59
  that,
• 35:59
  because
• 35:59
  that is, I
• 36:00
  would say,
• 36:01
  probably
• 36:01
  more
• 36:01
  common,
• 36:02
  because
• 36:02
  top
• 36:02
  performer
• 36:03
  gets
• 36:03
  promoted
• 36:03
  internally,
• 36:04
  so don't
• 36:04
  lose them.
• 36:06
  I've
• 36:06
  experienced
• 36:07
  this going
• 36:08
  from being
• 36:09
  one of the
• 36:09
  group,
• 36:10
  yeah, to
• 36:11
  managing
• 36:11
  the group.
• 36:12
  And I've
• 36:13
  had my own
• 36:13
  difficulties
• 36:14
  there,
• 36:14
  where I
• 36:15
  felt like
• 36:15
  all of a
• 36:16
  sudden, I
• 36:17
  shouldn't
• 36:18
  stay out
• 36:19
  for those
• 36:19
  beings. I
• 36:19
  should go
• 36:20
  home and
• 36:21
  let the
• 36:21
  team have
• 36:22
  their fun.
• 36:23
  I've
• 36:24
  realized
• 36:24
  there's
• 36:24
  Slack
• 36:25
  channels
• 36:25
  that I'm
• 36:26
  no longer
• 36:26
  invited to
• 36:27
  and but
• 36:28
  talk to
• 36:28
  me. What's
• 36:29
  that like
• 36:30
  when you
• 36:31
  go from
• 36:31
  being the
• 36:32
  IC to the
• 36:34
  manager of
• 36:34
  that team?
• 36:35
  And what
• 36:36
  can
• 36:36
  managers
• 36:37
  expect?
• 36:37
  Before I
• 36:38
  answer
• 36:38
  that, I'm
• 36:38
  intrigued.
• 36:39
  Why? Why
• 36:39
  did you
• 36:40
  feel like
• 36:40
  you
• 36:40
  couldn't
• 36:40
  go out for
• 36:41
  the beers?
• 36:41
  I've
• 36:42
  changed
• 36:42
  since,
• 36:43
  okay, it
• 36:44
  was, it
• 36:44
  wasn't I
• 36:45
  felt like
• 36:45
  I couldn't
• 36:46
  go out.
• 36:47
  It's I
• 36:47
  felt like
• 36:48
  they
• 36:48
  couldn't
• 36:49
  let their
• 36:49
  hair down
• 36:50
  if I was
• 36:51
  there, and
• 36:52
  I felt
• 36:52
  like if I
• 36:53
  went away,
• 36:54
  that's
• 36:54
  when they
• 36:54
  could
• 36:55
  properly
• 36:55
  just say
• 36:56
  what
• 36:56
  they're
• 36:57
  thinking,
• 36:58
  talk
• 36:58
  amongst
• 36:59
  themselves.
• 36:59
  And I
• 37:00
  don't know
• 37:00
  that that
• 37:00
  was a me
• 37:01
  thing,
• 37:01
  Unknown: but
• 37:02
  they
• 37:02
  didn't see
• 37:02
  you as the
• 37:03
  senior
• 37:03
  credit
• 37:04
  card
• 37:04
  holder for
• 37:04
  the drinks
• 37:06
  they all
• 37:06
  had pleas.
• 37:07
  No, I
• 37:08
  think, I
• 37:09
  think it's
• 37:09
  a really
• 37:09
  important
• 37:10
  question,
• 37:10
  because,
• 37:11
  yeah, your
• 37:12
  role has
• 37:12
  changed
• 37:13
  within
• 37:13
  that group
• 37:14
  dynamic,
• 37:15
  right?
• 37:15
  Yeah, I
• 37:16
  think it's
• 37:17
  also
• 37:17
  similar,
• 37:18
  if people
• 37:19
  can
• 37:19
  reference
• 37:20
  it to you
• 37:22
  know, you
• 37:22
  becoming
• 37:23
  the
• 37:23
  captain of
• 37:24
  the team
• 37:24
  when you
• 37:26
  when you
• 37:27
  have that
• 37:27
  opportunity,
• 37:28
  and you
• 37:28
  against
• 37:28
  the
• 37:28
  players.
• 37:29
  So there's
• 37:29
  you're
• 37:30
  still,
• 37:30
  you're
• 37:31
  still
• 37:31
  playing in
• 37:31
  the team,
• 37:32
  but now
• 37:32
  you're the
• 37:32
  captain
• 37:33
  you might
• 37:33
  make in
• 37:33
  some of
• 37:34
  the
• 37:34
  decisions.
• 37:35
  So I think
• 37:36
  I mean, if
• 37:36
  you
• 37:37
  inherit,
• 37:37
  if you're
• 37:37
  moving
• 37:38
  into that
• 37:38
  role,
• 37:39
  rather
• 37:40
  than
• 37:40
  inheriting
• 37:41
  your your
• 37:42
  you know
• 37:43
  your team.
• 37:44
  You know
• 37:44
  the
• 37:44
  individuals,
• 37:45
  because
• 37:45
  you've
• 37:46
  been
• 37:46
  working
• 37:46
  with them
• 37:47
  quite a
• 37:47
  while,
• 37:48
  quite a
• 37:49
  for, quite
• 37:49
  a while
• 37:49
  already.
• 37:50
  So you'll,
• 37:52
  you'll
• 37:52
  have a
• 37:52
  good
• 37:53
  understanding
• 37:53
  them. So
• 37:54
  if you
• 37:54
  inherit,
• 37:55
  and I'd
• 37:55
  say that
• 37:55
  you just
• 37:56
  don't do a
• 37:56
  lot for a
• 37:57
  little
• 37:57
  while, you
• 37:57
  just watch
• 37:58
  and think,
• 37:58
  I think
• 37:59
  that's
• 37:59
  what Kylie
• 38:00
  said about
• 38:01
  it as
• 38:01
  well,
• 38:01
  right? Oh,
• 38:02
  you're a
• 38:02
  listener
• 38:02
  of the
• 38:02
  podcast. I
• 38:03
  do, yeah,
• 38:03
  what's
• 38:04
  your
• 38:04
  favorite
• 38:04
  episode?
• 38:05
  The worst
• 38:05
  sales,
• 38:06
  worst UK
• 38:06
  sex,
• 38:07
  what's his
• 38:08
  worst?
• 38:08
  He's the
• 38:08
  most
• 38:08
  hated.
• 38:09
  Hated
• 38:09
  that's
• 38:09
  that's
• 38:10
  quite
• 38:10
  different.
• 38:10
  Oh, I've
• 38:11
  got, I'm
• 38:11
  sorry, the
• 38:12
  most
• 38:13
  hated. So
• 38:13
  it was
• 38:14
  Benjamin,
• 38:15
  yeah, he'd
• 38:15
  have a
• 38:15
  very
• 38:15
  different
• 38:16
  business
• 38:16
  if he was
• 38:16
  a label
• 38:17
  himself.
• 38:17
  Was the
• 38:18
  worst.
• 38:18
  Yeah,
• 38:18
  don't
• 38:19
  label
• 38:19
  yourself
• 38:19
  as that,
• 38:21
  Benjamin.
• 38:21
  That's got
• 38:22
  me, that's
• 38:22
  got me in
• 38:23
  a whole
• 38:23
  heap of
• 38:23
  trouble.
• 38:25
  Mark Ackers: Probably
• 38:26
  not, but
• 38:26
  sorry, I
• 38:27
  I've
• 38:27
  massively
• 38:28
  taken you
• 38:28
  off track
• 38:28
  there. So
• 38:29
  you said
• 38:30
  Carly
• 38:31
  recently
• 38:31
  spoke
• 38:31
  about
• 38:32
  inheritance.
• 38:32
  You're
• 38:32
  right. She
• 38:33
  did. Yeah,
• 38:33
  Unknown: so
• 38:34
  and, and
• 38:35
  that is a
• 38:36
  situation
• 38:36
  where you
• 38:37
  don't do
• 38:37
  anything
• 38:37
  for a
• 38:37
  while. You
• 38:38
  really
• 38:38
  want to
• 38:38
  understand
• 38:39
  something,
• 38:40
  but if
• 38:40
  you're
• 38:41
  becoming
• 38:41
  that
• 38:42
  leader of
• 38:42
  that team,
• 38:43
  you
• 38:43
  probably
• 38:44
  know
• 38:44
  people's
• 38:45
  situations,
• 38:46
  and I
• 38:46
  think that
• 38:47
  that's
• 38:47
  when you
• 38:50
  you know
• 38:51
  where
• 38:51
  people are
• 38:52
  likely to
• 38:53
  be good,
• 38:55
  lacking,
• 38:56
  need,
• 38:57
  support,
• 38:57
  whatever,
• 38:58
  because
• 38:58
  you've
• 38:58
  observed
• 38:59
  it, your
• 38:59
  your
• 39:00
  yourself.
• 39:01
  And I
• 39:01
  think the
• 39:02
  the key
• 39:02
  thing for
• 39:02
  me, when
• 39:03
  that's
• 39:03
  happened
• 39:04
  to it's
• 39:04
  only
• 39:04
  happened
• 39:05
  to me
• 39:05
  once,
• 39:05
  actually,
• 39:06
  because
• 39:06
  I've
• 39:06
  moved, but
• 39:08
  I've made
• 39:10
  sure that
• 39:10
  I had
• 39:11
  permission
• 39:11
  to help
• 39:12
  people in
• 39:12
  certain
• 39:13
  ways. So
• 39:15
  let me,
• 39:15
  let me
• 39:16
  unpack or
• 39:16
  explain
• 39:17
  that a
• 39:17
  little
• 39:17
  bit. So
• 39:18
  rather
• 39:19
  than
• 39:20
  jumping in
• 39:20
  with your
• 39:21
  your
• 39:22
  ideas,
• 39:22
  because
• 39:23
  you've
• 39:23
  seen
• 39:23
  something
• 39:24
  that you
• 39:26
  know could
• 39:26
  be fixed
• 39:27
  in a
• 39:27
  certain
• 39:27
  way, you
• 39:29
  really
• 39:29
  gotta dig
• 39:31
  into, or
• 39:32
  lean into
• 39:32
  your your
• 39:33
  your
• 39:33
  coaching
• 39:34
  mindset
• 39:35
  about how
• 39:35
  to do
• 39:36
  that, so
• 39:37
  you don't
• 39:38
  go and try
• 39:38
  and fix
• 39:39
  people.
• 39:39
  And I it's
• 39:40
  one thing
• 39:40
  I've
• 39:40
  always
• 39:41
  I've
• 39:41
  struggled
• 39:42
  with a
• 39:42
  lot, I
• 39:42
  still
• 39:43
  struggle
• 39:43
  with it
• 39:43
  now, is
• 39:44
  that I
• 39:45
  want to
• 39:45
  try
• 39:45
  personally.
• 39:46
  I want to
• 39:46
  try and
• 39:46
  fix and
• 39:47
  help and
• 39:48
  do the
• 39:48
  thing,
• 39:49
  rather
• 39:50
  than coach
• 39:51
  and advise
• 39:52
  the whole,
• 39:52
  sort of
• 39:53
  teach a
• 39:53
  man a fish
• 39:54
  and
• 39:55
  feeding
• 39:55
  man a
• 39:55
  fish,
• 39:56
  right? And
• 39:57
  I think
• 39:57
  that's,
• 39:57
  that's the
• 39:59
  that's
• 39:59
  the. Key
• 40:00
  to be able
• 40:01
  to do a
• 40:01
  great job
• 40:02
  with the
• 40:02
  people
• 40:02
  you're
• 40:02
  already
• 40:03
  working
• 40:03
  with.
• 40:03
  Mark Ackers: Let's
• 40:04
  talk about
• 40:05
  when you
• 40:06
  start
• 40:06
  leading a
• 40:06
  team. You
• 40:07
  mentioned
• 40:07
  it earlier
• 40:08
  when I
• 40:08
  asked it.
• 40:09
  Yeah, you
• 40:09
  could do
• 40:10
  that role
• 40:10
  being crap
• 40:11
  at sales.
• 40:12
  You
• 40:13
  mentioned
• 40:13
  the word
• 40:13
  trust and
• 40:14
  credibility.
• 40:15
  Yeah, I
• 40:16
  would
• 40:16
  argue,
• 40:17
  regardless,
• 40:18
  you've got
• 40:18
  to build
• 40:18
  that trust
• 40:19
  and
• 40:19
  credibility.
• 40:20
  How do you
• 40:20
  do that?
• 40:21
  Walk
• 40:21
  Unknown: the
• 40:21
  Talk. Do
• 40:23
  what you
• 40:25
  do, what
• 40:25
  you say
• 40:25
  you're
• 40:26
  going to
• 40:26
  do. You've
• 40:26
  got to be
• 40:27
  real. You
• 40:28
  can't I
• 40:29
  think I've
• 40:29
  seen this
• 40:31
  work badly
• 40:33
  for people
• 40:33
  when
• 40:34
  they've
• 40:35
  not been
• 40:37
  true to
• 40:37
  the way,
• 40:38
  true to
• 40:39
  themselves,
• 40:39
  the way
• 40:39
  they want
• 40:40
  things to
• 40:40
  run so
• 40:41
  you've got
• 40:42
  you've got
• 40:42
  to act
• 40:43
  like you
• 40:43
  want other
• 40:44
  people to
• 40:44
  behave,
• 40:45
  and you've
• 40:46
  got to act
• 40:46
  how you
• 40:47
  want other
• 40:47
  people to
• 40:48
  engage.
• 40:51
  And a big
• 40:52
  part of
• 40:52
  that is,
• 40:53
  is the
• 40:54
  communication
• 40:55
  and
• 40:55
  getting
• 40:55
  feedback
• 40:56
  and
• 40:56
  getting
• 40:56
  people
• 40:56
  talking
• 40:57
  all the
• 40:57
  time and
• 40:58
  making
• 40:58
  sure that
• 41:00
  we all
• 41:01
  understand
• 41:02
  each
• 41:02
  other. And
• 41:04
  I would, I
• 41:05
  would
• 41:05
  really
• 41:05
  work on
• 41:07
  the
• 41:08
  interactions
• 41:08
  amongst
• 41:09
  the
• 41:09
  amongst
• 41:09
  the team
• 41:10
  themselves
• 41:10
  as well.
• 41:11
  So it's
• 41:11
  not just
• 41:12
  my
• 41:13
  relationship
• 41:13
  with them,
• 41:13
  it's their
• 41:14
  relationship
• 41:15
  with me,
• 41:15
  but it's
• 41:15
  their
• 41:15
  relationships
• 41:16
  with each
• 41:17
  other as
• 41:17
  well. So
• 41:17
  you're
• 41:18
  trying to
• 41:18
  pull that
• 41:19
  together
• 41:19
  in one go.
• 41:20
  How do you
• 41:21
  do that? I
• 41:21
  think it's
• 41:22
  just, you
• 41:22
  know,
• 41:23
  making it
• 41:23
  a non
• 41:25
  threatening,
• 41:27
  supportive.
• 41:27
  This
• 41:28
  sounds a
• 41:28
  bit I'm
• 41:28
  going to
• 41:29
  go on a
• 41:29
  woke
• 41:29
  stream
• 41:30
  here, but
• 41:30
  in
• 41:31
  inclusive
• 41:31
  environment.
• 41:32
  But
• 41:32
  they're
• 41:32
  generally,
• 41:33
  and that's
• 41:33
  good way
• 41:34
  of
• 41:34
  describing
• 41:34
  now, is,
• 41:35
  is,
• 41:35
  there's,
• 41:36
  you know,
• 41:37
  there
• 41:37
  isn't any
• 41:38
  wrong
• 41:38
  answers,
• 41:39
  there
• 41:39
  isn't any
• 41:40
  stupid
• 41:41
  questions.
• 41:42
  There
• 41:42
  isn't
• 41:42
  anything
• 41:43
  that
• 41:43
  people
• 41:43
  can't do
• 41:44
  and just
• 41:44
  make
• 41:44
  people
• 41:45
  feel
• 41:45
  comfortable
• 41:46
  that they
• 41:47
  can openly
• 41:48
  discuss
• 41:48
  and bring
• 41:49
  things
• 41:50
  without
• 41:51
  any sort
• 41:51
  of fear of
• 41:53
  failure.
• 41:54
  Mark Ackers: I
• 41:54
  think,
• 41:54
  like you
• 41:54
  say,
• 41:55
  walking
• 41:56
  the walk
• 41:56
  is kind of
• 41:57
  you, if
• 41:57
  you
• 41:57
  demonstrate
• 41:58
  that
• 41:58
  yourself,
• 41:59
  you can
• 42:00
  enable
• 42:00
  that. And
• 42:02
  what about
• 42:03
  a sales
• 42:03
  manager
• 42:04
  that's
• 42:05
  lost that
• 42:05
  trust with
• 42:06
  the team
• 42:06
  and
• 42:06
  credibility?
• 42:07
  Can we get
• 42:07
  it back?
• 42:08
  Very
• 42:09
  Unknown: difficult.
• 42:09
  I think
• 42:10
  actually,
• 42:11
  if I'm if
• 42:11
  I'm going
• 42:12
  to be
• 42:12
  bluntly
• 42:12
  honest
• 42:13
  with you,
• 42:14
  depends on
• 42:15
  the
• 42:16
  specific
• 42:17
  situation
• 42:18
  and what
• 42:18
  trust was
• 42:19
  was lost.
• 42:22
  But yes,
• 42:23
  as we
• 42:24
  probably
• 42:24
  all know,
• 42:25
  trust
• 42:26
  takes a
• 42:26
  long time
• 42:27
  to build,
• 42:27
  and can be
• 42:28
  broken in
• 42:28
  a second.
• 42:29
  So yeah,
• 42:30
  that's,
• 42:31
  that's a
• 42:31
  that's a
• 42:32
  tough one.
• 42:32
  I mean, if
• 42:34
  we're in
• 42:34
  that
• 42:34
  position,
• 42:35
  I think,
• 42:36
  again,
• 42:37
  depending
• 42:37
  on what it
• 42:38
  is, you've
• 42:39
  got to
• 42:39
  have an
• 42:41
  ability to
• 42:43
  own it and
• 42:44
  be honest
• 42:45
  and front
• 42:45
  it up and
• 42:47
  and show
• 42:48
  your own
• 42:48
  humility
• 42:49
  and the
• 42:49
  mistake or
• 42:50
  whatever
• 42:51
  that you
• 42:51
  made, then
• 42:53
  you have a
• 42:53
  chance.
• 42:54
  Yeah. Have
• 42:55
  you ever
• 42:55
  seen that
• 42:55
  happen
• 42:56
  before,
• 42:56
  where a
• 42:56
  sales
• 42:56
  manager
• 42:57
  has just
• 42:58
  lost a
• 42:58
  team?
• 42:59
  Yeah,
• 42:59
  unfortunately,
• 43:00
  yeah.
• 43:01
  Could it
• 43:01
  have been
• 43:01
  resolved,
• 43:02
  or did it
• 43:02
  not work
• 43:03
  out? Could
• 43:03
  it have
• 43:04
  been
• 43:04
  resolved?
• 43:04
  That's a
• 43:05
  really
• 43:05
  good
• 43:05
  question
• 43:06
  I'm
• 43:06
  thinking
• 43:06
  about, I
• 43:06
  obviously
• 43:07
  have to
• 43:07
  keep Yeah,
• 43:09
  no, I
• 43:09
  don't
• 43:09
  think it
• 43:10
  could. It
• 43:10
  could have
• 43:10
  been it
• 43:11
  was a
• 43:11
  particular
• 43:12
  situation
• 43:12
  where
• 43:13
  mistakes
• 43:14
  were made,
• 43:14
  which were
• 43:16
  kind of
• 43:17
  against a
• 43:18
  lot of
• 43:19
  ethical
• 43:20
  stuff in
• 43:21
  in a in
• 43:22
  the
• 43:23
  business,
• 43:23
  in the
• 43:23
  company,
• 43:24
  and you
• 43:25
  break
• 43:26
  that,
• 43:26
  that's
• 43:26
  kind of
• 43:27
  that's a
• 43:27
  tough one
• 43:28
  to that's
• 43:29
  tough one
• 43:29
  to break.
• 43:30
  Let's talk
• 43:30
  about
• 43:31
  leaving
• 43:31
  diverse
• 43:32
  teams
• 43:32
  then. So
• 43:34
  you've
• 43:34
  built
• 43:34
  teams that
• 43:35
  include
• 43:35
  account
• 43:35
  managers,
• 43:36
  new
• 43:37
  business
• 43:37
  sales, pre
• 43:38
  sales,
• 43:38
  consulting.
• 43:40
  Mark Ackers: How
• 43:41
  do you
• 43:41
  unify a
• 43:42
  diverse
• 43:43
  team with
• 43:44
  different
• 43:45
  roles and
• 43:45
  objectives
• 43:46
  under one
• 43:46
  vision?
• 43:47
  It's one
• 43:48
  Unknown: of
• 43:48
  my, one of
• 43:48
  my
• 43:48
  favorite
• 43:49
  topics. So
• 43:50
  thank you
• 43:50
  for
• 43:50
  bringing
• 43:50
  that up.
• 43:52
  We had at
• 43:54
  fair sale,
• 43:55
  which you
• 43:55
  mentioned,
• 43:56
  was the
• 43:56
  company
• 43:57
  that we we
• 43:58
  sold on to
• 43:59
  Sage when
• 44:02
  we were
• 44:02
  growing
• 44:02
  that as a
• 44:05
  as a scale
• 44:05
  up
• 44:06
  business,
• 44:07
  we had
• 44:07
  this
• 44:09
  methodology,
• 44:10
  if you
• 44:10
  like. It
• 44:11
  wasn't
• 44:11
  mine, but
• 44:12
  the exact
• 44:13
  kind of we
• 44:13
  kind of
• 44:14
  came up
• 44:14
  with this
• 44:14
  idea of,
• 44:15
  of working
• 44:16
  in in in
• 44:17
  pods, and
• 44:19
  I think
• 44:20
  it's a
• 44:20
  concept
• 44:20
  that now
• 44:21
  is
• 44:21
  actually
• 44:22
  out there.
• 44:22
  I don't
• 44:23
  know, I
• 44:23
  don't know
• 44:23
  sure
• 44:23
  whether we
• 44:24
  come up
• 44:24
  with it or
• 44:24
  whatever,
• 44:25
  but it was
• 44:27
  putting
• 44:27
  together,
• 44:28
  you know,
• 44:28
  the AES,
• 44:29
  the
• 44:29
  solution
• 44:30
  consultants,
• 44:30
  the the
• 44:33
  SDRs,
• 44:35
  maybe even
• 44:36
  the, you
• 44:37
  know, the
• 44:37
  customer
• 44:37
  success
• 44:38
  team,
• 44:38
  which will
• 44:38
  come in
• 44:39
  afterwards
• 44:39
  or
• 44:40
  whatever,
• 44:40
  and get
• 44:40
  them
• 44:41
  working
• 44:42
  together
• 44:42
  as a unit
• 44:43
  throughout
• 44:44
  the sales
• 44:44
  cycle. So
• 44:46
  they were
• 44:47
  threaded
• 44:47
  all the
• 44:47
  way all
• 44:48
  the way
• 44:48
  through,
• 44:49
  and the
• 44:50
  pods would
• 44:51
  would work
• 44:52
  in
• 44:52
  particular
• 44:54
  areas. So
• 44:56
  maybe
• 44:56
  there's
• 44:57
  maybe they
• 44:57
  work in
• 44:58
  the
• 44:59
  finance.
• 45:00
  Vertical,
• 45:00
  or a
• 45:00
  certain
• 45:01
  regional,
• 45:01
  vertical,
• 45:02
  or
• 45:02
  whatever
• 45:03
  it would
• 45:03
  be. And it
• 45:05
  was
• 45:05
  really,
• 45:06
  really
• 45:06
  strong,
• 45:06
  because
• 45:08
  they kind
• 45:09
  of bounced
• 45:09
  off each
• 45:09
  other and
• 45:12
  built a
• 45:12
  lot of
• 45:12
  camaraderie
• 45:13
  amongst
• 45:15
  the team
• 45:15
  itself,
• 45:16
  and they
• 45:16
  acted like
• 45:17
  a little
• 45:18
  pod team,
• 45:19
  rather
• 45:19
  than sales
• 45:22
  being
• 45:22
  here, pre
• 45:23
  sales
• 45:23
  being
• 45:23
  there,
• 45:23
  SDRs being
• 45:24
  here,
• 45:25
  marketing
• 45:25
  being
• 45:25
  there. So
• 45:26
  it was
• 45:27
  kind of
• 45:28
  Mark Ackers: they
• 45:28
  were
• 45:29
  working
• 45:29
  together
• 45:29
  as a
• 45:30
  collective.
• 45:30
  And I
• 45:31
  think
• 45:31
  that's a
• 45:31
  really
• 45:32
  strong way
• 45:33
  of
• 45:33
  actually
• 45:33
  going
• 45:34
  going to
• 45:34
  market out
• 45:35
  there.
• 45:36
  I've
• 45:36
  experienced
• 45:37
  that
• 45:37
  myself,
• 45:37
  actually,
• 45:38
  although I
• 45:38
  was
• 45:38
  working
• 45:38
  for an
• 45:39
  American
• 45:39
  company at
• 45:40
  the time,
• 45:40
  and they
• 45:41
  were
• 45:41
  called
• 45:41
  airplanes,
• 45:42
  and
• 45:42
  airplanes,
• 45:43
  yeah, so
• 45:44
  we had the
• 45:44
  SDR, was
• 45:45
  the
• 45:45
  gunner,
• 45:45
  Oh, I see
• 45:46
  okay. I
• 45:47
  was the
• 45:48
  senior AE,
• 45:49
  so I was
• 45:49
  the pilot.
• 45:50
  I had a
• 45:51
  junior AE,
• 45:51
  that was
• 45:52
  the co
• 45:52
  pilot. And
• 45:53
  then we
• 45:53
  had CS.
• 45:54
  That was
• 45:54
  kind of
• 45:55
  more this,
• 45:55
  because
• 45:55
  that makes
• 45:56
  CS sound
• 45:56
  terrible,
• 45:57
  but like
• 45:57
  Stuart in
• 45:58
  terms of
• 45:58
  making
• 45:59
  sure
• 45:59
  everyone's
• 45:59
  comfortable
• 46:00
  and happy,
• 46:00
  etc, yeah,
• 46:02
  chicken or
• 46:03
  beef
• 46:04
  appreciate
• 46:04
  they won't
• 46:05
  like that.
• 46:05
  But on the
• 46:06
  whole,
• 46:06
  that
• 46:06
  worked
• 46:06
  really
• 46:06
  well
• 46:07
  because we
• 46:07
  then went
• 46:07
  after
• 46:08
  different
• 46:08
  verticals,
• 46:09
  different
• 46:09
  market
• 46:09
  sizes,
• 46:10
  yeah. The
• 46:10
  worst part
• 46:11
  about all
• 46:11
  of it was
• 46:12
  all the
• 46:13
  names that
• 46:13
  were given
• 46:13
  to the
• 46:14
  airplanes.
• 46:14
  It was,
• 46:15
  Unknown: it
• 46:15
  was very,
• 46:15
  I can
• 46:15
  imagine,
• 46:16
  yeah, they
• 46:17
  went right
• 46:17
  with this
• 46:18
  that,
• 46:18
  yeah,
• 46:19
  Mark Ackers: we'll,
• 46:19
  we'll move
• 46:20
  on. But in
• 46:21
  terms of
• 46:21
  so that's
• 46:22
  diverse,
• 46:22
  in terms
• 46:23
  of
• 46:23
  different
• 46:23
  skills and
• 46:24
  roles,
• 46:25
  yeah,
• 46:25
  let's talk
• 46:26
  about
• 46:26
  having
• 46:27
  diverse
• 46:27
  people in
• 46:27
  the team
• 46:28
  then. So
• 46:29
  one of the
• 46:30
  one of the
• 46:30
  things
• 46:30
  that I see
• 46:31
  managers
• 46:31
  do is
• 46:32
  hiring
• 46:32
  their own
• 46:33
  image.
• 46:33
  It's easy,
• 46:35
  yeah, as I
• 46:35
  said
• 46:35
  earlier,
• 46:35
  interviewing
• 46:36
  someone,
• 46:36
  and you
• 46:37
  think we
• 46:38
  get on
• 46:38
  with very
• 46:38
  similar,
• 46:39
  similar
• 46:39
  tastes. I
• 46:40
  know this
• 46:40
  person
• 46:41
  works, a
• 46:42
  lot of
• 46:42
  people
• 46:43
  would
• 46:43
  think
• 46:43
  that's
• 46:44
  obviously
• 46:44
  the easy
• 46:45
  thing to
• 46:45
  do. Hire
• 46:46
  people
• 46:46
  that you
• 46:46
  know how
• 46:47
  they work
• 46:48
  and ticks
• 46:48
  are just
• 46:49
  like you,
• 46:49
  yeah, but
• 46:50
  you're
• 46:50
  saying
• 46:50
  you've
• 46:51
  done that,
• 46:51
  and that
• 46:51
  was a
• 46:52
  mistake.
• 46:52
  Tell us
• 46:52
  more about
• 46:53
  that.
• 46:53
  Unknown: I
• 46:53
  can't
• 46:54
  really it
• 46:54
  was a NLP
• 46:55
  thing,
• 46:55
  wasn't it?
• 46:56
  That whole
• 46:57
  mirroring
• 46:57
  thing? You
• 46:58
  know, that
• 46:58
  was a big
• 46:59
  thing. And
• 47:01
  for
• 47:01
  rapport
• 47:01
  building.
• 47:02
  And I
• 47:03
  remember
• 47:04
  even once,
• 47:06
  somebody
• 47:07
  pointed
• 47:07
  out to me
• 47:08
  that there
• 47:10
  was me and
• 47:10
  a couple
• 47:10
  of the
• 47:11
  guys in
• 47:12
  that had
• 47:13
  control
• 47:13
  work, that
• 47:13
  had
• 47:15
  responsibility
• 47:15
  for a
• 47:16
  couple of
• 47:16
  teams, and
• 47:17
  we're all
• 47:17
  in brass
• 47:19
  shoes,
• 47:20
  brown
• 47:20
  chinos,
• 47:21
  little
• 47:21
  gilay
• 47:21
  jacket,
• 47:22
  just like,
• 47:24
  Oh, my,
• 47:24
  what have
• 47:24
  I done?
• 47:26
  So, but so
• 47:27
  why is it
• 47:28
  wrong?
• 47:31
  Because
• 47:32
  you're not
• 47:33
  going to
• 47:33
  see things
• 47:34
  through a
• 47:34
  different
• 47:35
  lens or a
• 47:35
  different
• 47:36
  perspective.
• 47:37
  You're not
• 47:37
  going to
• 47:38
  see you're
• 47:38
  not going
• 47:39
  to see
• 47:39
  things in
• 47:40
  a
• 47:40
  completely
• 47:40
  different
• 47:41
  way. And
• 47:41
  it never
• 47:42
  ceases to
• 47:43
  surprise
• 47:44
  or amaze
• 47:44
  me, the
• 47:46
  things I
• 47:46
  miss
• 47:46
  because of
• 47:47
  my own
• 47:49
  sort of
• 47:50
  myopic
• 47:50
  vision on
• 47:51
  something
• 47:52
  you know,
• 47:52
  or you
• 47:54
  know. I
• 47:55
  mean, the
• 47:55
  whole sort
• 47:57
  of
• 47:57
  discussion
• 47:58
  nowadays
• 47:58
  is all
• 47:59
  around
• 47:59
  your your
• 48:00
  biases,
• 48:01
  and I've
• 48:03
  I've
• 48:03
  looked and
• 48:04
  and I've
• 48:04
  been aware
• 48:05
  of this
• 48:05
  myself,
• 48:05
  and I try
• 48:06
  to sort of
• 48:07
  take note
• 48:08
  of it. I
• 48:08
  think you,
• 48:09
  you, we
• 48:10
  all have
• 48:11
  unconscious
• 48:12
  bias,
• 48:13
  which we
• 48:14
  can't
• 48:15
  help, and
• 48:15
  you just
• 48:16
  have to
• 48:16
  recognize
• 48:17
  that you
• 48:17
  can't help
• 48:18
  your
• 48:18
  unconscious
• 48:18
  bias. But
• 48:19
  if you're
• 48:19
  aware of
• 48:21
  your
• 48:21
  unconscious
• 48:22
  bias, then
• 48:22
  you can do
• 48:23
  something
• 48:23
  about it.
• 48:24
  And yeah,
• 48:25
  the way
• 48:25
  somebody
• 48:26
  looks, the
• 48:26
  way
• 48:26
  somebody
• 48:27
  talks, the
• 48:27
  way
• 48:27
  somebody
• 48:28
  acts,
• 48:29
  their
• 48:30
  their and,
• 48:31
  yeah, I'll
• 48:31
  mention it
• 48:32
  out here,
• 48:32
  their
• 48:32
  their age,
• 48:33
  their
• 48:33
  gender. It
• 48:34
  all comes
• 48:35
  into it,
• 48:36
  but if
• 48:36
  you're
• 48:36
  aware of
• 48:37
  it, then
• 48:37
  you can
• 48:38
  actually
• 48:38
  do
• 48:38
  something
• 48:39
  about it.
• 48:40
  And you
• 48:41
  know, be
• 48:42
  positive
• 48:42
  and
• 48:43
  reactive
• 48:43
  in the
• 48:43
  right way.
• 48:44
  Most
• 48:44
  Mark Ackers: organizations
• 48:45
  equip
• 48:45
  their
• 48:46
  sellers
• 48:46
  with all
• 48:47
  the
• 48:47
  technology
• 48:47
  they need
• 48:48
  to be
• 48:48
  successful.
• 48:49
  Technology
• 48:50
  that
• 48:50
  trebles
• 48:50
  the amount
• 48:51
  of emails
• 48:51
  they can
• 48:51
  send,
• 48:52
  quadruples
• 48:53
  the amount
• 48:53
  of dials
• 48:54
  they can
• 48:54
  make,
• 48:55
  technology
• 48:56
  that
• 48:56
  enables
• 48:56
  you to see
• 48:57
  accounts
• 48:57
  that you
• 48:57
  should
• 48:58
  prospect
• 48:58
  into phone
• 48:59
  numbers at
• 49:00
  your
• 49:00
  fingertips
• 49:01
  technology
• 49:02
  to make a
• 49:02
  sales rep
• 49:03
  more
• 49:03
  efficient
• 49:04
  with their
• 49:04
  time.
• 49:05
  Here's the
• 49:05
  missing
• 49:06
  piece,
• 49:06
  actually
• 49:07
  making
• 49:07
  your
• 49:07
  sellers
• 49:08
  better at
• 49:09
  selling
• 49:09
  better at
• 49:10
  their
• 49:10
  profession.
• 49:11
  That's the
• 49:11
  missing
• 49:11
  piece. All
• 49:12
  this
• 49:12
  technology
• 49:13
  is really
• 49:14
  helpful in
• 49:14
  speeding a
• 49:15
  rep up,
• 49:16
  but none
• 49:16
  of it
• 49:17
  actually
• 49:17
  helps the
• 49:17
  seller get
• 49:18
  better at
• 49:19
  their
• 49:19
  profession.
• 49:19
  That's
• 49:20
  what my
• 49:20
  sales
• 49:20
  coach
• 49:21
  does. We
• 49:21
  work with
• 49:22
  the
• 49:22
  individuals
• 49:23
  in your
• 49:23
  team and
• 49:24
  you as
• 49:24
  their
• 49:24
  leader to
• 49:25
  help them
• 49:26
  become the
• 49:26
  best
• 49:27
  versions
• 49:27
  of
• 49:27
  themselves.
• 49:28
  We have
• 49:28
  coaches
• 49:28
  that work
• 49:29
  with
• 49:29
  sellers
• 49:30
  tactically,
• 49:30
  from
• 49:31
  outbounding,
• 49:32
  Discovery
• 49:33
  calls,
• 49:33
  demos,
• 49:34
  negotiation,
• 49:34
  closing,
• 49:35
  you name
• 49:35
  it, and
• 49:36
  mentally
• 49:37
  impostor
• 49:37
  syndrome,
• 49:38
  anxiety,
• 49:39
  stress and
• 49:39
  weight of
• 49:40
  targets,
• 49:40
  our
• 49:41
  coaches
• 49:41
  have been
• 49:42
  there and
• 49:42
  done it
• 49:43
  and had
• 49:43
  success in
• 49:44
  those
• 49:45
  roles. Is
• 49:45
  there a
• 49:46
  way in
• 49:46
  which you
• 49:46
  try to
• 49:47
  build and
• 49:47
  recruit
• 49:48
  teams then
• 49:49
  to make
• 49:49
  sure
• 49:49
  you've got
• 49:50
  that
• 49:50
  different
• 49:50
  perspective
• 49:51
  and
• 49:51
  opinions?
• 49:52
  Unknown: I
• 49:52
  Yeah,
• 49:53
  this. So
• 49:53
  this is a
• 49:53
  controversial
• 49:55
  course,
• 49:56
  yeah, the
• 49:56
  whole sort
• 49:56
  of, do you
• 49:59
  do? Higher
• 50:00
  in a bias
• 50:01
  way for
• 50:03
  maybe
• 50:04
  gender,
• 50:05
  ethnicity
• 50:06
  or
• 50:06
  whatever.
• 50:07
  And I
• 50:08
  don't
• 50:08
  think you
• 50:08
  should, I
• 50:09
  don't
• 50:09
  think you
• 50:09
  should, to
• 50:10
  be honest,
• 50:11
  is this is
• 50:12
  a just a
• 50:12
  my
• 50:13
  personal
• 50:13
  opinion,
• 50:14
  but I
• 50:15
  think you,
• 50:15
  if you're
• 50:15
  aware of
• 50:16
  it, then
• 50:17
  you won't
• 50:18
  make the
• 50:18
  unconscious
• 50:19
  bias
• 50:19
  decisions.
• 50:21
  But you
• 50:21
  should
• 50:21
  always,
• 50:22
  you should
• 50:22
  always
• 50:22
  hire on
• 50:23
  the basis
• 50:23
  of making
• 50:26
  sure
• 50:26
  somebody
• 50:26
  can
• 50:27
  actually
• 50:27
  do the
• 50:28
  job. And I
• 50:29
  think that
• 50:30
  that's
• 50:30
  because if
• 50:31
  you, if
• 50:31
  you don't
• 50:31
  do that,
• 50:32
  then
• 50:32
  that's
• 50:32
  unfair on
• 50:32
  the people
• 50:33
  that
• 50:33
  you've
• 50:33
  been
• 50:34
  consciously
• 50:35
  biased
• 50:36
  with for
• 50:36
  the
• 50:37
  positive
• 50:37
  reason,
• 50:37
  and it
• 50:38
  kind of
• 50:38
  undermines
• 50:38
  the whole
• 50:39
  point of
• 50:40
  view
• 50:40
  anyway, so
• 50:41
  I think
• 50:42
  it's an
• 50:42
  awareness,
• 50:43
  but you
• 50:44
  you have
• 50:45
  to have a
• 50:45
  way of
• 50:47
  understanding
• 50:49
  what you
• 50:50
  actually
• 50:50
  want out
• 50:51
  of the
• 50:53
  individual
• 50:53
  you're
• 50:53
  hiring two
• 50:56
  things
• 50:56
  that I
• 50:59
  Constance
• 50:59
  whether
• 51:00
  You're
• 51:00
  hiring an
• 51:00
  IC or a
• 51:01
  manager or
• 51:01
  whatever,
• 51:03
  are
• 51:05
  curiosity
• 51:06
  and a
• 51:07
  willingness
• 51:07
  to to
• 51:09
  learn and
• 51:11
  but, but
• 51:12
  again,
• 51:12
  those two
• 51:13
  things are
• 51:15
  to use
• 51:16
  your word
• 51:16
  from
• 51:16
  earlier,
• 51:17
  the traits
• 51:17
  that I
• 51:18
  want in
• 51:18
  people.
• 51:19
  But people
• 51:20
  are, are,
• 51:21
  you know,
• 51:21
  learning
• 51:22
  different
• 51:22
  ways. Want
• 51:23
  to learn
• 51:23
  in
• 51:23
  different
• 51:24
  ways, and
• 51:24
  they can
• 51:24
  be curious
• 51:25
  in
• 51:25
  different
• 51:26
  ways, but
• 51:27
  as long as
• 51:27
  somebody
• 51:28
  is a
• 51:28
  curious
• 51:28
  person,
• 51:30
  and once
• 51:31
  they wants
• 51:32
  to
• 51:33
  Mark Ackers: move
• 51:34
  with
• 51:34
  continuous
• 51:35
  learning,
• 51:35
  then I
• 51:36
  don't
• 51:36
  mind,
• 51:36
  actually,
• 51:37
  how they
• 51:37
  do that.
• 51:38
  That's,
• 51:39
  that's the
• 51:39
  method.
• 51:40
  The trait
• 51:40
  is the
• 51:41
  important
• 51:41
  part. So
• 51:42
  as a first
• 51:43
  time
• 51:43
  leader,
• 51:44
  it's no
• 51:44
  different
• 51:44
  to be in
• 51:45
  the nice
• 51:45
  in the
• 51:45
  sense of
• 51:46
  there are
• 51:46
  lots of
• 51:47
  ups and
• 51:47
  downs.
• 51:47
  Right? The
• 51:49
  lows are
• 51:50
  low, the
• 51:51
  highs are
• 51:51
  high.
• 51:52
  Let's talk
• 51:52
  about
• 51:53
  dealing
• 51:53
  with
• 51:53
  failure.
• 51:54
  How should
• 51:55
  first time
• 51:56
  leaders
• 51:56
  handle
• 51:57
  failure,
• 51:58
  not their
• 51:59
  own
• 51:59
  anymore,
• 51:59
  though
• 52:00
  their
• 52:00
  teams. How
• 52:01
  should
• 52:01
  they deal
• 52:02
  with that
• 52:02
  in a way
• 52:03
  that helps
• 52:04
  their
• 52:04
  team?
• 52:05
  Unknown: I
• 52:05
  think
• 52:05
  that's one
• 52:06
  of the
• 52:09
  strong
• 52:11
  attributes
• 52:11
  that a
• 52:12
  leader can
• 52:12
  actually a
• 52:13
  sales
• 52:13
  leader can
• 52:13
  actually
• 52:14
  bring to
• 52:15
  this
• 52:15
  actually,
• 52:16
  is being
• 52:17
  able to
• 52:21
  help
• 52:22
  everybody
• 52:22
  learn from
• 52:23
  those kind
• 52:23
  of if
• 52:25
  something's
• 52:26
  gone wrong
• 52:26
  or some
• 52:26
  mistake
• 52:27
  has been
• 52:27
  made,
• 52:28
  because,
• 52:28
  again,
• 52:28
  you're,
• 52:29
  you know,
• 52:30
  if you're
• 52:30
  leading by
• 52:30
  example in
• 52:31
  that,
• 52:31
  you're not
• 52:32
  going to
• 52:32
  jump on
• 52:33
  somebody
• 52:33
  for for
• 52:34
  the
• 52:34
  mistake.
• 52:35
  You're
• 52:35
  going to
• 52:35
  use the
• 52:36
  opportunity
• 52:36
  to make
• 52:37
  sure that
• 52:37
  that
• 52:38
  lesson, if
• 52:39
  you like,
• 52:40
  is
• 52:40
  learned,
• 52:41
  but you
• 52:42
  can, you
• 52:43
  can
• 52:43
  discuss it
• 52:43
  and
• 52:43
  deliver it
• 52:44
  and debate
• 52:45
  it as a
• 52:46
  group
• 52:47
  without,
• 52:48
  again,
• 52:49
  without
• 52:49
  that
• 52:49
  individual
• 52:50
  being or
• 52:51
  feeling
• 52:52
  that
• 52:52
  they're
• 52:52
  being
• 52:55
  attacked
• 52:55
  about it
• 52:55
  or put
• 52:56
  down about
• 52:57
  it. So I
• 52:57
  think,
• 52:58
  yeah,
• 52:59
  that's a
• 52:59
  that's a
• 53:00
  great way
• 53:01
  of showing
• 53:02
  strong
• 53:02
  leadership
• 53:02
  in being
• 53:03
  able to
• 53:03
  take
• 53:03
  something
• 53:04
  like that
• 53:04
  and
• 53:04
  turning it
• 53:05
  into a
• 53:05
  positive
• 53:06
  Can you
• 53:06
  give me
• 53:07
  Mark Ackers: one
• 53:08
  of, if not
• 53:08
  the
• 53:08
  biggest
• 53:09
  failures
• 53:09
  you've had
• 53:09
  as a sales
• 53:10
  leader?
• 53:11
  Unknown: Again,
• 53:11
  names and
• 53:12
  things
• 53:13
  will have
• 53:13
  to remain
• 53:14
  out of
• 53:14
  this. But
• 53:17
  I think
• 53:17
  one of the
• 53:19
  one
• 53:19
  particular
• 53:19
  occasion I
• 53:20
  didn't I
• 53:21
  didn't
• 53:21
  check in
• 53:22
  enough
• 53:23
  around the
• 53:24
  direction
• 53:25
  of travel,
• 53:26
  the the
• 53:27
  team I the
• 53:29
  business,
• 53:29
  was going
• 53:30
  in. I made
• 53:31
  too many
• 53:32
  assumptions
• 53:32
  about the
• 53:34
  success we
• 53:35
  were
• 53:35
  having and
• 53:36
  how that
• 53:36
  success
• 53:37
  was being
• 53:38
  understood
• 53:39
  and
• 53:40
  received.
• 53:41
  And I
• 53:42
  didn't
• 53:42
  make
• 53:43
  enough
• 53:44
  checks
• 53:46
  with my
• 53:47
  own
• 53:47
  leadership.
• 53:48
  About Is
• 53:50
  that true?
• 53:51
  And going
• 53:51
  back to
• 53:52
  that
• 53:52
  conversation
• 53:53
  we had
• 53:53
  earlier
• 53:53
  about the
• 53:54
  individual
• 53:55
  contributor,
• 53:56
  in that
• 53:56
  way, it's
• 53:56
  that sort
• 53:58
  of need to
• 53:59
  sort of
• 54:00
  always be
• 54:00
  qualifying
• 54:02
  the deal
• 54:03
  you should
• 54:03
  always be,
• 54:04
  or you
• 54:04
  should
• 54:04
  constantly
• 54:05
  qualify
• 54:06
  what you
• 54:07
  think,
• 54:08
  what
• 54:08
  you're
• 54:09
  doing is
• 54:09
  what they
• 54:10
  think is
• 54:11
  the right
• 54:11
  thing as
• 54:11
  well. So,
• 54:13
  yeah, I
• 54:13
  made it, I
• 54:14
  made a
• 54:14
  mistake,
• 54:15
  and was
• 54:15
  too
• 54:15
  assumptive,
• 54:16
  and it was
• 54:18
  too late,
• 54:18
  probably
• 54:18
  to turn it
• 54:19
  around
• 54:19
  when I
• 54:20
  when I
• 54:20
  realized
• 54:20
  it, so
• 54:21
  what did?
• 54:21
  How was
• 54:22
  the
• 54:22
  fallout?
• 54:22
  We
• 54:23
  actually
• 54:23
  parted
• 54:23
  ways,
• 54:24
  right? It
• 54:25
  wasn't
• 54:26
  acrimonious
• 54:27
  in any
• 54:27
  way. It
• 54:27
  was. It
• 54:27
  was kind
• 54:28
  of more
• 54:28
  like, this
• 54:29
  is not,
• 54:31
  this is
• 54:31
  not
• 54:31
  working
• 54:32
  out as as
• 54:34
  we both
• 54:35
  expected,
• 54:36
  and that's
• 54:38
  actually,
• 54:38
  that's
• 54:38
  actually
• 54:39
  fine, but
• 54:40
  it it
• 54:40
  didn't
• 54:40
  need to
• 54:41
  get to
• 54:41
  that point
• 54:41
  if I had
• 54:42
  been and I
• 54:43
  take full
• 54:43
  responsibility
• 54:44
  for it,
• 54:44
  but if I'd
• 54:44
  have been
• 54:46
  more
• 54:46
  attentive,
• 54:47
  I think,
• 54:48
  to
• 54:48
  understanding
• 54:50
  the the
• 54:52
  receiving,
• 54:53
  of what
• 54:54
  was going
• 54:54
  on and
• 54:54
  what what
• 54:55
  I was
• 54:55
  doing and
• 54:55
  what the
• 54:56
  team were
• 54:56
  delivering,
• 54:56
  it
• 54:57
  probably
• 54:57
  wouldn't
• 54:58
  have got
• 54:58
  to that
• 54:58
  point.
• 54:59
  We'd have,
• 54:59
  we'd have
• 54:59
  worked. It
• 55:00
  out. So,
• 55:02
  you
• 55:02
  Mark Ackers: know,
• 55:03
  my bad for
• 55:04
  not
• 55:04
  actually
• 55:04
  making
• 55:05
  sure that
• 55:06
  we were
• 55:07
  being open
• 55:08
  and honest
• 55:08
  and
• 55:08
  discussing
• 55:09
  that, I
• 55:09
  think
• 55:10
  let's talk
• 55:10
  about so
• 55:11
  you've
• 55:11
  actually
• 55:11
  learned
• 55:12
  lessons
• 55:12
  there,
• 55:12
  right?
• 55:13
  Learn a
• 55:13
  lot of
• 55:13
  lessons. I
• 55:15
  think
• 55:15
  that's the
• 55:15
  thing.
• 55:16
  When
• 55:16
  you're, I
• 55:17
  mean, any
• 55:17
  first time
• 55:18
  role, but
• 55:19
  when
• 55:19
  you're a
• 55:19
  sales
• 55:20
  leader,
• 55:21
  and his
• 55:21
  first time
• 55:22
  in that
• 55:22
  role, in
• 55:22
  particular,
• 55:23
  you're
• 55:24
  going to
• 55:24
  learn a
• 55:25
  lot. How
• 55:25
  important
• 55:26
  is it when
• 55:26
  you're in
• 55:27
  a
• 55:27
  leadership
• 55:28
  role to
• 55:29
  have a
• 55:29
  coach,
• 55:30
  someone
• 55:30
  that has
• 55:31
  walked in
• 55:32
  those
• 55:32
  shoes
• 55:32
  before,
• 55:33
  had the
• 55:34
  success
• 55:34
  that you
• 55:35
  want to
• 55:35
  have. How
• 55:36
  important
• 55:37
  is it to
• 55:37
  have a
• 55:37
  coach that
• 55:37
  you can
• 55:38
  work with
• 55:39
  as a sales
• 55:39
  leader?
• 55:40
  Unknown: Vital
• 55:43
  Yeah,
• 55:44
  well, I
• 55:44
  would say
• 55:44
  that,
• 55:44
  wouldn't
• 55:45
  I, because
• 55:45
  we're on
• 55:45
  the My
• 55:46
  sales
• 55:46
  coach
• 55:47
  podcast.
• 55:48
  Thank you
• 55:48
  for
• 55:48
  coming.
• 55:49
  But no, I
• 55:51
  think
• 55:51
  coaching
• 55:52
  is is so
• 55:53
  important.
• 55:56
  And to use
• 55:57
  exactly
• 55:58
  your
• 55:58
  words,
• 55:58
  though,
• 55:58
  something
• 55:58
  that's
• 55:59
  been in
• 55:59
  your
• 55:59
  shoes,
• 56:00
  that's
• 56:00
  done it,
• 56:01
  and that's
• 56:01
  also
• 56:02
  actually
• 56:02
  kind of
• 56:03
  what I
• 56:03
  really
• 56:03
  enjoy from
• 56:04
  working
• 56:05
  with you
• 56:05
  guys as
• 56:06
  well,
• 56:06
  because
• 56:07
  you can
• 56:07
  see, I've
• 56:08
  seen
• 56:09
  people
• 56:10
  trip up
• 56:10
  and fail
• 56:13
  BEC,
• 56:14
  because
• 56:14
  they
• 56:14
  haven't
• 56:14
  got that
• 56:15
  access to
• 56:16
  somebody
• 56:17
  who's seen
• 56:18
  it and
• 56:19
  been
• 56:19
  there. And
• 56:21
  even if we
• 56:21
  can help a
• 56:22
  few people
• 56:23
  avoid some
• 56:23
  of those
• 56:24
  potholes,
• 56:24
  that's
• 56:25
  That's
• 56:25
  fantastic,
• 56:27
  and a
• 56:28
  coach is
• 56:30
  not there
• 56:30
  to make
• 56:32
  those
• 56:32
  decisions
• 56:33
  and tell
• 56:33
  you, it's
• 56:34
  not a
• 56:34
  you're not
• 56:35
  training
• 56:36
  I'm not
• 56:36
  training
• 56:36
  people to
• 56:37
  be a
• 56:37
  manager,
• 56:38
  but I'm
• 56:39
  I'm a
• 56:40
  sounding
• 56:40
  board. I
• 56:42
  try to
• 56:42
  help
• 56:42
  people,
• 56:43
  and people
• 56:43
  have been
• 56:44
  fantastic
• 56:44
  coaches to
• 56:45
  me over
• 56:45
  the years,
• 56:46
  where I've
• 56:47
  kind of
• 56:48
  listened
• 56:49
  to their
• 56:49
  experiences.
• 56:51
  And you
• 56:52
  take
• 56:52
  sounding
• 56:53
  boards
• 56:53
  from
• 56:53
  different
• 56:54
  people,
• 56:54
  it's not
• 56:54
  just one
• 56:55
  person.
• 56:55
  That's the
• 56:56
  other
• 56:56
  thing I
• 56:56
  would say
• 56:56
  on this,
• 56:58
  and you,
• 56:59
  you make
• 57:00
  your own
• 57:00
  mark, but
• 57:01
  you've
• 57:01
  taken that
• 57:02
  coaching
• 57:02
  advice
• 57:03
  from
• 57:03
  somebody
• 57:04
  that has
• 57:05
  lived it,
• 57:05
  that's
• 57:06
  that's
• 57:06
  been
• 57:06
  there, and
• 57:08
  I think
• 57:08
  that's
• 57:08
  absolutely
• 57:09
  vital.
• 57:10
  Mark Ackers: Let's
• 57:10
  imagine
• 57:11
  someone's
• 57:11
  listen to
• 57:12
  this
• 57:12
  podcast.
• 57:12
  They're
• 57:13
  either
• 57:13
  wanting to
• 57:14
  be or they
• 57:14
  are a
• 57:15
  sales lead
• 57:16
  first
• 57:16
  time, and
• 57:17
  they don't
• 57:17
  have a
• 57:18
  coach. And
• 57:19
  let's say
• 57:20
  it's
• 57:20
  because
• 57:21
  they they
• 57:21
  don't feel
• 57:22
  like they
• 57:23
  should, or
• 57:24
  they're
• 57:24
  not ready
• 57:25
  to, or
• 57:25
  that
• 57:26
  they're a
• 57:26
  little bit
• 57:26
  skeptical.
• 57:27
  But what
• 57:27
  would you
• 57:28
  what would
• 57:28
  your
• 57:28
  message
• 57:29
  be? I
• 57:29
  Unknown: think
• 57:29
  my message
• 57:30
  would be,
• 57:31
  you know,
• 57:32
  how? How
• 57:33
  do you
• 57:33
  expect to
• 57:35
  learn
• 57:36
  something,
• 57:38
  understand
• 57:38
  something,
• 57:39
  get to a
• 57:40
  point of
• 57:42
  success
• 57:43
  without
• 57:43
  actually
• 57:44
  having any
• 57:44
  advice and
• 57:45
  coaching
• 57:45
  on a on
• 57:46
  what
• 57:46
  you're
• 57:46
  doing. I
• 57:47
  mean, you
• 57:49
  wouldn't
• 57:49
  jump into
• 57:50
  a car
• 57:50
  after
• 57:50
  reading a
• 57:51
  book on
• 57:51
  how to
• 57:52
  drive
• 57:52
  cars. You
• 57:53
  you'd have
• 57:54
  a drive
• 57:54
  instructor.
• 57:56
  You
• 57:56
  wouldn't
• 57:58
  you
• 57:59
  wouldn't
• 57:59
  run out on
• 58:00
  the rugby
• 58:00
  field and
• 58:01
  start
• 58:01
  playing in
• 58:01
  a
• 58:01
  different
• 58:02
  position
• 58:04
  without
• 58:05
  actually
• 58:05
  having
• 58:06
  some
• 58:06
  coaching
• 58:06
  advice on
• 58:07
  how how to
• 58:08
  do that.
• 58:09
  So I
• 58:10
  think,
• 58:11
  yeah,
• 58:11
  it's, it's
• 58:13
  kind of if
• 58:14
  you're
• 58:15
  not, if
• 58:15
  you
• 58:15
  wouldn't
• 58:16
  do that,
• 58:16
  then
• 58:16
  you're not
• 58:17
  sure
• 58:18
  you've
• 58:18
  really
• 58:18
  understood
• 58:19
  the the
• 58:21
  requirements
• 58:22
  of moving
• 58:22
  into a
• 58:22
  different
• 58:23
  role. And
• 58:23
  I think
• 58:24
  that if
• 58:25
  you're, if
• 58:26
  you do
• 58:26
  that on
• 58:27
  your own,
• 58:27
  you've
• 58:28
  just put
• 58:28
  yourself
• 58:29
  into a
• 58:30
  much
• 58:30
  higher
• 58:31
  risk
• 58:31
  category.
• 58:32
  More sense
• 58:33
  well,
• 58:33
  because
• 58:33
  you,
• 58:33
  you've, if
• 58:35
  you, if
• 58:35
  you can
• 58:35
  work with
• 58:36
  somebody
• 58:36
  who's been
• 58:37
  there and
• 58:37
  done it,
• 58:38
  then
• 58:38
  you've got
• 58:39
  a you've
• 58:39
  got a
• 58:39
  reference
• 58:40
  point
• 58:40
  that's
• 58:40
  actually
• 58:41
  going to
• 58:41
  help you,
• 58:42
  if you're
• 58:43
  just going
• 58:43
  to do it
• 58:43
  off the
• 58:44
  off your
• 58:44
  own back,
• 58:45
  I just
• 58:46
  think
• 58:46
  that's
• 58:46
  more
• 58:47
  risky. You
• 58:48
  might be
• 58:49
  successful.
• 58:50
  You might
• 58:51
  be
• 58:51
  extremely
• 58:52
  observant.
• 58:53
  You might
• 58:54
  be able to
• 58:54
  consume
• 58:55
  all the
• 58:56
  how to be
• 58:57
  a manager
• 58:57
  books in a
• 58:58
  very
• 59:00
  valuable
• 59:01
  way. But I
• 59:02
  don't
• 59:03
  actually
• 59:03
  believe
• 59:03
  that. I
• 59:04
  think that
• 59:04
  you
• 59:04
  actually
• 59:05
  need
• 59:05
  somebody
• 59:06
  to have a
• 59:07
  two way
• 59:07
  conversation,
• 59:08
  understand
• 59:08
  the
• 59:08
  details
• 59:09
  and get
• 59:10
  under the
• 59:10
  covers of
• 59:11
  it, rather
• 59:11
  than just,
• 59:12
  you know,
• 59:13
  reading
• 59:13
  and
• 59:13
  observing
• 59:14
  love that
• 59:15
  Mark Ackers: Alan
• 59:15
  and I
• 59:16
  think,
• 59:16
  really
• 59:16
  well
• 59:17
  articulated.
• 59:19
  As we're
• 59:19
  getting
• 59:19
  close to
• 59:20
  the end, I
• 59:20
  want to
• 59:20
  talk about
• 59:21
  leadership
• 59:21
  Styles.
• 59:22
  Styles,
• 59:23
  right?
• 59:23
  Okay,
• 59:24
  there's
• 59:24
  different
• 59:24
  styles of
• 59:25
  of
• 59:26
  leadership.
• 59:27
  What
• 59:27
  advice
• 59:28
  would you
• 59:28
  give to a
• 59:30
  new sales
• 59:30
  leader
• 59:31
  trying to
• 59:32
  develop
• 59:32
  their own
• 59:32
  leadership
• 59:33
  style and
• 59:34
  find their
• 59:34
  own sort
• 59:35
  of voice?
• 59:35
  How should
• 59:36
  they go
• 59:36
  about
• 59:36
  doing
• 59:36
  that? I
• 59:37
  don't
• 59:37
  Unknown: want
• 59:38
  to trip up
• 59:38
  on that
• 59:39
  word that
• 59:40
  Springs
• 59:40
  immediately
• 59:41
  to mind,
• 59:41
  to go be
• 59:42
  authentic,
• 59:43
  because
• 59:43
  you got to
• 59:44
  be you,
• 59:45
  right? But
• 59:48
  also, like
• 59:48
  the the
• 59:51
  recent
• 59:51
  podcast
• 59:52
  with
• 59:53
  Benjamin
• 59:53
  as well,
• 59:53
  where he
• 59:55
  was kind
• 59:55
  of saying,
• 59:56
  you know,
• 59:57
  you know,
• 59:57
  pretend,
• 59:58
  fake it
• 59:58
  till you
• 59:58
  make it
• 59:59
  kind of
• 59:59
  thing as
• 59:59
  well.
• 1:00:00
  Well, I
• 1:00:00
  think
• 1:00:00
  you've got
• 1:00:01
  to unpack
• 1:00:03
  what
• 1:00:03
  you're
• 1:00:03
  trying to
• 1:00:04
  achieve.
• 1:00:04
  So you've
• 1:00:05
  got to,
• 1:00:05
  you've got
• 1:00:05
  to kind of
• 1:00:06
  look at
• 1:00:06
  the job in
• 1:00:09
  in a
• 1:00:10
  delivery
• 1:00:10
  sense,
• 1:00:11
  what are
• 1:00:11
  you going
• 1:00:11
  to
• 1:00:12
  deliver?
• 1:00:12
  How are
• 1:00:12
  you going
• 1:00:13
  to deliver
• 1:00:13
  it? I've
• 1:00:14
  been
• 1:00:14
  talking to
• 1:00:15
  a guy
• 1:00:16
  recently
• 1:00:16
  that's
• 1:00:17
  trying to
• 1:00:18
  put his
• 1:00:18
  own
• 1:00:19
  strategy
• 1:00:20
  together,
• 1:00:20
  and we've
• 1:00:21
  been
• 1:00:21
  talking
• 1:00:21
  about a
• 1:00:22
  strategy
• 1:00:22
  document
• 1:00:23
  that he
• 1:00:23
  wants to
• 1:00:24
  take to
• 1:00:25
  his exec
• 1:00:26
  and the
• 1:00:26
  board, and
• 1:00:29
  the
• 1:00:29
  strategy
• 1:00:30
  is taking
• 1:00:32
  some new
• 1:00:32
  products
• 1:00:33
  into a
• 1:00:33
  different
• 1:00:33
  market,
• 1:00:35
  and that's
• 1:00:35
  kind of
• 1:00:36
  the
• 1:00:36
  headline,
• 1:00:36
  but then
• 1:00:37
  it's okay,
• 1:00:38
  so how are
• 1:00:38
  you going
• 1:00:38
  to do
• 1:00:39
  that? Who
• 1:00:40
  you're
• 1:00:40
  going to
• 1:00:40
  do that
• 1:00:40
  with, who
• 1:00:42
  you're
• 1:00:42
  going to
• 1:00:43
  go after.
• 1:00:44
  What are
• 1:00:44
  the
• 1:00:44
  systems in
• 1:00:45
  place? Who
• 1:00:45
  are the
• 1:00:45
  people?
• 1:00:46
  What's the
• 1:00:46
  messaging?
• 1:00:47
  And so you
• 1:00:47
  gradually
• 1:00:48
  start
• 1:00:48
  filling,
• 1:00:49
  filling
• 1:00:49
  that out.
• 1:00:50
  And I
• 1:00:51
  think your
• 1:00:51
  style then
• 1:00:52
  comes from
• 1:00:53
  the fact
• 1:00:53
  that you
• 1:00:54
  understand
• 1:00:55
  what you
• 1:00:56
  can do
• 1:00:57
  well, in
• 1:00:57
  that where
• 1:00:58
  you need
• 1:00:58
  your own
• 1:00:59
  you own
• 1:01:00
  help, what
• 1:01:01
  might be
• 1:01:02
  the key
• 1:01:03
  determining
• 1:01:04
  factors to
• 1:01:04
  get that
• 1:01:05
  going? And
• 1:01:05
  then I
• 1:01:06
  think that
• 1:01:07
  actually
• 1:01:07
  then
• 1:01:07
  determines
• 1:01:08
  your own
• 1:01:09
  style that
• 1:01:09
  you'll go
• 1:01:10
  after. So
• 1:01:11
  I think if
• 1:01:12
  you look
• 1:01:12
  at it from
• 1:01:13
  a how
• 1:01:14
  you're
• 1:01:15
  going to
• 1:01:15
  deliver
• 1:01:16
  what the
• 1:01:18
  job
• 1:01:18
  requires,
• 1:01:19
  that will
• 1:01:19
  actually
• 1:01:20
  determine
• 1:01:20
  your
• 1:01:20
  strategy,
• 1:01:21
  when you
• 1:01:21
  understand
• 1:01:22
  how you're
• 1:01:22
  going to
• 1:01:22
  how you're
• 1:01:23
  going
• 1:01:23
  Mark Ackers: to
• 1:01:23
  deliver
• 1:01:24
  it. Alan,
• 1:01:24
  thank you
• 1:01:25
  so much
• 1:01:25
  for coming
• 1:01:25
  on. I've
• 1:01:26
  really
• 1:01:26
  enjoyed
• 1:01:27
  like just
• 1:01:27
  focusing
• 1:01:28
  on one
• 1:01:29
  subject,
• 1:01:29
  which is
• 1:01:30
  aspiring
• 1:01:31
  sales
• 1:01:31
  leaders,
• 1:01:32
  first time
• 1:01:32
  sales
• 1:01:33
  leaders,
• 1:01:33
  and on
• 1:01:34
  what that
• 1:01:34
  world
• 1:01:34
  looks
• 1:01:34
  like. I
• 1:01:35
  know, as I
• 1:01:36
  say, I
• 1:01:36
  know it's
• 1:01:37
  my words,
• 1:01:37
  but it's
• 1:01:38
  true. Just
• 1:01:38
  such a
• 1:01:38
  rich
• 1:01:39
  history
• 1:01:39
  and level
• 1:01:39
  of
• 1:01:40
  experience
• 1:01:40
  there. I
• 1:01:40
  think
• 1:01:41
  anyone
• 1:01:42
  listening
• 1:01:42
  to this is
• 1:01:42
  going to
• 1:01:43
  take a lot
• 1:01:43
  from this
• 1:01:44
  episode.
• 1:01:45
  How can
• 1:01:45
  people
• 1:01:46
  find more
• 1:01:47
  about you
• 1:01:48
  and follow
• 1:01:48
  you? Where
• 1:01:49
  can they
• 1:01:49
  find you?
• 1:01:50
  Unknown: Yeah,
• 1:01:51
  well, I
• 1:01:51
  should
• 1:01:52
  take some
• 1:01:52
  of my
• 1:01:52
  advice
• 1:01:53
  really
• 1:01:53
  about the
• 1:01:54
  website
• 1:01:55
  still not
• 1:01:55
  up for me.
• 1:01:57
  I kind of
• 1:01:58
  work under
• 1:01:58
  the radar
• 1:01:59
  a bit. But
• 1:02:01
  yeah, I'm
• 1:02:01
  on, I'm on
• 1:02:02
  LinkedIn.
• 1:02:02
  That's
• 1:02:02
  probably
• 1:02:03
  the
• 1:02:03
  easiest
• 1:02:03
  way to
• 1:02:04
  find me.
• 1:02:04
  There's,
• 1:02:06
  there's
• 1:02:07
  just my
• 1:02:07
  own
• 1:02:07
  profile,
• 1:02:08
  which is
• 1:02:08
  Alan
• 1:02:08
  Clark, and
• 1:02:09
  then
• 1:02:09
  there's an
• 1:02:09
  Allen
• 1:02:10
  Clark
• 1:02:10
  consulting
• 1:02:11
  profile.
• 1:02:12
  So yeah,
• 1:02:12
  you can
• 1:02:12
  just, you
• 1:02:13
  can find
• 1:02:13
  me on the
• 1:02:14
  on the
• 1:02:14
  LinkedIn
• 1:02:15
  or through
• 1:02:15
  you guys,
• 1:02:16
  because I
• 1:02:16
  do a lot
• 1:02:16
  of work
• 1:02:17
  with you
• 1:02:17
  guys now.
• 1:02:18
  So I
• 1:02:18
  Mark Ackers: was
• 1:02:18
  gonna say,
• 1:02:19
  If anyone
• 1:02:19
  wants to
• 1:02:20
  have some
• 1:02:20
  actual
• 1:02:21
  coaching
• 1:02:21
  from you.
• 1:02:21
  We can,
• 1:02:22
  can match
• 1:02:23
  them up
• 1:02:23
  and they
• 1:02:23
  can get
• 1:02:24
  coaching
• 1:02:24
  for you
• 1:02:25
  from my
• 1:02:25
  sales
• 1:02:26
  coach.
• 1:02:26
  Absolutely,
• 1:02:27
  absolutely
• 1:02:27
  Alan,
• 1:02:28
  thanks for
• 1:02:28
  coming in
• 1:02:29
  and great
• 1:02:29
  to have
• 1:02:29
  you in
• 1:02:30
  Newcastle.
• 1:02:30
  Thank you
• 1:02:30
  very much.
• 1:02:31
  Thank you.
• 1:02:31
  You.